National Security Emergency - Reform Launches Operation Fortress

This week we’re taking you behind the scenes at the launch of Operation Fortress.

Reform UK will use the Royal Navy to rescue and return anyone attempting to cross the English Channel illegally. Nigel Farage and Zia Yusuf prepare to unveil the plan and explain why they won’t back down if France refuses to take migrants back.

We also bring you an exclusive interview with Reform UK Chairman Lee Anderson following his trip to Calais to visit a migrant camp. He reveals what he saw, his encounters with illegal migrants and what happened when French police confronted his team.

Plus, we’re back in Clacton with Nigel, speaking to residents about Andy Burnham’s shock decision to take a holiday just days into his new job as Prime Minister.

And remember Paul, the homeless man we first spoke to in Episode 15? Weeks later, what does he think of the new Prime Minister’s pledge to end rough sleeping — and has anyone tried to help him?

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Transcript

unknown 0:05

This is a national security emergency.

SPEAKER_07 0:11

What we're announcing is that a reformed government undermined it for us. We will launch Operation Fortress.

SPEAKER_13 0:17

Monday, the 3rd of August.

SPEAKER_07 0:19

Any illegal migrant, any unauthorized vessel trying to make it to our shores will be intercepted by our Royal Marines and return to France as part of a humanitarian mission. If we're not willing to use our military to defend our sovereign nation when north of 200,000 have already arrived illegally, then soon enough we will cease to have a country worth defending.

SPEAKER_17 0:51

Entering French territorial waters or landing personnel or migrants on French territory without explicit authorization from the French breaches international law and infringes on French sovereignty. That's a legal opinion that we've just consulted.

SPEAKER_13 1:16

In the first two weeks of Andy Burnham's premiership, more than 2,000 migrants illegally crossed the English Channel. Over the last eight years, that number is more than 200,000. And just days ago, Zia witnessed serious disorder in the Spanish territory of Ceyuta after around 60,000 migrants entered illegally from Morocco.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

Overnight, they caused enormous chaos. Looting shops, looting homes, terrorizing local residents.

SPEAKER_13 1:46

With some admitting they hoped eventually to reach Britain.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

So where would you like to go? Do you want to be here? Would you like to be in Spain, or do you want to go elsewhere in Europe? I have gone to England. You want to go to England?

SPEAKER_13 1:58

But now, despite the ongoing threat, our new Prime Minister had decided to go on holiday just days after taking office.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

15 days and he's off for two weeks. I mean, that takes the biscuit.

SPEAKER_13 2:12

For many, it raised serious questions about his commitment to the biggest job in UK politics and his willingness to put British citizens first.

SPEAKER_18 2:21

He's got thousands in the channel, and he's got no answer to it, and so he's probably looked at it and gone, I better make myself scarce.

SPEAKER_13 2:28

I'm Ray Addison, and this is episode 18 of the Reform UK podcast, National Security Emergency. That morning, while Zia was completing his media appearances, I was travelling on the underground to reform UK's official launch of Operation Fortress. A few weeks earlier, I'd met a homeless man called Paul sitting on the ground outside Westminster tube station. At the time, he told me he had little real support from local or national government. But since then, Andy Burnham had become Prime Minister.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

Now I will soon go through that door behind me and issue my first instruction to end rough sleeping in our country.

SPEAKER_13 3:26

So as I climbed the steps out of Westminster Station, I found myself wondering about Paul. And then I saw him.

SPEAKER_10 3:35

Hey, did you remember me? I did. I did.

SPEAKER_13 3:39

He was in the same spot, the same exact piece of pavement, with the same belongings around him, a battered paper cup at his side, a copy of the Metro newspaper, and a paperback book in his hands.

SPEAKER_11 3:51

Just uh wondered how things are going for you. Nothing much has changed, to be honest. No.

SPEAKER_13 3:57

I don't know if you follow politics much or you're able to, but it's a little difficult. Andy Burnham, our new Prime Minister, when he went into number 10, last thing he said was, I'm about to go in and instruct my staff to end homelessness.

SPEAKER_11 4:12

He said that in Manchester as well, didn't he?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 4:14

And uh well he hasn't been to see me yet. No. Has anyone been to see you? No, not since you were last year. So I'm the last person that came to speak to you about about it.

SPEAKER_13 4:27

Yeah. I asked how that made him feel.

SPEAKER_11 4:30

Um desolate. A little bit, yeah, a little bit hopeless. This is hard, this is you know I mean. And it's not just the physical thing of being homeless, it's about being a whole amount of people that just walk past you in the course of a day. I mean, it's not just that, it's just that whole feeling that self-work goes through the floor somewhat. I'm gonna see if I can tap you up though because I've had nothing this morning. Yeah. Is there a cash point around here? There's one down the bottom of the stairs just to look like.

SPEAKER_13 4:59

I went back underground and took out what I could for Paul.

SPEAKER_11 5:03

Thank you. Sorry it's not Paul. Thank you. Can I ask you a question? Anyway, if Andy Burden came to speak, what would you ask him to do for you another homeless people? Well, there's a question and a lot. I don't know, I just think it's had some consistency, really. It's not just a case of putting this in, you know, you know, putting a roof over your head in step one, really. You know, you've got to rejoin society. At the end of the day, my life's not over, although sometimes I think of it might be. So, you know, just you know, see it through, really. I can see that you've got a lot to offer. You know, you've got a great personality, you're an intelligent guy. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of drunk, and that's the worst thing about it. If I'm someone drunk and someone's drunk, then house me. Yeah, but this isn't I think we've had this conversation before. But there's no reason why you you you came none whatsoever. No. Track it back on and you know, just get on with it. Just need a bit of help. Yeah, exactly. Just pick me up. I'll keep going. Thanks for your time, mate. Hope you have a good day.

SPEAKER_15 6:00

No worries, buddy.

SPEAKER_13 6:01

As I walked, I thought about how strange it must feel to be homeless in Westminster. Parliament was less than 100 metres away. Number 10, only a few minutes' walk. In front of that famous door, Andy Burnham had made promises about changing the country, but within days had gone on vacation. And there was Paul, sitting on the pavement, waiting for someone to change his life. As I walked past Downing Street, I couldn't help thinking about the book Paul had been reading, Night for Day by Patrick Flannery. About a 1950s America gripped by political crisis and fear. I put my head down and kept walking. My destination was the Royal Horse Guards Building in the heart of Whitehall. Home to the National Liberal Club, it was grand and imposing, built for people at the centre of British political life. As I was a few minutes early, I took a moment to look at the impressive bronze statue which stands outside. Five soldiers, a Second World War tank crew, a memorial to those who fought for Britain. At their feet was an inscription: From mud through blood to the green fields beyond. It felt like a fitting place to be talking about national security.

SPEAKER_10 7:27

Hello, Ray, how are you doing? I'm bright and early.

SPEAKER_13 7:30

On the second floor, I found Reform's event crew setting up in a large book-lined room.

SPEAKER_15 7:36

Check, one, two, one, two, one. Check one, two, one.

SPEAKER_13 7:41

Around 70 chairs have been placed out for journalists. They all faced a small stage with a lector and a desk. Behind were two pristine union flags. It's absolutely necessary. I'm surprised it has not been done so far. In the Green Room, Leila Cunningham, reform's candidate for Mayor of London, was excited about the launch.

SPEAKER_14 8:02

And what's interesting about it, which you'll hear in the press conference, I know this won't be released before, is it's a rescue mission, so it's not turning them back. It's humanitarian conditions, and I think that is a different approach to turning them back, which can be dangerous.

SPEAKER_13 8:14

Because at the moment we're kind of rescuing them and then bringing them to England.

SPEAKER_14 8:18

Well well, no, exactly. Right now it's a ferry service. Yeah. Uh and it makes a mockery of everything we stand for. Yeah. And our sovereignty and everything, and and i it's what the British people want. Nobody sees what happened in Spain or men coming on our shores and says, you know what, I want more of that. Nobody.

SPEAKER_13 8:38

Do you think that video, that powerful image of all those men sort of streaming across that border, 60,000, do you think that was a bit of a wake-up moment for some people?

SPEAKER_14 8:46

Um I I do, but then when you think that 200,000 have entered this country, you know, not all at once, but you know, that that same scene that people saw has happened here just on a more gradual basis. So how frightening that looked. We've had a lot more come in here and they haven't been detained or deported as Spain did. No, no, no, they've been housed in towns and villages amongst us. So people might find that alarming, but they should know that thanks to successive governments, those men that have entered our country have been treated very differently to the way to the way Spain treated those. They've been housed and and put in the middle of us. Do you know I was a senior prosecutor in London, I've prosecuted many men who've come illegally over our boats. Uh they get full legal aid. And a mitigating factor that public prosecutors stand up and say is my client just arrived on a boat, we have to realise how traumatic that is. And that almost justifies a lesser sentence. It should be aggravating because it's a crime, but it's not. So a lot of them come to London, obviously, because it's easier to commit crime, it's easier to disappear. Um and I for instance in Westminster they have like five Arabic translators on call. No other court in the country does.

SPEAKER_13 9:55

Yeah. And that costs thousands and thousands.

SPEAKER_14 9:57

It costs thousands and thousands, but it shows how prevalent crime by foreigners from the nationalities that are arriving on boats are. I've arrested a lot of sexual offenders who've arrived on boats that speak no English at all. And what's upsetting is they get full legal aid.

SPEAKER_13 10:14

One of the lines we always hear when we ask the government, you know, what are they doing to protect us? How can they be sure that the people that are applying for asylum are, you know, safe to be in this country. They say, oh, full checks are carried out. From your professional experience, how able are they to carry out full checks?

SPEAKER_14 10:30

They're not able at all. But they have no documentation. They could say they're from whatever country, and they do, you know. I had one one guy, he picked the most obscure Ethiopian dialect, uh, just because he knew we had no translators and it had to be adjourned, adjourned, adjourned because he pretended he couldn't speak English. Yeah, he could. They game the system massively. Yeah, I mean also they come with like 40 aliases. You know, a whole list of aliases. There is there is no way to check who they are. They even say they're 16 when they've got a receding hairline and white hair.

SPEAKER_19 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 11:01

So they're gaming the system massively and we're the we're the suckers taking it on.

SPEAKER_13 11:06

Why does the government not just admit it then? Why why do we hear from the Tories from Labour now that, oh, you know, we can we can do the checks, we can it's all it's all fine. We're told it's all fine, and yet we know it's not fine.

SPEAKER_14 11:19

Because they lie. You know, they're not. Why are they lying to us? There are no checks you can do, you know, and even if you did kind of call Afghanistan and say that, you know, I've got a guy called so and so, can you check he's he he's got a clean criminal record? You know, how how valid is that anyway? That how can you check someone with no documentation? It is actually impossible. So it's just gaslighting real. I mean, uh the fact that you had the IRGC boasting about how they send in operatives through the boats here shows you that there are no checks. Because we hadn't heard that before.

SPEAKER_13 11:49

It had to come from Iran. A few days earlier, Layla had been in Clackton campaigning with Nigel. When he arrived, they swapped stories about her visit.

SPEAKER_14 11:58

I have fresh crab at the beach.

SPEAKER_08 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 12:00

We did a video about how you're stealing all Londoners and I'm gonna lure them back.

SPEAKER_08 12:05

The pub was hilarious.

SPEAKER_14 12:07

Hilarious. They were gonna kill themselves running over the the woman. She's like, Oh my god, oh my god, I can't believe it's Nigel. I love him so much. I love him so much.

SPEAKER_08 12:16

They've been awake for about four hours. I I I feel we were on the other side of a busy road. Yeah. And I fear she was gonna just run across the road.

SPEAKER_14 12:23

And they were in a funeral. And they were in a funeral.

SPEAKER_08 12:26

Well, I couldn't believe it. I mean, all these people hugging me. So was it one woman who said, Oh, this is the best funeral I've ever been to.

SPEAKER_14 12:34

That's a good line.

SPEAKER_08 12:35

It was extraordinary.

SPEAKER_14 12:37

And the women were like, and I'm like, this gives another meaning to ladies' man. The women were like attached to him. But you but Nigel, it's the same in America, by the way. We had people stopping us in America, going, Oh my god, it's Nigel Farage. I'm not going to London, Nigel, until you're Prime Minister.

SPEAKER_13 12:54

The conversation then turned to something more serious. A question Zia had faced in his media appearances. What would reform do if France refused to take back the migrants?

SPEAKER_07 13:05

Yeah, and it's interesting. When I pushed them on that, was well, what do you mean? Well, what if he literally and then Richard Maidley says, What if the French Navy stop you? And then I and then I said, Well, the idea that Macron would order the Navy to push a boat full of civilians back out to sea. And then she goes, You never mentioned the navy. No one mentioned the navy. I'm like, well, you want to play the tape back?

SPEAKER_08 13:24

Your colleague lit. While we're on the Navy, if we've given a billion quid to the French, why the French Navy escorting dinghies from 200 yards off the beach all the way to the 12 mile line? The handover. That was my biggest video of the year. When I expose the handover, people say this can't be happening. But it's still happening every day. 100%.

SPEAKER_07 13:41

I say that so I lifted that. I'm actually putting it in the speech now and addressing it head on. That's the key point now, so our military would simply be help assisting the French adhere with their contract that they've agreed to. Their official line is they don't want the boats to leave.

SPEAKER_13 13:56

Zia, can I ask you a question? Yeah. So in the past, we've obviously said reformers said that leaving the ECHR would uh be enough to stop the boats. So why do we need Operation Fortress?

SPEAKER_07 14:08

Hold on. First of all, the ECHR just wanted many things that need to be done. Not just to stop the boats from coming, which is obviously a key focus of the policy today, deploying the military to say not a single unauthorised vessel where Nigel Forest is Prime Minister will ever make it to pretty short. They're going back to France. But we've also got to be crystal clear, there's well over a million illegal migrants already in Britain. So we have to leave the ECHR, right? You know, this is a problem that has persisted for so long. We need someone with the political courage to say, you know what, I actually believe our military are capable of intercepting dinghies full of unarmed people coming over to this country and taking them back to the country, which by the way is being paid a billion pounds by British taxpayers, thanks to the Tory and Labour governments, to stop these boats from coming. So we've saying enough is enough. But I also want to be crystal clear. If ever there is a choice under a reformed government, when I was prime minister, if ever there's a choice between some obscure article of some obscure international treaty and Britain having a sovereign border and the safety of British people, we will choose the safety of British people and a sovereign border for the United Kingdom. We've had Tory and Labour governments that are basically I mean I I use the word traitor a lot, and I've been attacked for that, but the definition of a traitor is somebody who's engaging in betrayal. Right? And I don't know how else to describe what has happened to this country. And the very people who swore an oath to uh defend the realm and to look after the interests of the British people, namely the Tory ministers, the Tory politicians, and the Labour ministers and politicians currently they have betrayed the British people. We're gonna turn all of that around. There is still time to do it, time is short. We are up against it. It is gonna be extremely difficult. Nobody's arguing otherwise, but we're gonna do it, and you better believe it.

SPEAKER_13 16:00

Do you remember when Greenpeace used to go out and try and stop the whalers? Could you anticipate a situation where we see sort of, you know, left-wing vessels going out trying to stop the Royal Navy?

SPEAKER_07 16:10

They would be interfering with a military operation being conducted by his Majesty's Royal Marines. I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_13 16:16

Next, I asked Nigel how he expected the press and public to react to the policy.

SPEAKER_08 16:21

I think this passes the pub test. Tell me about the pub test. Well, the pub test is we have a Royal Navy and they're here to protect our island against invasion, so let's use them. But that's it. Boom, done. Common sense. Yeah, I mean, quite simple. Um the Conservatives looked at this in 2022, but didn't have the nerve to carry it out. And frankly, I don't see we're in breach of any international law. This is not turn back. Uh, you know, it is basically rescue and return. If we're paying the French a billion to stop them leaving, surely they can't refuse us sending a few back. Uh, we'll have to see how it goes with with the media, but I think it's something the public will say, yeah, I get it. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_13 17:00

We're going to move round to the other room. It was time for the press conference to begin. Nigel and Zier walked into the room, now packed with journalists, and stepped onto the stage.

SPEAKER_08 17:10

Good morning, everybody. I'm pleased this morning to be launching Operation Fortress.

SPEAKER_13 17:15

Nigel began by setting out how he believed the small boat's crisis had developed from the migration crisis that followed the war in Libya to the thousands now making the journey across the channel. But he argued that the consequences had gone far beyond illegal immigration.

SPEAKER_08 17:31

Repeatedly I've asked the Prime Minister, well, the last Prime Minister, Guest Arma in PMQs, whether he would declare a national security emergency. Two months ago, I told the Home Secretary and the House of Commons that I had it on the highest authority that the Iranian regime was using the channel crisis to put their own operatives across the English Channel. I was met by shouts of shame on you! Well, shame on them, because once again it proves that I was ahead of the curve on this, and indeed that is what is happening.

SPEAKER_13 18:09

Reform's proposal was to put the military at the centre of the response, using surveillance to identify boats, intercepting them in the channel, and returning those on board to France.

SPEAKER_07 18:20

First, we will create an integrated surveillance command, unifying military and intelligence surveillance to make ours the most veiled maritime border in the world. Second, any vessel attempting to cross illegally will be intercepted by our armed forces. We will return them back to France. Not a single illegal migrant trying to reach our shores will make it to Britain. To those with no right to enter Britain, our border will be impenetrable.

SPEAKER_13 18:54

But there was one big question. What if France refused Zia's answer was that the destination was not up for negotiation?

SPEAKER_07 19:02

Let me be crystal clear. A reformed government will show unflinching resolve to ensure that people who set out from France to break into Britain go back to France. That is our policy. Not a future negotiating position with the French government. What France gets to decide is how that happens. Now look, we would far rather disembark people in Portland, put people down a gangway and hand them to the French authorities properly. That is more dignified, and it is what we will negotiate. And keep in mind, the official position of the French government is that they do not want these boats leaving their shores in the first place. Tory and Labour governments have paid them, as not as said, a billion pounds of British taxpayer money to stop the boats ostensibly. Our military would in fact be helping them comply with the very agreements that they signed. But if the Elysee Palace refuses, make no mistake. His Majesty's Royal Marines will disembark them safely on the very shore they left that morning.

SPEAKER_13 20:16

The argument was simple. If people knew that attempting the crossing would result in being intercepted and returned to France, the incentive to make the journey would disappear. And Nigel made a key point about why he believed the Royal Navy should be the force to deliver it. After the press conference, Nigel trooped outside, flanked by dozens of journalists and photographers. Just meters from the Royal Tank Regiment Memorial was a huge mobile billboard. On its side was an image of migrants, and in capital letters, the words Europe is at breaking point. The slogan was a striking reminder of Nigel's infamous Breaking Point poster, unveiled during the 2016 EU referendum campaign. That image showed a huge queue of migrants crossing the European border. A warning, Nigel argued, that the EU's borderless system was driving migration towards Britain's doorstep. At the time he'd been accused of fear-mongering, but now the reality of the invasion was clear. The numbers did not lie, and the threat was too serious to ignore.

SPEAKER_08 21:38

I did this 11 years ago, no one took it seriously. Maybe they will now.

SPEAKER_20 22:00

Living in all sorts of squalid conditions, ready to make that journey across the China.

SPEAKER_13 22:05

The next morning, I was driving back to Clacton to join Nigel on his by-election campaign with GB News on the radio.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Are you seeing the presence of French police, French authorities in a migrant camper on the beaches this morning?

SPEAKER_13 22:19

Overnight, Reform UK Chairman Lee Anderson had travelled to France to visit the migrant camps in Calais.

SPEAKER_20 22:25

Yeah, well, don't worry about that. As soon as we rocked into about 4am this morning, uh with our high viz jackets on and a few cameras, within minutes, the uh the French police, armed to the teeth, turned up with the tear gas on. Uh and that's what we were doing. They asked to see our ID, uh, they have to press the press people to see their press passers, and they was, you know, they stopped us going on the beach at one stage, and I thought, my word, if only they could be as uh so proactive when the illegal migrants are trying to jump on a dinghy and get to the UK.

SPEAKER_13 22:59

It was the 4th of August, and at Reform's Clacton Campaign HQ, I found history buff Nigel reflecting on the significance of the date.

SPEAKER_08 23:07

4th of August was a bank holiday in 1914. Did you know that, right? 4th of August? So the August Bank Holiday, which we now have at the end of the month, used to be at the start of the month.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 23:21

And the 4th of August 1914 was a bank holiday, and the country was celebrating village fates, everybody having enormous fun. But to their shock and horror, war broke out.

SPEAKER_09 23:35

Well, no.

SPEAKER_08 23:36

The war broke out on the bank holiday, and people were in just disbelief. Really? War what war? What's going on? Yeah. Oh, some chap got shot a few months ago. No, really. Wow. It all it all sort of careered at speed over about four days. I remember speaking to one bloke, he said to me, he said, I was I was I was trying to I was trying to get the boat train over to France for the day. So I got to Victoria Station and it said trains cancelled due to war. He said, War on a bag holiday? Yeah, there we go. Good story, isn't it?

SPEAKER_13 24:12

Nigel's story reminded me of our absent Prime Minister, and I wondered what he thought of Burnham's decision to take a holiday just days into office. Nigel, I've got to ask you. Andy Burnham's gone on holiday.

SPEAKER_08 24:26

Well, Burnham's gone on holiday. I mean, two weeks into a new job, no one goes on holiday.

SPEAKER_09 24:31

I can't, I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_08 24:32

I mean, if I employed somebody who after a fortnight said the guy, I said, Well, do you know what, mate, stay away.

SPEAKER_10 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 24:38

I mean, I literally would. Um, I get it, but it just shows you. It just shows you how these people who've been part of big party machines have never had to work and strive the way that I have. And I really mean that.

SPEAKER_13 24:52

Recently, we'd also learned that two men convicted of the manslaughter of P.C. Andrew Harper could be eligible for Andy Burnham's early prisoner release scheme. Nigel told me he was beginning to see parallels between Burnham and former Conservative Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

SPEAKER_08 25:08

Boris liked to tell people things he thought they wanted to hear. I'm going to get tough on early prisoner releases. And suddenly, P. C. Harper's widow is horrified that despite that being said, his killers will be released early. And so what you're seeing is, yeah, he wants to be all smiley, nice, cuddly. Look at the shirts I wear. Um, and I'm going to tell you everything's absolutely gorgeous and wonderful, but in reality, I'm not going to do it. And I think that's very, very interesting. It's not just that, there are other one or two other areas as well. But we're already seeing somebody that wants to be popular. And leaders that want to be popular never prosper. Good leaders do things that are very, very difficult. Good leaders make decisions that are unpopular. Uh Thatcher did it. Blair did it. Now, as it turned out with Blair, the Iraq war was a disaster. Um, but there are other things that Blair did that people thought, well, why is he doing that? But leadership is about saying to the country, we're doing this because, all right, it's not easy, but we have to do it, and we invite you to come on the journey with us. And clearly, Burnham is beginning to show some signs of followership and not leadership. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_13 26:18

I heard somebody on LBC today saying that perhaps this holiday was expecting Starmer to kind of stay on be caretaker PM for you know throughout the summer. So he's booked this holiday and he's decided he's still going on it because he wasn't really prepared to step into the job. But if somebody made you Prime Minister tomorrow, there's no I can't believe for a second you would go away after two weeks.

SPEAKER_08 26:41

No, it's it's completely unfathomable.

SPEAKER_13 26:43

Two years, maybe.

SPEAKER_08 26:44

I mean, it's completely unfathomable.

SPEAKER_13 26:45

I mean, what sort of message does that send to the country as well?

SPEAKER_08 26:48

Yeah, but it sort of smacks a complacency ever slightly. Funny, isn't it? He's just sort of happened into the job. He's happened into the job. Mostly quite extraordinary. So I think it's a very odd decision. Oh, it's more coffee, it would love it.

SPEAKER_13 27:02

Later, as we were canvassing, I asked residents how they felt about Burnham's decision to go away so soon. Burnham's been PM for two weeks and he's gone on his holidays. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_16 27:12

But uh I don't know, I don't really have a view really.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

You know, he's everyone's in terms of a break, but it's only been in for two weeks. A little bit, yeah, perhaps a little bit too soon.

SPEAKER_16 27:23

He's set his stall out, but he hasn't actually done anything to show what he's really going to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

We'd never voted for him. Shouldn't be there in the first place.

SPEAKER_16 27:29

Nobody did.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

No.

SPEAKER_13 27:30

Bakerfield voted for him, but not to be Prime Minister.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

This is it. This is it, it's all snuck in the world.

SPEAKER_13 27:35

Would you ever have had a job that you've just started and then left to take holiday after two weeks? No. No, of course not. Time cracked different glasses, isn't it? I could have thought we'd go on all the lake for two weeks. I can't.

SPEAKER_05 27:47

Oh my goodness, we're a bit go then, that's a good start.

SPEAKER_11 27:53

That's bad, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 27:54

That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_11 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_16 27:56

You know, you're supposed to be running the country. You're a new Prime Minister, you in my opinion, you'd you'd want to be here.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

I've been in the building trade all of my life. It's like starting a building project, and after two weeks saying to the customer, um, you just have to live with it for the next two weeks because I'm going on holiday, and they say, but I've got no windows in, uh, all the back of the house is left open, and I say, Well, it's tough luck. The back of number 10's all open. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 28:23

Raheem Kassan, editor of the National Pulse, warned it could be a sign of something more serious.

SPEAKER_18 28:28

Well, maybe he figured out it's not cut out for it. Maybe it was too hard for him after two weeks.

SPEAKER_13 28:33

I was wondering, does he have what it takes? I mean, it's it's it's one thing to want something, but it's another thing to live it, to breathe it, to actually do it.

SPEAKER_18 28:40

Well, you know, he's got thousands in the last couple of weeks in the channel. And he's got no answer to it. And so he's probably looked at it and gone, I better make myself scarce.

SPEAKER_13 28:52

Raheem had a point. Just that morning we'd seen shocking images of an overloaded small boat on fire in the channel. It had been carrying the 173 people when its engine caught fire and began to break apart. The passengers were all returned safely to Boulogne by French and British rescue teams. Nigel told me not only did it illustrate the desperate need to stop these dangerous crossings, but also that the principles of Operation Fortress were feasible.

SPEAKER_08 29:20

Well look, what happened today? Uh, ten miles south of Boulogne, um, a boat got into serious trouble, the engine caught fire. Luckily it was calm, luckily the tide wasn't screaming. Luckily, there were two French naval vessels next to them, so it looks like everyone got picked up. Not without the Eastbourne boat going all the way over the channel. An RN ally boat picked people up and dropped them back in Boulogne. Just shows you we can take people back to France.

SPEAKER_13 29:50

On Thursday, ZIA announced another tough policy designed to discourage illegal migration, this time specifically targeting the businesses benefiting from it.

SPEAKER_07 30:00

The Tories and Labour made Britain one of the softest-touched countries on earth for illegal workers. They created an ecosystem in which illegal migrants are funneled directly into our national economy, driving down wages and funding the despicable people smuggling gangs operating across the Channel.

SPEAKER_13 30:20

His focus was particularly on the gig economy, where reform says workers have been able to use accounts registered to other people.

SPEAKER_07 30:28

That's why Reform UK will introduce the delivery law. Under this legislation, company directors will be held personally and criminally liable for systemic illegal working within their businesses, regardless of whether they claim personal knowledge of individual breaches.

SPEAKER_13 30:44

The party's plan would put responsibility at the top of the corporate chain, with executives potentially facing prison, while the companies themselves could be hit with a substantial financial penalty.

SPEAKER_07 30:55

Alongside prison sentences for directors, Reform UK will impose crippling financial consequences on the corporations themselves. Large companies that exploit illegal labour will face fines of 10% of their annual worldwide turnover.

SPEAKER_13 31:09

But the idea went beyond delivery riders and multinational companies.

SPEAKER_07 31:29

Under Reform UK, Britain will no longer be a soft up. We will establish the toughest penalties anywhere in the world to end illegal working and stand up for British workers.

SPEAKER_13 31:41

It was another piece of reform's wider strategy, tackling the reasons people come to Britain illegally as well as the boats that bring them here. By removing a migrant's ability to work illegally, one of the incentives to make the journey disappears. Following her horrific murder, the organisers decided to go ahead, but her presence was clearly missed.

SPEAKER_09 32:35

Anne's father was actually born in Salt Ash, and her mother was born in Plymouth. So she's very much a Devon Stroke Cornwall girl originally. And when she came back to live in Dartmoor, she told me on the numerous trips that we go together to various places that she felt very much that she'd come at home.

SPEAKER_13 32:57

Event host Paul Mills said he had worked with Anne for many years and told me she'd been a huge inspiration. How important was it for you to be here today and to pay that tribute to her at the beginning with a minute's silence?

SPEAKER_09 33:09

Oh, it's essential. Anne was both a friend and a mentor. She didn't know she was my mentor, but she was my mentor. And she would, if you asked her to go to any event and speak, she'd go anywhere and everywhere without question. She was, as a human being, she was wonderful. And as uh a political she was a political colossus effect effectively. So it was important to do that tonight, and the people in the room would have wanted that, and I think you've you would have seen that they thought it was appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Hi Lee, you're right. Hi, but how are you doing? Yeah, good. A bit stiff. About seven hours in court. Dear dear dear dear.

SPEAKER_13 33:46

When Lee arrived, we were shown into a conference room. I wanted to find out about his trip to Calais. What had he seen, his encounters with illegal immigrants, and what happened when French police confronted his team. Right, um, how you feeling? Got back when?

SPEAKER_20 34:03

Uh, when'd I get back? We got back Wednesday afternoon, so we were up Wednesday really early again, about 5am, went on to the beach, didn't see much um on the beach. Again, we got accosted again by the um by the police.

SPEAKER_12 34:18

Hello guys, can we uh can you come please? Thank you. Can you stop the recorder with your phone, please?

SPEAKER_20 34:23

French police cars just stopped us, and they thought that we were illegal migrants going to the beach to attempt the crossing, you know. All English speaking, and uh we've all got Ivory's jackets on that says press on the bike, and then they're all carrying cameras. There's no wonder we've got a problem. And then we decided after spending a few hours there we were going to grab a bite to eat. So we was driving down this carriageway past the camp where we'd been the day before, and we saw loads of police there. I mean a lot, a lot of police, police vans, buses, big wagons, and we saw the migrants moving off the camp. They were taking their belongings, their tents, their mattresses, and we thought it'd been a raid. So we uh we climbed down the banking. Probably shouldn't have, but we did. We um tried to get close up to the camp, but the police dashed out and stopped us and cleared us off and took us idea again. But we did find out that um they're supposedly developing that area at some stage, next right next to the nuclear power station. Um and there was clearing the land basically with what the diggers in and the scrapers and um goodness knows where the migrants were gonna go. They'll probably set up camp, you know, just a mile or so or a few miles down the road. But yeah, it was um terrible conditions, or awful to see.

SPEAKER_13 35:40

But why did you want to go there in the first place? What prompted it?

SPEAKER_20 35:43

Uh well I went three and a half years ago with the Home Affairs Select Committee, and um I always wanted to return and I got the opportunity. Got a call last week saying do you do you want to go back? And I says yes, because I want to see how it is now compared to how it was three and a half years ago. And um it didn't shock me or surprise me, um, but it was different in that when I first went it was all men, all from Eritrea, Sudan, African countries. This time there was a lot of children there, a lot of women, uh still a lot of men, uh hell of a lot of men. Uh but more, it's like two and a half thousand people in this camp, and it was like a a community. They've got tents set up, they were selling stuff, they've got mobile phones, they got chargers, they got food, they got all sorts of little tents set up, like a proper community. They got running water, which they don't think they had last time, and they got toilets set up, which they didn't have, they definitely didn't have last time. And the NGO was there, and the whole time we were there, the only time we got really any abuse, I mean we got some abuse off some of the migrants, they were very angry, quite clear they got some mental health issues, some of them.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

Let's go, let's go. What the floor let's go, I'd frozen. Go into a HML on the street when they use that, is trust me.

SPEAKER_20 37:07

Uh but the only time we got um any nasty verbals was from the NGOs, the one the uh the charity workers and the police. And um, you know, we were being asked for ID outside a migrant camp, and I'm thinking, my goodness, it's two and a half thousand people there, not one of them's got a passport or any ID.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_20 37:26

Uh and you're asking us, we entered the country legally a day before, um, showing us papers, showing us passport, and you're asking us for ID.

SPEAKER_13 37:35

What were they hoping to find by looking at your ID? I mean, could there have been something that would then they would say, Well, you have no right to be here, which seems a bit ironic.

SPEAKER_20 37:42

It's no, it's it's unbelievable. And like I said, we entered the country legally. Yeah, once you're in a in France, you you would think you'd be able to walk around as long as you're not breaking the law. Um and they was more interested in the identity of us and where we were from and what we were doing, rather than the illegal migrants. And Barry Martins, you know, uh make no bones about it, there were there would have been dozens of criminals in that migrant camp, and there'd be a lot of them come to the the UK and commit awful crimes here. Yeah, it's us. They were challenging.

SPEAKER_13 38:13

Not your first rodeo, you'd been there before, you've just seen it again. Was there anything shocking about it for you?

SPEAKER_20 38:20

Again, I always go back to the NGOs, the charities. It's um young girls walking around the camp through these young men. Saw it last time where they were holding hands and cuddling and and comforting these these these men, and I'm thinking, you know what, love? Two pins, and if nobody were looking, you'd be in serious trouble with some of these men here in these camps. What the hell are you playing at? You're basically you're encouraging these young men to come and the families now. You're enc you you're giving them hope, uh, hope of a better life. You know, these these people could actually claim asylum in France or Germany or any other of the six or seven countries they've travelled through, but they choose to come to the UK. And when I say to the you know, when I say to these idiots in Parliament why are they coming to the UK and when they can stop in France, th the default answer always is yeah, it's it's the language, they can speak English. They couldn't speak English. You know, we we found one or two that got a little bit. The vast majority hadn't got a clue what we're saying. They've been sold a dream that they can come to a they can move out of that squalor in that camp, that disease-ridden camp, and within twenty-four hours, if they're lucky enough to make the journey, they can be in a hotel.

SPEAKER_13 39:28

So they're facilitating it effectively, facilitating and encouraging They're the part of the trade.

SPEAKER_20 39:34

It goes from the people smugglers, the dinghy makers, the the moat the engine makers, the uh the charities, the um the hotels, the bus drivers when they get to Dover, ferrying them to the um hotels, the HMO owners, circo, the lefty lawyers, the human rights lawyers, it's all part of a billion, multi-billion pound trade, and the NGOs are part of it. An industry has grown around this.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_20 39:57

It's an industry in in moving people around the world, and uh you know what, you I don't you don't have to be that clever to do it, you just find a dinghy. Because we actually went to the camp, we saw the route that they walked through to to the to the sand dunes to the beach. So this is the pathway which the migrants use up to the beach there. This seas just about 50 metres over there, but just here, this is interesting, there's like a um a hiding place where the migrants will will sit in here, probably all huddled up together. They'll wait here, get ready for the signal. As soon as the signal comes, then they're up the pathway. There's another pathway here into the dinghy, next stop, the UK. You know, we saw where they hide in the sand dunes. They've got a couple of dens there where they hide, ready to leap out and run towards the the beach. And I'm thinking, you know what, it wouldn't take that much to stop them, really. Um they got right next to a nuclear power station, PDF. Which doesn't seem very wise. Uh which doesn't seem very wise, but the amount of security in cameras around that power station is is unbelievable. Um right next to the um spot where the the illegals jump on a raft and and sail to the UK.

unknown 41:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_13 41:11

And you saw as well some leaflets, didn't you, in multiple languages giving advice on how to cross the channel safely.

SPEAKER_20 41:19

So I've just found this um this sheet in the migrant camp on how to cross the channel safely. And there's a QR code here, if you see that closely. I don't know back home if you can click on that QR code and just see where it takes you, and you will be amazed.

SPEAKER_13 41:35

On the one hand, I could see why an NGO or other organisation might want to provide that to them. I guess in a way you could argue they're they're advising them of the dangers. On the other hand, you could say they are again helping and facilitating to make that crossing.

SPEAKER_20 41:49

Well, when you're an illegal migrant and you're in these camps and you've got British, English young girls helping you, clothing you, feeding you, giving you shelter, trying to learn you how to speak English, and then doling out or giving out instruction sheets on how to cross the channel and how to do it safely, it's not beyond the realms for them to actually believe that British people want them here. Their first contact with British people is people feeding them, clothing them, looking after them, and then telling them how to cross the channel safely. That's their first experience. So they're coming across thinking, oh, these people want us.

SPEAKER_13 42:26

Just to go back to the police quickly, do you think that they were really concerned about making sure the right people were in these areas where they you know people are you know, you can say they're vulnerable people, but or or were they worried more about you filming it and exposing what was happening?

SPEAKER_20 42:41

I think that's it. I think the um and I don't blame I mean I I get a little bit angry with the French police and the gendarme and and their politicians, but it's not their fault at the end of the day. You know, they're taking lots of money from us and fair play to them for that. I mean, we must be mugs giving them all that money. But like I say, when I went three and a half years ago, the French police and the gendarme said to us, Well, the poor factors are so great, you're putting them up in hotels, you know, you you're granting asylum to nearly all of them. Why should we stop them? You've got British girls working on in the camps looking after 'em. It's the poor factor. You're literally encouraging these young men to come across the channel to come to northern France. And then you expect us to stop them.

SPEAKER_13 43:22

Was it mainly female NGO workers? Were they male as well?

SPEAKER_20 43:25

Yeah, there were a few males, yeah, but it's main it's mainly your pink and pink air brigade and your purple air brigade and yeah, your open borders, with we don't want passports. Yeah, uh you know, never had a proper job in their life. Uh that sort of person. Um yeah, just um well, dangerous.

SPEAKER_13 43:42

And you spoke to some migrants who told you that they wanted to get to England?

SPEAKER_20 43:47

Yeah, we had a translators with us, uh, who spoke Arabic um French, but yeah, we did speak to some who were Arabic speaking. And they said, Yeah, they're coming to England.

SPEAKER_19 43:58

How much did it cost you? How much money? I pay money. How much? 1200 euro. I'm not going to UK, I'm going to Scotland. Yeah, I like it. The world.

SPEAKER_20 44:12

But there's one. He was I think it was from Somalia. He tried six times to get across the channel. And he paid his money, so he gets a he gets to keep trying once he's paid his cash. And um he says, I'm coming. He said, I'm going to Scotland. He then went on to tell us off off camera that he was going to hurt people and stab people. He wanted to kidnap the young girl that was with us and and rape her. Yeah, you said it. And I thought, well, this creature's going to be in a hotel in two or three weeks' time in in the UK somewhere. And then we scratched our heads wondering why these uh these people come over and commit awful crimes.

SPEAKER_13 44:51

Did visiting these camps change your assessment of the security risks that are posed by these people that are gathering there in France?

SPEAKER_20 44:59

I'm not sure about that to be honest. Um they are a risk, but what I noticed this time is the camp we went to was way out of town. So it was in the middle of nowhere next to um uh a Joe Carriageway. When I went before, the camp was near the town, so they could so the migrants were going in and thieving and robbing and breaking into stuff and doing all sorts of nasty stuff, but now they're a little bit out of the way. But the NGOs have bought all they need to them. So they've got the toilets, they've got the water, they've got the clothing, they've got the food, and that sort of stuff. So they pretty much hid away. Well, the camp we saw was was hid away. If you weren't looking for it, you you probably wouldn't notice it. Uh, but there was like I say two and a half thousand in this camp. Wow.

SPEAKER_13 45:44

The day that you left, the Monday, Reform UK launched Operation Fortress, and I know you did quite a lot of media while you were away, um, what were the journalists asking you? And were you surprised by any of the questions?

SPEAKER_20 45:57

What was the journalists are okay, they're pretty on board. Um, but I mean, one didn't mention you know what would you do if France refused to have them? And I keep pressing the point that why would France refuse to to cooperate when it would solve their migrant problem as well.

SPEAKER_13 46:13

That's what I don't get. If if if they couldn't get across to England, they would stop going to France.

SPEAKER_20 46:17

Yeah, they'd stop coming, there'd be no camps in northern France, there'd be no people smugglers in northern France, it'd be completely pointless setting up camp there, they'd go somewhere else or or you know, not even make that journey. So it's in France's best interest to to help us rather than just keep taking you know close on a billion pounds off us. If if we can stop the pull factor and stop them camping in northern France, then everyone's a winner.

SPEAKER_13 46:40

What message would you give to listeners to this podcast?

SPEAKER_20 46:44

We've been taken for a ride. Um, like I say, it's a multi-billion pound trade, lots of people are making lots and lots of money out of it. Money from the British taxpayer, they're paying out the pay packet for this, and they're suffering the social consequences as well. Crimes up, our prisons are filling up with some of these people that's arriving here, women are getting raped and people are getting murdered. We've got mothers, families concerned about the kids going to school, where there's a Margan Totel or HMOs copping up all over the place. It's completely changing the whole fabric of our society. Uh, and just to rub our noses in it, it's coming out of our pay package.

SPEAKER_13 47:23

And just finally, this is the latest leg on your chairman's tour. Why are events like this here in Plymouth tonight so important?

SPEAKER_20 47:28

Uh well, I've done a lot of travel, it took me seven hours to get here in the car. Um, it's important because, you know, I've been in other political parties where they've forgotten about the membership. Without the membership, paying the subs and knocking on doors and delivering leaflets and making phone calls, we can't do anything. You know, there's only seven seven of us in parliament, soon to be eight when Nigel gets uh re-elected. Uh, but we've got an army of nearly 300,000 people out there who who make it worthwhile. And I know when I go in that room tonight I'll get a good reception. I shall speak to them for probably 30 minutes and I'll get a good reception at the end, and then speak to a lot of them personally. And it's basically it's to say a big thank you, is to say thank you for for being there for us. Because when I get up in Parliament to speak and Nigel and the rest, it's a very lonely place. You know, you're getting jeered out, and and you know, it's nasty to try and shut you up, they try and talk you down or shout you down. But I know when I stand up in Parliament, I'm speaking for these these people here, and there's there's millions of them. Um so it's my way of saying thank you.

SPEAKER_13 48:36

The Reform UK podcast was produced and presented by me, Ray Addison. Thanks to both polls, Nigel, Zia, Lee, the people of Clacton and Plymouth, and of course you for listening. If you'd like to chat about the show, you can join the Reform UK podcast community on Facebook. You can also follow me at Ray Addison Live on X. We'll be back on Monday with a special exclusive interview with Nigel following the results of the Clacton by election. Goodbye.