Your Job Is Not Your Identity | Kamia Morris

Your job was never meant to carry the weight of your identity. In this conversation, we unpack what happens when career, expectations, and performance start to define who we are, and how to step back into a healthier, more grounded perspective. Through honest reflection and real-life experiences, this episode explores the tension between ambition and alignment, the impact of cultural pressures, and the importance of creating space to rediscover what truly matters. It’s a timely reminder that your work is one part of your story, not the whole of it. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Vanderblumen Ladies Leadership Podcast, where we help Christian women grow in confidence, calling, and leadership. If you want to excel in your career while staying true to your faith, you're in the right place. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Vanderblumen Ladies Leadership Podcast. We're so excited to have you here. And I'm joined once again by my excellent friend Camille Morris. And as a reminder, Camille is one of our senior executive search recruiters, and she's been with us for about two and a half years. So, Camille, thank you so much for joining. This topic is another exciting one. I think you and I got the best topics. It's your job is not your identity. And before the podcast, we were talking a little bit and you were like, this is so needed. And tell us why you think this is needed right now, this topic.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah, so vulnerable moment. Um, you know, very driven individual. Yeah. First person on my dad's side of the family to graduate from college. So there were already just some plans that my parents had in place for me, not in a, you know, laying down the hammer type of way, but just really encouragement and seats sewn a lot throughout my journey. So once I graduated from college, I knew like you need to go get your master's. That's just the plan. Wow. When to do that. So then once I got my first like big corporate job and realized maybe in our last episode, we talked about just values and misalignment there. Yeah, it was challenging for me to step away once I realized that because of a type of identity that I attach to my role.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yeah, of course, and expectations actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Expectations, absolutely. So it's just I've since then really just been on a journey to encourage others on how they can separate the two. How your job is one part of you. It doesn't define who you are as a whole person. Um, and really it's more about the mission and how you're aligned with the value of the work that you do outside of just having a title.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

I like to go to India. Um, I actually like to go to a really fancy spa in India. So I'm not necessarily like you did, like yeah, hit the street in India. Um, but something that I recognize every time I go there is other cultures don't necessarily associate their job with who they are and their value. They basically have their value, they're a person, and then yeah, maybe they do this during the day. But it's not a core part of who they are who they are. I feel like in the United States, we really I grew up really attaching value to career, kind of the same way that you were raised. And then once you kind of think that your value is defined by your career, it's really hard then to separate the identity because I've known many people who, if they've lost their job and then they're like, well, this is what I did. I was an engineer or I was an accountant. Now who want who am I without the job? Yeah. Yeah. So, Camille, at what point in your life did you realize your job and your identity were not the same? Or have you realized that yet?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I for sure have. Okay. Um, I think it's a process that's ongoing for sure. Um, but I I think right after COVID, COVID put a lot of things into perspective for people once you saw the world shift in such a drastic way. So it gave you space and time to think and really reevaluate things in a different way. I've always said my dream is to go and lead worship and sing all over the world, or you know what I mean, really work at a church or have a job at a church. Right. And so that meant that what I've been doing for all these years was very misaligned with what my core values were. Because I think what I thought my dream job was either wouldn't pay well, or um, it just isn't looked at as honorable, maybe as other roles, as opposed to taking the time to ask the Lord, ask people around me, how can I still do what I enjoy, but you know, actually do it for in a in a role that I value?

SPEAKER_02 3:59

We're so we're so much luckier now than than women were 100 or 200 years ago, because at that time a woman could be a mom, like a wife, a nurse. I I don't know what else they could be, but the the maybe a teacher. Yeah, maybe a teacher or a nurse or a wife, but the options were so limited. And now we almost are paralyzed that we have because with so many choices, I could do anything, which is super exhilarating and super exciting, but it also, with the abundance of choice, also gives us so many opportunities to make the wrong step that we think might be the wrong career.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, yeah. And then also this push to like climb the ladder in an organization, which that may not be the goal for everyone. I think you you feel like you failed or you settled if you're not in the top, if you're not working towards the top role in the organization. But we talked about too, just really gaining energy from stuff outside of work as well as in work. Well, sometimes you need to create that margin and capacity based on the work that you do, right? Because those top levels and positions and companies don't have as much margin for things like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

That's 100% true, Camille. You were talking about COVID, and I think COVID showed us the fragility of life and how quick, like how quick you could be here one day and gone the next day. So why would you spend your life doing so many things that you don't enjoy doing? Right. And you know, the often quoted phrase is do you work to live or do you live to work? And I think a lot of people live to work. Is that the right one? Like the one where you're working so you're working so much that you don't have a lot of time to live. And I've come to that point in my life many times where I'm like, okay, I'm doing well in my career, but I'm not doing well as Jennifer. Like from the outside, it'd be like, oh wow, you're, you know, you've climbed the corporate ladder, you're financially successful, but in my heart, I'm not happy and I'm not living the life that I believe is God's best life for me. But with all those high expectations, it's really hard to then take a step back and figure out who I am, especially with no margin to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

You go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

No, well, so John Piper, a few and probably around the same time, he said that at the end of every year, he basically writes an obituary.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

So taking what you've done in the past year, if today was your last day, would you be okay with it? Wow. And then I I would my answer would have been no. Right. Because there are just certain things that I want to be included in my legacy for my kids or my family. So I started to just gradually shift. We talked about that too, just like micro shifts, areas that I focused on. So I'm actually not spending so much time in an area that I don't really love or have passion for.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Something that I'm very um proud of you about and very impressed with you about is that you have continued in your time here, you've continued to make sure that you are doing things outside of work that give you life and that energize you. You are doing such a good job. For those of you that don't know, Camille is an excellent singer and a wonderful worship leader, and her sister is a really good singer too. Shout out, Camille's sister. Um, but Camille does such a great job of being an excellent employee while she's here, and then also serving the church in a whole different capacity outside of here. And tell me what you think about this, but I feel like your identity is not one or the other. No. The identity is this complex thing where you're wearing all these different hats. And I like to talk about a tapestry analogy, but like the tapestry of Camilla all weaves together to make this beautiful image. And if you were just pulling one string, you don't get the full Camiya at all. Yeah. So your job is just the one string in the tapestry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Um, scripture says everything we do in word and deed do it to the glory and honor of God. But we like to make a hierarchy of what things are more valuable, what things bring God more glory. But you typing up a report brings God glory. You serving out a soup kitchen brings God glory. So it's really, I think we have to take out the human or culture lens and know that like Christian culture is just upside down, and that's where we get our value from. That things are out of order. We're we're we're out of order in our mind and we need to align it with what the word says is valuable.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

I just want to sit at your feet and hear you say more about this. Like, there's not even I'm gonna I'm like, say more. There's I know there's not more to say. There's not more to say is more to say.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Because I, I mean, this is something that I've thought about for so long. Right. There's even a book that I started to read during that time talked about the ruthless elimination of hurry. Yeah. And how I needed to like just really slow down my life and looking at what Jesus and his life and how he felt like what he counted as valuable. He had a job, he was a carpenter, but he wasn't like climbing the ladder. He wasn't trying to be like the top carpenter in the county.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

As far as we know.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

And I'm not saying anything is wrong with that, but sometimes we get so laser focused and the thing that we think defines us. And so it's really, I think, taking a step back at am I doing this because I'm passionate about this work? Because I think this is gonna help people or make influence, or is it pride because I want to have this title, and I think people will honor me or value me more because of the work that I do.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

You mentioned slowing down. It's basically like slowing down to speed up because when you're so, so overwhelmed and you don't have any margin or any time to slow down, you probably wouldn't have been able to figure out that big um illumination that you had came from COVID when everything slowed down. And you had the time and space to be like, this isn't what I would want my obituary to say. And I haven't lived this part of my life that I feel like is probably pretty darn important. And if we don't take that time to step back and kind of observe, I don't think I also think um, you know, the still small voice, like when God talks to us, it's not necessarily gonna be knock over the head. And if it's at the point where God's knocking us over the head, it means we've missed like four or five messages along the way that were less unpleasant. Right. But you've got to be able to take that time to listen to what the Lord has for you. And if you're just when is how is God supposed to find time in your schedules? God's gonna like put a half an hour to give you a message. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

And so during that time, you bring up another memory. I had a series of people very close to me pass away. So I had to take some time off from work, and that actually gave time for my brain to breathe. Yes. And this is like a little tangent, but we are supposed to take Sabbath and we don't. We don't. Sabbath would give us that time to rest and kind of re-evaluate and let our minds actually think. But we're just we're busy, we're busy.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

No, we should do community. We should do like a month of living biblically, something like that, where we like step away for a month and I'm sure William would pay us, and then we like try to do all the biblical stuff like exactly right, and then see if that see how that affects our life. Okay. Yeah. It's like the date. Have you ever done the Daniel Fest? Yes, I have. Oh, you have? Did how'd you how'd you feel like that worked?

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Oh, I loved it. Oh, wow. That was awesome. Yeah, yeah. It's just it it's a reset. It's a time for and really it just helps you uh prior. It's like a reminder. It's something that's habit stacking, real time.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Yeah, habit stacking. I can I can do a catchphrase too. I say this one a lot, but um, we are human beings, not human doings. And so if we're always doing everything, we don't have that time to sit in you know the holiness and actually just be and figure out what God's wanting us to do next. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Oh, so you said be, and I know it's small, but I think we have to remember that who we are is is enough. And I know it's such a common thing that people say, but like the value you bring to your organization, the value you bring to your family. Yep, it's an we don't have to do more to be more valuable. And I think we're in this culture that like however long the resume is, is what brings you value. But it's like, no, you already have the value inside of you. You already have the worth inside of you.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

I have gone through so many in in my past broken relationships where I was trying to be a certain person and do more to earn the love of someone. And thinking back to what you said, God loves us the way that we are, and he didn't create us and be like, okay, one day, you know, Jen will be who I want her to be. No, he created me and this is who he wants me to be. And I am enough. And I'm not, I would be enough if I didn't have a job, if I didn't have a husband, if I didn't have kids, I would still be enough. And I think that thinking about that really allows you to separate your identity from your job. And actually, don't you feel like for Christians, it should be almost easier to say that your job is not your identity? What's your thought on that? Because I feel like in culture, like non-Christians, a lot of people, their job is their identity. And in Christianity, we should be able to say we're enough as it is. Maybe it's, I don't know, maybe it's not that easy.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

We should, but you brought up other cultures too. I think being Christian sometimes gets us used to performing. So depending on what your theology is and how you're trained, then you may associate doing better work with being a better human when that may not necessarily be the case. That's not like you said, that's not where God sees our value. And then we have companies and our managers that reinforce that. Even our parents, I look at that too. People who are people pleasers, I say I'm a recovered people pleaser. Um, but you look at how the things that your parents might have praised more often. Right. Um, and so that people who are people pleasers, they lean, they said, Oh, I got more praise. So I'm liked better, so I'm gonna do more of these activities because what makes someone like me better. Yes. And that is not necessarily the case. So then how I mean, as a manager, how do we help our employees not identify, like, you know, take their work as their identity?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Well, I think you're I think you're a perfect example of this. So I think like managing Camilla would be about embracing all that other stuff. I think, you know, I talk about, I come back to this refrain so common so commonly. You do have to give your employees flexibility because how on earth are they gonna have a life outside of their job if you do not give them flexibility? If they have to be in at 7:30 and out at 5.30 and always available for you, well, that might be great for you, boss, but that is absolutely the wrong way to be a good steward of your employees. And I've been thinking about this over the past couple months. What is the manager's responsibility in caring for their employees? And I think it's much different than it used to be. I think in the old days, being a manager was like, okay, yeah, they came in and I paid them and they did their job. But I think we, especially as Christian leaders, need to move beyond that. And we need to care for the whole employee. That doesn't mean hours-long therapy sessions, but it does mean creating a safe environment for them and it means supporting them in their goals. Something that I feel like is really important for managers is to find out, Camille, where where do you want to go? Where where do you want to get to? It doesn't have to be that you want to take my job, although you're welcome to it. It doesn't have to be that, but maybe your goal is to eventually like be the next, I don't even know, I can't even think of Christian, like Mike Mullins or something. Isn't like Mike Mullins if you're out there. You've got to figure out what your next, like what your next goal is. And the manager really should help you try to get there. Even if it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll still be at the same company. The best managers can give you the skills and the support to get you where God wants you to be, regardless of if that's set that's to me.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

There was an exercise we did practicing the way was a discipleship program my church did last year. And I'm not gonna do it now because I almost cried, only did the episode. But I'll challenge listeners to close your eyes.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

You want me to do it?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Don't do it. Okay, we'll cry. Okay. But close your eyes and then imagine yourself at 80 years old. Who is that person? And I like balled my eyes out because as soon as I closed my eyes, I saw myself as a grandma.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Well, but Camille, why does that make you sad?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Like that, I was I was just doing it in my head and I'm like, that thinks. I never realized how important that was to me. Oh, the easy over the career, over whatever. Like, I I want to be a grandma. Like, so all of this stuff, not that it doesn't matter. It does. But maybe I just have it too, like I have the pedestal too high for these things because that may not be what I really value. Like my identity at 80 is not gonna be anything. It's not tied to necessarily some of the things that you're doing right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

No. Okay, at 80, when you closed your eyes, were you also leading worship? No.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Oh, you had really good. Oh my gosh. Yikes. Because I've had to attach my identity from that too. Right, of course. Oh, that's then. Oh wow. I don't even want to go there.

unknown 16:08

We don't have enough.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

That's a super good activity, though, because then it really helps you figure out it's the same kind of thing as like what do you want written on your tombstone? Yeah. And what do you want people to say about you back to the obituary thing? This is supposed to be a happy episode. We don't need to keep talking about death and maybe. Um, but really kind of focusing now on where you want to be. I have a vision board up. Do you have a vision board? I feel like you do. I've had the same vision board for maybe 10 years, and about half of the stuff on the vision board has come true. So that's so good. I just have another half of the stuff. Um, we're getting the signal from Alex again. You and I can just talk all day, Camille. Yeah, we can just talk all day. Okay, um, maybe we'll come back to that your job is not your identity at some point because I feel like there's a lot more to say. But on behalf of me and Camille, we want all of you ladies listening to know that your job is not your identity. And honestly, even being a wife and mother is not your full identity because God has your identity is complete in who you are. And one piece of advice that I would give unasked for is that you you take you carve out some time for yourself. Wife, mother, no matter what your job is, take some time, do it for me and Camille. Take one day in the next month. Do not try to pull away from everything, spend time with the Lord, read the Bible, pray, and just see what comes from that because I think it's gonna be very illuminating.

unknown 17:18

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Okay, do we have a question from the audience, producer Alex? I hope it's an exciting one and not a depressing one.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Let's see. All right. So have you ever personally struggled with over-identifying with your career and what did that look like?

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Well, I think I think Camille, who's that from? That's from Sarah in Georgia. Yeah. I think Camille, that you have covered that. Yeah. I think you've covered that. I would say that I haven't as much experienced that necessarily. And that's because of some experiences early on in my life where there was a lot of like um uh like just like emotional things. I've really learned from early on that if you don't pour energy into the core of who you are, you're never gonna be able to have enough to give to others. So I always see my career as a means to an end. And that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that I'm not sometimes like way too focused on my job, but I'm always focused on it as in where does God want me to go with this? What is this allowing me to do that I can serve the Lord in other areas? So, but that has that was very hard fought, and I wouldn't wish the way that I got there on anyone.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yeah, I think one aspect I may not have covered earlier in the what did it look like? I realized when I had to shift. So I'll talk about worship. So last year I just sensed a nudging to transition out of my role at part-time role as a director, and that to help out a new church plant. Well, and the new church plant, I'm not the director. Ooh. So, how do you navigate the emotions that may be attached to I'm used to being the leader, I'm used to people coming to me for my advice. I'm used to having my hand and touch in a lot of different places. So it took me really sitting with the Lord to adjust and recalibrate like, who am I as just a servant? You know, it's right. Like, is that enough? Am I doing enough? And the answer is yes. Of course. Just like you said, we're a tapestry. Yeah. Um, so every season looks different. The the core is that we're serving. We're serving the Lord wherever we are, at work, in church, and He can use us. We have so many different ways we can be used. So I work on the Salvations team now. So I still am it on the worship team, but my key leadership role is in salvations, and that had actually been something I was praying to the Lord about. That I wanted to be connected more with people who, when they made the decision to follow Christ, because I felt like I'm leading from the stage and those decisions happen, but I felt far away from those people. Right. He planted me right on the team. So I had to like allow him to like, you know, really.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

If he hadn't stripped away the director title, you wouldn't have gotten to have that close connection that's going to be more fulfilling to you. Yes.

unknown 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Camille, you are just an amazing woman of the Lord. And I really hope that we get to do more podcasts together because I want you guys to all get to know Camille more. Like you just are such a wonderful woman of the word. Like you just, you just some Christian women have like a glow about them that you know Jesus is in them and Jesus is inside you, right? But all the spirits inside you, Camille, but you're just a gift, a gift from God, and we're glad to have you. So, everyone, we would like to tell you to lead on or lead in or do something with leading. And thank you so much, Camille, for your time. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Thanks for joining us. Have a blessed week and lead on the