How to Stop Overreacting to Your Teen’s Mistakes

Most parenting advice you see on social media is complete garbage. In this episode of The Parent Tap, Ryan McDonough sits down with returning guest Kurt Bush—executive coach, former pastor, and father of two teenagers—for an unvarnished conversation on what actually happens when parenting defense lines fail.

From teenagers finding genius Apple loopholes to download Instagram, to speeding tickets on the kitchen counter, Ryan and Kurt break down how to stop "going to 11" and build a resilient relationship with your kids that lasts well into their adult years.

🔥 KEY TOPICS COVERED:
• The Shift in Mindset: Moving from "how do I stop my kid from messing up?" to "how will I show up when they do?"
• Circuit Breakers for Dad Panic: How to catch physical tells (hot ears, tight shoulders) and ask "What’s true?" before reacting.
• Why Phone Contracts Fail: How strict rules often drive sneaking behavior—and why erring on freedom inside the home builds better long-term judgment.
• The Power of "The Village": Why your teenagers need trusted adult mentors outside of Mom and Dad.
• Parenting from Rest: Why you can't be a present parent when you're running on empty.

🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST:
• Kurt Bush & Brimstone Coaching Group: https://www.brimstonecoachinggroup.com/
• Kurt's Book ("Live Fully, Lead Authentically"): Available on Amazon, Target, & Walmart.

🔗 CONNECT WITH THE PARENT TAP:
• Website & Reading List: https://parenttap.io/

Transcript

Intro & Catching Up with Kurt Bush

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Like most parenting advice I get is garbage. I've done a hundred of these episodes already. Most of the stuff we see on TikTok or Instagram is just absolute garbage. So, you know, like I I just wanted to have you here again because we did the first episode on the Parent Top and it was great. You have you have teenagers yourself. You were talking about the the part, you know, the parking ticket on the counter and like you know the things uh the inputs versus the outputs, uh, you know, dad life, like you know, baseball and all that stuff that's relatable to me. Um, even though my kids are two and five, I can still relate to a lot of that and you know, and and hopefully to kind of build that relationship with my kids. So when they get older, you know, they want to hang out with me, you know, have a beer at the baseball game is like you know, the kind of the end goal, right, that we talked about. And so, man, I I'm so glad, you know, I we have you here. Um bringing back Kurt Bush, former pastor, current high performance executive coach, and the father of two teenagers, man. Uh, it was such a good, fun time on that episode. So I'm glad you're back. And man, I want to talk about inputs versus outputs because we talked about that on episode one, and like I wanted to go into the deep dark territory on that. And so, you know, the smartphones, the cyberbullying, the speeding tickets, like the real world breaches that were, you know, are gonna happen with with teenagers. You know, so how do you employ the inputs framework when our defense lines completely fail?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, that's a great question. I I like how you frame it. Uh and like I'll be honest with you, my kids have smartphones, but we're pretty strict on social media. My my oldest has Instagram. My it's funny, my oldest,

Why Most Social Media Parenting Advice is Garbage

SPEAKER_01 1:30

my oldest found a way to get Instagram before we allowed it, because if you have an Apple phone, if anybody on your Apple family has an app, a kid doesn't have to ask for permission. Just a note for any parents out there. So I had the Instagram app on my phone, and then my kid, because he had an iPhone on the family network, it didn't like the all the safeguards didn't allow or or they didn't catch it. It just it just thought, well, somebody has it, so then the, you know, then every phone can have it. So anyway, he he like made his own Instagram and then we like I found it one day. I saw that he liked something, you know. Like, wait a second, who is this kid with a with a Houston Astros avatar with my kid's nickname? But yeah, I I mean all all that to say, like, I I think those moments, I I forget the language you said, but those moments when it feels like, gosh, everything we work to is is failed, or or when, when the failure happens, or when the when the thing that feels catastrophic happens, I think it's just so easy to immediately say, Well, I screwed this up, or if I had a parented better. I actually don't know that that's the case. I have a really good friend who who will say all the time, like, there's a there's there's an idea in parenting that at some point we have to shift

The Apple Loophole: When Kids Bypass Social Media Restrictions

SPEAKER_01 2:46

to say, how do we keep our kids from failing or screwing up or making mistakes? We have to shift to to how are we gonna show up when they do, because they're going to. And like that's the season that we're in is it's like I I mean they're going to make mistakes and whether I like it or not. And and it doesn't mean that I'm a bad parent. I think that that's the that's the jump of saying, like, did I do everything I could do? Like, did we do everything we could do to keep this kid from finding Instagram all on his own? Yeah, we did everything we could do, you know, and he's just smart. Yeah, kids figure this stuff out, you know? And I I think it's just a continual, like, what did I do? And could I have done anything different? And if the answer is yes, if I could have done something, something different, like I there's no shame in that, right? Like, I'm gonna get to try it again. I'm I'm gonna get to have another go at this. So I think that's the key for me is like I'm gonna have another shot. There's no need to apply shame or or buy into that. Like, I'm a bad parent because my kid did this or my kid did that. I'm gonna get to try it again.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, yeah. And so how do you like how do you handle that knowing that they you kind of circumvented the whole safe? Like, I don't know if that was a hard boundary you had, like no Instagram and no social media, but like, you know, kind of just being ingenious and figuring out, you know, the the loophole or whatever it was uh that Apple allowed him to download Instagram and use it and have an account and all that. Like, how do you handle that without going, you know, full to level like you said, like to an 11, you know, kind of getting full, you know, dad mode of just like oh like I said not to and you, you know, defy me.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah. Well, Ryan, let me tell you, I went to 11. My wife and I went to 11. We did have a hard boundary. We said, look, no social media. I mean, he was 13 when he got his phone. And I I know everybody's gonna have different opinions. I actually I don't I think 13 is a little young for social media, at least in like that's the decision we've made. Not everybody has to make the same decision, but yeah, we went to 11 and I I responded, we responded really reactively, and we're like, immediately you got to delete this account. And then, you know, we came down a little bit. And we have some we have some really good friends who have kids that are older. So like I we always advocate find those parents that have gone ahead, you know, like find a parent, uh, a set of parents who have kids just a little bit older and like use them as resources. And we went to them and we're like, this is what's going on. And they asked us a couple of questions, and you know, like, well, was he doing anything inappropriate? No, he was looking at baseball and race cars. That's what this kid does. And like, nothing inappropriate,

"Going to 11": Managing Reactive Parenting

SPEAKER_01 5:09

no messages, no DMs to strange. Like, yeah, he actually handled himself pretty well. He was actually pretty responsible. So, like, once we came down from 11, we he he we did already make him, he we made him delete the count, the account completely. Uh so we we we sat there and and you know, we had a conversation of like what what do we want? Like, what what do we want? Do we want such a hard boundary that it's gonna force him to find a loophole? Or do we want to set some boundaries and have some teachable moments and try to like walk with him and journey with him and learning and what's healthy and what's unhealthy? And so then we let him have it back six months later. We let him we let him have an Instagram and we have boundaries around it. We we're just we're really trying to get rid of the sneaking around, right? The the the wisdom of these parents that are older than us, what they said is like if if if your boundaries are are causing the sneaking, that's probably not the outcome you want. And I think that is just really sound wisdom for us. So we did go to 11, Ryan. I wish I could say we didn't. We did. We went nuclear.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

And then after some time to think about it, then we kind of came back and said, what what do we want to accomplish? You know?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah. No, no, man. I appreciate that honesty. And like, you know, I'm I'm not gonna pretend like I don't go to 11 with my kids because like I do all the time. And you know, especially in this volatile season of like dad doesn't have a job and dad's like stressed, and dad, you know, like a lot of stuff that's that's on my shoulders now, like, you know, I've noticed like I'm perturbed a lot more easily. And so my kid, you know, like not my kids, you know, the Instagram example is a little bit different, but you know, it would be like basically my daughter using a tablet when, you know, we said you couldn't use a tablet, or you know, she'll watch YouTube videos and she knows what's acceptable, what's not. And sometimes, you know, I I've noticed like she's kind of uh you know, not being completely honest with what she's watching, and there's stuff where you know, there's like cartoons having babies and stuff. We're like, what the hell is like what what is what people putting on YouTube and like kind of like exposing young kids to? And you know, so stuff like that would get me to an 11 too of like, you know, like especially right now in this in this kind of moment. So anyways, that's just uh that's just kind of where I'm at, man. So yeah, yeah, listen. So in part one, you talked about the the speeding ticket. So you you you shared the story about walking into your house, seeing a speeding ticket sitting on the kitchen counter. Yeah, you omitted your nervous system immediately ramped up to an 11. You said things you had to walk back and you had to apologize to your son. Um and like I said, like I I do that too with with with you know my my uh my kids all the time, and it's it's just kind of like you know, it's rough. But walk us through how you detached in that moment and how a dad can execute a circuit breaker on his own panic so he can res respond with perspective. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I'm I mean it's hard. I I I wish I had some sort of magic sauce or magic answer that would like in the moment would have stopped me from from like saying what I said about the speeding ticket. I I think what's most valuable, well, two things. I think first knowing knowing that there's like there's always gonna be a trigger, right? There is going to be another speeding ticket. There is going to be another something. Like I am going to have another time coming up with one or both of my kids where there's something that's going to ramp me up. I think there's some beauty in knowing what is likely to ramp me up and when when my body is starting to do it, right? There are physical tells. Uh my ears get hot, my traps get tight. Like those are physical tells. And if if I can like, if I can identify those, I can like get ahead of it, maybe a little better. Because my body doesn't like my body's doing it and I'm not thinking about it. It it's ramping up before I know I'm ramping up. So if I can, if I can find those physical tells, that helps. I I think I think the other the other thing is I ask myself a question all the

The Speeding Ticket Story & Emotional Circuit Breakers

SPEAKER_01 8:48

time. And Ryan, I'm not gonna like BS anybody. I don't, I don't do it nearly in the moment as often as I want to, but but there's a question I ask myself, and it's it's what's true? Um, and you know, that that question applies for me all the time. Like, what what's true? Is this speeding ticket gonna be the end of the world for my 16-year-old? No. Is this speeding ticket mean I'm a bad dad? No. If if I can like get to a place where I can feel those physical tells, I can ask myself a question and like honestly answer it, like that that for me is the best circuit breaker I can think of.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, no, that's great, man. And so, like, you know, going through that, and you you mentioned right, but like also like when you when you notice your triggers of like, hey, my ears are hot or my traps are tight, like what do you do when you have those physical tells? How do you sort of circumvent your own like you know, circuit breaker? Like, how do you like stop yourself from going to an 11? Uh, you know, like kind of what's the what's your own personal strategy there or approach?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, if if I catch it that early, I might actually just walk away for a little bit. Um I've had it before where like I'll literally just say, look, I can't talk about this right now, but we're going to talk about this, right? I I I don't I don't know a better way, like for me, like if if or or if I can say my wife's name's Amber, Amber, I need you to come like, I need you to talk about this with me. Like, I need to bounce this off of you. Oftentimes we're on the same page, sometimes we're not. But if if if you know I can if I can bounce something off and say, like, is this a big deal? You know, like I get to decide if it's a big deal, but if I have at least another voice in that moment to like, I can step away from my speeding ticket or my kid's speeding ticket if I can step away from that and be like, is this a big deal? Is this as big as it feels? I I think it's really helpful. But but yeah, I have so many times like said, I really want to just say some stuff. And I really want to ramp up. Because I mean, ramping up feels good sometimes, you know, having to walk it back doesn't feel great. But yeah, I'll remove myself. I'll say, like, I gotta pause. I got I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna keep going here until I can collect myself.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah, it's almost like I go Clark Griswold like in Christmas vacation sometimes where he just like loses his shit completely and yeah, the dual post is gone, and you know, and like all that stuff. Like that's how I feel like I embody Clark Griswold at sometimes during those moments, and then I walk back, walk it back, and I'm like, man, that was not the way to handle it. And you know, like so there's a lot of uh you know, humility in that and and knowing that owning your stuff and like realizing like hey, I handled that wrong. And I think, you know, kind

How to Walk Away & Ask "What’s True?"

SPEAKER_00 11:10

of doing that repair with your kids and letting them know, like showing them exactly this is how you handle situations you don't handle well in life. Like, you know, how do you kind of go about and repair that relationship? Because I I think kids will do that with their own friends too, of like, you know, my my daughter all the time will be like, Oh, so and so was mean to me at school today, and you know, and you're just like, Well, you know, like so they're always dealing with like their own relationship issues and stuff like that. And so yeah, being able to repair that, I mean, man, that's that's that's awesome, is is you know, kind of having those stories and and talking to us about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Uh yeah, I mean, I I think there's something really beautiful. Again, like I'm not a parent expert, I'm not a psychologist, but the some of those moments have been really beautiful where like I I think I think my kids would say, like, Kurt's Kurt dad isn't afraid to like say, I screwed this up. But but it's it also feels good for me too. Like I it's one thing to say the kids benefit, but I actually think I benefit more. Like there's something liberating about being able to say, I didn't do this right. I'm sorry, tell me what that was like for you. I want to hear the impact. And I'm gonna try it again next time. Like, I I think it frees me up. You know, I I don't have to carry it around. You know, we can say what we need to say, put it behind us. I I think it it's good for everybody, you know?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah, amen. I'm gonna I'm gonna throw some other questions at you. So let's do this like uh a little bit of a uh I think this question, yeah. Let's say, okay, let's say a 15-year-old, how old are your kids again? You I know they're teens and that range.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

16 and 13.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

16 and 13. Okay. Yeah. So let's say a 15-year-old completely refuses to hand over his phone at night. I know that's one of your non-negotiables, right? No phone in the bedroom, because that's you know, that's where bad stuff happens, right? So it turns into a physical standoff or a screaming match. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Like I if there's a flat refusal, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah, no, I mean just real dad stuff. Like, you know, I mean, there's no right in. So I don't think any of the time, I think like, you know, doing this show enough now. It's like there's not like a one, you know, one size fits all approach to anything. And I think it's just kind of like how we handle it. But yeah, just kind of curious how you do that. Because like honestly, my kids will do the same thing at times. My two-year-old this morning was like, no, I don't want to give you your phone back, Dad. I I kind of gave it to him because I had to get out the door, and we kind of we've been in this like mad rush this like this entire week, like getting the kids out the door because they don't want to go to my five-year-old doesn't want to go to bed, and so she's like, she she would sleep till 10 o'clock if we would let her, it seems like. And anyway, so I'm just I gave my two-year-old his phone. I know it's not a great, great parenting advice, but he had it in the car, and like he didn't want to give it back to me at daycare, and it was just like he was like telling me no and stuff. So it's almost like on that same level where I'm like, oh my god, like yeah, this is this is literally my life when he when you know as a teenager is like he's gonna not want to give me his phone.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

So yeah, I I I you know, I'll I'll answer, I'll I'll answer a little bit of that. I mean, I think and like again, I'll be honest, Ryan. Uh times change so fast. Like having a 16, 13 year old, when when when my kids

Handling the Nighttime Phone Standoff

SPEAKER_01 14:05

were your kids' age, like kids having iPads or phones in their hands just wasn't a thing. Yeah, you know, like the world has just changed a lot so quickly. So I'm I mean, I am aware, like even I, like 10 years ahead of you, have a hard time relating to what it's like to have a to have toddlers. So I I do think that's real. I here's one thing we do know, like we do have a time. Uh we tell our kids like your phones have to be plugged in in kind of a common space of the house at a certain time. And you know, summertime, we don't really care when you go to bed, but your phones have to be plugged in at a certain time. And and there, there's one of our kids, I won't say who, one of our kids will kind of resist that and push boundaries. And I sometimes we feel like we don't know what we're doing. And I think at the end of the day, my sort of parental approach is that that I get I get to set those boundaries and I get to, like, we as parents get to levy consequences. Now, consequences I think are different for every kid. I think that question of like what do you want to accomplish is an important one. You know, my 16-year-old has a car. It's like a crappy old car, but it's a car. You know, like if I'm not gonna pry a phone out of the hand, but I we probably would like restrict car usage. Like, you know, if if boundaries aren't gonna be followed, we're we're just gonna have to take some freedoms away. And and that works for our kid. Again, like if if a boundary or a you know, taking that freedom away or whatever creates sneaking around or climb out a window, I I would probably wouldn't do it, but yeah. I think that's always the balance of like, yeah, like you have to follow boundaries. Like you have to follow these rules. Houses and societies function on rules, and and like, and I'm not gonna put a rule in place that's gonna make you climb out your window at night. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, exactly. It kind of has the opposite effect, right? If you're overly strict or whatever, of like, hey, you can't, you know, go see your friends or whatever, like that. Like they're just gonna want to go see the friends, or you gotta go to bed at nine o'clock. Well, they're gonna stay up past nine o'clock. Like, that's at least what I'm experiencing with my kids. It's like they want to break, they want to test that authority and like see what they can get away with, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And I and I think like there has to be a like, I think what I'm learning is testing boundaries actually means, and again, I'm not a psychologist, but I think testing boundaries means that they feel safe doing it. I think that's what I take some solace in is like, okay, my kid feels safe enough to test out the boundaries with us. And, you know, it it is my job as a parent, or my wife and I's job as parents to like uphold those boundaries, because boundaries are good, right? Boundaries aren't going away, rules aren't going away. You know, I I I think for for every test of a boundary, there's an equal desire to know where the boundary is. You know, like I think that that like staying firm on boundaries, again, when it when it makes sense, feels like an important, yeah, an important way to like embrace, you know, like be safe in our house, you know?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was I was just laughing because I saw that location, someone's from the surface of the sun. Awesome. I missed that because they're space stone. Okay, and then there's a question that came in. So I said, How should gaming be handled when it's on so many devices? We played in the lobbies online and stayed up late too. Good memories. As this generation of gamers now have kids, how should this be handled?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I don't know. We I mean, I'll tell you what we do. One of our kids likes games and one of them doesn't. And like we, you know, like 16, you're in this weird, like you're almost an adult. Like our kid turns 17 in two months. He's nearly an adult. But kind of getting into those online games, like we we kind of drove a hard like at first, maybe you're gonna play online games. You can play online games where you can't talk to anybody, or you can play online games where you can't have live chat or whatever that is. Um, and then it kind of morphed into like you can play online games, but we want to know who you're playing with, you know, like, or you can play online games, but you gotta keep your bedroom door open. You know, like there's some of those common sense things where like all your friends are playing, and we don't want to make you like we're not gonna be the ones that say you can't play, but like we're gonna make some boundaries, like you know, time at night, it's gotta stop, keep the door open. Yeah, th those kind of things for us were were rules that that were helpful for us along the way. Start, start tight, loosen up as we go, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, for sure. No, man, I I've I've appreciated you being honest about that because like that's that's one of those hard questions of like there I don't feel like there's one right approach and you know, everyone has their own kind of a take on it, and you know, i it is so prevalent now, and you know, like I'm not gonna be a hypocrite either. Like, I'm I I grew up gaming. I you know, I still from time to time get the itch to play. Like, I know Halo's coming out like the end of this month, and I'm like, man, I want to jump back in and you know, play play some games and stuff like that. But but yeah, like it's just like you know, I don't want to like take away screens and like all that stuff because like I know it's like part of the it's part of the world now, you know what I mean? Like like you said, like everything's changed, and so I think it's just like kind of trying to stay open with them and you know the the control that we have, I think is you know, we I think we know as parents it's kind of an illusion at at some point, right? Like we can't like yeah, we can't stop like you know, that's one of the things you think you talk about, inputs and outputs. Like

Gaming, Online Lobbies & Digital Safety Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 19:07

we can't stop them from making bad decisions, right? We can just kind of do the best we can with our parenting approach and then when they do screw up, be there for them, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

I I think so. I mean I I again I don't ever pretend to be like the giver of all parenting advice for every parent and every kid, but I I do think it's I do think it's that simple sometimes of how do we show up with them in the good times and the hard times, and like are we just present? I I I I think sometimes it is that simple.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

There's another comment, play with them.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Play, yeah, play with your kids. Like, you know, my my five-year-old plays Mario Kart and she's super good, dude. Like she's getting first place and the it's like I don't know, like I don't remember being that good at Mario Kart. But anyways, like as an aside, we yeah, it's like she's she plays she plays Mario Kart, but then we all that we have the next playground, so it's like kind of like the Wii back in the day, uh, you know, where it's like you're you're moving and you're actually active and you're you're doing you're interacting with screen, you know, you're you're playing the games, and that's fun, like because we can do that as a family too and kind of get them going, you know. So at this stage, it's it's kind of like locked down. There's no there's no like the chat and stuff like that. But I know like Roblox, for instance, you know, I had an ex-fbi agent on and I'm having them next week for the to to plug the next live stream. But yeah, I was gonna say like the Roblox thing, like even something as innocent as that. And I was a technology teacher, eighth grade uh student, and we played Roblox in school, like literally in school. I had no idea that like the predator thing was even like you know, a possibility, like like just talking, having the chat enabled in those games, something as you know, as innocent as that could lead to potential like you know, trafficking or extortion or whatever, like kind of things that went on, sextortion, I think it was. Yeah. And so, anyways, just like how do you handle that as a dad, knowing that there's all those something even uh you know, as seamless as that, or honeypot things he was talking about of like how there's certain games, I think webkins, it's only for kids under a certain age, right? Well, that's a great infiltration place for like older, you know, yeah, you know, perverts, right? So, like, how do you like how do you deal with that knowing that like you're raising kids in this world that it's so different from kind of the world we grew up in, you know, and knowing that there's all these like different kind of virtual threats or you know, and then like kind of in-person threats as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah, yeah. So here's here's where I land on this. And and Ryan, again, like the world moves so fast. My kids are at the age they never asked, they never did Roblox, they never asked about it, like they're in that sweet spot, they were old enough anyway. So I like I know that's a huge thing, and we just have never had to deal with Roblox. We never had never had an a request for Roblox. But here's what I would say I I think what my wife and I have found to be super helpful is that we are the parents and we get to make the choice that we're comfortable with. If if my gut says, for example, hypothetically, if my gut says Roblox is a risk I don't want to take, I get to say no. Right. And and that might make my kid disappointed. That might make them mad. That might mean they don't get to play a game with their friends. And like at the end of the day, I get to trust my gut. Like I I think it's important to always examine the gut, you know? I think it's always important, even over time, to say, like, is this still accurate? Kind of like the Instagram thing. Like it is this still in place? Do I still want to hold that same boundary? Um, I think there was so much freedom for me to realize, like, it might not be popular to say no to something like a Roblox, but I get to. And if that's the decision that I have to make as a parent, I I get, I get to make that. Like, if that's how I'm going to be comfortable and sleep at night, knowing my kids are safe, then then I get to make that. And I think there's just power to know, like, no matter what anybody else says, or other kids or other parents, we we as parents get to make the decision that we think is best.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yeah, for sure. And there's there's definitely like some blowback on, you know, how they handle that. You know, teenagers maybe say, you know, they they don't like like even my five-year-old that say, I don't like you, dad. Like, like she called me mean today. Okay, literally, I brought her plastip popsicles. I was just at the store. I'm like, I'm bringing you popsicles, huh? Like, you know, like I'm not that not dad, I'm not the kind of dad, you know. Like, I just I like to do cool shit for her and and you know, kind of make her day. And she said that was a highlight of her day, but then she said I was mean like five minutes later for some I think because I said that she can't swim with her without her floaties because she's only five and you know, it's a safety thing. And so it's kind of the same thing where it's like I'm the bad guy in that instance, however, it's for her benefit, it's for her overall good, right? Is to make sure she wears her floaties in the pool. Like in Arizona, that's a very common thing, like drownings and and all that. And that's never gonna happen to me because I grew up in that environment where on the news you see that happening almost a daily occurrence, and so it's like, no, that's not happening. You know, we got the fence installed, we got the kids always wear their floaties, and we're very, you know, on guard when they're when they're around water because because we know it, you know, it can only take a couple minutes. But yeah, man, just it's kind of the same thing where where it's like, you know, you're you're you're trying to be the bad guy in that situation almost, but you're doing it for the benefit of them. Yeah, we got a question coming in. Let's see, how do you define being present with your kids? Is that as a father figure, a display disciplinarian, a friend, or all of the above? And does that definition shift as the kids get older? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah, that is a really good question. And thanks for thanks for the question. Sometimes I use words like present and forget that this is not like a this is a coach word. So thanks for the question. Yeah, I I certainly do think before I answer present, I do think it shifts over time. Some of the best advice I got was I've ever gotten about kids was over the course of a kid's first 18 years, there's a shift from like, you know, toddl need discipline and direction, right? And and like healthy discipline and direction, or like a caveat that. But then over the course of time, that shifts now from like discipline and direction to now getting closer to 18. I'm gonna do a lot more cheerleading, right? I'm gonna do a lot more like encouraging. So I do think presence shifts. So, you know, presence, I my kids are very different. I I have one very structured introvert kid. I have one very kind of artsy extrovert kid. And you know, I think presence as a toddler was, you know, one of my kids, I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna color with her. I did not like imaginative play. I did not love toddler years. Like, if I'm super honest, I did not love like the the the let's imagine we're playing this game. I did not like it. And and I got to choose, like, I got to choose to do it. I got to choose to paint. I got to choose to, you know, uh if if I'm if I'm like reading a book, I like to read. If I'm reading a book and a kid says, hey, do you want to come draw with me? Like, yeah, I'm gonna draw with you. I'd rather read my book, but I'm gonna I'm gonna draw with you. You know, I always want to be careful. Like, we all have jobs, we all have careers, we all have this kind of stuff where like, you know, we we we just can't always do those things all the time. Like we have other demands on our lives. But you know, those moments where I as a as a parent get invited to do something, I I just am probably gonna say yes most of the time. And and then, you know, as a teenager, I think what that looks like then is, you know, it's summer break right now. I have kids on some trips here and there, and I'll have one kid home, one kid gone. And I I try to find something to do with one kid. So

What Does Being "Present" with Your Kids Actually Mean?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

one one of my kids and I, we went to like a sprint car dirt track race near us. And then the other kid and I went to uh went to uh, you know, a movie together. You know, just try to create those spaces where where literal presence is happening with no agenda, no teaching, no learning. You know, I'm I'm not like trying to impart wisdom on them. It's just I'm gonna be with you and ask you how you are and let them share what's on their mind. And I I just presence is so like as a teen as they get to teen years, I think literally just being with them and letting them kind of run that space is is how I would define presence.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, dude, that's awesome. And so, you know, I want to get into this uh other thing here. So a great, great, great answer to that question because that was kind of a hard question. Um Man, Armand, there's some softballs out there, dude. Like you're no, these are great questions. Uh you know, how do you get into uh, you know, let's say your your teen does something, you know, like let's let's say they get into more of the serious stuff like sex tortion or sending a photo, they regret the shame, you know, keeps them quiet, something like that, where they get themselves in a hairy situation. I know when I was younger, like I, you know, like it would do stuff. My parents would be like that they just they couldn't believe, you know, it was like, I can't believe my son's doing this kind of thing. And so I get that from the parent perspective, but also it was like definitely a very shameful thing of like, oh, you know, I printed photos on the internet, or you know, like it was like back in the day where it's like, you know, we didn't have the access to what people do now. So, anyways, but yeah, it was kind of one of those situations. And so, like, uh, you know, how do you teach a 15-year-old or your teenage your teens that age get the the skill of saying, uh, you know, like like how do you teach them that there's a no-judgment zone and like you know, they can come to you if anything goes wrong, you know, if they get themselves in that kind of a sticky hairy situation, such as described.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, I I think this this is where like this is the the sowing of the reaping of the presence, right? I I think when I talk about being present, I literally no agenda, but the agenda quote unquote agenda is like I'm I'm trying to build a space where where they can be them, right? We we've we've not had you know knock on wood, we we've not had this experience yet where there's this catastrophic thing or you know, this this sending pictures, inappropriate inappropriate pictures. We we've not had that yet. I I don't assume that we won't. I actually assume we will. I I actually assume every parent will have something like that at some point. I I we spend we spend so much time, again, like owning when we ramp up to 11. We spend so much time listening. We use the language listen, listening for impact. So so if if we lose our cool with our kids, I I I don't just apologize. Like I'll ask them what was that like or what was the impact of that on you? Like I'm I'm intentionally building, like, tell me how you felt about that. And and and like not like I'm not I'm not gonna respond and though, like I'm just gonna receive what they say. And yeah, like this is like 13 and up, right? Like really hard to do with a toddler. But all those moments in my mind are are moments that I'm like planting seeds

Sextortion, Shame & Creating "Third-Party" Mentors

SPEAKER_01 29:25

to say I care and I'm safe. Here's here's the other thing, right? Like, I I also know, I know from my own experiences, there are just gonna be things that I'm not gonna that my kids are not gonna tell us. We have a we have a couple that we have a couple, again, this couple that has kids a little bit older than our kids. We've known these people for 20 years. And there's a story on how like we've lived in multiple parts of Iowa together, like accidentally. And we've known them for 20 years. They've they've seen like they held our kids as newborns. We we have intentional, like we we have pizza with these people once a month with our kids and with this other couple. And we tell our kids if you can't talk to us, or if you're angry with us, or if you can't, like if you can't bring yourself to be safe with us, like these people are your people. Like we we have a running joke. Like, if you're gonna run away from home, just run over to these people's house. And and I think they would. Like the the the wife of the couple was a Sunday school teacher for our kids. They've been a part of milestones in our kids. And I I know like we're incredibly lucky to have that. And not everybody has that, but trying to find like it is important for us to say, like, if you can't, if you can't talk to us, here is here's who you can talk to. That feel to me, that's equally as as important as like creating a safe space.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Dude, that's that's powerful, and that's great advice. Um what about like when you handle the peer pressure of teens and and you know how bad actors can kind of take advantage of that sometimes? How do you kind of teach your your teens to say no uh without feeling like they're burning social bridges or gonna sense FOMO?

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah, it's a great question, Ryan. All these good questions. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I again our our approach to this is to say um that there's going to be a time when they make the wrong decision. So all of our teaching is is not based around like, here's the right decision, make it.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Because again, I think that leads to like, you know, no, I'm gonna rebel, I'm gonna make the opposite decision. We we try to talk about like, you know, how do you want to be? Um we we try to like vaping is a big thing, right? Like, I I'm not gonna try to be all self-righteous about vaping. I whatever. I'm not here to like rail on vaping, but you know, a 16-year-old boy, like vaping is kind of the topic, right? So we do try to like tell him, like, do you do you understand like what this could do to your body? You know, like like do you do you understand the like the actual physical con like we do try to have those conversations to be like truthful and like how do we educate a 16-year-old? Like there are consequences to actions. And like, how do you want to be? You know, like how do you wanna be? You know, we we we talk about addiction, whether it's vape, alcohol, pornography, whatever it is, like addictions are real and we don't want him to get to be, you know, 18 or 20 or 25 and not have any idea that like addictions happen. So then the question is like, how do you wanna be? Like, do you want, do you wanna like, like, do you wanna fall into that accidentally? Do you wanna like, I don't know, do you do you wanna go in unaware to some of these things? Yeah. And again, like this is great for a 16-year-old. This would be horrible for a 10-year-old, but but but we really do just try to ask, like, how do you want to be? Like, what's gonna make you happy? Peer pressure's real. Like, at the end of the day, you go home from whatever you're doing or whatever, like, how do you how do you wanna be? How do you want to look back and say, I'm proud of that or I'm happy with that?

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

My my daughter, and I just have to bring this up because she's she's got this crush on this kid in her little I guess it's pre-K class. But yeah, I was like, she was like telling me how he did something at school, and I was like, Riley, would you do that? Would you jump off a bridge if he jumped off a bridge? Kind of that, you know, like that's what my parents would tell would say me. So I had to say it, you know, kind of like gotta gotta get it out and do it. But she's like, Yeah, dad. I was like, wait, what? Like, you're not supposed to say yes, like no, peer pressure is bad. Like, don't do that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, she's

Vaping, Peer Pressure & Asking "How Do You Want to Be?"

SPEAKER_00 33:13

over the moon for that guy right now. And so she's less she's literally learning Spanish because he speaks Spanish as a second link. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, she's falling hard for this for this kid, and like she's making us watch movies in Spanish and she gets she's getting upset and we watch stuff in English, and why was I why am I not Spanish? And like, you know, I'm like, hun, like I I don't know, like all these questions I can't answer. And so, anyways, it just kind of reminds me of that on like a very like obviously different level, but kind of the same uh format.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, you know, we we we know some people, I I know some people. Uh I'm just I'm gonna say I know them. I'm not gonna say these are friends of ours, but they we know some people who have made a very different decision that have said, if our kid makes a bad decision, we're gonna like cut them off. You know, like we we know some people who who have have some kids, teens that made a decision they didn't like and they said, look, you're right, like you can't live in our house. And and I think my wife and I have just made a decision long ago when when our kids were toddlers. Like at the end of the day, like we want a healthy relationship with our kids. Uh, like when they get to be 18 or 20 or 25, like the most important thing for us is that we can we can at least have the foundation of a healthy relationship. So when they screw up, like that's the lens we use to think about how we're gonna interact with them.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah, I can't imagine cutting your kids off. Like it doesn't matter what they do. I don't know if anyone out there in the live chat can relate, but I think you're most most probably most of you are parents or have been parents, um or you know, obviously had parents. But yeah, I mean, like I I don't think like that's the that's ever the s you know, again, I'm not an expert of anything, but like I just don't feel like that's the right I don't know. I don't know what it would take to get me to like yeah that same. I I don't even want to think about that, you know, that possibility because it's like your kids are, you know, as much as they screw up, you know, and as mad as you can get at them, like there's still that that love and that like you do anything for them kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Still my kids.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, right. There's still little you running around and you know, doing things and you know, kind of like that's just what I see when I look at them. I'm like, and then this is kind of like me as a little kid, or you know, kind of like my wife as a little kid. You know, it's just like how do you not love that and embrace that and and want to change their behavior? But I I don't know. I the cutting off thing is that's just so harsh. There was a question that came in I wanted to get to, because like uh said, how important is it to have a community when raising kids?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

I I am biased and I'm gonna answer this gently because I understand that community is hard to come by, but I in the gentlest way, I would say I think it's absolutely vital. I I I I think back to having toddlers and I mean ha having a community of people that that we could pick up a phone and say, Hey, my kid has a fever, how do I know when to go to the doctor? You know, and I know like the internet does it, but it's different, right? It's different. Yeah, it is. It is. You know, having someone that we could call and say, Hey, my kid just like ran into the corner of the coffee table. How do I know when to like think about stitches? Yeah. It it or or like, hey friend, or hey neighbor, or hey, whoever. I I'm at my wit's end. I just need an hour. Can you come like sit with my kids? I I think this stuff is so important. And I think as kids get older, I think I think it gets more important. And and I want to say that really gently. And I I don't I don't want to apply any shame to anybody who doesn't have a community like that. Because I again, I know it's hard. I can't imagine parenting a 16 to 13 year old without other people to say, what the hell am I doing? And then if if nothing else, to have someone say, Yeah, we're doing it too. Man, I'm not alone. Like, I don't suck. You know, like this is this is okay. This is normal. Um, I think community is just so I mean, even apart from the stuff of like, if you can't talk to us, talk to them. Like, I think that's vital. But even just like a support system, and I would even say outside of family, too. Like family's great. We're we're not super close to family. Our closest family is like six hours away. But but sometimes I think community that's not family is just as important as a a family. Again, just to be able to like, you're not alone. The this whole it takes a village thing, like it's cliche, but I think it's true. Um it's cliche because it's true.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

I just wrote that damn thing on my notebook. I was like, takes a village, because I was like, yeah, like shout out to my family on this call because I know like a couple of you are here and the the support that like offered, like for instance, her aunt came in, um, or not her aunt, but my my daughter's aunt, um and my son's aunt, I suppose. It's both of their aunts,

Why You Need "The Village" Outside Your Immediate Family

SPEAKER_00 37:51

right? But yeah, she came in and you know, like uh stayed in this little space here and you know, kind of like helped with the kids, like did did things so I could take a little bit of a break or you know, kind of do things that you know, sometimes I don't get to do and whatnot. And so like that's super helpful, or you know, when the grandmas take them for a weekend, that's super helpful, and that's a big reason we live in you know where we live. And just things like that, like you know, the family aspect is it does a big thing of like my wife and I can actually have date nights occasionally, or my wife and I can actually like you know, kind of have some downtime to do what we want need to do. Cause like honestly, as a parent, like I'm just constantly like, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, I gotta do this, I gotta like I feel like the genie from Aladdin sometimes, like, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? You know, like I don't know if like how do you guys handle that with your wife and your relationship and you know, with your support systems? Is that as essential, you know, to you as it is to me? Like time together with with my yeah, just like you know, taking time for yourself, but also for each other and like you know, throughout the chaos of you know, your your your children's busy schedules and all that, like how do you how do you kind of handle that and and go about go about that with your support system and and everything involved there?

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah. This this might be the most controversial thing I say, right. Um I I don't know that I can parent well if I'm running on empty, right? And and part of like resting and you know, again, not to be cliche, but like to fill my cup. Like I have to be, I have to be with people. Like I have to be with that that support community with friends. My wife and I play pickleball a lot because we're old and you know, that's what I guess young people do it too, but yeah, so people my age do is play pickleball. So, like you're not old, man. Thanks, thanks, Ryan. You you have to say that. You're a gracious host. Like, we we've always we've never been great about like putting something on the calendar. We we always said we should, but we never did. Uh, but we were we're not afraid to say, hey kids, we're gonna take off and have a night, or we're gonna hang out with these friends tonight, and it's just gonna be the adults. Again, coming from this place of like, I can't parent well. Here's how I would say if I was talking to a leader, like a business leader, I would say it's best to work from a place of rest instead of collapsing into rest. I think the same is true for parenting. Like I want to parent out of a place of rest and wholeness, not just like collapsing one day because I'm out of gas. And and I think I I just think that's important. I think it's important to guard and and I get it can feel selfish. Like most of us feel selfish doing that. I wouldn't ignore those feelings, but I also would push on those feelings a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah, man. That that's that's a beautiful answer, as always. Um, you're definitely not old, man. Like you're you're definitely you're not. Pickleball, pickleball's fun, and like I I play pickleball. There was one show we were watching, it was like pickleball is the fastest growing sport in America. Um it was kind of a funny, yeah, like it is though, right? Like it you're seeing my my daughter went to a jump park for her birthday, and like right next door is a pickleball place. And then my my uh mother-in-law and uh her her boyfriend were talking about like hey, we're gonna like you know, go play pickleball and our or maybe that was my parents, I don't even remember. But and then I wanted to ask you one more question before we kind of get into like what you do and kind of like you know, kind of like uh tell tell people about your your business, your book, and all that stuff. Um the the digital autonomy, so like how do you teach your kids like you know, imposing this the the strict rules that

Parenting Out of Rest vs. Collapsing Into Rest

SPEAKER_00 41:13

that we do, perhaps, you know, like no Instagram, for instance, but like as soon as they you know turn 18, like you know, they're kind of just gonna do what they want to do, right? So, like how do you coach your teens to develop their own internal compass and those digital, healthy, healthy digital habits?

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. Thank God it's it's a work in progress. I I don't know. There's part of me that wonder like chime in on this too. Uh there's part of me that well, let me back up. I I think when when our kids got phones, we we had them sign a contract. And in the contract was here's what's expected of you, uh, here's what this means. Like we we made them pay a little bit, you know, like we we made them pay a little bit of the bill. We, you know, we we put in there like we can pick up your phone anytime we want and look at anything we want. Like we have complete access to your phone. We have to know your passcode. Like, there's never a time where mom and dad can't pick up your phone and look at anything. Like you have no privacy, right? Um, and and we we made them sign it. And there there were even explicit consequences. First offense, second offense, third offense. You know what that did? It made them hide a lot. Uh, and it had a ton of unintended consequences. So then we we like backed off on that and we said, okay, well, again, what do we want to accomplish? We want to accomplish people, you know, adults that can handle themselves in a digital world. So, so I think where where we landed with that was number one, I think by the time they have phone phones, like their own devices that they have some autonomy on. I actually think by the time they get there, the work's already done. It's either too late or the work is done. Right. I I I don't I don't know that we were teaching a lot once they have phone in hand. Like I think those devices are so powerful and so addicting, and there's so much dopamine in those devices that I I think that overpowers any like real-time teaching. So I we we actually I I I'll speak for me. I won't speak for my wife. I I actually think we screwed it up. Like I think we made some mistakes that that I I don't know that we get to take back. Like I I think we we allowed some habits and did some damage with those contracts that I I don't know that we get to walk back. So now then instead our posture is that that we're gonna we're gonna err on the side of freedom, knowing the work that we've done ahead of time. Like we we've always instilled in them, like if if you don't feel safe, let us know. Or if somebody is bullying you or you see somebody else bully, like we those are things that applied when they were six and they apply on a phone. Like those sorts of things, those just apply, right? Like talk to us. If if somebody's doing something inappropriate and you're on the phone with them, like talk to us. If somebody is crying out for help or having red flags

Why Smartphone Contracts Fail & Choosing Freedom

SPEAKER_01 44:01

and text message safety wise, talk to us. But but I I think today how I would answer like I think by the time they get a phone, it's mostly done. And right now what we're doing is we we're airing on the side of freedom knowing that we're going to have some like speed bumps to work through. And we want to work through those before they you know like we're going to have a kid in college. Like I want to work through those while he's at home. So I I think we're okay like letting some stumbles happen, knowing that we're going to have the chance to work through.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah that's genius man. Like like well let's let's have some real life experience here where we can kind of you can coach him through literally coach him through him as a life coach you are while he's in your nest like while he's in your household and when he goes off to college perhaps like he's not going to you know like it's going to be different like you know do you do you call dad when you know you're kind of going through something like you you just have a different relationship right once once you're at the nest. So man, I I think that's great. That's a great answer. That's a great approach because like I'm going to learn from you. My kids are young right now but it goes fast you know in in 10 years I'm going to be going through the same stuff you are right now and you know it things are going to change. The digital environment is changing but you know I I think some of these issues will still in some way or form like exist. And so I'm going to there's no easy answer. There's a lot of things to to you know because it sounds like the digital contract sounds genius on on on paper but then you get into it and it's like oh it kind of erodes trust and you know there's they're circumventing this or that or you know they're not going to like you know and so yeah man when you when you when you talk about it that just gives me so many more ideas in the audience too hopefully like you know even if you don't have teens going through it right now it's like you can learn from that approach and the freedom approach like let's let's let them stumble let's give them those life lessons let's get them on the right track. So when they are on their own they are adults they can they can handle some of this stuff on their own and they're not going to get into some deep deep trouble that you know potentially they could you know because it's like it's a scary world you know once they're out there and you know like man you got a 17 year old so yeah I mean they're kind of in the throes of it all.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Yeah yeah and I Ryan can I say one more thing about this whole parenting absolutely yeah yeah I I just want to say I I think narcissists aside right so let's take out narcissists or abusive parents like I think most of us are doing the best we can and and I think that's okay. You know that if there's a parent listening to this and they're like man I I haven't thought about these things or or man I I don't have an answer for those things. It's okay. We're we're doing the best we can and I think doing the best we can is is is enough. Yeah I I I just I can't hammer that home enough like that there is no model of like this is what makes you a good parent or this is what makes you a bad parent. I don't even know what those words mean. I I think doing the best we can is is all we can do.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yeah and that's such a refreshing take because I do get people on this podcast who will it's very black and white if you do this you're you're not so great of a parent if you do this you are a great parent but like I kind of get that feeling of that vibe. Like they don't necessarily say it that way but I'm just like man like you know I I kind of feel sheepish about sharing that like when my kids like there you know the screen time issue for instance kids have no screen time like that's that's in my world that's just like asinine like that's that's not happening. Dad's watching the baseball game dad's not missing who's not missing his sports because the kids can't ever have see a screen in their whole life. So like it's just not happening. So like but some people will paint you as like my God you're a horrible parent or you haven't read the studies or the pediatric so and so said this or that and you're just like oh shit like there's so much stuff out there and it's just like it's overwhelming with the information. But like you said it's it's you know it's trying your best doing your best owning up to your own stuff and you know trying to be the best parent you can and you know there's not there's not a perfect parent out there let's be honest. We I love my parents too and there's stuff that they did that worked and stuff they did that didn't and I'm sure you can relate to that too where it's just like you know I think we're all just trying to figure it out and I think ultimately I just want to be you know give my kids a little bit more than I had and you know kind of be a little bit better of a parent than they were for me. And then hopefully they can kind of continue that on and the lineage you know and and be better for their kids. So that's just where I'm at too and I appreciate that that refreshing honesty because again I I do get people on here that kind of like preach like this is this is what you do and the if you don't do this then you're a shit parent and like I just for me that kind of perturbs me a little bit because I'm just like that's not how it works and you like everyone's in their own situation too you know what I mean like we all have our own challenges our difficulties so it's like to paint a broad brush is just it's crazy. So all right man Kurt thank you so much for the time can you tell us about Brimstone coaching live fully lead authentically everything else you got in the works where people can find you connect with you hope to have you back man I I'll come back anytime you want Ryan it's it's a pleasure to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

I feel like there's always a connection I appreciate the questions I so I yeah for the for the people watching I I co-own a coaching practice called the Brimstone coaching group we coach leaders but we we would say it like this that anybody who has somebody following them is a leader. So parents are leaders uh and and our work really revolves around self-awareness and and understanding why we show up the way we do when we show up in spaces so understanding why when my kid finds a way into Instagram why do I ramp up to 11 and why does it feel like such a threat. We help people understand uh where that comes from and how to start to live into a different set of behaviors and a different set of default reactions. We yeah we we love it we absolutely think this work changes the world I I don't change the world but this sort of self-awareness work changes the world. And we have a book. So we have a book out called Live Fully Lead Authentically again it's just a glimpse into the work we do and why we do it and a glimpse into the the sort of history of our work between myself and my coaching partner Chris Godfredson that book you can find it anywhere you get books Amazon, Target, Walmart, all those places and our website is brimstonecoachinggroup dot com you can find all the information about who we are and why we do what we do right there.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Yeah that's awesome and I you know I have on the Parent Top website parenttop.io we have the reading list so it has all the books on the show