The Reform UK Podcast
Go behind the scenes with Reform UK as leader Nigel Farage travels the country spreading his message of hope to broken Britain.
Listen in as he and the rest of the Reform UK team speak at packed rallies, make major announcements, and hold real conversations with everyday Brits - from young people struggling with the cost of living to business owners looking for change. Experience the energy, humour, and growing turquoise momentum sweeping the nation.
Hosted by journalist Ray Addison. New episodes every Monday. Join the journey.
The Reform UK Podcast
Assault on Democracy - Farage Warns The Establishment
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In the wake of the brutal murder of Reform UK spokesperson Ann Widdecombe, Ray Addison examines the escalating threats against Nigel Farage and the party, and the toxic political climate that has enabled them.
As Nigel campaigns in Clacton, Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood confirms Counter Terrorism Policing has taken over the investigation and finally offers him a meeting on security for Reform politicians.
The next day at Reform HQ, Shadow Home Secretary Zia Yusuf delivers a powerful speech exposing the inflammatory rhetoric from politicians and the media, and announces that a Reform government would provide round-the-clock protection for MPs of all parties.
The episode also features behind-the-scenes conversations with Rob Jenrick and newly elected Norfolk PCC Colin Sutton, plus raw street conversations that reveal the scale of Britain’s failing justice system and the urgent need for real change.
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Hello, how are we doing alright? Yeah.
Speaker 4How are we? It's Monday, the 13th of July, and Reform UK leader Nigel Farage is canvassing in Burrsville, a quiet suburban neighbourhood in Clacton-on-Sea.
Speaker 6Well, we're doing alright, but we're coming under a level of attack that I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 4Amongst the picturesque bungalows and well-kept gardens, it was hard to believe a serious battle was underway. Just days after Reform UK spokesperson Anne Whittacombe was brutally killed, and after months of relentless media and political pressure, Nigel was fighting not only in Clackton, but for something more fundamental, the basic right of politicians and their teams to speak freely, without harassment and fear for their safety.
Speaker 6The whole thing's the whole thing. But this is a lot of this is the rhetoric from Starmer, Davy, all of them. They call us all the names under the sun. They're actually inciting this stuff.
Speaker 4There on the doorsteps, the residents offered their support. They're backing like an antidote against the attacks of the left-wing press and the hate-filled messaging of the Uniparty.
Speaker 6Yeah, I didn't want to make people vote again, but we've just got to send a message to the establishment. They can't keep treating us like this.
Speaker 8No, they can't.
Speaker 6I know, I know, it's a mess, isn't it?
Speaker 8Bloody news.
Speaker 6So the home the now, the Home Secretary is about to speak.
Speaker 4Whilst Nigel was canvassing, back in Parliament, Home Secretary Shibana Mahmood was due to make a statement on MP security.
Speaker 7Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, Anne Riddickum was murdered in her home.
Speaker 4She began by explaining that counter-terrorism policing had now taken over the investigation into Anne's killing.
Speaker 7We now have new information and evidence that means counter-terrorism policing is leading the investigation. We are pursuing multiple lines of inquiry to establish the motivation for this attack.
Speaker 4She also invited Nigel to meet with the chair of Ravek, the Royal and VIP Executive Committee, to discuss the security of all reform politicians. For many, it was a clear admission that Nigel's security should not have been downgraded by the government. Reform's Shadow Chancellor Rob Jenrick put that exact point to Mahmood in Parliament.
Speaker 11Would she agree that it was unwise of the government to heavily reduce the security offered to the member for Clapton, given all that we know about his particular danger that is posed to him and to his family? Would she agree that, frankly, it shouldn't have taken the murder of Anne for him to be offered a meeting with the committee? And that many will conclude, perhaps unfairly, but nonetheless, that it is only because of the political views of the member for Clacton that he is placed in this position. And will she use her power as Home Secretary to make sure that the security that he and his family needs is put in place immediately?
Speaker 7Well, let me say to the Honourable Gentleman, he will know that it is an independent process within the Home Office that deals with the risk assessment and risk management of those in public life.
Speaker 4Whilst the Secretary of State claimed she was powerless to act, the day ended with a clear message. The threats against Nigel Farage and Reform UK were no longer abstract. They were real, they were escalating, and they could no longer be ignored, even by those who had helped to create them.
Speaker 5Why are they allowing him to roam literally right outside the carriage gate? What's the point of hundreds of armed police inside the parliamentary estate if they're not doing their job properly just outside the estate?
Speaker 4That same day, the Times newspaper had revealed the scale of the threat to Nigel's life. Nigel had received 1,577 threats since February this year, including 597 death threats. One message had called for Nigel to be executed, another had urged for him to be shot. When I arrived, I found Nigel holding a meeting with volunteers about his campaign, but it was impossible to move on from what had happened to Anne.
Speaker 6They've just released Anne's last interview. She did a pre-record at midday. She did a pre-record, she did eight o'clock on talk with Mark Dolan. She was due on she was due on Channel 5 at 1, which she did a Times Radio pre-record at midday, which they've just in the last 20 minutes. I haven't seen it yet released. She never stopped. She never stopped working.
Speaker 4Recorded around 20 minutes before police believed she was attacked. Anne Whiticombe had defended Nigel on Times Radio and issued a stark warning about a toxic shift in British politics, a growing tendency to target and destroy a person's character, reputation, and personal life instead of engaging with their ideas or policies.
Speaker 10What Clinton wants describe is the politics of personal destruction.
Speaker 4Anne's words were especially powerful given the horrific nature of what happened to her next. Nigel and I sat down to discuss the latest developments. So we know that terror police are now investigating Anne Whitakambe's killing. It's looking like there may have been a political motive. What's your reaction at this time?
Speaker 6Well, I said to the Prime Minister on the phone, I said to the Chief Council at Devlin Cornwall Police, I said this is not a burglary that's gone wrong. I said it clearly when I was on the moor on Saturday. I mean it was so obvious that it was a premeditated brutal murder. I didn't speculate at the time, whether I didn't think it was helpful, but it's pretty blooming obvious. We're learning more and more. We're learning that the guy at work read Russian communist literature. We understand some of that's been found in the house. So, yeah, I think the police in Devon and Cornwall have made themselves look very silly. And why would you rule something out if you don't know? Almost like, nothing to see here, chaps, just carry on with your life, just one of those things. Jolly bad luck. Just extraordinary.
Speaker 4It was very strange. It was something that you just wouldn't need to say, it wasn't necessary.
Speaker 6No, and they kept saying it again and again and again, and a lot of mainstream media picked it up, and you know, you could it it was obvious to me from the start.
Speaker 4Parliament was discussing security the other day. You you mentioned there in the meeting that you'd had a message from Shapana Mahmood, you've got a meeting with her as well. What are you going to be telling her? What are you going to be asking for in terms of security?
Speaker 6Well, you know, for the past 12, 13 years, the only real threat's been to me. And no one gave a damn about that. I mean, no one gave a damn about that. You know, repeatedly asked Home Secretaries for help, repeatedly refused. When I did finally get into Parliament, they provided me with something. I had a full team with me after the Southport killings. And then last year they downgraded it massively. To the extent I couldn't operate. You know, BBC this morning. Oh, Mr. Fowris refused the offer of help. Well, you know, a driver in security, if I'm going to a public event, is not enough. I need people ahead to work out what the temperature is.
Speaker 4Advanced teams.
Speaker 6Otherwise, I just can't do it. I literally can't do it. I can't live. Um, but this isn't really about me. This is now a much, much broader issue that we have people who are very prominent, you know. Even people who aren't MPs who are very prominent. I think of Layla Cunningham, I think of Zia, people like that. I think of people like Ladine Doris, former cabinet members who are now allied with us. Um I think of one or two people who are Brexit Party MEPs, who are broadcasters. So I think this is much, much broader. Now, in terms of what the state can provide, I just don't know. But I'm going to say, look, don't worry about me, but I'm worried about the others. I genuinely am worried about the others. I'm also worried that the government's talking about capping donations. So we might find ourselves in a position where the state doesn't help and we haven't got the money to do it. But I but I I think the tone of what Mahmood said in the Commons and her text to me shows they're genuinely concerned. The only frightening thing is perhaps they know more than we do.
Speaker 4Just a note on political discourse. You know, we've we've all we're all aware of journalists, uh broadcasters, politicians who have stoked up hate against various political personalities such as yourself. How much do you think that's playing into the situation we're seeing right now?
Speaker 6I mean, Ed Davy in the Commons, PM Keys last week, saying that reform councillor uh are canvassers, we're knocking on doors saying we're gonna send you home. Just not true. Uh I think of various broadcasters, journalists. I mean, Dan Hodges has become obsessive. Obsessive. Yeah. Um and I think all of this, it's all one-sided. I mean, if I said anything vile about anybody on the left, I mean, goodness gracious me, I'd be forced to apologize in public and all the rest of it. So it's a very one-sided narrative here. And I think the Times, well, what can I say? I mean, Anne was murdered five days after a documentary about her house and the Times have chosen to publish photographs of where members of my family live. I'm sorry. I mean, and that actually is why this by-election is happening. That was what tipped me over the edge. That is just completely unacceptable. Which is why I said, let's call a by-election, let's give the people a collectum a chance to stick two fingers up to the entire establishment. And we'll see on August the 13th whether they take the offer or not.
Speaker 4So we're obviously seeing that reaction from politicians. They seem to be moving in the right direction. You've got that meeting coming up. Do you think we'll also see a slight toning down a re-evaluation of the tone from those broadcasters, those journalists?
Speaker 6For two weeks? No more than that. No more than that. No more than that. No, nothing's gonna stop James O'Brien putting out a dire trub of hate every day. Nothing. He'd have nothing to say if he didn't do that. Wow. I think if I didn't exist, he wouldn't have a radio show. Should send you royalties.
Speaker 4Oh, quite right. Thank you, Nigel. Later that day, the head of counter-terrorism policing gave an update confirming everyone's worst fears. Anne had been killed in a targeted attack.
Speaker 3As we confirmed yesterday, Counter-terrorism Southeast are now leading the investigation into the death of Anne Whitakum. This is due to new information and evidence coming to light following the arrest of a 28-year-old man on Saturday in South Yorkshire. I know there will be lots of questions about what that new information is, but this is a live investigation, so I'm limited on the details that I can give. However, it is clear that this was a targeted attack. We are still working to understand the extent of any planning or preparation and the motivation that sits behind that attack. And I do not want to comment further on this at this stage of our inquiries.
Speaker 4Robert Genrick responded, publishing a video on X summing up the situation.
Speaker 11On Friday, the police said that there was nothing to suggest Anne Whittacom's murder was politically motivated. Nigel Farage, not unreasonably, questioned that judgment. Because it didn't quite pass the smell test. For having the temerity to question the police's judgment, there was a big pylon from the political establishment. But guess what? Nigel was right. Now, in an extraordinary development, counter-terrorism police have taken charge of the investigation and have said that it was a targeted attack. Now it doesn't mean that the suspect is guilty. The police will need to conduct their investigation fully. But it does prove that the establishment will stop at nothing to demonize Reform UK and Nigel Farage.
Speaker 6Now take a moment to subscribe, hit the notification bell, and you'll never miss another episode. And if you like it, well, you could always leave us a five-star review.
Speaker 4Morning. How are you? I'm alright, mate. How are you doing? The next day, Wednesday the 15th, dozens of journalists were gathered at Reform HQ in London, waiting to hear an announcement from Shadow Home Secretary Zia Youssef.
Speaker 2An attack on a politician is an assault on democracy itself.
Speaker 4The speech came almost exactly a year after Reform launched its Britain is Lawless campaign, which exposed the surge in knife crime, shoplifting, and antisocial behaviour. But today, Zia argued we must face a new and darker reality that a toxic climate of political and media rhetoric has created an urgent need to protect politicians who dare to speak truth to power.
Speaker 2David Lamy, now the Deputy Prime Minister, described Anne as a, quote, poisonous bigot who wants to, quote, drag us back to the 19th century and quote, throw minorities out in the cold on the way. He boldly declared, quote, we must stand up to them before it's too late. Before it's too late. West treating until recently the health secretary said, quote, if only science had a cure for Anne Whittaken. A woman on Twitter said, quote, Anne Whittakom better go this week. She is a little fascist beast. This woman happens to have been, until just a few months ago, the Minister for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls, Jess Phillips. Ed Davy, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, made the inflammatory declaration that, quote, the greatest threat to the Britain we love doesn't come from Tehran or Moscow. It comes from within. I'm talking about Nigel Farage and reform.
Speaker 4The examples Zia gave were shocking, but rather than stopping at criticism, he set out a concrete commitment from reform.
Speaker 2If reform win the next general election, as Home Secretary, I will ensure that all members of Parliament of all parties are provided with round-the-clock protection. We will also allocate significant new resources to protect former politicians still active in public life. No matter how much I, Nigel, Richard, or anyone else may disagree with your views, if you are an MP, you must be able to air them without fear. An attack on one politician is an assault on our democracy itself.
Speaker 4After Zia's speech, I had an appointment to meet up with Rob Jenrich. This is the end of my political journey. It's the last hurrah, is it? He was running slightly behind schedule due to Starmer's last outing at Prime Minister's questions, so I watched the political pantomime unfold from reception. In six years, went from historic defeat in 2019 to historic victory in 2024. It was chilling to think that by the time this podcast came out, Britain would have a new Prime Minister with no vote and no mandate. To my wife and children, I love you. Goodbye. Hi, how are you? You alright, you good? Yeah, alright, yeah. Good to see you. Rob and I sat down in the same studio where Nigel had triggered the Clackton by-election just a week and a half earlier. First chance I've had to speak to you since the murder of Anne Whiticum, and just wanted to get your reaction.
Speaker 11Well, I was so taken aback when I heard the news. I've known Anne for uh I think the best part of 25 years, um, and loved her as a political figure, enjoyed watching her on the tele, all her, you know, fun, vibrant appearances. Um was very, very sad, and was then shocked to hear the news the next day that it was likely to be a murder, and then as more facts came into the public domain that it was a particularly brutal murder, I can't really believe still that that's the way that Anne uh met her death. Uh, but I think we should remember her for the way she lived her life, which was everything that reform stands for. She was brave, principled, she was driven by her own very strong sense of faith and patriotism, and she also was willing to have a bit of a laugh along the way and not take herself too seriously.
Speaker 4Obviously it's an active investigation, and by the time this podcast comes out, we don't know what will have potentially have been found or or or whether any charges might have been made. But just on the concept of threats to MPs and uh significant public figures in politics, what's your current thinking on that situation?
Speaker 11Well, firstly, we should say that the way the police handle this has turned out to be a total mess. You know, the facts of the case that somebody had come to Anne's house, which is in a very remote location, parked his car on the drive, not taken anything from her home, these at least raised the suspicion that this was not just a burglary gone wrong, which is what we were told by the authorities on the day. And Nigel was right to raise concerns that maybe, just maybe that wasn't what had happened, maybe this was premeditated, maybe there was some kind of political motivation, and yet the whole political establishment, the newspapers, the other political parties all piled in on him, saying that he was jumping to conclusions that he was even politicizing this, which I thought was an appalling thing to say, because I I spoke to Nigel and he was very personally affected by this as somebody who knew knew and and cared for Anne uh deeply. That was very sincere. And of course Nigel was proven right. And so, if nothing else, this confirms that the establishment will go to any length to undermine Nigel and reform UK, and we're in the fight of our lives.
Speaker 4Quite a strong contrast, then, when you think about what Zia announced uh this morning protection for all MPs and uh senior sort of political figures who might be at risk, regardless of obviously which political party they be a member of, and he said, you know, significant measures higher than the current protections that they receive.
Speaker 11Yeah, I always said that if I was Chancellor of the Exchequer and Zia was Home Secretary, without question we would provide our opponents with the protection that they and their families need. You know, we wouldn't we wouldn't think about it for a minute. And I I was astonished that other people didn't do that. You know, the I said it in the House of Commons to Shabal Mahmoud, the Home Secretary, during the week. That it was completely disgraceful that the security that Nigel was provided initially after he was elected member of Palm for Clacton was very rapidly downgraded. It's very hard to think of a good reason why that happened. He he obviously was somebody who was under a very high degree of threat, and it was in fact downgraded just at the time when this small boat migrant was being tried and ultimately found guilty of threatening to kill Nigel. I don't know if you remember this case, but this was a guy who had boasted on TikTok showing his tattoos of AK-47s that he was coming over to the UK specifically to kill Nigel.
SpeakerEnglishman, Nigal Pazha, don't talk uh about me. You not know me. I come to England because I want uh marriage uh with your sister.
Speaker 11I gonna come to England, I gonna pop pock the authorities have seen that and all the other multitude of evidence and reform of have published that we've alluded to some of that in today, the the hundreds and hundreds of threats that the the man gets. How could they have seen that and decided, you know what, we'll downgrade his security? And I I do think that that must be something to do with Nigel's politics, because I just don't believe that if it was any other politician in Britain today, they would they would have done that. And the home secretary said, Oh, it's an independent process, you know, I'm powerless. She's not powerless, if she's the home secretary, of course she could overrule her officials, as indeed she seems to have done this week by granting. Nigel a meeting with the people who run this process. Well, why wasn't that meeting held two years ago? But you know what, we're not backing down. Reform is funding the security of its members of parliament, and I'm personally grateful to the party for doing that. But we are all going to be just as visible and determined as we always were.
Speaker 4You said it's political. Zia read out a number of messages from uh quite senior Labour politicians, Conservative Lib Dem about Anne Whiticam and talked about this kind of stoking up of of hatred would be the word I would use, and the threat that that could potentially then lead to if people decided to act upon some of these kind of messages. What's your thought on that?
Speaker 11Well, you've got to choose your language with a degree of care. Having said that, reform doesn't believe in policing tone. You know, I'm sick of that. That's one of the things that gets me most angry that you go and do an interview, you know, on the Today programme and they spend ten minutes saying whether or not someone should have said it was an invasion, rather than how are we gonna stop people from breaking into our country? But I think it's commonsensical that there is a line that that you shouldn't cross, like calling people Nazis, for example. So you shouldn't be saying those things. Reform seems to be targeted time and again, and there are massive hypocrites in the House of Commons who get very upset when somebody says anything about them, but they're happy to dole it out to others.
Speaker 4Now, this situation falls about exactly a year from reform's announcement of its Britain is lawless campaign. Can I just get a bit of thoughts from you on where we sit now? How would you summarise the current situation? I think it's got worse.
Speaker 11You know, do you feel safer walking down your high street? Uh are there more obviously fake vape shops and Turkish barbers on your high street today than there were a yugo that yes there are. You know, tradesmen's bands are still being broken into and their their tools are being nicked. I I just think these so-called minor crimes have such a profound impact and we have to take them seriously. Reform is going to, you know, fix our broken streets and then make people feel safe once again. And that means taking these things very seriously, having a total zero tolerance attitude. If you're a shoplifter, you go to jail. If you've broken into a tradesman's van and you're selling his tools uh at a local car boot sale, you should be arrested and you should go to jail. It's gonna be as simple as that. If I'm Chancellor, I'll work with Zia to close down all of these fake shops that are on the high street, which are selling illegal goods, ripping off the tax man because they're not paying their taxes, therefore putting up the taxes on uh law-abiding citizens and businesses across the country. We we've got used to this now as a country. You know, I was in the Greg's in my constituency the other day, and the the lady who was working there serving me said that something is nicked there now every 20 minutes. I mean, it almost makes a law-abiding person think, why am I bothering to pay for this? I almost think that's that's now seeping into our culture, you know, like it's one of the reasons why so many people are cheating benefits because they see, well, everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I do it? It's very corrosive morally in the country, and we've got to crack down on it. So we we are gonna redouble our efforts. It's gonna be one of the themes of reform this summer, uh, as it was last summer. That Britain is lawless, reform is the only party with the guts to fix it. Thank you, Rob. Cheers! Thank you. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 4As I left Reform HQ, I wandered over to the Houses of Parliament to ask people their views of the current state of crime and punishment in Britain. As usual, there was a mix of political staffers, curious tourists snapping selfies, and unhappy protesters waving homemade signs.
Speaker 1No life, no freedom, no future, no hope for all our IPs.
Speaker 4Amongst them, I found campaigners fighting against IPPs, indeterminate public protection sentences, which were abolished in 2012, but still remain in effect for thousands of prisoners convicted before that date. Can I ask where you served the majority of your sentence?
Speaker 12Um, I've been all over the place. I've been Horfield, I've been Dartmoor, I've been Channelsword, uh Guys Marsh. Yeah.
Speaker 4Dave told me he'd been released in 2023. Squat and muscular, his grey t-shirt and shorts could almost have been prison issue if they hadn't borne the distinctive Nike logo. I asked what he thought of the state of the justice system.
Speaker 12Let's not forget, yeah, that the prison system is completely broken. I know people who's never had a problem with drugs at all yet and have gone to jail and picked up a habit. Like, oh, people who's gone to jail, they've been like quite law-abiding, they've literally just made a mistake, and then literally they've got links in jail where they could like get access to anything they want, mainly drugs.
Speaker 4Did you see a lot of a lot of violence?
Speaker 12Yeah, I see people get stabbed, I see people get when I first went to prison, everyone used to smoke heroin and hash and that. When I got recalled last time, it was all spikes. They used to ruin people.
Speaker 4What's your view on crime and antisocial behaviour? People doing things like you know shoplifting and and obviously they just sad state of affairs.
Speaker 12Some people shoplifting to feed their habit, some people are just shoplifting because they've got no food, no nothing. You see what I'm saying? And they're like, I think just society itself is just really broken at the moment. You think it's a symptom?
Speaker 4Yeah, I think it's yeah, I think society is absolutely opposite Dave by Parliament Square Garden was a Christian street preacher. Take opportunities, everything, cheese, must be must, baby, mm-hmm, baby, she wore a portable amplifier around her neck and held a large wooden cross which she shook in the direction of Pumser's bummy. Can I get your thoughts on from the country at the moment, no more antisocial behaviour? Like, what do you think?
Speaker 8Mamma, this nation was taken. Some of them come in the babble, um, I'm telling you. The police have to um the mum. The message comes um this nation. Because people are famous to come with climb. Because you committed clam, some comments you can get a little madam.
Speaker 4As I walked towards Westminster tube station, I spotted a homeless man slumped on newspapers spread out on the pavement. A battered cafe Nero cup to his right, with a handful of coppers and a wide-brimmed summer hat to his left. He told me his name was Paul.
Speaker 14I think there's any lot more money at the wrong end. So a prevention would be better than cure, I think. In my life, I've been in and out of jail for like stupid teas and at the end of the day, it's my 59th birthday tomorrow, and then I haven't sat here worse off I've ever been. I'm sorry to hear that, but happy birthday for tomorrow.
Speaker 4I hope somebody tells you that on the day as well.
Speaker 14Yeah, that'd be nice.
Speaker 4Obviously, you're out on the streets, so you see everything that happens what you see.
Speaker 14The spice is taking over there. Um we were just there's no respect for anybody anymore. We were just, you know, I mean. We're living in a world now it's normal to walk past people in the streets and hungry.
Speaker 4Um do you see, obviously, there's a lot of shoplifting going on and things like that?
Speaker 14Anything. Also, I mean, you have to do someone sometimes. Do you do it daily? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're an early too.
Speaker 4Can you tell me a bit more about the sort of um criminality that you witness on the streets and the dangerous sides of the city?
Speaker 14I'd rather not talk about it. Just a little bit about.
Speaker 4Are you able to get yourself into hospital some things like that? No. No anymore. Do you get much support from anyone? No, not really. Does the government or council try to help you with anything?
Speaker 14No, not at all. These workers remember, then nothing happens.
Speaker 4No, I totally understand, okay. Alright, is there anything that you would like to say to people thank you? Alright, thank you very much. Appreciate the time. As I wandered around Westminster, I was struck by what I'd heard. Three vastly different people, a street preacher, an ex-convict, and a homeless man, all convinced that Britain was broken, that law and order had failed. Before I left, I took one last look at what has become a regular fixture outside Parliament: the anti-Brexit protests led by Steve Bray. Set up on a busy road crossing, a speaker blasted out crude songs slating Nigel Farage, while a large placard picturing his face had the word toxic printed above it. I wondered about the purpose of protests like this. Do the organisers really believe they're adding to the political discourse, or are they simply trying to demonise one man? I considered asking them, but decided it might not be safe and just walked back to the tube. As I was travelling home, the telegraph broke the news that a man in his twenties had been arrested and bailed over an alleged threat made on X to shoot Nigel. The reform leader had been quoted as saying this was the first time the police had ever proactively acted on a social media post and that he hoped they were looking at the other three or four hundred similar posts from this year alone. The next day we were back at Reform Campaign HQ in Clackton. In an attic room filled with boxes and placards stacked to the rafters, Sarah Pochin MP sat down to reflect on her relationship with Anne and the impact of her killing.
Speaker 9So one of my fondest memories of Anne was uh just before uh the polling day at Rughorn and Hells Beach, she uh was at my house and she said, Right, have you written your your speech, your maiden speech? And actually I have been working on it because I I always only ever have a plan A. And she sat down uh in the chair and made me stand up in front of her and uh practice my speech and I got my notes out and said, Oh no, she said, we don't use notes in her in her wonderful voice. She said, You need to learn that, young lady. We speak without notes at reform, she said. So I did. I learned my eight, nine-minute later speech and delivered it without notes. And I'd like to think that that was my little that was my little real personal contact with Anne, and uh and now as much as possible I speak without notes. I was at home with my husband when we first heard about Anne's um dying, and we were quite shaken up because we we knew Anne she'd stayed with us, um, and it was terribly upsetting. I then went into work in my Roncorn uh constituency office, and obviously everybody was very upset about the news. But then at some point during the morning, I think it was, um, the MPs got uh got notified that in fact it wasn't a natural death, it was in fact murder. And I just remember literally just uh my body just was was like shaking, I had to sit down in my office and I was alone, thank goodness. You know, I I I must admit I spent the next you know couple of days feeling very sick as the news was starting to uh to come to life. And obviously thinking uh about what's happened to Anne and uh uh the way it happened so uh brutally in her home. Um she was by herself. You know, you you do think should I ever be at home by myself? It's a horrible thought. I I will never be stopped, but I am becoming more aware of the dangers that we face. And you do think what would I do? Well, how would I react in that situation? But I don't know. I found myself the other day uh before I went into my office where I knew people were waiting for me, having to just take a moment. Uh I could feel myself welling up, and it just keeps hitting me every now and again now. Um, the reality of what's happened, and we're gonna miss giants like Almercum in politics. So the family reaction's been quite interesting to all of this because I try and keep anything that's not very nice, that's that their mum might have been on the receiving end obviously out of their lives. I don't tell them uh about some of the stuff that comes in uh to the office. I don't tell them when I walk down the street and someone shouts Nazi or you're a racist, or you know, they don't want to see that side of their mum. I'm their mum. But because of what's happened uh to Anne, um, they obviously look at their mum now. And I I know well one of my eldest son particularly said, Mum, please stop, you know, it's just not worth it. You know, look at what could happen to you. And that that actually was a bit of a knife twisting in my stomach because I thought, oh god, is it selfish to carry on? But I can't stop. This makes me even more determined. All these fanatics need to be uh called out uh or uh imprisoned, whatever cause they're coming from, we've got to put a stop to it and we've got to stand up to it. And this is what I feel so strongly that the police are not doing at the moment, that society's not doing at the moment. I don't care whether you're a conservative MP, a Labour, nobody should live in fear of violence. We should all be able to stand up and give our views and our judgment about the issues on which we're talking without the threat of violence. And when we leave that place in London, that is when we are targets, and we should be able to walk out of that place and not be so worried as I feel now about an attack, about who is waiting for me outside Parliament Gates.
Speaker 4Later that afternoon, we finally had some good news. Colin Sutton, the detective responsible for capturing serial killer Levi Belfield and rapist Delroy Grant, had won the Norfolk by-election for reform, becoming our first ever police and crime commissioner. Colin, congratulations, you've just found out that you've won. How do you feel?
Speaker 13Uh exhilarated, um, a little surprised at the scale of the victory. Very honoured that the people of Norfolk have elected me, and aside from all that, I'm really looking forward to doing the job.
Speaker 4Yeah, I bet you're delighted to be back in the saddle. Tell me a little bit about the uh figures, the numbers, the scale of the victory, and what do you think was the key message that resonated most with your voters?
Speaker 13So the turnout was only 17%, but having said that, I got 32,647 votes, I think it was, and my my margin of victory was 14,299. Wow. I was the only candidate of the seven who actually had policing experience. So I guess there was a a little bit of good fortune in that, I suppose, in that that people perhaps who were undecided. And I know I've had people say this to me on the doorstep that they they probably wouldn't necessarily support reform, but because they thought I was the best man for the job, they were going to vote for me. So the main thing is is regaining the trust and kind of um kind of getting the connection back between the public and their police. I think that's something that's been missing and is missing across the board now in policing, and and uh it should all be about the community, it should all be about the neighbourhoods and what they need and what their priorities are, and we need to reflect that.
Speaker 4I have to ask you about the horrific killing of Ann Whitakum. How did you react as a former police detective, but also as a reform UK colleague of Anne's?
Speaker 13Yeah, I mean, in terms of in terms of the what happened around the the initial reports and the police and uh and and the investigation and so forth, you know, I I'm I I really don't like to get too involved because I feel I feel the pain of the people that are trying to investigate with the world and his wife on social media um giving them helpful advice, shall we say. And I don't want to join that list. Um I think it was I think we're in a position where because of social media and because of the pressure that now is on the police to say something that we may have, as often happens, the pendulum's gone a bit too far, and now they've started saying things before they should. Investigating murders is hard, and things come at you very quickly while you're doing it, and things change very quickly because of that. And I think that you know we we we we mustn't let ourselves get pushed by social media and and the um the armchair detectives into into making comments that prove to be ill-founded or unwise, even in the end. So so that that's my kind of view on that side of it. And I have to say, I think the the assistant commissioner in the Met Lawrence Taylor, who's taken over for the anti-terrorist uh counter-terrorism branch, has done a good job of shoring that up and made some good comments, and I think people are understanding what's going on a bit better. Uh, in terms of Anne personally, I only met Anne once, but she was the sort of person that when you do meet her once, it leaves a lasting impression. And it's funny today, you know, when I got called up onto that stage and I knew I'd won and I had to make a speech, it just kind of came out and I said I sort of looked up skywards and said, This is for Anne, sort of thing, you know, because I feel she's she's been an influence, she was an influence in this party that uh that many people outside the party probably don't realise. And she was a wonderful character of feistiness and principles, and um, you know, I think we should all strive for that. And uh she she she she had a lasting effect on everybody who met her and knew her, and she'll be missed.
Speaker 4Well, her killing has thrown into sharper focus issues of safety for political figures, and also the kind of dangerous rhetoric which we've heard, you know, press, politicians, many are guilty of it, uh, which can put those figures potentially at greater risk. What are your thoughts on that, on language, on tone, and and where we should sort of be headed in the future in terms of political discourse?
Speaker 13I think some of the stuff that goes on, uh, and it is particularly from the left, particularly not necessarily elected politicians, but people from the left on social media and stuff, there are vile things that come out uh and and it shouldn't be like that. And the reason it shouldn't be like that is that if you actually want people like we do in reform to have lived a life and to have done things other than politics and then bring that life experience, that work experience, business experience, whatever you to politics, then you need to make them think that when they're coming into that new world, they're going to be safe. Yeah. I think we as a as a society need to make sure that the people who are willing to do those things and stand for public office are properly protected. And so, you know, what what what uh what Sia was saying earlier this week, I I completely understand. And yes, it might cost, but you know what? We just proved that, you know, democracy isn't cheap.
Speaker 4Well, Colin, it's uh nice to end with some good news. Uh finally, uh, congratulations to you and all the best in in your new job, which I can tell you're raring to go.
Speaker 13Starting on Monday, I'll be there. Yeah, thanks, Ray. And uh, you know, all the reformers out there, I had people come from all over from Suffolk, from Essex, from Leicestershire, from London, to come and help me with this campaign. So I really, really did feel the love and the support that was coming. And this great victory that we've had today is a testament to them and their hard work. And uh, it's not just mine, it's a reform victory. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Colin.
Speaker 4Appreciate you. Thanks, Noes. The Reform UK podcast was produced and presented by me, Ray Addison. Thanks to Nigel, Rob, Zia, Richard, Sarah, Colin, and of course you for listening. If you'd like to chat with other listeners about the show, you can join the Reform UK podcast community on Facebook. You can also follow me at Ray Addison Live on X. We'll be back with a brand new episode on Monday. Goodbye.
