Brie Montoya Loves The Business

Welcome back! This week Salem sat down with her good pal Brie Montoya! They discuss being a pro wrestling referee, traveling for work, their favorite post show meals, musical theater, being a comedy burlesque performer and more!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

But it used to be I would go and get chicken fried steak from Sherries.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Sherries.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Listen. I am in pure I just opened my this goes to show you the state that I'm in. I was trying to start a timer and I opened my calculator.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

That's I do that all the time with the clock when I go to like set an alarm. It's like calculator. That also starts with a C.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

It starts with a C and it there's numbers in it. It must be real. Right. But yeah. I don't have like a cute I I think I've also said this every episode. I don't have like a cute little intro. We're just going now.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

We're going now? We're live, yeah. We're live. We're live, pal. We can talk now. We can talk.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Yeah, this has been a very silent. I haven't seen you in a what since I think the matinee that I went to. The last one.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

At least a couple months ago.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

And then you came in and we were just like, don't say anything. Wait, wait till the show starts.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Right. Yeah. Yeah. The awkward thing of being like, I want to comment on like your tattoos and your hair, and you look cute today, but I think I'll just save it until I'm on camera. Yeah. So I can have a I can have a permanent recording. Thank you. Me complimenting my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Thank you. Yeah, I got I added to had you had you did I have this one when I you had started, but I think up here is all new. So yes, two days ago I went, and it's gonna be kind of hard to see on camera, but it's fine. Just look on my Instagram. Uh yeah, I went and did another session. I think this was the worst tattoo I've gotten so far, pain-wise.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I mean it it's sneaking towards your armpit, which is notoriously a very painful place to get a tattoo.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah, and it's a lot of black, and I had to this was the first time I've ever had to lay on my tummy.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

With like my arm dangling. Yeah. So it was just, I think all of my body wasn't having a great time.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

But it's it was another uh another example of like two hours in going, why the fuck? Why do I do this shit?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

But now I'm like, well, now I know why it looks cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I know. I have that thing, so like my leg's pretty tattooed.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

And I keep talking about how I want to get like my knee done because I have this big piece on my thigh, and then like my full lower leg is done, and I'm just like, I just need to connect it. People are like, why would you do that? I'm like, it'll hurt for a while, but then I have it till I'm dead. Hopefully, I mean, if everything goes well, like I have it until I'm dead. Otherwise, you know, something terrible has happened.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah. Hopefully it doesn't disappear or till you're dead is very fast.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, I don't know. I've been watching the pit a lot and somebody lost their leg this season, so I'm like, that would be a I would be sad for many reasons.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

I would think I genuinely people are not gonna believe me. I think I'd be more sad about losing a tattoo that I spent time on my leg than my leg at first.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

I mean, you I think you would that would be the immediate thought, and then quite quickly you would be like, oh dear, it's the mode of my life has changed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Later on, I'd think about all of the long-term repercussions, but at first I'd be like, that was a a twelve hundred dollar piece.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Shoot.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I can't I only get big pieces apparently, also for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, I mean, you might as well go all in, which which I say with like the dumbest like little tattoos in the world.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

I think I'm doing kind of uh like because I my plan is basically huge pieces, and then once I have no more room for big stuff, I just get little filler cute ideas. Cause I have ones like that too. Right. Like little tiny ones I want to get, but I think currently it's like I'm in a place where I can afford to pay for a five-hour session every couple of weeks, so it's like might as well just do it now. Right. Because I I don't think I could physically go in for like an hour and get like a a little piece that cost me like 200 bucks. I'd be like, well, let's get like four of them then.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Just throw a couple more on there. Yeah, I'll have that's how I ended up getting um no, not I went in for this little ice cream tattoo. People ask me about it all the time. Like, yeah, what is it? Your brother actually the other day, he's like, Well, what is there like a reason you have this many ice cream scoops? And I was like, Yeah, every time I've killed a person, get a new ice cream exactly. But um, I went in for this one, and the he was like, you know, I'm kind of slow today. Do you want another one? I won't charge you extra. And I was like, sure, and that's how I ended up with the cheese graterator.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

With the cheese grater. Yeah, they're both cute. I first of all, I might if I ever make a slasher one day, I might steal that what that ice cream tattoo. Yeah, the killer gets a new scoop every time. That's such a fun idea.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, it's kind of like a pla like like a like a killer clowns from outer space kind of like thing where instead of like the popcorn bags, it's just like an ice cream shader.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

What are you are you tattooed out on the arms or do you want more pieces on your arms?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Um, I mean, I am just uh not in a place where I can get a lot of tattoos. If I was, I'd be like fully head to toe. Yeah, but um it's it's few and far between right now, so I would like focused on filling up my leg and then after that move on to other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

But yeah, I didn't start getting tattooed until I was 30 one. How old are you right now? I'm turning 35 this year. No way. Did you look so good? Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Not that 35-year-olds don't look good, but yeah, um, I'm 34 right now. I turned 35 in July. But I attribute that a lot to my mom. So my mom's Filipino, and she has looked young forever. Yeah, and it's yeah, it's good genes. It's the genes, yeah. It's good jeans. Someday I will be like a tiny old crone, but that's not gonna happen until I'm like 90.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

It's just gonna like one one day in between birthdays. Yeah, I'm just gonna like cough and it's gonna be over. Just like this decrepit little old lady.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah. But no, I it is funny. People people are surprised often when they find out how old I am, mostly because I I do such um I have such juvenile hobbies.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, but um it's hard to tell anyone, I think, that you're into wrestling when you're not like 20 years old.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, I feel like most people around are uh like either children or like old heads. Like they're it it's very it's very uh hard to find the middle ground.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah. It's either like John Cena as their favorite or like fucking Bruno San Martino, and it's like well, alright.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

My ex's uh dad, when when he found out that I was into wrestling, he was like, Well, do you know about Bruno San Martino? And I was like, I've heard of him.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Hey, I've heard the name, pal.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

But it was just so funny the way he said it because like then every time he would bring up wrestling, he'd be like, Oh, I used to love Bruno San Martino. It was so charming. But yeah, I loved that it was like his way of like engaging.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah, I love I love the name being in a different color text every time.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, it was like it was basically like a flashing, it was like he had seen it on a marquee, and so in his head that's how he had to like say it.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Bruno San Martino.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

The just I mean, the man deserves the respect, so I guess it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

If somebody's gonna say his name like that, yeah, it's understandable.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Was the plan ever to wrestle or was it always to ref?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

No, uh, I never really wanted to wrestle. I'll do like the the the brief kind of like Bruce a ref referee, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

One of the referees for my family's company, and now refing fuck all over the place, dude. I do ref you're doing so much.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

I do a lot of things, it's awesome. I've been really, yeah, really happy for the opportunity. Um, but yeah, when I started, I I like got into wrestling really late. I didn't start watching it till 2018. And I like started watching it, and that was kind of like beginning of AEW, you know, at the end of 2018, like NXT Black and Gold, and it was so fun, and I had friends who were really into it.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

It was a very good like era for just like televised wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So good. And I was like, I know I'm not athletic. Like I'm I'm a performer, but I'm not an athlete.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Um, but how do I get involved with this? Because I it's impossible for me to have an interest and not like dive headfirst. Dive headfirst into it and make it my entire life, which I know you can't relate to at all.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, I was gonna say I wouldn't know what that's like at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

But yeah, like I I got super into it, and by happenstance, I had a friend um who was a wrestler for a company that no longer exists, so you know, 321 battle, um, up in Seattle. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

I forgot you're from up there.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah, because this was when I was living in Portland, but I had a friend, so he was a wrestler at 321 battle, and I had seen the f the first like AEW pay-per-view, and I saw Aubrey refereeing, and uh, that was the first female ref I'd seen in watching wrestling, and I was like, oh, well, maybe that's something I can do. That looks like kind of an interesting thing. And I asked him about it, and he's like, Yeah, actually, she's our she's one of the trainers for our referees. If you ever want to come up, like you can just come up to training. I was like, okay. And so yeah, I started driving from Portland to Seattle and just only trained as a referee. Yeah. Um, because Chris Samuels, who was her ref trainer, and then all Oliver's uh was was the the one who taught us, and they had like a good program, which you don't see in like very many wrestling schools at all. But they really cared about like training good referees.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So I felt like, oh, this is like something important and that I should do I feel like a lot of the a lot of uh which you know sometimes you just have to work with what you have, but like a a lot of the it's sort of like oh you're a ref until you're a wrestler. So like it's it is very important that there are places out there teaching just like you want to be just a ref, and we're gonna teach you the best way to do it because like it's such a fucking important position.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Exactly. And like you want people who are good at it, like you you want it to be you want it to add to the moments that matter instead of like noticing when there are fuck ups.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

But yeah, so I was like super grateful for that. I did like basic wrestling training, and I was like, it sucks. It sucks so bad that night it the first time the first night of wrestling training, like I went up there not knowing what to expect, and then like the first thing it was like, okay, a hundred squats, and I was like, What? This is crazy, and then like fireman carries, and then we were doing like bumps and rolls and stuff, and um, you know, then the next day I had to take the bus from Seattle back to Portland at like 7 a.m. And then I got on the bus and I like when it's got off in Portland, I literally like fell out of the because my legs just like locked up and I was like, oh, I'm going down.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

That's fair. If you've never done a hundred squats before and then all of a sudden you're doing that and then getting dumped on your back.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

I the other I'm I've been I haven't wrestled since September.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Wow. Yeah, it's been a minute. That doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Um, it's it's very strange. Yeah. But uh I'm still on my sabbatical right now. And but a couple weeks ago, I was like, I needed to go talk to my dad about something. I was like, oh, let me swing by the school. And I was standing there with Bishop and I was like, oh, come lock up. And we just did a couple rolls, and then uh I was like, well, let me take a bump. And I took one snap bump and I was just laying there and I was like, hey, why the fuck is this ever what we started doing? Why does this suck so bad? Who decided this was a good fucking idea? I took one bump and I was like, How have I done this for 10 years?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, and and that ring is hard.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah, or that ring is really hard.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

That ring is really hard. I yeah, so there's multiple factors there, but yeah, you just you're like when when I try and explain it to people who have either never taken a bump or like I I don't know, are just watching or do I'm like you have no idea how much this sucks. Like no and they're doing this constantly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

And night after night, yeah, and then they wonder why, like, you know, I my body's broken. Yeah, it's like they wonder why none of us I have a fucking sciatic nerve from doing a pop-up sit-out power bomb for 10 years. Yeah, I can't I definitely gotta axe that when I come back. That's not that's leaving the arsenal for sure. Anything sit-out related.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

You just gotta do the mill masqueress. Yes, or the flaco.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Exactly. Oh, I love I love you know me, I love stealing from my family. So I started once he did it to me at at uh LX one time, I was like, Yeah, I'm doing that for sure. Yeah. But uh yeah, no, I it it really is like I tell everyone a good referee can like really, really like you feel the difference. And you know, because I anytime you're on a show, I request you because I know that I'm not gonna have to give you a fucking million light years of information. Right. You get what you need from me, I get what I need from you. And if there's things that change in there, one of the few things I tell everyone that this shows me that you're like a ref that I want to work with every time is if we're in the ring and some I need to give information and I can give it to you to give to them. Yeah, that's fucking brilliant. And I've never had a moment where I've gone like do this or tell them this or say this, and you've gone like deer in the headlights. You're just like, okay. Because it's like I'm gonna start John Cena yelling spots out in the middle of the fucking ring.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, it's like you can do that when you're at SummerSlam. It's a little tougher when you're at a brewery and there's like 75 people though.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yeah, we're at the Elks Lodge. Yeah, like it's it's not so it yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah. No, it it does make a difference, and like I I really like being in that position where you know people trust me. It's like, of course, I make mistakes, things happen. It should happen. It's live theater, like we're all gonna do something eventually, but like I understand what my role is and like what I'm supposed to do, and I just I really wish that there were more people uh who were dedicated to doing that and not just seeing it as like a stepping stone to the next thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

It's not a fill-in for a student until they're ready.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Exactly. And it can be, yeah, it's like it's totally fine, and it's a great way for students to understand like how a wrestling match works, yeah. Um, because you have to know everything about the way that it's structured and how it's gonna play out and how you react to it when you're a referee. So it's it's it is good learning, but it can't be if that can't be the only people that you have refereeing you.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

No, not at all. Yeah, especially like on a you know, it's one thing like if we do the matinees, that's a great spot for students to learn. You know, we h we get have more students, obviously you're there or like other local refs, but like that's a good place to have a student. Hey, we want to start working you in, you can learn the importance. But like if you're working a big major show and your entire referee course just made up of students who want to be wrestlers one day, it's there's no like lead, there's no one in charge, you know. Like that's another thing that like I know we could tell you, hey, uh handle the ref shit, and you'll you have them fucking laid out to a T what at what who everyone has, what everyone's doing, making sure they know what to be. Yeah, and it's like those positions, not just wrestlers and refs, but uh everywhere in a wrestling company is important. The commentary team, the people engineing and running backstage, like everyone having their piece and knowing what's important. It that shit like it just makes the show run so fucking smooth.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, I tell people this all the time. Like, not we all know this if we're in wrestling, like not everyone needs to be a wrestler to be involved in wrestling. And it as a matter of fact, it is better if they're not. Like of course, people want you know, follow your dream, do if you're if you have like a a good idea of what you're doing, you're training well, you're listening, whatever, be a wrestler. But like the the industry doesn't work without everybody else, like without a referee, without the photographers, without the videographers, without commentary, with you know, without ring announcers, like and if you are one of those you know secondary positions, you're going to work all the time.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

I tell everyone, have as many tools in the toolbox as you can. Because I mean, look at the amount of people in WWE or AEW that like their first goal was to be a wrestler and now they're doing commentary for 20 years. You know, like Corey Graves is a great one. People love him. He was trying to be a wrestler, yeah, and then just he was too injury prone. Now he's like one of those guys, he's probably gonna be like a Hall of Fame announcer one day. Yeah, because he could talk on the mic, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah, it'll extend your career or uh you know, it's not I'm not over here to give like sage advice or anything, but I it it's just what I see. It's like make yourself useful and also like companies, make it known that you value the non-wrestling positions in your company because uh uh it doesn't exist without it. Yeah, sound people, like lighting folks, like all those, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

And when you when you try those other positions, you really start to get an appreciation for them because I'm someone I've been told I'm very gifted on the microphone, but I've done commentary a handful of times. Right holy shit, yeah, it's so hard to remain entertaining, but also focused on what's going on, and like if you don't have anything engaging to say about the match, it is your job to figure out something to say. Right. And it's so fucking difficult. And I just remember like being like an hour into a show and being like, How the hell are we still talking about wrestling? How could we possibly keep talking about the moves they're doing?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah, I I had an experience like that recently where somebody had to referee and I I was like, hey, how did that go? And they were like, I feel like I know everything about wrestling, and I felt like I didn't know anything when I was in there, like I was in the way, I didn't know, like just an appreciation. I'm like, yeah, it's just a different skill. It's not saying you couldn't do it, but it's like it's a completely different skill. I couldn't wrestle and would never try. Um but yeah, it it it is definitely a different appreciation. And yeah, with commentary, you look at like, you know, uh WrestleMania Week just happened, which was a lot of fun. You look at folks like like Jordan uh Castle or you know Veda, yeah, who you know, in one day, like three or four shows. Can you imagine doing commentary or ring announcing for that many shows in a day?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

You have to talk about wrestling so much, so much, sometimes for the same people, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

In a different scenario, it's in it's incredible. Like that's always been something I'm like, if I ever did anything else in wrestling, like what would I do? And and commentary is like the only thing that I could think. Yeah, because like I love wrestling and I love talking about it. So I'm like, maybe I would be able to do it. And I'm like, bitch, you would have to practice, but it is a crazy like chatting with your friends about stuff is very different than selling the audience on the story and yeah, what's happening, and also yeah, and knowing when to talk and when not to talk.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Because I've also been on shows where I watch the match footage back, and there's so many times where I wish the commentators weren't talking, right? Because they don't understand or let things breathe. There's certain moments where it's like, yeah, I'm cutting a promo. You shouldn't have anything to say right now. Right. Like, wait till it's done, sell that bit. Or I've had matches where the commentators are just talking about some entirely unrelated shit. And it's like, hey man, we have a story here. I know you know that because you came up to me before the show and said any notes for me, and I said, Here's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, that can really make or break like watching a matchback because especially if it's live commentary, that's one thing. If it's recorded, you know, you're just like, ooh, what am I gonna what am I gonna get when I get to watch this matchback? And you're like, I got some bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

I know they were talking about their fucking weekend last week. Yeah, and you're over here like Yeah, I'm like dumping myself on my head.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

And they're talking about the men's match that's next.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yeah, and they're like, you know what match I'm super excited for? And it's like, I wish mine. I wish mine.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

That would be great. Yeah, but much like a referee like a bad referee, you really notice like a bad commentator. But yeah, that's just why it's like those super underappreciated. Um, and I I definitely encourage people to like just be just recognize your strengths and your limits. And if you're good at refereeing, please like do that. We need more good referees and less bad wrestlers.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

No, absolutely. I was uh I wanted to ask you, was this this was not your first mania week?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

You've done No, I went last year.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Okay, but this one you were pretty fucking busy this time.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah, I was I was really busy last year, but I was there longer. Last year I went for five days, um, which is a long time to be in Las Vegas. Um, but this time I was only there for three days. Um I actually I didn't think initially that I was going to go because you know, real life check, I had my grad school portfolio due the Monday after Mania Week.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

So I was like, you can't go, you can't go. And then like two weeks before, I was like, I can do this.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

We'll just do it, fuck it.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

We'll just do it. Why not? Um and I I I had gotten the confirmation from Adam, who's the the head referee over at uh GC. That they they wanted to have me back on brunch, and I was like, well, hell yeah. Yeah. Of course. Effie's big gay brunch if you know I've information for the the the folks at home. Yeah. Um but yeah, so that initially I was like, okay, well, I'll figure it out. Um and I went Friday and reached out to the folks at PrideStyle, and they had me on both of their shows. And then World's Greatest Wrestling, so Bovey. Um so two local Vegas promotions. So I did those and um Big Gay Brunch. And yeah, it was busy. I I fit a lot into a little bit a little bit of time.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah, I did not so I didn't go last year. I was going through some mental health stuff. The only I've actually ever done I've only ever gone to a Mania Week show once, and it was I did Big Gay Brunch in LA. I was like on that show. But even that, I did Big Gay Brunch and then I left. Like I didn't have I was just I'm bad at reaching out for bookings.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

But I like I I know it's exhausting and like the general air when you're there is like you you're checking in with people, they're like, How you doing? And everyone's like, I'm so tired, you know, and and that it's great because we all understand each other. It's kinda so, but I I I I love it, and you know, I'm only two years into doing Mania Week, so perhaps check in and like another several and I'll be tired of it. But there I think it's so exciting to be like going around and having your bag and like doing these shows and meeting all these new people and working matches you never thought you'd get to work.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, it's the it's definitely the best place for and it's like it's I liken it to um when I was in middle school, right? There was in my little West Town, I lived in West Sacramento, California, and there was six middle schools, and every year, once a year, we would have the Club West Dance where all six gr schools, each sixth through eighth grade, were invited. Right. And to me, that's what like Mania Week is for wrestling. It's like all the people from all of the places are in one place over the weekend, and it's like one of the rare times you'll ever see all of your friends that you've met on all these little shows here and there. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

So I I've described I described it to my non-wrestling friends as as wrestling summer camp.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah, that was probably a far simpler way to put it than I did.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

But uh but the same idea, right? Where you're just like, oh man, I worked with this person a year ago in Seattle, and now I get to see them here.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Or yeah, you just have cool experiences that you wouldn't get when you're doing your normal browns locally.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

It's such a fun, like because obviously I'm like watching all of it happen through social media. And it's such an interesting, like, no one can say wrestlers don't ride for this shit. Because I'll watch like a friend of mine wrestle for Marvelous in front of, you know, a thousand people, and then the next night they're at in like some like the basement of like a Walmart, yeah. And they're wrestling in front of like 12 people. Yeah. And they're doing all the same shit. Yeah. And I'm like, man, we really f everyone in this business really fucking rides for this shit, uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah, I mean, I I I I feel that when, you know, I'm like, I was like walking up, you know, the strip with like my bag at like eight in the morning to make 9 a.m. like call time and like stopping and getting like a protein bar at the ABC and just being like so haggard because I think but Friday I was awake for 24 hours and then had an early call time and I'm like, get to go do wrestling in the morning, and it fucking ruled.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

It was amazing, it was like the best day, so yeah, we're all like yeah, yeah, and for wrestling brained, yeah, and for like obviously it's like you know, it's a little different for re refs and wrestlers because like refs are often on the show multiple times, yeah. We have to be there for the whole thing, yeah, and it's still like because I think the trade-off is like, you know, I'll I'll drive 10 plus hours, spend all day at this venue, get ready, do all these things, and then wrestle for 10 minutes. Sure. Yeah, and then get in my car, drive back home, and go to work the next day. And it's like there's nothing else. But that's the problem. It's like there's nothing else I'd do that for.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Well, maybe. I'm starting comedy.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Okay, but it that's a similar thing, it's like a very similar thing, and yeah, like there's that weird trade-off that in my head, because it's like wrestlers physically have it so much harder, obviously, than referees do. Like the the the just absolute wear in your body that it goes through. And then the only thing that we have is like I gotta be there the whole show.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yeah, but I mean it's like you can leave it's fucking tiring being a ref too, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, but I'm not gonna be able to. You're not getting dumped on your neck or yeah, if everything goes well.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Yeah, you're not doing a dive out and no one's catching you.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

No, yeah, exactly. So it's like, yeah, higher, higher risk, higher reward.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah. Um well then the higher levels you get, like, you know, not to go too much fucking behind the curtain, but like seeing the major televised companies, the referees aren't just refs, they run everything. Like they're in charge of so many, like up in there, the refs aren't just refs, they're the talent relations scouts, the they're in charge of setup and teardown. So like they're showing up at venues at 5 a.m. and they're leaving them by 2 a.m. Like it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah, it is so yeah, it's just very different, but like everybody who's involved is involved a hundred percent. Like and and not saying it's like not a hobbyist thing, because like yeah, some people do this as a hobby and that's fine. And like I do, I have a full-time job. I'm recently done with grad school and all those things, but like you know, you you put a lot into it, yeah, and it's it it it no matter what position you are in in it, yeah. And uh yeah, it's kind of hard to be like like a like a toe dip, yeah, as like a referee because you're just people need to trust you that you're like reliable, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Or but it's so fucking important. It's the same way, like so on my sabbatical, one of the things that was very important to me was I went to my partner and was like, hey, I feel both bad for us and for myself that like since since we have been in a relationship, you know, we would go to things, but a lot of my weekends were eaten up by wrestling, right? So my real big focus was like, I want to just go out and do shit. Yeah, and I really love musical theater, and we've been seeing a lot of shows, and it's kind of like the same way I feel about indie wrestling, where like it's awesome to go, like we went and saw the the Broadway touring cast for Beetlejuice, and it was fucking incredible. Oh my god, that show kicks ass. And it was so fun, but then also I got the experience of like going to a more local production close to home and seeing Into the Woods for the first time, and they fucking killed it, and it was so fun, and like that was infinitely more accessible than not that you know Broadway in San Jose costs a million dollars, but it was it's not cheap. No, it was more expensive than than the Woodland Opera House production of Into the Woods.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

I love Into the Woods. I I was to the surprise of no one, I did musical theater when I was in high school. And one of my I think it was my last yeah, the last show I did, maybe. Last musical I did was Into the Woods. Who'd you play? I was the witch. Yeah, yeah. I could see you bottoming. Uh yeah, I was a real Bernadette Peters type.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

You said that like the Bruno San Martino.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

They they deserve the same reference. Um yeah, but no, I I I I forget that too because like my my life lately has been so it's been wrestling, wrestling, wrestling, school, school, school, yeah, work. It's like all these things, and then it'll be months and I'm like, I don't think I've like gone to the beach.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Or like I don't think I've like gone on a hike or something, you know what I mean? And so I try and like fit those in around wrestling shows. I'm like, oh, I like recently it was like, oh, I have a show in Banisha. Like, I'll go two hours early and I'll do a hike.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah. And then I'll You're out of your mind. I know, I know. You're out of your fucking mind.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I'm not taking bumps. I gotta I gotta wear my body out somehow.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

If my friend texted me and was like, Do you want to come to the the venue two hours early so we can go on a hike? I'd be like, that's crazy. That's why they do it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Yeah. Yeah. Or or like, you know, if I have a show in Alameda or something, I'm trying to get there as early as I can. You know, if it's if I don't have work before, so I can just go like sit by the water for a while. Yeah. And like incorporate that into my time being there so I'm not like rushing to the venue and I feel like relaxed before. So like if I'm not coming straight from work, I I try and schedule those in because I started realizing that like I wasn't doing that at all. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I miss doing that. You'd get like memories on your phone, like being like, hey, remember when you used to like go on vacations?

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yeah. Remember when you had fun and did stuff?

SPEAKER_01 31:59

I still have fun, but uh my fun is is uh very structured. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

I I will say because yeah, that is a very like when you're actively pursuing wrestling like that, it is a very important thing to fit those in. I think one of the moments we became a lot closer was when we went up to Oregon as a car ride, and just obviously spending that much time in the car together, but then you taking us to sorry to keep doxing all the fucking places we've been. No, but you taking us to the cameo cafe.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Oh my god. Shout out Cameo Cafe, the best breakfast in Portland, Oregon. I lived in Portland for 11 years, and this place it it's like it it's like unreal.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

It's so cozy how great it is. Yeah, the the lady working like gave us all hugs. I love her. I want her to be my grandmother. She's the I love her so much. I knew this shit was gonna be delicious when we walked in, and none of the tables and chairs were the same. No, and one of the ovens they were cooking on was like a regular home oven. Yeah, and I was like, this is gonna be the most delicious food I've ever fucking had in my life.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

And like you also know because there's like framed photos of beauty queens, like local beauty pageant winners, a lot of like business cards, yeah, and they're they make their own like hot sauce. But yeah, if like it is literally I miss it so much. It I miss I miss many things about Portland. I live there for a long time, obviously, but yeah, that's like one of them.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

It is it's what like one of those, like since I've gone. I think since that trip, I've taken like two other people on different road trips to be like, my friend Bree showed me this place, it's fucking sick. Do you want to go?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

It's so good. And it's like, yeah, please don't don't be afraid of doxing the places we went because I want them to stay open forever.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Please go to the cameo cafe in Portland, Oregon.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. I mean, how many places can you get like bulgogi beef and like a pancake the size of your face?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Oh my god, it's so fucking good, dude. How many places can you get chicken fried steak and regret it later? Oh my god, it's when you're at the venue.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

That was so stupid.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

It's a bad fucking idea.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

It's a bad idea. Well, I'm gonna go wrestle on a on a brick in my stomach covered in gravy.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

I've learned my lesson, right? Now we're having a protein bar and we're eating Thai food later.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I've learned I've learned the tricks. I've gotten to the point. Um I've been fucking around a little bit because I've just been so busy. Right. But I was counting, I was doing I'm doing counting calories and I'm getting back in fitness. And I started, I was 285. Or I think I was 287. No, how much was I? I was around there. I was like 280, 290. Right. And I got all the way down to 220. That was my lowest. Um, I'm a little back up right now just because I said I've been I'm the busiest I've ever fucking been in my life. I'm gonna throw up. But I get it. Uh that has really fixed like my like I I eat fast food now and I like keel over.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

I can't do it now.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

It's bad.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

It sucks.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Yeah, I uh over the last year have, you know, like tried to keep up. I I don't count calories or anything like that, but like keep up with like going to the gym and what I eat and all this stuff because like you know, you start getting pictures back from wrestling and you're in there with like the hottest people you've ever seen, and you're just like, oh my god, I gotta do something about them. And it's uh it's like it's more of a vanity thing, but it's also a health thing. But like it does happen where you're like, I used to be able to eat a whole like bag of flamin' hot Cheetos, and now I can eat like ten of them, and I'm like, I'm good. Yeah, your body actually you're like your body responds to that and it's like I would like I would like real food, please, and you're like, what? We've never done that.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

We don't do that. I remember the first time I had I hadn't eaten McDonald's in like probably like six or I'll say six or eight months. Yeah. To skip one of those numbers. Bishop, I have a I have a younger brother, and Bishop's ruined my fucking you know, you know how he is.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

He's an angel.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Sure. An angel from the fucking downstairs one. He's a nightmare and I hate him. Um, but I hadn't had it in so long, and after a show, I was just like, I was like, oh, I can count the calories on it, I'll just get a couple McDoubles or whatever. I ate like two McDoubles. And meanwhile, when I was in high school, I would house like five McDoubles and two McChickens.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Yeah, you were also a teenager.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I was a teenager on a football team. Yeah. So it was a little different.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

But I had it, I remember I'm not getting physically falling to the ground. Like in my hotel room, be like, what the fuck is happening? I thought they would like it was full of like the T virus. It was tough. It was not good.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

No, it's it's like poison.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yeah. I got the other T virus though. They gave me that one.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Yeah. I what's your favorite? Like, I know you haven't wrestled since September, but like post-show meal, what are you going for?

SPEAKER_02 37:11

I am I'm a big well rest in peace. But it used to be I would go and get chicken fried steak from Sherry's. That was incredible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

I mean, I told you I lived in Oregon for very long time.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Rest in peace. That was that was devastating for the wrestling community.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Oh, yeah. I don't know how DOA kept uh can is continuing to run.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

We don't go out anymore. Oh, dude, since then, any time I've gone to DOA, it's just like, well, I'll fucking see you guys tomorrow. I guess. What are we gonna go to? Denny's no shot. No way.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Well, and there used to be way more late night food in Portland, and it just it all died during the pandemic. It was very sad.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

It is very sad. And Cherry's was the that was our one spot to go. Like poor poor and the poor workers, like at 12 30 in the morning, all of the sudden going from like some older couple and like a young couple on a date or something.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

20 insane wrestlers who are all malnourished and dehydrated, tired, loopy, have been up since five to do ring crew, wrestled, did tear down, and are now here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Sweaty, disgusting, and just yelling at the Sherries.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, it uh when I went uh on and on that same trip up to Oregon and we went to Sherries afterwards, um, it reminded me a lot of like being in high school and being like a punk kid and going to shows and then coming back to Auburn, California, where I'm from, and going to Denny's, which was the only place that was open, you know, 24 hours.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

And so just like yeah, like 15 punk kids going into the Denny's, or either 15 theater kids going to the Denny's.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

I have to imagine somehow that's the worst amalgamation of those scenarios, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Oh, uh how how many how many times do you think a group of kids have done Lavi Bohem in a day?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Just broke out in in one day more around the table.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

You know what? It the but the percent chance that it would happen with a group of wrestlers is higher than you think.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

I well uh this is something that we we all know being involved in the business is this the biggest secret is that everyone is a dork.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Wrestlers are the least cool people I've ever met in my life.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

It is when you meet a genuinely cool wrestler, it is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

That's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

You're like, it's the most intimidating thing in the world because I'm like, nobody's supposed to be cool, you're really cool. Yeah, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 39:58

You're supposed to well, and then now it's even more frustrating because now the things I got made fun of for liking as a child are cool. So like I'm watching my brother wear like Death Notes t-shirts, and it's cool, and I'm like, fuck you, dude. Yeah, I just get made fun of for playing Yu-Gi-Oh!

SPEAKER_01 40:13

And he's also posted about how he's unknown, and I'm like, you're a child. You're literally four years old.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yeah, Bishop.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Clip it.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Get out of here, clip that, send it to Bishop. No, it's fucking I hate it. It's pissed me off, dude. I used to get made fun of so much for playing video games, and I used to get made fun of for playing Kingdom Hearts, now it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

I mean, that it that's the the generational cycle. It's like it's it is such a privilege to get old enough to complain about people who are younger than you.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Absolutely, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Like when I I I my day job, I work in a university, and like seeing 19-year-olds come in in clothes that I would wear when I was in middle school as a 35-year-old, I'm just like, you know, I went through this with my mom when she would be like, Why are you wearing things that I wore in the 80s? And I'm just like, you wouldn't understand. You wouldn't get cool, mom. And now I'm like, you guys aren't doing it big enough.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

You need to look worse. You need to look crazier.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

We looked terrible. Nobody, I'm sorry, I was in middle school in 2004. Nobody looked good. We all looked real I know. I'm so old, Salem.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

I thought about that and when I was six.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

But yeah, I was, you know, in middle school then, and like I think about the what we were wearing, and now there's like this weird pastiche of it floating around, and I'm like, more jeans under skirts, throw on another tank top, like you don't look crazy enough. More belts.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Get six belts. Yes, please. Oh, I learned about layering recently. Oh, it's changed my life. It's unfortunately summer, and I've had to stop doing it, but learning about layering as a trans woman. Oh, I've I've learned about layering and belts.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

You saying I you saying I learned about layering just like made I got I did the like Indiana Jones where like my skin melted off my face.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

They told me. Instagram told me.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Instagram told me to wear three tank tops. I didn't wear 20 camis.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

The the the mine has lace. The spaghetti strap maxi dress with a long sleeve undershirt. Oh boy, my life has changed. And then they taught me about tattoo chokers a little too far into my transition.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I know. You're I I see I we did it. I had my my best friend in first grade, Lila De La Sota, I believe was her name. Um, I don't know if she exists anymore.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

I don't know if they got rid of her or what.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

I don't know, she's still a playable character or what, but she gave me it, she gave me a red tattoo choker necklace. So this would have been in 1998.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

I was born.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

And then with that, I put it on and say, that was actually the direct response.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Yeah, so I had I had one of those um that I used to wear all the time, and I think I'm wearing it in my second grade school picture.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

I love it. I love I love doing it. They taught me, like I said, they taught me about accessories and layering, and my life has not changed. I've gotten more compliments on outfits than I ever have in my life.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Well, I will send you just film photos of myself in between the ages of ten and fourteen.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Please absolutely do, because I will put it in the clip for Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Okay. You probably do, just with my hair like this.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

I love that. I wish I had gotten more of like a like a scene or alt kid phase when I was younger.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

I didn't. I I were now. I'm having it now. Yeah, we're doing it. Look at the material. I l I literally have blue hair and pronouns. Yeah. We're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

I I had blue hair. I had pink hair. I did I did all the those things and yeah, it was very fun.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

I would never dye my hair again though.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

That's fair. Yeah. At a certain point I'm gonna have to stop.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Not if you don't want to, but my hair my hair stylist uh actually told me no. Oh. I wanted to, and she was like, I'm not gonna let you do that. Hey Diva. She knew I was going through a rough time, so she was being a real friend. She's like, you can't do that. And I was like, okay. And like a week later, I was like, That was the right call.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

I'm starting to. That's another thing okay, so not to make this about me. Um, on my sabbatical, I am rediscovering myself and a huge thing I've learned. And this is a sensation sweep in the nation that I don't know if anyone knows about. Confidence is banana. This shit has changed my life.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Oh, tell me about it, girl.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

I spent so many years just like meek little, like anytime I asked anyone for anything to to to do the show, to go on a date, to hang out, the fucking person at the cash register, I would I describe it as I would ask them like a poor orphan asking for more porridge. Just like, if you would like to, but oh, it's okay, but uh now it's just like I just do shit and I feel good, I feel the best I've ever felt. And one of the things is I started fucking taking care of myself.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

I'm it helps following diet and gym to the best of my ability. It's like I said, it's a little out of whack because I'm busy right now, but I'm doing those things. I am back on hormones. We did injections, we did it. Thank you, studio audience. Um I get my nails done now. Yeah, I have a nail stylist and I'm trying to find a hairstyle. Huh?

SPEAKER_01 46:01

I said don't look at my nails. Don't look at my nails right now. Don't look at them. I've never had nails in my life.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

I love it. I thought I wouldn't like it because I touch my face a lot.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

But honestly, like after like and like two days in, I was like, I regret this. This sucks. But now I've had them for like a month and I forget that they're there.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

But I'm doing shit. I'm trying to find a hairstylist because I my hair's flat and boring. Um, but like I'm just doing shit, yeah, and it's fun. I started improv.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yeah. Fab.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

I'm good at it. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

That's like I I that's like the least surprising thing in the world because you can like cut a promo.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

It really is. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, when I you you've been training for this. This isn't your first improv class.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

I was like shitting myself to start improv, and then everyone was like, Why are you nervous? You're gonna be fine. And I was like, it's just so and then I did it, and I was like, nah, yeah, I'm kind of made for this.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

You're like, oh, these all these dorks around here never tried to like sell a match in front of 12 people.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

You know, never had to insult your own dad in front of a room of like 20 people.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Never had to call out your dad for having a child.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

That's going on with my granddad. Fuck you, call it clip this synotym too.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

I knew exactly what problem you were thinking about. I was like, I was in the ring for that one.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

And I was like, Yeah, what a day that was.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

That was a great I missed I missed that venue.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

And we had a hardcore match with like four weapons. You had Legos and a jump rope, a jump rope, chairs, chairs, and I think a pinata that we forgot to use. Probably. So wrestling's truly something. Yeah, it truly matters.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

So, like, what can an improv team do to you? Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

I've been obsessed with the concept of zip zap zop for like months because I didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

But I kept hearing the term from like comedians.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Yeah, because that's like a very easy to pick on.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yes. And then I did it and I was like, oh, this sucks. I get why they're all making fun of it. This blows. Playing Zip Zap Zop sucks.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

It's did you ever? I mean, you were a theater kid, you had to do it. It's fucking blows. It's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

No, you feel like an idiot, and then you miss one and you're like, I'm a fucking three words to remember.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Three words, and sometimes the first letter is different. How did I fuck this up? But I will say, it is a very encouraging space.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Anytime we fuck something up, or anytime anybody does anything, we all clap and cheer. Right. It's great. And I think if it wasn't that way, there's no fucking way I would last an improv class.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

No. If they were like making you if they were cutthroat. Yeah, it's like why? But why would you be there? Yeah, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

But I'm having a blast. I love it. I'm trying to start stand-up as well. Um, I have an improv graduation show that you're invited to that I want you to go to. Please. Yeah. Um oh fuck. Okay. Sorry for the the terrible transition, but I have two I have a thing I want to talk to you about before I ask you my final question. Sure. One thing, along kind of the same uh things that me and Lee have been going to a lot is at the Colonial, they have a company called the Nevermore Gorlesque.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Um I love them. I love going to them so much. Do you know Dragula? The show? Yeah, of course. Love Dragula.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Love Dragula.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Love Dragula.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Love Pink.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Um they have they get a lot of the cast to go all the time. And uh we just went and it was Graymatter, Disasterina, Jarvis Hammer, but they also do a fuck ton of burlesque. Cool. You do so much burlesque, and it's really fun. And you used to do that shit.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

I did. I was a burlesque dancer for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Holy shit, dude. I know you did it as long as I did wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

I have I've lived many lives. Yeah, I I did burlesque most of the time that I lived in Portland. Um, I started in like two yeah, like 2009, 2010. Um Madison Moon was my uh mentor, she the you know, classic burlesque dancer from Portland. Um, and I used to work with a live burlesque band called Orchestra LaPau um back in the day. Rose City Shimmy, just shout out all my amazing friends. Um But yeah, it was super fun. There was like a very vibrant scene in in Portland, lot of lot of fun, like classic burlesque, but I was more of a I was more of a comedy burlesque dancer. I was very funny. I'd still, you know, I still think I could be funny if if pressed. Um yeah, I I I I did a bunch of stuff. I went to festivals.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

What does comedy burlesque look like?

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Sure. So I let me see. Okay, so me and my um burlesque sister, Baby Lestrange, incredible drag and and burlesque performer, still active in Portland. Um we used to do an act where uh she was a burlesque performer trying to get ready to leave for a show, and I was her cat that kept fucking up her routine.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

So I would just like tear all her clothes out of her suitcase and I'd rip things off and we'd do little dances together. So it was like, yeah, there's like a comedic setup for it.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Or it basically it was just to me, burlesque in the 2010s or you know, 2020s now, it's absurd. Yeah, it's absurd to look at somebody and watch them get almost naked and be like, this is nice, nice. That's it. So for me, what I took out of that was I am going to flip a lot of these tropes on their heads, so it's funny because there's an it's kind of like wrestling where it's like there's an inherent absurdity to the very act that we're doing. Right. So if I bring the audience in with like comedy, there's a suspension of disbelief. Yeah, that you can kind of like play with something that's a lot more interesting to me than just being like, oh, I'm sexy or like I have a corset on, which some people are very good at that. But I think it's way harder to be very good at that. So I did a lot of like comedy, I would like play on different tropes. Like my favorite act I ever did um was I was like a robber, like very like a very cartoonish, like you know, boba clava over the head and all black with a like bindle. And I would like I would take that off, and then I had a stocking over my head, and then I would do it was all to like classic burlesque music, and I would like peel the stocking off my head like some people would like peel a stocking off their leg. Yeah, so it's so playing with like those classic burlesque tropes in like a silly way, yeah, I I found really engaging and interesting. Um so yeah, that's that's what I would do. Yeah, and like I have a very expressive face which comes out in wrestling all the time because I feel like every other photo that I get, I'm like, uh. Um so like I I was just good at engaging an audience in a way that I didn't have to use words, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

That's I I I can kind of envision that because we had one at the uh burlesque show. And if if if you as a burlesque artist feel like this is giving too much away, I don't know how often you reuse performances in burlesque, but constantly um we there was like a competition and there was multiple people going, they're all doing really good, and then this one girl comes out and uh Pixie Barbell, I think her name was, and uh she's just like head to toe in like a scene outfit, like the this buns with the over the eye, the multiple tank tops and belts, the boot warmers, and she's doing uh uh Hello Kitty by Everlevine. Oh yeah, it's very fun, it's very playful, it's cute, and then she brings this guy on stage and she sets a chair and she's like being flirty, and then she goes off stage and everyone's like, What the fuck is this? And she wheels out another guy who is bound and gagged to a different chair. Right. And then uh she starts doing a song that I don't recognize, and as she's distracted, the other guy, I guess, got a big moment of like improv and like I'll do it, and he starts untying him, and then the moment he's untied, uh um I I want my boyfriends to kiss by Ash Nico kicks in and they start making out. And I you would have thought that they did like a fucking off-the-rope spear ladder spot. I almost jumped out of my seat. Oh yeah, that was so exciting.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

No, that that kind of like subverting the expectation that you have of like, you know, a burlesque act in in its in its basic form. Somebody comes out fully clothed, magic happens, they leave the stage less less clothed.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

And like playing with that basic like formula of like whatever that magic in between is, yeah, is the fun part to me. Like that's what I always really liked doing. Um, because I wanted people to be surprised or I wanted them to laugh, or like, you know, because I I never had like not as a a slight to myself, but I never thought of myself as like a sexy, like I'm like, oh, I'm not like a sexy burlesquer, right? But like I was like, you know what I can do to engage audiences is like be silly, be silly, be fun.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Yeah, yeah. Cause it is like there are again, there was a one of the headliners was a drag artist or drag artist, uh burlesque artist named Frankie Fictitious.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Oh yeah, I know Frankie.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Yeah, yeah. Um, this is like her bag, right? Yeah, and I had I didn't know I'm not huge in the bad burlesque roles, I didn't know her, but like immediately after her set, I was like, Yeah, this is why this is her job.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Yeah, no, Frankie is like one of the best in the world. And I'm yeah. Um, so but like that is a person who like they do the classic, like classic burlesque. She was bumping and grinding, and like she does, you know, different things, but like her formula makes sense for like the classic sort of burlesque setup. She does a lot of fun things, she has like a Chun Li act that's really you know, like um what but whatever. She she is an incredible performer, yeah. But I'm like, I'm not gonna be like that, like that's just not my bag. Yeah, so what else can I do? Um, but yeah, I I used to do a lot of fun stuff. I I was with a troupe in Portland uh for a long time called Sign of the Beast Burlesque, but they still run, they're an all heavy metal burlesque troupe. They run Metal Esque Fest every year in October, usually, but they're awesome, they're still going. Uh I did Black Lodge Burlesque, which was all David Lynch themed burlesque. Um so that was super fun. They still put on shows every once in a while. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Oh my god. I had like a lost highway act, too. I was like the the mystery man character, and I did it to like Blondie's Call Me. Or like yeah, so there were all sorts of fun stuff that we would do in in in burlesque. Um what other shows have I done? I did like a all Batman Batman the Animated. I did a Batman the Animated series act. I was the Joker and I came out of like a big box for like Batman's birthday, and I sang I want to be loved by you as the Joker. You know, so you just like there's a lot of there's a lot of avenues that you can take.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

In in that. It's just like just like with anything, like with wrestling, like what do you want, what do you want the audience to get out of it?

SPEAKER_02 57:34

Yeah, absolutely. And it is like it's another A, it's another like very encouraging environment, I think, being at those shows, because we go we go at like basically every month and they're packed house at the colonial, people are just fucking losing their shit. But it is really so like so many acts I feel like I just don't even process till they're over. Right. Because it's just everything is every single one is so unique to that person.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

And it's like even when it is just like, oh, they're just doing they have clothes, now they don't. They're still like just so unique to who they are. Right. Like the the other two girls in the competition were just they have clothes, now they don't, but one of them's so like goth and horror focused, and she's like pouring blood on her teeth are blacked out, and then the other one, she's like more she's you know, Hispanic girl, she's a lot more like she had like the old timey hair get up and had like the sexy dress with the long cigarette, and like there's still a story within it's so fascinating to watch. It's kind of like wrestling, where it's like I mean, sometimes sometimes fucking wrestling is ten guys punching each other, but yeah, and sometimes burlesque is somebody d going through the motion and then not connecting with an audience.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

That's true. Like that that is I mean, again, this is b burlesque and wrestling are like this, they're very similar, which is why like the transition that I had between one to the other was very easy. Um is that like engagement with the audience is key. Yes, right. So I would see young burlesque dancers go out and be afraid to look at the audience and they'd be looking down at their feet, and they wouldn't they you could see them going through the choreography they were doing moves, but they weren't performing.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

You know, I was like, you could be doing this in their your in your room. And it um yeah, same thing.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Same fucking thing with wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah, where you don't have to do the craziest stunts, you don't have to do the flashiest moves, you don't have to have a a good burlesque act is not is not doesn't live or die on whether you have a million Swarovski crystals on your gown. It's like how good are you at performing?

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Yeah. At the end of the day, all of this is for them.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Yeah, yeah, and you want to make them come back, or you want to make them tip you, or you want to make that happen. Um, so yeah, I I was never like a super I'm not a I'm not a dancer, like I'm I'm a mover, not a dancer, but like people would always like me because I was engaging. Yeah. And yeah, so no, there's a there's a lot of parallels, there's a lot of cool stuff. Um I miss it sometimes, but I'm also like it's a lot of work. Yeah, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of work to put on all those clothes and take them all off and then do all the stay pretty. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Stay pretty and then go back to the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Sometimes you don't have to be pretty, sometimes you can be like really stupid and ugly, and that's really fun. Sometimes you're a cat. Sometimes you're a cat. I do still have the cat costume. It's awesome. Yeah, I have the cat costume.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

I'll show you afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

But uh, yeah. Now it's very cool. I have a little cousin. Um, I guess she's not little anymore, she's in her 20s, but she's my little cousin, uh, it is a local burlesque performer. Um, her name is Mystic Merlot, so local here in Sacramento. Cool. I wonder if I've seen her before. Yeah, I mean, if you've been to like um there's there's actually this great uh party I went to recently called Pillow Princess, which is like yeah, she performed there and um but it's cool to see somebody else in my family do it now. Yeah, because I was like the the pariah for doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

The only one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Now she can take a little of the heat.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

Yeah. Now I just watch people punch each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Okay. I have one final question for you, Brie.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Shoot.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

I've I've I've prompted you on this, but we'll rephrase we'll restate for the audience. I ask all of my guests at the end of every episode what is something that you think is super underrated? It could be anything in your life, could be a way of life, could be a piece of media, or literally whatever. Sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Okay. Yeah, I'd thought about this, and one of the things that we actually talked about was the first thing that I thought about, which is every position in wrestling that's not a wrestler.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Super underrated. Um so that was gonna be my thing, but we talked about it so extensively. Um but now to be completely on brand with my my day-to-day life, uh, something that I think is totally underrated is um using the library.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Okay, and here's why. Everybody thinks that it is just when we talk about that, it's just about like going in and getting books in a building. That's not true anymore. It's very, very untrue. So at the Sacramento Public Library and other places where you might be, they you might be able to access something called Canopy, which is a streaming service that is free through the library. If you have a Sacramento County Public Library card, you can use it. And Canopy has an incredible selection of of films, things like old school horror, like queer documentaries, a lot of amazing foreign films. Like it is so great, and nothing is free anymore, it feels like, and that's free. Yeah, and so using it for stuff like that, for like hoopla or libbby, where you can get free audiobooks and ebooks and sometimes comics.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

It's like everybody's so broke right now, and I feel like not enough people are utilizing the services that are around them, and it's super underrated. But Canopy is the big one I try and tell everybody about. It's a it's a free streaming service, yeah. And this the content is so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Does it work like hoopla where it's like buy rental?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

Yeah, so you might like your library might let you have like 10 rentals a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:54

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

Or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

That's still fucking it's a f again, it's free.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

It's free. Yeah. Like that's how I watched um I watched a documentary recently about Adrian Street, the wrestler, on um, you know, and so there that that is my like big underrated thing, is that people are always into like the ideas of libraries as a concept, but not as a practice, especially, you know, we've we lose a lot of um usership in the like 30 to 45, you know, like twenties, th late twenties to or whenever people start having kids. Yeah, and then they come back to libraries. But I'm like, people our age who are broke should be using it the most.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

And I think it's super underrated.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

I want to, especially now that you're saying comics because I'm trying to get back into reading comic books.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Yeah. So a l I mean I've never bought manga. I always get it from the library.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Because I'm not trying to buy a hundred volumes. No, especially like a piece.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

I think especially something like that for if you want to try books. Like if there's a manga that you're maybe interested in, it has you don't have to spend $20 on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

You can just go get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:05

The amount of volume ones of manga I have in my fucking home of books I never wanted to keep reading.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Because I was just like, I don't know where else to get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

I don't like the crunchy rollout.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

The library.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Get it from the library.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

Get it from the library. Help, get it from the library.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

Now they have wrestling at libraries.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

They do have wrestling at libraries.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Everyone's doing it now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Everyone's doing it now, but you know, not saying we were the first in the area, but I am. Because here's the cool thing that how it c I don't know if you knew knew this, but you probably did. But um, my one of my dearest friends, Ian. Um, we've been friends since I was in high school. He is one of the librarians at the Nevada County Public Library, and that was how our ugly dojo show at the library came together. Is we had talked about it for so long and we were like, haha, wouldn't this be funny? Haha, wouldn't this be funny?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

Then it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

And then it happened, and now we're Like shit, there's a lot of wrestling libraries, which I'm all for because you know, as whatever gets people through the doors, I'm very happy about it's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

Dude, those shows are so fun too. It is so many people who just like barely have ever seen wrestling. Yeah, just heard there's oh there's wrestling at the library and it's free. Yeah, like once again, it's free. It's free. It's let's go check out this. And then they have I've never seen a group of children hate me more than wrestling at the Nevada County Library.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Yeah, they're so passionate, so awesome, and just so excited, and like yeah, I it it it's so cool. Yeah, that's my favorite thing, but yeah, that would be my underrated thing for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

Go to the library, go to the library, get a library card right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

Library card. What are you doing? It's free.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

Oh, I thought you said go to the library cunt.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

I said get a library card.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

Get a library card, cunt.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Get a library card, you cunt.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Oh my god, dude. Well, well, Salem. Bree. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Of course. It was so fun. Yeah. I get so nervous every time I do one of these when I'm like insanely tired. And then I forget that I enjoy talking to my friends so much and means the world to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

I know. It's so crazy how that happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

I was like, I'm gonna be so boring. Oh god, I'm not gonna hold a conversation. And I look and I went, holy fuck, we've been going for over an hour. Oops, we gotta cut it. We gotta cut it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Whoopsie.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:30

No, this was such a blast. Yeah, thank you so much. I love you so much. I miss you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Be back around.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

Do you have where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Um, I'm at ref Brimontoya uh on Instagram and on Twitter. And that's that's pretty much the places where I post. Yeah, follow me on Instagram. I post uh highlights of what shows I'm gonna be at every month on my Instagram. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Yeah. Do you have anything to plug? Any stuff come upcoming that you care about? Um this comes out next Thursday, so it's pretty we're cutting it to the wire.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Oh my god. Don't ask me to plug. We've got there's the ugly dojo at Jackrabbit on Friday, May 15th. Um and yeah, then the following Friday I'll be at Drake's dealership for Slamtown on May 22nd. And I've got a lot there's a lot of stuff up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

A lot of shit. Follow on the Instagram. Yeah, keep up on the Instagram. Yeah, without that, all that'll be in the description too, so you guys can follow. Follow Brie. She's she's wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on, Eva. Of course. I love you so much. This is fun. Uh thank you everyone for watching. Appreciate it. Make sure you like, subscribe, and all that. And as always, thanks for stopping by.