The Candy Jar Boss And Other Manager Myths

We unpack what makes a good manager today and why the old command and control mindset no longer works in a complex workplace. We share stories from early management mistakes, removals business realities, and the leadership habits that build trust while still driving results.
• a modern definition of good management: clarity, trust, emotional intelligence, adaptability
• learning to manage people rather than assuming it comes naturally
• how empathy without boundaries can slide into poor performance
• falling into management as a business owner and learning on the job
• handling temporary staff and why that approach would change today
• why consistency matters more than being “nice”
• what HR does now and how it supports people and the business
• why management is not the only path to success
• the risk of wanting to be liked instead of having tough conversations
• new manager insecurity and the value of asking for support
• treating people fairly rather than treating everyone the same
If you want any more information or to let us know what you'd like us to talk about, go to the website beabetteru.ca podcast.

Have a question, a comment, or want to find out more? go to https://www.beabetteryou.ca/

Podcast thoughtfully produced by https://www.isleofsound.ca/

Transcript

Meet Sharon And Peter

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is Straight Up Talk with Sharon and Peter. We are both proud Brits and Canadians. This is a no-nonsense weekly podcast about people, life, leadership, and all sorts of stuff. We don't always agree. I'm Sharon Jones, business owner of Be A Better You, developing better managers and leaders, and this is Pete Johnson, owner of Move A Man Traders.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Buy and sell anything.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Absolutely.

Good Manager Then And Now

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Topic for this week on our podcast is what makes a good manager today versus 40 years ago. I'll give you an overview. Throughout time, none of us have been born knowing how to manage other people. We need to learn it. And the learning changes as we continue to morph societally in the workplace. I looked up a definition for what a good manager looks like today. I think this is kind of interesting. A good manager today creates clarity, not control, where managers once relied on authority and hierarchy, today they enable performance through trust, emotional intelligence, and adaptability. They coach more than they tell, develop people, not just deliver results and balance accountability with empathy to drive performance in a more complex, human-centered workplace. Now I have to say that's the definition, but I also have to say that's not the reality.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

That's the culprit definition, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Well, it it it is, and of course, that's my background, that's the world that I live in. But if managers were already doing this, I'd be out of a job.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

You'd be out of a job, yeah.

Sharon Learns Empathy Limits

SPEAKER_01 1:48

I'm gonna tell a quick story from my perspective of when I started managing. And I think the point is, as I alluded to, when we look at 40 years ago, a long time ago, a lot of things have changed. It did used to be command and control. I remember when I got my first job as a manager, I was working in in Halifax, a little advertising agency called Junction 22.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Halifax, England, not Nova Scotia.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Thank you. Yes, Halifax, England, indeed. And I got uh this girl, her name was Lisa and probably still is, and she probably won't listen to this, so it doesn't really matter. So she she came aboard, she was really nice. I liked her, I liked to um encourage her, but I was too empathetic. And what happened was over time she started to take a bit of advantage of me, and she was off a lot. And I realized fairly quickly that hang on, the rubber needs to hit the road somewhere. This is a business ultimately. We're not in the business of making people feel good per se. Obviously, that helps. We're in the business of uh making sure that the business makes money so that we all have jobs. So that was how I came at it back then. Peter, over to you.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Well, d this Lisa, did she was she a bit of a sick note, you mean? Yeah. Bit of a sick note. Yeah, you mean she smelled off.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

She was a bit of a sick note.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, a bit of a sick note.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

A bit of a sick note, yeah.

Peter Falls Into Being The Boss

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Okay, so my experience is um I I I I sort of fell into management. I didn't plan it or anything. I was working as a a young young boy in a furniture store, and then I got involved in house removals and went and worked for a few companies, and then um someone one day said, You know so much about that business, you're very good at it, why don't you start start your own company? So I did. And um I didn't realize I didn't even see myself as a manager.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I just So when you started though, and your business name was what was the name?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Uptown removals.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

And it was just you to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah, it was uh it was started out as a courier service because I had a contact that wanted me to courier parcels around London. And um because I got uh because I was born in London, got a good knowledge of the districts, uh I saw it as a good way to earn some money, you know? And they were they they was based up in Aton Garden. So it was central London, I knew the area well. I became uptown courier, and then I started getting loads and loads of inquiries from guys that I used to work with in the removals business to help out on weekends to do removals. So that's what I did. So I used to hire lorries, trucks.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

But at some point you can't do it all alone, can you?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

No, that's right. So you need a team, so you have to get yourself a get yourself some good guys together and uh start a company, and that's what I did. It was only it was only a small company, the might the most I think the biggest job I ever did was like 30 blokes. I had 30 a team of about 30 of us. Most jobs were four or five, four or five guys, six maybe six, seven on weekends, two trucks, two or three trucks.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

So how did how did you manage your blokes? Uh well back then.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

I suppose I uh again it was something I didn't I didn't know I was doing, but I became the boss, and oh you know, overnight I became the boss and then started telling them what to do, how much they was getting paid, and uh yeah, I kind of I kind of sort of just fell into the role. But um what one um one story which I'm probably not proud of today and which goes back to what you're saying um

The Agency Worker Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 5:28

how things were different 40 years ago. This this this this one instance comes from like 30 years ago, and it was uh it was a quite a big job we had, and then we had three trucks on it, and we had about 10 guys, and I only had four regulars, so I had to get um agency staff in. And most of the time the agency guys are good, they they're used to the work, they know exactly what they you know what so just for the benefit, what's an agency person? So I don't know what they call it over in Canada. Uh I'm not sure either, but just um what it is, if you're if you're a temporary worker, you don't want a full-time job for whatever reason, uh you you sign up for an agency and they put you they they offer you jobs in the in the line of work that you prefer your preferred line of work.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

So you know, removals came under the general labouring uh yeah, yeah. You didn't didn't have to have many skills to be perfectly honest. You just need to be physically fit and able to carry stuff around, you know. Load trucks and unload trucks, that was it basically.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Take things to the van.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Take things to the van and take things from the van. Who said that? That was a photo.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

That was Mickey Flanagan.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Mickey Flanagan, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So you go you advertise that you need some some blokes to help you with this temporary.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Well you ring up an agency. There are agencies set up in London.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Okay, perfect. So continue.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

So so yeah, you ring you ring an agency and they send you a couple of guys, you say straight away, are they used to office moves? Because it's m m the bulk of the work in office moves is desks. Lifting desks, heavy furniture, and crates full of paper. Because back then like everything was hard copy. People kept hard copies, paper copies of everything. So it was a fairly uh it was you know, it was time consuming to pack it all into crates.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

And heavy.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

And it's heavy work, it was heavy work. Anyway, on this one particular job, I think I had about four agency guys, and uh one of them didn't show up till quarter past nine. He should have started at nine. And um he was in a team of four, and one one takes things to the lift, one throws it down the lift, one takes it out of the lift, and one loads it onto the lorry. And that that that that scenario carries on all morning until you've loaded every single crate. Well, one of the trucks wasn't getting loaded quick, so I've gone down to the ground floor to find out what was happening, and there's this guy sitting down having a cigarette. I said, Oh, what are you doing? Yeah, I'm just having a break. He said, It's really hard work this, innit? I said, Well, what did you expect? I said, Are you the guy that turns up at quarter past nine? Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry about that, the bus was late. I said, Well, you know what, it's quarter past nine. We've got we're gonna be here for the next 10 hours, you know that. There's thousands and thousands of crates and furniture to be loaded. And um you look like you're struggling. I said, I've got you've got two choices now. You could do you want to go now or do you want to stay? He said, Oh, I I think I'll go. And uh off he went. I I think he worked 20 27 minutes or something like that. He joined the 27 club, just a different kind, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

But I mean that what's interesting about that though is he wasn't a permanent worker, but he was somebody who you dealt with in in the moment in your direct way. Yeah. Um, so but then you did have some regular guys like Cheeky, Cheeky and Columbo, they all had nicknames.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

All the workers that had, you know, it if they stayed with me for more than sort of two or three weeks, they got given a nickname. So I used I won't go into Cheeky, but yeah, you can guess.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Well, there's lots of different interpretations

Consistency And Bad Manager Lessons

SPEAKER_01 9:06

of that. Um, I used to say as well that because I've had a lot of bad managers myself in the past. I remember I once worked for two managers, and that was awful. If anybody out there works for two managers and they are different, it is really challenging. And if you manage somebody and somebody else also manages them, it is really not fair to the person. One guy, he was really nice one day, and then the next day, he would be horrible. The other guy was horrible the whole time, but I actually preferred him because you knew what you were doing. I knew he was getting, yeah. You were he was consistent. Yeah, so I think that managers need to be consistent, but not consistently bad, obviously, consistently good. I'm doing a whole series on LinkedIn in a minute about the issues that managers are uh going through. The levels of what a manager is required now in terms of coaching and emotional intelligence and empathy are far greater than they were command and control times. When I used to be a manager, um, I used to say to people, Well, you know, I've learned more from bad managers than good ones. And this was a backhanded compliment, I think. I had somebody working for me, her name was Marilyn, if you're listening. She said to me, You know what? I've learned nothing from you.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Oh, I met Marilyn, lovely lady from Toronto.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

That's right, yeah. So we used to laugh at that, about that. And I'm hoping that she did meant that obviously just as a bit of a joke. Um, is yeah, you learn from bad managers about how not

Why HR Changes The Game

SPEAKER_01 10:40

not to manage.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Of course, yeah. Can I just interrupt there? Sorry. The the the way I handled that, I I you wouldn't get away with that today. You know, just telling the guy like you either got you got two choices, you either stay or you leave.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

No, you probably wouldn't. And to be fair, I'm not sure that um I would be talking with HR.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Because HR has now got a much bigger role in that because they're there for the good of the person as well as the good of the business. So they are an intermediary. You can help with these kinds of issues, um, help people to feel good and also stop the business getting into challenges.

Managers Who Do Not Like People

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Another thing that I found interesting is that some people think that being a manager is the way to success. A few years ago, I was doing uh I was on the circuit doing a conference, and it was uh the topic was supervisors and managers, and it was a five-day conference, and I was with another great trainer. It might have been um Lorna, actually. Oh no, that was a different con conference. Anyway, I was with another trainer, we were doing these different tracks, and I was in a room, I think it we were out west, and there was probably about 150 people in there who were all managers and supervisors, and the thought suddenly struck me. I've been talking about working with people and how amazing it can be when you manage people effectively. And I just stopped and said, How many people of you here really don't like people? Not really expecting anyone to put their hands up. And about 15 to 20 hands went up in the air. I was gobsmacked.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

How many people don't like people?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, how many of you don't like people? So 15 to 20 hands went up. I went, Why are you managers then?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Because you can tell if your manager is you don't have to like them necessarily, but the manager should care about your career development, should care about what you do. They don't have to like you, they don't have to be your best buddy. But understanding that management isn't necessarily the route to success. I worked with this other girl who she wanted to be liked more than she wanted to be managed. She would keep a jar full of candy, yeah, sweeties in her office so that people would come in and be all happy and smiley, but she could never have the tough performance conversations with so um any anything else that you would like to add here. Oh, no, I've I've got another quick story, but before I tell this, quick story. Anything from your point of view?

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Not really. I mean, you know, my only experience is is when I had the moving business. That's the only time I've ever had to manage.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Oh, actually, what the butlings you were managed, that's where we met, which is a holiday camp.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

If you can imagine dirty dancing in the UK, so it's like a holiday camp with rain. Butlings, that's where you and I met.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

You were managed then, but you got fired.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Oh, I got fired, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's badly managed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah, you were badly managed.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Well, I had five good years here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, well, of course you did, you met me, so it can't have been all

New Managers Do Not Know Everything

SPEAKER_01 13:49

bad. Um, so the other thing about what happens when people get promoted into being a manager, they suddenly think that they need to be able to do everything. And instead of being curious and asking questions and looking for support, they seem to think that they should know how to do it all. Reality is nobody knows how to do it all. And when I've done manager programs before in companies, and when they find out from each other how they're feeling about it, they realize, oh, I'm not alone. So if there is anybody out there who is an aspiring manager, you're you're not alone, you don't know it all, and in fact, you never want to be the smartest person in the room because if you are, you're in the wrong room. With that, then that was a quick take on this topic.

Fairness Takeaways And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_01 14:37

So, my brutally honest takeaway of the week about being a good manager in today's environment, you have to actually like managing people, plus know how to say the hard thing clearly to develop people and own your results. Peter, over to you.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Um, well, I'm gonna keep it simple, nice and short. Um you know, try and try and manage everybody uh and treat them fairly, and just remember there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

And I'm thank you for that, but I'm also glad what you said was treat them fairly, not treat them equally. We treat people fairly according to how they show up. Not everybody should be treated the same. Thank you very much for listening. If you want any more information or to let us know what you'd like us to talk about, go to the website beabetteru.ca podcast. And this week's podcast has been thoughtfully broadcast. Oops, nope, thoughtfully produced even by the Isle of Sound. Thank you. Good night from me, good night from him, and it's good night from me too.