Bender Kynaston Likes Niche Horror

Welcome back to the podcast! This week Salem sat down with her friend Ben to talk about horror movies, niche film knowledge, directing theater and performing, running a queer play festival and More! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

And then uh for like four months straight, I basically dressed exactly like Zach Baggins. And I took a picture of myself and said, That's rough. We gotta change that, and now I'm back.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

The problem is I'm transitioning into Zack Baggins.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

We met one time in a party setting.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

And all I remember about that day was showing up. I I weirdly, for all of performing I do and all of the oh, I just went to adjust my glasses and I realized they're not on. That's totally fine. Um all of the things performance-wise I do, I have horrific like social anxiety, as do I'm sure most of us. Yes. Um, and so I just remember very quietly sitting on a couch and looking over, and ghost encounters was playing on the television.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, I that sounds consistent. I think it was like the most like low stimulus background thing that we could think of that would be kind of fun to have in the background.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Which is interesting because for those who haven't seen Ghost Adventure or Ghost Adventures, what the fuck? Uh Ghost Encounters is a film where they will constantly just jump scare flash like scary people at you. So I'm really glad to know that that was the icebreaker. Was like, this will be chill for people to watch if they're not paying attention.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

I love I love a I love a horror movie in the background.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

It's great. I th I tend to throw on like the Evil Dead movies. I think they're they're a fun party background.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So fun. I mean, the the first one in particular has such like a vibe to it. Yeah, it's like so atmosphere heavy. Yeah. It's like you could really be tuned out and then come back and the whole house is filled with blood, and you're like, good.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Good, right, right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

As it should be.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

I unf I unfortunately feel like at a party setting, though, there's like I love all the Evil Dead movies. I feel like there's a like the vibes would be different if you showed up and I was playing Evil Dead one, like Sam Raimi's Evil Dead, or if I was playing like Evil Dead Rise.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:59

I think people are like, this one's fucked up looking. I don't want to look at this. This one's not as fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Is Evil Dead Rise the most recent one? Yes. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

The two with the kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I've only seen I saw it once and I was really high, so I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

That's a tough one to get high to.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

I I was high all the time at the time.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

I was high for all things, so that was baseline.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, exactly. Yes. Um, but I remember thinking it was really cool. And that actor's trans mask, that was that lead actor, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

I didn't I didn't know who he was, but you know, I don't listen.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Hey, you never know till you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

I don't want to clock people, but I looked and I said, Oh, this little sh that's a man.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

I know I knew it was a man, and I said that, and then the person I was watching the movie with was like, I think that's it, they're a female character, and I was like, Nope.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Oh, I knew that was someone's son immediately, but I just said short buzz cut, blonde, bleached blonde, and your name's Danny. Yeah, and you're a DJ.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

That's a man, Jessica.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

Sorry. No, I love them. I love that movie. I'm very excited for the new one. Are you I'm assuming you're big on you're big on the horror. I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I that I have I have weird corners of knowledge, so it's like there are like I I don't know ball in the most basic areas. Like I don't know a lot about Halloween, I don't know a lot about Texas Chainsaw, I've only seen the first three or four Saw movies. Like, there's always like there's just random corners where I know a lot, and it's a lot of like 80s horror movies that you've never heard of, or like movies like international horror movies. It's like I I just I went on shutter and I I bookmarked a bunch of things, and then I went and I created a wheel and randomized the the movies I watched, and I watched a bunch of movies, and so it's all really you're pulling out facts about the changeling. I wish I wish I would like I wish like the corners that I was in were like particularly interesting. It's just like I don't know, it's like idle hands and cat on the brain, and like these weird like corners where it's like, where did you even find that's fair though?

SPEAKER_04 4:05

It's fun. I'm kind of like I'm in a similar, but I'm very bad with watching like classic early horror.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Everyone, because I love horror movies so much, and everyone's always I get a lot of PDA. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

It's also, I think my biggest thing is I don't really care about the slasher genre all that much.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I think you have to really have something to say about the slasher genre for it to be fun. Like screams.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Screams over and it's like I think that's that very cold take.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Well, and even even now they're like they've kind of folded back into themselves, or it's like a it they don't even get the point anymore.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Well, because Wes Craven's dead, maybe um uh but yeah, no, 100%. And like, I don't know, it's like people have did you see In a Violent Nature?

SPEAKER_04 4:52

I did see In a Violent Nature. You know what? That's fair. Okay, I liked it, but I am also uh, you know, you basically, if you show me an hour and a half of shots of like a house, um a la skinner ink, okay, yeah, I'm like that's autor filmmaking, baby. We're it we're in it now. Give them a million dollars.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I'm in support of the art of it all for sure. I mean, the it's technically so impressive. Yes. I just I'm a storytelling bitch, and that movie is just so lacking in like storytelling and character.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Yeah, I I feel like, and I hate to say that because again, I don't want to take away like I think Inviolent Nature is a cool concept.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yes, it's a cool concept.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Could have been a short film, though. Totally, could have been like 20, 25 minutes. We would have got the same point.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

And did we get a lot of the same kills in I Know What You Did Last Summer? Yes. Yes, yes, we did.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Now, see, if he had been fucking up people like he fucked up that girl doing yoga, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

If there were more of that, I think you have to really, I think with the slasher, you have to have a really strong concept for how to do a cool kill. Yeah, it's like unless you're final destining, final destinationing these bitches, there's no point, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

I don't care about Friday the 13th. Jason putting someone zipping up someone in their sleeping bag and then beating them across a tree. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

That's really funny. Very good, very good. Yeah, yeah. I I subscribe to that.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Have you seen um The Collector?

SPEAKER_04 6:15

I have I actually made a video essay about The Collector.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

I love the Collector.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

I really like that movie. It's so good. I feel like it doesn't get enough attention.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

So underrated.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Does it make any sense half the things he does? No. No. Why is there suddenly 20 bear traps?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

No, how literally how many, like he was probably there for like three hours, four hours prior to things starting to happen for that to be possible.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

I need someone to break down the time frame between the family leaving, the termite control team leaving, and then the bad guy or the main character arriving to steal stuff. How much time did he have to set up all this?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I would love to know.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

When she grabs the scissors and it flings her into a projector screen that's full of spikes.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

When did he do that?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

But it's so good.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Who cares? So good.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

All the kills are so smart and cool. It's like, I just like, I'm such a fan of that movie. It's so smart. It's like, it's so, it's so stupid and so smart at the same time. And that's my favorite intersectional horror. It's like, it's also got like the grimiest, like twilight, twilight new moon type filter. It's such a gross-looking movie. So like grungy 2000s. I eat that shit all the way up.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

I love it. I love because did you watch the second one? I didn't. I did. I'm not a fan of the second movie. It really is bad. I don't watch it.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

It's an action movie, it's not a horror movie. It's very disappointing. It's just like they go back, they're basically like, have you seen the descent? Yes. Have you seen the second descent? It's yeah, it's the second descent to the descent movie.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

We said it's it's about the cool stuff now. It always happens. Why do we do that? I don't know. It's so it's the same thing happened with Saw.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

It's more like the second Saw movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's like they like all get trapped in the same building and then they're all responsible for rescuing each other, and then they all die. Someone who gives a fuck. But this yeah, the second one, it it's not that's not as good. There's some there's parts of it that are kind of interesting, but it's largely disappointing.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

Yeah. I I I was actually talking with Lee about this the other day. Uh it's a perfect example. I don't have you ever seen the first hostile movie.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

No. I I've heard hostels like kind of crazy, so I see to see it.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

The first hostel, there's some rough shit, right? It is about a bunch of rich people torturing tourists in the in a basement somewhere, right? But like I think it has a uh reputation of like I just fucking torture porn, it's just all this crap. But the first hostel, nothing violent happens for like 45 minutes. It is just like setting up the characters and why we should root for them, even though they kind of suck.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

That's significant because a lot of movies that are torture porn, all uh saw, most of Saw, in my personal opinion. Hello? Water bottle um is that like you don't really get to know the characters. No, you you get like two seconds of exposition for like where they are and basically who they are, and then they get tortured and die.

SPEAKER_04 9:21

And most of the things we learn about them are the bad shit that they do.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Exactly. So it's like, why do I care? And it's like, I I mean, I'm there for the gourd, of course, and I love the art of like practical effects when they're done. But it's just I I want to feel something, yeah, not just be like, oh, that was cool.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Like I just I have no It's yeah, it's hard to like get invested, yeah. Which again, like I don't think those that was those movies' goals. Yeah, but like it's also not gonna leave me with much to think about beyond.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Well, that's the thing about the first Saul movie is that you do get to know the characters a little bit. Are they flawed human beings? Absolutely. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

But but like those are great characters to have. Yeah, but we literally spend an hour and a half with them trapped in a bathroom, yeah, just talking.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

Which, like, I am, I don't know if you know this, I'm fluent in Japanese. I like I they when they make movies about people talking and doing not much else, that's specifically made for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

I mean, it's it's I think it's our theater background, yeah. Like the love of theater. It's like we love I love a sit, I love a sit and talk. I love watching them talk. I mean, if if it's well-developed dialogue, I'm never gonna complain about a lot of conversation.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

I I knew when I was like 12 and they showed me 12 angry men in in history class, and I was like, holy shit, they haven't left this room. This is crazy. They do just be talking about stuff.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

And good.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

And good as they should watching people change their mind about something through getting talked to, that was bananas. Yeah, I couldn't believe they did. I had seen like Blade up to that point. It's like I'd seen like four movies, and it was people punching and kicking each other.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

That's so real.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

Did you see um we I do want to talk about theater at some point, obviously. But we have time, but now I just need to ask you about horror movies. Did you see Obsession?

SPEAKER_01 11:10

I did, I just saw Obsession. Did you see it?

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Did you like it?

SPEAKER_01 11:13

I did, I liked it a lot.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Um, I I saw it so I saw it in the drive-ins, which was something of a mistake because of course you can't see things in the world. It's so fucking dark. I love the drive-in. I love the atmosphere of the drive-in. Yes. I'm I've never seen the drive-in so busy as it was last night. Like ever. And I I worked there for a little bit. Yeah. And it I I was like, whoa, what the fuck? Like Deadpool versus Wolverine didn't have this place as packed as it was last night. It I think it's like the I think it's the combination of the Star Wars movie. Yes. And then the two popping off horror movies.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

It's all word of mouth.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, and then it's Digital Circus. And there was, and the other one was um fucking the He-Man movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Did you know Mandy Patinkin was in the He-Man movie?

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Is he? Who is he? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

He died.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Right, shit.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

It was on the screen next to obsession.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Mandy, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

He's on the screen next to Obsession. So I kept catching glimpses of it. I was like, why is Mandy Patinkin here?

SPEAKER_04 12:10

I just imagine like watching the like the slow-mo scene where she's like in the bedroom and you're really scared. Then you just go, is that fucking Mandy Patinkin?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Like dead ass, basically, what happened to me. And then I was like, is that Alison Bree in a blonde wig? Like, I don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

I think I might need to see the He-Man movie. This kind of sounds a good one.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

It looks really visually stimulating. And it looks like it's making fun of a lot of the like action adventure genre. But I I don't know. I didn't see the movie. I just saw parts of it. Sub parts of it.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

That's all that's I feel like that's a core trait of going to the drive-ins is half watching 10 minutes of a different movie with no sound.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Absolutely. I love I love that about the drive-ins.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

I wish it was brighter because me we last time I went to the drive-ins, meanly saw the horror film Good Boy. That's all from the dogs perspective. And it was a lot of fun, but like, yeah, half the movie I was like, could be a ghost. Don't wouldn't know. Who knows? Wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Well, that's that it's hard with horror movies in general because the like uh we're all so afraid of color nowadays. Yeah. And it's like we late that all the color grading is so low, and then everything's so dark, and it's like, oh man, gee, I wish I knew what was going on.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Wish it wasn't the screen was turned on.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

And literally, it's like, and it, you know, it was okay for the most part. I caught most of it. My partner did not see anything.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

So I had to kind of like AVA, like say you're doing audio descriptions at the drive-ins. Yeah. Um, but it was still, I mean, it was still like, it's just a really good movie. Like, yeah, I I was like, I was doing read like I was doing some reading about like the writer's intention afterwards because I was like, I wonder how much of this was conscious. Yeah. Because it feels very like a very political film, but I don't know if he knew that he was making a political film or not. It really doesn't seem like he knew.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

I don't think he did.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I think he was basically like, people are selfish, and um that sucked when it uh at the cost of other people. And I was like, so true.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

So true, Bestie. Not the point of this movie. Like I'm sure there was some semblance of like knowledge of what he was making, right? Like, I uh you know, I know he probably had other people talking to him that yes, and like there's certain things, so I've seen this film three times. I'm supposed to see it a fourth, but I ended up having to cancel that one. I'm getting a tattoo about it. This movie meant a lot to me. Something about just like the filmmaking aspect was so I just love a wacky ass fucking movie.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

It's so cool. I mean, it's and it's like it's an independent film. There's like a lot of women working on it, a lot of practical effects. It's a really smart movie in terms of its creative design.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

As someone who wants to make films at some point, like it was cool to sit in a theater, and also it kind of like this is this is gonna get sidetracked for a second. I'm so sorry. Like, I I have a very normal opinion about movies. Like, I like movies a lot. Yeah, I love movies a lot, and like I can have deep thoughts and deep reviews about movies, but I also think it's okay to like movies a normal amount. Oh, absolutely. And I think with like the way the internet is about everything, but specifically about media, it's like all the takes are either like this movie raised both my children and walked them down the aisle on their wedding days, or like this movie made me kill my grandma, I was so mad.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

And it's like, or you just didn't like it that much.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

And that's okay. It's fine. No, it's it's I think there's um a lot I think it it you're right, it's the internet, it's the fact that we've like kind of been trained to believe that we can only have really polarizing opinions. Um, and that's just not true. Um, there's there's uh actually quite a bit of gray in the black and white of it all, and um actually most things are in it.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Most things are like I watch a lot of movies and I just go, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

And that's okay. Like, not all movies need to be great.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

No, and then people get fucking so mad. Like, I remember uh a lot of people, like a lot of my co-workers and people were like getting mad at me because I didn't like undertone that much.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Oh, it looked kind of ass.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

It just was like fine, like it was I didn't really care about the characters, and the whole pitch was like sound design, and sound stuff scares the shit out of me personally in my life. And there was like two cool things they did with sound in the fucking podcast horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

You know, the the do you ever play the app game Simulacra? I did that sound designed scary, bad time, yeah, not fun, and not even a game about sound. No, they just threw it in there for fun, freak you out, and like so it could actually be that easy. Yeah, so to fuck that up is kind of like dang.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

In the movie about hey, this is a podcast where we listen to scary stuff, yeah. And they said, anyway, they also they do listen, horror, just like comedy, is kind of subjective. Yeah, some like my mom is a great example of like ghost stuff doesn't really scare her, but like movies about like a killer in your house. Freak her the fuck out. Yeah, I don't care because I'll front kick someone in the chest. If you come in my house, you better have a bazooka.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Right. Because I'm going to I I have a plan everywhere I go to whack someone over the head with a lamp if I must.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

You're gonna you're not gonna like the visual when you turn my hallway and I'm there in like chust underwear with throwing stars. You're gonna be like, what the fuck is happening? You know what I mean? Yeah, but like ghouls and ghosts freak me the fuck out because I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, it's weird. And I'm also 12 years old, so I'm like scared of the dark.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

No, I get it.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

And so like weird sound stuff freaks me out. And some people are like, I there's a movie called Ganjam Haunted Asylum's a cream movie. I love Ganj. It's so fucked up. Am I saying it wrong?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I don't know. I I I am probably wrong.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

I don't know. However, you say it, the haunted asylum movie.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

So good.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

And that the noises the ghost makes, the fucking little like like that shit too. Yeah, no, for like a week.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I was like, no, I know. And my girlfriend did it to freak me out after we watched that movie, and I was like, I'm mad at you. I'll kick you. Like, I'm mad at you. Like there aren't a lot of things that freak me out, and that freaked me out bad.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

Bad. But then I've shown it to people and they're just like, This is stupid.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

I know, but I think it's that's the thing. You're right. It's so subjective. I was talking to I was talking to my best friend last night after we saw obsession about how like horror and comedy are so interrelated because it's all about like tension and timing.

SPEAKER_05 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

And so like it's like with and they're both very like political genres. There's always something to say with horror, unless there's not. And that's and it's always a mummer to me when there's not. Like it's like I always I always find myself really frustrated when I see a horror movie, and I'm like, oh, I think they're saying this about this, and it's like, oh no, I guess they're not.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

No, I guess not, huh?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Like um uh Barbarian.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

I hate that movie. Oh no, doesn't have anything to say about anything.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Fair.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Don't don't like Justin Long very much, to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

No, Justin Long is a very borderline mustache trolling villain in that film as well. Like he's like as evil as a guy could be.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Yeah, I haven't enjoyed him in a horror film since talk since Tusk.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

He's okay and um it's a wonderful knife.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Yeah, I think he just kind of got comfortable playing himself and stuff. Yeah, he got thrown in that role of which sometimes it works out for you and sometimes it doesn't. People probably get don't like this. I fucking hate Jeff Goldblum.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Oh, you're allowed to not like him.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

I'm so tired of he seems like a sweetie pot. Yeah, I'm so tired of him.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

He seems like a lovely man. Yes. But I agree. His performances are really middle grade. I mean, have you seen a fly? He's fantastic in the fly.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

That was before he got to just be Jeff Goldblum all the time.

unknown 19:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I bet since he started like stopped being, yeah, since he started being able to just cash a paycheck for being himself.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

I'm surprised they don't just credit him as Jeff. Yeah. Like they're not even the character who he is.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

It's just like not not the wizard, but Jeff. That's Mr. Jeff. No, absolutely, that's Mr. Jeff.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Yeah. It's I think Obsession was great, obviously. And I think it has also it has kind of poisoned everyone into thinking they're so smart and profound. Like it's not a complex film.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

No, it's actually uh very simple and straightforward in terms of its delivery of its themes.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Yeah, it's pretty and it because this is also I know there's specifically one friend out there who's gonna listen to this and he's gonna get mad at me because I I said earlier I like that it's really wacky and out and kind of bonkers, like the I Wish for a Billion Dollars scene.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I love that it was just so fucking like a comedy writer wrote it.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

Yeah, in the universe, it just fell from the sky. Yeah, but there's a director named Osgood Perkins.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yes, uh, long legs.

SPEAKER_04 20:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Not fond?

SPEAKER_04 20:53

I don't like Osgood Perkins.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

And you are allowed to have that opinion. I I like long legs.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

I think I blame myself for not liking long legs. I think the marketing hyped it up to such a degree that when I saw it, I went, somebody watched Silence of the Lambs and went, yeah, I could do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I could do that.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Yeah, and you're really What if I did that?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

No, you're so right. I mean that is what it is. And I'm I'm not doubt not gonna argue with you about that because you're right. It's just I like I really enjoyed a lot of the atmosphere. I think it was effectively creepy. I think that the like the things that it were was start like trying to do. I like I I I don't think it's a complete sentence. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's kind of like it kind of cuts off right before it could have been really good. Like it didn't, it doesn't finish, but I enjoy everything else about it.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

I think that's my thing is I was really enjoying Long Legs up until they catch the tissue the titular Mr. Long Legs. Yeah. He they like get him and then they go, This is the fucking fava bean scene. Yeah, he's getting his big monologue. And that was when I checked out. But again, this is a personal thing. I was going into the movie really hoping that this was gonna be the first time in possibly ever we saw Nick Cage be like wicked serious and scary because the marketing again, they do the scene. Oh, the first time she saw him, we hooked up a heart rate monitor to her and she was so scared. So I'm thinking, like, what is he gonna do? And what he did was he did Nick Cage stuff. And I said, Right, right, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah, I mean, yes. Yes. Um, and I did I did I enjoy it? Yes, yes, absolutely. It wasn't scary and not particularly that's how it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

And it is too, like, sometimes things are fine and then they kind of your opinion changes because they overstay their welcome a bit. Like, listen, I know you didn't like Barbarian. I do love me some Mr. Zachary Krager. Yeah, I love his movies. I liked Weapons, I thought it was fun. If I see one more drag performance as the aunt from Weapons, I'm gonna shut that place down. I've had quite enough. I've had listen, do what you want, knock it off.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

I yeah, I'll stand behind you clapping. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

Everyone who's gonna dress as Nikki and Bear for Halloween this year, we already know you're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

I know. My my best friend was like, the worst couple you know is gonna dress up as them.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

Yes, and everyone's gonna get fucking mad about that too. Do whatever you want. If you think her halter top is cute and you want to put a little blood on your face, that's your vibe, chief.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

But if you show up to my house party dressed like that, I'm gonna make fun of you. That's the trade-off.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, I think that's only fair.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

It's a free world, you can do whatever you want. I'm gonna go, come on.

unknown 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

Something else, maybe?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah. Couldn't I couldn't come with it?

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

I'm dressed like found that top with the freestyle clothing exchange, made a decision. Made a decision.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

I'm dressed like one of the contestants from Legends of the Hidden Temple. I had to think about mine.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So how does that tie into your opinion about obsession and Osgood Perkins? I Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

My friends always every time we I talk about I don't like Osgood Perkins, he loves to look me in the eyes and go, I guess you just need a little more whimsy in your life. And that drives me fucking nuts. That's not the point. And I want to kick him in the dead.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Because it's I don't wouldn't consider Osgood Perkins a particularly whimsical director.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

He's very cynical.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

He's a really cynical dude. I think it's just that he has some like he has some novel-ish ideas. Yeah. That's not the same thing as being whimsical.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

And I don't think his movies are poorly made or anything. He's clearly a very talented director. No, yeah. I just I've watched all of his big ones of the last couple years, and each time I went, that just wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah. If it doesn't hit, it doesn't hit it. It's just not my bag.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

Yeah, I can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

No. Like I think And moreover, you don't have to.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

No, I think that's my fucking issue, is like everyone loves to look at you and go, you just didn't understand this film. People are doing this with backrooms right now. It's fucking driving me nuts.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

I guess you just like only jump scare fests. It's like, hey man, I'm like a number one skinner ink defender. That movie is just shots of someone's old house. Good. If you like backrooms, that's cool. I watched it and went, I don't I understood the movie. Yeah. It told me what it was about. Yeah. And I I was like, sure, pal.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

The backrooms is the trauma we made along the way. Yeah. Or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Well, ain't it always?

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Ain't it always?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah. I love well, that's that's my favorite thing about most paranormal horror is that it's all about trauma. Yeah. And like it or it's about trauma, it's about history, it's about grief. It's like whatever. I've like, and I find that really interesting. Like I dig really deep into that kind of thing personally. Did you not feel like it did a good job with executing that? Or did you just feel like it was a little like, what how did you why didn't you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Yeah, I think it was just that I felt like the message was very, very apparent.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Oh, it was too straightforward. Yeah, and they can through it.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Didn't do anything interesting with it beyond that. Uh it was like I don't need a resolution. I'm okay with like bleak endings or characters being sad, but I just feel like it introduced the idea and then was like, okay, we're gonna put that over here because these rooms, look how fucked up these rooms are. And it was like, oh, okay. Are we gonna come back to that? And he was like, like we can, but like again, these rooms.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

But aren't they so fucked up?

SPEAKER_04 26:20

These rooms are so back, and they're here. And I went, okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

These rooms are so back.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

And then the last shot is like, fuck, sorry. Trauma, trauma. Cool. Back rooms.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Got it. Also, jingle jingle.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

You saw it. Jingle jingle. Do you remember the YouTube series? I do. I made it. And I went, Yes, sir. Yes, Mr. Kane, I do know.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Yeah. So it's not like again, it's not a bad film, it's not a poorly made film. The acting's fucking banana. Chidwill AJ4 is going nutty in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah. I mean, it looks great. I still haven't seen it yet.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

I just watched it and again went like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

They were they were in those back rooms.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yes, they were. They were back there. They were back in those rooms, baby.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

It was truly because I actually like, um, I won't like there's not really anything to spoil. It's a fucking movie where there's rooms and they're hella crazy looking. Yeah. Uh I like that they don't follow the typical like sometimes movie it would have been so easy to make the movie entirely found footage.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Because of the the original series is. But I like that they flop back and forth for like extended periods of time. Like it's not just like, here's one camera. Like, there's a there's like half an hour in the middle where it's just all found footage. And like when the person with the camera like goes away or whatever, the whatever happens with the camera, it just goes back to normal movie. And I was like, that's great. I love this shit. Fuck it. Who cares? Do whatever you want. Absolutely. I'm here. This because that's the thing. People are like, well, why would they keep filming? It's like this movie is about infinite rooms with ghouls in them. I'm not drawing the line at like, why would they have a camera?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 27:51

What do you mean? Like, why wouldn't they have a camera?

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Like, yeah, I was really down with all like the monsters and evil guys and like the rooms that never end.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

But if I was in there, I'd put the camera down.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Yeah, I would have I would have put that camera down. It's like, okay, right, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, I don't think you would.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

To be honest. Because like, wouldn't you want to record it? Especially after a certain point. I think it's the sunk cost of it all, where it's like, I've I've filmed as much of this as I can, I'm gonna keep doing it. It's like uh it's like grave encounters.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Yes, like I why would I stop? First of all, we're making a TV show. Second of all, no one's gonna believe me.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, if I don't film it, I don't record this, no one's gonna know.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Even the ghosts start recording in ghost encounters at one point.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

I love it. It's so so good. Peak peaks in a minute. Yeah, not not that good, but I love it. But you know what I mean? Yeah, like it's not a great movie.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

I love it, but that's what makes it so great.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I love I love the um the public flagellation of Zack Baggins.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

One of the roughest periods of my life was a couple years ago. I was doing really really poorly mentally. I was like frustrated where life stuff was as a trans person. So I lightweight kind of not to get vulnerable in the pod, but I lightweight I lightweight kind of uh gaslit myself into like borderline detransitioning because I was like, I was like, oh, everything sucks. Like trying to get opportunities as a trans person, maybe I'm not trans. And my brain was like, that makes sense. And then uh for like four months straight, I basically dressed exactly like Zach Baggins, and I took a picture of myself and said, That's rough. We gotta change that, and now I'm back.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I the problem is I'm transitioning into Zack Baggins.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

I'm just saying you're having a very similar life path, but on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

No, but like I do like I do describe like my like my gender as like the guy in the horror movie who knows too much about horror movies and is thus suspicious as like the killer.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

You're the Randy.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Um, yeah, or like the Stu Mocker. Yeah. Like I'm I I um there's a horror movie I really love. It's a Spanish horror movie called Thessus. Love it, love it, love it. Um, and the the like one of the so it's about this girl who uncovers a well, she's doing her thesis on snuff films, and she um finds a snuff film that was filmed uh and has one of her classmates in it. Oh um, and she goes about trying to find out what had happened and who did it, and um, there's two suspects that she's also kind of like stuck between romantically. Um and the uh the the long-haired gentleman, his name is Gemma, he's so gender-free me. He's he's he's like he's this like freak guy who has like gore porn VHS collection in his weird house covered in creepy murals.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

And you looked at it and said and then said, he just like me for real.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And then I bought these glasses. And if you were to look at a picture of Chema and a picture of me, you'd be like, oh, I see the I see the cute what's going on there. But yeah, no, love that movie. So effective.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

I have to grab that from you afterwards because that sounds sick. Oh, it's I love that.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

It's like it's like two hours, ten minutes, and I usually like I usually like a horror movie to be around 90 minutes. That's my ideal. But I it's so actually suspenseful that you're like, and I I I have really good pattern recognition, so usually I'm like, oh, I know, I know what's going on quite early, and especially with something that's like a who got it, like this this kind of is. Yeah, it I you would expect that I would be able to be like, well, I know who it is, I don't I don't care anymore. I the whole time I kept in double checking. I would have kept like double like second guessing myself. I kept being like, wait, but but and it's no, it's so cool, so well done. It's uh it came out the same year as Scream. Oh, it's like it's I would consider it probably like the Spanish version.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

It's very fucking sick. Do you watch a lot of like foreign horror?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Um, I watch like a decent amount, yeah. Um I I like I said, like I just went on shutter and I like bookmarked a bunch of shit, and a lot of it's foreign. So I've seen like I've seen maybe I don't know. I've seen a good handful of yeah movies. Um, but I wouldn't consider myself to be like especially well versed in any particular kind of foreign horror movie. I've just like I've seen stuff from Indonesia, I've seen stuff from France, I've seen stuff from Spain, I've seen stuff from like Mexico, I've seen stuff from Japan, from Korea, but it's all like one or two all over place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

I'm like, I watch a lot of foreign horror because I'm that bitch. Um uh I'm particularly partial to Asian horror. Like there's something about the way they really scares the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

I I really, really enjoy Asian horror as well. I think it's really, really smart.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Um, you've seen House.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

I actually haven't. I need to. You have to. It's so fucking bonkers wacky.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

It's so good. I mean, it's it's like it's really camp, but also like very effectively creepy at the same time. And the music is like really annoying. I I it's very fun.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

It's on my list of of things. It's just one I'm like, I need I feel like I need to watch that with people. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Oh yeah, no, it's it's one to kind of kiki over. Yeah, but it's it's it's very good.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

I'm unfortunately too, like, I I think I'm the opposite. I love a three-hour movie that's borderline about nothing. I don't know what the fuck my problem is.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

You're allowed. You're allowed to be.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

But that's that movie that you brought up too is so specifically, like I said, like designed for me because I love movies about people trying to solve something. Yeah. I just something about like uh this isn't like, you know, technically like the best movie in the world. I don't know. Apparently, according to variety, it's the scariest movie ever made. Have you ever seen Sinister?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Oh, I don't I I watched the beginning of it. I think I watched, I may have watched the first movie, but I couldn't get in. I couldn't lock into it. You couldn't just didn't hit that's fair.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

It's so like, again, it's I mean, there's two reasons I can see people being put off. Number one, first second of the film is four people being hung from a tree.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Right, not a problem for me. Yeah, but I could see I haven't seen Sinister. Maybe I've seen Insidious.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Maybe Insidious.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Maybe I think it might be insidious, I'm thinking of. I don't know. Some of those like like um We gotta stop naming them one word scary word. Those like that that that white couple investigates a creepy house, like left subgenre of horror.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

I get along in shot.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

White couple investigates a creepy house is actually uh my uh that's just on the front of me and Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

The one it's the one.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

It's uh conjuring? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

I think I'm thinking of the conjuring as well. Probably. But I think it's just all those white men look the same to me.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

Well, funny thing, the white man from conjuring and the white man from Insidious are the same.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Oh now it all starts, it's whole surgeon.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Yes, he is the king of white couple who investigates scary house. Somebody had to do it, somebody had to do it, and it was my King Patrick. Ralph from Phantom of the Opera? Come on, come on, get him in there. Yeah, though I I have a soft spot for the conjuring movies because I saw them when I was, you know, younger.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

Um, are they good? Not really. Yeah, it's like a fucking spooky house jump scare, but what will save you? The man up there.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Always, yeah. Um, I I don't know. It's like the conjuring and paranormal activity follow very much into the same like corner of movies I just couldn't give a fuck about. I just couldn't give a fuck. Yeah, it's just like I don't care. It's not interesting to me at all. And I love paranormal stuff. It just to me it misses the point of paranormal stuff.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

It does. It's it is like ghosts moving shit is the only reason these movies exist.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

My brother, who I am not on speaking terms with for completely unrelated reasons to what I'm about to say, used to always joke about how uh how ghosts are just the world's slowest interior decorator.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

It's pretty good, pretty solid. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

I think the vase would look really good over here. Oh, I want to steal it as a concept.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Like an interior designer who died and haunts a house, and he just keeps being like, uh I really don't fuck with her, that bowl's sitting.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, just a really, just a really gay interior design of this. It's just like, I can't believe you brought this god-awful rug into my house and he just rips it to shit.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

Just talking to the priest every morning, I find the rug in the trash.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So funny.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

No, yeah. Sinister is not well, it isn't about a white man investigating a creepy scenario.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Okay, so like Yeah, not very related.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

Yes, but it's kind of it's it's uh I guess it's an it's like a fever dream sort of kind of so he moves into a house. He's an author. Oh he write book as wants to do.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

That's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

Yes, and uh he moves into a house without telling his family that it's a murder house. Uh and he's writing a book about kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

And then uh he finds a box of creepy, like Super 8 films in the attic, and it's about a bunch of different murders.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

No, I have seen the film. I I I I enjoyed it slightly more than I have enjoyed the other movies.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Then I enjoyed the other in the genre. Again, it's not a perfect film, but I the best scenes in the movie because like especially towards the back half when they start doing like ghost kids running around doing it starts to lose me a little, but like the first half of literally just like this guy in his office watching these terrible things and kind of going crazy. Yeah, that's what I love about the movie, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Oh man, you'll you'll like Tesses.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Yeah, is that yeah, that no, right when you said it, I was like, that sounds like a lie.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

There's just there's a there's a little bit of that. Uh you ever get into the Magnus Archives?

unknown 38:18

I'm trying.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

I'm trying so hard. I believe in you. You'll get there. I'm trying. There's this, um, so there becomes a point in Magnus Archives where they start categorizing horror, like different kinds of horror and fear. And um, my favorite is the categorizes the eye. So it's like this idea of like being a voyeur to horror horror and how that implicates you in the horror. Um, and I think that that is like such a like it's my favorite thing to see in a horror movie, and Tessis is like Tessus is that. Um, there's a movie that I was gonna save till the end as my underrated thing, but it's called Dread 2009. Okay. Um, and it's also in that same genre. There's also um it's called it's a fuck. It's a Spanish movie, and oh, I can't remember the name of it right now.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

It's slipping out of my brain.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

But uh there's another like uh Spanish horror movie that's like about this like um horror movie editor who um who has a best friend who goes crazy um like and films himself like descending into addiction to a camera. Um it's called oh fuck, I think it's called like Raptured or or something similar. I'd I'll I'll find it before you before I leave. But it's it's such a like hard watch. But I love, I don't know, there's something about that. I don't know. I want to watch um, I still haven't seen that Cronenberg movie, the one where he where the television have flesh in it. You know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Is it uh where the television have flesh in there? Uh is it video drum? Yes, yes, yeah. Thank you. We got it.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yay! The one where you want to fuck the TV. I I I want to watch video drum really bad, but I'm like, I'm kind of scared because I like I know I'm gonna really love it. I think it might become a major facet of my personality.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

I know I'm really gonna want to fuck the TV after.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

I also really want to watch Crash. He because that's the one where he wants to fuck cars.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, we gotta stop. Listen, I know there's a million movies, gotta stop naming movies the same thing because I thought you were talking about the Oscar best picture winner crash, where uh everyone's just like wicked racist to each other and then they learn like shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

That feels like uh, yeah, yeah, that feels like a a good old waste of time.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Yeah, but instead you're talking about the one who wants to fuck car crashes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

For sure. Uh the uh James Spade.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Everybody loves that guy. Everybody loves that guy. I don't know if it's just my particular corner of the of TikTok, but I get a lot of James Spade like thirst throughout edits. Like so many.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

Y'all are watching Jacob Alorty edits? I'm watching fucking Crash Edits.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah, no, deadass.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

I'm watching, I'm watching the TV from Video Drone Thirst Edits.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

The frequency with which I'm getting the secretary, like on my on my on my TikTok, although I have not seen the film, is just insane. It's like probably like once per day, I'm at least getting one edit.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Holy shit. I love that. Do you ever want to direct movies? No.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Not particularly. I it's not um it's not a skill set I feel I have. That's right. I I I it's something that maybe if I were to like take a film class, I would be interested in doing. But um, I think it's it's I think it's a different muscle.

SPEAKER_05 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

And I don't think I've developed it. Like I have um I have some perspective on like the kind of work that it would take, and I could probably like I think I could do it. Yeah. I just think that um I I enjoy live theater so much more, and I have a much better understanding of how to craft live theater than I would understand how to do film. That's where I'm completely different beats. And I know so many more people involved in theater than I know in film, and getting together a team for a film would be damn near impossible with people that I know right now.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

I'm shitting myself about it because I'm gonna start making short films soon, and I'm like, hey, who the fuck am I getting for that?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yeah. But uh I know a lot of actors, so when when you're ready to cast, I'm happy to help you with that.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

But I think that's kind of my one problem is on like everyone I know is an actor.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:49

No one I know wants to make shit.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Um I know um actually I know another um young trans woman. Um, she's 20, and she's in school for films. Okay. Um and she's directed some short films, so she would maybe give you some if I could try to at least connect y'all so that she could maybe refer you to other folks that she knows in the community that way.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

I would I want to make cool stuff. I have a lot of ideas, and I'm in my um era of trying stuff. I'm trying shit because so I was a wrestler for 10 years. Um, or like 11 or 12, honestly. Wow. Um, yeah, I've been doing wrestling for a long, long time. Um, you know, love it, but like was getting to the point where I was kind of growing frustrated with like my lack of passion for it. I was kind of falling out of love with it. I wasn't getting, you know, not to say like I'm owed opportunities or anything. I just wasn't getting where I wanted to go. And I was thinking maybe this, you know, I I had a realization where I was like, this is never gonna be my career, unfortunately, especially being a a trans woman, and especially being a trans woman who like doesn't voice train and stuff like that. I was like, this isn't. Isn't really the space for me to end up on television.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

I'm sure wrestling is probably not uh progressing as fast as some other places.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

Yes. Like, and there is like, you know, because there are like trans wrestlers. Um, the and you know, there's a lot across the world, but there's a very few on TV, and the ones who are don't look or sound like me. So, like, and that nothing, you know, whatever. That's just the state we're in. But I was like, I've spent so much time doing this thing that's really fucking up my body. I need to take well, you know, wrestling a match and then crying after like a lot, like every time, was like, maybe I just need to step away for a bit.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah, why would you do something?

SPEAKER_04 44:39

And so I took a break and I just focused on me, and so now I'm in my era of trying shit. Um, I've been doing improv, which has been great. I have my first improv show, June 18th, at the Sacramento Comedy Spot. Um, I've been getting doing this.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Sorry, let's say I don't do it but do you know, did you know that there's um two trans sketch and improv groups that perform out of stab comedy theater? Yes, I've been meaning to look in there because they have a lot of I know, um, I know like two, like I actually a lot of the folks from EQ are from SketchUps. Yes, um, and yeah, so I if you want like an intro or something, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

Well, when I want to come do an EQ at some point, I just things are calming down now, so it's more realistic. The first time it was a little out of bonkers, and I was like, maybe not, but yeah, we're gonna get on one, I swear. I'm gonna put the work in. Um, and it's not gonna be through friend nepotism.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

No.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

I'm just gonna audition do good.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Um, so uh and for those of you who are not preview to what an EQ is, yeah, um, Experimental Quickies is um a play festival that we did for the first time in November um and are doing again um right now. Um it performs uh June 20th to June 28th, um Saturdays and Sundays. Um and it's well all um original plays um written by trans and queer comedians, uh, well, and now just trans and queer writers, um, directed by trans and queer directors, starring largely trans and queer actors. Um it's been such a cool experience. Yeah, I I really I really recommend being a part of it next time if you can, because um it's it's really cool to see. We've got two baby trans girls in it this time, like baby baby. There's like a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old. They're like little and they're like and they're getting to do theater as themselves. Yeah, and it's so cool. There's just I think that's like such an amazing opportunity to get to have so early because a lot of us like we didn't, I mean, I wasn't I didn't know who I was until I was like already out of high school. And by the time that I had realized who I was, I didn't really want to do theater about it. Yeah, and then I like I went back to theater and I was playing cis characters, and it just doesn't feel the same, like you know, like even it, even though the gender I align with the gender of the character, it I I'm performing a cis role as a trans man, so my lived experience is not aligned with the lived experience of the character, so much so that there's just a cognitive dissonance there. Um, I think it's really cool to have like explicitly trans characters play.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

I think that's probably my favorite thing about each other well and written from trans experience because you know there are trans roles, but a lot of the times they're written by non-trans people, yeah. Um, and it can feel very like even when it's written not from a place of malice, it can still feel like there at the at the very, very least, a lack of understanding of like a true.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

There's such a uh it's kind of like as like early queer like representation, like just same sex, same gender love representation was where it's like a barrier gaze kind of situation. It's like that's like trans people, it's just like only trans people can actually only be miserable, it turns out.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

They're only sad and they hate themselves, or they're tragic and they die. And it's like, or they just like all the trans people I know just like hang out, like go to the they're just like normal people. Yeah, we we just like come over and like do you want to hop on Fortnite? You know, no, no, don't, but like you know, or like I mean fucking I just I don't know, like I mean I get sad sometimes, but like that's not the point. That's not the point. I also just like I buy shit, yeah. You know, I like to go out and do stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

I it's just human. Yeah, I and um yeah, like I I wrote one of the plays for EQ this time. Nice. Um it's it's a horror play.

SPEAKER_05 48:44

I want to write one.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

And the the lead character is a trans man, but I'd never talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 48:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

It's just he he's written to be a trans man, but he's it's never discussed. It's not important. There's nothing in the dialogue to imply that he's trans. You just know he is, and that's it. You just move forward. Don't because um I don't I don't think there's any point in because I was talking to a friend about um about my play, and they were like, well, you maybe you could add some kind of line of dialogue about the relationships in the family, too, because I I the there's two characters that are related to each other, and I don't explicitly say that. There's actually there's nothing even to like strictly imply it. Um, but they were like, well, maybe you could add some kind of dialogue in there about like the family background, and and they like threw in like, well, maybe somebody's not accepting of Belle. And I was like, I don't I don't need that.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yeah, for what?

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Like, there's no point.

SPEAKER_04 49:43

What does that add to the show?

SPEAKER_01 49:44

It doesn't add anything, especially because of the messaging of the show and the things I'm trying to accomplish with it, it really wouldn't help. Because like, um, one of the things, so there's a lot of themes I'm exploring with my with my script. Um, one of them, which kind of came out while I was writing it, because I was it's so the concept, so here's the summary. This guy named Bell gets a job at a drive-in movie theater and discovers that like they everyone there is like really checked out emotionally, and then he starts to notice that everyone else around him that everyone else around him is like also really checked out emotionally, and that there's like this like kind of um there's almost this cult like attitude of apathy that's universal in his life. Um, and it's like all about him like getting freaked out about that, and then it comes to kind of like a supernatural implied conclusion. Um but the the whole thing to me is like it it started out as an exploration of what it feels like to be sober. Um, because when I was working at the drive-in movie theater, and yes, it is based somewhat on my real life experience, although several of the characters are not real people. Um I uh I was working at the movie theater and I had just quit weed. I had I had just quit weed like maybe four or five months earlier, um, and I wasn't smoking cigarettes, and I was like sober as fuck at this job where everyone around me was vaping and smoking.

SPEAKER_05 51:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

And I was like, oh my god, this is awful. Because like there's also such a liminal vibe to a drive-in. Yeah, like you're just surrounded by all of these stories and lives that are walking around around you where you're not connected at all.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

And it's so interesting. It it leads to such a strange like disassociation and cognitive dissonance to like be in that space. And it I was just like meditating on that a lot while I was working there. So the play is exploring that, it's exploring the ideas of like how it feels like everyone else around you is numbing themselves to get through the monotony of late stage capitalism. Yeah, and if you are numbing yourself, then you are like this like lone force of like, but can we give a fuck about something? Is it okay? Is it okay for us to give a fuck about something? Um and it's about it's also about like conformity and it's about um like yeah, like it's about just how scary it is that we like are expected to just forego our personalities when we're at work, also. Yeah, like how we're basically just supposed to like represent the company or represent the job because they can't take any risk of you being a person at work.

SPEAKER_05 52:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Um, and there's uh a theme that came out while I was writing it, which is also about um like being a trans man in the world and accidentally inheriting the benefits of the patriarchy. Um, and that is like one of the things where I was like, oh, that's kind of a cool thing about but like having a line about like saying something about how Belle is trans or like people detracting from the fact that he's trans wouldn't help that theme at all. Because the the fact of the matter is with trans men largely, once you transition, your your identity isn't of no one's concern anymore. They don't care, like you're a man now, they don't give a fuck. And they're and like if they're questioning it, it's like you know, it's just to be an asshole. But for the most part, like people just start looking at you like a man, and there's no more intersection of like you were you were a woman and you had that lived experience, it's all gone. It's like that's all this discourse around trans men is like you know, like trans men don't get to be part of conversations about women's autonomy or like you know, female bodies and represent like you know, uh reproductive rights and that kind of thing. Right because as soon as you transition into a man, you're a man, you're a man, yeah, and that's it. And um, I think that that's kind of something I'm I'm exploring with that too, is like once you transition into a man, people just stop caring about you in a way, like they still care about you as an individual person, but it's not the same. You don't get the same kind of um like companionship with women that you used to have, and you don't get you get a different kind of companionship and kinship with men than cis men do. Not and sometimes cis men will surprise you and show up and have that same brotherhood. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 55:02

But it's it's not as but it's that it's that like because I'm there's a part of it too, and this is like a little different, but like in the way of like if I walk into a building and I see mostly women or mostly queer people, there's an inherent safety net that I'm going to feel. And like, so I can only imagine whereas if I walk into a space and it's mostly cis men, yeah, I'm gonna feel a little you know, yeah, concerned. But I feel like now there's that same thing, plus that detachment from cis men, that like feeling like there's the loss of any community, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

That you know and that's very man. Yeah, yeah. It is because men also feel very lonely in their ability to connect with their own communities, yeah, and like and with other men. Like it's just it's very like isolation societally is a very male experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

Um, and like I Well, because they're taught that community is gay or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Exactly, totally, and that is like that's the fault of community, and that's the that's the like that's the other side of the coin of feminism, right? Like the women experience like and women in femme presenting people experience like a certain kind of oppression, and then men have the the pressure of enforcing that oppression. Yeah, and there's this weird, I think it it it the point is it hurts both sides. Yes, but yes, of course women in femme presenting people have it worse.

SPEAKER_04 56:35

I'm just saying you're drawing from your experience for what you can talk about in this show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 56:41

And just everyone, calm down.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Uh pea soup.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

Or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Um, but yeah, no, it's like And then the Hat Man shows up. Well, the Hat Man's in a different play, actually.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

I thought so. Okay. I saw the poster, and I'm like, that looks like the hat man for sure.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

That hat man's in the play. The hat man's being played by a non-binary person with very long hair. Love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

Love that. We couldn't get James Spade, so that's super excited. I'm excited to see it. I want to come see him this time. Um, like I said, I want to be a part of one in some capacity now that life is calming down a little bit. And again, I'm in my era of trying because that's my thing too, is like theater was something I always wanted to do. I didn't get to do it because I played sports in high school. Waste of time. And it's one of my I try not to have like regrets, but it's one of my biggest like things I harp on. It's like, damn, I really wish I did theater. Yeah. Would have figured some stuff out a lot sooner, first of all.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:37

But also I would have knees that work, and I would have probably skills that I like better than what uh punching another teenager got me.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:47

In so other people could throw a ball around.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 57:50

That didn't really benefit my life all that much as a 28-year-old. Um but like the daunt, I mean, there's two daunting parts of starting theater when you're 28, which is that like all of these local theater companies have dynamics and have people and have relationships, and I'm scared to go in and be like, I'm new, and then have to play a fucking tree or whatever. It's great, it's important, but like I'm also a fucking head case, and I'm like, oh, if I have to be ensemble, I'm just gonna throw up and I would be so sad. Um, but that's also because I was like instilled in me that I need to shoot for the stars with everything I do and go full effect, and then if I don't get what I want out of it, I'm gonna be sad about it. Yeah. It's a trauma we're unlearning, right? But we're working on it, but we're not quite there yet. For sure. Um, but also there's the added thing of like again, being a trans woman doesn't voice train, going into theater specifically, musical theater.

unknown 58:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:40

I know. What are the roles they're gonna give me?

SPEAKER_01 58:43

I know. It's it it's that's the thing that's cool about EQ and actually about Spectrum Stage, who are hosting us this time. Um, they're a queer theater company. Yes. Um they're I don't know if they have plans on doing any musicals in the future, but they're a very inclusive theater company, very cool. They're all like very like queer and neurodivergent people, and it's just like it's a very safe environment. Um, but like one of our our writers from this year and one of our actors from last time um had some really adverse experiences with being a trans woman in theater. Um, and so like she was almost discouraged from doing it anymore until she came to EQ. And so I think there's like, I think there's it we're doing something that's kind of really important. Yes, absolutely where because we're like also, I mean, we have a musical in the EQ this year. Um and it's it's a trans mask-led musical, but um it's like it's giving queer people and trans people post-transition an opportunity to sing, which is something that is like actually a very rare thing. Um, and it's like I think there's something so scary about one existing as a trans person in the world, um, and being a trans woman, especially, um, but then going into like a theater space where there's all of this like um unspoken politics, right? Like it a lot of it is like social politics in terms of like, you know, I like this person and this person is our favorite person that we use for everything, blah blah blah blah. Yeah. But then there's also like a lot of the time these like directors, even when they're like largely they're liberal people, they still have things that they get hung up on.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

And um, they there's always like um an aspect of like, I don't know how you really feel about this thing. Yeah, I don't know how you really feel about my transness and when I walk into this space. I can't anticipate how that will affect the way that you perceive me.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

And one of the things that's really hard about theater in general is all about like, I don't know how when I walk into the room, someone's gonna perceive me. Yeah. Um, and uh my partner is a fat like trans person, and they feel really uncomfortable in casting because they feel like they're automatically shunned to to the back because they're fat.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

And um, like I know that like queerness and transness can affect people's like ability to be seen in that way also. And so like it's really it's really cool to be doing EQ where like we center people that are at the hardest intersections. Um, we have a lot of people who are people of color, fat, trans, like people of all different body types, colors, genders, like all getting the opportunity to play full embodied roles. Yeah um, and it's really it's just it's unfortunate that that is an exception to the rule.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

But it is like so cool to be starting that, and I'm like, I'm walking away from it because I'm moving, but I'm I'm gonna be in touch with I'm still gonna be kind of like executive boards when I walk away, but they they're planning on doing it again without me physically there. So it's going to live on past my influence, which is like so cool. And I of course have to acknowledge Frankie, who's my co-producer. Yeah, um, they came up with the concept, it was their idea in the first place, and um, without them, we wouldn't have built this space at all. So, like, um, I'm like, I'm really proud of my part in it, but I'm also really grateful that Frankie gave me the opportunity to build this space because I I don't know that I would have um of my own mind produced this kind of thing. Yeah um but it's been it's been so amazing. It's just like it's just such an exceptionally like alive and safe space. Yeah. And I just I can't like I I can't wait for you to get to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:10

Yeah, I want to so bad. Like I I try and do one thing I've learned over the last 10 years is that wrestling and theater have so much crossover in terms of so much crossover. Um, but like that's something too that like I'm trying to do with wrestling as well, is like I kind of have that same thing of like, you know, again, I'm bigger, I'm brown, I'm trans, and I have a deeper voice. So like, and then too, like the way I do things, like when I come through the curtain, um, I know you've never seen gotten to see me wrestle, but like I'm loud, I yell, I'm last fucking uh so like there is that inherent, like how are people gonna perceive me in the few seconds they see me walk through the curtain? Yeah, what are they gonna think? Yeah, you know, and um especially when I'm doing like huge shows in front of thousands of people at like places where I'm like I don't know, like I do uh I wrestle in Fresno a lot. Not my favorite place to be as a as a trans woman. Um but like and you'll be surprised sometimes people are just down, like they don't get you know, they don't give a fuck. Like you're they don't see anything, they just see a wrestler in the ring.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:15

Um but like it can be very daunting. Yeah. Um, and sometimes it does go poorly, and I have you know, I have to smack someone around a little bit. But like I've had altercations with fans who were who say terrible things to me or other trans people. So like trying to create and then it's the same with wrestling where like I've had so many like promoters or bookers who like I know in their heart they see me who, you know, they see me how I want to be. They're totally an ally, but like they still get hung up on certain things, and I'm only wrestling men at their company, or um, you know, I'm only wrestling the smallest woman they have, so I can throw them around and be big, strong, hurrah. Um I'm doing all women's shows where one of the bits that they want to do is one of the men from the company running in with a wig and trying to get on the show.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:08

Shit like that. Yeah. You know, or I'm wrestling, I'm even I'm wrestling a cis woman and she wants to do a spot where I lowblow her and uh-oh, she doesn't have one of those, so why would I try that? Because she girl obviously doesn't have one. It's shit like that that's like so ingrained in the sport and the culture that like we're still unlearning that. Um so one of the things I'm trying to do, and several other people are trying to do, is like create all queer spaces in wrestling. Obviously, recently there was there was some stuff with that that went wrong, but we're trying it again. My very good friend Kid Bandit bought uh bought out the company and is um working within LA uh doing her first event July 3rd for T for T Wrestling. Yeah, um, which I'm very excited about. So fucking phenomenal names on it. Um I'm gonna Be there. Uh check that out if you're in Los Angeles. Um, but like that's a thing that like we're hoping to grow, and it's just like queer people show up and we wrestle we kick the fuck out of each other, and we don't have to worry about that shit, yeah. You know, um, because it is such a terrible thing, like to constantly be worried about that. Like, I'm gonna go through the because such a part of wrestling is like grinding and going to these little shitty shows here and there, and it sucks when all my friends are like, Yeah, we're driving up to Reading for a show, and now I have to worry about not only am I gonna do well, am I going to be safe? Right, right? Yeah, am I gonna be safe going to pretend fight somewhere? That's stupid, yeah. You know, so creating spaces and it like it like you were saying, like it sucks that it has to feel like it's like uh like we're breaking the rules or we're breaking new ground.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Doing something new, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:53

It sucks to always have to feel like you're break you know, yeah, like breaking new ground in this field, it should just be that way, but like someone has to do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

So because like um not inclusivity, not all inclusivity is created equal. Yeah, like there's there's inclusivity in a lot of theater, but it's not necessarily mindful inclusivity, yes, or purposeful inclusivity. Um, and I think there's a a very real um need for that is like and there's I mean there's there's theater festivals like ours popping up all over the place.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Um there is are plenty that have predated us. Um there's one um Bindlestiff does queer as fuck, um which is a Filipino theater company. I believe they're the only Filipino theater company in the country, or at least on the West Coast, that owns their own space. Um, they have uh this like yearly queer theater festival like ours, um, but theirs is a a Filipino and like um like Mexican, like focused queer like theater festival, which is so cool. Um, and then there's one that popped up in LA, um uh the Joy Who Lived, which has all sorts of different kinds of like art being showcased with all sorts of different kinds of people. And um it's it's really cool to know that like this thing that we're doing is also part of a movement that's just unconsciously happening at the same time, which is beautiful and wonderful, because like um it is very necessary, and it's not like there's not like a million trans people in theater already. Yeah, it's just that we get we get what we get in theater. Um, and instead of having a situation like a I think that one of the things that I love about transness and art and especially transness in theater is um you have by having a trans experience add a layer to whatever character you play.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Like there's always there's always uh if if you do trans casting correctly, it can be really meaningful. It changes the layers of the themes and it creates something that is new and fresh, and people are always trying to add some sort of contrived new theming to every like musical and play that you've ever seen to be like, oh, this is new, it's new to you now. And like transness, queerness, brownness, fatness adds all these different layers that like are generally like lacking without you having to change the text or the setting.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

Yeah. That's a big one too. It's now we we just love to go like it's this play, but it's the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

Yeah, and I don't give a fuck about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

No. I I I I just I just want either T for T or Butch for Femme Shrek.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

Please, please let me play T for T Shrek.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

T for T Shrek or Butch Femme lesbian Shrek.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:11

I need to be trans girl Shrek now.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

I think you'd really crush.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:17

I one of my I tell I tell I joke with this about Lee all the time. One of my toxic traits is that I think I could be Beetlejuice on stage tonight with no prep.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

As you should, actually. I could do Beetlejuice tonight.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:31

I'm saying, no, same exact, like the gruff ass Beetlejuice voice, but she's just got like sick wig. Instead of pants, she's got a little striped pinstripe skirt. Come on. Are you fucking kidding me? Absolutely. Book it, EQ3.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

No, please, please, please, please, please. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:50

Well, I'm super excited for all that. I have one final question for you. Okay. As as we'll move into our segment, I've prepped you on the segment. Every episode I ask my guests at the end of the podcast, what's something that's wicked underrated to you? Could be a theme, could be a place, could be a thing, piece of media. But like, I know you kind of lightweight used yours earlier.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

Yeah, I mean, I I I still saved the majority of what I had to say about dread till the end, but honestly, I don't know if that's what I want to talk about or not.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

What's so underrated to me? Oh. I think I got it. Okay. Um accountability. That's what it's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

Um, and also nuance. Yeah. Um, but I think um, like uh well, maybe nuance is more what I have something to say about, but accountability is like a big thing for me. I think one of the things that I I'm really annoyed by in theater is people talk a lot about the idea of being like a drama-free zone or like no drama. It's like that's not the fucking point.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

It's it's about like recognizing when there's someone dangerous or causing problems in your community while you're like when you're like fostering a community space.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

And going, no. No. Going, hey, I recognize this behavior in you. Are you willing to take accountability for it? Are you willing to change that? And if they're not, then you need to enforce consequences. And I'm not, I'm not, I I'm very much in the process of like decolonizing my mind in in terms of like abolishing the cop in my brain. You know, that's like a huge thing that people talk about with um like cancel culture, right? This idea that like if you disagree with what someone said or if someone has a harmful opinion, you should dismiss them out of hand and they should go to jail forever. Right. It's like I I don't think that I don't think that just ostracizing someone is the right way to go about things. There are extremes that are within reaches where you should they should be excluded from a community that it is meant to be a safe space. But there is also a like a very important aspect of like having hard conversations with someone about what their behavior means and how it impacts other people without it being immediately a punishment. Right. I think like it's important to call people in instead of out sometimes. Um so yeah, no, that's I that's been on my mind lately. I I have I I have a a lot of uh I feel a lot of f frustration about how the commu like the theater community handles things because generally they are they're afraid of the inconveniences to the process that holding people accountable might yeah, like cause.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:12

Yeah. And and it sucks. Like calling people out for shit does suck. It's hard. No one wants to be. I mean, like, I don't want to say no one, I know some very confrontational people, but like most average people don't want to confront people, especially when it's people close to them or people that they trust. So like it does suck, but that's why it's called a hard conversation. Right. If it was easy, we'd all be fucking doing it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

And I think um I I have some privilege in the fact that I have like really gotten comfortable with having hard conversations. Yes. Like I I just now I'm I'm a very straight talking person in general. Yeah. Like if if someone is saying something or doing something that I can recognize as incorrect, I can just be straight with them about it and be like, well, no, you shouldn't say that. That's not that's not right. That's like, and I think like having hard conversations in small doses is the way to work up to those hard conversations, yeah. To be like, no, actually, because like you know, people get nervous when like strangers approach them and like are like trying to insert themselves in the conversation or be creepy to the people around you and you don't know how to handle it. And I'm always just like, hey man, why don't you just fucking leave? Yeah, just get out of it. Because actually that's okay to say to people. Yeah, largely, especially my experience with with men when they're like being creepy. If you're like, hey, you're being creepy, go somewhere else. Yeah, they're they're freaked out by your directness so much they just go out.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:41

And it turns out if you're just direct about things, a lot of the time people are like, Oh, yeah, you like, yeah, and like obviously there'll, you know, there'll always be fucking people who are weird or confrontational about it, but like that's when we kind of gather the group and we leave, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:58

But yeah, I think we just have it's also too like I hate to be this person, but like the internet, but like I think being able to say whatever we want unprompted behind screens for so long has like genuinely ruined our ability to say things to each other in a normal manner in person.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:18

Like whether it be like people just being too socially anxious to confront someone or say, hey, that's making me uncomfortable, or the opposite route, which is people who are too confident and they come at you fucking sideways over like borderline nothing. Yeah. Because they don't know how to act in public.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:35

And it's like, actually, we could just have a normal conversation, pal.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

Yeah. I don't know. I think I mean I wouldn't say that the internet has no influence on the way that we interact with each other now, because that is certainly not the case, but I think that as long as there have been humans, there have been people who are too confident about things professional. And I think that there have always been people who have been too afraid to confront. I think that there's there's a um I think that people are taught to interact with each other a certain way.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

Um, and it's trained like through family and through like, you know, school and like all these institutions that we travel through in our lives.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:13

And I think that like, you know, the internet has become its own kind of institution that we travel through. But it is it is no different in many ways to real life. Like it's just it's a very magnified version of real life. Um, and it does um it does kind of it enhances the the the rot and the filth because there you see what is wrong and that thing gets engaged with more often than the thing that is right. But that is not necessarily that does not necessarily mean that there is more that is wrong than right.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:51

But we just have more access to it, I think. Yeah, now more than ever. Absolutely. I'm hearing people people being mad at someone I've never heard of more in my entire fucking life. Every day I hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:02

You've been privy to the Tyler catastrophe situation.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:05

Oh my god. Listen, dude, okay, listen. Yeah, like my thing is especially I sorry, God forbid a man be trans and fat. I'm saying, okay, first of all, here's the thing. I I part of the way people are acting about this man does worry me that we're entering, like we're re-entering like 2016 cringe compilation eras. Yeah. Listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

Because of course we don't support the fact that he supports a rapist.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:35

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:35

And we and we don't support the fact that he appropriates indigenous culture. No.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:40

We don't support him, but do I need to see another fucking 2.2 times speed edit of him singing a Fallout Boy song? I don't. No. I'm so busy. I don't need it. I'm watching like hour-long think pieces on how like y'all see how this motherfucker's kind of cringy. I don't care. Have you hung out with gay people? We're like that, man. Yeah. We be like that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:06

Just a neurodivergent fat trans man. Can we sit down?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:10

How come you fucking people need to talk to other people?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:13

Literally.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:14

It's listen, yeah, again, there are valid reasons to call him out.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:17

Yeah, but a lot of the content people repost of him is just normal people.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:20

It's never the shit that they should be talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Like, I like literally people repost. I've gotten things on my feed that they're literally just posts that Tyler Catastrophe has made talking about normal stuff. And they're like, oh well, and he's so cringe. I'm like, this is literally just a guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:35

He's just talking, man. It's not that serious.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:39

And it's also like a lot of it, too, is a fat trans man being confident.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Yeah. God forbid.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:46

God forbid.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

I know, because people are like, oh, he's so delusional for thinking he's attractive. It's like, you don't get it.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:53

Like he I'm what he's not my type necessarily, but he's a handsome dude. Like objectively, like he's got a nice face. It's just and you're just fat phobic. Yes. And transphobic. And it's okay to say that.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:05

I think someone's cringe and you don't you don't like the fact that they could love themselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:10

Sorry. To be cringe is to be free, baby. So true. We're living. I had to learn that the hard way. I learned about confidence recently. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. We're on the moon and back.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:23

The things like literally the things that I have been able to do in my life since I stopped telling myself I'm not allowed to want things is insane.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:32

Dude, if you knew. Listen, we'll talk more about this off camera. But if you knew the things that I do at my job and the money I make from it, as a trans woman, especially.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

All because I was like, fuck, I'm gonna go for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

Sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:48

Sky's the limit, baby. And we got there.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:50

But if I was me two years ago and I was just like, everything sucks.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:54

Everything's miserable. It's like some things are good, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:56

No, it's so crazy. That's also something that's so underrated is joy.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:00

Joy?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:00

Let's experience joy, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:03

No dead ass. Hey, it's Pride Month. Let's have some joy. I I just I like it's so, yeah. I I had told myself for such a long time that I was not allowed to have nice things. Yeah. And then I like over time happened to stumble upon many nice things that I could do for myself. And then I was like, oh, actually, it's not so fucking grim. Actually, life can just be good.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:25

Yeah. But it's also like again, too, like it's I commend people who do feel that way because so often people just attack you for liking things.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:35

If you like a thing too much, God they're like, it's not that fucking serious.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:40

It's like it's it's a s it's a tale as old as time.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

Like literally always, but especially since we were kids, there's just like there's so much hatred toward people for getting to enjoy things. Yes. I think there are just so many people who are dead ass miserable. Yes. And they refuse to do anything about it, and they make it your problem.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:00

And that is like that's a real problem.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:03

I'm here to say this right now, definitively. And I'm this I'm the voice for this. Only my opinion matters. You do not need a valid reason to like a thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:15

You do not need to explain to someone why you like it. If it does it for you, then that's all that fucking matters. Absolutely. I don't need to explain to you why I like Power Rangers. Fuck you.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

Why why would you need to it's cool?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:28

The end.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:29

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

They're like they're cool dudes with gimmicks in nice suits.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:34

Maybe fucking kicking and punching each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

Kicking and punching, and that's fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:37

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

Actually, things can just be fun too.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:40

If you want to have a conversation about Power Rangers with me, that's of a concerning nature. Talk about maybe why I should stop buying thousands of dollars worth of vintage toys. Then I'll listen to you. I won't.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

But like it's a different conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:54

I will call that in.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:56

I'll take accountability.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:59

Like if you're just like Power Rangers gay. Good. Good. I love it. What I wanted about what I liked about Ed, didn't you know? Yeah. You've seen the Yellow Ranger from Lightspeed Rescue.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:07

A lot of people liked about the Power Rangers.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:09

Yeah. Yellow Ranger from Lightspeed Rescue? Come on, y'all. I know that's only for me, but that's okay. Google it right now. But yeah, take accountability. There's nuance to things. Call things into your life.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

Yeah. And call other people into conversation about hard things.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:29

And find joy. Actually, it doesn't have to be so fucking grim and dark all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:34

And you know it's a great place to find joy.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

EQ PlayFestival. EQ PlayFestival. Uh EQ2, queer time at Spectrum Stage from June 20th to June June 28th. Um uh Saturdays and Sundays, 7 p.m., Saturdays, 2 p.m., Sundays, uh $15 tickets on Spectrum Stage.org.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:56

All that will be in the description. You can buy tickets in the description of this podcast and go to EQ. I'll be there.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:03

CQerjoy, C Queer Art, C Queer Actors. Um, yeah, it's gonna be really fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:10

Thank you so much for coming on, dude. We did a podcast. We did it. This was so much fun. Thank you. Do you have anything else to plug? Anything, or is EQ your main? That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. I figured that would be the main bag. Yeah. I'll have I'll have your Instagram, EQ's Instagram, and all that stuff, as well as tickets for EQ, Play Festival 2. Yeah. Go there now. Yeah. Um, thank you guys so much for joining. Thank you for listening. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:31

Let's also make sure that we um credit and acknowledge how awesome Spectrum Stage is. Um, the leadership over at Spectrum Stage are fantastic people. Um, Noah and Sunny and Sarah are fantastic folks. Um, they are so supportive and they've been so great hosting us over there. Um, and they're gonna continue to do queer art um with or without us. Yes. Yes, but with us.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

Thank you so much, Spectrum Stage. We love you. I'm so excited to go. I'm so excited to watch. Um yeah, thank you guys for listening. I appreciate it. Subscribe, go in the description, find all those things. Uh, and as always, thanks for stopping by.