The Ping Pong Ball System: How to Gamify Chores & Teach Kids Economics

The Bottleneck: Parents are accidentally raising entitled kids because we forfeit the teaching of delayed gratification for the ease of instant rewards. We buy the toy to stop the meltdown, fundamentally breaking the system.

The Blueprint: In Episode 1 of The Parent Tap, we sit down with Heidi Bonfonte, an award-winning economics teacher with 38 years in the trenches. We skip the fluffy financial advice and extract the exact operational frameworks she uses to teach kids the realities of scarcity, negotiation, and earning their keep.

If you are tired of battling your toddlers (or teens) over chores and impulse buys, steal these exact Standard Operating Procedures for your household today.

The SOP Breakdown (Chapter Markers): [00:00] The 500 Happy Meal Rule (Handling Meltdowns) [01:35] The Biggest Financial Blind Spot in Parenting [07:10] The Parent-Teacher Communication Breakdown [11:54] The Blueprint: Enforcing Delayed Gratification [15:01] How to Build a Negotiation Matrix with Your Kids [18:41] The Financial Gender Gap: Raising Girls to Advocate [20:31] The Ping Pong Ball System: Steal This Chore SOP [26:48] Lightning Round: Crypto, Free Weekend Systems & Gamification [38:06] Host Debrief: The Operational Takeaways

The Action Step: Heidi spends thousands out of her own pocket to support Title 1 students. If you are an Arizona resident, you can help fund her classroom and offset your tax debt dollar-for-dollar through the AZ Earned Income Tax Credit. (Insert Link to her school/donation page here)

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Transcript

The Toy Store Lesson That Changes Everything

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I remember my my my middle child had the biggest temper. And I remember standing in a store with him one day and he says, I really want this. And he was getting ready for a meltdown. I said, Okay, that's fine, but then it'll cost you 500 happy meals. And he went, What? And I said, Well, I can get this for you, but the next 500 happy meals won't happen. And that put him into perspective, and he went, Yeah, I don't need it that badly. You know, we got to teach our kids that you can't have everything all the time because it's not reasonable, but it's also there's a bigger principle, which is delayed gratification. Nothing wrong with delayed gratification.

Meet Heidi Bonfante: 40 Years Breaking the Money Cycle

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Today I wanted to uh look at the financial systems because I was looking at your LinkedIn and most of us just seem to be dropping the ball. So my guest today is Heidi Bon Fonte. You're an award-winning economics teacher. You build programs to teach literacy and you actively work to break the cycle of poverty. So welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Thank you. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah, yeah. Did I get that whole intro right?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yes, got that right. I've been doing this since high school the corporal. And honestly, if we're not moving the needle on student achievement, and I mean for all students, then when the heck are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah, no, that's great. I love teachers. Like I said, I was a former teacher, my wife was a former teacher, so we're all you know, pro teachers, definitely. I don't know. Yes, no, I love it. We just we couldn't do it. So we have a special place in our heart for those who still do. Yeah, so uh my first question is this. So when teachers walk into your classroom on day one, what is the most glaring financial blind spot? I'm just kind of I'm just kind of curious, like what you know, that's that's that's a loaded question. I mean, what do you see? Like, what it what is even parents, students, like anyone that you associate with.

What Poverty Actually Looks Like in the Classroom

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Well, okay, in fairness, I used to be at a college prefatory where some kids were driving cars worth more than my house. And now I have been for the last 15 years, I've been teaching at a public school where 100% of my kids are on free and reduced lunch. And I I guess the best way to describe the culture shock is I remember being in the cafeteria one day monitoring the lunch line. And I saw this young man jump into line, get some stuff, put some stuff in his backpack, and then a few minutes later he got back into the line. And I thought he was up to something. I didn't know what he was doing. So I pulled him aside and I said, Sweetheart, can you please explain to me what's going on? You know, first of all, food's not supposed to leave the cafeteria, and I saw you put a whole bunch of stuff in your backpack. And he said to me, he got really quiet, but then he finally owned it and he said, Miss, this, you're right, this isn't for me. This is for my sister. And I said, Well, where's your sister? Well, she's a uh student at another school, but she hasn't been able to attend because she's pregnant and she's been very, very sick. And if I don't bring this home to her, she's not going to be eating. And I thought, holy crap, I feel like the worst person on the planet for assuming the worst. It is a definite shift. What I see, and I understand that we have a supposed fair funding practice in Arizona where all the money goes into a pot and then a certain amount is allotted per kid, depending on where that kid attends school. But what I see is I see some schools on that side of I-17 who have $400,000 endowments. And then I've got kids over here who are taking duct tape to their shoes so that they have shoes to come to school. So I'm not so sure that I buy the story of equity and funding. I don't see that. What I do see is by and large, and we were just comparing notes ironically in the in the teacher workroom today. Uh, we were talking about how much money did you spend last year since we're all working on our taxes. How much money did you spend last year out of your pocket? And I would say I think the winner was $7,000. She spent $7,000 of her own money out of her pocket. That is something that I've been trying not to do. So I average right around $3,000 a year out of my pocket. That can be for any number of things. I had it over the weekend, I had to go buy lined paper. There was an order for it, but it takes four to six weeks to get something in. So I went and bought as many reams of paper as I could afford over from Staples. I brought in my used cartridges and picked up the difference with my own pocket money. Um, so I do that quite regularly. It could be something like that. It could be something like providing fresh produce for my kids so they have something to snack on when they come in for tutoring after school. It could be this kid who needs $200 for her dual enrollment tuition, but parents can't afford it. So we'll pitch in the money. You just you never know what's going to hit you. And you don't look at this kid and go, well, that's too bad. You don't have any pens, too bad, so sad. You provide what they need, and you cannot assume that that kid's life is like your life was. That is probably the number one fallacy. I mean, I've got kids living with grandparents, I've got kids who are sofa surfing. I've you just don't know what you are part parent, part social worker, part teacher, part career counselor. You wear all the hats. I don't know if that answers your question, but it is probably the most real answer I could give you.

Why Parents Aren't Teaching Financial Literacy (It's Not Their Fault)

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah, no, totally. I understand that from coming from uh taught at a Title I school myself. I also taught in um North Phoenix, where you know there was Phoenix school at the time, Phoenix Coyotes players on the uh parents that had students there. So I've seen the wide spectrum of the economics involved. Uh I guess I one question, like a follow-up question. What do you think parents, and I know they're coming from different backgrounds, and some are more affluent? Uh yeah, more affluent and you know, have more uh just a better upbringing, right? Probably, you know, you do you compare the duck, uh the students that duct tape their shoes versus the ones that you know have nice cars. So is there something that you think that parents are just like failing to teach students at home, especially you brought that one up that spent $7,000 last year? That's gotta be a lot of money for teenager. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Well, it's not just, I don't think this falls squarely on parents' shoulders. I think by and large, with some exception, parents are doing the best job that they literally know how to do. But, and here comes my econ cat, when it takes a two-parent income in order to make ends meet in an economy that is unrelenting. I understand that, oh, you forgot to go buy a three-ring binder and some plot some supplies for your kid when you're working the night shift. I get how that happens.

The Parent-Teacher Communication Breakdown

SPEAKER_02 6:59

But I think one of the most critical things I have seen, and I've been at this now for nearly four decades. Think about that. I mean, I've been teaching longer than some of my parents have been alive. I think the critical difference has been I see a lack of communication between parents and teachers. I see that parents have in their head, and I say this as a mom who's raised now six children, three from scratch and three that were given to me. I think we used to do a better job of communicating with each other. It wasn't us versus them, it was we're in this together. And now when I reach out to a parent, the first they bristle, you can hear them bristling where they hold their breath. And I'll have to say, he's not in trouble, or I'm not calling because she's been a problem. I'm calling because. And then they'll relax a little bit. And usually they're extremely surprised that I'm calling because I might say something like, I've noticed, I'll just make up a name. I've noticed that Annie has been extremely tired. Her grades have slipped from A's and B's to C's and D's. I'm just calling to find out what I can do to help because she seems a lot more nervous than she's been lately. And it runs the spectrum of anything from we haven't been at home because we're afraid of immigration. Or it could be, well, dad died. Well, I have had plenty of kids whose parents have died before the school year is out for various and sundry reasons. Or it could be something more banal, like they are simply working the night shift because they needed to pick up an extra job. So things are really difficult for everybody across the board. But what I guess I'm saying is with all these extra responsibilities, and trust you me, it's not just parents who are picking up the extra jobs, it's teachers as well. I work two jobs. I know most of my or many of my teachers here on this campus work two jobs or are looking for a second job. It's really difficult to me to communicate if you don't have time to make dinner. It's really difficult to raise children. I know this is gonna sound really mean, but it's really difficult to raise children if you're just trying to get food on the table. So we're living in, I hate to say it because holy cow, can we please stop living in historic times? It's really difficult to be alive right now, make ends meet if you're not independently wealthy. And so I don't, I don't fault anybody for this breakdown in communication, but I've seen more of a us versus them mentality, like they're trying to keep information from us because they think that we're gonna do something nefarious with the information. It's very, I don't even know, it's very isolating and it's very disheartening. We're in this together. We both love your kid. We want your kid to do the best job he can do or she can do. We got to do this together.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Right. Wow, that's a great answer. So communication breakdown, it seems like that is kind of the big, you know, the big answer. But there's a lot of obviously like circumstances and things that go into it that makes it very, very complicated to get down to the root problem, I suppose. And so I want to kind of bring this back to my my world right now because my kids are young. I have toddlers right now, two toddlers. And but I'm thinking about as they grow, and this could maybe make that connection. So, how do they what do we need to start modeling now so they grow up with a healthy relationship with money? Like, what would you be what would your advice be for parents with maybe younger younger children right now going through the uh the stages of growing up?

Rule #1: Nothing in Life is Free

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Well, I mean, as number one rule, nothing in life is free. And I don't think it's a problem for little guys to learn that too. Uh, we had a reward system when I when my children were younger and I was raising them, we had a reward system. You do chores, you get marbles, X number of marbles equals X number of dollars. You end up getting not pocket money, but you can call the shots and say what it is you want when they were very little. I think honestly, in the absence of a physical person parenting a child, I think we have a lot of parents who feel extremely guilty that they are not able to give of themselves or give up their time. And so as a result, I think they use things in place of parenting or in place of time. I'm guilty of that too. And I don't want to say, hey, I'm buying my kids love, but I might feel guilty. So I might say, yeah, that's fine. Let's go get that Nintendo Switch that you wanted to get. Well, that's really nice, but how does that first of all, it doesn't replace the parent because nine times out of ten, that kid just wants to spend some time with the parent. Number two, it doesn't teach anything about like work for what you want because nothing in life is free. And honestly, my answer basically is I don't think there's anything wrong in delayed gratification or letting kids work for what they really want because it teaches them more than it's more than just money management. Delayed gratification is an issue that we're having with every generation, not just kids. And so if they know, you know what, this is really cool, I'd really like to get this for you, but this is not in our budget right now, it's teaching them to be okay with it. You can't have everything all the time. I mean, what's the number one rule in economics? Scarcity forces you to make decisions. And I will tell you, I remember when my kids were extremely little, and I remember my my my middle child had the biggest temper. And I remember standing in a store with him one day, and he says, I really want this. And he was getting ready for a meltdown. I said, Okay, that's fine, but that'll cost you 500 happy meals. And he went, What? And I said, Well, I can get this for you, but the next 500 happy meals won't happen. And that planned into perspective, and he went, Yeah, I don't need it that badly. You know, we gotta teach our kids that you can't have everything all the time because it's not reasonable, but it's also there's a bigger principle, which is delayed gratification. Nothing wrong with delayed gratification. How many people get into trouble right now? How many celebrities do we have out there who get in trouble because they think they have the rights to certain things because they've never learned that just because you see it doesn't mean it's yours. Just extrapolating here, but you get the idea.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

No, I love that. That's a great answer. I you know, I'm going through it too with my kids where they want everything, and um it's tough. How old are you? Uh I have a one-year-old, he's almost two, and then I have a four-year-old that's almost five. She's more of the that's the tough one, huh? Yeah, that's the one that it's tough because we try to win her. I wouldn't say win her over with love, but you know, we try to reward her for stuff she does around the house or at school and incentive programs where it's like, oh, you could we'll get ice cream or like you brought up McDonald's or

Why Teaching Negotiation Early Is a Game Changer

SPEAKER_00 14:00

things like that to sort of like motivate her, but but it does fall into this trap where she's like, if we don't get something from Amazon, that's for her. She's wondering like why we didn't get her anything. So we're trying to like break away from that. My daughter has autism though, so it's a little bit different, maybe of an understanding. But yeah, I I don't want them, like you said, I don't want them to be entitled or kind of expect something at all all the time. And you know, kind of like you said, you gotta work for it. And I think that's a great um kind of character building to instill into children while they're younger, so that they grow up, you know, not feeling like they just deserve the whole world and they can just have it right now, you know. The delayed gratification definitely has to come into effect.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

And it doesn't change when they're four, and it doesn't change because of autism. I think this is an issue that we all have, you know. I think every age group has this issue, and and I honestly believe in negotiating. I think there's a fine art of negotiation, and I love teaching kids how to negotiate. And so I carry this in my classroom with you can negotiate anything. If the culminating thing is an essay and you're like, no, miss, I could do it like this. My rule is you can negotiate, but the rule is never negotiate in front of others unless you want to lose, because you will lose. So the they know they have to come in on their own time, have an intelligent discussion with me, and win me over to their way of thinking. And so I've had kids instead of doing an essay, which doesn't mean you're gonna get out of every essay, I've had kids put together videos like a PSA, and it taught exactly the same standards, but it also taught them something else, which is advocate for yourself, rip open your mouth and speak your truth and show me your thinking. And I think we need to do that. And I would say to you and your little ones, sit down and negotiate rewards, sit down and negotiate expectations. Like I would do a chore chart for every single kid, but it was a negotiation. All right, Daniel, tell me what five chores you want to do this week and be responsible for. Those are your chores, nobody else gets those chores, and it could be something easy like I'm gonna walk the house and pick up any items that are out of place and I'm gonna put those items away. Cool, that's your chore now. Another one would say I'd empty the dishwasher. All right, cool. Now the other side works too. What would you like as a reward? Well, I'm gonna go to Bookman's, all right, cool. I want to go to skate country, all right, that's fine, but we would negotiate both ends, both the work and the reward. And isn't that real life? When you sit down with a prospective employer and you're negotiating a salary, that's a give and take. And we need to teach our kids negotiation.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's a great answer. And um, I exp I appreciate you expounding upon that and really kind of explaining how we how we could go about that even with children that are younger, kind of creating that system as you know, be before they get even to your classroom where they have that those principles in mind, and they again they they come to you where they're already kind of prepared for the economics of the world. One thing I did notice, like on your LinkedIn, is you created an after-school program for women.

Are We Teaching Boys & Girls About Money Differently?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yep. Money is that something that I okay. And well, that that was not my program.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

I'll be honest. That is not my program. That is part of a program called Invest in Girls through our it's the Arizona Council of Economic Education. They came to me and said, We're piloting this thing. We'd like to know if you'd be interested in participating. I said, Absolutely. The idea was that there are certain industries, finance being one of them, where when women are completely underrepresented. And what I discovered was many of us, girls or boys, don't even know those jobs exist. And so we spent an entire year doing this boot camp where they actually were out there with people in the field learning those professions. So it was an incredible experience. But I've created a lot of these different things. Right now, we're working on a personal finance course. We're in year two of the personal finance course, where they will earn the Arizona Seal of Personal Finance, which is quite unusual. We had 21 kids get it last year, and we I think we had more than all of our sister schools combined. So it's important. I if it wasn't important, I wouldn't be taking my time on it.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Shit, that's awesome. Um, I just I was quick, I was curious. Like, is there do you feel like there's a difference about how society talks to boys or girls about money? Like, or is it all the same? I just I kind of had that question because I'm a girl dad and I'm I'm also a boy dad. So just kind of curious if there's a difference there between the genders.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

It's completely different. And I I remember like this is like Stone Age talk, but when I got my first real teaching job, I remember my then principal saying, Well, yeah, of course this coaching position pays less, but you have a husband, so that'll be fine. And I'm thinking, this is not the 1950s, dude. How how do you get away with that? Um, and I think that's part of it is is we I don't that going back to that art of negotiation, I don't think that we teach girls to advocate for themselves when it comes to money. I think we teach them to get along, I think we teach them to be nice, but we don't necessarily teach them to advocate for themselves and open up their mouth and say, No, I I don't go with that. If you're paying the male faculty $1,500 for the stipend for coaching privilege because by and large, even though it isn't really the face of America anymore, we have so many single parent households being led by women. How can we do them this disservice? So I honestly think we need to teach our girls to do a little bit more negotiating for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yeah, yeah, totally. That's good. That's a good that I love how you put that because that that puts it into like a visual for me, like how I can actually, you know, what the differences will be in terms of the genders uh with money and and society and all of the um complicated matters with that. Um

The Ping-Pong Ball Chore System (Try This Tonight)

SPEAKER_00 20:23

I wanted to talk because we talked on LinkedIn and this is how I actually we connected was uh your comments on your own kids and the kind of the the parent hacks or the systems or however you want to uh phrase it that I want to steal like the ping pong. Would you would you mind talking about the ping ball ping pong ball system?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

How I came up with that. I just I guess I'm just a really big kid. I'm just a real old fart big kid, but I I try to make things fun, both in my classroom and at home, because I figure if you're laughing, you're learning. And so what I did is I got a big container of ping pong balls, and on each one I wrote a chore, and some of them were really, really easy, and some of them were a little bit more complicated, would take more time. But I put all the ping pong balls into this ping container, and then usually one kid would put the container on his head and we'd randomly pick a ping pong, and we'd have to run around and do that chore really, really quickly, and then come back and get another one because you wanted to collect as many ping pong balls as you could, because whoever had the most ping pong balls after a specific amount of time, let's say set a timer for 30 minutes, they were the ones who called the shots for what we were gonna do, whether it was go to the park and play Pokemon, play a board game, go get an ice cream cone, whatever. Whoever had the most ping pong balls got to pick what we were gonna do. And it just was fun. And we'd play music and we'd run around like crazy people, and and we try to get the most ping pong balls, and I would participate as well. And so they would say, Mom, that's unfair. You have a head start because you already know. And I'd say, okay, fine, I'll give you a five minute handicap. And I'd sit there for five minutes while they ran around like crazy. But it was the engagement, it was the fun of it. And so we got a lot of stuff done. Was it done well? Probably not when they were six or seven, but they learned and they were engaged and they were involved. So that was just a fun game that we I love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

I love that how you brought fun into chores and and and it sounds like you inst uh you know incorporate that in the classroom too, where your students are, you know. I found from being a former teacher when they're having fun, they're learning and they're actually gonna remember that activity. And and so that is a great thing. I'm gonna try to um establish here in my household because you know, my four-year-old does not like to do anything unless you gamify it, unless you make it like a race or you know, something where she can beat you, you know. Um, so yeah, that that that's a great one. I'm gonna kind of uh seal if that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

And then no, seriously, have her come up with some of the chores.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Have her negotiate some of those. Anyway, just an idea.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah, no, it's cool. I I love it, and um it's such a fun thing, you know. It's probably a great memory for your kids that you know they probably even still remember uh to this day, right? Now that they're in their early 20s. I just yeah, and then yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was curious, like, you know, the dynamics, how they how does it change as your kids get older, like you know, out of the school age and past high school, perhaps college, like how does it how does the dynamics of parenting change? Just I mean, I know that's a very complicated question,

Parenting Teens? They're Just Taller.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

but it does and it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

I mean, I've always said to like my seniors and my juniors here in the high school class, like one day I was frustrated with my upperclassman, and I said, Do you know what the difference is between teaching you guys right now and the kinder sports that I taught for a year? And they go, No, miss, tell us. And I'd say, You're just taller, and they'd laugh. I'd say, Well, let's see, you still enjoy scratch and sniff stickers. If I give you a treat, you're gonna do anything in the world. Like, I have a treasure box in my classroom for crying out loud. It's full of little tiny toys and it's full of little candies. And man, if I say the first five finishers in the smoke app challenge get something out of the treasure box, holy crap, are they focused? They are just in it. And honestly, the only difference I would say between my own children right now and when they were younger is probably the difference in their payouts. Like my son, who is well, all three of my last three children still live at home. They are college age, they're attending college. And so, like, my middle child is probably the number one person who does this, but he will negotiate rides specifically because he's not driving, uh, specifically for chores. So he knows if he wants me to take him out, I don't know, 15 miles away, he's like, I've already emptied the trash, I've already taken that, I've already taken all the stuff out of the car, whatever. He'll tell me ahead of time, well, I've already done these three things because I know that's the currency for getting a ride that's 15 miles. So they understand nothing in life is free. And so I have inculcated them with that idea, and they know that it everything happens for a reason, but everything has a price. So if you're asking me to spend half a day shuttling you around, well, that's gonna cost me time. So, what are you gonna do to quote pay me for my time? And it's not cash, so you're gonna have to take some work off my hands so that I can make that happen for you. Again, negotiation.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Totally love it. Uh, do you mind if we end in with some lightning, uh rapid lightning round go for it kind of questions, answers, and then at the end, I can, you know, we can plug your school if there's a way to like donate, or maybe like even in when I post the video and edit it in the comments, I'll definitely mention a way to like you said, funding is always an issue where for schools and give I'm sure tax dollars or something like that people could give or help out, yeah. Perhaps, or something like that. I am I am in Arizona, yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

So it that's kind of a

Rapid Fire: Bitcoin, Bad Advice & What Kids Actually Buy

SPEAKER_02 25:52

earned income tax credit, allows anybody in Arizona as a single person, allows them to donate $200 as a tax credit, which means that they use it, they can actually offset their tax debt, or if they don't owe anything, they usually tend to get it back dollar for dollar. So that's always something really wonderful around here because we give the CLEP test and it costs roughly $100 per kid to take the CLEP test, but they get back 12 to 19 credit hours for that $100 contribution. So that is so totally something that we could help out with, and that would benefit our student population tremendously.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

So that's just yeah, absolutely. Like anything to help, you know, again, as a former teacher and someone that's gonna have kids entering this the public school system here pretty soon. Um, I definitely want to help any way we can. And you know, it's always something that kind of near and dear too. So okay, rapid, rapid uh lightning round. All right, uh, because I know you got to go here shortly. You've been teaching all day, you're tired. Sorry about the technical stuff. All right. Question one, and I'm sure teenagers, this might be some sort of hot topics, but Bitcoin cryptocurrency is that a necessary part of teenage education today for economics, or is it kind of a distraction in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 27:09

I I would include it because, like any other security, it is still a viable option, but it goes into diversification. So you do have to teach them that because think about that kid who committed suicide over Robin Hood. If he had had knowledge, he would have known better. He would have known that this is not a bill that he has to pay. So I think we do our kids a disservice by not teaching them this.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah, that's a great point. The second one is I don't know if you can see behind me, but I kind of have a hobby with 90s pop culture, whatever. I was just curious, do you see like a trend with your students of like investment or things that they're buying? For instance, when I go to the malls, I see like those little kiosks for like the Pokemon or uh the little, I don't even know what they are of uh items.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

They spend more money on non-tangible things like skins for games, different features in games. I heard somebody say very well, we don't actually own anything anymore, we just rent it, and it actually has become disdainful. Like kids are starting to pick up. Damn, my music's not mine. I just get to borrow it while I pay.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

So they're really starting to get annoyed at subscription level stuff. And I've I think that's part of the reason why we're seeing a return to vinyl because they actually want to own their stuff, they're tired of renting stuff, and I can't say that I blame them.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

That is a good point. I just threw away all my CDs from like high school. I know. I'm like, why am I keeping these? And now I'm like, yeah, and then it's like you're getting the we're we're paying for stuff I already bought in the past to stream it. Yeah, no, I I I get that too, and I I feel that frustration. I think we gave away ease of like we we basically just forfeited everything that we had for ease of use, and now it's just like all the subscription prices are going up, and you have to have a subscription for everything, and it's like yep, it's out of remember when when you were a kid, you would save up all of your money so you'd go get that video game you really wanted.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Oh, yeah, but once you had it, it was yours, right? Yeah, video games are now free, but if you want to do anything in the video game, you have to pay. So they're actually really raking kids over the coals for either their money or their parents' money, they don't own this thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

There was this little puzzle game my wife and I played when she was pregnant with our second kid a lot, and it was free. So that's how sometimes they get you in with the free or or very low cost games. Oh, you want to put the upgrades, you have to buy the upgrades to beat certain levels because it's like you don't have enough stuff, and it's addicting because you're like, Oh my gosh, I need to spend $20. Like, I swear, I spent probably $20 on the game buying upgrades, and I'm like, why am I doing this? But I could totally see my teenage self getting addicted and caught up into that um a lot easier, you know what I mean, than a grown adult. Uh okay. What is the most overrated piece of a financial advice parents still give high schoolers? Do you see one?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Or well, I gotta say, I don't think too many parents that I know of are giving their kids advice. Um, I really don't think so. Um, I do see a lot of dangerous borrowing. Like I know that there was a teacher back east who got into trouble for taking his kids on a field trip to a payday loan place. Um, they don't understand some of them, the cost of borrowing. There's a reason why the military says you are not allowed to borrow here. And I think they take a lot of risks without understanding the risk. And I think part of it might be my population. I have a few undocumented and they don't understand their rights, and they're afraid to stand up for their rights because they're afraid they'll be tossed out or somehow incarcerated because they're here without documentation. But I can't tell you how many kids have come to me and said, Miss, I'm not gonna be at school tomorrow because I have to help my parents move because we're getting tossed out, and it's a house that they've been renting and they have no legal recourse. So I don't see my parents giving too much advice, but I do see both parents and kids making decisions where you and I would just sit there and cringe, and it's because they don't think they have any rights or protections from these vultures. I don't know what else to call them. It's predatory, predatory behavior.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah, wow, that is that's deep, and that brings me back to again teaching at Title I and having the dynamic of student, you know, you have a student in your class one day, and then over the weekend they're gone, and you're not sure what happened. Yep, and then you're getting like new students all the time. And so I I feel for you that's tough to teach in, and you know, students got sent home cans on on the weekends and things like that because of the low income. And so it it's tough. That's tough to teach in, and that's a tough environment to sort of be in because I don't know. I still feel for those kids, you know what I mean. 10 years later, I'm

Best Free Family Activities (No Amazon Required)

SPEAKER_00 32:04

still like, man, you know, when I want to complain about you kind of take it on, you kind of take it on your shoulders, and all right. So, last last question. I don't want to like, you know, again, I don't want to go over the time here. I'm sorry. We have okay, so we're both in Arizona, which is very cool and ironic that my first host is or guest is from Arizona. Um, so what is your absolute favorite cheap or free family weekend activity in the valley? Do you and and also do your kids live here or yeah, they do because they all live in the house.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Take away.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Okay, um, okay, so my favorite thing is to pick names. And I know right now my kids are like, Oh god, mom, there's nothing to do in Phoenix. But what, especially when they were a little bit younger, but even so now, what we'll do is I will put a random name generator on my phone. We all get in the car, I'll pick a name, and we'll say, Okay, Daniel. Well, Daniel gets to pick what we do for the next two hours. It could be something like, Okay, my favorite thing is go play hide and go seek at Indian Steel Park and go play Pokemon Go. All right. I love doing that. That costs no money, but you're out there and you're running around. You could pick anything. Like one of my kids always picks a different board game. So we'll sit there for two hours and eat snacks or play candy poker and just play for a couple of hours. And the rule is everybody has to participate, nobody can abstain, and nobody gets to complain. And when that person's turn is up, we go on to the next person. And you can get as creative or as silly as you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

My goodness, I love that. I love like you're very creative and you you come up with great ideas to not spend a lot of money because I don't know what you, but the impression I get is every time I leave the house, it's like a hundred dollars, no matter what I do. It's like go to the stores, a hundred dollars, go fill up your cars, a hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

So it's it's I cried last time when I filled up, yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah, yeah, it's gone up a lot, and so it's it's very intimidating to think like, oh, we can do anything. And it got so hot here in Phoenix, too, where it's like it's not really nice to go out either right now. So yeah, I do feel like you know it's great to think of you know some cheap or free family activities to do. That's still fun, everyone's having a good time. The kids won't know if you're spending money necessarily, right? They're just having a good time, right? They're not thinking about the money aspect, perhaps. So I think that that is a great thing to think about with parenting because sometimes I get in this trap of like, oh, we have to like go do something that costs money because that is going to be more fun, but it's not necessarily that way.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Oh, balloon volleyball in the living room. Are you kidding me? You can come up with a that's why I told you earlier, enlist your kids and coming up with rewards because they might surprise you. Like, we've had water balloon fights in the front yard, that costs only the money for the bot water balloons. That's it. You don't have to spend a lot of money to have fun, and again, I think it's they want to spend time with their parent, they want their parent to notice their existence to actually invest time in them. And I'm not faulting parents because I know how hard it is to be a parent. I'm raising my kids by myself, it is expensive, but fun doesn't have to cost money. Fun is just about being creative at your age. With your kids being the age they are, go get some cheap shaving cream and let them have fun. Like I actually had a room that I emptied out and just had shaving cream, and when we were done, we mopped it up. The place smelled great, and they had so much glass, so much fun. And I just literally picked them up and put them in the shower and housed them off. It doesn't have to be expensive to be fun.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, no, totally. My my kid a lot of times, like it's funny, like you know, for Christmas or whatever, their birthdays, they get boxes of toys or whatever, and it's like they they play with the boxes more than the toys more than the toys sometimes. You're like, why am I why are we doing this, you know? Um, yeah, so kids will just kind of have their own imagination, have fun with it. Yeah, that's a great principle. Like, you don't have to spend money to have fun, and I think sometimes, like society with all the commercials and all the ads and all the stuff you see out there, it's like you gotta get this. But yeah, I mean, sometimes it's like the best memories I have as a child is you know, doing things that were in the backyard, playing around in the dirt or playing basketball outside, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Go get a whole bunch of different size boxes and build a fort. Yeah, give them some markers, let them decorate those boxes.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Totally, yeah. No, you have some great, great ideas. I love for I love your ideas here, and I hope that this can help like other parents going through the same stuff, no matter where they're at in their life, whether their kids are raised or whether they're still raising their kids. I I think it's great to talk to uh parents of all backgrounds and experiences, especially as a teacher. And thank you so much for sharing about your experiences. And then, like I said, we'll follow follow up after this. And if there's any if there's any link or something to your school where we can donate or help out the cause with PT, I don't know if you have a PTO or PTA or whatever, but anything like that to help the students, I would all be for, you know, kind of sharing the message and hopefully getting that out there and making sure that we're funded and you know, you're it's not coming out of your pocket because I know how that is as a teacher.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Sometimes the money comes out of your own pocket, and it's like sometimes it's rough because yeah, every number called to the car by my by my tax preparer who says, You need to stop spending this money. I'm like, Yes, I'm aware. You say no to my students, please. I can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, yeah. No, it's tough. It's tough, and if it it falls on it feels like it falls on your shoulders, and it's a tough situation because like good teachers, I think, do you know what I mean? Like, you kind of have to there are babies, man.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Exactly, but there are babies, and you you've been doing this for 40 years, you said 48 years almost.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Wow, we have an episode.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Do you do you have plans to stay a lot uh a lot longer, or are you as I told my boss, I'll stay until it's no longer fun. That's a great question. That's a great answer to a question. Um yeah, no, totally I love that. And let's stay connected on LinkedIn and

Key Takeaways & How to Support Heidi's

SPEAKER_00 38:04

welcome back to the parent top. Wow, that was a great interview with Heidi. She had so many good nuggets of not only like economic, uh sense and finance uh background and and great tips and trips on how to uh tips and tricks on how to engage your uh children. Um if you're a teacher, engage your classroom. Um teacher uh students and your children about financial literacy, um, and just about the communication piece, the breakdown that that that occurs at the school level between parents and teachers and any stakeholder really. Um it was was really enlightening. Also, one thing that did stick out to me was the dynamics between uh boys and girls and how our finances are different and society uh societies roll into that. And my big takeaway from this, honestly, was like you don't have to spend money to have fun. Like be creative with your with your kids, be creative with your students if you're a teacher, but uh you don't have to spend a lot of money. Like you you can find creative ways. We talked about, you know, building forts or you know saving the Amazon boxes you get from your deliveries and letting the kids play with those, or I mean, there's so many things you can do um that doesn't, you know, require a lot of money. And I know we're all kind of up against it right now with how much things cost and the subscriptions that we talked about in this program and gas prices and you know the the the rising uh fees that we have in our life. And um I think that's one way to get around that is really like let's uh let's be creative here, let's have that delayed gratification, let's not uh give our our kids everything at once um because they have to work for it, right? They have to trade in for those 500 hamburgers, uh, so to speak. So I love that. Heidi um was great, uh a great guest. Um I'm gonna follow up with her. Let's see if we can help her out with the the the tax write-offs or giving money to the school to help out those students. I know from personal experience being a teacher that money is coming out of her pocket to pay for things in the class, supplies, parties, um, those those innovative and creative uh games that she comes up with. Um and so with that being said, like I think that students need to have teachers like that. And it would be a damn shame if teachers like that got retired. You know, she said she's gonna step down when she's not having fun. And what really like, you know, paying things out of your own pocket with the rising cost of everything, and she just raised she raised six kids, you know. She's got a lot going on, and so let's support, let's help her out uh as a community, the parent tap community, but also let's learn from her and and her nuggets of advice. And so I applaud you, Heidi. Thank you so much for your time. We we spent like an hour, we had some technical snafuos, and uh some of the audio wasn't great, some of the video wasn't great, but you know what? I think that the nuggets of wisdom will really go far away, helping us all with our kids and being better parents. So thanks again for watching the Parent Top. Please like, subscribe, share with your friends. I'll be on for the next one, and I'll see you then.