Our Pour-est Decisions

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Pour Decisions is the show-after-the-show where Finance But Neat gets honest. Whiskey poured, defences down, and the money mistakes we actually made before we knew any better.

First up — me and Bindi. She was raised by two bankers. Her dad had her auditing her own bank statement interest before she was old enough to have anything worth auditing. She still took the credit card at eighteen and spent years on the minimum.

I financed a MacBook Pro at nineteen to become a music producer on a deal I didn't understand, at an interest rate I never checked. It started with a two. The laptop is still in my office.

Knowing better is not the same as doing better. We've both lived that gap — which is a big part of why we're actually useful now.

Oh — and Bindi's officially on the whiskey train.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Poor Decisions. Uh very spur-of-the-moment decision. Very, very spur-of-the-moment decision. Uh we've got this concept, so we've been doing finance butt neat. That's the whiskey kind of with that is money and whiskey is kind of the the tones that we've got. Uh Bindy and I just recorded a podcast and we thought it would be awesome to just do a quick poor decisions. And we're going to be doing this with every single one of our guests. Uh you're going to be differently placed in the room. So it'll be me, the guest. We'll do the show after the show, which is poor decisions.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

And I'll be nice and neatly off camera.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Your favourite part of the podcast. Um, and you'll be asking us some questions and discussing and mainly talking uh to the guest about that stuff, right? Like it's going to be a very casual kind of setting. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I thought we just did a podcast. Why don't we quickly A practice doing poor decisions? Um and B let ourselves actually be asked the questions and go through this a little bit. So uh first things first though. I I I promise I didn't have today planned, by the way, to do a poor decision. I do promise. It you know it was spare of the moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

Yeah. Okay. I don't know if I know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I don't know if I know that either.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Um but I actually I had already thought that if we do one together, a poor decisions together, that's the whiskey I wanted to do it with.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

And I really the why is I is it really bad?

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Is it very strong?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

No, none of those things. Okay. Why would that I'm not looking for you to react to it. I'm looking the whiskey's got to kind of represent you a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Right. Oh, right. Yeah, that's cute. Yeah. Yeah, how poetic. Yeah. Tell me.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

So well, I don't think you'll have that sentiment I thought. Um I was really shocked once I tasted this whiskey for the first time. Right. And not the not reflective yet.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Um, tell me when it starts.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Uh I think Morris and Rutherglen, like to give you a bit of background, they are sherry makers, like fortifying winemakers, right? And so they they create the whiskey, they put it in these uh fortified wine barrels and let it sit for ages. And from a taste perspective, I was really just like, this is incredibly well made, well balanced, some of the best whiskey I've had. Um, and I've had a lot of whiskey. One of the things I love is they're Aussie. That's good. And you wouldn't tell from the taste profile.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Is Aussie whiskey not good?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Uh no, it's good. It's just, I think it for me, my experience has been it varies between uh conceited and they haven't chased after excellence, they've just marketed well. Right. And just, hey, we are we're just good. We execute, we're not doing anything fancy. Insane. Yeah. Uh we're not having to sell barrels as fake investments to then get sued. There's a particular company that's never gonna be on this webcast uh podcast. Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Um But I the whiskey world is bigger than I thought. I didn't realise there was so much to it.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, oh this yeah, this I think the the company was trading insolvent and they'd sold investments to like you owned a barrel. And I was straight away, I was like, this is weird. No, like if this was actually a thing, why is this Australian company in Tasmania suddenly discovering it? And there was just there's been a lot of stuff out about this since. I don't actually know what was 100% true, but yeah, I think there was some liquidation practition liquidation kind of going on at one step. It was just a whole mess, uh Ponzi scheme accusations, like it was just it was crazy. Um yeah. We actually went to their they had a bottle, they had a shot where they sold like a bar in the valley a few years ago, 12 years ago. Uh correct me if I'm wrong, Julian. Um we went there for Julian's bucks. I didn't realise how expensive the whiskey was, and three people ended up buying a glass, and I had to buy Julian a glass, so I spent $90 on two glasses of whiskey. Yeah, it was not worth it. Nine months later I've discovered a bar in the in West End, which is just my go-to. Cobler, cobbler, shout out. It's like a speakeasy vibe, which I love. Yeah. Um, so yeah, one of the things I like is it's finely balanced, and I think you are someone who likes to be finely balanced in how they appear and uh are approaching the world and take a really centre calm approach. These guys do a great job of balancing the and bringing out the flavours and everything that they want to. And you wouldn't tell that they're necessarily Australian, and you're very Australian. And uh because of your name, Bindi, I've had certain people think that you're Indian. Yes. Yep, yeah, um, Italian. Okay, yeah, all the time. All the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

I used to have a um a nose ring. Yeah, and I couldn't I couldn't go out without people completely thinking I was Indian.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. My mother-in-law was convinced, and I was like, no. She's like, she is. So yeah. Is that a did I do well at that? Yeah, yeah, I'll take that.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Yeah. Yeah, definitely could have gone worse. I'm actually I've been distracted for some of it because I'm just wondering how you got such a nice ice cube and where it came from.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

But I'll I have ice cube trays in the fruit. It's like really nice though. Like I actually have round ones that I'm gonna bring in in the future. My fridge makes those.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

All by itself somehow.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Mine, mine is like it's meant to be perfect for whiskey. Right. Spherical, clear. Yeah. Yeah. My fridge does that. Yeah. I paid way too much money on Kickstarter years ago. Oh goodness. So let's get in to some whiskey. Maybe in the future we'll pour these before, or you can hand them onto screen. I I I don't know. Yeah. Do I need to live pour? We're just discovering this for the first time. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

This is a practice.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I've definitely had some of this with friends.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

I'm I'm interested in the the fortified wine side of it. Like, do they use the barrels for the port and then they use them again for it so it tastes like because I love I love a port. I love a port. So if it has like hints with that, I'm bestowed. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I might order Uber Eats. I might order Uber Eats after this. Um so yeah, I there's water there if you want it, but we have got you. Nice. Cheers.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Oh, that's actually very doable.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I know, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:40

I really thought I was gonna cringe. I'm very, I'm very impressed with myself.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I I'm disappointed.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

That's nice.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, it's good, hey.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Hmm. I feel like when Mitch edits this, he's gonna be very annoyed with my eyes, though. Mitch. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

No, well, this is this is a show after the show. We're breaking the fourth wall here. It's Mitch light edits today. It but no, it's it literally I've got three of these. I was I had a membership to the whiskey club for a little bit there. Uh and then I started a business and had no money. And yeah, I discovered that through this. And did I tell you I counted how many bottles of whiskey I have the other day?

SPEAKER_04 8:23

You told me that you need a new room in your house to store them.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah. It's a real problem. I so I've been joking. Sounds sounds like an issue. Yeah. Um no, it's not a it just doesn't fit in the space properly. Uh and my aesthetic has moved since how I've got it stored. Yeah. I started storing it. And now the issue I've got is I just like it's a big it's a big project to change how I store it.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

So does it need to be kept at a certain temperature? Or is it yeah, it should be. So this is a thing. Um I grew up in a very big house like big brick home that had just ample space. And we had a bar, and let me tell you, my parents kept it well stocked. So there was always like a very specific place for lots of alcohol in the house that I grew up in. And one of the things that I found a consistent challenge in moving around homes is like, what do you do with your alcohol? Because it can't go in a pantry. Like I have a bar now, a little one. Not not not on my parents' scale, but I do have a little bar.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

I I'm doing a redesign. I don't think I've told you, I'm doing a redesign of the study at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

To figure out because I need to be able to edit and upload things from home. And we've got Starlink here at the office, it's great download speed, horrendous upload speed. And so we've got MBN fibre to the premises at home, so it's it's incredibly fast. I think if I got the higher speed, I'd get like extr like just insane upload speed. So I'm like, I need to start doing that at home. I like just started plotting around on our floor plan to see how I could do it. And I've redesigned the entire house. The entire house.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

This is this would be my problem.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah, and actually don't know where I put it. This is Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

Yeah, like I've I went that far.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah, just that's just planning the Ethernet.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Um Dan hates to see me come in with a tape measure.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, but he's the issue that he knows it's creating work for itself. He's a builder. Anna sees me walking around a tape measure and goes, What am I about to get a hole in? Yeah. Like these blinds that we've got in the office. The first, like, if Julian came in, my brother or Dan came in and did something to the office, right? I guaranteed they'd get it done the first time or second time perfectly. For me, it takes about six holes until I figure it out. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So there's quite often a lot of holes hidden behind things. There may or may not, and I will not tell Anna where this is, there may or may not be entire patches of the home that are destroyed. There is one window frame internally that is cracked because I didn't drill a hole for the first time I did one of these blinds at home. Right. So no, this is redesign. Yeah. Yeah. So move the entry to the side and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

Exciting. I love a little light renovation. And what I what I call light renovation is entirely different to what Dan would call light renovation.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So a friend of ours, a friend of mine, someone you know, he's spending 30 grand on a 41 meter colour bond fence, I found out. So it turns out I'm not doing a colour bond fence anytime. Uh goodness. But uh essentially with poor decisions, what we are doing is going through some poor decisions lubricated by whiskey. And uh yeah, really excited to hear some of the answers for these. But the first one, uh, and we'll do various kinds of ideas around this, right, with guests, different kind of scopes, and just have a bit of a laugh and chill. Yeah. Around it's not a serious thing. Like there might be really pointed questions, but it isn't meant to be catastrophic kind of decisions that you've made in your life. But uh I would love to know what well what is the worst financial decision you've ever made in Bindy Holland?

SPEAKER_04 12:38

It's it's hard to answer um because it's like I go straight to big ones.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

You don't want to upset anyone.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Yeah. No, um, no, like it depends. Like, I mean, I've made a lot of small financial decisions that were stupid, um, but ultimately washed out.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Like collectively, maybe added up to a little bit of a like a shopping sort of issue that I did just didn't need to happen. But but if I was to like look at the big ones, the big ticket items, probably what I would say my worst decision was is that I sold a house in uh 2015 and didn't repurchase. Like I anticipated I would rent for a little bit and then as and buy as soon as I could. We didn't buy again until 2021. So we were out of the market for a huge amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Um and I I Which is incredibly relevant to some of the stuff that we talk about. 100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Yeah, 100%. And like I'm actually super lucky because there wasn't massive, massive growth in that time. There was some, but there wasn't the huge one.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

So I did get back to- when did you move into your current place?

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Not till 2022.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

But you bought it in 2021. I bought it off the plan. Off the plan in 21.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

Well, it took about 18 months, nearly two years. So yeah, it was like roughly there.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And I I remember when you told me you were buying it off the plan and I was like, I'm about to go to Westpac. Yeah, I can't do this for you.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Um which still I will say it it humbles me that I was the first person you called to do that. Like it it I remember genuinely getting that call and going, like, you know some incredible lenders. Yeah. Yeah. I know a few. Yeah. Um and I kind of get like you don't want to deal with anyone the call sender and disclose that stuff, right? But it genuinely humbled me that you I was the one you called. Uh it humbles me that you're in this business, but that's a whole nother discussion. Um I think the with the context that we'd been lending in at the time, it would be a really bizarre decision to buy an off-the-plan property in North Brisbane.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Do you know what? How many times that went through my head? And 18 months is a long time. 18 months, two years nearly is a long time to be like up in the air about not settling on a property and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

With a really rapidly changing area. Yeah, exactly. And that market was going crazy.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Do you know what? It because I to elaborate on what you just said, we've seen so many of them go wrong. My first ever loan was an off the planet, and it went terribly, terribly wrong. And so I was like, I would never do this. Yeah. And for whatever reason, I thought I want this house bad enough that I will look into it. And when I I did, I feel like I did the world's best research. Like I looked into the developer and they were all like self-funded.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

This surprises me.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

They're all self-funded, right? So they're not, they weren't lending money to do what they were doing and then needing to like reap that back in or anything. They they had they had their very wealthy family, they had a lot of money. It was all self-funded, they weren't going broke anytime soon. So I've like took a bit of comfort in that. Um, Dan did loads of research on the area and what the town planning was and what could maybe devalue all of these things because I was so scared. Plus, we had like a decent, like a very decent deposit. And I was like, I feel like you couldn't be in a better position to do this unless you're buying it outright. Anyway, we did make a good decision. Everything went beautifully. It did take like like all of the plans, they they say it's gonna be done in five minutes and it's done in like six days. Like it's very extended, very long.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

That time frame was just I know that was a weird way of saying it, but six months, six years would have been the five minutes, six days. Yeah. So you've got to really extrapolate that up.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

That's even though this I would probably count as one of my best decisions financially was to buy this house that I have now. I cannot tell you. I did so much research and I was so confident, and we got lucky, very, very lucky. Because do you know what? In this the same like complex, the next stage, the builder liquidated and there is unfinished houses and all kinds of things going on. And so And now the developer.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

At the time costs were increasing rapidly and they were locked in. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

And so we I have never been more grateful that I actually have my house, it's built so much equity, like everything went right for us. But for the people, quite literally a few months after us signing contracts, they ended up in sundown clause and lost everything. There's an unfinished bill. Yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Just there is always a risk. There is always a risk. In a fast moving environment, sometimes those moves can work, sometimes they don't. I would say in Queensland more often than they more often they work than they don't. 100%. That was the other thing is like a lot of the ones that we'd had experience in were Gold Coast and stuff like that. Like um I've done a lot in Sydney that are probably I've got no data, but I guess that a lot of them have now been clattered incorrectly with all that disaster, right? Like scary. Yeah. And then there was that tower in Sydney that broke, cracked.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

But anyway, worst decision was staying out of the market for longer. I could have got back in sooner. Um the reason that we didn't go back in sooner is because we had this grand plan of trying to save for a deposit big enough that we would be able to buy like our forever big house, do like a lift and build, and and self-fund the full renovation. So we needed like all this cash because I didn't want to do construction loans and stuff. So we're trying to save. And then I saw the market getting away from me, and I was like, we're actually never gonna, if we don't buy now, we're gonna like really miss out here. So we ended up just buying what we could and it worked out really, really well. But I can't help but compare how much we spent on this house to what I sold the last one for, which was bigger and better. But I'm also talking um very different locations, like we're so close to the city here, which is lovely.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

So And also 10 years. Yeah. Now, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now 10 years, yeah. Five, six years. So through one of the most rapid. So, like, I think contextually, right? You sold in 2015, market did nothing till 2019. I just got in in 2019, and the attitude that I approached buying a property was I'm gonna lose money in the next couple years because inflation and pro like it's gonna go like this, property prices like that, not gonna keep up. I've got to invest into saving money, buy another investment property while they're cheap, property doubles every seven to ten years, we'll be good. Yeah. Little did I know that all hell broke loose in 2020, right? So um that's yeah. I I do think about you staying out of the market a lot. I know, and uh, you're not the worst, you're probably one of the best situations I've seen. Yeah, I came out. Horror, horror, horror situations. Yeah. So and I think though, like you had a clear plan. Yeah. And we should probably at some point break down the whole like we want to build and build a property and you know, make it our forever home and go bigger. And like I think there's always a wisdom to stretching for a family home a little bit extra to make it stand longer or last your family longer. But you always lose money, especially builders and chippies, like you will lose money by investing time into your own home, yeah. Because you're not building someone else's home and being profitable. Yeah. It's just business, like it's literally just a business knowledge.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

And there's only so much you can do at a weekend. Yeah, yeah. If you want to spend it like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Oh man. Um, my worst financial decision. So when I was 2019, um, and shout out Ben Sidel, because he did not call me on this at all, my best mate. Um, we were just, you know, 19 dreamers, wanted to do everything, and I thought I was going to be a music producer. And thought I could really, I just needed the right tools to be the best that I could be. And so I went and financed around eight to nine grand. The laptop is actually down there. Eight to nine grand of financed. Yep. Map cringy already pro with all the specs, which just honestly, even the cheapest laptop in this office is so much better than that now. Hilariously. And I got all the tools, I got all the music producing tools. I'd actually be interested to see if they would honor the old purchase these days. But I got all the tools, I got everything, and I financed it with BOQ Finance because I couldn't get an interest free credit card because my credit history wasn't good enough. So it was Yeah. I was 19. Um I lost my job in from real estate when I was 21 in 2011 and I still had that there. And that was the first time I remember fig trying to figure out what the interest rate was.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Okay, yeah. So you were literally going in fully blind. Yeah. This is a thing, and I saw it so much when I was in a two, by the way. Branch land. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Um, yeah, branch land. But how many times have we got statements for cash converters?

SPEAKER_04 22:30

No, yeah, I mean like young guys in particular, if they're offered a loan, they will take it because they want a motorbike or they want a jet ski or they every young guy wants something they don't have. I feel I feel very seen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Pretty sure I had a motorbike when we first Yeah, I think you did.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Um I would also say, and there's a like to your point earlier, there's a lot of little ones there. Um so one of the other things I did was when I we first met, I was a digital change agent. So I was in the change management project, and I'd I'd gone and bought a car because I needed to get around the whole of Sunshine Coast, North Brisbane, up to Harvey Bay. Really cheap. It was a good decision the car I bought. What I didn't do is I didn't take the car allowance I was earning and the extra pay I was earning and pay that car off. Right. And so there's just like there's a lot of little things like that around cash flow managing. And Anna and I didn't know how to talk about money at the time then. So like there was a bigger piece there, but I think ultimately like that uh when I lost my job from real estate, I got fired after the like one year to the day, like July 17th in 2020, 2012. On the 17th of October 2012.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

2012. Huh? 2012. Yeah. I got fired from real estate 2012. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I got the right decade. Yeah. Um I started at Combank in personal loans. And I started actually seeing how bad personal loans could get. And I got more personal loan debt. Um, but no, I actually started cleaning things up. By that time I'd paid off the MacBook, uh, done a lot of things there. My I had a car that died two weeks before our wedding, so I bought a motorbike, like there was all this stuff, and I'd just become too comfortable with debt by that point. Yes, that's true. Because I'd recovered from it. Yeah. Um you know, we got married in 2013. Yeah. And it just like it was really I call that the bad financial decision because I got too comfortable with debt and managing it and cleaning it. It like set a precedent. Yeah. Yeah. That took me many years to figure out.

SPEAKER_04 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

And thank goodness I never took up. Like it was a cultural thing at the time where you joined the bank and you got a 15 grand credit card.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Yeah, it was. They gave me one. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

And thank God I didn't do that because I got five and it was six and a half. Yeah. So it's now I have that exact same credit card still at a limit of two and a half. Yeah. And I can't remember the last time.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I I will spend on it to hide Anna's birthday presents. It's tomorrow Anna's birthday. I will I'll like don't look at the credit card. Don't look at the credit card. And I'll pay like I literally will pay it off. And I just the only reason it's there is because we don't pay an annual fee for it. Like, I probably should close it because it literally once a year I'll spend on it. That's it. Um, but yeah, I just think that comfort for debt for young people, young blokes especially. Yeah. But yeah, for sure. Um what's the most underrated financial action that you think we see people take?

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Um I think how I would answer this is that I'm definitely getting Uber Eats, by the way. There's probably like bigger and more exciting ones, but the one that comes to mind is it's underrated, just understanding how much you can do with the money that you earn. As in you like everyone's always eyes on the next promotion, eyes on the next pay rise. They they like get very upset if they don't get a pay rise. I remember when I when I first was uh joined the bank was 2008. So that was GFC year, right? And everyone was blowing up about the fact that they weren't getting their pay rise.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

You had a job, guys.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

I know. We were all very, very fortunate, and I didn't know why it was such a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

I've been told slight tangent that there were like weekly emails coming out, like your job is safe, you're not alleged. There was. Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

There was, and uh to the bank's credit, they did a really brilliant job of doing it. Like that um that no pay rise year meant that nobody lost their job. Yeah, which is brilliant, like for for what it was. Uh I think, yeah, it was handled, it was handled well, but everyone was really upset about not getting a pay rise that year. And you know, I see that a lot. Uh having led a very large organization of people, pay rises are like people live and die by them. And uh in some cases that's been really valid, and in other cases it's not. But um, what what I mean is is everyone's got eyes on how do I make more money, how do I do more things, what's the side hustle I need to do. But in actual fact, what's underrated is if you're earning an income, there is waste in what you're spending that you can that you can pick up on and and like reviewing having a budget, reviewing your finances, even just like doing some some like reflection on what you have spent money on that maybe you didn't need to. The amount that you can pick up in just like discretional spending, if you save that, that pays off so much quicker than wishing or trying to get a pay rise or trying to get a promotion. Like you can actually do it yourself with what you've got half the time. So I think, yeah, I to sum it up, I think having a budget, being really clear on what you're spending your money on and how you can like put some away.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

I think mine to double down on that would be literally just reviewing your monthly transaction spending account and actually getting really clear as to what your bank account structure is. Yeah. Um like you know, weekly, monthly, yearly. Yeah. Like it's it's that simple. We add a groceries account in because uh Anna and I both pay ourselves monthly. Um and so it's just to know that our groceries, there's a a budget allocated that's not mixed in with everything else. But uh to actually know what you spent last month. Um I went and visited family members last year. When was that? When did I go to Melbourne? October. Yeah. And I went through after that and just had a look at, you know, our spending for the month, and it was highly inflated. Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah, I spent a couple grand more. Like I was in Melbourne travelling around, doing stuff. Eating was actually double what I thought I'd spent.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

And it's this it was no big purchases, I hadn't bought anything massive. Like I'd I'd taken family members to dinner, I'd been really intentional about enjoying that time with certain in particular family members, Mitchell. Um, but it was also, and you know what? My Nan is going to watch this. Nan is going, and I love you, Nan. Um, she's she's gonna love that. Uh Nan watches N comments on everything. Um, yeah, she's yeah. Uh I'm pretty sure I've posted stuff on social media with Nancy. Well, she's sitting in my chair. Yeah, yeah. I would like to put in my chair. Sudoku Nan. I'll I'll let Nan sit in the chair. Um it's like every Christmas she's up. So I'm like, come in and do Sudoku in the office. It's yeah. That's cute. It's I've never seen her quieter than when she does Sudoku. It's like looking into a mirror. Yeah. But no, it's like I was really intentional and I was like, this we spent double.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Like, and that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

And and that could but that can go on in people's lives every single pay cycle. Like every pay cycle they have that. And they don't know what's getting away from them. Yep. Um until you really sit down and have a look at it. And there is so much waste when you look at it. And you can change you can make changes that have huge impacts in what you do with that money, as in whether you're saving it or putting it off a loan, which, as you know, the graph goes 12 years off, things like that, when you put a couple of hundred extra onto your loan. By doing that, you can actually achieve that kind of success with it with a home loan or savings account or whatever without having without feeling a huge change in your lifestyle. And I think that's massive when you realize when you learn that lesson is like I don't feel like I'm living in poverty, like I'm still eating well, I'm still going out, I'm still doing things, I'm just intentional now.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah. Yeah. And uh like I just think the massive cope in our culture of like, you know, yeah, the reality is uh the whole core memory thing of our culture for kids is like actually you can fix your spending really easily. Yeah, it's three things. Is it a want or a need? Yeah, or is it something where you should be saving? Let's attach percentages. Facts are your friend, let's do that, and you're gonna be really better. And do you know what a need means? It's not use kids' swimming lessons. My kids are in swimming lessons, right? But and your kids do not need swimming lessons. What your kids need is a roof over their heads, yeah, and food in their mouth. Yeah, and a parent that's not stressed about finance. Like there's let's actually talk about what your kids' needs are and stop using that as an excuse to fill your dopamine bucket. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, great mum. So I could oh man.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

I'm gonna move you on. Yeah, please. Um what is a bad financial decision that you've made that you've actually recovered from, and what did it teach you?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

I oh man. Um kind of all snowballs into this. I chased money because I need to pay for IVF in my career. And it I've always done this thing where I chased leaders and I always wanted to work for the best leaders that I could, and I justified the decision by going and working for our friend Tim. Yes. Um that unraveled slightly, I got a new leader, all that kind of stuff, and then I chased comfort for the first time in going to join another mortgage broking firm. Um and as part of that process, I unlocked equity from my home and used that as a seed and investment to start that like cash flow that process. Yeah, and it was just how I did it. I was ignoring my financial reality through that period. Yeah, like I was used to earning very comfortably six figures to your point about income and everything earlier. Like I had a very, very comfortable salary pre-kids with Anna and I, two professionals, like we were very, very comfortable. And so I was trying to bury my head in the sand, ignoring that financial position, and the bank account was slowly emptying. I hadn't done what my accountant had told me to do, and so it just had snowballed and it lit a fire under me almost three years ago to start when I had to start funded. And that has kind of been momentum around cash flow, and everything that I've done has come from near disaster. Start like just going, I know nothing else but how to get people approved for home loans. How do we turn this into something bigger than myself? Because right now I need to fund $2 million each month so I can at least pay my bills and pay my mortgage and feed my family. Yeah. And it kind of just snowballed from that because I buried my head in the sand for a year and a half. So that was big lesson. Huge lesson. I was I was driving to the gym every morning and there was a homeless family camp down the road and that just terrified me. Yeah. Like yeah. Yeah. That was a fresh reminder every morning. Like, I'm closer than I'm comfortable with being to being these guys.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Yeah. Scary. Scary when it's not just you as well. Um got other people to think about.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Well, and I think mentally, like I I look back now and go, did I not think I was worth actually taking care of financially? Because it was like, I can't let Anna and the girls be homeless. Like, you know, God is not gonna let Anna and the girls get homeless. But at the same time, like, aren't I worthy of not being homeless?

SPEAKER_04 35:00

So so again, that's a guy thing. Like so many guys think like that, which is why when they're single and on their own, when they're young, they get into all this debt because they're like, I'll figure it out. It's only me that I'm impacting. Yeah, who cares if I stuff it all up? Uh let me tell you your future wife does.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Then you get in charge of like, let's be honest, like when when you go through having kids, you are in charge to like you've got human beings that are surviving off a wife. Like, you've got to step up. Yeah, you've got to step up and help manage the finances. One of the one of the things that used to always annoy me in branches when a couple would walk in and one of them would go, I know the finances, they don't.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

And it's like wrong. Like you're taking pride of this, but wrong.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Like both of you should be across it. Because I guarantee one of you could get sick tomorrow. Yeah. Just with the flu, one month of bad decisions, and you're in a bit of trouble here. Yeah. Like, let's both be across it.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

Yeah. Um, for me, you actually just reminded me of it just before. Is and this is so um, like so disappointing to reflect on because I was I was raised by two bankers. Like, I should know better. Um two. Two. My dad was in the bank. That's how they met. They met in the bank. Yeah. I'm a bank baby. Um I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah. So and your mum was a bank lender, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:24

She was bank lender. Yeah, yeah. Um, and my dad was like the finance guy in our house. Like, he was across everything. He was the decision maker, and he was really, really good. And from like the youngest possible age, he like like like your kid's age, right? He had me getting, you know, how you used to get statements in the mail and for your Dolomite account or whatever it was. Side note, I was always so upset because you know how Dolomite stuff used to come with like a colouring competition and you could send it in and win something or whatever. I was never allowed to do them because my mum worked in the bank, so I wasn't allowed to enter, and it was the worst. But anyway, he would chuck all the good stuff out and give me the bank statement, and I would have to go through and highlight my interest. And like I said, I'm your kid's age. Like, what are they? How old are they?

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Four. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

Just turned. So I was like doing, I was calculating interest to make sure it was correct. He made me check my interest in the interesting. Rony, that this will be a work in progress.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

But Clara, we're on to it. I'm gonna get this for you. Rony will take some time.

SPEAKER_04 37:21

This is the upbringing that I've had, like to check to check that my interest was calculated correctly on my six bucks of savings and stuff. Like it was insane. And also I was taught very, very well if you don't have the money for it, you don't get a loan. You save up and then you buy it. And if you know, you have to be able to afford it. But anyway, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because do you know what? When I joined the bank, they offered me a credit card and I took it. And I thought in my head, I'll probably never use this, but someone said something about the points, and I was like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

And would you believe you've got an awards with half half the interest discount and uh annual fee waived?

SPEAKER_04 38:04

And I ended up at whatever point in my life being tempted by the fact that it was there and buying something that I would now say is outside of my means. Or buying multiple things. I don't even think it was one thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

But I Was there one thing you bought that you can remember that was no? Wow. No, I can't. Like it was just what you put all my motorbike gear on it.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? There may have been some. I was with James then, so there may have been some motorbike gear going around. I don't know, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

We had a s uh an amount of money owing on this card that I like had to pay off in increments.

SPEAKER_06 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

And um for so long I was just paying like the minimum payment on it, like terrible.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

And oh my goodness, like I'm actually as as embarrassed as I am of that, I'm very, very glad that I learnt that lesson when I was 18 because I will never buy anything that I like outside of like big purchases, like houses and stuff. I don't get I don't have debt for stuff. I just will not do it. Like whatever I want, I will just save up for a I will that's I will dump with zip pay. I've never used that a little bit. I feel like there's a place for some of that sort of stuff, but like my bed.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Like just like literally, we bought our bed on the zip.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Yeah, and I was like, Is there fees for it? They say fees? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 39:25

And this is actually this is a bigger discussion. I am a hundred percent convinced that a lot of the inflation we've seen in our society is because vendors and like merchants have to include the cost of using those products in their fees. Yeah. So I think there's a huge sign of this interest-free debt that you're you are paying for it.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

And if they don't offer it, someone's gonna go somewhere else where they do. Like you have to be to be in the market, you've got to offer it.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

I will literally buy it and then two weeks later pay it off.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

Yeah, I'm I don't I don't I'm not educated in that. I don't I don't know. But like like we have done a whole bunch of landscaping, we've done renovations, we've done all of these things, and I've been so committed to like self-funding things because I don't for a second want to buy something that I don't have the money for. So it's it's actually served me really well, but I did for a long time struggle with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah, intriguing. I yeah, I've dabbled with zip pay. Uh never zip money. I will never do after pay. Oh, is there a difference? I thought that's what you were talking about. Yeah, no, after pay is like the pain for, like PayPal has the pain for and stuff like that. And I think zip pay is more the interest-free, period. You'll buy something for three grand, you get interest free. I will never buy like a you know, solar system interest-free. Like, if I can't pay cash for that sort of improvement to my house, I can't afford it. Yeah. That's my that's the reality that Adam and I are in. We there's been little things, it's like it's interest free, we've got three three grand. I'd rather keep it in the offset over here. Yeah, like it's it's little things. What I won't do is I won't do the credit card spend monthly clear-off or anything like that. Oh, really? Because I don't trust myself with it.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

See, I do that and I do that effectively, but I am also working on a budget, like I know how much I can spend on things, and I I am very, very like strong in not just doing it.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

We're getting there, I just don't trust myself. I don't, I just don't.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

I never did, and that's how I saved all my money. Like when I was saving for house deposits and all that kind of stuff, I didn't have any credit card. Yep. Um, and I really prided myself on that that I didn't have any debt, no credit card, no nothing. I all I have to do is stick to my budget and save my money. But then I was sitting in an airport for a really long time once, and someone that I was talking to introduced me to the concept of um quantus frequent flyers points and how you can basically take holidays for free. And then it there's this whole rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Old boss, Mitch Watson, different Mitch Watson. Yeah. Uh digital change agents. Right. He was in the leadership team of that. Yeah. And he and his wife Tara just like coupon is for it.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

Yeah. That's me now. And do you know what? I actually I actually do quite well. We went to Singapore for nearly free.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I don't think you have your leave projected for the year, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Yeah, but like literally, Dan and I went to Singapore and it almost like I think like we spent like maybe a thousand dollars of spending money. I just don't I think But we other than that, it was all free because of points. If you do it right.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

And like and it just I just don't I don't trust.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

I Well, that's the thing, you gotta be strong. You gotta make not not make purchases that you wouldn't otherwise make. It's only things you're already gonna spend the money on.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

We're in a good rhythm. I don't I don't think our rhythm is built to have a credit card. I just it kind of makes sense, right? Monthly, but and maybe it's because I've been one bad month could sink out like it's not the reality anymore. Maybe I'm still in that mentality.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Yeah, well that's I had I took years to come around to having a credit card again, so maybe.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Um anyway. I've got this last question is super fun. Uh when you think about millennial culture, what's your like financial ick?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

I'm gonna I've got two things. First one is YOLO. Statistically, you are not going to die tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

And the amount of money I've seen blowing on like, YOLO, yeah, I'm gonna go out for the drinks, yeah, gonna go on that holiday, gotta have that experience. And it's just it started in the twenties and it's crept into now going, I've got to give my kids core memories. Yeah. Gotta go to Disney World Lane, whichever one. And it's just bull crap cope to fill your dopamine hole. Yeah. And we are dopamine addicted. Like I I have an issue with dopamine. Yeah. It's like and I know better than some. I'm well aware as to what it it's like, but people just bury their head in the sand and go and buy a million things on Timu or art marketplace or fill in the gap. Like it's just it's getting ridiculous. And it's there's this crazy cope that's put in and it like the big the biggest thing that really, really like not ick, but angers me is when people falsely use their kids to justify their own spending. And so oh man, I'm gonna piss people off here. Um it drives me insane that someone goes, I just wanted to give my kids a good Christmas. It's like you have put their lives at their whole financial security at risk by going into debt this Christmas and spending all your savings.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

And in reality, kids will have a good Christmas anyway. It's Christmas. Yeah, they can't have a bad one.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

No, they've got a day off. It's Chris get them two presents. They they've got wrapping paper. Yeah. Like it's just, it's just real and then it's like the next thing they say is, oh, oh, but you know, like I'm trying to give them the Christmas that I never had. Yeah, that's that's you never had a bad Christmas. Yeah. I don't realise how tough my like I chat to friends who they're like our church community would deliver presents to us the night before. We didn't realise how bad we had it, like how tough it was. And we weren't in that position growing up at all. We always had presents and stuff like that. We were probably lacking in certain technology things that others could afford.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

But full credit, my parents weren't willing to run the debt game that I think others were. Uh, you know, the step dad and stepmum and and mum, like they weren't willing to run that debt game. Yeah. And I think the reality that I see right now is it's really easy to have 40 PayPal tran uh after pay transactions coming out of your account every Wednesday to every second Thursday to match up with pension day to get all your kids' stuff in, and it's just a cycle that spirals out of control. Like it's just it really involves.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

Because you see other people doing this sort of thing. That actually that that leads into my ick a little bit. And it was it's around like it's around like keeping up with the Joneses. Oh but mostly if I was to be really specific on it, it's this like designer handbag situation. And like, don't I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie, I have I have the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

No, but also we had a conversation last week where I brought something to you, and this is gonna air after. Yeah. No, but I mean like I'm not buying myself a designer bag, just to clarify. But that's not what I'm talking about, just to clarify. And like I've done this, I've actually I've been through this. I have I have nice things.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Yeah. I have nice things now that I could not afford, is the reality. And that's what I mean, is like, and and I never fell into this. I ha whilst I have design some designer things, I never fell into the trap of feeling like I needed to buy it for to like a handbag to sit in the corner of my Instagram post on the table. Like because all of my friends had them and in the group photo, I would look like they were born out. Like that's not the culture I have in my friend group, thank goodness. But like this, I just see it all the time. Like so many people for their Instagram feed buy these shoes, bag, whatever. Yep, just just to portray themselves in the same way as their friends. And maybe it's the like old lady and me coming out like as a mum of people who are trying to fit in really bad right now. But I just like like all I tell my kids constantly is it doesn't matter. It doesn't age girls. It actually doesn't matter. Like it who cares? It's like the in your life you're gonna have real problems. But this is not it.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Do you think it stems from this whole like I remember each year, and maybe this is a me problem because I was never cool growing up at all. Each year I'll be like, This is the year that I become cool. This is it. I get to reinvent myself this January, like and it's almost as though we're just trying to reinvent that little like constantly to go, maybe I can but I just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

There there is a value attached to fitting in, and I don't that icks me. I don't like that. Like, I certainly have been there, I've been a victim to it in in some ways, but I just I at this point in my life I just don't care if you're not be bothered.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

My life would be easier sometimes if I could be bothered.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

I'm not talking about having nice things. No, no, because I'm talking about having particular nice things to fit in with other people.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

There is a trap that you can fall into by buying lots of cheap crap that breaks often versus saving and buying something once of good finesse.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

And I'm always like, well, that's a balance.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

There's a real tension for that combined with using debt to you know kind of do that. There's a real tension there. And I I've always loved good finesse. Uh my brother teases me for having as many bags as I do. Like, I've got a lot of different bags over the years. I'm like, I've got this new use case for yeah, I've got a lot of bags, I've got this other one I want to buy, which I don't want to show you because I know you're gonna tease me. Um but it's like just it's never come at the cost of anything. It's always been how can I like finesse or scheme, I think has a bad connotation, but how can I work through my budget and my financial reality to get this, as opposed to well, like let's burn it all down because I want this thing tomorrow. Yeah. I think that's a real difference. There's a big difference in that, yeah. Yeah. How's the whiskey? It's good. Yeah?

SPEAKER_04 49:51

Yeah, I like it. Yeah, awesome. I'd come back to this bar. Five out of five.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Well, thank you. Uh I can do a mean whiskey sour.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

That's I feel yeah, I feel like that would be g the next step up is some sort of cocktail.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Because well, no, we have not got a kitchen that can allow that. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Trust me. I know. Microfiber towels instead of tea towels. It's not a hack. It's not a hack. No. Yeah. We we probably need to get some funded financial.

SPEAKER_04 50:28

I also so just uh momentarily ago was like the first time that I've properly investigated that kitchen. Um I've never I never go in there for anything. And I say why? No. No. Um but can I just say in my brief look through all of the cupboards like half an hour ago, I have never seen more of a boy's space. It's a shed. Brian made a shed and it's like a tool cupboard, and it's got it's literally a Bunnings tool. I know. Yeah, I know. It feels tactically like a toolbox. I know it's not even hiding in like but but even just the stuff in it, like this has been done by a boy. Did you find my shelf? Probably.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:14

Uh is it the one with all the coffee in it?

SPEAKER_01 51:16

No, you were looking up top. Oh, I was looking everywhere. No. In the shelves on the right.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Yeah, there's a shelf of just protein bars and gum. Yeah, I did see a bunch of stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just very blurky in there.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Yeah. Nithu's not a very feminine presence.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

Maybe she stays out of the kitchen too. I don't know. I've seen her there a couple of times.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Oh goodness. Well, our first poor decisions. Yeah. We had a whiskey.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

I'm excited for these. I'm excited to see other people. These feel fun. Way more fun.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Yeah. Yeah, these I I think will just actually be a really fun just pivot to see see what a lot of different financial experts actually think about certain things. Um, and I think we want to do business as well and have the team around us that we authentically like. Yeah. Um and you're gonna get like there's a few different personalities that I can't wait to get into this poor decisions thing. It's gonna be really hilarious. Um so yeah, thank you for joining me today, Bindy. And that's Poor Decisions. Cheers.