Conservation Catch Up

We know we've been gone for so long, but it's for a good reason! Catch up on all of the amazing conservation the Aquarium has done this year with Johanna Hultberg, Conservation Manager of Fish & Invertebrates.

Episode resources:

• Transcript
• Follow @podcific on Instagram!
• Email us at podcific@lbaop.org
• Tidewater gobies news story
• Learn more about the Aquarium's conservation efforts on our website

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hi, I'm Erin Lundy. And I'm Madeline Walton, and this is Aquarium of the Pacific, a podcast brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, Southern California's largest aquarium.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Join us as we learn alongside the experts in animal care, conservation, and more. Hey. Hey. Hey. I know it's sorry. Sorry. Sorry in advance.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Sorry. We've been a little busy. You've been very busy. The listener or me? Well, actually the listener. The listener. Actually, you've been too busy to listen to us, so we decided to just wait seven months to record it for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

We know it's been a second since we have recorded an episode, but we promise we actually have a new season coming out pretty soon. We are in the process of recording some new episodes. In the meantime, we did want to give you some excuses as to why it took us so long to come back around and record a new episode of Podcific. And it mostly has to do with conservation, which is great. This is like the most important thing. Yeah, that's like my whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

That's like the best thing we could have been doing besides podcasting.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

It goes podcasting way up here, and then conservation somewhere down in the middle. Yeah, that's second priority, but this summer did take first priority. So we actually hired a new conservation manager. Her name is Johanna Holtberg, and she and I share a desk. It is the best. We have conservation corner now. But we've been doing a lot of different conservation projects and helping with some of the things that have been happening here in California. So if you missed us, same.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

So we're back, and we have even more conservation to talk about beyond this episode. This season we're gonna talk about monarch butterflies. We're talking today about abalone and sunflower sea stars, and it sounds like we're gonna have to have an all abalone episode for you because there's just so much to say about those little cute snails. All abs all the time. I wish that was my ab day.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

We've got a fun episode with Johanna.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

It's great. And we're so happy to be back. It it it's been too long, so we're excited to chat with you more. Again, you can follow us at pod pacific. Um you can find us everywhere you listen to podcasts. And we're gonna be back real soon with some really fun stories. Okay, thanks for coming back. Okay, Madeline hopping on here, post-recording to let you know that you can now email the podcast. That's right. We have an email inbox that you can write to us at the pod pacific at lbaop.org.org. Feel free to email us with your suggestions for future episodes or just anything you want to share with us. Let's get into the episode. Welcome back to Aquarium of the Pod Pacific. I'm Madeline Malden, your digital content and community manager, and today I am joined with Aaron Lundy.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

I am actually one of the aquarium's conservation managers, and I get to say that now because previously I was introducing myself as manager of conservation initiatives. But now we actually have two conservation managers for our husbandry department. That's cheering if you're wondering what that sounds like. Not a wolfhouse. And Johanna, if you want to introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah, I'm Johanna Holtberg. I am the newest conservation manager, and I am overseeing the fish and invertebrate department, so helping with all of our conservation initiatives in that department. Insert wolf sound here.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

It's cheering, don't worry. It's a cheering wolf. It's a happy wolf. We wanted to talk a little bit about some updates in conservation this year. This is going to be a smaller episode of the Aquarium of the Pacific today. We just wanted to let you know some of the cool things that we have going on at the aquarium.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah, there's been a lot happening. We were just doing a sea turtle release last week.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

And I know that you've had a ton of really exciting stuff happen the next last couple of months. And Johanna joined us recently and was just thrown right into all of the amazing work that the aquarium does.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I think if I identify myself as frogs, Aaron, you probably identify yourself as abalone Johanna.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I think so.

unknown 3:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

I think so. I love being defined by your animal by your your passionate animal. Frogs passion.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

A baloney Johanna. You should see our shared cube. There are frogs and abalone everywhere everywhere. And golden retrievers. Yes. There are also golden retrievers in there. But why don't you tell us a little bit about some of the cool abalone updates that have been happening since you've started, which, by the way, when did you start again?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

I started mid-May. So we are just about at three months.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

And you are now critical to the operations of conservation here at the aquarium.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, it has been a packed three months, but in all the best ways. I think it was my second week. We got a delivery on a private jet of 2,247 to be exact. So exactly. So they were, yeah, they came in hot. Like they were looking good in their private jet. So they came to us from uh UC Davis' Bodega Marine Lab, who is one of our key partners of our white abalone conservation work. So they sent us about one and a half year old white abalone that we've been helping to grow up nice and big here. So these abalone are destined for the ocean. They're gonna make their way out into our local waters in the spring. Nice. They're in the spring outplant.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Can you talk to us a little bit for those who aren't familiar? What is abalone? What are abalone?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

What is abalone? What is an abalone? A baloney question mark. Ablone are an iconic species. You can find them worldwide, but they are a type of marine snail. Here in California, we have seven different species, and they have played a really important role in California's culture dating back to the indigenous people. They would use them as fishing hooks, as jewelry. There's even evidence that they were used with monetary value as trade. But then we're also really heavily used for food. So a lot of cultures relied on them for food. And now white abalones specifically are endangered species because of this. So they were actually the first marine invertebrate ever to be listed on the Endangered Species Act back in 2001. Truly iconic animals. Very good.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

They were the trend centers, unfortunately. Unfortunately, yeah. A portrend, but we are still we still consider them icons at the end of the day. I was going to ask you, so I think that there is benefit to doing a larger abalone episode at some point because the aquarium's been involved with the White Abalone project for 13, 14 years now? Almost 20, actually. Much longer than 2007. That that project is an almost legal drinking. But when you received 2,247 abalone at one and a half years old, how big are the abalone?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

You know, it varies quite a bit because with 2,247 individuals, they're not exactly uniform. But our largest when we received them was around 20 millimeters. I think we maybe had one that was a little bigger than that. So if you guys think of the size of a quarter, we're we're talking around that size. And our smallest were maybe at maximum five millimeters. So the white on your fingertip basically.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

We just both looked.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

So there's qu there's quite a big uh size variation between them. But at one and a half years old, they're not very big yet. I think the max size of a quarter.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

It's crazy that they take so long to get to the size that we maybe want to put them out. And so I think similar to what we're doing with mountain yellow-legged frogs and with our Sea Otter Surrogacy project, the component that we are primarily doing in this project is head starting, right? And so we're receiving young juveniles, rearing them until they are a better size, and then releasing them or outplanting them in the case of abalone. What size are we looking for to release the abalone?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

The smallest size we look for to release abalone is about 25 millimeters. So that quarter size. So a few of them that we got were actually ready to be outplanted at that point, but we really try to keep the population together and outplant as populations. And as a program, we try to be strategic about ensuring that we have abalone available twice a year. So even though we had a handful of them that could be outplanted with this fall outplant, we really wanted to save that population for the spring when we can outplant a larger number, hopefully targeting additional outplanting sites. Have you gotten to go on outplanting yet? I have actually my second day at the aquarium.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

It's really critical. I got to go on a boat. That's cool. I've been on a couple and it's really fun, but I get so seasick because you're just posted up out there in the middle of the ocean. Just and everybody's having such a good time, and like it is a really wonderful day, and there's food, you guys cook, but it is a gnarly day for someone who's seasick, so I applaud you.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

It absolutely is a you gotta be prepared for that day. Is it so when we're releasing or outplanting them, are we typically diving and then putting them down on the seafloor? And then do we protect them in some way, shape, or form? Like, how do we best set them up for success?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Absolutely. So we use these little baskets basically. I'm saying that as if it's a very simple term, but they're these basically really long plastic tubes that have a good-sized mesh to essentially keep the abalone in, but also keep predators out. So the reason we like using these mesh type baskets is because it allows for seawater to flow through the baskets. So our dive team, so we have a scientific dive team here that participates in the outplanting alongside some of our partners. We will stock the pods up with abalone and ample amounts of kelp for them once they get down there. And then we attach them to concrete bases essentially, and we'll position those bases near suitable habitat for them. So we'll look for rock crevices, areas where we see good algae, and we also monitor these sites for a very long time before ever even putting the abalone here. So we make sure that they're really great habitat for the abalone. And then sometimes we'll pop those pods open immediately on deploying, and other times we'll go back and revisit that site about a week later and open the pod then to give them time to acclimate.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Nice. That's really cool. I kind of wish I could go out on that, except for the C sick thing. I think that would happen to me. So day two, you released abalone, and then pretty recently you've also received then 2247 new abalone. And I'm guessing that is also in addition to whatever we have on site. And are we also breeding them here?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

We do, yeah. So we have in total, let me see if I can do the math off the top of my head. 24 plus 15. 39. So 39. We have 39 broodstock abalone here, which means that those are abalone that will stay with us for quite a while, most of their life, and will participate in joint spawns once or twice a year, where we're essentially looking to get gametes from them. So those gametes are then fertilized and later used to outplant the abalone once they're nice and big. That is cool. I think we have to do a full abalone episode.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

I know, we'll have to dive into that literally quickly. Maybe we'll do it live from the boat and we can both be seasick.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Yeah. On the pod. Yeah, I think if we do a full episode, we can talk a little bit more about the project. But it sounds like you've pretty much jumped straight into abalone, and that was pretty much a large component of your background coming into the aquarium too, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Absolutely. Yeah, I've been doing this project for a while now, so it's been really exciting to first of all get to s go on my first outplanting boat trip since starting here, since previously that wasn't a component I was a part of. But yeah, get to build up this program and really start putting some large numbers to it.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Amazing. Aaron, you mentioned surrogacy for a second. Do you want to touch on some surrogacy updates?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

So Seattle Surrogacy is something that we are doing in conjunction with Monterey Bay Aquarium. And functionally, our program's been up and running for about a year and a half now, which is great. We have been actively participating in some surrogacy efforts, which is really nice to see, and working pretty closely with Monterey Bay Aquarium. There will be some updates, I think, that will go out more formally, potentially news updates and things like that as things go on. But for now, all I can say is we are participating in surrogacy, and we are very happy with our ability to kind of augment the population of sea otters off our coast because it's a really important program, and we're very excited to be partners with Monterey.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Yeah, it's a wonderful program. And if you're interested in learning more, we actually, our very first episode is all about sea otters, and we talk a little bit about our surrogacy program as well. So just scroll back in your feeds and you will find that.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah. It is pretty cool. We've been doing a lot of stuff. Sea otters probably would eat abalone, however. Sorry. Yeah, sorry. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

You do not need to apologize. It is all about balance.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

But thank you, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:40

You want the full circle. Exactly. Keystones all around.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Ecosystem approach.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Thankfully and not thankfully, there are no sea otters this far south. And so the abalone we're outplanting are safe from predation from the most voracious mammal in the ocean. For now. So day two, abalone release. Day whichever it was, more abalone coming in. We're doing abalone spawns. You're not just the abalone conservation manager, though, you also are part of Pycnopodia. So Sunflower Stars, tell us a little bit about what it looks like to manage the program.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, the Sunflower Sea Star program is a really exciting one. The Aquarium of the Pacific was actually one of the founding members of our AZA, which is the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, SAFE, which stands for Saving Animals from Extinction Sunflower Program, in addition to one of the founding members of PCOR, which is the Pacific Coast Ocean Restoration Initiative. So the aquarium plays a really important role in both of those programs. So it's been really exciting to kind of step into that. Here on site, we have seven juvenile sunflower sea stars that were reared back in 2024. They're actually one day younger than the abalone that we received, which is really funny. So the the juvenile sunflower sea stars were fertilized on February 14th, Valentine's Day. So they are called the Cupid Cohort. Oh, that's so the abalone for reference would then be February 13th. So they're one day apart.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

She can share that with our Osprey population. Shout out Warren. But I guess it makes them brothers, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah. To me. In aquariuses. Yes. They're Aquariuses.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

That works out really well with just Aquarius. Oh a fellow Aquarius at the table. I am.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I'm February 16th, so just two days apart.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

You're also brothers with them.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

So I am one of the brothers.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Sunflower stars, White Able and then Johanna, all brothers. They were basically triplets, if you were to think about it that way. That makes total sense to me. So we have juvenile sunflower stars here.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

We bred them here. They weren't reared here, but they were part of a collaboration that the Aquarium of the Pacific was a part of. So some of the gametes from our historic populations were utilized in the fertilization of these juveniles. And so we got them when they had settled. So if you aren't aware, they take about 50 days to settle. So we got them somewhere after 50 days post-settle or post-fertilization. How big are they now? Right now, our largest one is getting close to 50 millimeters. Wow. And really exciting. If you want to come measure it yourself, you can actually see it on exhibit.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Two corners. Two quarters. Or a half dollar. Yeah, I was like, is that is that even out he, she, we don't know. We don't know. Obviously. But they are so cute on exhibit, and it's the first time we've ever had baby sunflower sea stars on exhibit. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

That's correct. Yeah. Which exhibit are they in? They are in Rocky Reef, which is on the second floor in the Northern Pacific Gallery.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Yeah, so since you last heard a podcast episode from us, we launched our Stars of the Sea summer program, and that's gonna go all the way through next year. Part of that has been a launch of a new exhibit called Our Living Coastline, and we're gonna have fan favorite Brooke Hernandez back to speak on that in a future episode. But yeah, it's stars everywhere all over the aquarium, but especially highlighting this crucial conservation effort that Johanna is a part of. So you should definitely check it out. There's sea stars highlighted all around the aquarium with special signs. They're very beautiful, and you have to see these baby sunflower sea stars. They're so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

They're very cute. They are, they're so cute, and they're not gonna stay small for long. These stars get up to three feet in size, so they are very large. In fact, some argue they're the largest in the world. So you gotta get them now while they're while they're cute and little. And they're the fastest, right? And they're the fastest, yeah. Does anyone argue that something else is the largest in the world? Well, you can argue some tropical species. So there's a few that come close.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

So sunflower stars are more temperate than and only live in colder water. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

We also have a sunflower star episode. Um back from our first season as well, so scroll back in your feed to find that if you'd like to learn more. And we'll continue to update you on all things sunflower. Picnopodia.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Picnopodia, which is a really fun word that I still don't always know how to spell properly. It is a little bit tricky.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

It is it is hard.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Can you spell it right now?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Oh god. P P Y P P Y C N O P O D I A. Yes, that was right.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

No, you could have said anything in the city. I passed the spelling, right? This is actually why we brought you on, it's just to test your spelling. So Sunflower Stars and White Ablony are both projects that the aquarium was a part of prior to you joining us, as well as one other sort of burgeoning initiative, which was bulk help, right? And so how do you participate in and or what does that project look like to do bulk kelp conservation?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

The bulk kelp project is really cool. So we are one of three facilities that are holding the gametophytes, which is basically the reproductive material of kelp, if you've ever thought about that before. Which is what I think about.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

I always think about it.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah. They are not quite they look like plants, but they don't reproduce in the same way that plants do. So they have this really specialized genetic material essentially. So we keep those gametophytes in a fridge here. It's basically a souped up wine cooler. It is. It is. And it has special light and we control the temperature. And each of those gametophytes are held in a single tube. So we have hundreds of tubes in this fridge that we have to do water changes on twice a year. So only twice a year. Yeah. Throughout the year, we remove that water and we put in new water that has really small amounts of nutrients in it to ensure that the gametophyte doesn't grow too large because we want it to stay in this little test tube. So essentially, what we're doing this for is that we're holding those gametophytes in the event that the bull kelp forests of Northern California and further north ever disappear. So we are a copy of a copy of a copy, essentially, to back up this genetic information to ensure that in the case of any catastrophe, these forests can recover. In case of emergency, break wine cooler.

unknown 19:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

How many other institutions have bulk help libraries?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

We're one of three.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Oh, okay. So it's nice that we have sort of all that redundancy. Are they kind of in a deep freeze until we're ready to use them?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

We're not quite freezing them. They're being held in cold water, but they are in water, so we don't want to fully freeze them. Probably wouldn't like that. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

I don't know if they'd like that being a nice. Interesting caring for animals and also a very important plant species, and also kind of treating the plant species like an animal because it's alive, it's I'm making it make sense in my head. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

It is. It is interesting. And kelp is its own whole thing. Like I didn't realize before coming, like I grew up in Hawaii, so I didn't have kelp around. There's different types of algae, but they really don't exist in the same way. I very recently went diving for the first time here in California, which was cool, but there was a lot of kelp everywhere. And it's not something you're really used to unless you've ever been diving in a kelp forest. And it is so beautiful and it is so abundant that it is hard to imagine a world where kelp is endangered or not doing the best. What is happening with the bull kelp? Why are we preserving them? Why are we worried specifically about that species?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

So kelp in general thrives in really cold water. It loves the coast of California specifically and the Pacific coast because of our upwelling that we get here. So we get really cold, nutrient-dense waters from the deep ocean, essentially, which help these species to survive. But as our oceans are becoming more acidic, and as our oceans are warming, we are losing these kelp forests because they're not getting the same nutrients and they're experiencing much higher summers, essentially, much warmer waters than historically they have. So these kelp forests are essentially losing their ability to thrive off of our coast.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

In addition to urchin predation, which is exacerbated by the loss of Keystone species like the sunflower star, which do eat urchins and sea otters. So very interconnected. And abalone also get eaten by those things. So they are also connected. But it must be interesting to manage so many different projects that are both separate, but also functionally all caused by the same thing. And I think ultimately ties together why we have the job that you and I have, which is conservation manager and what it is that we're trying to accomplish here. So I know it's three months in, but you're already doing everything, so I'm gonna already ask the hard questions. Why is conservation important and sort of what does your job do to help conservation?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah, I mean, I think some of what we've talked about already really highlights why conservation is so important, is that it really is a web, and we don't even fully understand all of the connections yet of our kelp forest ecosystems. But conservation essentially is important because we're Protecting the biodiversity of these ecosystems, which in turn provides us with great resources like protecting our coastlines, helping us to provide food, but it also provides habitat for other species. So it gives other animals off of our coast a place to live, and it really essentially in whole makes our ecosystems more resilient to climate change. So the more biodiverse our ecosystems are, the more resilient they are. So conservation is really necessary at this point. I mean, speaking for my species alone, abalone were known to be around about 80 million years ago, is the oldest fossil we have for them. Wow. Sea stars predated dinosaurs by over 200 million years. I mean these kelp forests are thought to be about 32 million years old. So these species have been around for quite literally millions of years, and in just a few decades they've become extinct or close to being extinct. And so I think it really is part of our role and our responsibility to help conserve these species and intern the ecosystems.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Thank you. A lot of those anthropogenic factors and human cost factors are what seems to be accelerating the rate at which we are losing species and losing biodiversity. And it is really cool to have known of these projects and known that we are participating in them. But now, especially because, like we said, they're so connected and they're also related to the kelp forest and preservation of that ecosystem. It's really cool to see all of that work being consolidated in one person because I think that is also symbolic of the interconnectedness of how much these projects really overlap. So it's been really cool to have you here. And how have your first three months been busy?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

They've been busy, but in all the best ways. I mean, this I grew up here in California and especially in Southern California. So these are the waters that I grew up swimming in. And, you know, I I really have grown with this like stewardship. My parents really instilled that in me for our coast and how important our coast is. So I think being able to be in a role now where I'm really getting to play a deep role in a lot of this conservation work has been so fulfilling and so exciting. So it's been busy, but in all the best ways.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Well, Aaron, I want to throw a similar question to you. What inspires you about conservation?

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Similar. I grew up in Hawaii and I grew up being able to see really the best of the best of everything in the natural world. Like the most pristine ocean, the most pristine beaches, rare birds that you'll never see anywhere else, and like learned a lot about speciation and how unique and special everything that we had was. And I think it was really difficult for me to move away from Hawaii and feel like that mindset wasn't as universal as potentially it was when I was growing up in an environment where that was very much at the forefront of how everyone thought and how everyone acted. And so I moved to the East Coast for a little bit. It was very jarring to see someone star trash on the ground. Like I've never seen that in my life, and it seemed so alarming to me that people live this way. And I understand that that isn't ever really meant to do harm. Like people aren't doing that intentionally. And so I think it's been this long journey of trying to figure out how to show someone what is special about the natural world and why they should just think a little bit more before they interact with our natural environment. And that is both very challenging because everyone comes from different backgrounds, and by no means do I ever want to shame someone or make them feel less than for not knowing about something, but there is also so much cool stuff I want to show them, and all of that cool stuff does go away if we don't sort of communally come together and work on some of these things. Plus, I now really get to be involved with a lot of rare frog species. And that is pretty cool because we don't really I get to work with species that people have never seen before. Like I think that is very cool and fulfilling in its own right. But then also, there is periodically these very weird and weird in the most positive way, herptile people or frog-loving people who come to the aquarium and are like, I have never seen a mountain yellow-legged frog, but I have spent years looking for them. And it is so cool to just be able to show someone the 780 that we have behind the scenes and be like, these guys are going back out in the wild and they're going to be released at some point. And so I think it's all about finding ways to inspire people and connect people to that, and also just to find what resonates with every individual, because it's always going to be different. And it's been cool because I have very little connection to the fish and invertebrate side of things that we do here at the aquarium. And so when people would come and do these tours, I can show them sea otters, I can show them mountain yellow-legged frogs, I can show them whatever else we have going on. But then they'll be like, Hey, what about the kelp? I'll be like, ooh, I don't know as much about this. Yeah, we have this cool fridge, but I'm not sure. I don't know if they're frozen, I don't know anything about it. And so it's been really nice now to have sort of my my equal to counterpart. Yeah, counterpart. Exactly. Probably more than equal at this point, I think you're doing 2,000 to my 780, so I think that we are we're doing very similar things. It's just cool to have someone that I can reference and sort of know they have that same ambition and repository of information, but about projects that I can't know that much about because my head would explode.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Speaking of your frogs, you want to give an update on all things frogland? Yeah, I'll keep it brief because we know a lot about these frogs anyway. But we We also have a mountain yellow-legged frog episode a couple seasons ago. Check that out for more information on the mountain yellow-legged frog.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

It's just me talking a lot about frogs. So as of right now, we have released 638 mountain yellow-legged frogs. The last official count, I believe, was maybe five or six years ago, but it was 188 adults in the wild. Since then, unfortunately, we have had some wildfires that have impacted their habitat. One of them in particular potentially burned about 95% of the usable habitat for this already endangered species. And during one of the site surveys, they also noticed a high incidence of chytrid fungus, which is unfortunately a disease that is very deadly for amphibians in some of the usable habitat, and they did see a population crash. So the species isn't doing the best in the wild right now, which is why we opted to take on more individuals for head starting this year. So across the five holding spaces that we have for these animals, we currently have 780 animals, which is a lot. The recruitment rate for this species in the wild is about 1% from egg to adult. We're very fortunate in that when we receive them as tadpoles up until release, we've been seeing historic, like on average, 60 to 70% survivorship, which is great. Obviously, there's a lot of things that go into that, and obviously all the frogs that go out don't survive as much as in my heart. I really wish that I feel it all. I feel that one. Yeah, it's it's devastating a little bit to be like, I really hope you do good out there. But when we went out on a site survey, we actually saw one of the frogs that we released last year. And I think for the first time I knew for a fact that was one of our frogs because those that site was empty the previous year. And I think it was Big Chicken, who I think I've referenced had to be Big Chicken for. But we lives on. She's out there, she's making babies. But we saw three or four mountain yellow legged frogs. One in particular was very large, and I think that because they hadn't seen any, and the only animals they released at that site last year were ours, they're very likely to be ones that we reared. So very fulfilling to see a few of them, and then I actually got to go out on the release as well with LA Zoo, and they released some tadpoles and we released some of our young frogs. So it was nice to kind of have this everyone comes together and does this amazing thing together. So 638 is our current release number. If I hit a thousand, I can retire, is what I keep telling everyone.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

No. No, no, you can't still podcast. I'll just do full-time podcasting. Yeah. A million frogs. I think, yeah, up until a million. That's a way better.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

There's not that many of them. They do reproduce by the thousands, but I feel like a million is a thousand thousands, and I don't know that we have space for that. That's a lot. It is a lot. But the other really cool thing that we got to be a part of this summer that took up a lot of my time, but was totally worth it, is the National Park Service reached out to us with a project to head start California red-legged frogs. And they had collected these egg masses from these streams that were being adversely impacted by very late winter storms. So when there was a ton of rain, basically these egg masses would then just get washed downstream and the tadpoles would very likely not hatch out or survive. But they collected partial egg masses just for a captive assurance population, which is just us holding onto them and rearing them here. And we were able to rear and release 587 tadpoles, which is fantastic. So red-legged frogs are a threatened species and a species of special concern here. And it was really cool to work in conjunction with National Park Service, and they sent some pictures of them pouring the tadpoles into the stream, which was really cool. So that it's been a very frog summer.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

How many different colors of legs are there in Frog World? I think yellow and yellow.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

But there's also Sierra yellow-legged frogs. Like there's other yellow-legged frogs. There's probably other red-legged frogs, but I don't know. And so I don't know why they're naming them just by leg color.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

So specific.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

But it's been a very froggy summer. And we've released about 700 amphibians in some way, shape, or form, even just this year, which is pretty cool too.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yeah. It's been a pretty intense year here in California. Of course, we started off the year with our detrimental wildfires. The aquarium has assisted with several animals as a part of the disaster response, including some Tidewater gobies, and I'll include a link to that in the show notes of the social media story we did on those. It was a really, really beautiful release day that we did on those little tiny little fish that are so impactful, and it was such a collaborative effort. I'll include some notes on that in the show notes, so stay tuned for that.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

It's been cool. It's been busy. Yeah. Therefore, not podcasting very much to say. I know. We're getting back to it. We're getting back to it. And now we have a whole new person to interview about Abalone. I have a feeling we will not have any issue filling an entire hour with Abalone. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Maybe two. Maybe we interview an abalone.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

And I think it'll be even better than Lola. As silent as Lola. We had had our sulfur crash at Kakatoo on the podcast in this room. We were very excited to interview Lola, and he, I think the silence of this room, and I've never seen that bird be quiet in my life, but he was He's just yelling an admin today. Screaming out here, came into this room, closed the door, and he didn't make a sound the entire time. And we couldn't even for like seeds and treats and things that he liked, he would not talk.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Well, abalone are always silent. So maybe they're gonna come in here and scream.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Abalone are gonna start reciting a poem. What would you do if they just started making sounds while in here? I think I would probably cry. That would be an amazing discovery for our podcast. That's true. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

That's what we need if you can make that happen. That would be awesome. So I need to think about like what the first question I would ask them is Why? What do you like to eat?

SPEAKER_02 32:56

And it's macrosys.

unknown 32:58

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Algae. Algae. More algae.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yeah, we're feeding them. Do we grow the kelp that we feed them? We don't grow the kelp, but we do grow some dulles, which is a red algae species. I say grow in very light terms. We purchase it and then it grows slowly. So it's growing a little bit as we feed it, but we usually do have to restock.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

But we are growing a microalgae, a diatome specifically, that they love to eat called navicula. So it's actually really nutritious for them when they're young because it's really lipid-rich. So it kind of helps them as they grow up. And we're actually looking to do a little bit more specialized diets in the future for our brood stock, those ones that will stay with us, because it's thought that the lipid-rich navicula is really great for females who are developing egg yolks, but not quite as great for the males. We want them to stay nice and lean. So we'll be using that species quite a bit moving forward. As a female, I love lipid-rich foods too.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

So I can totally review. That is actually the scientific paper is all females want something that's lipid-rich at all times. That's pretty cool. Yeah, we can easily fill a whole episode on abalone. Their favorite foods, what they like, what they don't like.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Poetry reading. Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

From them. From that. That's the only poetry we accept on this podcast. Abalone poetry.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

I love it. Well, thank you both so much for chatting with us about conservation. Any last words about conservation that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

I think that one thing that is so inspiring about doing conservation work is that it will never be one person. It will never be one institution. It really is the collaboration between partners that leads to the success of these programs. And so I think that's one of the most inspiring parts of being in this line of work is that you're surrounded, like Erin said, by so many people that care about all the same things that you care about and are equally as passionate and equally as driven. And it really pushes you to like it it builds on that, you know, like it's an energy that you can kind of feel and it makes everyone really excited to do the work. So I I really do love the collaboration aspect of it. Something that's really special in this in this line of work.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Definitely. Shout out to our partners.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Should shout out to all frogs and snails.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Shout out to the snail people. Yeah. There's a surprising amount of snail people. Yeah. There are. Rightfully, rightfully so. Okay, you're right. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

She's like, I'm one of them. Yeah. Cool. Thank you so much for joining us for this little conservation catch-up. Thanks for helping me. So yeah, thanks for being on the podcast. Okay, you guys got to go back to being critical to conservation efforts. Joanna probably has to go on a dive right now. Yeah, literally now. She has to go due to the water.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

In the water? It's calling me.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I have to go be with my snails now.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Just saying check back in the Northern Gallery in a mere few weeks because we will likely have juvenile bulk help back on exhibit. Where? It'll be right next to our sunflower sea star, actually. So in Bays and Sounds. Nice. It's a beautiful habitat.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

In Bays and Bays and Sounds. Cool. Aquarium of the Pacific is brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, a 501c3 nonprofit organization.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

Keep up with the Aquarium on social media at Aquarium Pacific on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

This podcast is produced by Aaron Lundy and Madeline Walden. Our music is by Andrew Reitzma, and our podcast art is by Randy Kenney. Special thanks to Cecile Fisher, Anitsa Viez, our audiovisual and education departments, and our amazing podcast guests for taking time out of their day to talk about the important work that they do.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Podcific is impossible without the support of the aquarium's donors, members, guests, and supporters. Thanks so much for listening.