I'm a Broker. A Buyer's Agent Still Took Me to School

Learn how to access equity, calculate your borrowing capacity and connect with Alex here: https://linktr.ee/alexanderwatson

You'd think a broker wouldn't need a buyer's agent...
I've helped fund over $500 million worth of property — thousands of Aussies into homes and investments. And Colin Lee still took me to school. This one's the live framework we run with clients: the four P's, why you make money when you buy, and how to buy with intention instead of hope. More importantly:
Property isn't the side hustle. The strategy is. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Donkey Boy was uh it's right there. It's right there at the back of my head. Just yeah. So yeah. You look good like that, Alex. I think I don't work in a bank anymore. Uh I don't have people like Bindy to impress to get a promotion. So you're impressed. Now I just get abroad. She just brings me down. Oh goodness. Should we start? Let's introduce. G'day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Finance But Neat, where we know that even the finest and fanciest looking bottle of whiskey or the prettiest home with a nicely renovated exterior can sometimes just be a polished poop. Sorry, Mitchell, this is a polished turd, let's just say it. Um joining me today is the incredible Colin Lee. Uh, Colin, you've done something that I think most people in this space haven't or won't be able to do now. Uh not only have you built your own portfolio a lot like prior to starting this, you built it pro with your clients over the last few years as well in just incredible ways. And it's been an honor to kind of watch that happen. Uh I don't think you're just a guide, you're somebody who's walking that journey with your clients, and it's been inspirational, funded finance. We want to walk the journey with our clients. It makes it much easier to help them through those decision-making processes. And I'm just really excited today, is not just the story that isn't finished, but just getting some of the real actionable things that you have to give to your clients. So, uh, mate, the intention, the excellence, everything you do is just always right there. So thank you so much for joining us. So, today, we're getting into what it actually looks like to build a property portfolio with intention, not just buying and hoping, but making a deliberate move with clear strategy behind those decisions. And if you've got equity sitting there and you're not quite sure what to do, this one is absolutely for you. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna cover managing a portfolio. Really excited for that one, Colin. Uh, we're gonna go through the ingredients of a property portfolio. Uh, we'll see what you are bringing out for that one. A bit of decision-making framework live. And so, this is what you and I do with our clients when we work together, and I'm really, really excited to kind of show that because it's it's a lot of fun. Yes, it's a lot of fun. My I just get so excited when we do those conversations. And lastly, we don't want to spruk regions. I don't think that's what you and I really are about. I've seen some just some stuff that's just a bit icky, yeah, I think in the industry. Yes. And so, what I want to do though is just really go, where wouldn't you invest and why? And so we're gonna land on on that. But first, my favorite segment, because it always gets some fun stuff: barbecue chats, the conversations you have at the Barbie. Colin, why would I get a buyer's agent when I can just use realestate.com.au and make offers myself.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Thank you, Alex. Uh, and it's so good to be part of this uh conversation with you. Um, you know, I I will admit, and you may not know this, Alex, but my first encounter in terms of property was actually with a broker. I remember my mom said to me, Son, if you want to build wealth and you want to create something for your life, you wanted to speak to professionals and experts. So one of my first, I would label them as a mentor, uh, was someone that reframed everything for me. He helped me to understand what my goals are, what my desires are, what what is your objective in life, and then kept me on this the narrow and straight path. Uh and he kept the main thing the main thing because he was able to elicit what my goals are. Now, a lot of of that conversation was about what I want. And so that's helpful. What I hear a lot in the barbecues and these chatters is what people don't want. There's a lot of whinging, whining, complaining. You see, I came as a migrant 26 years ago, Alex. And when I came, I remember distinctly thinking, this is such an opportunity for a migrant. It's a fair go, it's a country where you work hard, you play hard, and you you you grow, you know. And so hearing these things really just it it bugged me because we had very little. I come from a developing country into a country that's vastly developed in many, many ways, and yet people are so ungrateful, you know. And but I I get it because these are real problems, but they're first world problems. So I'm just trying to look at the perspective, and it was very hard for me because in these barbecues, you know, they whinge about the government, about policy changes, about a whole bunch of things that are not working for them. And it's a lot of talk about what they don't want. What I prefer is to talk about what I want, which my very first broker reminded me time and time again. And he's questioned, What is your vision? What is your goal? What do you want to do in your life? And he just kept reminding me what I wanted. And so that was the goal, that was the chase, that was the fight. Um, so I mean, a lot of it is obviously quite general, but uh, there's a lot of pessimism out there, I think.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Uh, and so I just try to be a voice of reason uh in these conversations at the barbecue. Not that I have many, but do you remember what the question was, Colin? Uh no. What am I hearing at these?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

I said, why would one of the things I hear a lot and I want you to enter is why would I get a bit buyer's agent? When I can I can just jump on midstate.com.au, right? Like I can make an offer, I can negotiate, the agents are right there. Yes. Why do I need a buyer's agent? Because I think from my perspective, to add that in, there's there's a lot of you know, uh penny pinches to your point around what's happening, like you've got to save that penny to make a dollar, and you know, all this kind of stuff. Then you've got the opposite extreme of I've got to spend money to make money, it's just justifying bad spending habits. Of course. And I think quite often people are just you know are kind of between those two. Yeah. And the middle path to me always seems a buyer's agent actually is that wise investment.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, I mean, for the purposes of this, I I try to not define myself purely as a buyer's agent, but I get what what the question is. I'll probably define myself more as a mentor, a coach, and a guide, uh similar to this first broker that I had known. Uh so why would people need a buyer's agent? From a practicality perspective, people are time poor, right? A lot of uh people that come to me, uh, sometimes it's six months. I had a client that's just, you know, six years into this journey and said to me, Colin, I just I I'm well intended, I'm ambitious, I'm excited when I first started. And I know looking back in the last six months, six years, whatever that may be, with the best of intentions, I just did not get into the property market, which I'm regretting. Uh so too many people try and do it themselves because they're penny pinching or trying to save on professional fees. Um, I I, you know, I mean, if the analogy is if if something happened to your to yourself and you need brain surgery, you're not gonna go and try and do it yourself. You can't, you know. So I just I just believe in having the right people doing the right thing because they're intentionally doing this all the time.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So if you're time poor and with the best best of intentions, you're not actually actively doing it on a day-to-day basis. So you get distracted, and then you know, a month turns into two months, into six months, and you just never get it. So it's a bit like having a personal trainer. Yeah, you know, sometimes you know, and I'm one of them, right? You know, when it's start of the year, I'm like, let's go. I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm gonna Your PT is a recruiter now, by the way. Is he? Yeah. Oh, well, there you go. Yes, yeah, Oscar, big shout out.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, love Oscar. I was like, What Colin, you still look fantastic. Well, obviously, he gave you a few.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

So see, Alex, I'm a self-motivated guy, but even for me, I know that if I don't have someone on my case keeping me accountable, I would I would not necessarily be committed on a on a week-to-week basis to to do what I'm intending to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Look, we can't all be self-motivated with exercise. Uh and no, look, to your point though, I I think my rationale quite often, and 100%, you aren't just a buyers agent, but it's just kind of the thing that people say. Yeah. For me, it's always I make very intention, a very intentional point of going, this is a property advisor. But at the same time, I've seen Beck, especially your team, execute the negotiation process. Yes. And there's a big and buyers agents, you know, certain um certain entities, let's just say, or groups, have kind of taught their buyers agents to sell one way. And so I love separating you from that group and going property advisor. Thank you. Because the buy the buyers agents uh will go, I will find you all the properties off market. And what I've seen actually is the wins that your team gets and other great people in this space get, is they're able to walk in and actually beat the Joe Blow investor, you know, negotiator off the space with a professional negotiator. And that's what a real estate agent is a professional property lister and a professional negotiator. Correct. And it's separate even more. Yeah, they have like a principal agent might just be listing, and they've got a team of guys who run open homes and they just focus on negotiating. Correct. And so to think that you can buy three properties in your entire life or and not saying like it sometimes comes across a little bit cocky, it is, with all due respect, most people's parents uh just have bought three properties in their life over a 30-year period. That's right. How on earth are they in 2026 able to help you negotiate on a property in real current day techniques? It's just not real.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

So well, times have changed, Alex. You know, what what was 30 years ago, 20 years ago, let alone two years ago. No, two years ago. Yeah. And unless you're in it, you just don't know what you don't know. Yeah. Uh so my my point is, you know, I remember my first mentor and I said, Look, I want to get into this whole property space. Uh, and it was on my second property. I remember she said to me, She has four handfuls of properties, so she's more than qualified to, you know, to share her wisdom. She says, Colin, unless you've seen anywhere between 50 to 100 properties, don't you dare put an offer in because your knowledge base is just not quite enough. So a lot of the fear I see a lot of people, they they're well intending, they may get to the point where they go and you know attend these open inspections on the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

And then after that, it's critical time. You've got to put an offer in, you've got to be in it to win it. Putting that offer requires a degree of faith, a bit of a bit of knowledge. You can't just blindly put an offer in and expect for you to get the offer. So too many people under-offer, but the real fear, Alex, is over-offering. Because agents know how to elicit a particular emotion where there's a fear of missing out, and that property is, you know, I've got offers over $1 million. Look, if you put in 1.1, I reckon you'll get it. And after six months of looking for property, you go, oh my God, I just missed out on property after property after property, and then you're like, oh my goodness, all right.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

And you throw your whole budget out. It's the exact analogy I use. Yeah. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

So if you don't know the real value of the property and you're overpaying for the property, that's when you set yourself back. You know, they say you make money when you buy the property and you get a good deal. Or, you know, buy the property for what it's worth at the very least. But first and foremost, make sure you buy the property. And too many people, they don't know what the parameters are in terms of what is an investment-worthy property. So you're going blind. You're you're hearing all these back to the barbecue chatter. Oh, you know, off the plan is good. Oh, you know, rural and regional is good. Oh, this is, and then you get overwhelmed with all this information. You go, what is real? Yeah. What do I really do? Now, here's the thing though, Alex, there's no one size that fits all. I always say that. Just because something works for another person doesn't mean it'll work for you. Yeah. That's why I wouldn't say I'm I'm more a property investment advisor. I am, but it's reminding why you're doing what you're doing in the first place, and look at your finances and make sure that you're not only to able to purchase the property, but hold it for the long term, and then build upon that, you know. So that's critical.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

That's also I love that because you've just teased two, maybe three of the things that we're gonna discuss today. And I I wanted to have this conversation with you.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

You know I'm a good I'm a good teaser.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah, I'm a tease. Too good. Um too good. Uh and so look, we we have been building up into accessing equity, buying, upgrading. We've got this framework which you've seen a few times around two pillars, borrowing capacity equity, yes, that allows you to purchase property. Yes. Um and I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to like I I believe property in Australia is the greatest side hustle that you can have. Like, I absolutely am down on that a hundred percent. And I I think one of the things that, you know, uh can be quite simple is to go, well, I just don't want to be a landlord though. And while property can be this great thing, people just get really stuck on this landlord concept, don't see the hidden cost of doing things like Uber Eats or other side hustles around depreciation on cars and all that kind of stuff. But my question to you is what are the things an investor can do correctly to make sure that landlord position is way more palatable from day one?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

It's a good question. Um, I think it requires a reframing, you know. A lot of people have this idea that, you know, owning a property uh and making money or building wealth is is a bit of a taboo thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

And I remember one of my mentors saying to me, Colin, do you know you're providing housing for people? You know, so you talk about it being a side hustle. Actually, it's my main thing. You know, it's what I walk and talk and breathe every day. I came here 26 years ago with very little money as a migrant, and I remember the great Australian dream. You know, you work hard, you invest it in the right places, uh, and and and you grow your wealth through investment properties. Um, but I mean, just just to kind of rewind back a little bit, I was running my my my own business back in 2004 until 2011, and it was a great business. Yes, that was the the youth empowerment uh uh you know company that I was running. It was amazing. But the truth was it was not a scalable and successful sustainable business. I had at the end of the 2011, I remember looking at my bank account, I had a couple of thousand dollars in it. I remember I worked so hard for my money. What's wrong with that, Colin? I spent it. I spent it on silly things, to be honest. I mean, I yeah, I was uh leading. I know I don't believe that. That's I wanted to impress the Johnson, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

What snapped you out of that? Because you are not like that now.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I'm not, but look, when you're in your 20s and you know you're trying to have this bravado, and you know, I was you know, I I wanted to live the life. Uh, you know, I worked hard, and then when you come to money and you don't have investments uh that that you know forces you to to pay a mortgage, yeah, what do you do? You just spend it, you know. And so there was no for me, taking on a mortgage is really a force savings plan. And I didn't have that. So every time I come to money, I'd spend it on on things that will boost my ego. It's not me, um, you know, but I I talk a lot about stewardship, and really what what you know stood out for me is yes, you can enjoy your life, but how are you gonna be blessed to be a blessing? And you know, it's it's more than just living life for myself. I was very selfish back then. Do you I know this is a bit of a no no, yeah, but I I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

So, like to kind of bring it back then, um, because I think the for-saving things, uh first-time buyers in branch, and Bindy will attest to this, like uh, first home buyers in branch would always walk in and go, How can I lock my savings away so I can't access it? And yeah, you know, that that thing, and even Wes, you know, my business coach who who you know, um he always says sometimes you just got to get bigger needs. Uh we've got clients who I I know that we've given them a goal and they've locked in and gone, okay, this is this is we're cleaning everything up, we're getting really clear, we're getting a lot of clarity over what's coming. How much was that three to five year goal kind of driving you towards being owning a property portfolio?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

I mean, it's it's it's what got me motivated because it was short-term enough, but not that long away that I go, my God, you know, if I got to keep saving and putting aside 2,000 a month to achieve my financial goals in 10 years, I probably would be a lot less motivated than that. So I think you've got to have some short-term goals where you can see beyond just the day-to-day living and cast it out five years, 10 years down the track. Uh so have short-term, medium-term, and long-term goals. Do you mind if I just go back to that? Yeah, so so coming back to the idea of being a landlord or or maybe landlady, it was a psychological shift because when I was running my own business, I realized that was a hustle. It was hard, and I did not invest in anything else, you know. So it was just full focus in running my business. And reframing was when I attended a property sort of seminar. It was, it was I was doing so much research and I read so many books. And one of the books that really stood out, I don't agree with all the principles, but it was rich that poor at. You know, is having the mindset that being an investor is an important thing because and he said when you are a landlord and landlady, you're providing housing and opportunities for people that will never be able to take on a mortgage for various personal reasons. So that reframing, you know, was important, but it was also something that I was very motivated to do because I wanted to create a better life for myself, for my family. I wanted to retire my parents. It was a very strong goal. I just didn't know how to do it. And when I realized that property is a really good game to do it, it's fair go for all. It's not rocket science, but and by the way, being a landlord and landlady is not all rainbows and sunshine. You know, too many people have these two extremes of oh, it's it's really bad, too much responsibility, too much headaches, or landlord lady, this feels good, you know. But I think there's a bit of a middle ground in it, you know, you need to take responsibility, you know, as landlords, knowing that you're providing housing, but you also got to look after your future, and that's why I invest in properties.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I I think it's a really interesting point. So I've got family members because on my mum's side at least, you know, she was a first-generation Australian born here, dad born in South Africa. So like we we have a little bit of that migrant history, a little bit of Asian heritage on my end. Uh from Indonesia. Um, but no, like I I my auntie Willie, you know, she used was telling me last time I saw her a few years ago that when they moved to Sydney uh or you know, migrated here, uh, she was saying that they were living in timber packing crates in like a I think eastern Sydney suburbs in the beach. Like that that was their housing. And so I think quite often it's missed and uh sadly it's politicized as well. How tremendous of a an honor it can be to be a landlord. It is um to bring it to something practical. How large of a how large of a role does a property manager make in in the successful landlord journey?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

You know, I used to be a property manager myself. No. Yes. I was I started out as a junior property manager. That was my foray into property. Wow. I had couldn't change industry from running my own education-based business in 2011. I remember saying, goodness me, if nothing changes, nothing changes. I wasn't stewarding my money well at all. You know, and and my time and my talent. I felt everything was a bit of a waste. And I thought, God, I gotta do something very different. And then I remember at this at this seminar, I sat next to this gentleman, uh Joseph, who was a a uh he was a what do you call it? A uh refugee as well from from Vietnam of all things. English wasn't even his first language, you know. English is my first language. Although when I first came to Australia, this is not my normal accent.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I used to have many accents, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

I used to talk like that, you know, uh Alex, when I first came 26 years ago. And uh and I remember uh Joseph was even stronger, his accent even stronger. And I thought, what? If this guy can come here as uh as a refugee, and then he he was telling me his story. He had five investment properties in the city. You can get out of the act and money. I'm I'm stuck in it. But I'll never forget how how inspired I was. How how I thought, gosh, you know, um I was so inspired, I said, Joseph, can you just teach me? I humbled myself to go, you know what, I perhaps I don't know at all. You know, can you help me? And and then he tells me his story and how he's invested in five properties. He was only two years older than I was as well, Alex. So by all accounts, we're exactly the same place in life. In fact, he had a lot less going for him than I have. Yeah, at least I came here with a couple of thousand dollars. I had three suitcases, whereas he came in a boat with nothing with his parents. And then he tells me he runs a property management business and a sales business. So then I started thinking, geez, maybe maybe this is my my career. And and I just felt a prompting. It was like a an attraction, a calling, whatever you call it. But I was so drawn to to him. And that's why there's a lot to be said about being a true light, being being an encourager. He was very encouraging, he was very he he he just supported me where I can as a as a friend. And then eventually I worked for him. I and to be quite open with you, I don't know if he's listening, I would have worked for him for free. That's how much wisdom I got from him. Every time I chatted with him, he inspired me. I was in awe and wonder. And I remember saying to him, Justin. I love people like that. I know, right? Yeah, just they just sow so much into your life, and you go, What you sow is what you reap. Yeah, you know, and and he sowed him to me, and I said, Look, you know what, I want to sew back into you. And so he took me under his wing. And he says, Start off as a junior property manager. I remember my first thing to do. He gave me a list of these are all the tenants that are in arrears. Your job is to make sure that they are, you know, they pay their rent on time and be on time. And then the second thing he said was, these are the the routine inspections you've got to do. Do you know how humbling that was?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Just walking into people's houses that correct.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah. And then having to take photos and man, it was just humbling. So, so you know, coming back to your question of you know, property manager. I by the end of it, in two years, I was given a small little portfolio. So I got promoted to be a property manager literally within six months. And I remember him saying to me, Colin, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So, in order for you to really grow this, uh, because I was also a BD, I was I was, you know, going out to talk to landlords and landladies to encourage them to get their properties to be managed by us. And I remember he had this black book, Alex, and he took notes about every single person that he ever had a conversation with. He knew their favorite coffee, their favorite tea, their puppy's name, their daughter's name. Is this where you got that from? This is where I got it from. And he was diligent. And you know the thing about him? He cared so much about the other person that he will say, Hey, you know, how's Anna? You know, how are your two girls? And it was it was like, you're listening, you know, you're present when I'm talking. Too many people don't listen. And that was the problem. So I did exactly what he asked me to do. And because I built such strong relationships and rapport with these landlords, I grew my own portfolio from 20 properties under management to over 220 properties management within two years. That company has not broken that record till date. Would you believe it? I 10x his business. That was because he sold into my life. He saw something in me that I never saw in my life.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Back to the question, Colin. What is a bad property manager? Like, what how do you know a good property manager, bad property manager? Because you you just nailed what a good property manager is. You care about the people in the house, you're compassionate about people in arrears, you chase after those conversations, take care of the land. That's a good property manager. On the flip side.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Well, I mean, let's just say I I don't I don't think you should do it yourself. Yeah, you know, unless you're managing 10, 20 and it's your site hustle, fair enough. I do have an investor that manages his own portfolio. But for the vast majority of us, it's not something that we we we should be doing just to save you know a couple of percentage every week. So for me, I I have all my nine properties managed by people. I could manage it myself. Don't forget, I've got a background in property management. I could probably close my eyes and manage those properties, but I don't want to do that because I know a good property manager is someone that takes care of a client, takes care of a tenant. They're diligent, they're passionate about what they do. So let good people do what they do best, play to their strength, I play to my strength. I don't want to get bogged down about this tenant's been late for a week. Let's go call the tenant out. So there should be someone in between you and the tenant whilst you're managing the property. The other thing I'll say is there are two qualities about property management that I look for. Number one, you have to be prompt. How you deal with me in the first place, they always say how you do little things is how you do big things, right? How quickly do you get back to me? I and I interview them and I and I watch, I leave a message, I see how quickly they get back to me. Because my assertion is that if they take forever to get back to me, they're going to take forever to get back to the tenants.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, I mean, if they like if you just put your, you know, they want something from you, right? You're their client, you're the you know, person who's paying them. If they're taking ages to get back to you, yeah, like what are the when there's a tenant on the other end, it's just great, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

But you can only do that if you're passionate and purposeful in what you're doing. Otherwise, you it it it it's not natural. Yeah, and that's why, Alex, I mean, I'm I'm not trying to edify you for the sake of it, but you know, I've spoken to a lot of brokers, Alex. You are prompt, that's one thing, you're quick, and you can only do that because you're passionate and you're purposeful. Because if it's a drag, you're gonna take forever to get back to me. Yeah, not just because I'm a good referrer. But the second thing is you've got to be professional in what you do, in in how you you know, how you present yourself. Uh you know, because to attract good tenants, you've got to be a good property manager.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah, yeah, 100%. What I feel like this is a slow creep, and this is important at the moment, uh, I think with rental caps year on year, you know, and how you can increase rent and everything there. Um what like what is that? And is this a property manager thing? Is this people getting not really understanding how to play the game of landlord? It just seems that rental yields just don't like they're just kind of on the slide at the moment because I can't keep up. So how do you as a landlord, property owner, make sure that your property is I'm gonna have a confession, okay?

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Uh when I was a property manager, and that's just human beings. We we will take the the the road uh with the least resistance. Yeah. So if your tenant is up for rent after 12 months and you know that the rent is gonna be $800, uh, it should be $800, that's the market value, and the tenant's paying $790 a week. You kind of go, you know what, I'm just gonna renew the lease because it's gonna be a lot less headache than having to chat with the tenant and say, hey, look, the market rent is $800 a week. We're gonna increase your rent. By the way, there's no paperwork, you've got to re sign the lease, et cetera, et cetera. So a lot of people are not, they don't have their finger on the pulse and they don't realize that as passive as property is, you still need to take charge. It is a side hustle, but when we're not, I mean, what, maybe every six months, 12 months you get a rental renewal. And that's why for me, I'm more than a buyer's agent. Every 12 months I check in with my clients, and you know what I look at? What is your rent? And then you know what I do? I compare that rent in terms of the return on the current um uh value of the property against what the sub-average is. If you're below sub of average, that means you're underperforming. So it's just good stewardship. I mean, would you like to be underpaid? No. So, and and this goes back to the cash flow question. Every dollar counts, every dollar saved is a dollar earned.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

So not only are you saving, but you've got to also be providing, you know, your your cash flow so that you can increase your borrowing capacity and therefore you can continue building on. Because I I mean, you're a broker, you would know it's your income from your job or your business, is what the banks look at. But the second one is your rental income. That makes a big difference in terms of your services.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

The difference between 4%, 3.8% is an incredible amount of borrowing capacity. Absolutely. And if you think that's just borrowing capacity, with uh like you know, banks are taking 10 to 20% off your rental income, they're measuring a bunch of things. So if 2.02 of a percent decreases your borrowing capacity, how much more extrapolated that is in real income? Correct. And I think that's a massive, massive thing that I'm seeing at the moment. To your point, we'll we'll look at a new property coming in and that'll be performing okay because it's vacant. They get a chance to re-let release it, and the rental agreement and everything says that. Uh, the next thing that we're doing is we're definitely going to get down on the wide shot, Mitchell. Uh I feel this is so serious. I want to entertain. Mate, we're breaking the fourth order. But no, like it's it's definitely something. Trust me, wait till you see what I'm about to say next. Um it's definitely something that I think is a bigger conversation around making sure that you're not falling too in love with a landlord piece of providing, you know, that's their home, they're good. Maybe you've got a property manager saying one thing in your ear, all this kind of stuff. Yeah, it's actually going to your point, and we talk about this a lot because I love the idea of stewardship. You take a third person view of your finances. Correct. You're looking down, it's not correct. Emotional, you're looking down, how can I manage this well and move on from there? You remove the emotion. Correct. You mentioned something interesting in there. Uh, you talked about compet competing. He was only a couple years ahead of me. Yes. I knew I I I was like, oh Colin, because sometimes the competition stuff does drive a lot. Yeah. Uh, I don't know if you know this about me. I was a chess champion in primary school.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Uh sometime later, maybe about a week or so later, or after the game, I realized, I was telling my dad about the game, uh, I realized that I'd actually moved myself in and out of check about five times, and my opponent had never realized, and no one had ever told us uh what was going on. So these days, these days, and Bindy doesn't know how to play chess, by the way, interestingly. These days I'm strictly a snakes and ladder kind of guy. Did not see that coming. Come on, Felix. He's more intelligent than that. What I want to ask you, I've watched too I've watched too much Magnus like just Rainman in his head. Yeah. Oh mate. What is the lurking snake in a property portfolio that most people don't see until they've landed on it? The lurking snake.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Wow, that's an interesting question.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Um, you know what? Well, what is checkmate? Like, what is checkmate in a property to put into parlors? Your bag of goodies, Colin.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Talking about chess, this was planned. Well, kind of. But I just want to just quickly share, Alex. This is a chess thing um that my dad gave me many, many years ago. And it was it's it's very special. It's all wood, it's got tiny pieces. Actually, it's got a checkerboard in there as well. And I this is the same chessboard that I uh play my you know. Do you think that's a checkerboard inside? Checkerboard? No, it's a backgammon.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah, but you said it's got a checkerboard inside.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

It's um I was like, you know, chess and checker have the same board.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Checkerboard, chess board, same thing. Um, and and actually, Alex, I use the chess analogy all the time with my clients. Uh, like you, I was a chess champion when I was a chance. But don't think like me. I was so competitive. And I was a champion. I had medals and all that. And uh, and anyway, at the age of 12, um, I remember at the end of my primary school, I had to go into my high school, and uh, I was so competitive that I said, you know what, I'm gonna play with these 16 and 17 year olds. And of course I would lose, you know, and I would cry because I'm like, oh man, you know, like I keep losing. And but that's how I got better because my dad says, if you want to play better chess, you just play with the better players. Yeah. And so that's what I did, right? So I'm just coming back to me.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Following side note, we're following strong on the chess thing. Because Riley, who you know, yes, he did the uh an upgrading uh episode with us recently, and he he had a whole chess analogy as well. Yes, I'd love to see you two going out of your chess.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

I reckon that would be I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

That would be scary, but yes, sorry. Uh so the lurking snake.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

So the lurking snake, um you know what I think it is? I think people give up too easily. I and and you know, Alex, I'm gonna have I'm gonna admit, I've got nine properties, I could have 11. And I'm not saying this impress upon you. I I am that competitive that I I you know I think if if I could steward this better, I think of course the more I'm blessed, the more I can be a blessing. But I sold two properties prematurely, and that was because I gave up too quickly. I was emotionally impacted by what was going on at the time, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna de-risk myself and just sell it off. So I sold prematurely. I mean, if I had those two properties now, I you know, I'd I'd be a lot better off. But I mean, how much do you do you have? So, but that that same thing, even for an expert like me and someone who's such a seasoned investor, even I am, you know, I'm subject to all these worldly events that you can't help but you know think about.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And and that becomes real, you know, at the peak of COVID, which is when I sold it, I remember everyone talking. There was this chatter and noise. My God, the market is gonna tank by 20%, 30%. Did you know I read one report that said 41%? If my seven properties back then lost 41%, I'll be broke. I won't be talking to you today. So those fears become very, very real. And I and I just didn't have a voice of reason. I didn't have someone to say, hey, look at the facts, look at the fundamentals and the foundation of what constitutes property growth. And it's a lot to do with supply and demand. I didn't know the facts. Can you believe it? This is this is uh, you know, I was up in property industry for you made an emotional decision, Colin Lee. I did with regards to property. I was I made an emotional decision, and uh, and I think that's that's the snake. The snake is you don't know why you're getting into it, and as soon as things get too hard, you give up. You know? Where were those properties? Uh one of them is in the valley, believe it or not. I know what type of property was it? You don't want to know. It's you had an apartment. I mean, you live in one of it. In uh in Fortitude Valley, it's it's one of my, you know, talk about one of the the big learnings. As as well as it did, I sold it prematurely, you know. Um but you know, there's a blessing in the disguise of all that I I reconsolidated my portfolio and I I buy more properties that that that fits within my portfolio.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

How quickly did you repurpose the cash that you got for?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

It took me a little while. Okay. It took me a little while because I I had this fear of getting back into the market. I wanted to be a bit more cashed up whilst I was growing the video. Did you give it a rough time frame? Uh probably took me about a year and a year and a little bit. So roughly when did you sell?

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Uh 2020. So you jumped back in in 21. I jumped back in 21. Mid-late.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Mid.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

So I think that's interesting, right? Because um it was psycho. Yeah. It was a crazy market to jump in. And I think uh But it was out of COVID already, you know. Yeah. And there was Queensland at least. It was already, you can already see there's a good and the market, but the market was going crazy. And so I remember going at the time, just going, Well, this is crazy. And it's why we why I started doing back then my original content was Friday Finance, because there was a lot of stuff going on, a lot of noise happening. There was, I will call them buyers' agents who were you know making offers 60, 70, 80 grand above what the next offer was just to get them like be able to advertise we got this property in three days after engaging the client. And you like you've repurposed, you probably lost a little bit of growth in that 12 months because it did in mid it it took off. But it's it like the bulk of the growth since then you've gotten. So I think you realize your error quicker than you probably give yourself grace for. Yeah. Um and you knowing you, you probably put into something that's done pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Actually, it's a blessing in disguise. Because my my my fundamentals and and look, you know, would that change? I don't know. It just depends on depends on on a whole range of things, including the incentives, and you know, because I do I think if Australia, as long as you're doing what's right and ethical, and you can minimize your tax in a in a great way through negative gearing and capital against tax concessions and all that, then of course I'll take advantage of that. Um, but you know, I I remember you know selling that property and going, oh man, I gotta repurpose this sooner or later, or so I'm gonna go backwards. My money wasn't working hard for me. So my one of my fundamentals is I I tend to prefer buying houses on a decent block of land because of the three key pillars. We'll get to them in a minute. We'll get to that. We'll get them to set up.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

So I repurpose it to the land, basically. Yeah, I've got a follow-on question. I just quickly, my thing, and I think it's really pertinent today, is for years I saw, and I actually think it's decreased the last few years, which has been nice, but for years I saw people coming to me going, I just need to buy this for tax reasons. Yeah. Um and that was a somewhat scary thing at times. Yeah. Um to just go like you you don't understand, you know, you're not in it for the right reasons, you're just in it because you need to pay less tax. Exactly. You are going to be doubling down on fear with that amplifying. Yep. Um, and the fair weather investors go in and out with FOMO. Uh, a lot of people probably wouldn't have invested in like 2021 because they're like, oh, this the ship's already sailed, I'll wait till the other end. It didn't it didn't stop. The other end is five, six years later. Like it's, you know, and we've got a little blip in the radar at the moment with the market around the country with everything going on. I guarantee in Queensland, not guarantee, I can't guarantee that. I would not be surprised in the next 12, 80 months heading into the Olympics if Queensland is just going crazy again. Yeah. So like it's just, you know, when you take a long-term stewardship view, you make those moves consistently. You're not driven by, like, for me, just the tax thing. It's like you're gonna pay tax regardless. If you've won, you've won. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Having said that, Alex, it's an incentive. You know, it allows you to increase your borrowing capacity, you know, minimizing your tax in a in a legal and ethical way. So I say, why not take advantage of that? I mean, we already pay so much tax, we're one of the top 10 most taxed countries. We're number eight right now, can you believe it? Maybe after this, you know, whole thing, you've got to do it. I can. Yeah. So but that shocked me. But uh, you know, on the flip side, there are all these incentives and that encourages investors and and you know, and entrepreneurs to go out there and invest for the future and build wealth. So I look, I I'd rather see that as a blessing. Yeah, it is, but you know, you still got to make sure you steward it well. And I think the the danger for a lot of people is getting into the property market for that very reason, which is it's not the fundamental. Negative gearing is not too many, there's too much focus on that because cash flow is important, but that's as equally important as capital growth and equity gain.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

So buying the right property in the first place is critically important.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

And capitalism wins, like supply and demand. Yes. You know, if you're actually making moves consistently, um, and we'll we'll do another podcast, I think, about this where we go through, you know, a little bit about Anna and I's plans over the next 12 months, how this just doesn't like how they've changed, what's changed. But the reality is like I was never it it might slightly change the asset price that I invest in just with borrowing capacity, the the reality there, but it's not going to stop me actually investing. So what is the ladder? What is that thing that you know people are missing that actually amplifies a borrowing capacity and might lead you in a purchase property portfolio? Yeah. I think just tying that into the ingredients that you've got around making a property portfolio.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

I love it. I've got another show and tell. Can I do this?

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah. Shout out to Kingdom Financial Group, too. Love those guys.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

All right. This is this is my thing. For those that don't know, I used to be on Master Chef in season one. Here's the uh here's the look at this. It's got your name on it, Colin. I didn't know you had this. See? And uh no, I got it from Etsy. I didn't make it to the top. Yeah, I did. I didn't make it to the I did not make it to the top 25. I was top 50 of Master Chef in season one, and I was very envious of the people.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

I'm not gonna let you get away with that.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

I got all this, I was so envious of all these people that got their apron, and I thought, I'm gonna get one myself. Anyway, listen, I love you so much. You crack me up. Um I I I I tell this story about Master Chef, and and by the way, this is this is the wooden spoon. This has got a lot of very sentimental value. This is Us. Oh, yeah, it was double puppet, I was sure. It was a my mum used this to smack me, but my grandmother taught me to cook with my tongue, with my taste buds. My grandmother had never had any recipes about how she makes these most beautiful curries. I mean, just thinking about it just makes me salivate. It's it's the smell of the of the onions. What's your favorite the laksa, man, the nyona laksa that she makes. And she taught me how to make this beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

I'm going to get let you get to your story in a second, but the year was 2000, January. I have a scar in the top of my head from this trip. I we'd rocked up after a traumatic trip drive from Melbourne to Brisbane. Dad was moving to Brizzy. We'd done a road trip down to visit my Nan for Christmas, come back. I'd tried to dive into a tunnel at a McDonald's playground, hit the top, slipped my head open, blood everywhere. I remember driving into Breezy. I can still remember on the highway blood, blood alert, picking dry blood out of like trigger alert, is what I would have said. Out of that. Um mum's gone, I've made a curry. I've and I'm like, I'm so happy because mum spent some time in Malaysia growing up because my grandfather was based there for the RAF. Uh, she is, or you know, I think a quarter Indonesian, and you know, there's been my grandfather used to cook curries, and so like my favorite food group is curries, and I was like so excited. Little did I know that mum had been a little bit rushed for time that day getting the house ready for us to get back. Uh she had bought a tinned laksa for some unbizarre reason. Something she's never done. Like the woman cooks makes flour for herself, gluten-free flour for herself. So I don't know why. She made this laksa.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

And then gone, it's not hot enough because she has no chili. Yeah, I've seen you add fresh chili. You saw me add fresh chili and go, man, that's hot. Um my brother and I were just doing laps between the kitchen table and the fridge to go and get milk and apricot yogurt. So yeah, love laxab. That was yeah, come on, man. Side movie.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

That was I grew into it, Colin. Thank you. So, you know, like your mum's curry, like my grandmother's curry. Unfortunately, I'm not still not able to recreate that curry. I I get close enough, but you'll never get to the essence of it. But one of the things my grandmother taught me, there's a few things, but one of the things is she she oftentimes used this spoon and she says, Here you go, Colin. I want you to taste this. Tell me what you think of it, and then I'll tell you what I think of it. And so she taught me to cook by my taste buds, which is a skill in itself, because you've got to know what it tastes like. So then she says, Well, you add a little bit more salt, a bit more garlic powder, a little bit more of this, and then eventually you get it to the point where it tastes what it should be. But she also taught me something else, and she says, To create the most masterful, delicious, delicate dish, uh, you've got to have three key things. And she reminded me that you need the freshest of ingredients. You cannot cook a good laksa. You cannot cook a good chili crab, by the way. That was one of the dishes I was hoping to cook for the finals if you don't have the freshest of ingredients. You know, so that's really important. The second thing is she said you need the right technique. You can't just put everything in the blender and mix it all up. And then put in the pot of oil and cook it. And so there's there's a technique about how you chop the onion, what size, when you when you know how you you mix it, how you grind it, you know. So there's a particular technique in it. And thirdly, is the timing. You know, you don't just don't put everything in. Um, you've got to methodically put the the garlic first and then the onions and then the chilies and then the glangal and then so it's it's it's a process, right? Now, coming back to you know this recipe and and and this whole thing about building a sustainable and successful property portfolio. I think building a successful property portfolio, and actually more importantly, a sustainable property portfolio requires ingredients, requires some key fundamentals. Uh, and and one of the fundamentals I always talk about is you've got to have a strong enough purpose. Because, like I said back before, otherwise you're just gonna give up. But the other thing is where there is a will, there is there is a way. Most people don't know their will and they don't know their why. So figure out your will and your why, and then the way will come. Therefore, you become a lot more motivated, you become a lot more inspired to to earn more, to add more value. And then here's the thing, right? Your earning and your income at the moment is directly proportional to the value you're adding to your organization, to your business, to your clients, to your stakeholders, to your referral partners. You just add value. You know, so just learning that in itself is a big thing. So, so have a real good reason why you get out of bed every day. And oftentimes when I talk to my clients, I I just keep circling back. Why are you doing all this in the first place? And I keep reminding them, do you know I've got a client that I started just when I started my business? She bought one property with me, and I remember I remember looking her in the eye and I said, Carol, why do you want to do what you do? And she had tears in her eyes. She was working for the Children Cancer Institute. One of her greatest passion was to find a cure for children's cancer. Wow. Because it affects three children every week. Like three children every week pass away from child-related cancer. And she wanted to find, she was a researcher, PhD student, worked for the Children's Cancer Institute. And I thought, wow, how beautiful this. And I remember one of her wives, she said to me, Colin, you know, I just foresee myself in 10 years that one day I'll be able to go back to CCI and work at this to find a cure for children's cancer pro bono. I'll do it for free. And with that in mind, I thought, you know what, Carol, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you to just get onto this journey. So actually, what I did with her was I reminded her, I showed her what income she needs to be earning, what equity, what savings, and and just you know, reverse engineering, beginning with the end in mind and reverse engineering her plan. She's got six investment properties literally within six years. Wow. You know, she was that motivated because she had a fire in her belly. She knew why she was doing what she's doing, and she's well on track. Literally within four years, I reckon she'll be able to go back and say, you know what, I can do this for you for two days a week. Can you imagine? So, but she had to she had to pay the price and make the sacrifice. Yeah, she had to go down a different career pathway, she had to find something that can add value because you know, with all these research companies, it's very dependent on government funding, et cetera, et cetera. But she's someone I distinctly remember. So having a strong enough purpose will help you get there. And then you've got a whole bunch of things in terms of the ingredients. Now, uh, just coming back to your question in terms of what constitutes a successful, sustainable property portfolio. Too many buyers' agents will focus on the two pillars. I have the four pillars, just very quickly, these are the ingredients and the philosophy. The first one is very quickly, it's about buying the right property in the first place, right? The right property means there are certain metrics and parameters that I look for that I know that that property will tend to do well. One of the things I look for is, and and look, this may change, but I think the fundamental is this that I'd rather buy a property with good bones. Good bones that I can somehow add some value down the track. Uh, but the property is only as good as the proximity. So this is the four piece pillars, right? The right proximity is similar to the right location. Here's the thing: you can buy the worst property, but in the best street, in the best location, it'll still do well because you can replace the property. But fundamentally, you you don't want to do that because that'll set you back a little bit if you've got to do a whole bunch of renauds. And so making sure you buy the right property is important. Uh, and the right parameters to me is, you know, in terms of proximity, I tend to prefer locations where there's a gentrification from you know a very largely investor ratio suburb into more own-occupy ratio suburbs. Because we know that suburbs with a higher own-occupier ratio tends to attract own occupiers, and therefore the suburbs, the streets, the playgrounds, the parks, they tend to be better maintained. It feels safe with this less crime rate. So that's another fundamental. The third pillar is assuming you get the right property in the right proximity, a good buyer's agent should be able to get it for the right price. You know, the right price means paying the right money for the property. Uh, and just going back to this, you make money when you buy the property, so you just don't want to simply overpay for the property. Now, we treat each of our clients money as though it's our money. So if I'm not willing to pay a million dollars for the property, I just wouldn't encourage my client to pay a million dollars because it's not worth it. Now, I'm Asian, I love a good deal, I love a good discount, and I'm a haggler. I I I I love if I could, I would. And that's why Asia is my marketplace. I love it when I and it's just the thing to do, right? And so it's part of my psychology to negotiate. And Alex, this is what I do every day. As long as I'm not, it's not I'm creating a situation where it's win and real loss, as long as win-win, and there is a bit of a balance in that. So getting the right property in the right proximity for the right price. The fourth pillar in terms of how you can accelerate your property portfolio is to get it with the right potentiality. That's the fourth pillar, which I think a lot of people miss. And look, admittedly, I've got a secret weapon in my business. Um, my wife, you know, Rebecca, she is a qualified architect, she is a professional in her own right, top 10 leading women in property, worked for a property developer. And three years ago, I was like, honey, you know what? The business has just taken off. I need some help. And it just fit like a hand in a glove. You know, she came on board, she became a head of acquisitions very quickly. And actually, she does a better job than than me because she has a different lens. She she looks at a property as though it's like she's got these X-ray eyes. She can see potential in the property. I'm gonna buy this property uh because I know I can convert this, I can extend this. And I actually actually, you know what? This this laundry area, I'm gonna convert into a second bathroom. So all of a sudden, you're changing the configuration of a property from a three-bedroom, one bathroom to a three-bedroom, two-bathroom. She can look at a block of land and just know the rules of engagement to know whether or not you can put a granny flat on it, can you put an extension, what it requires. So very quickly, we can ascertain the potentiality of the property, you know, just knowing the front edge, knowing knowing what is required for you to manufacture value in the property is great.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

It's a crazy advantage. And I I love I actually for ages, I was telling Bindy, I think, earlier this week, I didn't think that potentiality was a real world word, and I'd heard you use it so many times. Yes, um, it's an incredible advantage seeing Beck operate. Like it's uh it her work ethic is just insane. Like, she's obviously you've got your beautiful daughter, Ava, and your latest fur baby in the family too, who's name what? Louis Louie, that's it. Louis Lee! Uh I knew when you were talking earlier about the book, I was like, I need to remember the dog's name. Done. Um but like it's uh Louie Lee, gosh. Sorry. Uh it's a family member, you know? Yeah, we've got Scouty uh Detective Scouty Watson MD is her real name, I believe, is the cat. And then Duke is the Duke of Aspet. I'm an animal person, mate.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

That's another debate. Can we do Finance but Neat, cat or dog?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Cindy pretty much has a cat in dog form. Um I wish you were on cat. Oh man, I wish you were on shot right now. Um you can defend that in the post show. Um but no, the potentiality of it I think is so important. And I've seen that lead to incredible wins, not if the potential is realized immediately. Correct, but long term, and it's very hard to get the level of service that you give without like just the sheer bonus of having an architect. Um, I don't know if you know, I know this. Uh a mutual friend of ours, uh Mr. Chapman. Oh, yes. He, I believe, referred some clients to you that were like, hey, we need an investment, we want some long-term potential, this is what we're thinking, da-da-da, high net worth, great income, all those cool good things. And he came back to me and said, The job that he has done has made my life so much easier as their financial advisor. And that would just that opened my eyes massively because we'd been working together a little bit at the time, I think, maybe a few months.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Um, and I was just like You were still referring to other buyers' agents. I was trying to win your heart, Alex.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Do you want me to Mitch? I'm gonna send you the meme. I'm sending you the meme. I want you to chuck what I'm gonna send you, I want you to chuck it on screen right now and then defend yourself.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Look, everyone gets tempted, Alex. But but the proof of the pudding is you know who I refer to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Oh goodness. I'm biting my tongue, sir. Biting my tongue. Oh goodness, uh, Colin Lee. Action speaks louder than words. It does. It does. But your words are quite loud, mate. Um mentioned a bunch of stuff there. If we've got a client coming to us, they own their own home, they might have borrowing capacity or purchase power. I've done the assessment 900 to 1.1. When we start looking at, you know, we've got the four P's, we know what we're looking at, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Where is where is your mind going when I bring up the servicing calculator to go, hey, here it is. We've got maybe, you know, let's just go $1.1 million borrowing capacity to purchase or purchase price to buy an investment property. What are you looking at?

SPEAKER_00 54:11

It's a good question. I think I think that that is a healthy amount. Um I think that opens up to a lot of options, but certainly not in the major, major capital cities. When I talk about major capital cities, for example, Brisbane, Brisbane City Council in itself is constituted of about you know 60 to 70 different suburbs.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

It's one of the biggest LGAs in the Southern East.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

It is the biggest LGA, but I'm talking about the the ricochet, which is the the ripple effect on well, a million dollars is not going to buy you a decent house. Now, my preference is house, okay, followed by townhouses if if the house is is really out of the price point. So for a million dollars, you could probably buy still maybe a little towny uh in in the Brisbane City Council. But if I can help it, I the the type of property is probably critical. Uh, and simply because houses has the greatest room for you to manufacture value and add value to increase not only the cash flow, but also the capital, which is the equity in within the property. So my my I'm I'm literally doing a development at the moment, seventh on my seventh property in in Southport. I'm doing a reno on the eighth one in the ninth. So there's it's for me, I'm always looking at how can I spend a little bit of money to increase my rental and income and increase my my equity so that I can go back to you know to the bank and the broker and say, hey, uh this is the new numbers. Can you can you look at maybe now getting me into my 10th investment property? So all those little bit counts, right? So it is vitally important that you look at opportunities that you can add some value because too many people will go, 900,000. I'm just gonna go find a property that fits within that price range, but they forget about the fundamentals in the property. So my preference at all times is to look at suburbs that have not quite performed, but just on the fringe, it could be maybe two, three suburbs away. Um, and and then you you look at how you can you know establish yourself in those locations because you know that the next growth will typically be those suburbs that are on the ripple. Yeah. So without going into too much detail, but but just going into just because I'm based in Queensland, the vast majority of properties in in terms of where I see the greatest potentiality at the moment is in Southeast Queensland. So I I like I like the West, which is Ipswich, I like Logan, and I actually like Morton Bay. So those are the three areas outside of the Brisbane City Council. And for a million dollars, you can still get you know a relatively old house, um, you know, that that you can still manufacture some value on.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

What uh and so you chatting to the client around, hey, we're scoping where you're comfortable with the area, borrowing capacity around one one. Is it trying to see if there's options for two if we we cut down? Like what are you doing to kind of think about that long-term portfolio? Yeah, like if we go mum and dad, yeah, you know, kids have gone to to primary school, they've lost daycare fees, or they started kindergarten and they've lost daycare fees. Yeah. Um, man. Uh, because that like you know, Anna and I are paying 24 grand a year in childcare costs, right? Uh Anna works, she's got a career, that's a big expense. They're going to private school next year, and they're our cost is dropping again going into that. So you're getting a lot of people, mum and dads, a lot of millennials, kids are getting five, six, going to school, a lot of cash flow coming free. Yeah. Borrowing capacity sitting around the one-one. Are you looking at times towards that next property? Are you focusing on getting the best property first? Like what? Take us into that.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

It's it's a good question, Alex. Let me just say this thing, one size set fits all, right? I mean, I'm gonna just take off my shoe here. My shoe fits me because my size is eight and a half. If I say this this shoe fits me, but but you go wear it, it's not gonna work. It's just not gonna work. Yeah, and so I don't want to give general advice as per se, and I'm not giving financial advice. So one of the first things I've got to know is uh for a client, what is their what is their priority, what is the vision? And then we reverse engineer this, taking into account their cash flow, which is how much they're saving every week. Yeah, I need to know if they're good savers. If if we're gonna, if let's say their maximum pre-approval for a purchase price is $1.1 million, and they and they're not saving very, very well, then I would in in most cases, I don't want a client to to buy something that maxes out their their borrowing capacity. Although the banks have done a calculation and I'm I'm sure they've put a little bit of a buffer, you know, on let's say the the interest rate six and a half, they'll probably assess them on eight and a half, nine percent. So there's already some buffers into place, but I never like to go all out. So let's just begin by that. Now, uh for someone that is a good saver, I and if they're ambitious, they're still young, they've got a lot of prospects for growth. I'll edge as close as to the 1.1 as possible. Get the best opportunity because your potentiality for you to buy the next one is going to be a lot quicker, depending on your savings, and then we're taking into consideration some of the growth and the capital growth. So obviously that needs to be looked at. Um, so there's there's a few things in play. Um, one of the philosophies I like is is to make sure that you have a balanced portfolio, but also a diversified portfolio. So you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Uh, and the reality is at this point in time, for unless you're buying in Perth or Adelaide, where the median price is somewhere around 850 to 900, call it 950, whereas Brisbane now is sitting close to 1.1 as an example. So there's there's quite a bit of a difference in terms of each of those states in terms of the market. So for me, the philosophy is still to buy a house, but if you can't afford a house in a particular state, then we may have to look at another state or a different type of product.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

So you'd still prefer to get in a high growth area as opposed to chase us after the asset class of house.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

Correct, correct. I I still fundamentally believe that the right proximity is probably more critical than the type of property. So, so I think I think for me, the general rule of thumb is never purchase the absolute max price of your property. I want to just sit and see what your what your cash flow is. It's almost like we game plan it, right? We we we strategically and tactically look at what your cash flow is, what your earning capacity is, what your life you know priorities are gonna be. You may you may get, you know, you and your wife may be planning to have a kid. So if that's gonna stop you from purchasing next property in three years, then perhaps, yeah, let's go, let's go all out. Because that's you you're gonna have to wait another problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

You know, like if you're self-employed, right? And your business is growing, you know you're gonna have extra cash flow, yeah, but you're probably gonna lose a second income because you can have a child. It's like it that cash flow that growing business is gonna be repurposed to living. Correct. So that's a a great example. And then if you've got, you know, uh if you've got the ability, because for me, those two things are impacted by two pillars of borrowing capacity, equity. Yeah. I trust that when you buy properties for my clients, equity's not gonna be an issue in the future. That's proof is in the pudding. Uh the borrowing capacity is completely dependent on what the client does with their lives. And so I I've seen a number of times you go, Well, you want to have a baby in three years, let's maximize, or you're going, Hey, uh, you know, I can think of a current client at the moment, like I just I don't want to spend your entire budget. Yep based on the cash flow discussion we've had. I want to pull that back a little bit. Yeah, this is where I'm thinking. Yeah, and it's a strategy uh that I just I one of the reasons where I thought in 2018 to 2019 that property investing was broken was I didn't know have a strategy, I didn't have a thought process. The why was strong. I wanted to create wealth, I wanted to break my family uh out of a cycle. Like I've the importance of housing is so, so crazy. We've touched on it before, but my Nan has been financially set up so well because she sacrificed to buy a house as a single mum coming from South Africa with a 14-year-old in Chernside, Victoria. I still remember that house. My her her parents ended up being able to live in it for many years, you know, at a very, very reduced rent. And that's that landlord heart, right? That Nan still to this day just loves providing housing for people. Like it's such a great thing. Uh, and Nan is gonna love you on this episode, by the way. She is, yeah. You guys are you're gonna meet her one day. Shout out to Nan. Yeah, uh, and you will end up calling her Nan, 100%. Everyone, but the reality, uh, I think from getting into that portfolio, things changing, life changing, is those two pillars are going to shift over time. Yeah, I quite regularly see people go, hey, this is this is it. We we don't have an overwhelming why. And you're like, let's maximize, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

Alex, I'm just gonna I'm gonna talk about this as uh this is we're going into a battle, all right? And and it's like this chess game, you know. Uh a lot of people want to win the game, the chess game. And so to win the game, you've got to have a strategy, you've got to have a you gotta you've got to make tactical moves. And one of the things that my dad said I remember is is I used to get so nervous because I'm trying to find the next move and the next move based on the reaction of my opponent. And he goes, you know, professional players, they think about three to four moves in advance. By the way, grandmasters think about seven to eight moves, the permutations you get.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

Yeah, Magnus is playing it in his head.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

He's playing it, you know. When he sees the board, he's already seen eight to ten moves in advance. Not not many people can do that. I I can I can see as far as three to four strategic tactical moves, but I use that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

I've been distracted by a thing over to the corner.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I'm like, oh, and and I think that's with with a lot of uh people trying to build successful sustainable property portfolios, you know, like you can see, oh, I've got a budget of one million, I'm gonna make this move, but they forget that we are in a battle at the moment. Yeah, and you've got to be very strategic about well, if this happens, if the policy changes, if the interest rate changes, you know, you've got to look at the worst case scenario. What's the likely scenario and what's the best case scenario? And take all that in consideration. Go in with your eyes uh wide open and make strategical tactical decisions that's gonna help you in the long term, not just I'm gonna get the the first property with whatever my broker tells me to do. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, as good as your broker is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

And hence uh I yeah, it's look, it's a fascinating discussion, right? Because at the moment, uh if negative gearing disappears, so Anor and my if because it has to go through parliament, right? Yeah, um if it disappears, I think I've worked out that Anor and mine's borrowing capacity drops by $160,000. That wow I actually haven't made the decision to purchase a property based on negative gearing. So I know the gross cash flow figure, right? And so then it becomes attention like it's a capital growth question. For me, it's then well, like it's never been about rental income. Like I I was a commercial real estate agent when I first left uh well when I dropped out of civil engineering, I went straight into commercial real estate after a brief stint removing graffiti. And wow uh I can't picture that, that's all. Removing graffiti? Yeah, yeah, mate. I'm a wizard with a gurney in McCemicals. Oh yeah, not great. I was covered in paint. The joke in the office was you know the paint's meant to get on the wall, not on you guys. Um but no, I uh like I am in a position now where I know the gross figures, I know I need to cash flow that week to week to week to week, fortnight to fortnight, month to month. That's what I'm basing my ability to purchase on, not what I might get back taxed. Like that, honestly, the negative gearing was actually a way to pay off my own occupied home because I get the tax bracket. Like that was personally, that's not tax advice. I actually don't know if that's the right thing to do, but that's what I was going to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

Yeah. So and and by the way. You know, you you get your tax back at the end of the financial year unless you you you know you you let the age you opt in a little bit. But I think for the vast majority of people, I mean for me, I I look at it as a bonus. Okay, maybe it it pays for my holidays here and there. I don't even put it back into my property for you, to be honest. Because I forget about it. I forget about the negative gearing. And to be honest, I'd rather buy fun more than ever before. Fundamentally speaking, and foundationally speaking, it's more important than ever before. For you to therefore buy the right property in the right proximity with the right potentiality, yeah, and then pay the right price for it. Yeah. All right. Because the potentiality is where you really increase your cash flow. Imagine if you buy a million dollar property, you and you get $800 a week in rent, you spend $200,000 because you could put a granny flat at the back. That granny flat should get you anywhere between four to five hundred dollars a week in rent. I'm telling you, the the equity that you gain out of that and the cash flow you gain out of that is far supersedes any negative gearing tax back you're gonna get. You know, so you've got to get to the right fundamentals in the first place when you're building a successful and a sustainable property portfolio. But I feel for you, you know, um it it it impacts the type of properties you could purchase. You know, what you could buy now for a million dollars, if negative gearing is abolished, you can only buy an $840,000 property. That changes, Alex.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

It's less. Um so interesting, right? We've grown it funded. Yeah, those are based on 2025 financials. Yes. You often say to me, you buy the property you can afford in the market, you can afford it. I can afford a different property in three months' time. Price-wise. Are you going now or are you waiting? Three months. I'm not gonna tell you how much actually I can borrow.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

I I think I think if nothing substantially is gonna improve in three months, then why wait? Why wait? You you it's a few times. It increases by 400 grand. So if I mean, but that's substantial. Yes, that's that's substantial enough to go well. Three months, yes, it's a bit of a wait, but I think there's gonna be a lot of the in any season, there's good it's there's never the absolute perfect time to buy. I I bought when when you know when the friggin' COVID, I actually bought a property at the end of COVID. Can you believe it? You know, and and and and so there's just never the perfect time.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

But this is and this is a great point before we move on to what I think is gonna be my favorite question to ask you. I bought in 2019, and Bindy'll be able to attest to it, you know, in Queensland in 20, what, 2016. So, like, I'm just gonna say it may be your birthday, but this week Bindy and I celebrated a lovely milestone of 10 years when we started working in London together. So uh happy anniversary to us. And I said that to Anna, and she's like, You're weird, go away.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

Um you are weird anyway, generally.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

Weirdly wonderful. I get that a lot from my wife, and I'm like, mate, just because everyone thinks you're innocent, I love our men. Oh goodness. Love you. I'm gonna ask Anna if I can include this. So if what I'm about to say is not included, we're gonna include what I just said there. Yeah, we're not gonna include that. The girl sat down the other day and said, Mummy, why do you have such a big butt?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Oh no, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

And then Moni goes, No, not a big butt. She's got big biceps. I was just like, I love a woman who can help me move the desk. Oh goodness. Um, but no, uh bought 20 2019, December, we settled 19th. And then COVID. So we bought our first home for $5.20 in Aspley, and I was like, I've overspent. Wow. Overspent and I've got you talk about proximity, I've got proximity to the wrong thing. Um, but no, like we we bought for $5.20 in Aspley. I was really upset because I was trying to get into Stafford Heights because I saw that as a lot of like that was getting gentrified in North Brizzy with housing commission moving and stuff like that. And I love Stafford Heights with the trees and all that kind of anyway. We bought Aspley, uh, a house I was just touring through, and this is a big thing. If you're a first home buyer trying to figure out or a home upgrader trying to figure out what you and your wife want to live in, I always say two or three properties you don't think you want to like. Yeah, because you actually start and send properties to each other, right? Like just send them, you'll get an idea what you don't like, and you'll learn to compromise through that process. Just a quick thing. Yes. We went through this property that I was like, yeah, all right, cool. I live in that property. We walked out, and Anna said, I was like, Yeah, she's like the agent at the front, uh, whoever's working for Alex Porter at the time, was like, Hey, you know, what'd you think of the house? And I was like, Yeah, it's a house. I I was a senior mobile banker at the time, right? Like I was property was property was property. At the like, yeah, I'm I'm looking for the right potential, the right property. I thought I wanted a renovator.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

I thought, I thought, then we saw a renovator, I was like, how dirty is the bench? Am I going to be able to clean that bench? It's so ugh. The bench was probably that's an emotional position. One of the properties, the bench was narrower than this. And I was like, yeah, it was an old house.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

And I remember sitting there going, I really want a renovator, but I'm busy and I don't think I have time to do this myself. I I won't have any money left after this to actually do, which is one of the cool things I see you strategize around renaws and stuff like that. Yeah. So it was an intentional decision to walk away from a renovator. Walked out, and the lady went, you know, did you like it? What do you think? And I was like, Yeah, all right. Anna turned around and went silent. And I turned around and looked at her, and she's like, I I love it. And I was like, I was like, oh man, in my head, I was just like, This is not how you play it in front of the agent. Like, I was like this, and the agent goes, What the wife wants? The wife gets happy wife. Betty will attest ensure she's thinking this. I almost walked out of there. I almost went, Oh no, no. Like, I hate that line so much. I almost walked out. There's two people that make up a marriage. Thank you very much. Anyway, I ended up walking through it. We ended up nailing the negotiating process, 520, long settlement, settled December. And my whole mindset was I'm gonna have to save more money to buy an investment strategy in the property. I don't know what that strategy looks like, so I'm gonna keep just saving money until I figure out what the strategy is. Do I go buy and hold? I've seen my you know parents try and become property developers unsuccessfully. Like I just I don't know how you're making money on flipping because the construction costs, if you're not doing it all yourself, and then you're taking time away from your main job to it's just all these questions. And then COVID hit, and I'm like, oh whatever. I figured I'd buy, I figured I was buying at the top of the market, 1%, you know, growth, less than inflation, so I'm losing money over a couple years. And then 2021 hit and it went crazy. Absolutely. And I was like, oh, this is the correction Queensland needed. We were always underpriced compared to Sydney Melbourne. Yep, plateaued massively. I was like, oh, this is the correction. And then the lockdowns ended in Queensland, but no one else, and everyone realized how good Queensland was and started migrating, and it went crazy. You just sometimes don't know what the right fundamentals can bring you over 10 years, right? Longevity in the market, stuff like that. So with all that said, where wouldn't you invest at the moment, Colin Lee? What are the two areas? And we and look, the reason we're going this, and we've touched a few suburbs and stuff here and there. I don't want to be in the spruking game. Sure. You've you've touched kind of Queensland. If anyone has a two-minute conversation with you, they're gonna get that right. So that's par the course. You touched some statistics around, but where are the places you wouldn't invest, and what are the the actual reasons behind that in terms of stats or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

Yeah, it's uh it's a very, very good question in terms of where I would personally invest and therefore what I wouldn't invest. In in general, and this is something I've learned from some very intelligent people. I've had the opportunity of interviewing a lot of people that are further along in terms of their wealth and in terms of their stewardship. And the one thing I hear all the time is you've got to write have the right fundamentals in terms of demand and growth. And what are those fundamentals? The those fundamentals are uh uh supported by key industries. So, what I'm trying to say is I don't like buying into areas where it's rural, regional areas, because typically in those areas they are supported by key industries, i.e., mining, agriculture, farming, whatever. Uh tourism, maybe that's another one. I mean, so in good times, they're great. But in bad times, it's terrible. So the I guess the the the the ups and the downs on on the demand of those sort of areas really. And they're more transient.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Like you think of Gladstone and Murabar as you know, some areas it's like great times, people are coming in and out, but there's always people coming in, right? So vacancy is low, and you know, I might want to buy because I think I want to it's good with Gladstone as well. Like that it's been horrible at times when certain refineries have shut down, but then you know things have swung back economically and it's gone crazy and it's got its time the sun. Correct. You're dealing with a lot of transient nature for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:33

It is, and it's probably too it it fluctuates you know too much for me to to have a degree of comfort. And and again, who's to know what's gonna happen? But you know, we know that you know, like if if if in the mining boom when when parts of the world really require our natural resources, everything go goes well. So I in Perth, you know, you have these massive spikes. But the minute we know that when China sneezes and and they reduce the intake of all this iron ore and all this that's required, then there is a mining boom, a mining crash. And so you get these properties that are doing this. And I just sometimes I feel like you know, for me, I prefer to go to bed at night. I want to be consistent, and that is usually supported by key industries or multiple industries, finance industry, banking, you know, um, legal, you know, construction, this education, uh, hospital, age care, you know, medical. Those things will never go out of fashion. So you want to make sure you buy into those areas that will be supported. Um, so so I I I I try and avoid rural and regional areas. Yes. So that's probably the big thing for me. Um and and that sometimes that that means that you know you've gotta you've got to look, okay. Well, for a certain amount of money, if you if you can't buy a house, what's gonna be the next best type of property? And that's when I go into a townhouse, you know, because it's not always oftentimes that you can have enough of a budget to buy a house, otherwise you've got to go into rural and regional areas. I mean, admittedly, I'm I'm I'm not knowledgeable enough of those areas. I'm not saying absolutely don't. I think there's a lot of people that have made money from rural regional areas, but I just don't dabble into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

So that's what I have for I mean it's a it's an interesting thought on the regional. Like I uh we work with uh a business partner referral partner who has some relationships with buyers agents who do work a lot in those regional areas. Sure. I've not been that impressed by the portfolio overall.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

Um because the reality is the demand there is always not gonna be as strong as something that's in the major capital city. When you look at the international migration coming into the country, I promise you, and I know a lot because I have a lot of friends from Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, you know, uh when they come, they're not gonna want to go out into the farms. They're just so where where do you think the demand's gonna come from?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

No, they're not they're not gonna yeah, people don't want to go from high density living. You love high density living to your like you love it, you don't want to invest in it, yeah, but you love living. It's a lifestyle for me, Alex.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

Yeah, I can't imagine living out in Aspley, with due respect. It's it's out in the wood put for me. I'll buy an Aspoli, but I just wouldn't live. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't buy an Aspoli. No, I would. I think it's it's my sister-in-law's got a property in Aspley, it's done really, really well.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

I'd live in Aspley, I wouldn't invest in it at the moment. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, okay, yeah, fair enough. That's mainly because we can agree to disagree. I'm not I'm not gonna go into my financial philosophy that I pitched. I I pitch to my financial planner what I want to do. I'm trying to convince him. You know him, he doesn't like that. Oh goodness. Let me let me so that's the one thing I would avoid. Rural regional.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Yeah, rural and regional. The second thing is um, look, obviously, there's a lot of um metrics and parameters that I look at, but I I like consistency, but there are some states at the moment uh that I think is you know, a lot of people talk about Melbourne at the moment being one of those states that's that's undervalue, okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:58

So I on that there are property podcasts and I like to see what is going on out there. Am I missing a trick that other people are pulling you know the strings and doing that? I I know some people like I don't I don't want to get my message mixed up, you know, so I don't listen to other podcasts and I don't listen to other brokers, and I'm like, well I need to educate, I need to make sure I'm not missing a trick. Sure. I've listened to a bunch of these podcasts that are going, it's got to change in Melbourne, like da-da-da, this and that. And I'm just like, vacancy's low. Yeah. And but are you, and this is why this is literally why we don't spruok because I had a lot of clients coming to me going, I watched this podcast, I want to go invest in Melbourne. We've had some of those clients, you and I, and we're like, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um one of those clients has had horrendous vacancy rates and had to kick a tenant out already. Wow. And I'm just like, but he it was a competitive market that he had to make offers in.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:56

Alex, there's probably a fifth pillar in this. I'm not saying don't buy in Melbourne, but I'm just using that as an example in terms of why I think fundamentally speaking, there's it's probably not the opportune time to get into Melbourne at the moment for various reasons. Um the fact is that Melbourne grew at five percent last year in 2025. So so the the prediction at the moment is it may grow between six to seven percent in 2026. That's the forecast, all right? Whereas in Queensland and Perth, by the way, it's forecasted for seven to ten percent. Now, assuming those numbers are true, then you know, where would you put your money at the moment? Because I I want to find the quickest way to gain capital as quickly as possible so I can draw on the equity to continue to optimize and to fast-track my investment property portfolio. So I'm watching Melbourne, yeah, but what I what I'm trying to get to is fundamentally there's just a lot of things that I'm finding at the moment where it's not the sort of area I'd like to invest in. Uh, a couple of things, policies, stamp duty as an example, is significantly more, and I mean more for an equivalent $800,000 property in Melbourne versus something that you get in Queensland, for example, you're paying about $15,000 to $20,000 more just in stamp duty, which is one of the reasons why there's a lot of people moving out of Melbourne or investors getting out of Melbourne. So there's going to be a slight oversupply, there's going to be a bit of a blip. Um, but that's not to say I wouldn't buy in Melbourne. As long as you get the right property, get it for the right price, in the right proximity, with the right potentiality. If it ticks those four boxes, by all means go for it. But I know where I'll put my money at the moment. Uh so not only that, and then you've got the land tax issues as well, you know. So the cost of holding the cost of entry is just a little bit too it's it's it's outside of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:33

Well, you mentioned earlier you make money when you buy, right? And so, yes, it might be well within like you might be able to get a house within further within your budget that might allow more properties to be able to purchase. Correct. But if you're costing yourself more when you buy a property, when you sell in similar growth area, like it's it's part of the whole, correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:52

So yeah. So I hope that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

Yeah, mate, it it does. And I think uh one last question. What so what changes in those metrics with Melbourne? If we're looking at that, what changes in terms of the metrics? Is it literally the growth forecast? Like what changes for you to go? Actually, now's the time to turn around?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:17

Very good question. Uh you may I know my answer, it's the government.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

No. That we can't change. Well, maybe we can. Uh but for me, it's the fundamentals and the foundation of where I would spot an opportunity. And I talk about this all the time. It's PIE, which is the three acronyms. Fundamentally, I look at where the population growth is happening. Because where population growth is, is where the demand is. Where people go into the city, both from an overseas net migration perspective and an interstate migration perspective, that's where the demand is. But there has to be backed up by some key fundamentals as well. And then that means employment, which I'll get into a little bit. Now, in terms of population, Melbourne at the moment is losing people from a net interstate migration perspective. That's one key point. I think most of the country is almost negative apart from Malta, except for Queensland, correct. But but Melbourne is severely so, more than ever before. People are moving out of Melbourne. All you know, it's the most livable city, but it's it's just, you know, I don't know if you've been to Melbourne lately, but man, it's it's I was there last year. It's um family. It's just not the same Melbourne that I had once known. You know, no, I grew up. And I'm not trying to lock me up the Melbourne's, it's just that's the truth. And then if you look at the international migration, by the way, now India has overtaken China uh in terms of the largest interstate migration by country of birth, followed by the Philippines, which is the third one. Now, if you look at all that, where do you think a lot of these international migrations moving into? Do you know the numbers? In Melbourne or in Australia, where do you think they're moving to? Brisbane LGA. Wow. So, and and I've looked at the numbers last time. Brisbane. I think you meant Sunnybank.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

Yeah, that's where they used to move to Glen Waverley in in Melbourne. That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:06

Yep. Um, and so Brisbane at the moment is twice more. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:12

It was about to come.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

Um hang on. Yeah. So Brisbane now is taking on twice more the this the number of overseas net migration coming into Brisbane. And it's driven by employment and it's driven by investment in infrastructure. Now, the the in terms of government funding, and that's another pillar that I look at. Uh, New South Wales is obviously takes the largest line shed, 85 billion, I think, from the from the federal government funding. Victoria is obviously about $78 billion. But what's noticeable in the last couple of years is the massive shift in terms of investment and infrastructure. Um, and and what that shift is, uh, there's a positive net of $7.7 billion into Queensland. Wow. That's the highest net positive gain from an investment perspective. Now, where money goes is where employment goes, right? Uh we're in preparation of the Olympics, we're we're needing more and more services, professional services, builders' trades to come into Queensland to build up the infrastructure. So that's a big one. And then I talk about employment, right? And I'll finish off with this in terms of the fundamentals. Now, if you look at the do you want to know who which city in Australia has got the highest median income? Have a guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:25

Uh Sydney.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:26

No, Canberra.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:28

Yeah, Canberra. Yeah, yeah. Canberrians, shout out to Canberrians.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

They've got the highest number of people with tertiary qualifications, and they're all government, you know, public servants. Yeah, it's I think it's about 116,000 from memory, followed by you know what, Perth. Perth is the second because of the mines. The third is Sydney, that's hilarious. Third is Sydney at 107,000, but next to that is Brisbane at 105,000. Wow. I want you to think about this carefully, uh uh Alex. 107,000, 105,000. It's such a minute difference in terms of your average median income. But the property prices in in Sydney is, I think the median's getting edging close to about 1.6, 1.7. Brisbane's about 1.1 at the moment. So call it half a million dollars in terms of the difference. For the same amount of income, and let's say you have a million and a half dollars to buy a property, you could probably buy a really nice two-bedroom in Sydney or buy a really nice house, four-bedroom, probably close to the water, close to public amenities, transportation, etc. etc. What would you do? Brisbane, baby. Exactly. Yeah. So the vast majority of interstate migration, actually, it's which is an inverse proportion, is actually coming from Sydney. Wow. So population growth impacted by investment in infrastructure, couple that with employment, it's a bit of a no-based.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:46

We've spoken to clients in uh the northern suburbs, and even I don't know if you know this, two of the clients you've got at the moment, their family is from the northern suburbs. Yeah. Um and they they're all just going, we can never buy here. We want to live here, we love this area, we're you know, uh very, very invested in it. We just can't buy here, we can't afford it. So let's go invest and buy and live elsewhere because that's where it is. Um, interestingly, I think one of the statistics, because I did a deep dive uh you know on the migration statistics just to learn a little bit about it. In the biggest migration from Melbourne was actually to Fraser's Rise, which is just outside the LGA in Melbourne. Which was interesting. It's like North Lakes for Brisbane, right? And so it was very interesting. There's a giant shift, like huge amount of interstate migration into that newly built area. Yeah, interesting. So interesting. It'll be interesting to see these moves around new builds, interstate, and what that does for certain areas. Yes. Um mate, I I think I want to jump into finishing there. Yeah, thank you so much. Like that was uh so much information. I messaged Bindy like a couple times going, can you take this note for me? Can you take this note? Like, because I just wanted to timestamp it really. Um, and Bindy's like, I'm trying to keep up. Like, this is just hit after hit after hit. It was awesome. Uh I am really excited to get into the post show. Poor decisions, it's gonna be a bit of fun. We've got some good things planned for you, Mr. Colin Lee. I like it. But I think the neat takeaway for me today is that property isn't the side hustle, the strategy is the side hustle. And so anyone can buy a house, the work is really in deciding which one, when, and what's it doing. And I think for the next 10 years of your life, that's kind of the focus, right? That dream we spoke about that with Riley a few years ago. And getting that right and keeping the three-year kind of plans that you mentioned in in your mind, that is almost the 90% of the process done. Absolutely. And then the 10% left is getting the team around you, getting the experts that honor that momentum, give you clarity about that decision. So uh, mate, thank you so much for honoring us with your time. I am really excited because when this comes out, you might be launching something, Colin Lee. Ooh, that's a secret. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:10

I'm gonna tease you.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:12

So you can find Colin Lee, Inspire Realty, on Instagram. He's got almost 13,000 followers. I had no idea you had that many. I'm that famous. Yeah, how many people have you bullied into doing that? Um no, it was uh I think you are one of the best buyers' agents in Australia. You've got the awards to prove it, and I'm glad I saw a trophy in there. You didn't bring it out. You bring it out in poor decisions. Yes. Uh, but the reality is that go and check out Colin Lee on Instagram, on LinkedIn if you want less engagement. I don't know what you're doing. I don't I don't can't remember last time I saw you. I've done much with LinkedIn. But the reality is there's going to be potentially something really cool for you to check out, and I've heard it from a little birdie. Some things. I'm so excited. Yeah. It's got a chess theme on it. Ooh. Ooh. On the cover? Yes. How good. I know. The same person who's done the cover did the finance bit neat. But look, if you've got someone that needs some c you know, strategy, needs some reasons, needs some why, needs some clarity over it, this man is the best person for that. Reach out to him. You can find him, Inspire Realty online, Colin Lee on Instagram. Thank you, sir. See you guys in the post show.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:24

Thank you, Alex. Finance, but neat.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:31

It's all in the internation.