How do we keep our animals enriched?

Enrichment is the word of the week! We are joined by two animal enrichment experts, Alex Lasser-Gold and Alex Bohardt, aka Mammal Alex and Fish Alex. Lasser-Gold (Mammal Alex) is a Mammalogist II and Enrichment Coordinator, and Bohardt (Fish Alex) is our Manager of Aquatic Sustainability. Both have extensive knowledge of enrichment for animals that live above water, below water, and those that spend time in between.

Episode Transcript

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hi, I'm Marin Lundy, and I'm Madeline Walton, and this is Aquarium of the Pacific. A podcast brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, Southern California's largest aquarium.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Join us as we learn alongside the experts in animal care, conservation, and more.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Today we are going to talk about enrichment, and we have two Alexes on the podcast today. We have Alex Lasser Gold and we have Alex Bohart.

unknown 0:32

Alex is.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

But for the sake of this podcast episode, would you mind if we called you Mammal Alex and Fish Alex?

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Yeah, go for it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Which I realize is kind of unfair because you are a mammal.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Are you a fish? I mean sometimes. Why, you know, why not? Um, cool. So we are gonna talk about enrichment today. And this is gonna be interesting too because we have two people on today kind of talking about the same thing, but like I said, on both sides. Um so feel free to interrupt each other, feel free to talk over each other, do not be respectful at all to the other guests.

unknown 1:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

We'll brawl.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Yeah. Oh, it's a debate over whose enrichment is better, and then we just sit back and it's quiet. That's all I want to see after your fight.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Exactly, exactly. Um, maybe we can start a little bit with what is enrichment? I actually have the definition right here.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Ooh, point for fish alley. Win. Uh so this is from the Association of Zoos and Aquariums.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yay, and TA. Shout out.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Woo! Uh so it is a process to ensure that the behavior and physical needs of an animal are being met by providing opportunities for species-appropriate behavior and choices, which sounds very official. Uh, but basically, it is changing their environment in a way that they can do natural behaviors that they don't necessarily get to do if we aren't providing them with new things to play with and working their mind and different foods and changing up their environment so that they have to think and do those natural behaviors. Which is kind of also a long-winded definition.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Sorry. I think the, you know, the definition that AZA gives is so sort of like vague because enrichment is a pretty broad term and it doesn't necessarily only encapsulate like toys, which I think people are like, oh, enrichment is a toy. But sometimes enrichment is other sensory input and things like that. And I know, Alex, with some of our mammals, you definitely incorporate those things, right? Oh, absolutely. Mammals, Alex, sorry. Mammals, Alex here.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yeah, that's definitely the AZA definition, I feel like, covers it pretty well. But I also think like I lay awake at night thinking about what is enrichment. I'm a liter I literally do. Like potential prices. It's pretty existential if you start thinking about it for too long, because ultimately our entire job here at the aquarium when we're taking care of animals is to make sure that their life is rich and diverse and parallels what you see out in nature. Um, and we do all of that every single day. And I think enrichment is just another layer of awesome input that we can provide that creates an even more holistic, balanced life for all the cool animals that we have.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

That's awesome. I think it's really like that's a daunting task when you're like, oh, I'm gonna recreate the entire world that this animal might experience in its natural habitat here at the aquarium. And so, fish, Alex, what are some of the ways that you might incorporate enrichment in with some of the animals that you take care of?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Uh yeah, so it's very specific to different animals because there's kind of easier enrichment, like for an octopus, you can provide them with toys and things that they'll they have to think and they have to use their brains to figure out, change up their environment so they have to recreate their dens. Um and then you have kind of more difficult enrichment, like how do you enrich a coral? Yeah. How do you enrich a coral?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

So hold on.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Do we enrich our coral? Yeah, we do actually enrich our corals. And we mostly do this through food. So, yes, corals do also eat. They don't just photosynthesize. Um, so they obviously have very small mouths, depending on the size of the coral. Some coral species do have larger mouths, but it's providing them when we dive with some of these smaller food items that will actually kind of feed directly to them, and that gives them enrichment, as well as uh maybe moving them to another part of the exhibit so they can thrive a little bit more. Vacation. A little vacation, a field trip.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

I am so excited to tell people that coral gets enrichment.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

I am so ready for the city.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Most people don't even think about that. No. But yeah, so it it definitely varies in the fish world because there's so many different types of animals.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah. I mean, you have corals which a lot of people don't necessarily even recognize as an animal. And then you have like really big charismatic animals like sharks or rays or octopus, which I'm sure expect different types of enrichment, and apparently see turtles too. But we'll get to the turtles of the turtles. Um, what about you? What does enrichment look like in the mammal, bird, and amphibian world?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Uh it varies really widely depending on the species and even like depending on the individual animal that we're looking at. But uh for some of our animals, like our otters, that are really tactile and curious by nature, um, just providing them with novel objects can be hugely stimulating. So if you ever pass by our sea otter exhibit, you're gonna see a lot of cool stuff floating, sinking all around.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

And you'll Alex made all of it. I made it all.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

It was all me. Um but it's it's all in there and it's all rotating to make sure that it's novel. But um, the way that we see them utilize that stuff really looks like play. I think a lot of times it is play. Um, so you'll see them like with an object just spinning in a circle, shaking, shaking a dog bone all around, you know, all kinds of like fun natural behaviors, things you would see out in the wild, maybe not with a dog bone. Shaking the dog bones. But you know, they're they're doing what they do best, which is being mischievous and manipulating objects, things like that. And then um for our seals and sea lions, who can be a little more choosy when it comes to objects. We've definitely had a lot of objects that we presented to them where they've been like cool and just kind of swam away, and that's totally okay too. Enrichment's about choice, and they get to choose how they want to interact. But sometimes a more powerful enrichment strategy can be adjusting their schedule. So um, we've had the opportunity to come in at night and feed our seals and sea lions, and uh feeding at dawn and dusk is certainly a natural behavior we see for those animals um out in the ocean, and we definitely saw a strong response. Um from almost all of them.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

And let me guess Parker was the one who didn't want to wake up.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Okay, so Parker is the last to wake up, that's for sure. And like what when he wakes up, typically he'll wake up, he'll look around, he'll start yelling. Same thing. He's like, stop. Also my mornings. But the cool thing, what if we're talking about like how do we know if enrichment's working is over time, as we've done this more and more, I've seen him enter the water more and more, um, especially if it's during a season when he's hungry and eating. Um, so we'll toss fish into the water and it's dark, and that's definitely not something they're used to. Um, and they get in there and start foraging. It's really cool. So just adjusting schedule.

unknown 7:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

For context, Parker is our oldest California sea lion and can be a little bit of a grump if he is. He's our biggest one, yeah. He's our biggest, uh he is the loudest, and he definitely makes the biggest think about changes to his schedule. And so, sort of kind of going along with that enrichment is good because it kind of breaks him out of his shell, you know. If he's doing the same thing every day, he's getting used to it. And so incorporating some change to his schedule, even timing of his feeds or waking him up early, is enrichment. Whether or not he specifically enjoys it the minute he wakes up, it's questionable.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

100%. It's enriching and it's getting his mind going and working and a little bit of like frustration. Like when we're when we're doing a puzzle and you get a little frustrated for a minute, that's part of the experience of being alive. Like it's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

I'm so happy about that. When I do like a new board game or like a puzzle or something, if I'm not immediately like going gray, then like forget this. This is not an enriched animal. If I need to be enriched, this is this is actually for me. I'm gonna learn all about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I think you need Alex to come to your house at dawn and wake you up and throw fishing. Oh, cool. I'm awake now. 3 a.m. Thanks a lot. Thanks for watching. Mamble to Alex.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Cool. Um, well, I would love to hear a little bit more about your histories individually here at the aquarium. We didn't even talk about what your job titles are. It's technically not just enrichment, right? You have a whole world outside of enrichment that you have to take care of every day. So uh uh Fish Alex, would you like to go first?

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Sure. Uh so I am the manager of aquatic sustainability at the aquarium. Uh so majority of my job is actually working with our jellyfish and our aquaculture programs. Um, so we're really starting like the Picnapodia program, which I know you guys talked to Jen about already.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

That's season one, go back and listen. Yeah. That was our C SARS episode.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Um and so some of our conservation efforts and things like that, which is really exciting. Um, but I am also on the welfare committee. So I work pretty closely with the other people who do welfare, and a big part of our welfare programs is to uh incorporate enrichment because that is making sure the animals are acting the way they need to.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

And what about you? What about what's your background, mammal Alex?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

I am a mammologist here at the aquarium, hence mammal Alex.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Um, that's why we call you that? That's why that happened.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Also, because I'm a mammal. Yeah. Um, but that means I get to work with our seals, our sea lions, and our sea otters um with some birds sprinkled in there. Um I have been working here for somewhere around a year and a half, but uh before that I was a longtime volunteer. Um I love, love, love this place, and I just wouldn't leave. Um finally, finally got hired, but I think looking back at it, enrichment was a big part of what I did as a volunteer as well. And now I get to coordinate um enrichment for our bird, mammal, amphibian, reptile um collection of animals.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

You're briefly with us on the fish side.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I started as an Aquarius volunteer. He started as a fish and turned into a few evolution at work. It happens right here in this room. How did you end up coordinating our enrichment programs? Like either of you.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Um I think it was for me because I was so heavily involved in our welfare, it just kind of evolved into that. And we do have an enrichment um group, like a little committee for uh the fish side, so there's a person from each gallery that kind of gets together and helps to focus on different new enrichments and things that we can do, especially around holidays and the fun things that we can do for enrichment then. Um just kind of evolved that way.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

I think I just I love watching the process of enrichment, like I love watching um or trying different things. I love trying different things and seeing what responses we get. Um, and I also just love talking to people and enrichment is a team effort, and so I get to kind of worm my way into all kinds of different things that are going on. Like, I might not be part of the penguin meeting, but if my penguins are doing enrichment, I get to be like, Can I come?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Wait, are you solely the enrichment coordinator to be nosy? Can I sit in on every meeting?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, I think it looks like it's enrichment for you as well. Highly enriching for me. Um he goes home exhausted with great welfare up all night thinking about more enrichment and what it is. It's a selfish pursuit for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

I think it's great that you each sort of have your own like avenue into it, and I think it's really a salient point that enrichment is a huge part of animal welfare. And animal welfare or well-being as AZA may define it these days, is such a huge part of zoos and aquariums, and I think people don't always know about it. Do you want to touch a little bit on how enrichment and welfare are sort of interlinked?

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Uh sure, yeah. So uh we, as part of an AZA institution, are heavily involved in welfare, and I I do think it's transitioning into well-being now to encompass welfare as well as other things. And so we actually do assessments periodically. It depends on the animal and the enclosure as to how often we do these assessments, but we're constantly doing these assessments, and through those assessments, we're looking at their environments, their enrichment, and how they interact with their environments, how they interact with their friends in their exhibits, um, as well as the life support and uh the even down to like the lighting that they're getting. And we're scoring all these things, and if anything seems out of range or out of the ordinary, then we are immediately able to address that and make things better for those animals. So what's really helping with these assessments is doing enrichment because it allows these animals to do more of their natural behavior and interact with their cohorts, which is their other animal friends, in a more natural way. And we wanted that's our whole goal is to make sure their lives are as natural as possible in these settings.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Yeah, I think um one of the things that is one of the indicators on at least the mammal and amphibian and bird welfare assessments, I'm sure for the fish and inverts as well, is enrichment choice. And I love the wording of it because it says species appropriate enrichment. And so you're not gonna put a ball in with the coral. Like what are they gonna use it? You can try. Alex is like, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

I just imagine like those little tiny polyps, like with like a tiny beach ball.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Honestly, kind of cute. Maybe we should try it. But I think, you know, it goes back to what Alex was saying, like, sea lions typically feed at their carpuscular. They want to feed at dawn and dusk. And so feeding them at dawn and dusk is enriching to them. And so for some of the animals on the fish and invert side, what are some behaviors you're trying to mimic and what enrichment do you employ to get those behaviors out of them?

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Um so some things are like for animals that eat hard-shelled items is the opening of different things. So maybe we will feed them hard-shelled items every once in a while, but also to kind of make it more tricky is we will give them maybe a ball that they have to twist open, or um like a little clam that they have to open up, or an uh Easter egg. We use those a lot too that they have to open, or even freezing food inside ice because then that's something that they have to like dig at and start to try and open. So it totally depends on the animal, but there's lots of different ways that we can mimic that feeding behavior, which is a big one. Another one is there's a lot of animals that build their nests or build homes. And so we will sound so mean. Periodically, we will destroy those homes. In a good way. In the best way possible, so that they have to rebuild those things. So, like our mud skippers build tunnels. And so we'll every once in a while we'll fill in different tunnels so then they have to dig those out again. And that's just part of their natural behavior. Exactly what happened in the wild.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

So if the tide comes in and fills those holes in, then they have to dig new holes and uh it's go back to work. Ding my holes again. Oh no. Um so it's really important that we are we know those animals and what they do in the wild so that we can kind of come with creative ways to have them be able to mimic those behaviors. Do you ever feel mean like filling in the holes?

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I do a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

I think it's like I'm just kind of like, sorry, guys, you can take it out again.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

You're like, I know this is what you do all day. This is my best tunnel, yeah.

unknown 16:39

No.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Don't say that, you'll never do it again. I think it's funny when you, you know, you're incorporating things into these animals' lives that you're like, this is a stressor, and I know that it is a stressor because you now have to redig your tunnel and you have to redo these things. But is stress sometimes a positive thing for animals to experience?

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Some stress is good stress and things like manipulating temperature every once in a while. So, like if we do a water change and it uh raises the temp a little bit or lowers it a little bit on, like, say, the corals, that little bit of stress actually stimulates them to grow a little bit more. So it's like there's some stress is good stress if done in the right way.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

There's a metaphor there for sure. There's something.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Actually, I had a boss that used to say that. So some stress is good stress.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I think the same can definitely be said for our mammal bird and reptile and amphibian uh animals for sure. But we I think one of the things I've thought a lot about with the enrichment that we provide our animals is is it helping them to become more resilient individuals that live here at the aquarium? Um they live a really great life here, I think. And it is different than the life that they are living or that they might be living out in the ocean. Um here at the aquarium, our sea otters do not need to worry about a great white shark. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't still be alert and still have all of their senses stimulated in the same way they might be alert if there was a predator around. So I think enrichment is a great way to find those parallels that can create those same like maybe small moments of stress, but that also kind of builds strength that makes them um, I think it makes them it gives them an easier path to overcome challenges they might face in the future. If they change exhibits, if they have a new friend on exhibit, all of those things. I I hope that the enrichment we provide them allows them the opportunity to be more resilient and to feel like they can solve problems rather than just experiencing the same thing every day.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah. And maybe stress isn't even the right word, but more like changes, changes within their habitat, changes that they would potentially experience in the wild too.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

I think like our job and what we've done here at the aquarium, we've done such a good job of making habitats that are all meeting the parameters that all of these animals need that they get sort of comfy and complacent and they stop doing animal things. They're like, cool, I don't have to worry about food, I don't have to worry about predators, and then they just kind of hang out. And I think that on the one hand, you're like, that life seems really nice. But then on the other hand, you're like, what if no one ever came to my door? And then one day someone came to my door and rang my doorbell, I would jump out of my skin. And it's just sort of like, hey, just like mammals, Alex was saying, like building resiliency, it's really important to, you know, create new experiences for them that not every little thing is just going to stress them out because they're used to it and they've seen change.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah. What would be kind of the detriment of an animal not experiencing any enrichment?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

I think you I mean, I I don't think our animals here experience that, which is great. I think we have a strong enrichment program. Um but there are definitely recorded behavioral issues that um people see when an animal is understimulated or when they're not getting the enrichment they need. Um one word that people might have heard before is stereotyping. So that's when an animal exhibits a repetitive behavior, um, particularly when that repetitive behavior becomes so apparent in their life that it that it hinders them from doing other things. So if you're really bored, maybe you're just gonna tap your foot. Um, and that's okay for a little bit, but if you're tapping your foot all the time to the point where instead of swimming in your pool, you're tapping your foot. Instead of interacting with objects, you're tapping your your foot, that can be a problem. So we're always looking, at least on the mammal bird side, we're always looking for signs that an animal might need more input just to make sure that they're emotionally, physically, and mentally as healthy as they can be.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

And that's probably harder to manage in an efficient invert, or kind of harder to monitor, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:02

It it can be. So I think more so on our side, it becomes physical. They can develop like fatty tumors or goiters, things like that. Some of that is nutritional, but again, if you're not enriching them properly with the vitamins that they need in their diet, then you're you're not gonna get those things from those animals. And particularly in octopuses, uh autophagy when they actually will start chewing on their arms because they're not being stimulated. So they're like basically self-harming because they are not mentally being stimulated enough.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

So the octopus, and I know Brooke touched on the GPO last season. Um, she said that basically the octopus has its own whole enrichment. She has a closet of just octopus enriching.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

She has a full on stuffed closet. Now she's taking otter stuff. Well, the octopus needs everything. You know what?

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Goji deserves it.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Ooh, she deserves it.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Big animals, they can use the otter ones. Some of our other octopuses are a little bit smaller. They they just have a big tote full of toys. They don't have a whole closet.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

She has a play box.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 22:07

I think um just to add one more anecdote about enrichment kind of being good for animals and sort of what it can encourage, it not necessarily just stress in a negative way, but like poison dart frogs that I take care of, their entire reproductive cycle is based around when floods come and when rains come and flood their habitat and knock everything out of the way. And so changing the furniture around and flooding their habitat for a day actually stimulates reproductive behavior, which is healthy for them, and they won't breed unless there's environmental change. And that level of environmental change is enrichment because that's not their normal. Like I'm if every day I knocked all their stuff around, I don't think they'd love that. But if they saw it as a seasonal change and, like, okay, cool, here's my indicator that I should be doing breeding behavior, that is healthy for them, and that stimulates that natural behavior. So it can even go as far as to be hormonal changes in the animals when you do the right kind of enrichment. And I think it's pretty cool to see changes you do, and then all of a sudden you're like, there's eggs in this tank, you know, like these frogs are reproducing, they're doing things they're supposed to do. And I imagine for a lot of like fish and invertebrates, that's the same kind of thing that you would see as well. Yeah, very similar.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

We uh manipulate the water temperature and for jellyfish too, um, they'll start to spawn or change their light cycle. Like little things like that usually induce spawning. It's crazy that they at least get enrichment too. Like I'd love that.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Everybody does.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Enrichment's used in rehab facilities too, more and more. Like for animals that are being prepared to return to the wild, enrichment can be really important part of their uh recovery, which is really cool. It's something I'm just starting to learn about. I think it's awesome. Maybe it will apply to our surrogacy program at some point too. I'm sure it will.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

I think building resilience, you don't want otters that have mercy. Yeah, they're just like, listen, I had my needs met the whole time I was in there. Releasing that animal is not gonna do as well, but exposing them to some stressors that allow them to learn how to deal with that is gonna be really beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

So it kind of sounds like enrichment isn't only reserved for animals we deem quote unquote intelligent. Um, like our octopus or mammals, it's reserved for all other animals, right? Yeah, it's awesome. Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

What is your favorite uh enrichment for an animal that doesn't seem like it would get enrichment? Maybe this is a question more for fish alex, because I think most of mammals Alex's animals seem like they should be.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

We've got reptiles, we've got cool ones.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

That's true. Yeah. Okay, both of you. What is your favorite enrichment for an unexpected animal?

SPEAKER_03 24:39

The coral's pretty good. The the coral is a good one. Do you want me to talk about the turtle? Yes. Okay. So, yeah, so turtles do also need enrichment. And um, if they one in particular, if he doesn't want to get enrichment, he becomes very destructive and kind of rips apart the tank a little bit. And so we actually have built him a turtle girlfriend out of a track.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

And so everyone's gonna assume this is copper because copper was such a hot topic last season.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Copper is a little angel. I love that turtle so much.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

He needed PR, really, because last season was red to fill to fill in our turtle episode.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

He's such a good boy. He comes to a station when he's called. He is always sitting and waiting. If we have to do exams, he's like right there and he's like, I'm ready, just pick me up. Number one good boy is a turtle.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

It's Lou.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

It's Lou. Lou is the most destructive. And Lou's an olive Ridley turtle. Yep. And where does Lou live? He is in Soft Coral Garden. So it's the smaller side of the tunnel of Trap Reef.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Got it. And so Lou, in the absence of his artificial turtle girlfriend, will destroy Soft Coral Garden. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

I mean, he will do it probably anyways, a little bit uh when he's not sleeping. Those are his two hobbies is ripping corals out and sleeping. Uh but when he has his girlfriend, he's less destructive.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

We have a I had posted a video on TikTok of Lou redecorating when he was in Trop Reef, and people love it. Sorry to say.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

I'm sure they did. Every once in a while he would take a coral from like the tunnel and swim it all the way around the exhibit and like drop it in the deepest part. Of course. Like, I don't want it here anymore.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

He's redecorating.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

He also knows that it's difficult to get back to that spot if he puts it really far away. Do you think that there's some evidence, you know, like destructive behavior as we might deem it, like maybe it's self-enrichment. Do you think that there's a chance he's just trying to enrich himself?

SPEAKER_03 26:39

I mean, I think it's possible, especially for things like redecorating. Uh, we actually have one of our female sheephead who when she was in lobsters, when she was little and tiny, she would take the shells of the mussels that we'd feed the lobsters and pile them in different places, and then she would take rocks and pile them next to the shells. So she would she would literally decorate. So now she's bigger and she's in Blue Cavern. We don't see her decorating as much, but she's in a much more complex environment. But she used to decorate all the time, and I loved it so much. That's adorable.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

What about you? What are your reptile enrichment ideas, mammals alley?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

I this is another kind of case of me just like sticking my nose where, you know, it's like in someone else's department, but I'm like, that's cool. Can I watch it? But I've seen them do uh like for our some of our native snakes, I've seen them provide native herbs in their environment. And that can be a scent enrichment because snakes can smell, so it's like that's pretty cool to watch. Yeah, or with the gland kind of above the side. Yeah, that's what I meant. Somewhere in the mouth, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

That's what they're doing when they're doing the flicky thing. They're doing the flicky thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, and they're doing it at an herb, which is really cool. They're I I think it's really cool to see our reptiles explore new spaces and explore different, um, like they're we'll call it furniture rearrange, kind of like probably similar to the aquatic side, where we'll change um the various items in their environment. It might require them to climb more or to burrow. Um, and it's it's impressive how much response you see, um, especially if you look at it through the lens of a reptile. So they might not be spinning around in circles and smacking something against the wall like an otter would, um, but they're responding the way a reptile should, which is kind of more slowly and more, maybe a little more methodically checking things out. Are you saying otters aren't methodical about I feel like I would call otters the opposite of methodical almost.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

It's true. They just they're impulsive, they're incredibly impulsive. I love that for them. But I do think that you bring up a really interesting point of not just enrichment has to be species appropriate in terms of what inputs they have, because if a reptile couldn't smell, putting an herb scent around wouldn't matter to it. But it has to be something that that animal can perceive. And so, of course, you're not necessarily I don't actually know what corals can perceive, but like some like I don't know that sound would necessarily impact a coral, or maybe it would because of vibration. Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

They'll be more closed up with sound. Um flow is a big one too, if they're unhappy with their flow. Actually, corals are very picky on where they go and what they do. So it's like it has to be the right light level, it has to be the right flow. Depends on the coral, they're all different. Um but you'll see sometimes if you ever walk by a coral exhibit and they're like super fluffy and like I don't even know, pillowy looking and their little arms are out, like that is the happiest coral.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Now we know. So I guess that brings me to my next question. How do you measure the response to enrichment for different species? Like an otter is going to be different than the coral. A otter always looks soft and pillowy. So, how what sort of metrics do we use to measure how an animal is responding to enrichment, or is that something we record and measure?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Um, I think some of that is in our welfare assessments that we go through. And we do have, again, different assessments for each type of thing. So we actually have a coral assessment, we have a fish and invertebrate assessment, and then we have more specific for iconics, which are like our sharks and things like that. Um iconic sharks.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Uh but I think the biggest thing too is knowing, again, knowing your animals really well. So knowing what a lack of better term, sad coral looks like versus a happy coral. And not to the point where they're bleaching out and dying. Yes, that's healthy still. Very sad coral. But yes, a healthy coral that just isn't thriving. Uh is gonna be really closed up, their polyps won't be extended, their color might be a little bit muted. So that's a sad coral. And so we try different things with them to get them super fluffy and extend their polyps, not to the point where they're sweeping their tentacles and stinging their friends. But keep those things in. You stay away from me. Uh so it's yeah, it's just really understanding and knowing your animals is the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, I would again like I think it's pretty similar with mammals and birds and reptiles. You have to know that species and know the individual to kind of accurately interpret their response to enrichment. Um, for us, we have five general goals that we go by. We have sensory enrichment, we have social enrichment, physical habitat enrichment, food-related enrichment, and cognitive enrichment. Um and so when we present a like when we present an otter with a puzzle feeder or something that makes it a little more difficult to forage, often that's a cognitive goal. And so we're looking to see like, are they does are they spending time thinking about how to get the diet out of it? Sometimes we'll present something that's maybe a little too difficult and we'll see them look at it for about a second and be like, no, and just throw it away. And maybe that wasn't the most successful enrichment, but we did learn something for sure from that.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

One of my favorite ones um that we did maybe like last summer or two summers ago, we did uh watermelon stuffed with squids for the sea lions, and they wanted nothing to do with it. For a very funny video because I did like the lead up, like, you know, we're we're gonna hear it. And they're just like, nope, nope, nope. Which I don't blame them. That doesn't sound super appetizing to me. I love a watermelon salad. Doesn't they like appetizing almost? I feel like it could be a little refined and it like throw some feta on there, like a little bit of a flaky sea salt. Why didn't we do that?

SPEAKER_00 32:52

We we have a goal um for our sea otter program to um encourage our otters to use the water as much as possible. Um out in the ocean, they're gonna be using the they're gonna be in the water the vast majority of their lives. Um, here they live a very cushy life and they have a space on deck. There's a lot of rock work for them to hang out on. Um, but particularly now that we are starting the surrogacy program, we want Millie and Chloe, our adult uh female sea otters that are gonna be teaching everything to these pups that are going out into the ocean to teach those pups that the water is the safe place to be. Um so one of the ways we've measured success of enrichment in our program is by seeing if it encourages them to stay in the water more. Are these efforts uh ris resulting in more time spent in the water? And that's something you really can measure, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, some of the things are totally quantifiable in that way. Some of the things are evaluating the fluffiness of a coral. But if you are the person who knows that animal well, you are probably the best person to know whether or not your animal's responding positively to enrichment or negatively to enrichment, in which case you either rethink your strategy, hopefully, or maybe they kind of overcome stress over time. Um Madeline really wants to know something about challenges.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Um before I do, do you guys have a time that you need a heart out by? It's four o'clock now. I don't expect we'll record for longer than probably the next half an hour at max. At the most, yeah. Okay, cool. We got a lot of questions. Um okay. I want to know about your respective challenges with enrichment.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

What are some things that you know maybe are frustrating I think a big one is when an animal doesn't want a new enrichment, like they just they'll only work with their old ones that they already know so well. And it's and that can only be so enriching. Right? Like once yeah, so like when we were talking about uh measuring the success of enrichment, so something with cephalopods is how quickly can they figure out this new piece of enrichment? So if we put food in something, how quickly do they figure out how to open it? And usually the first time it takes a little while, and then they obviously start to learn it, it becomes something that they are easier at, so it goes faster and faster and faster. And then you the first time it's like really challenging enrichment, and then it, you know, starts to dwindle. So then you want to give them something different. And we do mix it up all the time, but like slowly introducing different things, and then every once in a while they'll just be like, No, I'm not gonna try.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

I want my old one back.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Yeah. I know. And they'll just like refuse because you know, we take care of them really well, so they just like, nah, I'm not gonna eat today. And like they know that we're gonna still feed them because we're gonna take care of them.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

And I'm like, just just play with the new thing. It's like if you were to hand someone a puzzle and they did the puzzle every day, and like, well, I'm I know I memorize a puzzle at this point, and then you're like, here's a new puzzle.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

I'm like, no, I'm gonna I'm actually really good at the other puzzle. When I do this one super fast, I get my food super fast. Yeah, so I'll just do the I don't wanna.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. Sort of on the mammal and bird side.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Um I think I think that uh if you ask people in the office. I already know what you're gonna say. It's uh about record keeping.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

The reason I know that is because I'm historically not very good about recording my enrichment. I will I will chase people down.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

I know you will.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

I know as a as a non-husbandry person, I know that.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

And I do that and I love it. Yeah, I I do my best to do it in like a cutesy fun way, but deep down, I want it recorded. Um and I think eventually all of that data will be really meaningful. Um, but even thinking about how we rate enrichment is hard. That's definitely a challenge. And um yeah, telling coming up to someone and being like, oh, you cuddled with that Laura Keet? Did you record it? Did you put that in tracks? They're like, I do that naturally with them all the time.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

So just like Were you recording it all the time?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Were you recording it every time you did it? So cuddling can be a form of enrichment? Absolutely. Social interaction. 100 have you met our is that announced?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

The baby, yeah. Laura Keet. We uh I think his name is Pegasus, his or her name is Pegasus.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Pegasus is the cuddliest, and it's definitely enrichment for him. You can see enrichment for me too.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

It's a new Lorikeet chick that we have. Just for content. It's not an actual Pegasus. We have a Pegasus. This is the big unveiling argument.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Like, how are we gonna have a pegas?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

No, yes, uh, the Pegasus. Um, but yeah, I mean that little baby bird just wants to be snuggled and have social interaction and also is practicing flying to people and being a bird. Awesome. And it's pretty cool to see. It's real cute.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

And thanks, AOP team. You're doing a really good job recording. I know I'm I can be a little bit more. Just throwing it on the I guess we kind of already touched on what you're recording, right?

unknown 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Never mind.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah, we like it's it's how well it worked, what we did. I do an enrichment of the month email just for just so everyone can see what's going on. I'm always inspired when I see what's happening on the Aquarius side. Uh, you guys just built essentially a scratching post on the sea turtle.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

We call it the sea turtle car wash. Oh, yeah. It's just a little scrub hut.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

They love it so much. That's going an enrichment of the month this month. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Oh my gosh, that's so cool. I love that. I in my seven years here getting to see the changes in enrichment and the fun stuff you guys come up with. The things that you guys are pulling off are really, really cool and it just gets better and better every single year. I love the new penguin enrichments. Um, those have been really cool to see. And just kind of the the way you all are able to use materials we have on hand. I think it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah, it's not always it often isn't buying new toys, and you know, it's just kind of putting things we have that we already know are safe and acceptable for the animals together in a novel way that they have never seen before, and sometimes even presenting something in a weird way is totally enriching for them. Um, I wanted to ask you both what your favorite enrichment story is from your history working with these animals.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

A few years ago, we had some baby alligators.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Oh I remember.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

I think these have come up before on the podcast. Very cool. They were amazing.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Mike talked about them. They were really, really cool.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

They were super, super cute. And uh Stacy was the Aquarius that took care of them, and she came up with actually target training them so they each had their own color and shape, and then from there she tried because they like to eat like all the time, but we obviously don't want to overfeed them. Um so she came up with giving them jello and ice cubes as enrichment too, so it'd be both in the water and on the beach, so they'd have to like go in the water and try and find it, and then go on the beach, and you Oh my gosh. They were so cute.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

They were really, really cute. They um they are part of when I first started our changing gallery. I think it was Vanishing Animals. Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

But they went back to a or another facility or it's yeah, it's I think it's like an exotic sanctuary in I want to say Colorado.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Hello. They're still getting ice cubes. Uh I think they're they're actually like, if I remember correctly, and I couldn't be totally wrong, uh, that they are being housed near a hot spring. So the water that they're in is like 80 degrees, so they probably exploded inside. Yeah, probably. And I don't even like ice cubes like wouldn't even cross their mind anymore.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Entire ice actually melting.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

They're just in a jacuzzi all day. That's good for them.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

I think um I'll just to clarify, when we say that animals are eating jello, it is unflavored gelatiness that you will see food coloring mixed in. It looks exactly like I've had guests ask me, like, is that cherry jello? And I'm like, no, I promise it's just unflavored gelatin, but it does provide some extra hydration and it can be reinforcing to animals to, you know, do the motion of eating, even though it's lower calorie and it's essentially just giving them water. Um, yeah. So don't think we're ever throwing like flavored jello at them. Blue raspberry friendly please. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Honestly. We even did it with our sharks, so you know, they obviously wanted flavored jello. What kind of flavor do you put in the shark jello? We didn't, we didn't flavor it. We just did the plain unflavored jello, but we were like sardine oil in there. Yeah, I mean we could have done some fish juice or something.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

I bet you know, you know those like old um cookbooks with like the weird jello. Someone made it sure like a sardine jello.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

It's called sardine salad, and it's like whipped cream and then sardine. That sounds amazing, actually. What about you? What's your favorite enrichment story?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Oh man, I like so many of them. I like any anything with otters and texture, I love. We've seen, I think, some of it on TikTok, otters putting their paws through like water. Otters using, we call it clam smoothie, which is just uh frozen clam that we blend with water, kind of smushing it around, giving them a bumpy toy, just watching them get so excited over something that seems so simple, but it really is stimulating for them. And then probably the most recent fun um enrichment adventure we've had has been with our Alcids. So our puffins, um, our crested ocklets, and our pigeon guillomots. These are birds that are particularly picky about what goes into their exhibit. And most of them are older too, right? So they're a little bit more set in their ways. They've got that Parker vibe, you know. Don't wake me up, it's early. So we we have been slowly trying to introduce things. Um, one thing we introduced was a rubber ducky, a large yellow rubber ducky, just to see a puff-in-sized rubber ducky. A puffin-sized rubber ducky, and oh boy. This is a good example of an ongoing adventure with them because their first response was either absolutely not, um, or like I will inch my way around it as like as far as I can get away from it, that's where I'm gonna walk. Um, but slowly they're getting more used to it. And we've now we bought them a little floating island. Again, at first they were like, not gonna touch it, not interested, and just watching them slowly um really start to utilize that. So now when you pass by the All City exhibit, it's something you're gonna see a lot. It's attached with airline tubing, um, which is the kind of like clear tubing you might use in a fish tank, weighted down with a dive weight. Sometimes there's even some fish tucked into the airline tubing so that they can forage for fish mid water column, supernatural um behavior that we get to stimulate. But watching those birds get more uh accustomed to seeing new things and hopefully watching them become more resilient has been really fun for me. Even when they're a little bit stressed, it's fun for me to watch them learn. Like I Imagine I don't have kids, and people with kids are probably gonna be like, nope, not like having a kid. But I really like watching them grow. It's really cool to watch them grow with these novel things we can present them.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

And soon they'll accept the rubber ducky as their leader.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Yeah, and soon maybe one of them, one of them needs a girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

The rubber ducky.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

She's beautiful. Yeah, one of them definitely needs a partner, so that rubber ducky is about the right size. You never know. It's about the right size.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

It's a little big.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

You'll have to discuss it with an apiculturist.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Yeah. Pretty sure this could work. We already have a sea turtle artificial girlfriend. Pretty sure it could be great. We may as well have a rubber ducky artificial girlfriend. And if you are ever walking by any of our exhibits, when you do visit the aquarium and you see something that looks out of place, chances are it is intentional and it is an attempt at enriching our animals' lives. And so if it's enriching you because you're stopping and being like, what is a rubber ducky doing in here? That is also what the puffins are thinking. Is a rubber ducky doing in here? And they're having the same reaction and hopefully they're getting something out of it.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yeah, sometimes people get concerned because they'll walk by our pinnaped habitat and see those big five five-gallon water bottles, right? That's actually an enrichment device. That's something. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Oh, yeah, it's so cool. I I when it sinks to the bottom, it is easy to be like plastic in the ocean, like this is pollution. Yeah. It's not, we promise. Um we take it out. We we do remove it. Um, hard, a lot of the like hard plastic things you see are that material because it's easy for us to sanitize, and that's a high priority. We want to make sure everything is healthy. Um, but that particular item we will fill with fish and ice and a little bit of water, and then it floats at the surface, and what our sea lines have to do is kind of belly flop on top of it almost to start to force water into the small opening until it sinks enough that the fish start to come out, and we see a really positive foraging response with that object. It's one of the favorites in terms of um like foraging devices that we present.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

So they get excited about it.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

They get real excited.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

That's so awesome. Okay, and with that, I think we have a couple of questions from social media to ask you guys. Um, do the animals get to pick their enrichment?

SPEAKER_03 46:14

No. Uh so we present them with different enrichments throughout their time here, but it's well, I guess that's not entirely true. Sometimes you'll give them multiple enrichments at one time and they get to choose which ones they want to play with and things like that. But the idea is to be changing it up all the time so that they can use different aspects of their natural behavior. So if you always just have all the enrichment devices sitting right in front of them to choose, it's not really giving them enrichment. For sure. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Also, sometimes we'll do TikTok lives and the audience will choose their enrichment. So stay tuned for that. That's really fun, especially if they're not our octopuses.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

And even if they're not choosing the object, they're they're certainly having the opportunity to choose their response. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Do you need to participate?

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yeah, if we provide something, if we provide a new item for a macaw and the macaw doesn't want to play with it, we're definitely not shoving it in their face. Right. And trying to force it. They they have the opportunity to interact with that object in a in the way that is reinforcing to them. Um, so in that way they have choice. And um, at least for sometimes we provide them with multiple options that can be really fun. Like we can provide them with multiple food items or multiple different types of toys or enrichment items, and it's cool to see which they pick. Um, otters are so easy to talk about because they interact so they interact so much with um enrichment items, but they are a great one to kind of test out those types of theories because they certainly have favorites when it comes to the objects that we present them. And if we present them three, there's often one they're gonna be like, that one is mine.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

And is it the same kind of thing where like if they do have a favorite they go to every time, are you maybe removing the favorite sometime so that way they do have to switch it up?

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Yeah, it's uh it's we definitely operate uh under the understanding that it is will eventually not be as interesting if it's always there. So we want it to be a treat. Just I like with kids, sometimes you know, you you take a toy out of the rotation for a little bit and then it's exciting again when it comes back. We don't want it to just become we don't want it to become floating trash. We want it to be something that they are really interacting with and using their time with.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

When we had Ollie, who is one of our sea otters that we historically had here, and she has since moved to a different institution. She's my favorite animal. Um, her favorite enrichment device that she would interact with without fail, no matter how many times it was in there, was a hard orange ball that was about the size of like a tennis ball. And it was just a hard plastic ball, and it was so much her favorite, and she so much knew that we were going to remove it that she would hide it from us. So we would come in to change up the enrichment, and that specific ball would just be nowhere to be found. Not in here. And then we would come back later and it'd be in her pocket, or she'd be hitting it on the window, and the minute you came around the corner, it was gone again, and you're like, okay. And so they definitely do have favorites, and sometimes, in rare cases, I'm guessing they don't ever really tire of those favorites. But I guarantee that the times that we've taken it out, she was like, Where where's my thing? Like it's always in here. Then she gets to look for it. Yep. And then she's looking for it, and then the next time she sees it again, it's like this beautiful reuniting of her and this orange ball. So it definitely depends heavily on the individual, but also, yeah, if they have it all the time, it almost becomes a it can be a dependency almost rather than like I'm choosing this and I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

So I was gonna ask, like, why wouldn't we just leave enrichment devices inside of the habitat? Is it for safety? Is it for the same kind of thing? Like they would get used to it. All the above.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

I think some we rate all of our devices. Some of them are supervise only, which means somebody has to literally be standing there watching the animal with that item. Some of them have to be taken out before the last staff member leaves, and then some of them we consider safe enough to just leave with that animal. But no matter what, we're watching.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

It doesn't usually depend on how uh destructive the animal is and how easily destructible the item is. Because I'm assuming with the sea otters, it's hard to probably leave something in there long term because they got those tiny paws and those sharp teeth.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

And we look at the integrity of everything when it does come out of the water, it's a good time to look at it and be like, how many tooth marks can I find on this object? We give our sea our sea lions these little toboggans. One of our sea lions, Kane, loves them. He tosses them in the air, which is a natural sea lion behavior when they're tearing um at a a prey item, maybe like an octopus. He'll play with it in the water column. I've seen him like stick it onto the tunnel wall and it'll suction and then like sitting there trying to figure out what happened. Um when we pull those out, we will, if they are damaged to a point that it would be dangerous, it's time to replace it, get them a new one.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Time for a new one. New toboggan.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

Someone really wanted to know about specific enrichment for both the octopus and the otters. We talked a lot about otter enrichment, but what are some of your favorite octopus enrichments?

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Oh, oh my goodness, there's so many. Um I always like when they have to play with either a boat or a submarine. So the submarines usually sink, and we usually we also have boats that float on the surface that are fully enclosed. Uh so they're they're like children's bath toys, is what they are. They really are. Uh that you can find them in our gift shop, I'm pretty sure. Uh but the the octopus has to figure out how to open them, and it's so fun to watch them at the surface sink these items and pull them all the way down. Uh, so that one's always fun. And then I I also really like when we and again it depends on the octopus because some of them just won't even do this. We have a box that will suction either to the window or the wall, and um we can put their food items in these Easter eggs and like kind of fill the box. Some of them have food, some of them don't. And it's them reaching in and pulling these different things out to open them, and then every once in a while they'll like climb in the box themselves and they'll just like sit in there and stare at you, and then they'll climb out again. That's so those are always really cool. That is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Um, kind of touching on that, have the animals ever used any of the enrichment that you've presented to them in an unexpected way?

unknown 52:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

I would say that's definitely something that almost always I feel like at some point they're gonna do something.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

I've seen a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

You know, a lot of things on top of heads.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

And Millie's little bracelet, and Millie, one of our otters, has this little ring that she wears as a bracelet all the time.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

She just posted a picture of it. It's on Instagram. It's real cute.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

What um fish and inverts are using their enrichment in unexpected ways.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Um as girlfriends. As girlfriends, yeah. Um we'll do uh these big ice cubes that are just full of different pieces of cut up fish and squid and shrimp, uh, throwing them into Trop Reef. The aim was to have that for the fish to pick at. Uh Copper has decided that that is his favorite thing, and he'll take it and like run away with it. Thanks. Which is always interesting to see like you in a mixed species environment where you will give this enrichment device to something. Thinking is for one thing, and some other animal's like, nah, this is gonna be mine now. This is what great is. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

That's amazing. So during um the pandemic when we were closed, did we have to kind of increase our enrichment efforts? Because I'm assuming that guests are also an enrichment for some animals, you know. The passing by, the waving. Sometimes we um invite our guests to participate in enrichment activities. Um, didn't we kind of have to increase our enrichment during our closures?

SPEAKER_03 53:52

I think we did in some ways. So, some ways we did it actively, in some ways we did it probably without even realizing we were doing that. So, also during uh COVID, all of our volunteers were no longer coming to the aquarium to help us with the animals, which included our volunteer divers. So uh we had to do a lot more diving, and it was at different times. We tried to keep it as consistent as possible for certain dive feeds, so because animals some animals are trained to go to certain stations during those times, but it would kind of vary with the times that we were diving and what we were doing. So, you know, volunteer divers, maybe like every Monday, some volunteer divers, meridian in Trop Reef. Well, we're not necessarily gonna stick to that schedule because we're trying to do so many other things. So it kind of, without us even realizing we were doing it, mixed up the enrichment for these animals.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

I remember um the one that surprised me the most and made the biggest difference, then they seem to have noticed the guests missing was the penguins. And I think that every day our colony of penguins would see so many guests coming by, waving at them, saying hi. And you know, it's an open-air exhibit. The penguins get basically full exposure to people just with a couple inches of acrylic between them. And then there was no people, and the penguins got real weird, and they like you would be maybe 40 feet away. They would see you and they'd be like, Hey, come over here. And they have this call that's called a contact call that's just this like one low sound that's like woo, and they would do it to you if you were so far away because people weren't walking by the exhibit anymore, and I think it was weird and jarring for them. And so we definitely started incorporating like more sessions or just sitting on the penguin beach with them and just having social hours with them and running back and forth at the windows. And in some ways, there were some things about being closed that allowed us to have that connection with the animals in a way that I think typically the guests do and we missed out on, but definitely they noticed. And it was weird to like all of a sudden, I'm the most interesting thing in this penguin's life because they're used to you know, thousands of people seeing them every day, and then it was just me in the corner, and they're like, come, just come, just come play.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

I feel like that's not an animal that's super interactive with guests, but it is, but then the lack of guests are just like, wait, actually, what happened? Where'd they go? Did you record it? Listen, did you log it in tracks? I'm just kidding. Listen. Just scroll back to 2020. It's a wheel there.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Probably not, but I was better about records back then, so I mean.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

We had a lot of staff enrichment during that time because bird and mammals were helping to feed tropical reef at the surfaces. Fish people started to learn how to feed the seals. It was it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

We did take penguins on field trips around the orange. They were that was very fun.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

And the program animals too. Yeah. They would go for walks around and say hi to the different exhibits. See all the different animals. It was a blast. It was some of the birds through the tunnel and stuff. It was always cool.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

We had a light during that time for sure.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Lola, who is either on in a future episode or it was already on um in a past episode. I can't tell what order we're in. Um, but Lola, the sulfur-crested cockatoo, went to go see the sea lions, and he and Chase really connected, and it was very cute, and it like it seemed like it almost clicked in his head that it was a sea lion because we had said it enough times. And he would just start like saying, like, what's a sea lion say over and over and over to Chase? And I was like, This is the cutest thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

No, he would walk around going, Art, art, art, art, and just nonstop. I love you. Art, art, art. It was really sweet, really cute. Um what I guess we kind of talked about this. What are some of the most creative enrichment activities you've been involved with? What would you say is kind of top tier?

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Top tier. Top tier.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

I oh, that's hard. Um I think a lot of our training, we have to get pretty creative with um target training and station training a lot of our animals. So uh there's a few different ways that we can do it. We do a lot of target training with our, I guess, more iconic animals and animals that we really want to make sure are getting certain diets instead of broadcast feeding, which is when we just kind of chuck a bunch of fish into an exhibit for the other animals to eat. Um and that, especially when they're first learning those targets, you always have to be really creative about how you get them to associate with those targets and to come over. Um and we've worked even with some of our smaller fish. Uh, so like one of our dog faced puffer fish is getting so cute. I saw the fish is getting uh target trained to a little ring because he's just he's very shy. The other fish are much more aggressive in there and they kind of take all the food when we do broadcast feeding. So we're we're training him to come over and eat. Um I would say zebra sharks are like the easiest food animals to train. Like if you put an object in there and you're like the food's next to it, they're like, cool, got it. Yeah, I will always come to that object because that's where my food is. Um but like for copper, he started out in Soft Coral Garden. We knew he was gonna move into the larger side of Trap Reef. And so we did a couple different trainings. He had his target, and then he was also doing audio cues. So we actually had a metal pole that we hit three times, three times in a row. Dinner bell. Yeah. And so that's his audio cue to be like, all right, I gotta go to my station. There's my target, I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

And that was in preparation for moving him to exhibit where he wouldn't be able to necessarily see based on the right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

So if he's sleeping at the bottom of Trap Reef, which is 20 something feet down, you can't see your target necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

So you can hear that bell.

SPEAKER_03 59:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

I love the story of just a little dog face puffer who's just too shy to eat. And, you know, that means someone was watching the feed, noticed this animal wasn't getting enough food, and then developed an entire strategy to make sure this individual animal, and I'm sure a pretty large exhibit, is able to eat. Like that's such a sweet story that someone was like, I care about this animal getting enough food that we're now going to teach it to Target train and eat at this place. So all the other aggressive fish can like go eat somewhere else. This little shy guy over here, he's getting his own special dinner, he's getting his own little setup. And I think that's it really goes to show sort of how much care and love goes into all of the animal care that we do here.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

Who is designing the enrichment devices? Is it something we custom order? Are they available for everybody? And can the public suggest ideas? Or is it Alex sewing something in the office?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Um it's Amanda sewing things in the office. She's another memologist here. Excellent sewer. She's sewing something for us right now. So sometimes, sometimes we do um make our own enrichment. It's all of the above. Sometimes we order it. There are uh companies that specialize in creating enrichment for animals that are living in zoo and aquarium settings. Um and sometimes I I I think we've done public suggestions before too.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

Yeah, we've done like uh wish lists that people can choose from and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

And if you're in the sea lion tunnel interacting with Chase or any of our pinnipeds, you are participating in enrichment and you really should be recording that. So please find Alex and leave. Please find me and let me know who we played with.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

You're just gonna bring a little laptop to the tunnel and make every guessing. Yeah. Um just for a day. If um during the holiday season, we will periodically do our holiday gifts. And so if you do see anything about that, that typically means like, hey, if you are interested in purchasing a toy for animals to utilize in some way, shape, or form, um, you are able to do that through a wish list and it gets delivered here, and it is Christmas for us because we get to play with all the animals, introduce new toys, and it is a really, really good time. And we really appreciate everyone who ever donates to the aquarium in any form, including toys for our animals. We had a guest who was very specifically interested in enrichment for sharks and rays. So, aside from training, which we talked about, are there any enrichment devices that they engage with or environmental cues that they really enjoy changing?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

Yeah, so um there's there's kind of a few different things that we'll do. So they are definitely something animals that are target trained. Uh, we also do what's called stretcher training for our sharks in some of our rays as well, which is where they are trained to go into a stretcher uh so that they're more comfortable with it when we have to do exams. So they each get yearly physicals, so we have to make sure that they are as comfortable as possible during those times. So we kind of will have either fake stretchers or we'll use their actual stretcher as a target that they swim through or they have to lay on top of so they're used to that material. Um and we'll also use their actual physical target to kind of lure them in to start with that. But it's always a positive reinforcement thing where you'll get tons of food and then they're like, oh, okay, this isn't so bad. Um we'll also, specifically in like Shark Lagoon, we'll move up those coral reefs that are in there. Those are all artificial coral reefs that we can move around all over the place. Um so we have large rays in there, we have our carpet sharks, which are our zebra sharks. Uh so it kind of changes where they lay in the exhibit. Um we I don't think we've started this yet, but uh, I know other facilities have done it where it's it looks like a huge wiffle ball, but it's sturdier than that. And you can fill that with fish and different things that they'll they will actually push it around and force the fish to come out. Uh we'll also try some like hard-shelled items. It's really funny. Uh hard shelled items, which for the rays or zebra sharks, so they have those crushing plates to mix up their enrichment. And like I said before, we we've done jello with our sharks when we've done some of this more intense training and we don't want to just fatten them up with tons and tons of fish. Um so there's a lot of different things and mixing up their food, even though they definitely have their favorites, definitely don't usually want to go for that food. Um, like when we had big guy, our sand tiger, he would refuse pretty much everything except mullet. And the mullet had to be, it couldn't be a fillet, it had to be like the whole mullet. Of course not. And it had to be presented it to him in a very special way. If it wasn't right, or he didn't like it, or he like got too close to the grabbers at that time, or one of the black tips scared him away, he'd be like, nah, I'm done for the day. I'll come back later.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Sensitive big guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

He was such a sweet little gentleman.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Special shark for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Cool. Well, that is basically all the questions we had from social media. Um, but I guess my own personal question for both of you is sort of what do you foresee or hope to see the future of our enrichment program being? And you can answer that however you feel like.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

I think enrichment is such a broad we've we started talking about how enrichment is such a broad topic and how I lay awake at night thinking about it, and I still will. You hope to sleep one day. I hope to one day get a good night's rest of knowing what enrichment is. Um but I just I I think watching our team develop new and different ways to stimulate our animals is so exciting, and I hope that more and more that becomes ingrained in what we do every day. It already is. But um, I think sometimes people look at it look at enrichment and think it's something extra, like, oh, this is just some a little treat for them or something like that. When in reality, that's not how we practice enrichment here. We really do provide it as a part of their daily well-being or welfare. And I hope that um we just keep doing that and it keeps getting more complex, and we keep getting Parker off his butt in the evening into the water.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:40

Yeah, I I kind of would just second all that. I just want this program to grow more and more and see what new things we can come up with. And I know other zoos and aquariums are always trying new things and just collaborating with them to come up with creative ways of getting these animals up and moving and thinking and doing different stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

That's awesome. Well thank you guys so much for coming on and chatting with us all about enrichment today. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

I was enriching well, we're the same. Um I think the podcast has been staff enrichment for mostly myself and Madeline. I do think that like bringing a staff person in to just talk about an aspect of their job hopefully is enrichment in a positive way and not the stress way, but you never know. But we do appreciate your time and it was a great conversation. We learned a lot today.