DOE Palmer: No Disney, No Dating, New Baby, and a Grammy Artwork

Grown-Up Church Kids

Grown-Up Church Kids is a podcast for anyone who grew up in church and is still figuring out what to do with it.

Hosted by Dwan Hill and Shama Mrema, the show blends honest conversation, humor, music, and storytelling as they unpack faith, culture, and the realities of growing up in and around the church. From choir stands to church politics, from deep belief to hard questions, nothing is off limits.

It’s real, it’s reflective, and it’s for anyone who’s ever asked:

What do I keep, what do I let go of, and where is God in all of it now?

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Grown-Up Church Kids

DOE Palmer: No Disney, No Dating, New Baby, and a Grammy

May 10, 2026 • Dwan Hill

0:00 | 1:19:44

Grammy-winning Christian artist DOE joins Grown Up Church Kids for a hilarious and honest conversation about growing up in church, and the rules a lot of church kids remember: no kissing, no Disney, no scary movies, no dating, and sometimes… no pants. From Pentecostal holiness culture and COGIC roots to Pokémon panic, purity culture, R-rated movies, dating, parenting, and spiritual conviction, this episode asks what protection was, what was fear, and what still matters now.

DOE also shares how her bilingual church upbringing shaped her worship, how her family prayer times formed her songwriting, and what motherhood is teaching her about raising kids without trying to fix herself through them. If you grew up in church and are still sorting through the beauty, the baggage, and the funny rules that shaped you, this one is for you.

ABOUT THE SHOW:

Grown Up Church Kids is more than a show, it’s a full-circle moment where Sunday Morning Meets Real Life. Bringing together community, conversations, shared stories, and songs that shaped a generation, this is a space for Grown-Up Church Kids to reconnect with their roots, redefine their journeys, and celebrate the faith together.

There are more of us than you think.

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00:00 No Power Rangers in Church

01:29 Welcome to Grown Up Church Kids

02:21 Movies Church Kids Couldn’t Watch

08:58 Meet DOE

10:28 DOE’s COGIC Roots

14:32 Growing Up in a Bilingual Church

20:16 Multicultural Worship & Israel Houghton

25:57 Bible Games & Sword Drills

31:44 DOE on R-Rated Movies

32:45 “Demon in My Pocket”

35:37 Parenting, Pokémon & Conviction

39:31 Aladdin, Genies & Spiritual Sensitivity

42:47 Christian Content We Can Trust

45:53 Scary Movies & Fear

50:03 Dating as a Church Kid

53:50 Purity Culture and Marriage

59:09 The Testimony of Protection

1:04:47 Church Kids at House Parties

1:08:52 DOE’s Musical Influences

1:13:02 Songs Born in Prayer

1:14:19 Meet Baby Shiloh

1:15:44 Parenting Without Projecting

1:18:48 Final Thoughts & Songs

More from The Choir Room

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thechoirroom

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.choirroom/?hl=en

Website: https://www.choirisback.com/

CREDITS:

Director & Editor: Kyle Whittaker

Producer: Hannah Gifford (Open Hand Management)

Production Assistants: Sarah Bush, Abby Loomis

Audio: Garrett Miller, Aaron Rochotte

Video: Seth Scruggs

Video, Photo & Social: Jordan Rubino

Management: Annie Cunningham

#grownupchurchkids #dwanhill #shamamrema #doe #thechoirroom #faithjourney #churchkid

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Is Relinda here?

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hi, Shiloh.

SPEAKER_06 0:05

Please come all the way up here. You can go to mom first. You can go to mom first. Hello.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

The little man. Hi. We were just asking about you.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

The microphone? Can you say?

SPEAKER_04 0:16

He's looking at me.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Oh god. He's like, what am I doing up here? We weren't allowed to watch Power Rangers. Morphing into a what?

SPEAKER_06 0:23

The devil is a liar. Okay, I'm in the same place.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

We don't morph. I forgot morph.

SPEAKER_06 0:30

Is it because power was in the title? We're transformed by Brenewing of our mind.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

But I'm gonna say a name, and you guys are gonna know what show I'm talking about. Are you ready? Okay. Demon in my pocket.

unknown 0:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

That was in my spirit just now.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

You know why that didn't scare me? Because that's what I was hearing happening in my that's what they did. Preach the message about Demon in my pocket. And you got these spirits.

SPEAKER_06 1:37

My name is Duane. I get to host a show with my friend Shama, who is, I mean, we just become good friends over this time, man. We didn't really know each other before this, but we went to Waffle House one time. Before we were friends, we went to Waffle House. It's a good time. Since then, man, we've been just all friendships. Good friendships launch at Waffle House. Bacon, waffles, and uh maybe a questionable item on your plate that you don't you don't know how it got.

SPEAKER_07 2:03

We went to Waffle House while the sun was up, which is that's a rare thing people do. And it's a 10 a.m.

SPEAKER_06 2:10

Bro, we have the same shoes on. Yeah, we got Adidas's on. We did not plan that. Sponsored by Adidas. Sponsored by Adidas. Yes, please. This episode has been sponsored by our friends over at Adidas. Um, hey, I want to ask you about something uh about growing up because most people who are watching this show grew up with music and they grew up with potlucks and food, but we also grew up with movies. Yes. Like movies that some of us were able to watch and some of us were not able to watch. Right. My first question for you were you able to watch rated PG 13 movies? Absolutely not. We couldn't do that. Absolutely not. Yeah, what about PG?

SPEAKER_07 2:45

Uh my dad had to vet it. He vetted everything. This is how bad my dad was at vetting. Like my brother brought home, he borrowed a VHS of the Lion King from a friend at school and brought it home. And and my dad was like, we not that Disney, he saw the Disney logo and he just knew that the this was, dude, it's like 1997 or something. And he was like, We're not watching that in this house.

SPEAKER_06 3:09

I will be honest, when they started with um the henya and the henya, I I remember our church being like, wait a minute, we don't we don't know what they're saying. We we rebuke any type of demonic.

SPEAKER_07 3:21

But also, I remember telling that like this is the this is African. We're African. Yeah, black. This movie's for us, and we couldn't watch it. Like we did he held on to it, and my brother had to return it. Yes, yeah, we could watch Disney movies for years. How old were you when you first watched The Lion King? Uh, I think we had to watch it like a friend's house. That's crazy, man. And we were also like, turn it down, don't tell, don't tell. Wow. Yeah, yeah. A kudamatada can do none of that. I mean, yeah, we we that's the thing. I we watched The Lion King, but we couldn't sing it at home. That would reveal that we had sinned. Now our parents were strictly like what were your parents like?

SPEAKER_06 4:02

I mean, definitely no rated R. Definitely no PG 13. I mean, if if they vetted it, we could get to PG. Okay. But I remember stuff like Home Alone was like. I mean, Home Alone, by the way, we went back and watched that with my kids. I don't know if I'm gonna let my kids violent movie. I mean, and what, Buzz? He's got eyelids, he's kind of got a dirty mouth, man. Yeah. I'm just saying, I for some reason, first of all, I don't know how my parents let me watch. Like the first 15 minutes is all I'm talking about. After that, it's family friendly. But the first 15 minutes, the kids are fighting. Yes. Macaulay Culkin's talking back to his mom. Right. She's talking bad to him. Buzz is like parents and all that. It's kind of crazy. Um, but movies like that, my parents were like, mmm, it's Christmas time.

SPEAKER_07 4:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:47

You can watch it. Were your parents watch like did they enjoy movies? They did, yeah, but we weren't, we didn't really go to the movies that much. Okay. But they were like Yeah, I mean, Disney was okay, home alone stuff was cool. Um yeah, PGG, definitely nothing rated R. What's crazy though? Do you remember like Martin, TV show Martin? Yes. Could not watch Martin, but we could watch Living Single. The picking and choosing that parents were doing back in the day was wild. Martin would come on and we could not watch that. But Living Single, which is basically Martin, we could totally watch Living Single.

SPEAKER_07 5:26

It's Martin with a female cast. My parents had this rule. It was my dad, really. Which is uh if if people kissed on TV, the TV had to go off. There's no kissing. That was it. That was trash. No kissing. Yeah, turn the TV.

SPEAKER_06 5:43

I feel that though. I feel that though. I mean, I wouldn't want my kids watching like a.

SPEAKER_07 5:46

I mean, as that I thought that was weird when I was a kid. Now it feels now. I got the I keep that Apple TV remote on me. I'm skipp 30 seconds ahead. What happened? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what happened. Maybe it's the the internet. No kissing.

SPEAKER_06 5:58

What about like The Simpsons? What about like um Beavis and Butthead? Like these are things I never got to do that stuff, man.

SPEAKER_07 6:09

We didn't have we had cable maybe for like a year or two growing up, but a lot of a lot of times, man, we we could watch the Tigger movie on VHS. Uh we had a couple of adventures in Odyssey movies.

SPEAKER_06 6:21

Yeah. Uh Veggie Tales. I was about to say Veggie Tales, like the Christian stuff your parents were good on. Right. I also think this is a black people thing. Because I feel like my wife friends were watching Beavis and Butthead and go for youth group. I feel like they were watching this. They were quoting it.

SPEAKER_07 6:33

I remember like, no, please. And I had no context.

SPEAKER_06 6:37

Now being a parent, I I get it. Right. I get it. And um, it's something that you just can't expose your kids to something too early. No. Especially kissing, bro. Kissing and cussing. Kissing and cussing. You know what's wild is I'm still not cool with PDA to this day.

SPEAKER_07 6:52

At all. No. You was your wife? No, no. I'm like. You've never kissed your wife in public? I mean, I I have. I will. But at the same time, she's like, I'm like, you know, I'm not. Is she does she? I don't want my I don't want my mom to see this. You may kiss the bride. I was like, ah, come on. My mom is. Come on, Pastor. My mom is here. She's gonna turn off this wedding. Does she like PDA? No, no. I never saw my parents kiss. I think that's like, I don't know. I think it's an African thing.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

I don't think my parents did a lot of kissing.

SPEAKER_07 7:23

Like, not in front of you.

SPEAKER_06 7:24

Not in front of you. Yeah. That might be like a 90s generation thing, man. Maybe. Maybe. I see modern-day parents going at it. Dude, yeah. Stroller right here. Like guys. Going in. Guys.

SPEAKER_07 7:36

Get a house or an apartment or something.

SPEAKER_06 7:39

But yeah. Interesting. Okay. We got some fun stuff coming up. I want you to know that uh what we do here at Grown Up Church Kids is we laugh, obviously. Uh, we talk about things that are beautiful and hard about growing up in church, and then we usually sing some songs. And I want to make sure that you know that we have a whole playlist of songs from guests that have been on our show. Um, they're singing some of their songs, they're singing some classic songs from their background. They're grown up in church. And so make sure you check out that playlist. Um, and uh, I think you really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_07 8:12

Thanks for watching Grown Up Church Kids. I hate to interrupt the show, but I have announcements. That's right, we have to do announcements here, and we can't pass out bulletins. So we have to you have to turn your attention to the screen. I'm assuming you only have one screen. But if you're a first, second, or third time visitor, thank you. Welcome. We have a free gift for you. Also, if you've been here more than that, we still have a free gift for you. Go to grownupchurchkids.com, sign up. We want to send you something. Everybody loves free stuff. Can I hear you say free stuff? I'm just kidding, I can't hear you. It's a video, but we know you love free stuff, so go to grownupchurchkids.com so we can give you something. I I wish I had more announcements. I love taking up your time, but let's get back to the episode.

SPEAKER_06 8:57

All right, I am really excited to have a guest speaker. Y'all know back in the day, especially in the day this person grew up in church, like we would have an anniversary or church service in the afternoon with like some extra food, with the guest speaker had extra parking space. We had special drink. It wasn't shakudy for board either. It was like chicken and mac and cheese. We got a guest speaker that understands all that, grew up in church, has been singing for years. You probably have heard her voice uh with her family, or more recently, she's been doing some solo work. She's also a Grammy Award-winning artist. I'm also a big fan of her husband. Y'all, I want you to put those hands together and give it up for our friend Doe.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

What's up, Doe?

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Hey guys, Doe Palmer.

SPEAKER_06 9:45

Doe Palmer, you're married. You're married. How long have you been married?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Oh my God. I have been married for two and a half years, I think. Amazing, is what I'm gonna say. Two and a half years to Orlando, to Orlando Palmer, which you guys might know as I am son.

SPEAKER_06 10:02

Oh, we definitely know I am son.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yes, I am a fake, pretty amazing. I am me too, actually.

SPEAKER_06 10:07

He is so good at writing and playing and singing. That's why I like him. He's not like fake, he's yeah, a legit artist.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

He's very intentional as well. And he he's a grown-up church kid.

SPEAKER_06 10:19

He is I want to get into all that. Um, definitely check out I Am Son. We'll put a link down below. Um but you were singing before you met Orlando, you grew up in church. Listen, I know all you know all the things. Now, what kind of church you grew up in?

SPEAKER_02 10:36

You know, my dad was technically Church of God in Christ.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

Come on, Kojic. Come on now, come on, Kojik.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

But before we do all that, we were in Yakima, Washington. Okay, which was less than 1% black.

unknown 10:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 10:51

So not a lot of Kojik churches.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

So no, and um, but their church was bilingual. So we would go to convocation, and that's where we got all of the experiences, is when we would go to Seattle or Tacoma, Washington.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

Wow. You did you sing this is the church of God in Christ?

SPEAKER_02 11:13

You know, this is the church of God in Christ. And I'm gonna pass. You just can't join. What?

SPEAKER_04 11:20

By God appointed update.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

No, you guys branched off into some other that's another genomic.

SPEAKER_06 11:25

It's a new age church.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

That's new age church of God and Christ.

SPEAKER_06 11:29

We had the old one, you can't join it.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

The OG. The OG to be born in it. That's what they just can't join in. You got to be born in it.

SPEAKER_06 11:38

Can you imagine telling your kids at school that wanted to come visit your church?

SPEAKER_02 11:44

I know you like this, but you can't come. You don't know nothing about it.

SPEAKER_06 11:47

You gotta be born. You don't even know our theme song. Right. Yeah, they got a little that got a little uh cult on it.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

It got a little um just a little bit now that I know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

I'm just joking. I grew up coaching.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Oh, right, don't get us in trouble.

SPEAKER_06 12:01

Because the bishops will send you an email.

unknown 12:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Maybe that's why they changed the words to what you were singing.

SPEAKER_06 12:07

Yeah, well, what happened was well let me first let me first make sure we okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_06 12:12

I love the church God of Christ.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Me too.

SPEAKER_06 12:14

I grew up in Memphis, went to convocation, Clark sisters, Bishop Mason, all of it.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

We love you guys.

SPEAKER_06 12:19

It is not a cult, it's a great church.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:22

Um, but the lyrics they changed because people would think I don't know how to sing this song for my my friends and family. Exactly. What they really meant was you're born again.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 12:34

Not born again, not born into the church God in Christ. You're born into the church of faith.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yes, Jesus, yes.

SPEAKER_06 12:40

So it totally makes sense. But classic outside the family conversation that sounds like you're part of a crazy.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Oh, my brain definitely was like, what does this mean? It's the older I got. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:51

But they this is why they updated it to give me the updated. We are anointed by God appointed to be the church of God in Christ.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

And I like that. Thank you, bishops.

SPEAKER_06 13:01

I don't think it ever got accepted. Because people still sing the over.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Definitely, yeah. Definitely not.

SPEAKER_06 13:09

I still don't know what it means either. Appointed you we are appointed to and anointed to be the church. I mean, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

If you just said to be the church, yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 13:19

The church of God.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

We're good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:21

But hey, I will say, man, the best musicians, the best singers, the best preachers come out of the church of God in Christ. I will stand two feet on that, man. I mean Clark Sisters, J Moss, Kim Burrell. Yeah, Doe. Well, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah. I hope I hope y'all still claim me. I'm God said that. You know, I went to the uh convention, the Kojak Convention. Yeah. Never seen anything like that. Because it's huge. It's huge. And you know, Memphis has a store, a Kojik store.

SPEAKER_06 13:53

Yes, they do. Really?

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yes. I had to take video and send it to my family. Like, did y'all know this exists? I mean, 30,000 people came for that Kojic convention.

SPEAKER_07 14:02

Yeah, what was the store like?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Um, they had clergy stuff, they had books, they had communion, communion cups, rogues, probably.

SPEAKER_06 14:10

Yes, Sunday school books, all of the things, attendance, like ledgers, yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Anything you need. If you ever want to start a Kojic church, that's where you can go.

SPEAKER_06 14:21

I got a starter kit. You can stay. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 14:27

Um, so you grew up Kojic, but then what else? You said sorta. What else was going on?

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Well, that it's because my dad's church wasn't now he was under Bishop Westbrook in Seattle. Okay. Right. But his church wasn't traditionally Kojik because of because his church looked like the city we were in. Okay. So it was white, Hispanic, and black. Wow. So we would start the Sunday mornings with a Spanish-speaking service. We would sing our songs in Spanish. Wow. And then my parents would preach in Spanish and they would have an interpreter. Wow. And then we would do the English service. I didn't know that. And my dad is a songwriter, so we sang the songs he wrote first for church. Wow. And some other stuff. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my upbringing until we moved to Shreeport, Louisiana.

SPEAKER_06 15:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Which was Assemblies of God.

SPEAKER_06 15:16

Come on, Assemblies of God.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Which they did start together, but the enemy came, you know. But God's still working.

SPEAKER_06 15:23

People don't know that though.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:25

That a lot of Pentecostal churches were together.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

And no longer torn asunder.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Torn asunder. Racial tensions. Yeah. Things like that. And um, and God has a way of using, you know, and still moving within.

SPEAKER_06 15:42

Still moving.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

But yeah, so Islam is a god is is kind of like similar. The beliefs are the same. I'll say that. The core beliefs are the same. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:51

Was the dress the same? Pretty conservative?

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_06 15:54

Really?

SPEAKER_02 15:55

No, because it because Assembly's of God is more white and that's just a different culture.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

You know, I would go right now, today, I will I would go to uh the Koji Convention just to see everybody's outfits. I want to see it.

SPEAKER_06 16:09

No, it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

It's a thing.

unknown 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

You need to see it.

SPEAKER_06 16:13

Yeah. You would think you would be in a different century. Literally like 1993.

unknown 16:19

Really?

SPEAKER_06 16:20

Big hats, bold colors, big dresses, not a lot of makeup. Well, is is coaching makeup now?

SPEAKER_04 16:27

I feel like some people got eh.

SPEAKER_06 16:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Wherever you put that on the scale.

SPEAKER_06 16:33

Depending on which version.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

It does, yeah. But but not pay no pants. You know, the girls aren't really not really wearing pants, you know.

SPEAKER_06 16:42

Yeah. So to this day, my grandmother, I don't think has ever worn a pair of pants.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

I always knew my grandmother, and this was her pushing the boundary in a jean skirt and some tennis shoes.

SPEAKER_06 16:52

Yes, that's the picnic outfit.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

The picnic outfit.

SPEAKER_06 16:56

That's and you know what I'm talking about. Because I think white people have the same version.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

They do.

SPEAKER_06 17:01

Like they would dress down for picnics, but still have a like unbuttoned collar shirt.

unknown 17:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 17:06

Khaki pants on.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 17:07

But but nobody wants to wear shorts when it's 90 degrees.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

They're not doing that. They're gonna wear a long skirt and some Nikes.

SPEAKER_06 17:17

The whitest Nikes you've ever seen. The whitest Nikes, yeah. That's crazy, man. Why do you think people what do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 17:24

I mean, that was just like their doctrine, you know, and um, yeah, I think maybe the older I don't know, maybe I saw her wear pants one time, but it was just like holiness from the outside in versus from the inside out. You know, now we know the truth.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

But if you go to the convention, there's still a little bit of that mindset there within that world.

SPEAKER_07 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:51

Can I ask so uh what was your parents? I guess that's what we're doing, right? Um when what was the context of your parents knowing Spanish? But also when you said a uh uh bilingual church, my first thought was, oh, you had everybody who spoke Spanish come in, and then after that everybody they left, and then everybody who spoke English came in. What was I like the idea of like, hey, we're gonna be bilingual in here together? Like, what was like did you grow up speaking Spanish? Or like I I love that that unit I've never heard of that before.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

I did. I'm so rusty now. My accent makes people think that I can speak fluently, and then they start talking back to me. Sorry, and I get found out.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Um, but you know, in Yacima, we had a population of people from Mexico who had migrated up and they didn't speak English very well. But my parents' heart was for people to come to know the Lord. So I grew up watching a lot of people get saved. It wasn't even like no shade to any church, but it wasn't like people saying, Oh, that church looks cool, let me leave here and go over there. They were like doing outreach events, and so their church probably only got to about 200. That was the the the height of like their membership. But it was like people who didn't speak English and they were learning and they came in, and mom and dad just and I think that's actually what preaching the gospel should look like. Um not us forcing them to speak our language, but us going to them and learning their language and learning their sonic musical language and and preaching the gospel in their language. And um, so I grew up seeing that. And so I think they separated it so that we could sing their songs and there weren't any like interruptions.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

But there were times where we would come together that I remember us singing, like we would do the verse in Spanish and the course in English and just le let it be what it is, you know. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. And I I probably don't talk about it as much because I don't want to get fouled out.

SPEAKER_06 19:58

Be like, yeah, she knows, she's not as good as she knows but it makes sense where your ministry is now, where it seems like it's going, where you're a bridge between these different cultures, you know, between Kojik and CCM. I'm hearing now between black and Hispanic and white. I mean, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Yeah, you know, I was wondering on the way over here why is there this subgroup of people how old are you, Dewan? 40. Okay, so I'm 37, I'm right behind you, who carry this thing where they're kind of like riding this cultural line. I think that we grew up because I was listening to Azusa and I was thinking about Ron Cannoli, Andre Crouch, Israel Houghton.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

There was a moment in our upbringing where people were coming together and everybody was in the room. You're right. Even under a black leader.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yes, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

There was this moment in time where the church did look like everybody was just in the room, and we was doing all the songs, we were doing songs that spoke to everybody. Yes. I don't know how that happened.

SPEAKER_06 21:03

I don't either, or what happened since.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah, but that marked us, I think. And so that's where that sound, I think the ability to kind of go over here and go over there and desire to learn. Yeah, I think it comes from that because we grew up in that tent meetings, everybody was there.

SPEAKER_06 21:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:20

Yeah. I mean, you talk about Azusa, which if you haven't checked out Azusa, the Azusa records with Carlton Pearson, Rest in Peace. Those are some crazy records and diverse. That choir.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 21:34

They were diverse in skin tone and shirt color.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

It was like and shirt color.

SPEAKER_06 21:39

Yellow, black, and white. I mean, it was like so.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Oh, they look like these microphones.

SPEAKER_06 21:44

Literally, literally being about it. I mean, it was Donald Kirk, it was there, the Clark sisters were there. I mean, it was just like crazy. But it's named after the Azusa Street Revival in California that happened, you know, many years ago. And most of the Pentecostal did not. Nations we know now came from that revival.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:02

But to your point, even that revival was multicultural.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

But then it was one of the signs.

SPEAKER_06 22:08

It's one of the signs. And go back to the book of Acts and what was there, the Spirit of God fell and nations gathered. So I think there is a connection between the power of God and nations gathering. My question though is Kojik split from A G.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

Spanish is really still not, even though in Nashville, the fastest growing population, most churches are not learning Spanish songs. Most churches are not putting Spanish on the screens. And if someone were to walk in a church that speaks Spanish, they probably couldn't understand what happens in a church in the middle of town where there's Spanish-speaking people, Spanish-speaking people everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

So my question is, where did Israel go? Where did Israel hold him go? Because I feel like he was the front of a powerful move of God.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:56

And I'm not talking about where did he go personally? I'm talking about who is his follow-up dude. Like who is the follow-up artist that was like, I know guitar in E and Andre Crouch in E flat.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 23:09

I just feel like we no one's really picked up that baton.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

Doe. I'm basically saying, no, it's time. Because you know what I'm saying? Like, if you if somebody has to do it. If you have a background in Spanish, you know Andre Crouch and you play keys and you play guitar, I prophesy.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

You listen, look, I just a heavy mantle. I don't know. And and Israel was also like hitting like Johannesburg. Yeah. Just saying. Yeah, yeah. An album in Asia. Yes. I think it would be a few people that would that would carry that. But yes, absolutely. Where where is Israel? And he did. I just have to say he did just win that uh Grammy foritos.

SPEAKER_06 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_06 23:54

Shout out to Israel Holden, man, one of the greatest Christian artists, gospel artists. Absolutely. I think we don't give him enough props. I mean, Friend of God was probably the song that the most kind of churches sang. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:07

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 24:09

Alpha and Omega.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Alpha and Omega.

SPEAKER_06 24:12

I mean, this guy is like crazy.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Lord, you were good, actually. Lord, you were good. Yeah. People still doing that.

SPEAKER_06 24:18

Jesus be the center of it all.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 24:20

So for you to say that a movement has to pick up where he left off actually says how crazy Israel was. That you need to take it.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

He was a movement. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:30

Israel was a movement. Is exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

So are you, though, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Oh, thanks.

SPEAKER_06 24:36

I'm lift- I'm lifting him up and now I'm about to lift you up. Jesus. You can do it, man. You can do it. All right.

SPEAKER_07 24:41

Thank you. I was thinking about did he set out to be a movement? Like, did he go, oh, what these songs will be saying in Johannesburg, and I'll go to Johannesburg and we'll record in Asia. I feel like now there's this big push for there's analytics and there's branding, and we have all these data points and whatnot. But I'm like, I I don't think I'm sure they had some of that back in the day, but also there was another, there was a God force at play that these songs did. Like Alpha and Omega sang that in Tanzania. Like that's a huge uh see African choirs and artists singing that all the s all the time. Like that's a uh uh there's just some things that I don't know, I don't know if you can like market that into existence as much as well.

SPEAKER_06 25:26

It feels like he I know he grew up in church, he's a grown-up church kid. I knew he grew up singing Spanish songs because he's he's working on a record right now that he's doing in Puerto Rico.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Amazing.

SPEAKER_06 25:36

So it's like he's not faking that. Yeah, and there's no way you can fake that and then it'd be a worldwide movement. So I think being true to who you are, being true to the environment you grew up in, and God gave him a crazy voice. I mean, it's just like that's God. Yeah, that's God. Um I do want to do something with you though. We've been doing a game with our friends.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 26:01

And uh, did you grow up doing Bible games in church? Like sword drills or memory verses or memory verses, yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Um, I used to know every book of the Bible from college.

SPEAKER_06 26:13

Could you do it? Could you do it?

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Absolutely not. I probably could make it to one of the profits.

SPEAKER_06 26:18

Let's just try. Let's just try.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Why would you can you do it?

SPEAKER_06 26:20

I know a song.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Wait, but I do want you guys to know that I cram, I studied and crammed the whole Bible last night before. Yeah, I did a cram study session.

SPEAKER_06 26:29

Flashcards, ChatGPT. What kind of questions would they ask me? Let's see if we can make it through the whole Bible in order to.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Between all three of us? All three of us. Great, not just me. Let me start.

SPEAKER_06 26:43

You say you know that's a song though. Yeah. Okay. Let her start. Wherever she drops off, then we'll pick it up.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua Judges, Ruth, first and second Samuel, first and second Kings, first, second Quran, Cole's, Esther. Ezra. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes.

SPEAKER_06 27:06

Song of Solomon.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Song of Solomon. I think I'm done. Isaiah.

SPEAKER_06 27:09

Isaiah.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel. Joel. I was gonna say Josiah. It's not even a book in the Bible. Joel. And I think I'm Amos. Amos, Nehemiah.

SPEAKER_06 27:23

Amos, Obadiah.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Oh, I'm done.

SPEAKER_06 27:24

See, Amos. Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah. Jonah, Micah, Naam, Hebekah, Zephaniah, Hagai, Zachariah, Malachi. You did great, though.

SPEAKER_07 27:35

You got it.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

You got through there.

SPEAKER_06 27:37

That was like 75%. I mean, you most people cannot do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah, you know why? Because I'm an old testament queen. You need a word from the Lord.

SPEAKER_07 27:47

You're not gonna believe this. They wrote a new one.

SPEAKER_06 27:49

I think I figured about this. There's a new version.

SPEAKER_07 27:53

Yeah, Jesus Kong does away with a lot of things. Really?

SPEAKER_02 27:56

What?

SPEAKER_06 27:57

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Now you teach us about grace.

SPEAKER_06 28:01

Teach us about the cross, will you, please? I want to hear your song.

SPEAKER_07 28:04

What was the song? Uh, okay. This Jewel Stewart taught me this. It was like this jazz tune. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, numbers, do the routine. Come on. Joshua judges ruth. Boom, boom, boom. First the second save you. Well, first, I'm not, I'll do it, I'll do the whole thing, but that's that's great, man.

SPEAKER_06 28:24

I feel like more people know that song. I think that's where they learned.

SPEAKER_07 28:27

But then again, when you were like, I was going through it, and I'm like, uh, what is the what is that part of the jazz song? Yeah, right, right, right. We didn't have songs straight.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Your husband did.

SPEAKER_06 28:35

Really?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

But this is more like Genesis and just numbers.

SPEAKER_06 28:40

Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_07 28:42

Yes. You learned that from a fraternity with swagger.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

My mom. And all his brothers can do it. And by the time they're at the end, they're like, hi.

SPEAKER_06 28:49

Hi, man. That's their walkout song.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 28:54

Wow. Yeah. That's true. We had to learn it just straight up.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

So did I.

SPEAKER_06 28:59

Look at this list, figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Get that word in your heart.

SPEAKER_06 29:02

I won a bunch of trophies, though, I will say.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Did you?

SPEAKER_07 29:05

You also, we already talked about this already, but you did uh Bible spelling bees. Spelling bee, man. I can spell all of them. It did not.

SPEAKER_06 29:13

Nephaniah. Habakkuk? Habakkuk? I don't know which one y'all say. He won he won awards doing that.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Oh, you had to spell Habakkuk?

SPEAKER_06 29:19

Yeah, it has spelling B. Or just random things in the Bible, like spell, you know. That's the hardest one. You can do that right now. I don't know if I could do. I can even say. You said it. PH or a PH? Which one? I think it's. Yeah, I'm not even going to. I was about to say MF, but that's not how it's not. That's what they call him.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

That was his nickname.

SPEAKER_06 29:47

A Bible character with a nickname MF is not appropriate though.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

It was back then.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:53

I think they called him Mo, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Mo. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06 29:57

We gotta do New Testament. There's grace at a cross we gotta get to.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

And that's on him.

SPEAKER_06 30:02

Yeah, is there a song for that too?

SPEAKER_07 30:04

Uh yeah, the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the Acts of the Apostles. Young categories. Wow, guys. I gotta drop, I'll drop the singles. Y'all had head, like headers. Yeah, yeah. Corinthians and the two and the two Corinthians.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Okay. And the okay, okay.

SPEAKER_07 30:26

Two Corinthians. I'm not gonna I mean Corinthians. The president said that. That was not me. That wasn't in our song.

SPEAKER_06 30:34

Okay, okay, okay. Y'all, this has been so useful. That's funny. We've used this every day since we've been a kid, the order of the books of the Bible. I'm so glad they put that in our hearts.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_06 30:47

For instilling the word. Honestly, it's been the most helpful because we've been playing sword drills with every guest.

SPEAKER_07 30:53

Great.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

Where we've been trying to.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

So excited.

SPEAKER_07 30:56

Have you played sword drills growing up?

unknown 30:58

No.

SPEAKER_07 30:58

Oh, okay. This is where somebody tells the tells you the book, chapter, verse of the Bible, and you have to.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

I told you I give words from the Lord.

SPEAKER_07 31:05

Come on.

SPEAKER_06 31:06

Oh, without the Bible?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

I don't do sword drills.

SPEAKER_06 31:10

That's why Kochik kicked her out. That's why I got kicked out of Koch. You are following the manual. I'm freestyling. I'm freestyling. Exactly. You don't read the word.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

No, I'm game. I told you I cram studied.

SPEAKER_06 31:22

Okay. Um, I'm trying to remember. Did you have to memorize a statement of faith, Kochig? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Because we weren't traditional coaching.

SPEAKER_06 31:32

Got it, got it, got it. We had to memorize. Uh, we believe in the word of God to be the inspired written word of God, wholly and infallible. I mean, it was a whole statement.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 31:40

Yeah, crazy, man. Um, okay, I'm gonna take a right turn.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 31:44

I wasn't planning on asking this, but I'm very curious. Oh, okay. We were talking before you came on about movies.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:50

So let's just go back to your childhood as a as a church kid. Were you able to watch R-rated movies?

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Absolutely not. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

No R-rated movies. No. Did you sneak and watch R-rated movies?

SPEAKER_02 32:02

I didn't. Okay. One of my siblings did. Okay. And I learned from watching.

SPEAKER_06 32:07

Yeah, yeah. Don't ever do that.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Don't ever do that.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Also, I was that kid that was always convicted. Now that I'm grown, I'm like, that was condemnation.

SPEAKER_06 32:16

Okay, okay. A shame. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

I was at every altar call. I always thought I was going to hell. Oh yeah, that was me. I was scared. Like, okay. The rapture's gonna come while I'm doing this.

unknown 32:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 32:28

Press play.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Absolutely. And I'm gonna hit the ceiling.

SPEAKER_06 32:33

Oh that was me. So um was there anything crazy in your childhood that you actually were like, I'm gonna try this, despite my um, I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

I probably listened to some songs I wasn't supposed to listen to. Yeah. You know what we would do? We weren't allowed to watch Power Rangers. When you guys watch Power Rangers either. Morphing into a what?

SPEAKER_06 32:59

The devil is a liar. Okay, I'm gonna say a phrase. We're sanctified.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

We don't morph.

SPEAKER_07 33:04

I forgot morph. Is it because power was in the title?

SPEAKER_06 33:08

We're transformed by the renewing of our mind, is what they say.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

There was a moment when I was allowed to, but it was like, no.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

We couldn't do that either.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Yeah, but I'm gonna say a name, and and you guys are gonna know, hopefully, what show I'm talking about. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_06 33:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Demon in my pocket. Pocket demon.

SPEAKER_06 33:29

That's the name of a show. Does anybody know Pocket Demon?

SPEAKER_02 33:33

That's what they was calling it.

SPEAKER_07 33:34

Pokemon.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:37

I remember that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

I remember a preacher saying, and you got your kids watching Pokemon. Do you know what Pokemon means? Demon in my pocket. Demon in my pocket. Yeah. That was in my spirit just now. You know why that didn't scare me?

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Because that's what I was hearing happening in my that's what they did. Preach the message about Demon in my pocket. And you got these spirits in your home, and you're wondering why your kids won't act right. They won't listen. They won't pray. They won't finish their meal.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

It's that Pokemon. Gotta get right, gotta get right, gotta get right.

SPEAKER_06 34:15

Wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

But I wait.

SPEAKER_06 34:23

They won't finish their meal.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

I had to think, I had to improvise, you guys.

SPEAKER_06 34:28

No, that's deep in your belly.

SPEAKER_07 34:31

Wait, it scared me because I heard that playing. Do all cogit grown-up drink kids just have that like a constant loop? Always. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 34:38

Always like the band hits. Yeah. Demon in my pocket?

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 34:46

My son just asked me if he could get some pokey. He will never.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

You're gonna think about it now. You're gonna think about it.

SPEAKER_06 34:51

I need to talk about it, right? Tobin, you will never. I will never buy a demon for your pocket. You just need to know. You may never watch this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Amen.

SPEAKER_06 35:02

You might be asleep in your bed. Glory. But you will never. Nyla, you either. Put it down.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Oh glory.

SPEAKER_06 35:10

Put it down. Put that deep. Now I'm talking to you, parents. How dare you?

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Okay. Now I'm talking the shift. Now I'm talking to you.

SPEAKER_07 35:19

You are watching. Duan's gonna go home and see Tobin tonight, but he was like, Tobin.

SPEAKER_06 35:26

You started interceding. I heard you said, let's go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Because that was in the background, too. Glory to Jay God.

SPEAKER_06 35:34

Yeah. Touch up.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

I had to help you.

SPEAKER_06 35:36

Yeah. People to think that we just had terrible childhoods. We couldn't eat anything. We couldn't wear nothing. We couldn't watch nothing. We couldn't have fun.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Yeah, I was wearing pants because my, you know, my parents were the typical Kojit.

SPEAKER_06 35:50

Okay. Now I gotta go home and pray about Pokemon.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Do you really?

SPEAKER_06 35:57

Well, well, everybody at school, at a, you know, everybody at school has them. Tobin's asking for the cards. And he showed me a book in the bookstore the other day, and I was like, Yeah. I don't know, man. And I'm I don't want to be that parent, but I'm like, I don't what I could buy you any book in this bookstore.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:16

Do I have to buy you Pokemon?

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah. I and I'm not there yet, so I'm just, you guys can tell me what the other one was Demon Hunters.

SPEAKER_06 36:23

Have y'all heard about Demon Hunters?

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I have.

SPEAKER_06 36:26

We haven't watched it yet. And I've heard from Christian parents that it's, you know, demon hunters, like maybe the right kind of demon show. Positive. Yeah, like we kicking.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

They're killing them.

SPEAKER_06 36:36

We're going out kicking out demons.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Okay. But what name?

SPEAKER_06 36:44

Because Paul, I know. But I don't know Hollywood. I don't know Marvel.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

What name are they?

SPEAKER_06 36:54

I don't know Spielberg.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Come on now.

SPEAKER_06 36:56

I don't know. I do know there's a name. Above every name.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:04

And that's my point, though. Yeah, I'm not going to be able to do it. If people are talking about demons and don't know the Lord, even if it's innocent to them, I don't know, y'all. Right, right. I'm not trying to be holier than that. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

No, you're just saying I wasn't in the room when y'all was doing these things. And sometimes y'all be doing real things and we we don't know about it.

SPEAKER_06 37:23

And we know this to be true that Hollywood is definitely opening the door.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Oh, they're trying to get the atmosphere right, you know? And they're doing the things they know to do to get the atmosphere right for the show. And and and even like, I'll say this even like real witches have called into shows and been like, hey, you guys need to stop doing that because that's real. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, oh man. So follow your conviction, Duan.

SPEAKER_06 37:51

Y'all, we are so churchy to this day. If my wife and I are watching a movie and someone, like, uh, what's that? What's that show on oh, what's the new show? Dune. Yeah. Dune. The movie. We were watching Dune. Yeah. And I'm not trying, I'm not trying to be that dude.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

You weren't even there.

SPEAKER_06 38:08

But every time they start talking in a language I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

That sounds ancient. And there it sounds like there are other voices behind the voice.

SPEAKER_06 38:16

Yeah, whispery. Laura will literally look at T Faye and say, renounce. And we'll fast forward. And then I renounce it. Here's the thing. I'm not trying to be spooky and weird. Yeah. But I just don't know. No. I don't know. And people be like, I couldn't sleep at night. People like, I don't know where this dog came from. Yeah. I'm just saying, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

And do you know what? I here's what I'll say to that. If you feel a sensitivity around it, then protect and do what you need to do. And don't feel bad about that. Yeah. Because I think there was a time in church where people would make fun of you and call you spooky. I don't like that word. Yes. I'm just trying to protect my house. And I'll sit and laugh with you about you watching it at your house. Right, right. We'll have a whole conversation. Right. You won't even know that I'm changing the change.

SPEAKER_06 39:09

Right, right, right, right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And people have different convictions. I mean, Harry Potter's a good example.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Conviction's the word.

SPEAKER_06 39:15

Harry Potter, it's been around for a long time, and there are some Christians who won't read the book or watch the movie. And there are others who I mean, I didn't grow up watching it, but my wife did.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

I wasn't allowed.

SPEAKER_06 39:23

I wasn't allowed to watch it. You mean you have a wand in your hand and cast?

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:28

You're not gonna do that over in my mom's house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

No.

SPEAKER_07 39:31

But you know, I I remember when I was a kid, uh uh we wanted to watch Aladdin. Yeah, we were watching Aladdin. And my dad, who my family immigrated to the States from Tanzania, East Africa when I was a kid. And my dad was like, Who's that? He was like, Who's that on the TV? And we're like, Oh, that's the genie. And my dad was like, What? He was so shocked. He was like, What? And I'm like, that's the genie. Yeah, he's cool. Like, where did he come from? Like, oh, he came from the lamp. He rubbed the lamp. And my dad was like, Turn it up. He was like, genies are real. He was like, because that's he knew that in Tanzania, like there were people who had a genie, they would call it a genie in a little like bottle or something, and they would and so I remember thinking, I it's a kid's show, man. It's Robin Williams. He's doing silly voices and singing. But my dad had no concept for like that. There was why would they try to like when you say it out loud like that?

SPEAKER_06 40:26

Yeah, you're like, no, I wouldn't let my kids watch that. But because it's I mean, Disney got a little something going on.

unknown 40:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 40:33

Snow White raised from the dead with a kiss. Is right? Is that the right word?

SPEAKER_02 40:37

That's um Is that Sleeping Beauty? Yeah, sleeping beauty.

SPEAKER_06 40:40

Um Aladdin, magic carpet, magic carpet rod.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:45

I mean, this I mean the whole thing is magic based. Which again, do you boo? Like it's like I watch these movies too. I'm not saying but it's just interesting, man. When you go to other other countries and they're like, Y'all play about witches, we actually have them down the street.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yes, when you talk to someone else, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:03

I heard a guy tell a story this week. He said he was a missionary in Africa and he had a woman in his house as a maid, and they had to let her go because she was stealing money. And as soon as they let her go, he got terribly deathly sick. Well couldn't figure it out, doctors couldn't figure it out, and the community in Africa was like, Oh yeah, she's a witch. She cursed you when you fired her. And he was like, Well, what do I do? He was like, Oh, well, the the name of Jesus. We use the name of Jesus to defeat her curses. They pray for this man and he got better.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Just like that.

SPEAKER_06 41:38

So what I'm saying is, like, we don't have those experiences as much here, but let me tell you, other countries, they don't they don't play with And it's a fact.

SPEAKER_07 41:46

They're communicating, they talk about it like it is a real fact. That's not like it's not. Like it's just everyday life over there.

SPEAKER_06 41:52

Everyday life, yeah. Yeah, which the witch lives there, and if you want to get somebody sick, she can do that for you over there.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:58

So you're right. When you talk about the name of Jesus, man, it's almost like we were like cultural Christians. We know how to use his name to get tax write-offs, you know, and past tests. Pass test and it didn't work for me, but parking spot when you need it. Now that works for me.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Every time.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Every time.

SPEAKER_06 42:19

Pray before a football game. You know, and that's all good stuff. But other people are using his name to literally get curses broken off of their families and bodies. So hey man, follow your convictions, do what you gotta do, but yeah, I guess don't be naive or deceived that everything that we do does not have some tie to a spiritual thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yes, and if you feel something, don't brush it off. Just do some research. That's right. Write about it.

SPEAKER_07 42:45

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:46

That's right. That verse that Paul says where he's like, all things are lawful, not all things are beneficial. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

That's good.

SPEAKER_07 42:53

I'm like, I mean, I think about that now with the vastness of the the internet and all the things. Where you sit down at the end of the day with your spouse and you're like, oh, let's do you want to listen to something, or do you want to watch something?

unknown 43:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:07

Like, there's everything. But I'm like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

That's so good. Yeah. What are we doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:12

And it's really difficult. Hey, if you're a Christian content creator, we need you, man, because it's so hard to find not even Christian content, but just a movie that you can actually lower your guard.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:24

Like, I don't have to be guarding this movie because I know that this is coming from a healthy place.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:29

The amount of times I've let my guard down, like, this is probably cool. And then I'm hit with. Yeah. They don't even warm you up for the sex scene anymore. It used to be like the music, the lights would come down.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

They don't.

SPEAKER_06 43:40

They look at each other a certain way. He unbuttoned his top button.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:44

Now you'll literally go from grocery store to butt naked.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Do you know? I went to school. I went to school for and my thesis was a screenplay. I had to write. So I understood. And I feel like I have my master's in story in um, excuse me. Creative writing. Wow. And it's the art of storytelling. I didn't know that. But I well, I saying that to say, now when I watch movies, I don't know what it opened me up to, not spiritually, but just like being in that world and reading those books. I know when they're gonna cut to a random sex scene.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Really?

SPEAKER_02 44:17

It's the weirdest thing. And it and it doesn't add anything to the storyline. It never does. No. You know, I always wonder like, why don't they just release? They would make money, like, if they released another version of this.

SPEAKER_07 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

And cut a lot of the bluff out.

SPEAKER_07 44:33

It's editing. You just cut out the hey, here's the clean version. Right. Here's the Angel Studios.

SPEAKER_06 44:39

I was about to say Angel does that. What's the do they do that? Well, no, is there's a platform called uh Vid Angel. Vid Angel. That's what they did. Yeah. They take movies that are good movies and they'll remove cusswords. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:51

I don't think they're maybe they're still around, but I think they would they would partner with uh with uh uh the different streaming services. Yeah you would like sign in and then watch it.

SPEAKER_06 45:01

Yeah, maybe Wonder does the same thing. Wonder Really? We'll we'll we'll link I know there's an app somewhere where you can watch family-friendly versions of movies that you wouldn't. I'm gonna check that out.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

I didn't know.

SPEAKER_06 45:12

If you're doing that, thank you. We'll make sure we'll link you to that. Because I think that's really important. When you have kids and stuff, man, it's like my my son's bedroom is right behind our living room and he can hear whatever Laura and I want to watch at night. And it's like, man, I don't I don't want to I'll watch things I won't let him watch, but at the same time, I'm not trying to him walk in trying to get apple juice from the fridge and he walking in on a like a they always walk in right when what is that?

SPEAKER_07 45:40

What is that? What is the remote? And you can never find it when you need to be able to have the remote. No, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Um I was like, right here, Daddy. This one, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:53

Did y'all watch stuff like Chucky Scary Movies? No.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

I've seen the first one. Yeah. I went through a season, I never watched him at home. I watched him, sorry, godparents, I watched him at my godparents' house. Yes, because they had all the movies.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

And um, and then I had to get delivered from a spirit of fear.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

I was so afraid to sleep at night. And I'm a dreamer. Wow. And I'm just, I'm just very sensitive. So I, yeah, I was opening myself up to all of that stuff. Wow. And it's still something I'm very curious about. I understand why the curiosity is there now. Um, and I didn't back then. Um, and so you know, I just don't open that. I can't do it. I can't do the the real spiritual stuff. You won't see me there. Like polcher guys, you wouldn't do polture guys or like um is that like funny and humorous?

SPEAKER_06 46:44

Polture guys is not. It's not, it's actually scary. Yeah, no. No, it's actually like uh exorcism. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Oh, yeah, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I let someone talk me, uh uh, one of my mentors talk me into watching. Never mind. I don't even say it.

SPEAKER_07 47:00

Like, I'm not gonna throw my mentor.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

I mean, it's years ago. No, I won't even be under the bus. It was so long ago. The exorcism of Emily Rose. Because it takes place in a courtroom and it's a whole oh okay. She was like, it's so powerful. It's a movie, it's gonna, it's a movie, okay, and it's about the real case. And she's like, You don't you don't even see da-da-da. But it was enough for me to not sleep for three weeks. And um, yeah, so I just can't I can't do that stuff.

SPEAKER_06 47:24

It's not even really conviction for you, it's more like I it will mess me up. Yeah, it does me too.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

I won't be able to take a nap in the daytime.

SPEAKER_06 47:31

Yeah, Chucky messed me up. I watched Chucky and I was I was scared of everything in my room for two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 47:37

Yeah. The people who do watch those movies, I I had a friend who convinced me, like, hey, let's go watch paranormal activity in theaters. And I did, and yeah, same thing. I went home and I'm like, now I'm a 19-year-old grown man scared of the-scared of the dark. Yeah, I watched one of the things. And then I thought, I'm like, that I there is no context in which I desire fear. Right. Like exactly all the emotions that I'm looking to feel within a week. Yeah, I'm not like terror. Terror is not on the list. Hey, Friday at 9 p.m. I would like to be utterly terrified for two hours.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Because I like the rush.

SPEAKER_07 48:16

Yeah, because I like the rush. Some people do though. I don't like the rush. I don't like the rush. Oh look at it. So maybe I'm just too much church kid sound mind that that that those movies, the few times that I did watch, I'm like, man, I'm like, I really I put some dents in the sound mind. Yeah, like holes in there.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

Imagination is way, I'm way too creative with my mind. Like the amount of things that could happen in my room.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

But I think what happens as church kids is you become an adult.

SPEAKER_06 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

You're like, let me just see what I can do.

SPEAKER_06 48:49

It can't be as bad as they said.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

I know it's not real. And then you're sitting there going, yeah, it's not real.

SPEAKER_06 48:55

It's not real. Yeah. You know what movie got me though? Y'all seen um uh uh uh oh, what's the name of it? About emotions.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

About oh yes.

SPEAKER_06 49:06

Uh the what is it called? The kids' movie. No, no, the movie about emotions.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Um it's colorful. There's two of them. What is the name?

SPEAKER_07 49:17

In and out. In and out. Inside out. Inside out. In and out the rest of the thing.

SPEAKER_06 49:22

Which mixed feelings on the internet. Um inside out. Inside out.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:26

To me, that's a good example of like creative, colorful, yeah, meaningful movie that's not like Christian branded. And it felt like it was actually built with scientific therapeutic facts in mind.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Yeah, teach you about your.

SPEAKER_06 49:43

I mean, I actually had like great conversations with my wife and kids after watching that one. Yeah, it was beautiful. So, yeah, man, I just hope we get more content creators that can make stuff that's meaningful that you don't have to protect yourself from. Um, okay, shifting.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Shifting.

SPEAKER_06 50:03

I could talk up with y'all all day, man. This is great.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 50:05

Um, I want to know about your dating life growing up.

unknown 50:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 50:10

Because just like movies and entertainment was crazy, I feel like dating was crazy growing up in church too.

SPEAKER_07 50:17

Not it was not if it was allowed.

SPEAKER_06 50:19

Right, right, right, right. Well, were you allowed to date? Were you allowed to date?

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Not until I was 18.

SPEAKER_06 50:24

One, you can go on one date until 18.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

No dates.

SPEAKER_06 50:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

What is that? I mean, I'm what's date is that a same day. Did you want to? Um I'm sure that I did. And I probably convinced myself that I did not. But I definitely couldn't wait to be in this uh what I thought relationships were gonna be. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 50:48

Did you feel prepared when you started dating?

SPEAKER_02 50:51

I was not prepared when I started dating.

SPEAKER_06 50:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Um, I was a late bloomer.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

And I was so scared of missing God. And um, and so I was that person that was saying, like, God said you're not on day one. This is my first God said you're not the one. This is me. Because I didn't want to miss you.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

Can we finish? Can we finish lunch first? I was gonna pay me a legitimate pain.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Like I'm 37 now, thinking to myself, I could have killed the dating game.

SPEAKER_06 51:24

Could have killed the dating game.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

I could have killed the dating game, but I messed it all up by letting my first line be, hey, I know you're a really nice guy, but God told me already that you God already spoke to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 51:37

I think it probably spoke to me. God already spoke to me. I still got dressed and drove here. I did.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

I'm like finishing the last spite. Hey, there's something I want to talk to you about. Yeah, um, that was me in my 20s.

SPEAKER_06 51:51

Okay, so when you started dating, we were talking about PDA before you came on.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:55

Um, let's start with dating. Were you all kissing your your girlfriend, boyfriends? And like, was that like dropping them off?

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Yeah. Did you just go like this on purpose?

SPEAKER_06 52:07

No, I it was itching my nose. But I thought you go kissing.

SPEAKER_07 52:12

I I don't think I was allowed, I wasn't not allowed to date. Oh, you weren't allowed to till I feel like college either. So so I didn't. I had a couple of girls that I was interested in. Yeah. Wait, I'm like, I don't know if I heard a lot of guys say that they were not allowed to date. I mean, I it wasn't, I wasn't they never said you I wasn't allowed, but it also wasn't encouraged. Like it it, you know, I think I had some friends who were girls who I brought to the house to meet my family. Sure. And my parents were had they were like, she's nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I could sense my parents were very wise and they had great discernment. And I was like, ah, yeah. I didn't know more than that. They said nice. They called you nice. They said neat. Oh no. We like her.

SPEAKER_06 52:53

So when you liked a girl, what did you do? At like 16.

SPEAKER_07 52:56

At 16? Uh I think T9 texted her, you know, old phone. Uh sat next to her at church a couple times, you know, we would hang out. But yeah, it wasn't. I also had a lot of I remember my mom, her her late relationship talk or like her encouragement, or not encouragement, it was really a threat, was just sort of like, hey, if you get a girl pregnant, you're gonna have to move out and support her. I was like, Yeah, okay, hey, I'm 15. Okay, yeah, so I had this I had this, oh, it worked. It worked. I just had this fear of like if I was hanging out with a girl and I was like, I gotta go home. I gotta go home. You know, because I just feel like if I kissed a girl, she would get pregnant.

SPEAKER_06 53:40

Yeah. That's how much.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 53:42

Like, I don't even really understand how this works, but I do know if I even think about her, she'll be pregnant. There's danger. Yes, danger here right now. There's like, and you know, we grew up in the purity culture and all the things, man. And you know, I think there are some things that came out of that, maybe some good and maybe not so good things. Purity rings and commitments and commitments that we could not keep. But I appreciated the the people calling us up to a life of celibacy in terms of waiting until you're married.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:14

But I feel like without a lot of honest conversation and training and and setting us up, it was almost like don't touch, don't touch, don't touch. Without when you do get freedom, because we were talking about this, like when I got married, man, I was kind of I was a clam.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:29

I'm used to like I'm used to don't touch, don't touch, don't touch.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:33

And it was hard.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:36

For the first little while, I don't I don't even know how to interact with my wife.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:39

Because no one really showed me what intimacy with someone like that should look like from a wholesome standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:48

Um was it the same for y'all or were y'all is like, man, we in here now. We we we we have no inhibitions once that wedding ring is on. Were you did you feel free?

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Yeah, for me I did because I was 35. So I mean you know, you start like talking to your married friends after a while and they're like sharing yeah stuff with you about marriage too, you know. Yeah. I'm not saying I knew everything, yeah, but also I feel like my husband had been in uh rooms with people where they were having like healthy conversations about sexuality and and whatever. And um and so he kind of helped me see just even as we were dating, like some of the that the ways that purity culture maybe damaged my and I'm thankful that they told us, you know, yes be um celibate or absent until marriage. I'm thankful for that.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

But um just like when the conversation would come up, the nervousness that would come with that, that comes from purity culture. Right. Don't even talk about it. Yeah, just stay away from it. Yeah, yeah. Which now that I have a a kid, I mean he's 16 months, I'm like, I'm gonna use your parents. I don't want him doing it either. You know what I mean? But I have to I'm gonna have to let a lot of that go.

SPEAKER_06 56:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Um and trust the Lord with a lot of stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:11

My wife is really good. She just bought a book that she's been reading with them about body image and how God made us and God made us in his image and he made our bodies to be honorable and to be honored. Both you and and I was just like, man, that's that feels healthy.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:28

Like before you get before you even get to sexual conversations, like your body is not something you should be ashamed of.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:35

Um because there's so many people at our age that are still ashamed of their physical bodies, like in in really sad ways.

SPEAKER_02 56:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 56:45

Um has anybody ever I I don't know of anybody at like our age who was like, you know what? I was taught uh dating well and I dated well and I married well. You know, I I don't know what happens between 13 in marriage that I don't know. It's you you take off and you uh some people crash, some people kind of stumble, and you end up arriving in marriage, but it's like well, what did you do? Yeah, you you didn't get a lot of guidance, yeah, but you didn't get a lot of direction, but somehow you manage. Um I don't know, what is that? What is that? Like even with my kid, you know, you're talking about we're trying to teach our kids, and I'm like, hopefully, the hope is that our kids listen to that advice and stay with it.

SPEAKER_06 57:38

I mean, honestly, I'm kind of nervous that whatever I'm doing with my kids, they'll be like, I can't believe my parents did that. They talked about the body so much. We didn't even deal with, you know what I'm saying? It's almost like we can overcorrect too. Yeah. But you gotta remember, man, the 90s had the AIDS uh epidemic.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

They did.

SPEAKER_06 57:52

I mean, sexuality in the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:56

Like you go back and watch 90s movies, particularly about sexuality, it's crazy. Like the stuff that's on TV is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Right.

SPEAKER_06 58:04

So it was a very sexualized culture.

unknown 58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:06

And I think maybe our parents in the church was kind of put trying to push back against this very loose They were and uh honestly uh dangerous culture that says sleep with anybody you want to sleep with and you'll be fine. Yeah. Um, we also weren't talking probably about abortion that much then.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

Right.

SPEAKER_06 58:22

I mean, this it was just a different day.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

And so we were talking about nothing.

SPEAKER_06 58:25

Nothing. So I look at my parents and I look at the church, I'm like, they were probably trying to do the best they could to raise a kid in a culture that was overstimulated sexually.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:35

And I get how their reaction was, you know what, don't even, don't even think about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:41

I'd rather you be a clam than out here sick or have a baby or making a bad decision about your body.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

I'm gonna be honest, I'm with that.

SPEAKER_06 58:49

And as a parent, I'm like, yeah. Cause I mean, we're not perfect people, but we're married. We have kids. We made it through that time, and yeah, we have to grow still. But I'd rather I'd rather be in my seat than have five kids with different women or have a disease I didn't have. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah. I guess I'm saying, even with movies and all the things, I'm like, there is a benefit to growing up in a situation that was protected.

unknown 59:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:18

Because I heard someone say the other day, this is me sometimes. I wish I had a better testimony, to be honest with you. I'm like, I wish I God delivered me from definitely feel that way sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

I wish when it when you watch the applause that they get.

SPEAKER_06 59:30

Yeah. Man, you were doing what?

SPEAKER_07 59:33

You doing what?

SPEAKER_06 59:34

With who? Wow. Wow. That's awesome testimony.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

That I'm over here like well, I mean I mean, you can make something up to one. You've seen enough.

SPEAKER_06 59:45

Dang, I disobeyed my mom. I did disobey my mom. I had a bad thought about ice cream one day that I really super.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Definitely you can make something up.

SPEAKER_06 59:53

When the truth is, we are as dirty and filthy as any bass in the world. Absolutely. But culture hasn't made our story. My point was, I told somebody, I actually confessed to someone, I said, Man, I feel like my story doesn't have much value because I grew up in church and I didn't really do anything crazy that the world would say crazy. And this person said to me, Your testimony is a testimony of protection.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:15

Of God's keeping power.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:17

God has keeping power to keep why would you why would you want to go through fire and celebrate that when you can celebrate that God kept you from the fire?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

And I think people need the full spectrum of the story of God's redemption. That He can do it all. Yes. Because everyone's coming from everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

And I think the people who didn't try things are wondering and live with this. Um do I really know?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Do you know what I mean? Right. That that may be the the doubting thing that we wrestle with at times and have to lay before the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:55

Yeah, is my faith really real?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Is your faith real?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:58

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

You know? And I think the we need that full story. You know.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:05

I was thinking, I'm like, man, I 20 years from now, if our kids sit in seats like this with microphones and cameras like this, and the topic is about dating, I hope that what they've heard me say is spoken of well in this context. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's the same thing with my parents. Like I remember my dad sitting me and my brother down and just telling us, you know, the only woman that I've known is your mom. The only man that your mom has known. And yeah, you know, at the time being young, being like, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:45

Um, but I'm like, oh wow, that's what a what a beautiful testimony to just go, this is this is what this is what I did.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:54

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is what I advise.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:58

Yes. You know.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:59

Um and that's a story you want from your parents. Right. Like you're not when you're like, man, I wish my dad was sleeping around. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want that story.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:05

My dad back in the day. Yeah. Rolling stone. There's there's this, there's uh yeah, the the the testimony of protection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even then I'm like, okay, I hope I hope that I could looking at my, you know, you look at your kids and you're like, man, I hope that I could communicate in this short time that I have with you, yeah, a sense of the that you can see in my life. Yeah. The beauty of of marriage and family and parenthood and childhood that uh that I that you can speak well of. Yeah, you know. Because I can speak well of my parents. That's beautiful. And even the things that my parents set up dating. Yeah, we're talking about, yeah, they I wasn't allowed to do this, but now I'm like, that they were right. They were right. I didn't miss out. I didn't I didn't miss out. I didn't miss out is crazy, Shama. Because I mean, for a long time, you feel like you feel that you do. I want to watch that. I want to do that, I wanna go there. Wow. Everybody's going.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

Everybody's they got drunk last night and partied, but they look fine.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:05

Yeah, they look fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

They look like they're having a good time.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:09

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think the hard thing is balancing gratitude and not being self-righteous.

unknown 1:03:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:16

Looking down on people because they have a story or because they got drunk last night and are still doing what they're doing. Yes. But still, man, I'd rather have this story. Right. Yeah. Right. And I I feel like I there are a lot of people maybe who have been silently ashamed of a testimony of protection.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Yeah, that's really good, DeWine.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:36

They've just been like, I can't tell my story because it's not dirty like somebody else. Yeah. And the truth is, like I said, all of our stories are dirty. The hidden things that I've never spoken are as nasty as someone who went out there and did it. Yeah. Jesus said, You think it in your heart, so are you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:52

And so it's not a matter of we are holy, they're not holy, or they're better, and their testimony we're worse. It's just a matter of thank God for Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

Thank God for Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:02

In whatever way he framed our story, whether it was I kept you from the fire or I brought you through the fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:08

Both are glorious testimonies. And I hope people have more courage from our versions to be like, I'm not by myself. Yeah. And maybe my story has value. And maybe I should tell, maybe we should have more people stand up in church and say, actually, I've never been addicted to drugs.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:26

And actually, I I don't have any kids outside of my wife. And my wife is the only woman I've ever had sex with. And the church says, Hollow.

unknown 1:04:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Oh, God, just that wasn't in my mind. You're not ready for it. I wasn't ready.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:39

You're not ready for that kind of celebration. You know what I mean? It's like that's very true. That story should be celebrated.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:44

Not my story, our story.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

That's good.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:46

That God has kept us. Growing up as you know, being church kids and then growing up, was there when you got to college and you got to do the things that you were looking forward to? Was there ever like, because I remember the first time people were like, oh, we're going, go to a house party, or we're going, and I went, and I remember being like to an actual house party.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:07

Yeah. Like, this is it. This is what y'all been trying to get me.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:10

You know, hey, you want to drink this? Yeah. I don't even like it. I'm going to be straight up. This is not good. This is trash.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:20

I remember the first time I was at, I was at uh I was in California with some friends working on a project. They're like, we're going to a club.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:26

We're going to a nightclub. And I was like, I mean, okay, I've never been. Yeah. And I went. And the whole time I just thought, I can't believe this is it. Yeah. Like, I didn't in my mind I thought, ah, yeah. Bring it until 4 a.m. No, I just the whole time it was so. I'm like, I've had more fun at in church context. Yeah, man. Well, that was that was my next question. Smelly, the floor is sticky. It's dark. That's what I'm saying, man. Expensive. I hate all these drinks. That's what I'm saying. I'm hungry. What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

I yeah. I I think that the enemy wants to convince us that his version of fun is better than God's version. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:11

And I think one of the downsides of Pentecostal Holiness Church is that we didn't use the word fun enough, even though we had it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

Yeah.

unknown 1:06:19

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:19

Like I'm curious, like, what did y'all do to have fun? Because so far we've been like, this is what we could not do.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:24

But what did y'all do for fun as kids that didn't leave you as with a hangover or a kid? It's okay to say nothing. We did nothing. We were no.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

I mean, my mom's was she sent us outside a lot.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:40

Water hose.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

And we listen. We grew up next to a cow pasture until I was 14. It was so beautiful out there. So like outdoor stuff, TV, food.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:51

Like stuff you'd have to pay to get an Airbnb and drive out to see. You lived next to.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

Now that I'm older, I know that for a season in my life, we did live in a spot that was just so beautiful like that. Yeah. Because there's mountains. It was just really pretty scenic. But um now that yeah. But I'll say that in my twenties, um, when I got older, I just did, I would just like buy some roller plates. Yeah. I would um We did skating a lot too. Yeah, I mean, just stuff.

unknown 1:07:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Just stuff that I thought was movies. I love movies.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:27

We had a lot of fun just at home. Me and my brother would just make up songs and plays and all of those stupid stuff. Or basketball outside, or I mean, my parents would be like, just go outside.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:40

And we ride bikes. I mean, again, it sounds simple and maybe boring, but no, that's what I want for my kids. That's how I'm judging it now. I'm like, if I'm raising my kids, go outside, make up a song. Make a that feels like fun, that has life behind it. Yeah. And so, yeah, man. I had friends that I saw every day.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:59

Mm-hmm. Like that to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

And neighbors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:02

Yeah. Like the idea of having somebody who's not your sibling. You know, your siblings are nice. Yeah. But a friend that you're like, hey, let's hang out again tomorrow. And hey, I'm done. Where are you? Let's hang out. Like that to me is such an incredible. Because the friends I have now, you know, when you're adult, you're like, hey, but what are you doing in three months?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:20

Right, right.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:21

But yeah, that to me was just an incredible blessing. Like that was so much fun. Yeah. Like the fact that I I had several friends that we knew each other and we loved each other. We loved hanging out.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:31

And I think we all knew I remember when I moved in, I was moving back to the States for college, like like, oh, this this is it. Like we're we're never gonna have this kind of time again. And then I I re I remember realizing like how special that was.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

That's so self-aware.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:45

Yeah, like man, man, like this we're adults, we're going on to adulthood.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

Yeah. That's beautiful. Um, we only have a few minutes left with you, though. You gotta come back. I didn't I didn't get to ask about how you got say in the field of the Holy Ghost and spoken tongues. I didn't get to that story.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:02

So we'll do that next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:05

Um really quickly, I want to know like favorite singers. Because no, seriously, you're one of the most I told Kyle the other day, um the guy that produced your Kyle Lee, guys. By the way, she just recorded a live recording here in Nashville, y'all, these songs.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

Swan wrote on it.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:25

Oh, it was fun. It was fun. Kyle produced the record, and I told him the other day, you have to have so much fun producing a doe vocal. You have you can there's no ceiling or basement, there's no tone limitation, and backed by the Spirit of God is like I saw you sing. This is when it opened up for me. You sang for Tommy Prophet's Christmas.

unknown 1:09:50

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:51

Um, Christmas show. Was it Oh Holy Night? Or was it what was it?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Hark.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:55

Hark.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:56

Y'all it reminds me a lot of Cece Wannins.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:02

Cece Wannins is one of those people, she can she's a gospel singer, but she can go to the White House, and we're not ashamed.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:09

There's some other gospel singers who like not the White House. You're gonna embarrass us at the White House. There's an elegance, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

She's a legend. She can go anywhere.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:22

She can go anywhere. She's like a hey come here. You can't go there. We love your voice. We love your song. Stay in church, baby. Stay in church. You know what I mean? Like, some people haven't, they don't have a ministry. I'll put it that way. They don't have a ministry outside the pulpit or the church. You have an elegant illustry, a voice that transcends but still honors the church.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:46

So I'm curious. Like, who are people you look up to as a singer? What are your musical inspirations? What are you inspired by musically? Just tell me something about that before we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

I mean, my mom and dad made sure we listened to everybody. So growing up, it might be Crystal Lewis.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

It was Kim Burrell. Yep. The Clark Sisters. Yep. Um, do you remember um Sayla? Yes. Some of that was in there. Um you know what? I have to say this about Brooke Ledgerwood. Ledgerwood, right? I'm about to talk about you, girl. The first time I experienced her was on YouTube. She was opening up for John Mayer. Really? On a big stage when I used to do these YouTube dives and find artists. Wow. And she was singing Summer Over the Rainbow and doing all of these runs. Really? I was like, who is I'm telling you? This was Brooke Fraser.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:40

The flags, Brooke, which by the way is a great record.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Yeah. And so then all of a sudden she pops up at Hillsong and she's not doing all the runs. She's placing things intentionally to give each song what it needs to live and do what it's supposed to do. And that meant so much to me as a vocalist. Was watching someone who could, but knew that she didn't need to right there. You know, and so I learned so much from that and her texture. And then, you know, you just like, and today we have so many amazing vocalists, even in pop, and they came to church, like Yebba.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:15

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Uh, and her tone. Yes. And so, yeah, I just kind of I like the walls.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

What?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:24

Yeah. What's what's the oldest son's name?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

Uh, Daryl. Congrats, Daryl, on your Grammy. He got a Grammy. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:31

Oh, with PJ? Was it with PJ?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:32

Yes. They want a Grammy. Daryl is congratulations.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:36

Freak.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

What? He's not from here. We're gonna find out that he's they came from Area 51.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Yeah, all of them, all the walls are really incredible. Um, but your family is too. You came from a singing family.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

My family sings, they all play, my brothers produce. Dad writes. Yeah, I mean, it just yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:58

So when you were coming up, y'all sang around the piano all the time?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

All the time. My dad was like like during summer, we every morning at 9 a.m. we had to be downstairs for prayer. And you could not come down and just be like covered up in your blankets. We were gonna play before the Lord. So a lot of our songs um came out of moments of prayer. Wow. Yeah, I think that's what really taught me songwriting is know is seeing how easy it was.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:27

Wait, so y'all would write songs in prayer time?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:30

Absolutely. Because sometimes we didn't know what we were gonna sing in that moment. We would just like start playing and then just like you just would sing what you would say to God in another setting. Wow. You know, that's what songwriting is. Yeah. Really, you know, what do I want to say? Okay, let me put that to a melody and and make it compact.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:50

And you know, what a great dad, man. Yeah. Set y'all up in the presence of God by writing songs of worship.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:56

That's like and my my brothers were young. When they were young, my mom would just give them pots and pans and chopsticks and let them be loud. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm.

unknown 1:14:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:07

Have you seen any music in your son yet? Is he is he he loves music?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

Oh.

unknown 1:14:13

That's hell.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:14

Is he here?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

Yeah, he's here.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

Is he here? Shiloh.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:18

Can I please bring? Do we have five minutes?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

Shiloh.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:24

Shiloh on cue. Orlando, is Orlando here? Please, please, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Hi, Shiloh.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:34

Please. Come all the way up here. You can go to mom first. You can go to mom first.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

So funny. Oh just bumped this up. Hello.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:44

What's up, man?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:46

I'm good. Good to see you, man. Wow. Hey, babe. This is perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:52

Yes. Little man. We were just asking about you.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

Microphone. Can you sing?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:58

He's looking at me.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

He's like, what am I doing up here? Yeah, he loves singing. He loves to sing.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:06

What's his name again?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

Shiloh. Shiloh What's up, Shiloh? His favorite song right now is ABC's.

unknown 1:15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:12

It's a good one. ABC's. He likes all the lights and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

He's wondering what is happening here.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:17

Oh we're raising you up.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

Yes. Come on now.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:20

Why do I always shake my hand when I'm about to do it?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:22

Yeah, I'm surprised he's sitting so still. Look at him taking the mic. There you go. He knows what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:27

Come on, Shiloh. Can you sing for God?

SPEAKER_07 1:15:32

Like, you don't know. We're like, we're scaring him. Hold on.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:35

We don't know these guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:37

Oh. He's incredible. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

He's so special.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:43

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:44

What is what is one thing that God has taught you since you've had a son?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

You know, um, he brought back a piece of advice that a random parent gave me when I was pregnant. And he told me, don't try to fix yourself through your kids. And because you'll injure them just like you were injured. And I just, I have realized that as I'm raising him, that I'm like waiting to see these characteristics about myself that I don't like so I can fix it. You know what I mean? And so I'm dealing with the oh, I'm dealing with all of those things. And um, so it's just causing me to just find another level of even like self-forgiveness or receiving God's forgiveness toward me or acceptance, self-acceptance so that I don't, you know, injure him trying to fix myself for him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:39

I've never heard that before. That's really, really a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:43

I have never forgotten that. And I know that I'm new new, you know, so I know when he gets to teenage, it's gonna be a whole other thing. But I feel like God is dealing with me about that right now. Poor God.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:55

He's got dimples.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

He has dimples on both sides.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:59

He's warming up. Look at him.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:03

Oh. Thank you for joining us, Shiloh.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:05

Say thank you. You're ready for him to go.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:07

No, no, no, no. Okay. I'm like, this is like your debut. Y'all are on the People magazine, though, weren't you? What y'all?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

Oh my gosh. Yeah, their their website.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:16

That's amazing. And you deserve it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

That's his song.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:22

You gonna sing? This is your chance.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:24

Uh he's like, you gotta set it up with my people. Yeah, where's my music? Where's my music? Will this help? I'm gonna turn it down so I wanna hear him.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

No, scare him.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:35

You need you need some talking? Look, we'll see, let's see if it's out of the out of the mouth of babes. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:44

Sing, Baba.

unknown 1:17:48

For God.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:55

He sing Shiloh. You don't know nothing about that. We hadn't put him in that environment just yet. You don't know nothing about the kids. He's not Kojick. No, he's not Kojik.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:08

I took my kids. First of all, shout out to Mount Zion. We are in Mount Zion's church here in Nashville. Shout out. I brought my uh kids to Mount Zion, the main location. They had never experienced black church. I lead worship at a majority white church. So I was like, I'm gonna take y'all to a black church.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:24

And yes, and uh so after I was like, they had to have a lot of this. What did y'all think? They said, it was long and loud. That was their critique. Mount Zion, I love y'all's church. My kids don't like black church.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:41

They don't know nothing about it just yet.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:42

And we had church too. It was a great service. It was long and loud. Doe, thanks for being here. You're the best. Shalom, thanks for joining us. Yeah, oh yeah, we're done. Yeah, this was the climax. You can't beat that. Can't beat that. Hey, you can check out um Doe. She just recorded a live record that I'm sure will be out very soon. We'll link that in the description. Um make sure you check out choir room if you want to be a part of the choir. Um, we gotta have you at the choir room, Doe.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

I sent my email in because I want to be in the choir.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:10

You gotta come in the choir.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:12

Um, we'll also have a live uh recording of our podcast here pretty soon. Tickets will be below. Uh, thank y'all for joining Grown Up Church Kids today. Shamma, thank you always for being here. And uh we're gonna have some songs. You wanna sing some songs?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:25

Yes, I want to sing some songs.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:27

We're gonna sing some old songs from back in the day, and I think a brand new we got to write that we wrote. We got to write that song together. So make sure you check out those songs as well, and we'll see y'all next time.