A Different Way of Thinking: Autism, Magic, and Finding Your Strengths

In this episode of Autism Explained, professional magician and disability advocate Cody Clark shares how an early autism diagnosis, an extremely limited prognosis, and one unforgettable moment onstage helped shape his life and career.

Cody’s parents first noticed changes in his responsiveness when he was approximately 15 months old. After his autism diagnosis, a pediatrician predicted that Cody would never walk, talk, marry, or hold a job. Rather than allowing that prediction to define their son’s future, Cody’s family continued supporting his development and encouraging his abilities.

His path toward magic began at age 11 during a family vacation in Gulf Shores, Alabama. When a magician invited Cody onto the stage, he experienced a sense of confidence and empowerment that he had not found through sports or traditional academics. That moment sparked what would become a 22-year career in performance.

Cody also reflects on the gradual development of his identity as an autistic advocate. In fourth grade, he began recognizing that autism was not simply a diagnosis attached to him—it was part of how he experienced and understood the world. Later, while attending the University of Louisville, mentor Richard Ryufo encouraged Cody to stop concealing his differences onstage and instead perform with greater honesty.

That advice led Cody to create an autism-centered routine that eventually became his signature touring show, A Different Way of Thinking.

Through a blend of magic, comedy, storytelling, and influences drawn from classic country songwriting, Cody helps audiences reconsider disability through a strength-based lens. He discusses valuable autistic traits including honesty, emotional sensitivity, hyper-empathy, deep focus, and a strong desire to solve problems.

The conversation also explores the double empathy problem and why genuine autism acceptance requires autistic and neurotypical people to meet one another in the middle. Cody compares the communication gap to attempting to install software designed for a PC directly onto a Mac: neither system is defective, but they operate differently.

Learn more about Cody’s performances, advocacy work, and touring schedule at codyclarkmagic.com.

Follow @codyclarkmagic on all major social platforms.

Transcript

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They took me to the pediatrician who confirmed that I had autism and told them that I would never walk, talk, get married, or really amount to much at all. My parents helped me prove them wrong. There were no secrets on stage. Instead of people fearing my differences, I'd earned their respect. There is a magician who changed my life. I got caught up on stage. I was empowered in a way I had not before. Temple Grand always says everyone can do something. That something may look different for everyone, but everyone can do something. Everyone's life starts off as a blank slate. But when you grow to accept people in your life with autism and let them be their best selves, you'll help us bloom into becoming successful adults. My name is Cody Clark, and my story is that I just turned 33 and I'm based in Louisville, Kentucky, and I like all sorts of things fun. As you can see here, I got a lot of the characters that I'm just like, like two Mickey Mouses, a Bugs Bunny, and a Snoopy. I like their senses of adventure. I like that they like trains. I like the arts. Of course, the performing arts a little bit uh more so. And uh when I was 15 months of age, my parents uh noticed I quit responding to my name. And they thought that I might be going deaf at first, which is why they took me to the pediatrician who confirmed that I had autism and told them that I would never walk, talk, get married, have children, hold down a job, or really amount to much at all. And thankfully, over the years, my parents helped me prove them wrong. And then when I became a young adult, wanted to go into business as a magician, I was able to prove them wrong a little more myself. Well, when did autism become a meaningful part of my life journey? Well, of course, I've always lived with it, and it was more pronounced when I was younger. So, to an extent, my early elementary school experiences do have a very autism-flavored overtone because I was navigating the therapy systems and having in-class assistants. Even if I didn't know exactly why they were there, that autism equaled me until fourth grade. But I think the spirit of the question is when did I start becoming an advocate? When I got into magic, I indeed just wanted to be a Las Vegas star like any other kid who gets into magic. It wasn't until I was trying to get into the slant culture theater festival in Louisville with my magic show. I got rejected, but with very specific notes that they wanted a magic show with a story that made them feel things that was more than just tricks. And around the same time, I was coming of age as to what autism meant to me as an adult. And I had a mentor, he's actually still one of my mentors. His name is Richard Raibufo. He was in U of L with me as a master's in theater while I was getting my bachelor's. He told me that there were no secrets on stage. That I shouldn't hide who I am, but I should be my best self. That way, instead of people fearing my differences, I'd earn their respect. And uh they would not only quit bullying me, but they would actively help me succeed. And that ended up being so true. It was because of those words of encouragement, I wrote a routine about autism, did it at the Theater Department Open Mic, and it was so well received that next year when the Slant Culture Theater Festival applications opened up, that is when I decided to make the whole show about autism. And lo and behold, I'm still touring at that show 12 years later. It is called Different Way of Thinking. It is my signature show in which I combine magic, comedy, and storytelling to share what being autistic is like for me. And seeing how well that show is done over the years, and seeing all the different markets that opened up because I started doing the show, that's when being a disability advocate uh became a bigger part of my picture. As they say in business school, the one sentence definition of marketing is see and need, fill a need. And I learned firsthand that there is a big need for learning about an authentic perspective of disability and about helping young adults with disabilities successfully find their thing and make the transition to becoming successful adults. Specific moments that changed how I view autism. Uh, I don't know of any off the top of my head. I can distinctly remember that time in fourth grade where I went from knowing that there was some reason that I was taken out for different special needs classes to knowing autism equaled me. Knowing that autism equaled me, and then seeing uh how far I did come from the diagnosis lists, but also the limited prognosises that were still ahead of me in their minds, like we don't get married, we don't have children, we don't get degrees, we are having a hard time making friends. That was one shift in how I viewed autism when I first realized autism equaled me. And uh the other big shift was that college-era shift from starting to be more open about it, because not that I've I've not really had to mask as much as others, and I think magic's helped a lot with that. But before I did a different way of thinking, I thought I wouldn't tell anyone since most people, well, not that they don't perceive it, but they don't perceive it as heavily. So there's a lot of people who straight up don't perceive it. So I was like, oh yes, I'm practically normal. I don't have any problems whatsoever. My one-to-one, my heart to heart with Richard showed me that maybe that's not the case, but that is totally okay, and that I can let others know that that's totally okay. And then I'd say the third paradigm shift was actively serving the disabilities community with my shows. The more that I intersected with the independent living part of the disabilities movement, the more I got to see that everyone at every functioning level has big goals and big dreams and is quite capable of achieving them. And that is when my perspective got to be more like Tiple Granted always says everyone can do something. That something may look different for everyone, but everyone can do something. And that is my current perspective that I very rarely ever discourage anyone from trying. Whether they are like me and able to live on their own or whether they're in a group home environment, I do think there's some sort of capability everyone has. When I first encountered autism, my views were of receiving services even before I really knew why I was receiving the services. On one hand, I had a lot of fun with my autism therapist Rosen Scott, enough fun to why I didn't entirely mine be taken out of school, but there was a definite sense of othering because I knew the other kids did not have to do that. And I knew there was some reason I weirdly seemed to attract bullies. When I understood autism equaled me in fourth grade, I was relieved to gain some understanding, but there were some bad prognosises that I still came very close to letting weigh me down. So I understood autism equaled me, and that explained a lot of things, but it was still a very deficit-oriented model. That didn't really change until I started doing uh my autism advocacy matter shows, started seeing the capabilities, not just within me, but within my audience members with disabilities and the nationwide support network that serves all of them. That's when I got shifted into the strength-based model and the addressing the genuine issues model rather than masking and trying to cure us of our afflictions model. What I wish the world understood about autism is that it's nothing to be scared of or try to cure or try to over-treat, but rather it is a different way of thinking that we need to embrace, that we need to understand for our own selves, and that others need to learn to understand more about us. I think people overcomplicate their responses to autism when in reality it's a more matter of what are you going through, why are you going through this, and how can we help? Those three questions, when dealing with any autistic person, they can get you very far in helping not just increase understanding, but nip any issues in the bud before they get really huge. I would say my perspective on seeing the person before the diagnosis is seeing the person and the diagnosis rather. That autism is not some part of me that I can just leave at home. It's a part that I bring with me that joins me on activities. And it is what makes a lot of these activities fun. So, yes, I'm autistic and there's more. That's my personal take on it. Not, oh, focus on the person. Yes, he has autism. We'll just give it surface level acknowledgement, then not mention it again. But I want to bring the autism with me into any space I go to because that helps normalize autism for everyone else. Seeing that we are out and about and we have the same goals, capabilities, and dreams as anyone else, and that we're fun, multifaceted people who do the same things that uh anyone else does, and even some unique things that no one else can do. Well, ironically, given that I'm a magician, I will say that one strength of autism is that it's much harder for us to lie, unless, of course, we're doing magic tricks. That we expect people to stay to their word and we stay to the word ourselves. And a lot of context that helps, some context that hurts, especially with social skills, because it's hard for us to account for some people just being willing to blatantly lie for no good reason. But I would say, in spite of that part causing us problems, our commitment to honesty is a strength of autism that gets overlooked. I also think uh us uh being sensitive in general, it's good to be it can definitely be overwhelming to be sensitive, it can definitely be taxing on your emotions, but it also lets you be attuned to what's wrong with the world, what's wrong with others, and propose solutions to help fix it. And I like that we're so solutions-oriented that instead of putting band-aids on problems like neurotypical people do, we want to make sure that problem gets solved and that problem gets nipped in the bud. Uh, well, my one big person with autism that has helped change how I view autism is one of my best friends that I've made since moving into this neighborhood. His name is Daryl, and I met him at a video game-oriented bar that's actually across the street from me. And he is uh autistic adult, and uh he is very social with me, but not necessarily with others. And he taught me that that is a-okay. He taught me that uh ultimately, as much as I advocate to others to do what makes the other person feel comfortable rather than forcing them into your norms, that there were definitely a there was definitely a few times where I tried to be like, hey, don't sit in the corner, socialize with my friends. I didn't invite you, I mean, I didn't invite you to this for you to just sit in the corner. So seeing both the best moments I've had with him and the times where I've done stuff like that by mistake, and times where I've invited him to events that were very stimulating, overwhelming, that really taught me how to be better at uh not only living up to what I preach, but also being better at accounting for my friends of autism's needs in advance. Now I know with Daryl that yes, he is fun at hanging out with my friends, but not too many at one time, or not with an overt pressure to keep the conversation going at all times. And that he likes concerts with me, but only certain types of concerts. He's punched through it. He worked through a bunch of industry service jobs that weren't a good fit, and it took a few until he found now he works at Lowe's. Lowe's is well known for mental health resources for employees in general and for being autism friendly. And it is the right balance of socializing without the demands of customer service. So he taught me through his experiences with finding consistent employment that worked for him that uh trying and trying again and experimenting until you find what works just right for you, no matter how long it takes, that is one of the keys to being a successful autistic adult. Well, my journey as a magician began when I was 11 when my family went on a vacation to Gulf Shores, Alabama. Where families go and they can't afford Florida. But in Gulf Shores, there is a magician who changed my life by calling me up on stage and handing me the blade to stab inside the sawing a lady in half box. But don't worry, she only left with a split personality. But because I got caught up on stage, I was empowered in a way I had not before. I made B's and C's in school, wasn't good at sports, social skills were of course mess, but being able to literally do things that no one else could, plus how this fit in with my lifelong love of the performing arts, that made me feel magic was the path that I should take. And it's a path I have taken for 22 years in counting. Well, I have always been drawn to the performing arts. I always loved seeing plays on field trips. I enjoyed the magicians at the state fair, and I thought magic was cool and quirky, but uh it wasn't until getting called up on stage by this magician, it wasn't until that moment where I connected the dots that this was something I could learn and that these skills were within my reach and realm. And uh when I learned my first magic tricks, I literally did them on that same family vacation before we left for the rest of the day. I mean the rest of the week. And being able to see everyone gasp and people not know how I did that. That is a very powerful feeling for any 11-year-old, but especially one who's mostly known himself to have a disability and not be able to do things that everyone else can easily do. And uh, the nationwide network of magic clubs where he learned magic has opened up a rich community. And I love how there's always something new to work on with magic. That progress is never entirely finished, but uh there's always something new to add, some sort of new skill set to address. And magic, it is more than just stunts to me. Some magicians are content for it to just be stunts, and in certain contexts, like a state fair, that may be more so what's needed than what I do. But uh I like that magic is about human relations to power. It could either be like most magicians, I lord power over you, or like what I do, I lift people up who have been disempowered. And I love especially going to an adult daycare setting or a disability conference and allowing someone with a profound disability to do the magic moment. That could literally change life sometimes, how empowering that is. What helped me realize that the magic advocacy combo was so powerful was when I toured a different way of thinking on the fringe theater festival circuit. The slant culture theater festival that I mentioned earlier is part of what's called fringe festivals. Fringe festivals are independent theater festivals where all you have to do is apply on time and you get in. And that's because they're unjured. They don't want to filter out topics or let human bias enter what gets programmed versus what doesn't, which is perfect for magicians because not everyone thinks magic's an art. And it's perfect for niche subjects like autism and other minority group issues, because uh so many arts programmers can unconsciously filter out having those programs programmed. So not only these my show getting in these festivals, but consistently selling well and getting awards, and uh my marketing efforts showing me how many people resonated with this kind of story, that this was a story that was not heard enough. A lot of families, a lot of individuals are looking for people who can reassure them that they will get through this to the other side, and my show could provide that and also provide specific skill sets for what to do next to facilitate that smooth transition to the other side. Oh, there are definitely many memorable show moments, I would say uh too many to count, but uh I did have a recent one uh at a library in Green Hills uh in Chicagoland, where there was this autistic uh young adult who's into Ruby Skies big time, into magic a little bit, but wanted to know where to go, and has also been going through the challenges of growing up with autism and becoming an independently living autistic adult in a major metro area, and uh seeing how relieved she was that uh someone could be a case study in and it being an independent living adult, and seeing that there are resources to go learn more magic beyond the beginner magic tricks, and seeing how eager she is to keep in touch with me and see what I'm up to, seeing different adults uh start to form their life paths, or even more than that, just believe they have a life path because they see the show. That is what's most memorable for me. Uh seeing the eyes open up that, oh, I can do something. I gotta find my thing, but I can do something. And there are definitely moments where I've had audience members with profound autism uh commit. Some people would say they're fall pose, but I say they're just extra entertaining moments where I've had a person or two steal my mic and start info dumping. And uh other performers would have been like, no, don't do that. But I found ways to work it into the show, weave jokes into it, and then carefully get the mic back so I could continue the show. And also at the sensory-friendly shows I do at libraries that are more for younger audiences. Seeing that I can accept and embrace uh stimming and Ecolila and walking around during the show more than other performers can, people are relieved that there's actually an event that they can go to without judgment. And I'm very thankful to be able to provide that. And those shows are always memorable. Well, magic is a safe middle ground for all sorts of uh potentially controversial topics because everyone at least gets to see a magic trip no matter what. And most people at least like magic. Of course, most don't love it as much as a magician would, but most don't hate it either. And magic's not an art that's traditionally known for being advocacy-oriented, so it's kind of a surprise, and people don't come up already defensive because they know they're seeing a fun magic show. But uh, by being what I also do to alleviate any potential uh tenseness in advance upon hearing the message is through my other special interest of classic country music, I developed a very straightforward three chords in the truth, here's my experience, take it or leave it kind of writing approach. Where I'm not necessarily trying to preach or force people to specifically change their ways. I'm just saying, here's my story, here's what autism's done for me, here's how it's impacted me. It's on you to take the ball and run with it. And I also think the relatability I gained from my writing style being based on classic country music helps with affinity, helps with people seeing, oh, I like baseball, oh, I try to play basketball, oh, he made very hyper-specific local jokes about things that I wouldn't have expected him to have known to make inside jokes about. That also is disarms. So the trick itself is disarming, the writing style and the hyper specific local jokes are disarming, and it allows people to be open to hearing a new perspective and then uh respect. Respectfully deciding what to do with that information. What Autistic individuals have taught me and what I've taught my audiences is that uh success looks different to everyone. Just the most important thing is that you have some sort of definition of success, that you have some sort of clear ideas and clear goals. It should not be forced to be by society standard. It should not be forced to be, oh, do XYZ because everyone else is. It should be what's at uh your desire and what's at your pace. And uh that is because success looks different for everyone and we may generally do things a bit slower than everyone else, but that does not mean we are any less capable. I'd love to change the misconception that we don't have empathy, we don't have feelings, that we really are just all about ourselves. Because, for one, everyone has their selfish moments, but also many of us have hyper empathy to the point where that affects us more than any other autism symptom. And I also have many dear friends that I spoil the crap out of, and of course, my niece and nephew that I spoil uh the heck out of too. Then also the love I have for my audiences, the love I have for my interests. Uh I uh am definitely full of love, and I wish more people were open to autistics being full of love. True autism acceptance is addressing the double empathy problem. In short, one way many people have compared autism is PCs versus Macs. Both are computers, both compute, but install one software on the other without any meeting in the middle or any special softwares, and you're gonna have problems. And that is why so many, there's so much friction between autism and the neurotypical world is because it's two different operating systems trying to communicate with each other. And so far the remedy has been for neurotypical to be like, hey, autistic, change everything. When in reality, the stator should be more even. Like, yes, indeed, don't be genially rude, but hey, learn a little bit about us as well. And uh I think if uh you have double empathy, if you know what the double empathy problem is, and you try your best to meet us in the middle rather than making us do the heavy lifting and meeting you in the middle, I think that will go a long way toward truly accepting us, not just simply being aware that we exist. Well, I hope everyone learns that uh there's capability all across the disability spectrum. That uh there is no one that you can write off because there's, of course, people who can live on their own, there's people who can't, there's people who are society's model of success, and people who look like they would live up the stereotypes about who can be successful with a disability. But from doing all the conferences, I hear all the stories from my audience members. I know many who people would not think live on their own, but have lived in their own longer than I've been alive. I have been as educated by my audiences and as inspired by my audiences as I have to them. That's one big thing I hope people take away from the work. I hope people take away from my presentations that uh successful life on the disability spectrum is far from impossible and is in fact uh quite a realistic outcome. It'll just look different everywhere on the spectrum. But there is very few people who truly have no hope. One magic moment or lesson about autism. Well, I will take that surprisingly literally, since we are doing a video recording. I will actually show you a magic trick to share what I want you all to take away about autism. Everyone's life starts off as a blank slate. But when you grow to accept people in your life with autism and let them be their best selves and equip them with the tools to do so, you'll help us bloom and to becoming successful adults. Thank you. My name is Cody Clark. If you want to learn more, you may go to Cody ClarkMagic.com or at Cody Clark Magic on major social medias. I tour the country all the time, and about the first of every month, I will post a tour calendar so you can know when I'm at a conference or another event in your area. I'd love to see you all at any of the shows or talks.