Distilled #1: Goals, Gearing & The Only Question That Matters

 Alex flies solo for the first time on Distilled — Finance But Neat's rapid-fire clarity format. In this episode he breaks down the big ideas from the Riley and Bindi episodes: why three years beats one and ten, the Two Pillars framework in plain language, what the May budget actually changed (and what it didn't), and the single question that cuts through all the noise on property decisions. 

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Finance, But Neat is hosted by Alex Watson, an accredited mortgage broker and director of Funded Finance. 

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Transcript

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You're playing the game. It's pretty set what moves are open to you. And so the choice, it's not what game to play, it's about what moves you're going to choose to make. And whether you do it eyes wide open or shut yourself away from reality. Distilling the complex. It's what I do on a daily basis. And essentially, it's the foundation of this show. It's what we're all about at Finance buttneat. It's not just about the whiskey. You you might know more about that by now. But essentially, we've gone through a lot of information. And so from time to time, I want to stop and just do a quick distillation of the stuff that we've discussed. And so today, welcome to the first solo podcast that I've done. The soft launch didn't count. And it's just going to be you and me. But today I'm going to clarify a few things we discussed and just make sure we actually get it all out for you. And essentially, we've got Riley and I, Bindy and I. We went through a bunch of upgrading your home and we touched on a lot of different topics, right? We touched on a lot of information about how to actually do it with CGT, negative gearing, all these big things. And so we want to go through and actually understand what those mean and just kind of clarify and distill a few things for you. Let's get into it. So if we can compound some clarity, we will absolutely. And so the first thing that I want to jump into today is really about the goals side of thing. I think this is a maybe something that I probably haven't captured well enough in the clips that we've released. And so if this is really interesting to you, I think it should be. You are correct. It should be interesting to you. And if it's not interesting to you, you're wrong. Sorry. Actually, I'm not sorry. Be right. But no, I look, I I firmly believe that this is something that not enough people understand the mechanics around. And I it probably comes down to a lot of us feeling really frustrated with uh smart goals and they've got to be videoable or whatever that is, right? And so what I want to really believe in and think about is actually the time frame of what your goals are, actually trying to get practical and what it looks like to instill some long-term milestones in your life and your financial matters. And so for me, uh, I got a couple key takeaways from Riley, right? So one year, it's just too small. It pushes you into reaction. It's generally already done. Like if I think about myself, Anna and I did a one-year kind of review at the start of this calendar year. Uh, the end of financial year is crazy, and we get a bit of time over Chrissy to dream and think about what the year ahead means. So we sat down and realistically, we're six months in and we're kind of executing on that. You'll hear more in a future episode around that sort of stuff. But we're executing on our plan. The one year, it's kind of already done. And so we might be able to go, well, the next six months, it's a locked-in. Let's see what that next thing looks like. But it's always in the the kind of micro week to week, day-to-day. It's already impacted. And so, contrary to the one year, right? The 10 years being the other option, it's a it's a little bit too long out. It's a bit of a fantasy, and I'm all for vision. I live in the land of vision. But 10 years you can kind of influence, you can't control the outcome of it as much because you are going to change if you're not growing over 10 years. Good luck, good luck. Three years though, that for me was the one that I really took away as being something that you can impact, something that you can change and really, really make a huge difference out of. And so that discussion with Riley was incredible to understand the different levers that you can pull and really the importance of actually not reacting, but thinking through. And I don't think, and I've been guilty of this for many, many years, it's only been the last two to three years that I've uh really taken this seriously. I don't think enough of us actually think about the long-term uh outcomes of what we're doing, discussing, and working on. And so that brings us with the three years being honest, real, and very, very impactful and able to be impacted. And so, how do you actually understand what your goals are? How do you learn to compromise? And this was an incredible discussion that I think every couple needs to do and have. And Riley gave us a 10-3 now exercise. Again, one year, it's the now. You can impact it a little bit, but you're looking at the longer term, and it was a practical just version of what are your goals? How do you do it? How do you discuss, and then how do you relate that to money instead of I want to go overseas? Well, can you actually go overseas, or do you actually need to think about that a little bit more? And just kind of underwriting that whole conversation was the realities of money, the realities of a budget and what that looks like. And I think that's just something that we just absolutely need to land. We need to land it more often. The second thing of that uh really comes to mind from that kind of discussion before we dive further in was the millennial focused frame that we had. And look, we're both in our 30s, we're both, you know, soon to be parents. Congrats, Riley. And that that focus is really on the 20s and 30s as being the foundation financially of our future. And one of the things that I was really, really blessed to learn early on was the 20s is a great time to serve your apprenticeship for your career, and careers can change, worlds can change. I never thought that 10 years ago I'd be doing this, but it's become an integral part of uh making sure your business is out there when we're when we're kind of B2C, the business decline, you need to be able to communicate well, and so 10 years on, I'm here doing a podcast in my own office, self-employed when I didn't think I'd even be in mortgage broking 10 years on realistically. Things are going to change, but I dutifully served my apprenticeship. I looked at what was in front of me career-wise, and I took that step. I kept knocking on the door. When things didn't work, I tried to keep moving forward, I tried to keep earning more money, I tried to keep building on the foundation, and now at 35, I am deliriously happy with how my career is working. And so I think if we look at the foundation of our lives, being the 20s and 30s, and understand the compounding nature of money over 30 years, we can absolutely start to understand the ramifications of those decisions that we're making. And one of the things that I really, really loved that Riley made is you can reduce your expenses where you can, and I'll talk about the needs and wants that you want to have to spend money on all day, every day. But realistically, the compounding mindset of your earning capacity is so much more important. Riley nailed it on the head. You have an opportunity to sometimes increase your income. You can't really just cut your expenses significantly all the time. We've all got this baseline of expenses. In mortgage broking, it's called the household expenditure measure, hem. And it's an average of the household expenses around the country. It's so measured and it's pretty steady, consistent, and it doesn't actually allow for a huge amount of fat or meat above, you know, a thousand bucks recreation. And if you've got a thousand bucks recreation, I guarantee you've mistaken an expense somewhere. And so when you've got that understanding of how your expenses work, then suddenly you're in a framing position of going, well, when I get these big jumps in income, it actually gives me more buffer to invest and create wealth. And those big jumps in income, if you're avoiding the slow, slow creep, are going to put you in an incredible position over how many ever years you want to work. And the more you understand that, the less you get to work. Congrats. And so if we're looking at where we're at in terms of our goals, we're understanding the impact of our decisions in the now, which I think gives you more focus on where your goals are and making decisions over a three and 10-year period. The next thing is actually to go, well, how can we actually start to get towards that goal? We know the location of where we want to go. But what now? And I think that's the importance of the two pillars that we've got here at Funded. For me, it's really the current location. I'm going to keep talking about this time and time again. The current location of where you're going. No, that's a terrible way to start. A mortgage broker is the current location, not just any mortgage broker. Come on, guys. But a good mortgage broker will be able to sit down and go, okay, let's develop a plan. You earn X amount of dollars now, you might have a couple of kids, you've got this mortgage here, we'll paint the picture, get your borrowing capacity. All right, that's a 10-minute discussion, 20-minute discussion if you really don't have payslips or any information or income ready to go. The next thing that we need to do is actually focus up and dial in the two pillars that we need to do. And so it might be, well, we just need to keep paying down the home loan a little bit, saving a bit more money and actually letting our equity grow. Or maybe we need to pick up, if we're a double income household, another day's worth of work, or we need to really fight for a promotion because we need to actually grow our income exponentially to be able to attack that next tax bracket and really maximize our earning potential to be able to get our dreams or goals over three-year periods. And so when I look at Anna and I, if I can personalize it for a second, we have been dutifully working in our borrowing capacity for the last 12, 18 months. I've had discussions constantly, knowing that my profession is mortgage broking, but my business is what I use my equity, wealth, and create with those two things. And so we've been really focusing on how I can maximize my income, not just pay more tax for the sake of it, but work with the team that we've got around us to do that. And we're coming to a point where those plans are working. It was a continued discussion a couple years ago. We had another discussion in January. We had a little bit of a plan, some things changed, we adapted the plan slightly, but we didn't stop. We actually brought some plans forward because it was looking more promising. And those two pillars are going to be a constant discussion that you've got to have to make sure that you're working towards your goals. And then just to kind of like touch on it a little bit, is if you are in the ambiguity of the now with the negative gearing impacts and you know the capital gains tax or CGT, and you don't know what it is, and you're not taking steps to educate yourself as to what it is, then that kind of is a little bit on you. There's a lot of content out there. To give you a bit of a quick rundown, uh we use negative gearing and mortgage broking to boost your borrowing capacity. And that's the lane that I can talk to, right? A mortgage broker, that's my zone of genius. As a mortgage broker, I pump those details in and it gives me the outcome because it's taking you know a deduction against your taxable income after all the expenses of the property are taken into account. What they're proposing is they're not going to count that against your personal taxable income anymore, but it's going to count and accrue over time, and then as your property becomes positively geared, it then starts to work in your favor and you're not paying tax until that bucket is kind of drained. That is not something that we can use for servicing potentially today. And we actually, though, don't know whether we can use it in servicing moving forward. Banks have exited certain negative gearing situations, other banks have stayed into it and said we just need explanation on what your plan is. And this is a very, very ambiguous time. And for me, it wasn't so much a change of plans. We actually went quicker into our plans to secure a better deal potentially now and get less competition because people are going to react later. I just simply don't care about tax. I'll pay it. I don't want to pay the capital gains tax, and I'm not going to go into that too much now because it's not really that relevant to me right now. But I've got opinions on that. You can chat to me or give me a call if you want them. It will I will rant so quickly if you give me a buzz and go, Watson, you got permission to just tee off into the sunset. I guarantee that you will get an epic rant of incredible proportions. A rant that is going to be one for the ages, that honestly, it'll be impressive. It'll be a stream of consciousness of the likes that you have never ever experienced before. But that's cool. And so if you're looking at your current location, you know the address you need to go, right? You've got those goals. We've taken a second, we've found out where you're at now because we fixed the GPS because that's how good we are at funded. You don't need street maps, we're there. We've figured out the pillars we need to work on. What now it comes down to the team. And I think a lot of people, a lot of brokers, a lot of bankers, they don't understand that to speak to someone like myself, take that first step to reach out, it's actually a huge amount of uh momentum. Like you, there's a lot of energy, a lot of thinking, and a lot of drive to get to that point. And so what I would say is if you're dealing with a broker or an expert or a team that is not helping you propel along that point, if you and your wife or family have taken so much energy to get there, and suddenly you've got an expert that is not allowing introducing or creating opportunities for you to engage into your future, that is the wrong expert, and they might end up being a very good at one transaction, but they're not going to help two, and they're not going to help you create your future that you've planned out. And so I think right now, with all the ambiguity in the world, with everything with the budget, especially, generalist advice isn't going to work. And that's the current location. We're very generalist advice, we're masters of borrowing capacity. That's what we're good at. We need the team, and so I would recommend you get the best specialists you can to execute this. So know you now, plot small tips for yeah, so know you now and plot small steps forward and look out for people who aren't willing to honor your momentum. And so we hide behind the fourth wall no longer, ladies and gentlemen. I've got an admission. This is actually the second time I've tried to do distilled. I wish this wasn't water I've got to drive after this. Because I actually had to redo this entire next section. I've had to split it into different acts, different discussions, and this one, this one's a lengthy one. So please, please, please, please stay with me. What I want to do is I want to go through three things. The first one, so we're gonna do distilled with cell verse keep mechanics that haven't changed, and then I want to discuss the budget overlay and the decisions, you know, that are a little bit uncertain, and then just kind of clarify a few things around how that all goes. Let's see if this actually works. And so, first point I want to make is to just strip away a little bit of the noise, right? So, Riley, he made some points, and I've got notes here, ladies and gentlemen. I'm gonna read them because this is a lot. So, Riley made some point. I want to kind of go through some things that are unchanged uh in from episode three. So the first one, main residence CGT exemption. It isn't changed. If you live in a home, you get the CGT exemption. There's a bunch of other stuff that goes with that, but it remains the single most powerful move in building a residential portfolio. Uh the six-month crossover rule. We discussed that ad nauseum. Again, it's untouched. And that is a great word. I love the word ad nauseum. Uh A-D-N-A-U-S-E-M for those playing at home and don't know. The six-year rule is again untouched. Uh, move out, rent it, sell within six years, still CGT free if no other main residence is taken, I believe. Again, this is why, like, I think the crazy thing is, like, I've met some people, some brokers in some crazy career histories, and I have not met many that are actually qualified to give this advice. But we're very good at knowing a lot of things about a lot of different stuff. If you need the specialist information, get the specialist information and don't rely on the wrong expert. The structural logic of the upgrade trap. So it's untouched. Sell the first home, extinguish non-deductible debt, free up borrowing capacity for a deliberately chosen investment. That logic is still kind of working, but a lot of the discussion we put down was actually about the negative gearing boosting that next purchase with non-deductible tax debt. The reality is that if you buy a first home, that debt then becomes tax deductible. And you've got to ask the question with the right expert about what you should be paying down, selling, and removing to take that next step. And so it's not completely untouched, I tell a fib. It's more just shifted slightly and it's way more nuanced. The reality is though that this the reality though is that it actually comes down to the quality of the asset. And so it's not so much that this advice has changed, it's that this advice is actually more important to have a better asset with everything being given. With the CGT changes and all that kind of stuff, having the right asset for you is such a big, big, big thing to tackle. And then especially in a mediocre kind of rental, you know, kind of market where like we're seeing rents at the moment at 3.6%. A client today told me that they're getting 339%, 3.39%, sorry, on their rental year. That's just like, come on, that's nothing. And all it is is she made a mistake, one mistake by trusting a property manager who lives an hour plus away from the investment property, so doesn't want to visit to be able to run open homes and rent it out to someone else. And so they're kind of invested in making sure that this whole thing is actually benefiting them. Uh, not necessarily the client. You've got to understand that with a lot of states' laws at the moment, you've got one chance to negotiate your rent a year. One chance to negotiate. And if you're not taking that chance to increase rents, you suddenly got a very poor investment. I don't think the regulators understand that side of things. That these are this is not a very wealthy person. This is a a single lady with one investment property. Her first home was an investment property because that's what she could afford, and she had a great place, she loves living with her family, and so that's where she's at. I don't think she should be penalized for that, for just having a go and making her money actually just work instead of putting it under a mattress. And so the 60 grand a year in non-deductible in interest still kind of stays there a little bit or not. There's just so much around structuring your debt correctly to make money, save money, and help improve your life. Uh we kind of discussed a little, a few things around, well, you know, interest, savings, everything, how you keep saving and have 60 grand a year and non-deductible interest by collapsing, you know, not upgrading, but paying it down. It's not quite right anymore, and I'd say it's a little bit defunct because of the way the changes happen. But again, this is why, like, I've gone through one, two, three, five points there, and the first three no changes. The last two, eh, kind of changes, but also kind of the actual rules still stays the same. Like the decision-making process is evergreen. And so I think the laws may change, but does the discipline change? Not always. And so if we go what stayed the same, what's shifting slightly, we've got to understand the full picture of what might change as well. And so, point one, there is a grandfathering window, there's a transition period. So properties are owned at 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, 12th of May, they're fully grandfathered, no issues. Congrats, brilliant. Bit of murky about what does properties owned actually mean? And so if you had something under contract, there's a chance you'll be in the transition period. Because if they're contracted slash purchased between 12th of May and 30th of June that settle in that particular window, they're grandfathered through to the end of 2027. And so that's the end of financial year 2027. Uh, that means that if you've got something under contract settling shortly, you might only be one year and it's time to actually attack your budget. And so, what does that actually feed into for decision makers right now, whether you're an investor or first home buyer? I mentioned investors, I'll talk to that because that's where Anna and I are at the moment. We're pushing forward. I'm not gonna let a government dictate how I should invest. My money. If I did that, uh uh, I'd just be a wreck. I'd stick what government like if I let tax breaks dictate everything that I do, uh I might as well just be on the dole. I don't know. I don't really have an analogy for that one, but it just doesn't make sense. Like these guys are not paragons of financial management. I think they've proven that by now. They've literally cooked the market last year with the first homeowners grant and then killed it with negative gearing to undo their own issues and mistakes. And they've either super, super smart, we're all playing checkers while they've got a chessboard, or they just literally think they're playing leapfrog and we've got short-term memory issues. I mean, we are pretty highly diagnosed with ADHD in Australia, right? And if you haven't got ADHD, or you're saying you've got ADHD, but you haven't, you've probably got a dopamine addiction. So there probably are banking on us having short memories. Just a thought. But if you're a first home buyer, I think, so investor, I'm still going ahead. I'm making decisions. I've never made a decision on negative gearing, but I want to make sure that I'm positioning myself as well as possible. And so the decision for first home buyers, I would say, is very, very interesting to see if there's going to be opportunities in the market because in Queensland, we've, you know, especially around the one million mark, uh, you know, in Brisbane and metropolitan areas, we've seen this incredible growth. Uh, and this incredible opportunity to transact on certain properties where they are readily available. Um we've seen this incredible growth in the property market last year. And so there are a lot of first home buyers in the market. What we're seeing right now is everything's kind of like that, a million and fifty, just out of reach of the first homeowners guarantee. If you lose some of the bidders and some of the people making offers in the market from that pool, what does that actually mean for your chances to get approved and get an offer in accepted? It actually increases it a little bit, a fair bit. Turns out that less competition helps. It helps a lot. And so, why my encouragement to you is actually what can we do to make sure that you're getting ready to be aggressive as people step back? Is there an opportunity for you to step forward? And I think the biggest vote of confidence that you can do to do that is actually understand what's at risk. Be really clear, let your clarity compound over your finances, look at your budget versus needs versus wants, and don't go, oh, I have to give up so much to make this happen. No, go, ah, awesome. I can actually sacrifice this to benefit myself in five, 10 years' time. Imagine if I bought this house now and in 10 years' time my rent that I was paying has increased year in year in year with inflation, but my mortgage payments have actually stayed the same because I've bought this property at a snapshot in time. That's what I am at the moment. And so I think these long-term, three, 10-year goals make a huge difference when you're looking at it properly, analytically, and correctly. I had someone early in the week said, oh man, rent's always going to be cheaper than home loan repayments, and it just was just so factually incorrect. And so I'd encourage you to get really real. The catch to this whole situation is if you're upgrading a home, one of the things we talked about with Riley was if you sell your existing property or use bridging loan, you go and buy a new property, you are doing the more efficient thing when it comes to negative gearing because you won't have much negative gearing on the old property, but you can pay down the debt on the new owner-occupied property, take all the CGT free exemptions, and then buy other negatively geared properties in the future that are all tax deductible and repurpose the debt appropriately. That's changed. That's not around anymore. Potentially. Again, it's all potential. We don't actually know until it gets legislated, but this is now a really thought-out process. What I would say is again, we're going to come back to the three-year rule. Do you see you and your family in your dream home in three years? And if it's a yes, let's take care of the CGT free event and actually maximize our opportunity to buy the best possible investment property for you in the future. And so if you're looking at going, well, we can actually buy, you know, a new home that is good enough for us. It's going to be great. Our old home is a tremendous little investment. It now is the only thing that will have negative gearing. It's going to keep growing in capital growth using the uh examples Riley gave us, then that is going to be the win. Maybe that's the solution. But if you're looking at going, hey, this budget that we've got now, we've got our current location, we've looked at the pillars, this budget is not going to allow us to do what we want in three years' time. Maybe it's a sell, reduce the debt down to the minimum, and then get ready to repurpose the equity properly or do that however you like to go and purchase another investment property. That to me seems like the safe win. You're going to actually maximize your borrowing capacity on each each point. And then one of the things that Riley and I discussed was how can you manage your money efficiently? The reality is you don't just want a giant, just because negative gearing is out the window, just because negative gearing is out the window, it doesn't mean that you just want a giant big debt. You still want to silo those expenses, those investments, and be able to manage those expenses successfully. And so you still want a standalone investment. You still want a standalone owner-occupied home. You still want to decrease that successfully and consistently over time. So the tax wrapper might not be as generous as it used to be, but you've got to make sure that your eyes on the prize and you've got the best investment property and asset possible. Now, that's a lot about negative gearing. There's a big, big piece in there. We've got a little bit about CGT, but I don't really want to kind of go into that too much because full disclosure, if you tell me that you understand CGT, I want to see your accounting degree because I don't. Drives me nuts. It's infuriating. But the proposal is a 50% CGT discount replaced with an indexation plus a flat 30% rate from 1 July 2027. So we've got a bit of lead time into that. What that means in practice is long-held growth assets get slightly more tax on exit, but the indexation piece partially offsets it depending on inflation. Sure. Riley's read in the budget episode was the math still kind of works, but the strategy shifts. And so where this hits in the sell versus keep call, and I'm reading this because oh my goodness, if you're considering keeping your first home as a rental, the future after-tax sale proceeds are going to be less generous than under the current rules because you're not just getting that straight flat 50% discount. It strengthens the case for selling now and crystallizing tax-free gain on the main residence exemption. So one of the things I like to say to people when we're looking at borrowing capacity and equity solutions and then meshing the policies together, that's exactly what you've got to do now. And again, you need the right team to be able to make those decisions. You need to invest money into getting the right advice because these are big, big, big decisions. We're talking about millions of dollars at stake at times. If you look at a 30-year loan and the interest amortization of that and the graph of paying that down, we're literally talking about millions of dollars on a, you know, uh $800,000 loan. You're talking about uh another $800,000 interest over 30 years. I don't know about you, but I am not wealthy enough to abandon my $40,000 car. I think the Mustang's worth $40,000 now. I don't know. But I'm not wealthy enough to do that, let alone to just YOLO uh a $1 to $2 million purchase with $800 million worth of interest. I I don't know anyone rich enough for that, to be frank, and I know some pretty wealthy people. So take your finances seriously. Give yourself the due respect to take them seriously and weigh these decisions up appropriately. Don't retreat into your shell, just actually make a decision with wisdom, clarity, and certainty and the right experts speaking into your life. And lastly, the decision under certainty. So I think this came out loud and clear, personally. But if it didn't, I would not recommend optimizing for a policy that may or may not pass. The legislation hasn't gone through government yet. I I don't know if the bill's drafted by now, the time you're seeing this. I don't know. But the budget isn't how we create wealth. The game's shifted slightly. We've gone from chess to 3D chess. If you're an accountant, shout out Laura. She's got a lot of work ahead of herself figuring all this out. Thanks, Laura. And so what the budget doesn't change is a couple of key questions. One that Riley made a very, very big point about. Is your first home actually an investment grade asset? The budget, does it change that? Uh-uh. We need to answer that for ourselves. Uh if I was looking to upgrade tomorrow, I'm probably going to sell my home. It's not growing in value. I don't want to keep an asset that's not growing in value, regardless of how much debt I've paid down or how low the LVR is, or whether if I rent it out, it's going to, you know, pay a good rate return. The reality is I need that to grow in value. I don't care about the rental yield on it. And so what does this all mean practically? What does this mean practically? I think the work is the same as before the budget. We're still doing what we've always done. You need to get the analysis done, you need to understand the decisions that you're making financially, you need to know your two pillars, find your current location, and engage the right team around you, your family, and your financial decisions. And so make a call on the asset, not on the fiscal government policy of the day. The budget changes the tax wrapper, right? But it doesn't actually change the underlying asset underneath. A guilt-wrapped, a guilt-wrapped turd of an investment is still just a turd, regardless of the ribbon around it. And that's the only question that matters. Is this asset worth me dedicating time, money, and allowing to compound? You answer that, and you go a long, long way to making real good decisions. I hope you enjoyed this first distilled episode. It probably went for a little bit long, about half hour. I don't want to get try and get these under 20, but it depends on how much information we get through. I hope you're enjoying the podcast. If you have any barbecue chats that you want Bindy and I to talk about or any weird, wonderful, random questions you heard at a Barbie, let us know. We'd love to hear them. Check out the new podcast in two weeks coming out. You are going to love it. It's about accessing equity. Then we kickstart into a cool series about how to build a property portfolio with Colin Lee, who was on the budget reaction. And then Bindy and I land it with a little bit about why I'm still progressing with my investments. We've got so much planned for the rest of this year and podcasts, a bunch of great guests booked in. We're then going through a whole leverage, self employed arc. It's going to be great before we land into commercial property land. So hope you enjoyed this. Remember, the only question that matters is the underlying asset a good one.