Why we don't always agree - and it's a good thing

Raised voices can look like a relationship problem, but we explain how disagreement can be a way to stress test ideas and arrive at the same conclusion. We share everyday stories, a bit of neuroscience, and the research insight that matters most: how you repair after conflict. 
• why people mistake disagreement for arguing 
• using everyday choices like the air fryer to reveal risk, stability, and spending habits 
• the tree removal story and the difference between reacting and assessing 
• why we rarely clash on values like freedom, autonomy, and equivalency 
• how the amygdala can turn conflict into a threat response 
• task conflict versus relationship conflict and what protects trust 
• Gottman’s idea that repairing quickly matters more than avoiding conflict 
If you want any more information or let us know what you'd like to talk about, go to the website beabetteryou.ca/podcast and send us a message.

Have a question, a comment, or want to find out more? go to https://www.beabetteryou.ca/

Podcast thoughtfully produced by https://www.isleofsound.ca/

Transcript

Welcome And The No Nonsense Premise

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is Straight Up Talk with Sharon and Peter. We are both proud Brits and Canadians. This is a no-nonsense weekly podcast about people, life, leadership, and all sorts of stuff. We don't always agree. Hello, this is Sharon and Pete with episode 10 of Straight Up Talk. I'm Sharon.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

And I'm Pete Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Don't know why that always makes me laugh. Why does it make you laugh? Dunno.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It's been my name for 65 years.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Okay, I'm not going to argue with you about that.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Okay.

Why Disagreement Looks Like Fighting

SPEAKER_01 0:37

But the topic this week. Chris, our producer, commented that we say we don't agree, yet we actually always seem to.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

So ever since Chris said that to us, I started thinking about it. And I think what we've realized since we've discussed this is that people often hear Pete and me disagreeing and they assume that we're arguing. But the truth is, disagreement is often how we arrive at the same conclusion. We're not fighting each other, we're stress testing an idea. So there are certain things that we perhaps may not agree on that we're not going to talk about here, like climate change and politics. But before I go over a few things that we've recently had disagreements on, um what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Well, I actually think it's healthy to disagree. Um obviously you don't want to be punching each other's faces, but you know, it's it's in a relationship, particularly you gotta it's it's no good being with somebody you you know we know somebody recently we spoke about, they're always agreeing, and one follows the other, and one says this and the other one agrees, and it just becomes tedious.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Right. Well, it it it does to us, and I think that is reflective of who we are. So some of the things that we've disagreed about recently getting the last couple of days.

The Air Fryer And Spending Habits

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Well, a couple of them the last couple of days, but one of them was getting an air fryer. So a couple of years ago, air fryers came out because I like new and shiny things, and I'm talking about let's get an air fryer. And you were like, no.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Well, we don't need one, we've got a frying pan, we got an oven.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

And because you're the person who does the majority of the cooking, I thought, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah. And then one day I thought, nah, just gonna get yeah, Amazon's your friend, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Amazon is. I thought, what's the worst thing that can happen? And then I got it.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Oh yeah. Now game changer. Absolute game changer. So I don't know why it took you so long to order it. I really don't.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

It was because for so long I've been let's get an air fryer, no. And there was no rationale to your position on why you wouldn't get one, but it really talks about your preference for um stability, I think. And not one of the other things that we can argue about is I'm a bit more of a spendthrift than you are.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

So definitely but you don't really give me a lot of grief about that to be fair, and I I've got better since we've got together. But it drives me nuts sometimes when you won't buy something unless it's on sale.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Well, yeah. Uh well, I'm always looking for a bargain, as you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

But um, I mean, yeah, the the air fryer thing, I I absolutely 100% agree. It probably had best purchase in the last 12 months. And you use it all the time now. Every day.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

So the there are times when I'm right. Um now again.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah.

The Tree Removal And Staying Calm

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Well, something happened last week actually. Uh I was sitting there in my front office and we had that's tense now, a big uh green, I think it's a green ash tree in our front garden, and I looked out and I saw there's a big, big truck there, and thinking, what are they doing? They're gonna st they're gonna chop this tree down. So I go running out uh as I go uh excuse me, what are you doing? He said, Well, come to to chop the tree down. I said, What? You're not doing that. He said, Well, yeah, it's it's got a green ring around it, meaning it's we had to go down the street. We're looking for all the trees that have been infected. To come down, yeah. Infected by this emerald beetle. Yep. So I said, he he said, You should have been informed. I said, I said, Does this look like the face of someone who's been informed? So that's probably a bit bit harsh. However, I knew that he was the kind of guy who could sort of take that. So then they come running in to you, they go, It's that it's not fair, they're gonna take the tree down. You just do something, yeah. Just do something about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Do something mutterly. Yeah, and you uh my response was well, they I look outside the window, I can see it's a Hordeman County truck, two guys, all in high vis, all got the proper safety wear on the helmets, everything. They've obviously working for the local council, they've been instructed to take the tree down. So nothing you can do is gonna stop them. And then after a few minutes, well after you'd calmed down a bit, I went out and asked them. Because you you said to me at one point, can we save some of the branches and we can throw them on the bonfire at the weekend?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, you said no to that.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

No, no, they will send it. No way, no way. Will they allow that? Absolutely. They got a grinding machine there on the back of the truck, what they feed the branches into, and it grinds up into mush. So they're not gonna let anybody go near the back of the truck.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

No, I I I understand that. I think what irritated me at first, and it very often what happens with us is we get uh very emotionally attached to something, and I just what I was irritated because you didn't you you're just so calm and you didn't want to do anything about it because we didn't agree on what should be done. And ultimately, as often happens between us, is that we can't calmness takes over. Yeah. And oops, so you've got to quit smoking there, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, uh, is that we actually really I realized that that you were right because we're we're both quick to take a strong position on anything, and that's why it looks like often we we disagree.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

I mean, if there had been two random blokes outside hacking away at the tree, I probably would have gone out and said exactly what you said, but I I took I took a minute, see, which is what I do. I assess the situation, I calm myself down and go, let me just have a look at it. What do you reckon they're doing, Peter? Right? They are council employees, obviously. They've got all the equipment, all the safety stuff, and like I said, and we have had markings in the front garden for a couple of months. So that was obviously what the markings were for. I know, but we're not supposed to guess. No, but they I suppose they have to get around in a certain yeah, they they take a route, maybe they do the most important ones in town first, and then they go to the out outlying areas, and then we happen to come into that category. So th the you know the markings were there for two or three months.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

I I

Shared Values Behind The Noise

SPEAKER_01 7:28

know, I get that. And I think I think the other the other thing is the things that we argue about don't tend to be our values. I think we both have we've got very similar values, so and those are actually very difficult to um compromise on if you have a difference in in value. So we we've both got very strong values around uh freedom and what that means to us around autonomy and what that means to us, um, and equivalency, what that means to us. We've got those strong values. Um so we don't tend to argue about anything like that, because you can argue about how things are done, but when it comes down to how our very core, we're very similar.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Very similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

We're on the same page.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And that's what Chris pointed out. We are on the same page quite often.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

And but I think where we started from with these podcasts saying we don't always agree, that is true to begin with. Um, but as I say, there's certain things that if we know it causes issue between us and it's not relevant to our personal relationship, then we don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Quite often it comes down to how many glasses of wine Sharon's had.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Or you.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah. Two or three, we're okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

So yeah, it's it's not helpful when we can get because that yeah, I mean, I'm usually quite nice when I'm drunk every now and again and get but belligerent, as as do you. So we tend to Oh no, I don't. I've come here for an argument. Yeah. In Monty Python. Great sketch, yeah, yeah. It is, but so when we break it down into the things that we don't agree about, there are very few that are in there every day in our lives that are challenging. Um, but when people people do see us, and we gave this example before where people they saw us at at the horseshoe show, yeah. And we're arguing because of the way that we do it, we've we're we let our emotions out with it.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

That was a normal thing for us.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah, that was normal for us.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

It's not very pleasant for people to be around until they've been around it a few times and then they go, Oh, it's just them. Just them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, then they may see it as funny, but uh, we know people who go through their whole lives avoiding conflicts. Um, I always remember this this one person, a friend of mine, and she she said to me, Uh, oh, uh my husband's not talking to me. I said, Why not? She said, I don't know. So, what do you mean you don't know? Haven't you asked him? She said no. I could not understand that. And then a week later, she said, Oh, he he bought me some flowers and some chocolates. I said, What for?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Happy ending.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I said, What for? She said, I don't know. I just it that to me that was mind-blowing. So she never found out, she never found out, but this is I could not live my life like that. If if I have something that uh I need to say for a particular reason, I would never shy away from it. But I think there's a whole piece on how strong you feel about asserting your position and who you're asserting your position with. Obviously, we're not argumentative with other people, but with each other, we can get quite heated. Um, there was was the the no the fondue set, it wasn't um no. I mean, that wasn't really anything we argued about, but again, it's another one of those I bought it.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

You you like all these fancy things like fondue sets. A fondue set, right, for people listening, is is a saucepan with a few s with a few things that you use for uh kebab skewers, you know? You know, you buy a saucepan for 20 bucks and a couple of kebab skewers for ten bucks, and you got yourself a fondue set, but Sharon buys one for four nine nine.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

It wasn't that much, good grief.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

That's ridiculous. I would never pay that much 499 for a fondue set.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

It wasn't it wasn't cheap, I know that.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Anyway, swiftly moving on to um to not

Brains In Conflict And Repair Fast

SPEAKER_01 11:41

that. So I looked at uh neuroscience angle, is that when people argue, our brains can interpret disagreement as threat. Um, so the amygdala, as we know, the amygdala, that thing in our head, it activates our adrenaline rises, our heart rate increases, the body prepares for fight, flight, or freeze. But not everyone's brain learns the same lesson about conflict. So for some people, conflict can mean abandonment, so they shut down. For others, it becomes rejection. So they turn out to be people pleasers like this person I was telling you about. She couldn't have a conflict with anybody, she just was a people pleaser, which I found infuriating. And for others, conflict can equal challenge, they lean into it. So you and me, we've learned based on our backgrounds, hey, I can survive this, right? We're both fighters. Various things in our childhood created the conditions where we are quite capable of standing up for ourselves. We're not frightened of disagreeing.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Never be afraid to defend yourself.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Absolutely not, and we both learn that through different paths, right? So when we're fighting, it's usually about the idea, not a person. Like we don't go down, well, we do call each other names, but that usually is in hilarity. We call each other some really funny.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

We've got some funny names for each other, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Oh, we we do, and we have some sweary names that we use, which ultimately they end up making us laugh. Yeah. Because again, it's it's our language. Um, so and psych psychologists call this task conflict versus relationship conflict, and task conflict can improve decision quality because you're exploring ideas, whereas, of course, relationship conflict damages trust. So I think we've got quite a good uh bank of trust in our definitely in our relationship.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Um, because we've got those shared values, I think is very important. So here's my brutally honest takeaway of the week about always agreeing or disagreeing. Most people see raised voices and strong disagreement and think relationships is is in trouble. Relationship researchers would say the more important question is what happens after the disagreement. One of the strongest findings from the work of John Gottman is that successful long-term couples aren't couples who avoid conflict, they're couples who repair quickly after conflict. In other words, conflict isn't the predictor of relationship failure, inability to recover from conflict is.

Defend Your Corner And Closing

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Very true.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Over to you, Peter, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Oh, I'll keep it nice and brief. Never be afraid to uh stand your corner and defend yourself uh if you feel like you, you know, you should. And um, yeah, that's basically it, really. Just always defend yourself. Don't be frightened of debate. But never ever in the in the any conversation on let's agree to disagree. That's very passive aggressive and doesn't normally work.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Ooh, there's an interesting one for another time, actually. For another time. Great that one. Let's agree to disagree. Yeah. Okay, in the bank, that one. Thanks for listening, everybody. If you want any more information or let us know what you'd like to talk about, go to the website beabetteru.ca backslash podcast. This week's podcast has been thoughtfully produced by the Isle of Sound. Thank you, everyone. Good night from me.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

And it's good night from me.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Good night.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Good night.