Ep.8 The Checkered Resume

We trace Rodney’s winding path from boarding school to kitchens to music and business building, and we show how each detour quietly becomes a skill that pays off later. We also get real about ego, imposter syndrome, and mental health, and why taking stock of your own story can be a turning point. 
• Reframing a “checkered resume” as a connected skill stack 
• Growing up fast through boarding school independence and responsibility 
• Being labeled “full of potential” and learning to coast 
• Hitting disillusionment in university and rejecting the boxed-in path 
• Bullshitting a way into chef school and learning humility quickly 
• Work ethic, consistency, and razor-thin margins in the restaurant business 
• Customer-first thinking and the ego check that comes with service 
• Creativity as a need and vulnerability as the real cost of sharing it 
• Pivoting into music production with the right support at home 
• Applying restaurant and music lessons to entrepreneurship and operations at Wellshare 
• Living with self-criticism and practicing a higher-level perspective on progress 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Built this empire from the ground. Never backing down, never bound. Two hearts, one vision, we stay true. In the thick of it, in the Phipps of it 

Welcome to In the Phipps of It. I'm Natasha Phipps. And I'm Rodney Phipps. Welcome to our podcast. We're here to talk about life, love, our pursuit of authentic happiness. We are married, we work together, we're parents to two amazing kids, and we hope you enjoy the show 

All right. We are back. Back again. We're gonna talk about you this time. My turn. Yeah. The checkered resume. Your checkered resume, as you say. Yes, as I say. That's, Ro- Rodney says that. Yeah. Yes. It's, I, I think from, [00:01:00] and this could be my, just my own impostor syndrome or whatever, is that from the outside looking in, it can... 

If I was looking at me, I'd go, "Well, maybe this person's meandering. They're not really focusing on something- Mm-hmm ... 'cause they're moving from this to that." Now I, from the inside looking out, can draw a line that connect everything, and- Mm-hmm ... they've reinforced, each piece has reinforced the last one on it. 

And as a whole, I think it makes me better at all the things. But I can see the other side of that argument as well. Yeah. So, um To, to go sort of back to the beginning- Kind of where to start ... where to start is- Yeah ... is the good one. Um, so opposite to you, um, raised, born and raised in Calgary. Mm-hmm. Um, so a city kid. 

You're a small-town girl. Yes. I was a city kid. Um, and then I went to boarding school in high school. First question people ask there is like, "What'd you do?" Yeah, that's a big deal. "Why'd you- Going to boarding school ... why" Like, "What crime did you commit to get- Yeah ... packaged off" You get shipped away. Got shipped away. 

Um, and it, it absolutely wasn't that. It was a, a very good decision. Um, it was a great school, St. Michael's University School in- Mm-hmm ... in Victoria. Um, we just went back last year for the 25's- It's amazing. Yeah, beautiful. So [00:02:00] impressive. Um, a- and, and it just, for me at the time, based on the decisions that I had in front of me, relationships in, in Calgary, um, seeing the landscape, I just, I, and my sister had gone, so she knew it was a great school. 

Yeah. She had a great experience. Um, it just, it made sense. So- Mm-hmm ... um, for, for a number of reasons, um, went, um, but so since grade 10, I, you know, that was, um, a level of independence. That makes you grow pretty quick. Yeah. Like, grade 10, like, that's Aiden's age. Yeah. Aiden's going into grade 10 this year, so. 

I, yeah, I can't e- I- There's no way he can- There's no way ... probably survive, but, um, like, just, so ag- in grade 10, though, like, obviously you still have supervision and stuff. Yeah. But there is also a lot of independence that- A lot ... came kind of pretty quick. Yeah. And growing up really, like, to take- Yeah ... care of yourself in certain ways, right? 

Yeah, yeah, uh, yeah, in, in certain ways for sure. Um, and now I, and Calgary's an hour, well, at that time it was almost a two-hour flight- Yeah ... because you had that little tiny plane from- Yeah ... Victoria. But still, I was able to come home a couple times through, through the year for long weekends or, or whatnot, but, but you're still, there is a level of independence especially by the- Yeah 

time you're in grade 12 and you're given [00:03:00] more independence from the school, and you're, I was a prefect somehow. Um, and, uh, and so I was responsible for other kids- Yeah ... already, you know, supervising and checking people in- Mm-hmm ... and having relationships with the, with the teachers and, and, and what have you. 

And, um, and that was, so o- one of the first things that I was... Pieces of feedback, there was two competing pieces of feedback I got. Not competing, but, um, sort of set me on, on different understandings. Yeah. And one was, um, potential. So I w- I was told- Right ... I had all this potential. The, I, I'm sure the headmaster, I gave him fits, because when I did the entry exams and did all this stuff, it's like, "Okay, you got all the potential. 

You're gonna, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna do all these high marks and you're gonna do all this stuff." And- I learned that I could get away with doing less. That was the- Yeah ... the unfortunate lesson that I learned. Um- 'Cause it came pretty easy to you. Yes. Like, it's not like you had to kill yourself studying to get Bs. 

Yes. No, and, and I was v- I was fortunate, whatever, the way my brain works. Yeah. Um, I don't believe in a set edu- like, intelligence level. I think everybody has their own intelligence for different things. Mm-hmm. But for whatever my brain works, it [00:04:00] worked well in that format. Yeah. So I could... I didn't need to work too hard to get enough grades to, to, to do well. 

Mm-hmm. Um, but I didn't also then push myself to do as well as I could have. Yeah. So I wasn't necessarily meeting my potential. Um, but then the other thing that I learned that was great was, um, there was a, w- they had, in, in boarding school, they had these, uh, they were called house parents. Mm-hmm. Um, and there was one house parent, um, Nicole Pistack, and hi Nicole, I'm sure you'll be tuning in. 

Um, she had, uh, one of the house parents, and they had two, uh, young boys at the time. And I was in grade 12, so I, I'd babysit occasionally and hang out, and I brought my Star Wars toys out for them, and- ... and all this kind of stuff. And I was very unabashedly, uh, proud of my, you know, nerdum. Um, and she gave me this piece of, um, feedback, which was, "You have this ability to, to be cool, popular- Mm-hmm 

um, but you're also able to be smart and good, kind." Right. Um, and that was, especially in '99 or whatever that was, 2000, that wasn't necessarily the stereotype. It was like- That wasn't the cool thing to do ... if you're cool- Yeah ... you're gonna be an asshole. Yeah. You're gonna be a jerk, you're gonna be whatever. 

And I, [00:05:00] that sort of s- was, was a early strain of me wanting to- buck the trend- Mm. Perhaps that- Mm-hmm ... now we talked about, about these other things. Yeah. Um, but, but also then, okay, you have this potential, whatever. So you, I graduate, um, I got into Western, um, in London. Um, I was pre-accepted to go to the Richard Ivey School of Business, and I was gonna go get a law degree, and then I was gonna, you know, my, my first summer job was working at BD&P, a lo- a law office here in Calgary, and I had this trajectory. 

This was, this was the plan. Mm-hmm. Right? This is your potential. Um, and so I had that all lined up. I go, go to graduate and everybody's, you know, big graduation ceremony at a private school. Yeah. Boarding school. Coming out of high school. Yeah. Yeah. Coming out of high school, everyone's coming to you. You stand on stage, they give you your diploma, and they read out your accomplishments. 

And grade 12 I did pretty well. I had some great teachers that reinforced, were starting to bring more out of me- Mm-hmm ... and especially in, in writing and communicating. Um, and I was doing some university level courses and things like that. So I had a pretty good [00:06:00] level of, of entry into school. Right. But I did my Superman pose. 

So everybody just stands there and, you know, whatever, and I'm watching all these names and I go, "Fuck it, I'm gonna go and I'm, I'm gonna just put a little bit of me on this." And I did the Superman pose while they read it out, and the place starts laughing and the, you know, stops, looks over, just shakes his head and keeps going. 

I get off stage afterwards, my one friend John, sit down, he goes, "You're cocky, aren't you?" And I didn't even think of it that way. I was like, "I guess maybe that's one aspect of it." Um, and, and then I get off the stage, my drama teacher comes to me and he goes You're picking the wrong career. Yeah. And, and that was... 

So okay, I've got this potential, I've got this thing, but the art, you know, the arts- Creative side, the- ... the creative side- Yeah ... person, the feedback is going, "You're going the wrong direction." And I, and- Yeah ... y- and I, I know he was meaning well, and I, I... It stuck with me, so teachers out there, like, those are, those- Those things stick 

those moments matter. Yeah. Um, but that was this disjointed sort of, you know, um, [00:07:00] piece. And my first seeds of depression, which would eventually roll into bipolar w- were, were seeded there. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I go to university. But I went just with a plan of what made sense. My sister was an actor. You know, two actors in the house, gotta be serious. 

You know- Right ... I'm gonna go be a business person. Yeah. Or a lawyer. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get, you know, do corporate law and have a really smart, safe career. And then second year university, skating by, and I get this paper in this great, um, European literature course that I was l- I, I was loving the course, but I'm getting graded by a TA. 

Mm. And I hand in this... The, the, the, the professor goes, "Okay, we want independent thought. Independent thought. I want your own perspective." Yeah. So I write this paper. I'm passionate about it. I handed in. And she goes, "Well, the, the professor never covered any of these things, so you get a 65." 65, right. And I remember going, "What the fuck- Yeah 

is this?" And now being back, going back to school now, which is interesting, telling the story to my professor, [00:08:00] and him just shaking his head. Right. Just livid that this was the, the experience that I had. Anyways, I just sat there- But she just wanted you to repeat whatever you had learned in school basically- Yeah. 

Yes ... and put a little twist on it. Yeah. Yes. Just regurgitate. And- Not actually have independent thought. Yeah. And then you add that to the look left to you or look to the right of you, one of the view is not gonna be here at the end. You know? Oh, yeah, I remember that in university. Yeah. This failure speech that they would give. 

And, and, and seeing the r- the, the business school being the first step of business, taking the business class, seeing this formulaic, you know, learning business plans and doing economics and the fundamentals- Yeah ... and all these things, and just seeing it as being putting everybody into a box, and this is the regurgitation machine, and, and very corporate. 

Yeah. Being arrogant and, uh- Creative ... cocky and creative. Uh, and, and, you know, I, I was 17 when I went to university, so I was still fairly young. Um- Just going, "I c- I can't. I, I, I can't do this." And I was in the kitchen making food for my roommates, I go, "What if I could do anything?" This story came, this- Yeah 

you pushed me later. What do I like doing? Yeah. What if I could do anything? Well, I love to cook. I [00:09:00] love p- all my friends already knew I- when I'd go make my lunch, it would take me 20 minutes to make my lunch instead of- Yeah ... a few seconds, you know, the sauces and m- I'd already learned to make certain things, and salad dressings, and little things like that. 

And there was a chef school, um, 45 minutes away, Stratford. Mm-hmm. Stratford Chef School. Um, and so I said, "You know what? I want to be a chef." My Uncle John, um, another huge influence in my life. Right, yeah. Incredible chef, incredible human. Um, I love, I love him, I love what he does. Um, I love to cook. Um, probably part of me is like, "I'm not supposed to be doing this." 

Like, there's probably a rebellious part of it, there's probably, um, things to unpack there, but I'm like, "I'm gonna go be a chef." Um, and the school takes about 35, 40 kids every year, they get about 400 applicants. Yeah. You're supposed to have experience cooking. Very competitive to get in, yeah. You know, competitive to get in, and you're supposed to have experience. 

Like, they're not, it's like a finishing school. Yeah. It's not like you're just a, any Joe Blow- Basic, yeah ... off the street. Um, so I bullshitted my way in. I got a job at a Mexican restaurant in Downtown Calgary. I was a bouncer, a janitor, a, an electrician. I got electrocuted. Uh, you know, I, I, I... It was wild [00:10:00] two months, and then I bullshitted the entry and, but really quickly I learned shut your mouth. 

I said, "Sorry, Chef," a lot. Yeah. "Yes, Chef," a bunch. What you're told. Do what you're told. Don't complain. And yeah, shut up and listen. And I, the benefit of not having any experience was that I was an open book. Right. So a lot of chefs that were going in there had to, like, relearn things- Right ... bad habits and, and whatever. 

Get rid of the bad habits. Whereas I was kind of a, a fresh, you know, open book. Um, and that's where I met Karim, uh, Belmoufid, who's, uh, the owner, operator of Longview Steakhouse- Mm ... along with one of my closer, closest friends, and just an amazing chef, amazing human. Whole family are incredible. But he was, like, the top of the class, and then I was this guy that could barely hold a knife properly. 

And over the two years we were there, we became really close. Um, I learned a lot from him, I learned a lot from the school. Um, and at the end of the two years, they'd offer a few kids a job. Right. And, um, I got offered a job probably because of Karim, if we're being honest. But, um, I was learning to cook. 

Yeah. Um, and, [00:11:00] and I turned it down once again. Mm-hmm. Arrogance of youth, and I wanted to have a summer, and I wanted- So did that for a little bit, and then Karim gives me a call at the end of that summer and he goes, "Rodney, I'm opening a restaurant in Montreal." Yeah. "I'm only asking you once." Mm-hmm. "I want to open up this place. 

Come work for me. I'm not ca- I'm not asking you again." Yeah. Like, this is a one-time shot. And I'm sure Karim's g- uh, love to have... If I could convince him to come in for an episode, that would be unreal. Oh, that'd be amazing. But the odds of that are, um, not high, but Karim. Um, and so then I moved to Montreal. 

Um, lived upstairs in the restaurant for the first, I dunno, six months or so. Um, maybe not that long. It, maybe it felt like that. Few months, yeah. Um, but at least a few months. Lived upstairs. Um, we'd be open Tuesday to Sunday. Mondays I'd go get ingredients. Um, and learnt a ton. Just learnt a ton from Karim, from their family, um, from the business. 

Um, and, uh, some days were better than others. Um, but it was a great experience. And then I, I, I got a place just down the street from there- Mm-hmm ... and, and lived there and worked there and put some time in. And that's when, um- Yeah, the time we met. Yeah ... that's when we, [00:12:00] yeah, yeah, we, when we met and, uh, re-met or started dating or whatever you'd want to call it. 

And, um, and through that, uh, as I said in other things, we, um, my parents, um, my mom especially had, had started me off with, with some real estate. Yeah. And, you know, I'd, I'd done some work kind of property managing. I remember being younger and, you know, trying to collect rent from a tenant in Collingwood- Mm-hmm 

and dealing with some stuff there. And then, um, had some real estate that was kind of at the back of this, and then trying to decide what did I want to do next, and did I want to g- you know, get into a restaurant? Did we... You know. And then us dating was a big pivot point- Yeah ... because I wanted, uh, I wanted to throw all the chips in that basket. 

In terms of the time at the restaurant, what would you say is like what you learned from that experience, it was like what you wanted to take from it in a positive way, and what you didn't want from it? Like, what, what would you say those like two things would be? Well, that's a very good question. Uh, the positive is the work ethic- Yeah 

just the doing shit. Um- Yeah ... uh, [00:13:00] Karim is, uh, one of the best work ethics I've ever seen, and I know I can work. I know I can buckle down- Mm ... and do the, the, the, the hard stuff. Um, but he made me look like a lazy sack of shit. Like, um, and, and his, his brothers and sister and, and, and parents, um, just unreal. Um, so that, uh, the creativity, like being able to cook was- Yeah 

what now in hindsight I could see it was like my creative adjacent thing. Mm-hmm. It was a business. It was a real business. Did you know it was creative at the time? Like did you- No ... assign creativity with cooking at the time? No. No. Okay. This is in hindsight- Yeah ... for sure. Um, I, maybe a little bit 'cause I love to create dish. 

I love to create plates and- Yeah, but you wouldn't have said that, you know, it was like verbalize, right? No, this was me- Yeah ... using my creative. I've played instruments since I was four- Yeah ... , and music was a , huge part of my life, and creativity was always this thing. I wanted to write, do all these things, but I kept it behind , this part of me. 

This wall, yeah. So cooking was like creativity adjacent, and I could create plates, but it was still a business. Uh-huh. It was still a, you know- Yeah ... you do this thing, you sell it, you move on. And, and Karim was awesome. He would let me be the, um, sort of the garde-manger and I, I'd do the, uh, amuse-bouches every day, and he'd [00:14:00] give me some ingredients and be like, "Come up with something." 

And I'd be like, "All right, scale it back. You're getting a little too crazy," or whatever. Yeah, that's fun. Um, but he, he knew to feed that part of me, right? That part of you, yeah. And he knew to give me... that I needed that thing. Um- That's a good leader to see that in you ... yeah,. Great, leader. 

Mm-hmm. Um, and but the part that I'd struggled with was the opposite of that, which is a truly smart and, um, great restaurant has consistency- Mm-hmm ... um, and has reliability, and you need food costing, and all these kind of details that when you're doing it, um, especially in that, uh, , you're... there's not as much creativity often. 

Now, maybe later on when you get- Yeah ... these like really small whatever, where there's like constantly coming up with new menus and new dishes and things like that- Yeah ... sure, but especially your first restaurant, you're not gonna be just- No ... going off the, off the cuff. The success is in those operational details- Yes 

which are very- And consistency- ... consistent ... and quality and- ... monotonous kind of- ... and if you're changing your menu every day, it's very, very hard to have- Right ... a small team that's able to do that consistently. Yeah, yeah. So having to repeat it, you know, the cooks versus the chefs thing. I have- Yeah. Um, I'm, you know, there's a whole... 

I won't go into that debate, but, um- Where I loved was the [00:15:00] creativity and building something new all the time, and what I struggled with was, the monotony. Yeah. Um, and that's the part of the restaurant business that they don't talk about, um, on shows or- Mm-hmm ... you know, the rockstar chef. And this was at the early days of the rockstar chef. 

I was a huge fan of Anthony Bourdain. Mm-hmm. And y- we were starting to get... The Cooking Network was starting to have these, like, rockstar chefs or whatever. Now, you know, if this was now, I probably would have started my own, YouTube series or something. Yeah, there's different ways to- Where you could do d- there's different ways- 

have a career, yeah ... to do it. Um, and there's a few great ones out there, and there's a lot of garbage. But- It was the start of art adjacent. Mm. Um, but I was learning principles around it's a pennies business. Yeah. It is, um, the margins are tiny. It's about the client first and foremost. Now, you can come into the kitchen and complain about someone that says they can't stand cardamom, and yet the, the dessert they ate was all cardamom. 

Like, that was the main flavor. And- Right ... y- like, we had this, uh, Crim- Customer's always right ... Karim designed this trio of creme brulees- ... and he'd play with the different flavors. And so you'd be able to see coming back which one [00:16:00] they ate and which one they didn't. And- Right ... and they would say, "Oh, I can't stand this flavor," and yet that would be the one that was licked clean. 

And then the one that they didn't touch was the flavor, you know. So there was this misunderstanding- Right ... or, or- Yeah ... you know,, the cliche asking for ketchup or whatever. But you learn very quickly, whatever that person's paying for, that's what they like. Yeah. That's what they get. It's a customer business. 

All of these things are customer businesses, whatever they are. This, and this brings up, like, creativity with ego- Yes ... and, like, how it, when you're creating something, music, food, whatever, there's a vulnerability with putting it out. Yep. And then there's an ego that, ego check that could come back good or bad. 

Yes. Yes. And when we get into the relationship episodes- Yeah ... I can talk a lot more about vulnerability. Mm-hmm. But at this time in my life, that is not something I was exploring- Yeah ... and I was not comfortable with. Um, I had- No ... a very clear shield around. So, um, I had to learn that, once again, like art adjacent, vulnerability adjacent. 

Yeah. So I was able to put it that way. But you did have to learn that, you did have to learn that, like, the customer is okay. Yes. Uh, you'd have, you [00:17:00] had to learn that part, right? Yeah. Yes. It was like- And , I wasn't great at it at first. At first, yeah. Um, but that's why I was in the kitchen. Um- They want salt. 

They want whatever. They get salt. Yeah. It's kind like you can roll your eyes and fine. If you wanna fucking burn your steak- Yeah ... and turn it into a coal- ... that's your business. It's your money. Yeah. Um, and, and you smile and nod, and at the end of the day, um, and Crim and his family do this so fucking good still- Yeah 

is that people go there, they feel like they've been going there their whole life. Yeah. I mean, it's over a year wait list to get into the restaurant right now. It's a special experience. And I don't see anyone coming out there going like, "Oh, that wasn't worth the wait," or, "That wasn't- Yeah ... you know." They have a, the, the, the pressure of that on them is unreal now that it'd have to match the expectations. 

Yeah. But it's, they, they, they put the people that come in there first. Mm. That's a common thread. Whatever these businesses that we're dealing with- Yeah ... whether it's real estate sal- sales, it's music, whatever, they're, they're understanding the customer, understanding the customers and the- Mm-hmm 

understanding the customer's need, and then being very, very smart with money. Yeah. Understanding- It's just decimal. Like, it's just- Mm ... the margin of error in that business is so small. Yeah. What is it that, uh, the stat people throw out? Like, 85% of [00:18:00] bus- restaurants close within the first- Mm-hmm ... two years. 

Yeah. Um, and there's a whole variety of reasons why. But how much of that, though, is e- ego sometimes on the chef or the business- Oh, most ... or not wanting to listen to what the customer wants? Yes, most. 'Cause, like, technically you can be right. Yeah. Technically- Technically, yeah ... a steak should be cooked like this. 

Yep. But technically the customer doesn't like it like that. Yes, exactly. You know? Technically it doesn't fucking matter. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. So it's just- Oh, ego kills it all the time ... I wanna highlight this point- Yeah ... because I think this was a big shift for you- Yep ... like, in, like, how you- Huge 

think about things. Yep, huge. Um, like, this is how it's supposed to be or- Yeah ... should be, but that's not necessarily how- No ... someone might want it. And this is a tran- this also translated really well into the music space because- Yeah ... it's a very s- it's even more ego now- Yeah ... when you go to the music space, right? 

Um, and if you don't, uh, like, the ego is the k- is a killer. It's an absolute killer. It blinds you to what you're doing. It blinds you to- Yeah ... who's receiving what you're doing, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so I had to learn that quickly because I was very adamant about certain things. I was adamant I didn't like country music, for example. 

I was adamant that food had to be done a certain way. A certain way. But now- Yeah ... in hindsight and then with experience and just [00:19:00] understanding a bit more, is you see the best chefs are the simplest, often. Yeah. The best musicians, the best riffs, the most memorable pieces are the most simple. Simple. Mm-hmm. 

They just thread the needle perfectly., They maximize each note and its place, and they take away the noise, and it's the same with a, a brilliant plate of food. It's about the ingredient first, and then, and it's taking away the, the excess- Mm-hmm ... and just presenting it in the best possible way. 

Um, , I have a term that I use all the time now, which is angry good, and it can be food- Angry good, yeah ... it can be music, it can be relationships, it can be whatever, but it's when something is so fucking good it makes me angry because there's no way you'll be able to duplicate that experience again. 

Mm-hmm. And with food- Like the first time of something, yeah ... the first time of something- Yeah ... when you have a perfect bite, and it's so good it makes you angry, 'cause even the next time it could be just as technically good- Yeah ... but it won't be the same 'cause you'll be anticipating it. You'll know what's gonna be coming. 

It's a different experience. It's experiencing. Yeah. The time and place has changed. Yeah. So those moments, that's what you can produce. Mm-hmm. That's what made me excited about food- Yeah , and entertainment, and the experience side of things. Um, but then [00:20:00] once again, real estate was the backbone. Mm-hmm. 

I would never get into the restaurant business without owning the land. No. That's something that- Yeah ... grandma's, the family have done very well. Yes. Yeah. Make sure you own the land. Offset some of the risk. Mm-hmm. Check your ego. There you go. Yeah. Those are some, some things that you start. So then we move, back to, we're moving back to Calgary. 

Um, and it's a shift. Um, you know, spent a few years in the Okanagan doing a lot of cooking, a lot of private events- Mm ... wine parties, different things. Looking at possibly opening a restaurant there and- We almost opened a restaurant in Mexico, and that's a whole episode. We'll leave that one- Yeah ... for another episode, but that was how close we were to splitting our time. 

And then when it came to moving back to Calgary, um, and I give you all the credit in the world, I don't think... I, I think this is a great relationship moment. Um, partners out there, have these check-ins- Mm-hmm ... because we were sitting around the fire, I remember clear as day, I'll never forget it. You said, "If you could do anything in the world, anything at all, what would you do?" 

Yeah. Just scrap what you're supposed to do, scrap thoughts, hopes, whatever. What would you do?, And it was music. Mm-hmm. And it always been music. [00:21:00] Like I said, I played m- instruments since I was young. Um, obviously acting, performing, art was all part of it. Yeah. Writing. These are all sort of ed- things, but music has been my other language. 

Mm-hmm. It's what's helped me with depression And a lot of mental health moments. It was now even more vulnerable adjacent. Yeah. Um, you know, slowly moving down that side. Um, and you found a, a school in Calgary, uh, , engineering and producing school called APRA, two-year program, and within the first day or two, it was like a light bulb had gone off. 

Yeah, you were a new person. Yeah, yeah. Um, I remember the first day you came home from, like, your first class,, you were just,, pumped- Yes ... and excited- Yeah ... and around the right people, and that's the kind of stuff that, like- Yeah ... you know? And I would never have had that moment- Like, you like 

if it wasn't for your support and you- Yeah ... finding it for me and encouraging me to take that chance. And that's a big shift. Now people were like, "What the hell are you doing?" You know, there was a lot of that. Like, "What if... You're a chef. You're not a..." And but there's a lot of skills that cross-pollinated. 

Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of coverage, entertainment space, energy main space. So there's a lot of coverage that [00:22:00] went across. Um, but that started it and, and that was a big eye-opener, and now it was even closer to I will never, uh, not... Uh, I'll never be able to go in a restaurant without still kind of going, like, you know, getting a bit of the siren call. 

Yeah. There's still a bit of that. Well, it might still come. And it may be will, you know, um, um, at some point. Yeah. Um, but the music business was something else. It was, like, a bit more of my soul, for sure. Yeah. Um, and a bit more of the vulnerability, it was a language that I had spoken since I was young, and, um, so much thanks to my mom for, encouraging me, ensuring that I played my violin. 

Yeah. I played piano. I played trombone. I played percussion. Um, a, very tiny bit of guitar. Um, I was in choirs and stuff when I was younger, and, um, she made sure I practiced, and that was the language I learned. I can't speak French. Yeah. I can start a fight in maybe 10 languages- ... and swear in them, but I can't speak another language, but I can speak music- Yeah 

and that was where that really took off. Yeah. Um, launched Famous, ran into an artist, Kalsey Kulyk, while I was there. Mm. Came home, [00:23:00] said, "Starting a label, we're moving, and we got a kid on the way," all within six months. And- I don't think it was six months, but yeah, it was like, it was, it's- Yeah, maybe not even six months 

it's combining your skills together toward a, you, new- Yeah ..., a new goal, let's say, but it was very applicable in terms- Yes ... of your business experience- Yeah ... your, um, creativity and your... And I think you have an incredible talent of seeing a big picture. Thank you. Um, uh, I get stuck in the weeds and the details, and things and, uh, which is why we complement each other really well because you think- Really big and, um, but then, but then- And then you can get stuck in the big picture. 

You can get stuck in the big picture,, but you also can see the pieces that you need to get there, in people- Yeah ... and who might those right pieces be. Um, and that's something I think you're exceptionally good at, and so this was a good- Well, thank you ... foray into that. Thank you. And I- it's probably a skill that doesn't, you're not ever necessarily gonna get the recognition for. 

Um, and that's part of- Until someone calls you and goes, "Hey, Rodney, I really need someone, I need someone to help me with this." Yeah. "I need this," and then you know the person. [00:24:00] Yeah. You have the relationship because you're an excellent relationship builder over a long period of time. And then it's like, "Oh, well- Yeah. 

Then some of those things- ... you solved the problem now" ... and, and I looked at it long-term. So Phaymis was a long-term plan. Yeah. Um, it's now more artist development management than- Mm-hmm ... a traditional label, although it still exists in that capacity. Yeah. Um, I w- was lucky to do business development work for music and music-adjacent tech startups and different things like that as well as part of that, that, that space. 

But a lot of what came from the restaurant space came to that. Yeah. The client, you're selling, um, even more of someone's ego and someone's- Yeah ... heart and their hopes and their dreams, but you're still selling something. Mm-hmm. You need to understand who's listening. It's an even, um, smaller transaction on everything. 

Mm-hmm. The business is changing and shifting, and once again, in my arrogance, I thi- I don't think there's anything that I can't figure out that people are doing right now because it's shifting so quickly. Yeah. I didn't have the relationships. I probably still don't have the relationships I should, but I have the hope and the passion for taking what is someone's art and turning, hopefully helping them [00:25:00] turn it into a business in whatever way I can. 

Mm-hmm. And then understanding how I can help and understanding how I can't, and I've not worked with way more artists than I've worked with for that reason. Yeah. Um, energy, passion, whatever. Um, but that was the next piece. Um, and then, you know, the music business, the entertainment business, the restaurants, these teach you about neighborhoods and, like, areas and- Mm-hmm 

understanding, um, trends and communication and the power of youth and all these other things, um, that fit into when we e- eventually got around to launching WealthShare. I'd spent a lot of time with lawyers and contracts and understanding those things. Mm-hmm. And some of my old education came through, and the operations, like you're- Yeah 

talking about, how to put all the pieces together. Um, and then being part of our own investments, we built, um, infills, with your dad- Mm-hmm ... um, for a couple years when Aiden was small, and that was around the same time I was going to school for Phaymis with, a- and launching Phaymis, um, and learnt a lot there. 

Um, and, and so all these sort of pieces put together- Yeah helped me, I believe, be good on the operations side [00:26:00] of, uh, what we do with WealthShare. Yeah. So, you know, the joke is kind of try to make the headaches go away and- Yeah ... understanding top to bottom what's going on with the company. Mm-hmm. Um, spending a lot of time with legal side of things. 

Um- Yeah, and now fitting that in with our day-to-day. Um, Phaymis is still going. Mm-hmm. And it's as... A passion and it motivates me and keeps me going, and I'm constantly looking at artists and different projects and... But WealthShare is a, um- It's an aggregate of all the things that I've learned from these other- Yeah 

pieces. Um, and it's the first thing we've been able to do officially together. Officially together. Yeah. Yeah. And real estate has been the backbone of the things that allow us to take these risks- Yes ... l- like to go to school for two years. Yeah. So like, it was because we had our real estate portfolio. 

Absolutely. So that's the cool thing about that too. Yeah, and that's the thing where, we go, "Okay, well maybe we should have refinanced instead of sell," or whatever. Yeah. It's like, okay, sure. There was things that we could've done. Yeah. We could have still done that and made, different decisions there, but- Yeah 

um, the effect was it allowed us to take these- Mm-hmm ... these chances- Yeah ... and to deal with these things. I think it'd be fun to do an episode where you tell some like stories from the music business, kind of like, I, I think [00:27:00] how- How does a song get to radio?, How does this actually happen? 

Yeah. 'Cause you have a lot of cool stories, and you've been in a lot of interesting rooms with very awesome people. Yeah. Um, and I think that's something people would be probably very interested to hear. I know I love hearing those stories. Yeah. Um, just like how does it come to be where one day it's just on the radio? 

Yeah. You know, and how many people did not get to that point? Yeah, and that's- And what makes a difference? Yeah. And all of those stories translate to- Yeah ... business. Yeah, and, that's, like you said, a full episode there. Yes. Um, there's so much great art out there and so many great artists that have not been heard and likely will never be heard, and that's a tough- That's the, like, sad-, tough part about it ... that's a sad thing to even hear. , Yeah. And I'm not even a writer, like how much amazing things are made that we never get to hear about. Yeah, and- That's just the reality of it ... and what you're hearing now in the zeitgeist or whatever is it's attention-based commodity. Yeah. 

All about attention. Mm-hmm. And that's, in the music business, that's the big thing is getting attention to get people to stop and listen. I used to say to Kalsey all the time- Yeah ... "I just need people to stop and listen. When they stop and listen, they're gonna get it." They like it. They're gonna get it. 

Exactly, yeah. You just gotta get 'em to stop and listen. Yeah. Um, and, uh, she's [00:28:00] gone on to sign with Universal, uh, Canada and doing amazing things, and that's great. Um, and that proved the concept. Mm-hmm. And it's another thing is, like, I might be crazy, but I'm also right. Yeah, you were right. Yeah. 

Yeah. Absolutely. So anyway, I think that'd be fun. That's the thing. It's a good idea. Yeah, and, that's sort of the, the long and short, um, answer to a short question. Um, but, I think importantly for me now going back in the, whatever you'd wanna call it, the imposter syndrome where I keep um, questioning myself, am I moving, am I shifting too much? 

I've come a lot more to understand that it's made me better at the things I do- Mm-hmm ... rather than, um- It builds your skill set, right? Yes. And the way the world is going, that's gonna be- Yeah ... even more so. We don't know how it's gonna look in 10 years in terms of what's gonna be, available and how jobs will be created, how money will be made, but those skills will always be relevant- Yeah 

no matter the industry. Yeah. So.,, It's a changing world, and it's- Yeah ..., it's... And, it's important to have the passion to do what you're doing. Yeah. Es- especially if you're gonna be an entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. You have to find the passion. Um, and you've been amazing at helping me find it. 

Mm-hmm. Encouraging me to find it. [00:29:00] Yeah. Um, and the last thing I'll say to that point is, like, , as, um, cocky as I maybe come across occasionally, um, there's no one that's ever been as hard on me as myself. Mm-hmm. Um, that's the one upside of, of bipolar is you get to look at yourself in the mirror on a daily basis- Mm-hmm 

and be very, very hard on who you are, what you are, and what you're doing. Um, and so- But you're too hard on yourself, yeah ... being, yeah, being able to communicate and talk through that and look at it and start looking at it from a 10,000-point view and going- Right ... "This is what I've done. There's been mistakes, and there's been errors, and I could've been better at this. 

I could've," whatever, but being able to take stock and go like, "That's- Mm-hmm ... that's okay. That's-" Made me better at who I am Yeah And that's what I hope to carry on. Well said. Very well said. And with that See you next time. See you. 

Built this empire from the ground. Never backing [00:30:00] down, never bow. Two hearts, one vision. We stay true.