Calling vs. Career: How to Discern Your Next Step | Missy Tuft

Navigating career decisions isn’t always clear, especially when faith, purpose, and real-life challenges intersect. This conversation explores what it looks like to discern your next step while being a Christian in the workplace, whether you’re facing a difficult environment, feeling stuck, or sensing a deeper calling. Through honest stories and practical wisdom, we unpack how to recognize when it’s time to stay, grow, or move on, all while finding your purpose in God and trusting His direction in every season.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hi, Missy. Nice to see you again. Hey Jen, great to be here with you. Thank you. We are recording this after lunch. I just I found a new place in Houston I like. What is it? Green fork. Have you eaten a green fork?

SPEAKER_03 0:16

I have not. And if you have gone off your beaten path for a new place, I am very interested.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Well, it's actually pretty close to the current beaten path because it's real close to here. But um, it's gluten-free and organic. And most of the stuff's dairy-free too. And so it's I'm I'm gluten-free and dairy-free. And it's really nice to find a restaurant where you can just, you don't have to like look at all the labels. You just know everything you grab is going to be gluten-free.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Do you remember a few weeks ago when you called a restaurant and you were like, hey, is this gluten-free? And they said yes. Oh my gosh. And then you looked it up and you ate it, and it was not gluten-free.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

And it was not gluten-free. And then I called back in the and um I asked to speak to a manager, and I didn't get anyone in trouble or anything, but it's really important for those of you in the restaurant industry to make sure you know ingredients because we do have people that cannot eat certain ingredients. Absolutely. That was that could have been very tragic. Could have been.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

This is this podcast is brought to you by the Gluten Free Association of We love the Gluten Free Association, but even more than the Gluten Free Association, Jin, I love your necklace. Oh, thank you, Missy. It is a beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Is that a pearl? It is. And it was a Christmas present from my boyfriend. Um, but actually, Missy bringing up the pearl. So the topic that we're going to talk about today is how to know when to leave a job. And just something I was thinking about when you brought up the pearl is um there's do you know the verse in the Bible? I don't know where it is, but it's do not cast, I think it's in Matthew actually. It might be Matthew 11. Do I get a prize if it's Matthew 11? I don't know. I don't know eye dresses very well of scripture. Um, do not cast your pearls before swine. So my boyfriend picked this out for me, but the the what I really liked about it is that when I wear it, it reminds me I have such intrinsic value as we all do. And you don't want to cast your pearls before swine. So that means don't give the best of yourself to someone that's not going to appreciate it. So, and I think that the topic for today, how to know when to leave your employment, is a really big one. I know I've dealt with it quite a few times in my career. I'm sure you have too. Um, so I think we've got a lot of really good material to cover today.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Absolutely. And and leaving a job, it can be for great reasons. Um, and it could be for really difficult situations. But even the great reasons, there's still a reason for why you're ready to move to the next thing. Whether that's just you've hit all your goals and you're ready to move on. Um, or there's just some moving in you of just knowing, like, hey, I've outgrown this place. And it's that's not a bad thing, but it's it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Well, something that we get the privilege of talking about on this podcast is the way that God works in our lives. And I feel like with leaving a place of employment, sometimes you'll just feel a prompting from the Holy Spirit. And part of what I've learned is is it just, is it my human desire to leave, or do I really feel this is a prompting from the Holy Spirit that I need to leave for either my mental health or to get to someplace that's even better? So I don't know, Missy, if if you've experienced it, but can you talk to us about times in your life or maybe a specific time when you really did feel maybe, maybe where you worked right before Vanderblemen?

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Yeah, that was really interesting because I had seen writing on the wall, but I loved where I was so much. My friends were there, I went to church there. It was just the community that is the ideal dream for working, right? Um, and months prior, I started seeing writing of the wall, and you know that things are not going to change. Like you want to be the one person that's gonna go in and make a difference. But when something has been established for so long and you think that it can change overnight, but really it's systemic and it it takes a long time to turn to turn a cruise ship, you know? Um, and so unfortunately for me, I just kept pushing all those signs down, all the promptings from the Lord, pushing it, pushing it until the Lord was just like, okay, if you're not gonna do it, I'm gonna do it for you. And that taught me a lot about sitting with the Lord in those moments where you're starting to feel untethered.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Um, and trying to figure out can this, can I be retethered here? Or am I being untethered for a reason?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

What would you say was either the critical point um in the job or in your mind where you kind of knew I just can't do it anymore? It's it's causing more harm and pain than good by staying at that job.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

I think how conversations went after I talked about potentially leaving. Okay. Um, just the way that conversations happen in silos instead of coming all around the table to have a discussion, that was a huge red flag because I started wondering why is it that you'll have a conversation with this person together behind a closed door, and then this person together behind a closed door. I'm the topic of both conversations, but I'm not in the room giving truth to what's going on and to why I'm wanting to leave and what I want to work through in order to stay.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I think a lot of um phrases are thrown out these days and they're probably over dramatic, you know, like the toxic, like toxicity or toxic work culture. So I think that might be overblowing it, but it sounds like what you're saying is that the environment wasn't healthy, the communication was not happening in a productive fashion.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Absolutely. If you are not able to be a part of the discussions of your offboarding um and the ways of which your skills and and your, especially within a church setting, the way that your family, because your family is a part of your ministry calling, right? The way that your family, the way that your heart is shepherded through that, if it's not done with immense um integrity and transparency, then it's absolutely not the right place for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

If you had to, let's say you were teleported back to that time and space. Maybe teleport's not the right word. We'll ask our Trekkies. I mean, that could be pretty fun, though. It could be. What would you do differently? So, what would you do differently? What would you do sooner? What would you do later? Um, how would you handle it differently? What did you learn basically?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

I love that question. I've thought about it probably every other day for the last three years. I think about that all the time because it was such a pivotal trauma. It was such a pivotal moment in my career, but also in my life and my character development and who I am as a leader, who I am as a friend. I mean, so much went into that. And I would say that now I would have immediately upon seeing any writing of the wall, I would have raised the flag of conversation. This is what I'm seeing, and this is what I'm predicting, just to get ahead of the it's like putting air into a balloon, and you see the balloon expanding and expanding and expanding, and you know if it continues to expand, physics tells us it's going to pop, right? Um, that's kind of what happened. I didn't get ahead of that. And I wish that I would have raised the flag, raised the awareness, said my projection. And then based off of that, I would have been like, okay, this is reconcilable, or I'm just gonna go ahead and part ways so I can keep the relationship. Because that's another thing that I think that sometimes younger generations and even my generation, even millennials with the whole obsession with boundaries, um, they forget that you never know where someone's gonna be in their career a year, two years, five years from now. Relationships are are more important than burning the bridge unless it is a completely toxic relationship. So I think had I left earlier, there would have been some more salvageable relationships.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Sounds like you started going down the relationship or the environment started going down the wrong track. And you're saying once it started, you could still get it back on track. But once you let it kind of go so far, you're really nowhere near the track, and it takes a lot more time and energy, and it might not even be possible once it's gotten that bad. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

People's emotions are so high, they're exhausted by the conversation. Um they're just they're done with it, you're done with it. And so it just turns into an unhealthy, arguable situation.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

One of my favorite pieces of advice I was given years ago, um, you probably know it, Missy, but whenever you're going through a situation like that, talk to yourself like you would talk to your best friend. So so many of us are very hard on ourselves. Like, Jen, you should have handled this better. Missy, you should have done this differently. You know, you were saying that you think about it quite often. But if you talk to yourself like your best friend, like if you were telling me, how would you, how would you give the advice to your friend? It helps you be more soft, more sympathetic, and more supportive. So as your friend, Missy, I think you handled that situation the best way that you could have. And God got you where you're supposed to be, which is right here. And if that hadn't happened, you might still have been in an environment that wasn't the right environment for you.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Absolutely. Jen, I've actually not heard that before. Oh, you haven't? No. Oh. Um, to talk to you like your knowledge please friend. Yes, absolutely. But what, like over this last year, you have been just an incredible, like corporate big sister. Just the way that you have developed me and poured into me and just even these conversations. Like, yes, this is a podcast, but really it's like our friendship is just growing and it's really neat. So thanks for that advice. I've never heard of it before.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Well, put it in your back box. You can use it. And Missy, over the course of the last year that we've been working together, I really have seen you develop a lot in um in a lot of different ways. And you're an amazing woman. You were then, but I feel like you're a more refined amazing woman. Oh, thank you. Thank you. So, do you want to ask me about any of my situations, about how I knew it was time to leave?

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Yes. So you come from a very well-known company, um, worldwide, international, incredible organization. Um, and then you came here and you moved across the country and you were in New York City, and then you come to good old Houston, Texas, which I'm seventh generation Texan. I love again. I am everything is better in Texas. Um, but that is a huge move. How in the world did you what did that look like for you? And how did you know that it was time to leave?

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Well, I'm gonna talk to you about two different situations. So, one situation I did not know that it was time to leave, and I kept trying to hold on, trying to hold on, trying to hold on. And God eventually shut the door. He I was walking out, he shut the door, pushed me right on out. If you don't make the decision that God is prompting you to, God will help you make that decision, even if it's not pleasant, to get you to where you're supposed to go. So I got one example of that. But when I was at Lush, it was an amazing place to work for, like, just absolutely wonderful. Wonderful. I was there for 10 years, it was really great. And at the end of my time there, I was still really enjoying myself. I was still liking every single day. Like I used to tell my friends that if I ever said I don't like my job, pinch me because I've got the perfect job. But I really felt this stirring inside me that God was telling me that He thought I should launch my own company. Oh, wow. And I think I've talked about this on the podcast before, but so I won't go into too much detail. But I really felt God telling me to do that. So I got up the gumption. It took me quite a long time to get the courage up to do it, and I resigned to start my own company.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

So you okay, I don't think that I realized that you left a salaried role that I loved. That you loved to take a not yet like profitable, your complete startup, and you just did that.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Correct. Okay. So if the teleporter is not being in use by you and I use the teleporter and I go back, I'm not gonna do the same thing I did. Okay. If I went, if I had to go back in time, I would have stayed there being really happy. But I knew that God wanted me to take this step and it was really scary, and I'm proud of myself for taking this step. Um, and God provided, you know, we can all the the story through both of our lives is that even when we go through something difficult, God will provide. He is always there. And you know about the thy word is a light unto my path. William tells about how in the old days, did you did you hear William tell you this story about the I vaguely remember it. It's like the lights on the front of their um boots or something like that. And it only shows a little bit ahead. So you don't see, and that's why I'm saying teleporter. Um, if I went back, I wouldn't do it again. But seeing what I saw and really trusting God, I did take that leap of faith.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

And then what you experienced and went through in that role, isn't that what landed you here as true. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

And everything I'm just this, I'm gonna keep quoting Bible verses, but um, God really does make beauty out of ashes and he uses everything. Like I could recount every single thing in that story that God redeemed or used later in my life. And yes, I wouldn't have gotten hired at Mandar Bullen if I hadn't had that entrepreneurial experience because the way that the company is run is it's it's very entrepreneurial. And William, the owner, saw that in me. And that was one of the things that that kind of separated me out from the other candidates for the COO role.

unknown 12:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Wow. So but that was me trusting God in that situation. But in another situation, I was really, I was in a position, I was um consulting temporarily as a chief operating officer for a company, and the company was run absolutely horribly when I got there. And we were fixing it up, fixing it up. But the the owner had some, I guess, some mental health challenges. And I could see it kind of reminds me of what you were talking about at your previous place of employment that you could kind of see the writing on the wall. But I really thought I was the one that could make the difference. And something, another piece of advice that I've been given, and I it hurt at the time I didn't like the piece of advice, is are you being prideful? So in this situation where you think no one else could change this, but you think you're the one that can change it, I kind of feel two ways about that because maybe sometimes God does have you as the ester in the situation where you can change it. But then there's also situations where you're you you can't change it. Right. So in this situation, I was trying to change something that really was probably not going to be able to be changed. And in that situation, God literally, I'm not even exaggerating with the use of the word literally, literally the door hit me on the way out to push me out. Wow. And it and then it was only like a month or so after that that then I got the job at Vanderblumen. So this was a consulting position in between Lush and Vanderblumen.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

And there's a lot that you can take from that experience here. Oh, 100%. Which is 100% because there's things here working with so many different clients, working with so different per many different personalities, and there are things that that aren't changeable, but they can be flexible by how you pursue it, and you have excelled in that here because of well, thank you, Missy.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Thank you for saying that. Yvette and I were talking this morning, and we were talking about how the younger generation really expects things to be pretty black and white and pretty stable a lot of times in their in their new careers. So they're expecting things to go pretty much like this. When in reality, every single job and career goes up and down like the waves of an ocean. And the more resilient and flexible that you are, the happier that you're gonna be and the more successful that you're gonna be. So you've got to be able to ride those waves. And that's again where faith comes in place, because if we trust the Lord, we know the Lord is gonna be the Lord on the top of the wave and down in the bottom of the wave as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

That's really good wisdom right there. Because it does, it's it ebbs and flows continuously. So kind of going back to how do you know when it is the right time to leave a job? We've talked about uh tensions, feeling untethered, just some tuggings. Uh, what about just feeling? What about thought? What about what you're experiencing when you go to work or conversations uh for growth? Let's talk about a little bit more of um how does that transition start?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

There's probably there's probably three categories. So it's probably either your job is horrible and you really feel like you really feel like you need to leave. Or maybe you're just apathetic. Like maybe you're just kind of ambivalent, oh, it's kind of good, it's kind of bad, you know, we're just kind of in the middle. Or there's situations where things are going really well, but to take your next career step, you need to leave. So I think if you think about those three different categories, each each of those different categories that you're in, there would be a different reason or a different way that you would know how to leave. Yep, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

That's true. So let's talk about things are going, which one do you enter first? Things go really well. Okay, things are going really well.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, that's a that's like what was happening at Lush. Like the company was growing. I was doing really great there. I really enjoyed it, but I felt this prompting. So I think, do you think that's it's harder to leave when things are going well, or do you think it's harder to leave when things are going badly and you don't want to leave the people behind? This is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

This is a really good question. Yeah. Um, because I struggle with leaving when things are hard. Um, because one, I don't want to leave my team in a bad situation. Um, but then also I want to see it turn. Like it feels messy to me and untidy to leave when things are and that could just be your own lived personal experiences, right? So this is where the sociology comes into play in your past traumas or experiences of when is the right time to leave. This is this is a very full we're moving into a very philosophical conversation right here.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I think that's fine because the women tuning in are gonna be running into each of these three buckets. So I guess on the things are not going really well, probably you need to think about other options. Something that always helps, never fails, is if things are going really not great at a job and you've tried to do certain things, you've tried to reach out to your boss, you've maybe reached out to someone higher than your boss, like you've taken steps to try to rectify the situation. Something that never fails to make a person feel better is if you apply for other jobs. So you really can't go wrong by doing that, and it kind of takes back your sense of empowerment. So if things are not going really well and I'm applying for other jobs, I I have found good ex good um good results from that. So things aren't going so well. Let me just throw my resume out here. And a couple different things can come of that. One is your confidence can be built by the fact that wow, look, I'm able to apply for these jobs. I'm not stuck. Exactly. It gives you the feeling of hope, right? And then maybe you get a job offer. Now, this is something that is probably important for us to talk about. Let's say you do that and let's say you get a job offer. At that point, I know my thought on this, but I want to know your thought on this. Yeah, I love this. Do you then go to your boss and say, I've gotten another job offer?

SPEAKER_03 18:57

I think it depends, right? I think um two things. One, you have to be prepared for that moment to be your final moment. Um, and you have to be prepared for your boss, even if you, even if you think that your boss is someone, because they still probably are someone that um has your best interest. Um, but also that boss is still, we get this mixed up sometimes. The that boss is still loyal first to the company, right? Um, and so if they're they know more than you do, they can see behind the curtain. And if finances aren't doing well, if they're trying to hire for another role and they need money and a different line item, there's a bunch of facets that could have nothing to do with you, but the fact that, hey, this person already has a job offer. Hey, great. I'm so glad you go ahead and accept that and let's just have this be your notice. You've got to be prepared for that, right? And it's it's not that they, it's not that they don't still have your best interest, but there is another level that's higher than you, right? And then the the next thing is is um you've got to be prepared for them to say, congratulations, but we don't have, we love you, we value you, we could grow you um with experience, we can pour into you more, but we don't have any more money to give you, right? So you have to be ready to make that decision, which that could also help your boost of confidence, you know. Um, or they could offer you more money, right? And then they could counter, and then now you're stuck with I have this new opportunity, or I have the same opportunity with more money, which leads to a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I always say this um doing this, you can do it once in each place of employment. Okay. You cannot do this, you cannot pull this stunt, basically, more than once. It is a stunt. It it really is a stunt. It's a stunt. It is. So you can do it once. And if you do it once, it can be very effective. If you indeed actually have another job in hand, this has happened to me before where I had a job in hand, and you have to be able to, Missy, you said it really wisely that the the owner or your boss knows more than you. You have to be willing to take the gamble. So you're only gonna take that gamble if actually this other job might be something that holds interest for you.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Because I was in a position where I was offered another position and I thought, actually, I think I would like to try this. And so then I talked to my boss about it, and he then countered, and I was able to be given more responsibility and a higher salary, and I decided to stay. So, but it could have easily gone the opposite way. So it's a gamble, and I think the most important thing in deciding whether or not to do that gamble is to follow peace. So, do you have peace in your heart that you want to talk to your boss about it? Right. If if you have 100% peace that that new job is the right job for you, then don't even have the conversation and then just put in your notice. Absolutely. But you can also use it as a negotiation tactic. This is for advanced negotiators. And it, in my experience, it has worked out. But you also have to be sure that you're a top performing employee in order to. Do that. If you're if you're not meeting your metrics, if you're on a performance improvement plan, if there's been negative feedback, then that's not the time that you want to take that gamble. Oh, absolutely not. Yep. No. And then that middle category. So just things are kind of apathetic. What are your thoughts on that? How do you know when you should leave a job if things are just kind of going ho hum down the street?

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Uh, I think zoom out. Zoom out and evaluate your whole life at that moment. Like, am I apathetic just in my job? Or do I need to take some PTO and just kind of reconnect with myself and my family or my friends? Um, apathy is something that just kind of infiltrates all areas of your life and you don't really know it until you know it. Um, so I think if you notice that you're feeling apathetic in your job or you're kind of indifferent, if someone's like, How's your job? And you're just like, you know, it's a job. Um, zoom out and be like, how's my home life? How's how are my friendships? How's my spiritual life? Um, and I think that would be really telling. And at the end of that kind of introspective work, you would know, okay, do I like my job? Or maybe should I just put some feelers out there and see what's out there that does spark some interest.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah. I think that's a really good point, Missy. And I think sometimes you and I are both three Enneagrams. So we're both drivers, like, you know, we try to always be working on things, always be improving things. But there are some periods in your life where you don't have to work on everything. And I'm trying to learn that about myself. But maybe if you're in a season of apathy at your career, maybe you were in a season of growth and development in other areas. So maybe you're getting what you need in the other areas from that growth and development. And maybe it's okay for your time at work to be kind of going ho-hum. Um, so I don't always think that that's necessarily a red flag if things are kind of going medium, but I would encourage you at that point to find something in your job that does really bring you joy or a new opportunity, like this for me. I I love recording these episodes. And this is something that's kind of injecting a new, a new spark and a new joy into my work life. So see if there's something that you can do with what you've got that can try to help get you out of that apathy before looking for other jobs.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

That's also a great point. We lot recently launched a optimization team this last year, which really brought excitement to some of the team members of their what does their daily role look like, and should revealed a lot of gifts for them and showed the company some gifts that these people have and moved them into different capacities with some new responsibilities and it's been rejuvenating.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

There's always a tension between so much change and not enough change, but uh any healthy business again has those waves and there's always times to try new things. So if you're feeling apathetic, you might want to try something new. Absolutely. And then if things are going really well, well, then I guess that can really only be God. If you're really loving your job and it's going really well, but you're still feeling that prompting, then you just have to trust that the Lord has something better for you out there.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

That is so that is so true. I sometimes think about this image of holding that teddy bear behind your back, and it's a small teddy bear, and then you have uh Jesus standing in front of you, and behind his back is a massive teddy bear. And the the writing above the picture says, just trust me. But this little girl is like not wanting to give up her little teddy bear. Um, and and I often think about that because that was my experience with adopting, right? I had this picture of my family that I wanted so badly, and that plays into the same thing with jobs when things are going really well. Lord, how can this get any better? Right. But you said it so well, like he has the next best thing for you, right? That he's growing you and he wants to give you all the abundance of all of your gifts. And so to be open to receiving those things is so much better than being closed fisted with something that you really like.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Well, then maybe that's the maybe that's the tip for the listeners is to stand with your hands open, right? So we're giving everything to God. And if this is God's best for me right now, I'm gonna stay there. And if God has something better, I'm standing open-handed and I'm open to it. And just don't, I would just say like be very receptive, be very open. And in these times of discernment, like spend time in prayer, spend time worship music, meditation, like really just get quiet and still with yourself. The more outside influences that you have, the harder it's gonna be to tune in, like tune the radio. You've got to get the right radio station to hear what the Lord has for you. And if you've got so many other distractions, it's gonna be really hard.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

So I think that's a great thing to talk about for our part two is who do you bring into your circle of trust and decision making when you are considering leaving a role or making a decision of staying versus going? Um, or when you're feeling like maybe the Lord has something more for you. But speaking of being open-handed, I know that we have a uh listener question from was it uh Stacy? Stacy from Indianapolis. All right, here comes Alex with the question.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Hopefully Stacy's not stumping us.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Here we go. This is the question. Okay. I told my boss that I was looking for other jobs, and now they are offering me more money to stay. Should I take the offer or leave? So we kind of started talking about this a little bit, um, but I definitely think that we could go deeper. So, what are your thoughts? Okay, I have a lot of thoughts about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

So, um, first of all, well done to you for talking to your boss about it, Stacy, and well done to your boss for basically saying you're a valuable employee and we want to do whatever we can to keep you. Sounds like you are not on a pip, Stacey. Yeah, not on a performance improvement. You are not on a performance improvement. That's correct. So I would say this. Okay, if you actually like the job okay and you're in that middle middle zone where you're just kind of feeling apathetic, I would say you give it another try. I would say you take the money and you try to make the best of the situation and you do what Missy and I were talking about a few minutes ago, where you see if there's a way that you can bring something into your daily job that you actually enjoy. Because that extra money is gonna allow you to also do some things more outside of work. That's true. So I would say if you're on that middle ground, I think you take it. I think you take it. Also realize when you make a deal like that, your character is on the line. So if you say, I uh yes, I will do this and I will stay for another year, then you do want to you wanna follow through and stay for another year and be a woman of your word. Right. I would say if you're on that first bucket though, where it's a toxic work environment, it is not refreshing to you, it is not nourishing, and maybe you're trying to be a martyr and save something that can't be saved, then I think you really need to, I think you really need to move on. That would be my decision. I would say if it's something that if it's a job that you can make your daily life be okay, take the deal. If it's still gonna be a miserable day-to-day life experience, then I think you don't take it. It's my opinion. What do you think, miss?

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Well, I I love what you just said. I was sitting here thinking, like, whoa, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have given that advice. But now that I've heard you say that, I was like, no, actually, I think I might give that advice. Um, I would also say, are you being valued? Is that why you wanted to leave in the first place? Because that's not going to change, right? That's not something that's going to change. How they're um seeing you, um, unless you just flip a switch or something, something changes an immediate, you're not gonna feel what you're wanting to feel immediately, right? Because now they know, okay, she's our there is a level of trust that has just shifted. Whether it's fair or unfair, we're humans. And so we know at that point, okay, this person went and looked for another job and they came asking for more money. There's gonna be a time of hurdle. It's just normal and natural. It's not good, it's not bad, right? So if you're someone who needs to feel a value and feel something quickly and experience something quickly, don't do it because then it's going to build resentment for you and the boss. Um, and you're not gonna be happy, right? It's not $10,000 is not going to alleviate the dissonance that you're feeling.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Well, I think that's a good point. Um, keep in mind that this person might be being treated poorly or might not be being valued. Stacy, this person, Stacy, hello, Stacy. Um, maybe, maybe they're not being valued. And to Missy's point, even if you get an extra $10,000, if you're still not going to be valued at work, your day-to-day is not going to be improved by the extra $10,000. Right. So, what is the $10,000 actually doing for you? Well, let's say that, let's say Stacy wants a swimming pool and $10,000 is the amount of a very small swimming pool. So it's about a foot massage kind of pool. What if Stacy wants a foot massage chair? Okay. Then then maybe she takes the deal, uh-huh, gets the foot massage chair, and that's what she has, you know, that's the extra work that she's put in is worth that. But in terms of a long-term strategy, this is another one where where we talked about before, like you can do this once. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

You can do this once. So, Stacey, I would even say if you just want the foot massager chair for $10,000, I would say, um, I want 30 days to show XYZ, and then I want a $10,000 bonus. Right? I would approach it almost as a bonus negotiation versus a raise. Thank you, Missy.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

That's that's convoluting Stacy's question a little bit. I think my bottom line answer, Stacey, after thinking about this and hearing what Missy and I both have to say about it, I think you take it. Yeah. Unless things are really bad, I think you take it. I agree. And will you please check in with us in six months and let us know how it I know?

SPEAKER_03 31:49

I'm really excited. Can we? I want to talk more about that with you. Yeah. Thanks, Missy. This was fun. It was it was this was really fun. Thank you so much for just your wisdom. And like I said earlier, you genuinely are top-notch corporate big sister for me. So thank you. Thank you, Missy. The pleasure was all mine. We'll see you next time. See you next time.