Confessing Addictions, Interracial Marriage, and Growing Up COGIC w/ nobigdyl Artwork

Grown-Up Church Kids

Grown-Up Church Kids is a podcast for anyone who grew up in church and is still figuring out what to do with it.

Hosted by Dwan Hill and Shama Mrema, the show blends honest conversation, humor, music, and storytelling as they unpack faith, culture, and the realities of growing up in and around the church. From choir stands to church politics, from deep belief to hard questions, nothing is off limits.

It’s real, it’s reflective, and it’s for anyone who’s ever asked:

What do I keep, what do I let go of, and where is God in all of it now?

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Grown-Up Church Kids

Confessing Addictions, Interracial Marriage, and Growing Up COGIC w/ nobigdyl

April 12, 2026 • Dwan Hill • Season 1 • Episode 2

0:00 | 1:29:14

In Episode 2 of Grown-Up Church Kids, Dwan Hill and Shama Mrema sit down with hip hop artist nobigdyl to talk about confessing sexual addictions, interracial marriage, and growing up COGIC.

If you grew up in church, this episode will feel familiar and maybe a little too real.

ABOUT THE SHOW:

Grown Up Church Kids is more than a show, it’s a full-circle moment where Sunday Morning Meets Real Life. Bringing together community, conversations, shared stories, and songs that shaped a generation, this is a space for Grown-Up Church Kids to reconnect with their roots, redefine their journeys, and celebrate the faith together.

There are more of us than you think.

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CREDITS:

Director & Editor: Kyle Whittaker

Producer: Hannah Gifford (Open Hand Management)

Production Assistants: Sarah Bush, Abby Loomis

Audio: Garrett Miller, Aaron Rochotte

Video: Seth Scruggs

Video, Photo & Social: Jordan Rubino

Management: Annie Cunningham

#grownupchurchkids #dwanhill #shamamrema #frannicash #thechoirroom #faithjourney #churchkid

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I didn't want to have a girlfriend going to college. So I drove to my girlfriend's house and I bought a woman's devotional body. And I walk in the house like, hey, what's up? He's like, hey. I was like, I don't think this is gonna work out. And I said, but in case you want to pray about this later, here's your mind, bro. That is one of the craziest things. Isn't that terrible? But my question is, you all are married to white women. I just want to point that out. Flip this, start there, start it right there. Yeah. How do you get there from Kojik and Tanzania? People come up to mixed couples with just with strange expectations. Yeah. She's white. Like you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 0:44

Yeah, I think I think that's the how can I work this out for my uh my kids and my church kids, everybody, where Sunday morning meets real life, and there are more of us church kids than you think.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

I got my suit on today because I'm at church. I'm in Nashville, Tennessee, at Mount Zion, and man, this is the kind of church I grew up in. The smell of the pews, the color of this carpet, the sound of music reminds me of how I grew up. And I grew up in a Pentecostal church. My grandfather on one side was Pentecostal, my grandfather on the other side was Baptist. I don't know how I survived that, but I did. And maybe you grew up in church, a Presbyterian or Catholic, a Methodist. I don't know, but I feel like we have a lot in common because we all grew up in something like this. And that's what this show is about. It's kind of a combination of Tiny Desk and the Tonight Show, where there's music, there's comedy, uh, there's stories, all about growing up in church. And I don't know if you're still in church, you're on your way out of church, or on your way back in, but this is where we all have a safe place to talk about what church is. And I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here to spend some time with us. It's gonna be a fun time. It's gonna be a beautiful time exploring our stories together. We're gonna jump right in uh in the pastor study. Let's go. Well, we got an awesome, awesome show for you today. Um it's gonna be a lot of fun. We have a special guest that you're gonna love. Make sure you check that out. But we have a couple church announcements before we go any further. You know you gotta get the announcements in. Oh, yeah. Announcement number one, we are having a choir room here in Nashville that's gonna be super fun, our fourth anniversary. And uh think of it like your choir rehearsal. If you love to sing or love to be around singers, you're invited to come hang out at the choir room coming up really soon. The information is below in your description. Also, we are having a live podcast recording here in Nashville as well. So if you're watching this from anywhere around the world, if you want to take a trip to Nashville, come to Nashville for our live recording. Our friends will be there, Shaman will be there, we'll have music and all the things. It'll be really fun. Guys, Duane's iPad's gonna be there. And you know Duane pays $25 a month. I'm still waiting on you, Hoop Trigger, to sponsor this podcast. You need to do it, man. I play your songs everywhere. My my iPad will be there. It'll be a fun, fun time. So um check those out in the description. Remember to like and subscribe and listen to this show wherever you can. Tell your friends, anyone you know that group in church, tell them to get here and check it out. We got some music coming up, conversations, all the things. So glad you're here. Uh, let's have some fun.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Welcome to the video announcements. If you're a first, second, or third time visitor, welcome. If if you visited for a fourth, fifth, sixth time, also welcome. But we really want to prioritize welcoming first, second, or third time visitors. We have a gift for you, but we need you to go to grownupchurchkids.com and fill out a connect card. Once you fill that out, we will give you a gift. Everybody loves gifts, especially free gifts.

SPEAKER_06 4:15

Free stuff!

SPEAKER_05 4:16

Can I hear you say free stuff? Free stuff. I actually cannot really hear you. This is a recording, but I really hope that you participated. Grown Up Church Kids is a community, and we want you to be involved. And we have so many great things going on that we want you to participate in. So please go to the website. I really do mean that. Go to the website, fill out a connect card because we want to get to know you. Thanks for joining us today. Sorry we had to halt the great show to give you this announcement. But we have to do this.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Goodbye. So, one of my favorite things about growing up church kids is having my friends on and having church with us. And we've had some great friends already, but my friend today is one of the best. And he is turning the music industry upside down with things like Holy Smoke Conference, Indie Tribe. He's got new songs out with Holvey, and the list goes on. Um, I want to introduce you to our guest speaker for our 3 p.m. Sunday night service. The one and only. The bishop, the apostle. No big deal. Thank you for the show. Welcome to the show, man. Welcome to the show. We we need like an RB hip hop version of the church. Yeah. I don't know. That made me feel pretty comfortable. Yeah, you know about that.

SPEAKER_05 5:37

Yeah, I do know about that. You know about that, man. Of course, yeah. Okay. Holy Smoke Festival. Holy Smoke Conference should be on the way. That's a different thing.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

That's $999. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's four days at the Hamptons.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Comes with some oil and fresh on the show far. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Gary Visa guest speaker. It's Holy Smoke Fest. That's that's here in Nashville. That's true. Yeah, that's a different thing. That's a different thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

What's been so crazy about meeting friends like you is we're everywhere. Grown-up church kids are everywhere. That's right. And the more people we talk to, we realize how much we have in common. And when we invited you here, we started texting about like You grew up in church. That's right. And most people, maybe when they hear your music, they may think that maybe you didn't. Yeah. But you actually grew up in church. So tell me about growing up in church and what that was like for you.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah. So uh yeah, uh my family was always in church. I moved a lot when I was um young. I lived in nine different states. Okay. Um, but every time we would go to a different state, the first two things my mom was trying to find was the church and the school that me and my brother would be in. So um everywhere I lived, I I was in the church um, you know, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday. Wow. Uh what kind of church was it? All of that. So I grew up in a Kojic church, Church of God in Christ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tried to tell you, bro. Um Wait a minute. Okay. Church of God in Christ. Okay. Convocation in Memphis.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Do you know what Kojik stands for? Church of God in Christ. Oh, he just heard me say it though.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

No, no, I heard doing about that. Okay, okay. I'm sorry. Would you even I knew you were you because you what did you ask for? Say what you asked for when you.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

I said I needed the orange juice with the napkin on it, bro.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

I was wondering where the armor bear was. He's been he's been making fun of me for the past 48 hours about like I've never seen orange juice in V. Yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_08 7:33

That's all they drink.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Yeah. It would come out so cold. So cold. Ice station coming down the glass with something on top.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

No ice, though, but it's it's ice cold, but no ice in it. No ice in it. To this day, I don't know how they got that juice.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

You'd be in the choir stand just thirsty after a song for an hour. And as a kid, you're in the pew, like, man, that way it hit right now. I can't have anything if they got orange juice up there. Oh man. Okay, so here's a But but here, but but before so the thing is it's crazy because I grew I went to two different churches. I went to a Kojic church, which goes without saying a black church. Sure, sure. And then on Wednesdays, I would go to a Southern Baptist church. So white church. Wow. Go to Iwana. Mom wanted me to go to be in Iwana. You know what I wana is? I know you know what I wana is.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

What is awana?

SPEAKER_02 8:24

So I wana to you is the orange juice to him. That was our orange juice. What is it, a drink? No, awana is like a uh kind of like kind of like Christian Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, a little a little bit like you memorized verses, like you had a handbook, you could get badges for some words.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Hannah, what did y'all have?

SPEAKER_00 8:46

We had missionettes and mission.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Okay, so I was a Royal Ranger. See, it's kind of like they're using the aesthetics of boys and girl scouts, but it's not like you do stuff in the woods necessarily. Oh, okay. Royal Rangers, we were out in the woods. Okay, never mind. We were out in the woods. I wanna, maybe I wanna was a little bit watered down Royal Rangers. They were out actually out there. And mostly White Church. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mostly White Church.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Oh and your parents did that on purpose? Why did y'all go to two different kinds of churches?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

So I think over moving like through all the states, like there were some areas that didn't have like, you know, the type of church that my mom and dad were like the ideal church, but it was the church in the city because we were in small towns. And so over time we had gone to some Baptists, we had gone to some full gospel, we had gone Kojick was like the home church, but not every town that we lived in, depending on the region, had it. So that there was one, I think we were in I think we were in either Texas or Kentucky, and we went to like just a regular Baptist church, like a white Baptist church in the small town, and they had a wana, and mom really liked that program. Okay, okay. And so and I got into it, and so she was trying to. Do you still have the badges and trophies and stuff somewhere? I bet my mom has them. Oh man. It was crazy though. I had like the Timothy Award, which was like 360 verses memorized. What? Yeah, it was it was crazy.

unknown 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Come on. You might be a ninja. No, but see, I don't remember any of them now because I was trying to get badges. I wasn't even like, it wasn't a spiritual thing. I was trying to achieve and get badges. You know what I mean? So I was like, and I had a photographic memory, so it's like it's on Wednesday, it's Tuesday night. I'm like, all right, I'm I'm remembering this workmen or you know what I mean. Be not a I'm like memorizing it and then I'm saying it and then it's gone, but I got the badge, bro. But you got you don't got a couple a few of those kicking around still? Maybe. I don't know, bro. Girl, you're a rapper. You have to have a it's it's it's one of those things where like maybe if you started saying the verse, then I would know it, but I it's not like, oh, I could just That's crazy. And even with with like the Bible in general, I'm much more like uh message and concept based than like word for word. Like I'm very much like, you know, what did what was what was the point that was trying to get across in this chapter, in this book? Yeah. Which is actually probably how we should be reading the Bible anyway.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yeah. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

I was trying to get bad.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Come on, bro.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Come on. I'm eight years old. I'm trying to walk out there with just bro, like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

You know what's funny about the UVersion Bible? They ask me all the time, do you love the Bible? Yeah, it's like come on. Y'all get that message? Yeah, I get it on top of the club.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

I'm never gonna click no. I'm in here.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

I'm in it.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

It's smart for them to ask that.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yes. Do you love the Bible? Not do you want to leave a review? Do you love the Bible? I hit no sometimes. I'm like, get that out of here. You know I'm in here. It's like God knows my heart.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

It's like Jesus asking Peter, do you love me? Yes. Of course. Of course I love you. We out here. I watched you die. Leave a review. I know I denied you three times.

SPEAKER_05 12:01

I know I saw a video of a viral video of a pastor who was who was uh showing off his uh a Bible that his dad gave him. That was, I mean, you just I mean, notes on every page. And I thought, man, I think I'm gonna have to pass my kid down my iPad mini. Can I do that?

SPEAKER_03 12:18

So all the games on there.

SPEAKER_05 12:21

Solitaire.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

That's real.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

Yeah, it's gonna have a couple pictures, it's gonna have the Bible app, some highlighted things. I don't know, man. It doesn't hit as hard.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

I really need to move to I need to move to finish. That reminds me of an Uber last week, and I put my suitcase in the trunk of this car, and there's this old Bible sitting there. And I don't like talking to Uber drivers. Like I said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, me neither. I just don't want to have small talk with a person I'll never see again. Yeah. But I got and I was like, man, I feel like I should ask about this Bible. I said, hey man, I saw your Bible back there, and he was like, it was my dad's Bible. I said, my dad passed away not too long ago, and he gave me his Bible. I was like, I kind of want to pass down a Bible to my kids.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, that's actually a good legacy.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

You know what I mean? Like, you don't know what kind of effect that could have. Imagine your name and your Bible, and then all the highlighted scriptures that are affected. Maybe it's like a date beside it, or like, you know, a prayer. Yeah. To your point, man, maybe it's time to bring back a real Bible. That's inspiring. You know, because I feel like my kids, I mean, I would want that for my family. Yeah. I feel like my grandparents had, I mean, the Bible is probably that thick, but it's also your family photo album. Yeah. You know, like the combo? Yeah, yeah. The front half was like marriage photos. And the back half was a Bible. Maybe not that big, but it would it would be cool to pass down something that's like this Bible has been in my spiritual life for a long time.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

I've never talked about this before, but I the Bible that I use a lot, physical Bible that I use a lot is an ESV Bible. That an ex-girlfriend gave me.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Oh. No band hit on that?

SPEAKER_03 13:55

We need some funeral.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

No, no, no, no. Wait, we need some waiting. An ex-girlfriend gave me this Bible. Uh-huh. Continue. It's a good Bible. Okay. Then she dumped me. Uh huh. What was I supposed to do? I can't. It's not the word's supposed to do.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

It's not the word's fault.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

No, man. No, man.

SPEAKER_05 14:16

It's not the word's fault. They're playing playing funeral music is great. You got too much power.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

I'm sorry for your loss. We'll be fair.

SPEAKER_05 14:27

No, I married a great woman.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah. Bro, I gave a Bible to. Should I tell the story?

SPEAKER_05 14:35

It's not the word's fault.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

I was on the other side. I was, we had graduated from high school on my way to college, and I felt like I didn't want to have a girlfriend going to college. So terrible. So I drove to my girlfriend's house and I bought a woman's devotional body. And I and I I walk in the house, like, hey, what's up? He's like, hey. I was like, I don't think this is, I don't think this is gonna work out. And I said, but in case you, in case you want to pray about this later, here's your liar, bro.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

That is one of the craziest things. Isn't that terrible? Isn't that crazy? First of all, I'm breaking up with this. Here's a bite. I want this moment to be connected to the word of God. Well, I knew she was gonna have a hard time. She might have a sad day. I'm like, you can pull out Jeremiah. When you think about me breaking up with you, I want you to associate it with God.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

No, it was Proverbs 30. God is close to the broken hearted. God is close to the broken hearted, and I want you and God to be close. We're through. We are through.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

We not close no more. Bro, guess it. Hey, I don't love you. But I know somebody who does. Any man who does love you.

SPEAKER_05 16:03

Hey, real quick, if somebody's watching this and you're like, man, I don't know how to dump that girl or guy. Yeah. Now you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

I'm giving you the cheat code. Go to Hobby Lobby. Drop off that woman's Joyce Meyer devotional Bible for her to read on her own.

SPEAKER_05 16:21

This is the wildest break of a Bible.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Yeah, yeah, me too, for sure. I wonder if she still has it. No, this is the thing. Oh. Years later, I was on Facebook and she was having a Bible study with the Bibles. Well, then it worked. I'm trying to take it. Then it worked parents laughing.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Then it worked. You know what? Hey, it's the work. God works in mysterious ways, you know? He works all things together. Yeah. For good. For the good of those who for my exit.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah. Okay. We gotta get her to guest on the show. No, we can't. I really hope she doesn't watch this movie. I'm so sorry. I should not have done that to you. Isn't that wild? That's the that's how churchy I was. I thought I was doing such a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Was she equally as churchy? Equally. So okay, it probably didn't hit the same thing. Yeah, yeah. I got you. Y'all were on okay. Like, oh, this makes sense. I get it. We're breaking up. That's my story. I'm sticking to it. Yeah.

unknown 17:16

God.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

You know what broken?

SPEAKER_05 17:18

Brokenhearted.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

I know it just broke your heart.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah. I like the idea of like, I want you to be closer to God.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

And he's closer to the brokenhearted. It's the whole thing. It's the whole thing. I like that. Oh man. Like that. I like to do it.

SPEAKER_05 17:36

Go on. It was cold-blooded. He's nice now.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

This man was cold-blooded. There was no how to break up in your ex-class. I didn't know how to do it. What am I supposed to do? Like, because my reason was terrible. It wasn't like I don't like you. It wasn't like it's not gonna work out. Yeah. I want to be open when I go to college was my own. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

So I do not recommend that process for y'all, but that's how that happened. God worked it out. God worked it out. And I mean I just so Sunshine Band. Yes. I actually met this girl in Sunshine Band. Okay. Did y'all ever have like girlfriends in church? Did y'all like seriously date anybody? I didn't seriously date anybody. No, not really. Okay. I didn't, I mean, I had one serious girlfriend in high school. That's pretty much my only time I was in there. Did you date somebody? Uh I had uh yeah, it was like a situationship thing. Uh okay, I had a couple. I didn't know if we were I didn't know if we were gonna go there. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. Those qualify for in church, you know, you can't really say this person is my girlfriend anyway.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

That that's the thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Not in Pentecostal church. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't. Yeah. But you sit beside them in choir rehearsals.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

And you pass him, you know, yeah, a role at the in the family. Yeah, a role for sure. You wanna share this role? Yeah. And that's how you know. Um, that's interesting. You guys didn't have serious girlfriends. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:54

No, I did I mean, I was a person.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

But who was your ex then? Did you say you had a?

SPEAKER_05 18:57

I had a girl, that was a girl that I I talked to for a little time. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But it was just one of those, you're like, hey, y'all should, yeah, yeah, but it was like, yeah, y'all should, y'all like each other. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, do we? I don't know. She here. She yeah, yeah. We're both here. It's proximity more than anything else.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

I don't know if it's real, but could y'all go to dances, like prom and stuff like that? So on paper, no.

unknown 19:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

On paper, no. So my yeah. Obviously, Kojik is no on all of it. No. Like just no. No bowling, no dancing. No movies, really. No movies, really. Yeah, like just no across the board. Um But my family was always kind of like Yeah, but we're gonna we're gonna kinda do that anyway. Like, for example, like uh she would hate for me to say this, but she's not gonna watch this. So um that's nothing against you. But uh my my grandmother, like, she was like an usher at the at the church. Like, and like they were very, very involved. And like, you know, like you can't wear pants, like especially not as an usher. No, no, no. Yeah, pantyhose, yeah, all the things, yeah. And she would do that most of the time, but sometimes she'd just be like, I'm putting jeans on. Really? But she was so respected in the church that it was just like whatever. So like my family was a little bit like this is a terrible phrase, but like don't ask, don't tell. Like, yeah, we know what but we're kind of just gonna do the thing. That's y'all the Baptist side coming out. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. 100%. That's the Baptist side.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

I love how I'm gonna put jeans on is being interpreted as a rebellious. Which is hilarious, but it was though. No, I understand. My parents, my mom, and my grandmother, my grandmother to this day has never worn pants to this day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mom wears jeans and my aunts wear jeans, my grandmother wouldn't dare. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. But I I kind of honor that, to be honest with you. I feel like it's if you believe that to be what God wants you to do.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Yeah, I don't see any problem with it. Uh, you know, unless it's like when stuff gets tied to people's salvation, that's when it gets. But you know, I mean, there's even even biblically, there's people who take like Nazarite vows, and we don't all have to take Nazirite vows. That's right. That is something that was put on their heart to honor God, and it and it did God actually received it as honor. That's right. But it's not er not everybody's called to that. That's right. So I kind of see the the different stuff in different church traditions. Like and especially a lot of the regardless of what maybe the original doctrinal book says, a lot of the lay people, they're doing it like a Nazirite vow. They're just trying to honor God. They're not saying if you don't do this, like you know what I mean? But so that's that's kind of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

I feel like a lot of times maybe it's when you push it on someone else to do it like you. Right. That's when it becomes. For example, in Koji churches, speaking in tongues is a big thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it wasn't just we speak in tongues, it's like you gotta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're not saved unless you're not. You're not saved unless you're not gonna be able to do that. And I remember countless services where I was just like Yeah. I mean, I prayed the prayer. I think I Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

I'm not speaking in tongues. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

That's a whole I mean, did you feel that pressure? 100%. I mean, it got to the point in our church where like the kids, like, they would just mimic it. You know what I mean? Like a freestyle? Yeah, they're freestyling in tongues, bro. Like, you know what I mean? Uh and when you're really young, it's like a joke. And then when you actually get scared of hell, like everybody's just trying to conjure it up. You know what I mean? And I think that it is a very real gift, but I do not think that it is the only marker of having the Holy Spirit. And if you don't speak in tongues, then you're not saved. Like there's so many people with a heart for Jesus. Like their whole life is evidence of that, but they haven't spoken in tongues, and it doesn't mean that God has rejected them.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

You know. So look at look at Kojik.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Look at Kojik. I agree with you, man. Yeah. I agree. And I think it's really cool. I mean that's kind of what this show is about. It's like what you learn as a kid may not necessarily shape out to be the exact same thing that you believe as an adult. Yeah. Not that not because you necessarily have left the faith. Some people have. And people have their own stories and journeys. But sometimes it's just like it's reshaped to be more nuanced. Yeah. And more, I don't want to say personal, because that feels like my truth. I'm not saying that. I'm saying personal. Like I've actually walked through life.

SPEAKER_08 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

I've wrestled with scripture. I've wrestled with the church. And here's where I land on how I want to raise my family. Right, right. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you guys have had as grown-ups that you're like, man, they taught me this as a kid, but now I'm a little I'm not I'm not exactly that like like in that zone anymore. I think speaking in tongues is a good example. Yeah, that was that that was like a big one for me. Um I would just I one of mine is just you gotta be at church every day. Like even every Sunday. Yeah. I mean, we would go on vacation and we would find another Kojak church in the area before we did not go to church. And again, beautiful, beautiful. I love, I love that we did that. But I don't feel that pressure now as an adult if I would take my kids on vacation that I have to find a specific denominational church to go that Sunday. Um anything else?

SPEAKER_05 24:20

I did a lot of like belief things dude. I feel like I and I've talked through a lot of it with my mom and my dad before he passed too. Like, why did we do that? You know, I think we were, there was a lot of stuff that we did. I mean, just a lot of the beliefs that we had, like the way you dress, the way you talk. Like, my I remember my mom asked me a lot growing up, hey, if if if Jesus came back right now, based on how you act, would you go to heaven?

SPEAKER_06 24:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:46

And I remember, dude, I'm telling my mom recently, I'm like, you know, I went my whole child most of my childhood being like terrified of the rapture and being terrified of like the last return. When it's actually like a fun thing to look forward to, but I equated it to, okay, yeah, so I got mad over there, and then I yelled at my sister, then I punched my brother. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, so I gotta repent. I gotta then I repent. So I spent a lot of times just walk into my room and just repent. Like, in case you come back this afternoon and try to come with you, right. Take everybody. But I think stuff like that, I think I had a a very fear-based, which I think there is, we need to fear the Lord. I just had a fear-based walk with Jesus. Yeah. Where God was, you know, thunderbolt in his hand, strike me down whenever. Yeah. And then I I I think that that's something I'm like, I don't want to. But also I was I had an African dad. That's how I was raised. Like, you know, every consec every disobedience has a consequence. Yeah. And God's not like that. It just took me a long time to kind of learn, like, God, God doesn't operate like that.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's hard to reconcile, like, perfect love casts out fear when you're when you're like constantly in that, like, what is the last thing that I said? You know, or, you know, will basic basically what we're saying is will Jesus remove his grace from me because of the last thing that I did or said. And it's a, it's, I think that it is, in a way, it's a it's a cheapening of Christ's work. Like the scope and totality of his finished work, that it could be um thwarted by a kid yelling at his sister. You know what I mean? That's canceled. That's not a that's that's not a God worth following. That's not a very good gospel. That's not a very good gospel if the blood of Jesus can be nullified by you yelling at your sister. Like, um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:43

I will say though, I mean, that's something that you have most recently experienced is becoming a father.

SPEAKER_07 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:51

I mean, I thought the moment I had a a son, our son first, and be like, yeah, I I under I understand it now. Yeah. If the if I'm if he is our father, the way I love my son, my kids, and want to parent them and want the best for them, and want to discipline them, not out of this place. I want to I'm disciplining you because I love you. Right. It's not because I hate your guts and I you did something wrong. It's like, but even knowing when to you know, to talk and to dis even that delicate balance of it all is just something that I'm like, oh, I appreciate my dad, my mom even more now. And I appreciate God even more because I understand that uh like a micro version of that relationship. That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah, I feel that too. Your your oldest kid is a son. Yep. Your oldest kid is a son.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

My only kid, yeah. Your only kid, congrats.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And my oldest kid is a son. So we all have firstborn sons here. Yeah. Um I I'm thinking about this more now that I'm trying to raise my son in a house that believes in Jesus. How kind of like the Bible we're talking about, and about, you know, I don't want to set him up to have bad ideas about God. That's right. And I have found myself changing my discipline of him based on that perspective when I really want to do something else. Like, for example, he was arguing with his his sister the other day, and neither one of them wants to take a shower, so they're arguing about who got who gets to go first for like 15 minutes. And I walk in, I say, hey guys, you guys you gotta figure this out. If I come back in here and you haven't figured this out, there'll be consequences. And so I walk out and I'm by the door, waiting in the listening out, listening to conversations like, I had it yesterday. No, you had it today. No, we gotta and just going back, and I I was not, I was sad for a couple reasons. One, they didn't listen to what I said, but two, they were fractured. Yeah. So I feel like there's another level of sin. It's where God his heart breaks when we don't treat each other very well. Yeah. When it's a very simple, all you have to do is go get a shower. They could have been done with the shower by the time they were. And I was like, man, outside the door, I was like, man, I feel like God may be thinking it would be easier for y'all to get along than to spend all this time arguing. Anyway, I walk back in and I was like, because you all did not figure this out, there'll be consequences tomorrow. So they went to bed, and I don't know if that's the best thing to send your kids to bed without the consequences. They might have nightmares about what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

You gotta let it marinate.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

I like I feel like you kind of need to think about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

This is kind of what you did. But the next day, I felt different. I was like, I feel like they understand that that was a bad decision. And I think a consequence right now will feel more legalistic than actually. I mean, I could tell in their faces, they're like, Daddy, we should not have done that. And I was like, you know what, you're right. And daddy's not gonna punish you this time. So I'm not gonna con give you consequence, but y'all need to, y'all need to get along. So to your point, I think there is something there about what parenting does to us when we realize God is not trying to trip us up. Yeah, he's not. He's not trying to trick us into be like, I got you, now you're going to hell. I don't think I don't think that's and if if you sense that from a church or a pastor, I don't know. I would question us to think.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

I I couldn't agree with you more, man. Like, yeah, and I mean, we feel like that about our children. Like, my son is not on thin ice with me. I'm not waiting to uh uh like abandon him or cast him out. Like my love has been it's a yes for him. You know what I mean? Now he could he could reject me and leave and say, I don't want anything to do with my father and move to Europe and block me and I could never hear from him again. But I'm not taking my love away from him because of his behavior, right? And the scripture says compared to God's love, we're evil fathers. Wow. In comparison to God's love, our love that we're talking about right now is evil. So how much more then is God's love laid down as a yes for us? Praise God. Like when we when we are a fraction of the relationship between us and God is all on us. It's the prodigal son. It's uh give me my inheritance, I'm out of here. You know, it's not from him. And he's there with the fat and calf, with the rings, with the it says while he while the while he was still afar off, he came out. Yes, sir. You know what I mean? So um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Well, delay on the band. We're gonna tighten that up and post two.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were joking earlier that they go to a Baptist church, they're on a smoke break. Oh, yeah, they're gonna be able to do that. Right, right, right, right, right. They thought they had 10 more minutes come in. That is awesome. Yeah. And so true. Yeah. Um, I'm curious, um, when did your faith go from my mom church to I actually believe in Jesus?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

That was that was college for me. It was uh around, yeah, it was uh right between 17 and 18. Um kind of a series of events kicked off. Uh so my parents kept moving with my dad's job, but they waited till I graduated high school. Okay. And then I went to MTSU, and they moved to Arkansas and then eventually Arizona. Okay. And so it was kind of the same effect as if I went out of state for school. Okay. So now I'm I'm out of the house, I'm by myself, you know, I'm a young adult, and now I can kind of make my own decisions, like, you know, do I actually want to go to church every Sunday, like of my own volition? Do I want to actually there's no concept, my parents won't know what's going on, essentially, you know. And so I was wrestling with that because I identified as a Christian for sure, but a lot of it was how I was raised and just it kind of all went in the bucket of like respecting my family and and the family name and being a good person. Like Christianity was similar to, you know, just staying out of trouble and getting good grades and all that. It wasn't this like thriving relationship with Jesus Christ, you know. Um, and so I I kind of had to wrestle with that. And it was like, no, I think I'm gonna go to church. Most of my friends are here, but during the week, I'm kind of I'm just gonna kind of do whatever I want. You know, I had this like facade of this like Christian guy, but you know, I was doing whatever I wanted as far as like relations, romantic relationships and and hanging out and whatever. Um, and I heard a sermon on James 219 that says, You believe there is one God, you do well, even the demons believe and shudder. And the you do well is like a little sarcastic thing that James is doing, which I think is very fire that James uses sarcasm in in the scripture. There's a lot there. But um he's saying, Okay, that's great, like that you can um say that, yeah, I believe that there is one God. Um, you have this intellectual um understanding that there is a God, but the demons have that intellectual understanding too. And they go a step further, they shudder at God. And then in the sermon, he illuminates different places in the scripture where when Jesus comes into contact with somebody who is under like demonic possession, um, the demons always respond to Jesus with fear and a recognition of his authority and his sonship. Like they call him the son of God, they say, Have you come to destroy us before the time? Like, and he tells them to be quiet, he casts them out, whatever he but they're not confused about. You could say their eschatology is good, because they say, Have you come to destroy me before the time? They know that he's the son of God. Like, so those intellectual understandings don't separate us from the demons, is what I took from that sermon. So that kind of like uh upended my understanding because I I was just like, I mean, yeah, I just believe that there's Jesus, you know, I believe in Jesus, I believe in God. Um, but the demons do not have a relationship with Jesus as their savior and their Lord and as their um their brother and their friend and their redeemer and their messiah. Um they are not following him. Wow, man. They're not living their life with him. Um and so that was something I had to wrestle with, you know, and it wasn't it definitely wasn't immediate. It wasn't like I I thought I I thought it was immediate, like I heard that sermon's like, okay, I'm I'm getting I'm just gonna try to do everything right so that God loves me, you know. Um but it was for me, it was definitely a process of like trying to do that and then falling down, trying to do that and falling down, and um the way that it finally um clicked for me was I was holding on to that facade of being like a good Christian guy in my community. Everybody, even now, if you ask me for the time, I'm like, oh, he was he was a great guy. But I was doing all this dirt secretly, and I didn't want to confess it. Uh I will I mean I would confess it to God, so I'll never do it again, but and then do it again. But I didn't want to confess to people because I had this idolatry of my image. And that was the thing that I was holding on to and that I was worshiping more than God. Wow. And so that was the thing that he was like, that's the thing you have to give up. I know that you've confessed this to me, but the thing is, until the way for you to reject that idolatry is for you to tell this to the to the body. Wow. You know what I mean? And so I I had to I I had I had stuff that I thought I was gonna take to the grave because I was like a serial cheater, like sexual addiction, all type of stuff. Stuff I was like, I'm not telling anybody this. And I I had to I confessed that those things. Um and that was when that's when it really became real for me. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

So uh that's crazy. Who did you trust enough to confess that to? Yeah, this so this is anybody's name. I'm just curious, like what situation caused you to be like, I'll tell that person.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

For sure. This is a whole nother podcast. I'm not gonna lie, but I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep it like where it's not three hours.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

So we got this a five-hour service.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah, yeah. If you get juice, we can get you some juice. This is the point in the sermon, like uh at the church I was growing up where he would say, I'm almost done. Which means three more hours. Three more hours. I'm almost done. I'm coming to a close. I'm saying, yeah, I'm coming to a close. I'm gonna say that, yeah, I'm gonna say this and sit down. Yeah. No, so it was uh it was actually my wife. It was my wife that I confessed to, and this was in our in our like a year and a half, a year, well, a year and a couple months into our marriage. So it's like the the person that is the most scary to confess like sexual sin to and infidelity to, which it was against her, you know what I mean? Like, um Wow, this this is who God wanted me to confess to, which is why for so long I was like, Crazy, man. I don't wanna do that. Like, can I just confess to you? I've I've stopped the behavior at this point. Do I have to bring that back up? You know what I mean? And he he was like, Yeah, because it is an idol. That is the thing that's gonna hold you back from this from this fullness of relationship. And so it was definitely like the hardest day of my life to confess as you guys can imagine, like to confess that um to my wife, confess multiple affairs, like you know, and sexual. After you were married? Yeah, it I mean it was like it was before and after. Wow. It was be it was, I mean, it's like a long-term like uh sexual addiction since like 14. Wow. You know what I mean? Like a long-term thing and trying to cover cover it up, trying to stop it, all these things. Um, the whole sin cycle that keeps you in shame, you know, the whole thing. Um and then yeah, it and into my marriage, like the first few months, like maybe the first three or four months. And then it was like, no, I I really can't do this anymore. I would just rather die than continue this type thing. And so I remember that was a thought I had at the time. And so I really did stop between that like four months and confession, which would be like 15 months or something like that. Um and during that time I was trying to bargain with God, like, okay, do you I really have stopped this time.

unknown 40:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Do I actually have to take this step? Wow. You know what I mean? Wow. Do I actually have to take this step? And I'm getting, I'm on the internet. You can find anything you want on the internet. I'm on the internet looking. How many times? Uh should I no, just should I confess. Should I confess? And on the internet, you know, it's it's Christian saying. Right. No, like you're the reason that's just gonna bring her pain. Right. And the reason you want to confess is like relief. You this is just something you have to deal with. Yeah. You know what I mean? You've already confessed to God, that type of thing. Almost like it's selfish for you to do that. It's selfish for you to do that because you know, and but God's like, He's like, I know you read that, but you know that that's not true. Like, you know what I want you to do. I'm praying to him, like, if this is something that you want me to do, then just don't give me any rest. I'm meaning it like spiritually. And when I prayed that, I couldn't sleep after that. Like and so that not like 4 a.m. I'm like tired but can't sleep. And I'm like, okay, this next, like the next day I'm going to do this. Like, and so it was it, it was a and that was another reason that's like a really big part of my story because it wasn't a situation where I was caught or I was like there was pressure or anything, like it was just me and God. And so that was I've now I view that as his kindness, like him revealing to me like his real presence, because nobody had told me to do that. I was actually people were telling me I didn't have to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it was just me and him, it was just his presence. Um and that was that was the hardest day, and it was it was uh it was very rough. Um the community that we had at the time fumbled. It is what it is, like it is what it is. Like yeah, it was uh you were asking like who who did you trust to tell that like that part, and I won't spend too much time on that, but it just uh suffice to say, like we needed help. We were super young, we were 22, you know, this is 11 years ago. Um we know we need help, we can't handle this, so we go to the church, and it just was completely uh mishandled. Um and so now we're now we don't have a community, you know, and God brings us to the community that we we're now with, that we've been for like 11 years. And they, I mean, it was like night and day. It was incredible how they well, it felt like the prodigal son, like the way that they well welcomed us in um and didn't sweep it under the rug at all. Like head on, like helped walk with us through this, um, but didn't meet us with condemnation and with shame, but with we're all broken, we all are in need of a savior, we all have our own stories, and here are people who have walked through similar things and can help you, like couples who can help you guys walk through this, and that's exactly what they did. Um so yeah, that was that was like the yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

That is incredible, yeah. That's great. I mean, I'm thinking of there are probably people who have a similar story of going to their church in a time of need and having the reception be a fumble. Um but for you, you and your wife to say we're gonna try another church is a leap of faith, man. I've I I don't know if everyone has made that leap because they've maybe written off church because one church fumbled. Yeah. How did y'all I mean, what motivated you to keep church as an option? Right, right. And a time where your marriage was like on I'm sure on the Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

We were we we needed so much help, but um Yeah, that's a great question. Um and you know, it's it's God really does work in mysterious ways and nothing is black and white. In the same way that that uh church community fumbled that situation, it also is that church community that taught us the important the importance of the body of Christ and how even if uh you're hurt by uh uh some part of the body of Christ, that's not a reflection on Christ. Like that's the same place that we learned that. Wow, you know, that that Jesus is perfect and his people are not. And so if uh if some wrong is done to you within the church, that means that they deviated from Christ's uh example and his perfection, not that Christ is now imperfect. Wow, you know what I'm saying? And so, you know, it's part of that is I think is the Lord keeping us humble enough to recognize that um just because we've been hurt doesn't mean that Christ's plan Christ's only plan for the redemption of the world, which is his church, his body, is now off the table. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 45:17

Um when you're hurting though, you can make that argument pretty you can convince yourself that that argument is true. That's right. That that the church is should be thrown out. Yeah, but kudos to you guys for taking from the church a truth that you needed while separating bro, that's like that's adult stuff.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Yeah, well, it's it's the Holy Spirit. Yeah, it is it it is the the Holy Spirit. And um Yeah, yeah, I mean it's and I mean uh honestly it's it's it's also just being honest. That's how life is. Like, yeah, and and when you can accept that, then I feel like uh it's easier not to hold on to to bitterness and black and white thinking and and um and to heal relationships and everything because we know like my pastor now he always says we like to think of ourselves as dynamic and everybody else as static. So it's like where you know, uh, you know, I did something that doesn't align with my character a week ago. Yeah, and then if somebody holds me to that now, I'm like, bro, I uh I made a mistake, that's not who I am. Yeah, yeah. But everybody else, I want them to be the sum of their worst moments. Wow. And I I don't want to do that to that church because again, like that's where I I I learned so much about God in that church. You know what I'm saying? And so um That's really well said, man.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Yeah. So it's yeah, it's just especially in the culture we live in right now, with with so many Christian leaders and artists and pastors, seemingly it feels like everybody's got something going on.

SPEAKER_06 46:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

But the truth is they do. Right, right, right. Like they're you said they're Jesus is perfect, his church is not.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

And so to expect all of these people to have perfect lives and to worship them as such would be would be short-sighted. But to look at the church as a dynamic organization full of people who are full of the spirit, but also full of other stuff too, sometimes.

SPEAKER_06 47:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Um I'm just really encouraged that you were able to make that by the help of the spirit, you're able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

And the scripture, because I mean in scripture, there's one perfect person, and it's Jesus. Even people we're tempted to think of as just incredible and great, like Paul. You know, we probably can't think of anything that Paul did wrong, but yet Paul says he was the chief of sinners. Right, right. You know what I mean? It the script like the the scriptures, if you take it seriously, it's like, okay, well, people are imperfect. We're all sinners. That's why we need the Messiah.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

Wow, so I love the the the concept of us being dynamic and other being static, because especially now when we live in such a polarized time, it's uh it's so easy to be like, oh, that person because this person believes A, B, C, and D, then I'm gonna lump them into this group, and then you put all these static people in this group, and you put these static people in this group, and then you don't think anything else apart from the fact that they just live and breathe this one thought or whatever. Yeah. And then it's even harder, I think, because all of these groups are still professing Christ. Right. You know? So then you're like, well, wait a second, I'm better than all them. I need to be think the way I think and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I'll connect this to your music because my guess is that you haven't always been supported by the church in the music that you're doing. Yes. Specifically from Kojik. In fact, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Because if I was doing gospel, like gospel, gospel. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

They would they would they would hoist you up on the uh steeple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um Not rap, bro. Not rap, not man. So so talk about how that journey has been in liking and supporting, and now even bringing other artists into your you're you're now a really like a thought leader, like a you're not just doing music, you're you're you're elevating the genre to be something in a space like we're in a jam, for example, where you're like, this is a legitimate genre alongside all the other things. So so talk about that, how that journey has gone.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Yeah, the the start, like you said, like actually from both denominations, uh like Kojik, as you know, like gospel music, that's pretty much it. Like that's that's and and also and also I just have to say that the Kojik denomination, like, as far as gospel music goes, like they run that. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

I'm sorry, I'm I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Like who owes Kojik? Like Clark sisters, bro, like Kimberrell. Yeah, bro. They run you for saying that. But people need to know. But I also didn't even just mean like front. I'm talking about the musicians. Oh, yeah. Like if you like the drummers, the bass, like guitar, like keys, like, bro. Tough. Insane. And just self-taught, like just taught in the church. And these small churches, like 50 people in there, and the organist is like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

Is this guitar center shred? What's going on? Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Like just uh crazy, crazy. But um, yeah, so I will say I do want to send a shout out to Bryce Temple, Shelbyville, because again, very cogic, but I they were more open-minded than most Kojic because so there was Sunshine Band, and then this is funny. I don't think I've ever talked about this just because it hasn't really come up, but like I started a thing at that church called BT Pride. So it was Bright Bright's Temple Pride, and it was kids, and we were, and this is very not coaching. I'm actually, I'm like, actually, you guys were definitely like pretty ahead of your time. But it was kids, and maybe they just didn't know, but we were remixing rap songs and making them like churchy. They didn't know. Yeah, they probably just didn't know. I'm thinking about it now, like as an adult, as a kid, I'm just like, oh, but as an adult, I'm like, they probably just didn't know the kudos. My mom knew. Okay. But maybe she was just like, Yeah, yeah. You don't say anything. I don't say anything. But uh yeah, we were yeah, we were taking like whatever rap songs, like 50 Cent, like whatever it was, Nelly, and we were changing the lyrics and like kind of we were working with uh uh one of the musicians' named was Pedro. He was cool, he was like a big brother to all of us and like would kind of let us get away, and he would like kind of arrange the music a lot. Oh, cool. And uh and so yeah, so we were doing that at the church. Um so they were, they they definitely were like rap was out, but they that was where I kind of cut my teeth on musical stuff. And then the Southern Baptist Church, though, which I started I started going more there like towards the end of high school because a lot of my friends were at that church. Okay. So I I still went to both churches, but I I would spend more time at that church than I did than I had when I was younger.

SPEAKER_06 52:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

And uh the yeah, they were not with it. They were not with rap at all. Like said that I I really shouldn't be doing it at all. Um you like, hey, you know this is not drugs, right? Yeah, it's yeah, no, I I mean I I was, but I'm a teenager and these are like the elders of the church, so it's like kind of like you know what I mean. Um so I I actually didn't I didn't have like come like growing up, I didn't have a lot of support from the church for um hip-hop. It was all from my family. It was all my uncle is a very, very accomplished like Grammy Award-winning drummer, and he's who introduced me to Christian hip-hop. He gave me like um cross-movement CD when I was super young, and then he gave me a Lecrae CD, and he would take me to shows and stuff, and I grew up going to he was a jazz or is a like jazz drummer. And so I would go to like his jazz shows, and there'd be spoken word poets there. So the f the way that I got into like lyricism at all was actually from spoken word poetry. And that was a way the church did accept that. We did accept spoken. Spoken word.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

So why did we like spoken word and not rap? Like it's hip-hop without the So that was the loophole that I was like loophole is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

That was I was like, well, I'm why. Well, this is why I say it's a loophole. This is why I say it's a loophole. Because they were rap verses, but I was saying, and I was just doing them a cappella and saying, oh, we're doing spoken word. You know what I mean? And so I actually I got a lot of support from the church on the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was a spoken word artist. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Did you not want to go, okay, guys? Okay, so we have this, and then we have the music. If I add the music to this, y'all still not with it?

SPEAKER_06 54:04

They're like, but ah! Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:05

But without the music, you're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

I don't even think they would even it's so crazy. I have never thought about how they would literally be like, that's all right, baby, do it, dude. I mean, so supportive of Easter speeches, speaking of words, like anything that if it rhyme, bro, in a church. Yeah. They just thought, but not hip hop. Not hip hop.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

That's true. And I I I will say that I man, I have a whole like I I wrote my honors thesis on Christian hip hop at MTSU. So I have like a whole thing on this. But is that can people check that out somewhere or read it? I mean, it's It's at the library. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could find it for sure, but it would it was it was called uh Holy Versus how hip hop or holy versus how Christians use hip hop as evangelism.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

So it is, I mean, I am technically a published author because you have to be published to do that. But um That's great. But yeah, I will say I think it's two different things for the for the white church and for the black church. For the black church, I have a lot of empathy for pushback towards hip-hop because black churches historically are embedded in actual black communities and they are hubs of safety and outreach and care for the black community in general, generosity for the black community in general, and they were eyewitnesses to see how drugs and gangs affected the community and the soundtrack to from their perspective for for drug epidemics and for gang warfare was hip-hop music. So I think it's a wound that and they just apply it to all of it. So I don't think it's I don't think it's like they're I don't because it's just different in in in different communities. I don't think they're on the like, oh you know, 808's like that's a demonic frequency, which that people believe that. Sure. I don't think that's where the black church is on the whole. I think it's more like that's music that leads to this. Yeah. So I have a I have more of a soft spot for that. That is true. But there are people who are like just the 808, the frequencies itself, demonic. Demonic. Which is like, all right, bro, like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Anyways, back to Harry Potter. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 56:18

Star Wars. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, all right, come on now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why are you gonna call them? Yeah, they were picking and choosing. They were picking and choosing.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

They weren't picking and choosing because I even bro, I I was in a church who was like no to Harry Potter, yes to Star Wars. And I'm like, guys, you you got nothing, right? Wow.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

Like there's you have no basis for this at all. Wow. I mean, historically as well, Amazing Grace was a bar melody started as a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. So it's crazy how that stuff is not nothing of it is new. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

But we're I mean, gospel music is a combination. I mean, if you go to its essence, it's it is a combination of Negro spirituals, but also blues music and jazz music.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

And modern is gonna have funk in it and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. CCM is rock music.

SPEAKER_03 57:07

CCM is is is 70s uh songwriter out in California. I mean, all the percent. We are we are in the world but not of it. But we are so tempted to slice and dice things to make ourselves feel like we're holy when I don't think God is as uptight about it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

No, I I I mean, what is the content? What is the purpose? Does it align with God's character? Yeah, sorry. Is it good to his people? Does it glorify him? That's right. Like these are the questions we should ask, not what sound frequency is the kick drama. You know what I mean? Like, I agree with you, man. I agree with you. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 57:44

There's also been I I don't think people understand those things run parallel. There's somebody's trying to advance. Hey, somebody hey, I just wrote Amazing Grace. And then other people are like, yes, it's a bar song. I read uh a book called Outrageous, and they were talking about the history of comedy and comedians and how for every the uh it's everything's come a long way, like in terms of censorship and even the ratings and all that. But yeah, there was somebody who did something, and people are like, that's horrible, it's gonna corrupt American youth, and da-da-da-da-da-da. And then we move everybody moved on from that. So every generation has somebody who's pushing boundaries, and then people who hate the fact that there's somebody else is pushing boundaries. But guess what? There's not a war over that. But I mean, every everything still advances. So it's it's wild that this is you're talking about what you're talking about is 10 years ago, 10, 15 years ago. Yeah. And look at where we are right now. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Now it's celebrated on big stages. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:38

Huge stages.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Yeah. Yeah. And I would yeah, even Kojik now I feel like accepts Christian hip hop. You know? Yeah. I have a lot of friends who came from that church and planted other churches or whatever, and they're like super supportive right now. So they use it as ministry now.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

Yeah. You want to build a uh YPWW. You remember that? Yeah. Of course. Which is young people, willing workers. We love acronyms in Kojik. Yeah. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, I yeah. KOJIC. We love acronyms and COJIC. We will turn a whole sentence into an acronym. Yeah. But they would use hip-hop and rap now as a as a way to get people to.

SPEAKER_05 59:14

I think it's also one of those things, man, it's just undeniable right now. Like no big no, you are one of my favorite performers. Thank you, bro. I've seen live. And so it's like, what are we even talking about? I don't think this is a conversation anymore in terms of like there's nothing that's less than. Like I've seen you at Smoke Fest. I've seen you at we did a conference last January together in I think a Gatlinburg. It's incredible. Like some people are like, who is this rapper coming? And I was like, hey, he's no big deal. You need to watch his performance. And if you can't, you need to watch his sound check. And people, everybody at that I told you at that time, they came up to me, like, dude, he was really good. I'm like, I don't know what y'all expected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like when you booked a rapper, did you just think, oh, this is for the students? Like it goes beyond that. A lot of people do. Yeah. But no, it's cool, man. It's been so cool to like keep up with you. Even the song that y'all did loved with the choir list. Man, that was special.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:04

We get so much feedback about that video and that we got to be at TSU, which is the first time the choir room has gone to a historically black university. This is a beautiful and um beautiful night. Yeah, I was just so grateful that you came to do that because there are people who come to the choir room from other parts of the city who have never been at TSU and have never listened to rap and hip-hop music, that that song in particular would they were able to resonate with the message of it and not be offended by the the genre. Yeah. And for a choir from people, you know, white ladies 60 years old to Hispanic girls, 16 years old, to black guys at TSU. I mean, your music has brought a lot of people together. And it's been an influential, um, kind of uh, I don't know, I feel it's like a potluck to me. It's like it's just like bring your dish, man. Like bring your dish and let's have a good time. Um so thank you for doing that. By the way, if y'all haven't checked it out, Quiet Room has a a song out called Loved with Exclamation Point, uh featuring No Big Deal. Um it's out everywhere. Thank you for doing that with us. Yeah. I have one more question.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Yes, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

If we got time, one more question. I'm coming to my second question. I don't, no, I'm just taking a look. I have to ask this because both of you all, as far as I know, are not married to you're not married to a black woman.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:18

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

Okay. My brother-in-law is not married to a black woman. She's white, bro. She's very white. I'm just curious. Tanzania Church, Memphis Kojik. Well, I I was I was raised here. I was I was just talking about convocation. We used to go to convocation. By the way, I'm G. Patterson Kojik. Okay, okay. Yeah, you are. I grew up in Memphis. I went to the pyramid. Okay. I was there at 6 a.m. Yeah. To hear G. Patterson. And if if you know, you know. No idea what they just said. It's okay. Yeah, if you know, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

Kojik. Bishop Manor and Bishop Manor, yeah, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

So we're brothers. Um But my question is, you all are married to white women. I just I just want to point that out. Clip this, start there, start it right there. Yeah. Because I mean, if people did not know that, now they know. Yeah. I just I'm just curious, how do you get there from Kojik and Tanzania? For sure. How do you get there?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Yeah. So for you want me to go first? Go ahead. Okay. So for me, the most of the context of where I lived, the school that I went to, the neighborhood that I lived in was white. I was surrounded by white people. My dad's job, he worked uh for uh Walmart Distribution Centers on the logistics side. And like I said, we moved to nine different states and and multiple we moved like 15 times, but nine different states, right? Wow. And it's rural areas because they have to have enough room to build the distribution centers. So I'm in these, which I mentioned a little bit earlier, I'm in these small towns. Like remember some towns didn't even have like a Kojik church. They it was just a white Baptist church, as it is. So these are very small towns. Um and so I was just around white people, was just who I was around. But my family was very um or is very like black and proud. Like mom was like, we mom would be running black history programs at all of these schools, like this this is so it's it's more true than you guys think. For example, when we when we were we lived in Bell Buckle, Tennessee, which is i uh the name alone, like it's a white show. Sure. You know what I mean? Beltbuckle? Bell buckle. Bell buckle, okay which of course, of course you thought belt buckle, because why would it be Bell Buckle? It's right there. But we thought a lot of people we lived in Bell Buckle, obviously, very predominantly white. The school is like, you know, whatever it is, 90% white. But mom's up there, there was no black history program. She's doing a black history program. She brings the Fisk Jubilee singers to War Trace, technically. War trace to perform. This I mean, I'm in elementary school, isn't it? Like to perform at elementary school for Black History Month, they stay at our house. There's pictures of me jumping on the trampoline with the Fisk Jubilee singers. So the so my world was just really wild. I was most crazy. People that I would interface with in a day were white, but my family was very proud of our heritage, and we were very into the educational aspect of it. Um, and mom, mom, and and dad and grandparents, everybody wanted to be at a Kojic church. Okay. So almost all of the black people that I interacted with was at church. All my black friends were at church. That's how I interacted with them. They were in another, that's a whole nother town. That's not even where I live, but we would drive. Right. Because they wanted to be at the Kojik church. So for me, it was just uh I I think people make it about more than than what it is. It's like who you're around is who you're around. You know what I mean? And you when you fall in love with somebody, you have to be around them. You know what I mean? And then when you fall in love with somebody, that's all that it is. Like there's not much, I don't feel like there's much to consider. Like, you know what I mean? So I think there, you know, there's a perception that like there's a lot of things that are um this is not even what you asked, but I'm gonna go here. There's a lot of things that are uh kind of um like weird about or can be weird about how people think about and present and present interracial marriages, especially in this moment on social media, right? There is a lot of fetishization of black men right now, like, or of, oh, I'm in an interracial relationship, whatever. Brown kids. Brown kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:43

Right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

This is not that. That's not what happened. I was around my friend Chelsea, we fell in love and and we got married. That's it. And that's why I said she's I said she's very white because um it wasn't a thing. Like where she was like, I'm trying to get a black dude. I saw Kim Kardashians with the rapper. Like it wasn't that. It was like, bro, we were friends and we fell in love. That's cool. And she is who she is and I am, who I am. That's cool. But yeah, that's that that is a because yeah, if you didn't know and you hear this whole story, you're like Yeah. Yeah. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:20

What is what is something that is funny or hilarious about you all being married that you know is funny and hilarious because you're black and she's white?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

You answer the one I just answered while I think of it. Okay. While I think of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:37

Uh first of all, I wasn't like a gr an incredible ladies man. Starting there. I think for people were like, man, why'd you end up with a white girl? It's like, hey man, girls were turning me down. I was trying. So races. All races. Latinas. Blacks. Guys, I'm here. Ladies, I'm here. So uh I think I had up until uh I met Grace, now my now wife, you know, I had this understanding. Like so funny. I was like a bad gambler. Well I was like, let me ask just you know, let me keep pulling the lever until I win something. So it wasn't that. I met a friend that I worked with said, uh which a lot of people tried to set me up. So I had people at church, because I was a I was a good Christian guy and volunteered at my church. So there were a lot of ladies This is how I knew I was extra single and bad at dating, was I had a lot of ladies who were like, God's got someone special for you. Ladies were saying that yeah. God's got something special. And even my friends, uh my friends, the girlfriends would go like, Man, you need to or my friends one of my friend, uh his fiance or his wife was like, uh we'd hang out together. Me and my friend David would hang out. He married Christina. And we'd I'd still yeah, it was the third wheel in this marriage. Yay. And finally Christina was like, Man, I can't wait till you have a wife to get out of our own. So we can hang out, I can hang out with your wife, you can talk to David. And so um Yeah, so that was that was my situation. Then a friend at uh at work was like, Hey, I have a here, you need to meet Grace. And he told Grace, hey, you need to meet Shamma. And so uh which come to find out, my friend who, Mason, who set me and my wife up, he did that. I was part of a trade, like a Russia-U.S. prisoner exchange. Oh wow. He was like, Grace, I'm gonna introduce you to Shamba, but I need you to introduce me to your friend. Wow. So uh so that was so I was in the building, bro. It was a trade deal. Pre-trade Shaman.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:36

If you We met at a bridge in the night.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:40

It was it was real, uh, bags over your hands, handcuffed. Mason pushed me and I walked, I walked past the foggy. No. Yeah. Um he said, yeah, you need to meet Grace. And so um, I was like, Well, what did she do? He was like, uh, she was a music major, went to school with me, and uh and I talked to Grace, and she was a librarian, she worked a library at a Christian school. And so all the off the top, I just were like, What? Hey, we'll just talk, you know. I'm doing uh yeah, you're beautiful. She was very beautiful. He sent me a picture of her, he sent her a picture of me, and uh, and we met, and we just hit it off. It clicked. Yeah. Uh and uh I think we it clicked, but I still had the mindset because I had uh, you know, I'd I look I had a girl gave me a Bible and dumped me. Not as recent as you were dumping people. But um but I just had this understanding of like, yeah, we'll just see what happens. And uh and I think I was at work one time and I was telling your friend, I was like, Yeah, I don't know about you know, I'm dating this girl, I don't know. My friend was like, Do you love her? A friend of mine, buddy Zach, was like, Do you love her? I'd be like, I do. I was like, Yeah, okay, well then stop what whatever is going on here. If you love her, pursue her. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

So that's my story. It wasn't it wasn't even like, yeah, she's white. Like you know, yeah, I think I think that's the how can I work this out for my uh my kids and uh Yeah, oh but I I have to say I hate that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:03

I hate like talk. Uh you know, people used to say, because we we can't we were both in a rural situation, so there's a lot of like racism and and stuff, and people people would almost say it as a consolation, like the only thing good they could think of was like, oh well your babies will be like really beautiful. And it's like they're gonna be beautiful because they're babies. From two human beings, just like every other baby, but they're not we're this is not like a superior genetics like thing. You know what I mean? Like, hey, do you think that you think that I want that? You think I'm trying to make a master race, bro? That's not even my bag. That's not, you know, that's not what we do. You know what I'm saying? I'm working on republican Obama.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Yeah, like that's kind of gender. But people do, I mean, yeah, we laugh, but that's like an actual.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

What Republican Obama? No, no, no. I don't know about that. You know, people are raised a kid, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:55

But I'm just saying, like, people come up to mixed couples with just with strange expectations. Yeah. And it's just it just shows you that we as the human race are not yet caught up to the way God sees us. That's right. We just don't see people the way we should see us.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:10

And that puts that also Man, that's setting I feel like that's setting up the next generation for failure in a couple ways. One, when you do the oh, mixed babies are so beautiful and they're ideal, like you're sowing like seeds of superiority. It's like, bro, we are guys, we already did this story. Yes. Like you're showing seeds of superiority into the mixed children. Yes. And you're also communicating to the black children and the white children to an extent that you guys are less than that like, guys, we already ran this play and it and it and it didn't work. Like, why are we doing this again? Like, my kids are the same, like, it's the same, bro. They're beautiful because they're made in the image of God. Yeah. And be and and they're babies. Yeah. You know, that's it. And their babies are crazy. Yeah. It's like, oh, well, of course like your babies are gonna be beautiful. They're babies.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:02

Yeah, that's the worst is hey, y'all make cute kids. I'm like, hey, dude, are you don't are we scientists in a lab? Yeah, yeah. Why do you even know? Um Yeah, I don't like it. If you know anybody who's married, regardless of their skin color or where they're from, like, they're in a mixed marriage.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:18

Marriage at this point is wild.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:21

I think everybody some lady and some guy, I heard of a pastor explaining, like, it's two histories colliding together. That's a crazy mix. Unless you were neighbors and your friends were your parents were friends and you knew each other. Maybe you have some similarities, but with your wife and we're I mean you're talking about your wife and casserole's whatever. Like every marriage has your, you know, I think the the skin color and culture, uh, that's a little different in our house, and in your house. But it's like, I think every house has like this collision of like ideas and products and experiences like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:55

We're more than our skin color.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:56

So even more than black and white is like North and South, or Tanzanian versus South Carolina, or you know, Pentecostal versus Baptist. I mean, every person comes into a marriage with a history, and no one is purebred anyway. No one comes with the superior thing that is tainted. I think I think racism racism has really um become an evil that we just have to stand against. Yeah. And um along with all the other things, I'm not trying to put racism on a on a pedestal, but I'm just saying in this conversation, I think there are seeds of racism in our hearts that we need to be diligent to uproot when we look at couples like y'all's beautiful family, and we don't think our first all is praise God for a beautiful family. Right, right, right. We think down the line with that can be. Um I'm I'm my wife and I we're both light-scan African Americans, whatever that is. Um but we are very different cultures. She grew up Church of Christ, no music all day. I grew up in a hostel, Oregon, music all day. She grew up casserole. I grew up she was in a pie, you know what I'm saying? And it's not because we're black or not black, it's because we come from different families. And uh I just hope people uh recognize that that's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:07

Yeah, yeah, people think. I think that like I think that our differences should be accelerated because that is how that's how God creates. Like, even if you take humans out of it, like the universe, like ecosystems, like animals, like there's like whatever it is, like a thousand different types of just beetle. Just just beetles. And so there God in in his perfection, he really likes things to not be the same. Right, wow. And he calls for the body to be uh unified but not uniform. Yes, sir. Right? And so I think it's like we should we should it sounds cliche, but like really from that perspective, we should celebrate um that we are not the same and be unified unified uh in our differences. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:58

You know what I mean? I would say that applies to music too. Yeah, exactly. If if you come up in a church tradition that says there's only one way to worship God through this kind of music, I think that's a sign that you've forgotten that our God actually revels and delights in a diverse expression of worship.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:17

Every tongue in every nation. Like for some reason that brings more glory to him than if we were one tongue in one nation. Yes. You know? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:24

And I think also there's a there are some families that might grow up similar to how you grow up, where the fist singers at your house. Yeah. You know, your mom is leading the charge on black history, black history mother, and all those things. And I think most people assume that, hey, if you're in a in a uh interracial marriage, like you're also trying to, hey, you gotta instill the culture and da-da-da-da in your in your household. And it's like, buddy, I'm trying to get my kids to obey. Drink them out. I'm trying to get them to drink their milk, clear the table when they're done. Right. Black culture and white, all that thing, the color of their skin, any type of that, that stuff can wait. That's that's a part of it. But uh there's a friend of ours, a family friend of ours, his name is Mark, and him and him and his wife, he's from Kenya, and his wife is very white and from uh, I think Virgin Virginia. And uh so Mark has a thick Kenyan accent, and so we were talking at our house, and and one of the questions is like, you know, because we're East African, how much of the culture do you want to instill in your kids? How much of the cult the language do you want your kids to speak Swahili? How much uh East African food do you cook at your house? How much East African clothes do you tailor and wear? Um and and Mark said just over dinner with a bunch of my friends. He just said, Man, at the end of the day, I just want to be understood. And I thought, man, that's not what I want to be too, regardless of how you I want I want my kids to understand my faith and my beliefs and my value systems and and and everything else. And and I think that part is that's the trickiest part about being a husband and a parent is just like trying to be under to understand, I'll even add to understand and to be understood as well in that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:01

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:01

Yeah, yeah, man. That's something I think about a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:04

I thought of the answer to your question, a funny thing. Oh, yeah, what's that? You guys know who Tim Hawkins is? Oh, yeah, yeah. I know you do. He's a he's a comedian, like a Christian comedian, a white Christian comedian, right? Um okay, so when we first got married, there was like, because we grew up so differently, uh, there was like this moment where we're we're showing each other stuff from our different families, stuff we grew up on, shows, music, whatever. We're trying to like. Um and there was so we were showing each other like comedians that we grew up with. And she showed me Tim Hawkins. Her entry to this was gonna be Tim Hawkins. Okay, we're gonna watch some Tim Hawkins stuff. And mine was Dave Chappelle. I I'm thinking Tim Hawkins is like just a white comedian that I don't know of. Sure. And so I'm like, okay, cool, Tim, Tim, cool, we're gonna do this. So I'm like, I'm gonna show her Chappelle show. I have the whole series.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:59

It's not a one-for-one if you're not familiar with either of them. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

So I'm like, let's do it. So I put on Dave Chappelle, and I hadn't seen it since I was younger, right? But in my head, it's hilarious. And we're watching it. It's one of those things where like, you know, it's one of those things where you you're listening to music and you love it, and then your mom is in the car and you're like, she only hears the worst stuff. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, Chappelle, this is gonna be a great bonding moment. And I'm like, oh yeah. He did kind of go wild on this, right? Yeah, yeah. But I'm like, oh, it's okay, we're showing each other comedy, and she goes second, and then she shows me Tim Hawkins, and I'm like, this is a Christian comedian. And I just showed her like I thought you meant we were gonna be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just showed her like mad real world, like the Rick James kid, like all this crazy stuff, and she's showing me a joke about veggie tails. Oh, so unequally yoked is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:50

Medically.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:54

This is a little bit different. Yeah. Wow. That's really funny. That's crazy, man. Well we've been playing this fun game with our friends that we used to call Bible Bowl. I don't know if they called what they called it in your church.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:05

I learned Sword Twills, really.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

We had a friend on that called it um draw your sword, which sounds very violent to me. I don't understand why they was anyway.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:17

That's the only weapon I keep on.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:18

So I'm gonna hand you the King James version.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:21

Okay. All right. Is it 1611 or just I think he's about to clock? He's about to clock. Nah, I'm no I'm not. I'm about to get cooked.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:31

We requested new Bibles so that way it was fair. So the pages might be a little sticky together. You know, so nobody has an advantage.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

Yeah. There's no bookmarks. You can't like find the place where you've been reading all day long. This is brand new. There's only been three K-like issues. And uh, you know, I just I just love that we have King James Version. We didn't we didn't believe in ESV, NIV. Yeah. It was KJV for B.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:57

That's how uh our pastor spoke, like in normal conversation.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:02

He's talking about some thou shalt.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:03

Yeah, yeah. He spoke in King James Version just regularly.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:07

Okay, but do you remember the first time you picked up a Bible that was like ESV or something else? You were like, hey, this makes a little more sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:12

Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, what were we doing? For sure. Why are we making this so difficult? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:18

I didn't go as far as like the message. The message was like Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

Now you got a little casual. A little too casual. Yeah, now you're making stuff up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:26

Now you just do stuff because the sound both the coaching and the Southern Baptist Church were like KJV heavy. So like even the new King James version to me felt like the ESV. I was like, oh wow, I can read this. I can read this.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:40

I know saying what's your daily driver though? What you doing? What you rocking with? I'm rocking ESV these days. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What are you doing? I think I do New King James. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:49

Ooh. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:50

We do a lot of audio Bibles. So the audio Bibles that I roll with. Okay. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:55

I bounced between the ESV and the CSB.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:58

CSB. Tell me Christian Standard?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

Yes, Christian Standard Bible.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:01

Okay. Yeah. Cool. Do you ever read the Amplified Bible? Yes. That's where we went to after King James. I was going to say because it was so many words. I think we just like to read a lot of words. Yeah. We don't need that many words.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:14

It did kind of clarify some stuff though. Amplify.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:17

I feel like the Amplified kind of clarified some stuff. I'd be laughing though, because it'd be like, and Jesus walked down the street, parentheses. Street means road. It's like I didn't really need that information. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:29

You don't have to amplify everything. My mom gave me this Bible. She had bought this Bible. I'm not going to say the name of the pastor who cut this out. But it was almost it was like a like a quick read Bible. So it had your regular verses, you know, verses or whatever, but then they had it bolden, like some of the words were in bold that you could read and almost like it was almost like a summary, like you could read and get the context without reading all the words. But the Bible had a ton of typos. A ton of And my mom marked the typos in the as she went through it. And then when she was tired of the typos, she gave it to me. Oh no. So huge shout out to Rod Parsley for the thing. You said you weren't going to do it. The Bible wasn't saying. They're shipping a Bible out with typos.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:21

Especially when you're like, oh, this is a way that you can like summarize it easier if you're in the team.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

I think that deserves an answer. They're gonna bleed me out. No, no, no, no. No, we gotta hold people to count onto the word of God. And that's why people just wanted to get away from King James in the first place. Stick with the word. I don't care if you can understand it. Oh my gosh. Okay. Let's play this game. All right. So Hannah's gonna give us a scripture, gonna give us an address, a uh book, chapter, verse, and we I found out at the last episode you gotta hold it like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:51

Oh, alright. Hold it up. We're going along the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:53

It makes it so that you can't start unfairly. She's gonna read and then count to three, and then we have to find it. She's gonna tell us the verse, and then we count to three. Yeah, okay. All right. So say it, count to three, and then open your Bible. Yeah, we're ready. Okay. Uh sword drill, round one.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:11

Okay, you're looking for James 1, 5 in one, two, three.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:22

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God to give it to all men liberally. Alright, bro. And upbreadeth not. And it shall not be given him. And it shot, man, but it sh and it shall be given him. You would not have been chosen. Unbraideth not. Well, I this is this is the this is crazy, King James. I've never even read this word before. Unbraideth not, and it shall be given him. What does that even mean? That's a good question. Unbraideth.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:50

First of all, that was ridiculous, bro.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:53

That would have to be like five seconds. Anybody clock that man? Well, we'll put the timer on like can we put the timer on the screen? Like this. Hey man, shake that out, bro.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:00

You got to look brand new Bible.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:05

That might have been the fastest you've ever done. Guys, I'm not here to play. This guy's hustling, bro. I'm good with the score, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:11

If you didn't raise us, right, man. What's your call? Pentecostal. Boy Scouts, what's it called? Royal Rangers. You can play. Royal Rangers. We had Sunshine Band. Sunshine Bands.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:21

Sunshine Band, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:23

They didn't teach us like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:24

Nah, they were out in the woods with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:26

They were out in the woods with it. Okay. We can reduce coaching, boys. We can do it. We can do it. Round two. Sword drill. Wait, sword of the spirit. Yes. Game. Round two.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Okay, you're looking for Isaiah 55, 12, and one, two, three.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:52

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:53

For ye shall go out with joy and be led forth with peace. I was right. The mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing. And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

It was right there, man. I was right there. I was at Isaiah 52. I was three chapters away. You were right there. Bro, what are you? What is the secret, man? Moving fast, guys, guys. I know it. I keep that sword up here. Wow. This is just an extension. Yeah, but we got to get one on the board. We got one more round. One on the board. Kojic boys, you got to do it. He can't sweep. He can't sweep us, man. If he does, then we might need to change. This is wild because I'm a clown.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:32

People watching this will be like, wait a second. Your respect is up to the street.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:35

Yeah, your stock's about to go up, bro. They're about to start reconsidering everything. He might know the Lord. He might be safe. Okay. Um, keep your sword out, round three.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

You're looking for Nahum 17 on one, two, three.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

The Lord is good.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:07

Got it. Be kind. The Lord is good. And um uh wait, I can't read. The Lord is good. A stronghold in the day of trouble, and he knoweth them that trust in him.

unknown 1:26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:25

Come on, man. Come on. All right, we got one. We got one. We got one. Because we're a team. We're a team. I seriously am on his team. I feel like he knows all the things. Hey, man, congrats. Thank you, man. Thank you. That was that was pretty good. That was really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:39

So you still, you're still like on the physical Bible. Because that's the thing. What do you want an audio Bible? It's crazy. Because I I like I know it's like Joan and I can name him a bad. Like I know where it is. Yes, yes. But I'm like, dang, I haven't.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:55

I think the new Bible is throwing everybody off. Yesterday for the first time, we were like, uh.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:00

Yeah, yeah. But still, bro, I imagine if you had like your Bible, you would have been like, Yeah.

unknown 1:27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:08

Congratulations. Bro, this is I mean, I literally could do this all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say we have to do it again. I haven't asked, I want to hear about Sunshine Band. I mean, we got so much to talk about. But thank you for spending time with us today. Of course. My pleasure. Um I hope people have learned something about you that they didn't know. Oh, yeah. And that they go check out your music, which we'll, of course, we'll link for everybody to get. Um, but you can't come without doing some music with us. Let's do it. If you don't mind doing it, let's do it. Um, so make sure you check out this song we're about to do. I think we're gonna do Rob Hill, I believe. Amazing. Which is crazy. Church it up. Church It Up. Okay. Coaching style, man. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Thanks for being here, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, thank y'all for watching Growing Up Church Kids. This episode this episode was great, man. We just could not stop talking to our new friend, no big deal. I mean, coaching kids. He knew about my orange shoes. He knew about it. Very grateful for. Um, thank y'all for hanging out with us. Um If you did again didn't get a chance to watch uh Rob Hell, which is this uh kind of tiny desk version of No Big Deal song, make sure you check that video out. Uh make sure you check out our other episodes, the Growing Up Church Kids. Our friends are coming through and they're singing great, they're talking great, reminding us of that we have a great history, a great shared experience in growing up in church. Um check out choirisback.com to be a part of the church choir. Uh our live broadcast recording is coming up very soon. Uh like and subscribe, y'all. Do all the things. Um thank you for joining us today. Shama, thank you for being here. Always. And uh hope you come back for the next one. Hit us with our benediction, Pastor. That's right, that's right. We all gotta do our benediction. Thank you for deacon for reminding me. Oh, you're welcome, bishop. Hey, our benediction, you repeat after me. It's like a call and response. Um, I say, God is good. All the time. And all the time.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:50

God is good.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:51

And I say repeat after me. You didn't have to repeat after me. You know what to say. I'm the deacon. But y'all know how to do it. I'm gonna do it one more time. This time say it with some spirit, like you know the Lord and you really got the Holy Ghost. God is good. All the time. And all the time. God is good. All right, love y'all. See you next time. Go with God.