The Heartlands

Welcome to The Outlaw Haven podcast! In this episode we go in depth about The Heartlands, the town of Valentine, Emerald Ranch, it's also home to curses, serial killers, family secrets, UFOs, O’Driscoll's, treasure hunters and so much more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

By 1899, the Age of Outlaws and Gunslingers was at an end, and we've been mourning it ever since. Welcome to the Outlaw Haven, your home for Red Dead Redemption in the Wild West. I'm Sam. I'm Czar. Today we are talking about the Heartlands. The Heartlands is one of the many regions within Red Dead Redemption 2 and arguably the most popular area in the game. Its geographical location is similar to the real town of Valentine in western Nebraska. The Heartlands are a vast region of open grasslands in New Hanover overlooking the mountains to the north and the Flatiron Lake in West Elizabeth to the south. The Heartlands is a favorite to many because this is where the game opens up to Free Room and our first camp at Horseshoe Overlook near Valentine, which we will get into more next week. This week we are taking a deeper look into the Heartlands, home to wildlife like bison, pronghorn, white-tailed deer, turkeys, and rabbits. It's also home to curses, serial killers, family secrets, UFOs, O'Driscolls, treasure hunters, and so much more. To many of us, the Heartlands feel like home, particularly Valentine. Valentine is the first town we get a good look at in the story, as Josea would describe it as all mud and morons, but it also includes a general store, doctor's office, gunsmith, hotel, bank, sheriff's office, stables, a small theater, train station, and two saloons. Oh, and a curse. So I didn't I I don't think I knew that Valentine was cursed. I don't think I've heard about this. Oh really?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I think I first stumbled across it on a strange man video. And it's basically all kind of cut content from my understanding. But it's mentioned like in the game as well, like in Horseshoe Overlook, Mary Beth and Karen will talk about Valentine after you go there.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, I do think I remember hearing Mary Beth talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Mm-hmm. Um because yeah, she'll kind of of course immediately be like be like, oh, a town, a curse, so romantic. But everyone kind of in that town like basically blames their bad luck on like the supposed curse that Valentine has. But if you listen around town and like to all the different lines, you can hear some of the like you can hear the shopkeeper and the barber in uh Smithfields talk about how some blame the Native Americans because if you look into the game files, there's a map that was originally cut, it's was torn into two four pieces, and you were supposed to go around the map and find them all. And of course, they were all drawn on, and when you put it together, of course you got a map kind of similar to how the like serial killer maps work, and put together it shows Native Americans and settlers fighting, and then but the entire scenery matches like the scenery around like the heartlands we can see on the hills of Amberino to the north, and then like the hills of Cumberland Forest and whatnot. That's cool. Right? And it's interesting because there's also way more, too. There's artifacts that were deleted. There was supposedly going to be another like mask, kind of like similar to the masks you can get in Reddit Online from Madame Nazar, like the Halloween-looking ones. That was supposed to be like a Native American mask, and that's kind of really all there is with the curse. It doesn't go anywhere further than just like dialogue in town, because of course it was cut content. But it would have been, yeah, kind of interesting to see, but it's like it makes sense after like everything that there is in Emerald Ranch, kind of why they cut it at the same time. Yeah. But in town, other than the curse, of course, there's a few little interesting events you can have. When you first do the first bounty that after Uncle suggests that, oh, you can bounty hunt. When you do the Benedict Albright bounty, which we'll get into in a different episode, when you bring him back, when you bring Benedict Albright back into the sheriff's office, he will be talking with a woman. Sheriff Mallow is talking with his mistress named uh Moira, but it's a short cutscene. She leaves, doesn't say any dialogue. You just interrupt them. Yeah. Um awkward. Very after this conversation. If you go upstairs to the sheriff's office, you can hear Sheriff Malloy yelling at his mistress. And uh he full-on kills her.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Um I've never gotten this. Like I never thought to like go creep on them. You just go outside the sheriff's and go up the stairs behind the building.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah. Yeah, not even behind the building, just the one one that's on the side. Because if you yeah, go up the one inside and on the back, it's got the back door. And if you stand there, you can hear the whole argument and then him choking out his wife. Or his mistress. Or his mistress, yeah. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

I'll have to there's so many times like when we're talking about this on here that I'm like, damn, I've never had that happen. I need to go play another playthrough.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Right. Yeah. And then there's the peeping tom.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

The peeping tom, which I mean the houses, it's like across the street from what's the other saloon? It's just a saloon, isn't it? Not Smithfield's the other one. The little saloon that you get to touch. If you go across the street to that house by the like the sheep farm area, you can find a couple guys peeking in a window.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

And then afterwards you can peek in yourself and just see the couple lower your honor a little bit. You lower your honor, but yeah, they're just completely like three shoots to the wind.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Oh, rock star. I love them. Then there's the veteran that isn't a veteran, but he just needs a hug. Mickey. Do you hug him? You probably don't. I you're coming up when you play.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Occasionally. I think you would just antagonize Mickey. At first I did, kind of when he was when like he actually tells you that like he's not a veteran. I'm like, eh, that's interesting. But then I feel like I'm like that way with like so many of the like random encounters in town now. I'm just like, okay, I know what you are. Skip right by it. Yeah, same. One I didn't get for a very long time, I didn't even know it was in the game, was the killer prostitute.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, it took me a while to find that one too.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah. If you go into Valentine at night, you can find a prostitute covered in blood outside of the Smithfield saloon. And she'll ask you for help. And if you go upstairs, she'll lead you into a uh bedroom with a guy just sprawled out on the bed dead. And you can either carry him to like the pig pen, kind of by one of the houses. Yeah. Or um right outside. You can like not help her at all, or you can actually hog tie her and bring her into the sheriff's station, and I think you get like 10 bucks, and then you can see her actually hang later on. Oh, I didn't know you could see her hang. I knew you could turn her in. I just didn't know there's more to it. At least I think you can see her hang. I might be wrong about that. I might be thinking of a different bounty. Hmm. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

There's also the the theater. Oh, yeah. Have you gone in and watched it?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

I've watched some of them. I'm like, I need to go in and watch like all of the shows and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah. I can't remember what the only thing I remember about the uh the Valentine one was that it was about like why bears hibernate. How the bear like hibernated over winter and when it came out then all the other animals were dead or something. At least that's what I remember of it. It's been a while since I did that one.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Josiah. He's got it's a nod to Red Dead One, and I think there's a bunch of like articles in like the Red Dead Redemption 1 newspaper. That would be kind of a cool episode. Just newspapers.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah, seriously, the newspapers are full of so much stuff. Full of so much.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Especially with Red Dead 2 and Red Dead One combined.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Right. There's quite a few other encounters in Valentine, but they're all like you find the one guy like beating his wife, or you find the duel fighting and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

And then of course there's like the Stranger Missions and stuff you can start there too, which we'll get into a little bit of a bit.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

We're gonna say I think we're gonna have a whole uh separate episode just for Stranger Missions.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, definitely. That's so much, so much. But since we're kind of it's by Valentine, if you go to the train tracks, right where like there's a little tiny bridge right before you get into by the train station, you can find a very graphic scene. It's a sight to behold. You walk up, there's a trail of blood that literally leads you up to it. But I think there's some limbs and stuff there too. Yeah, um, there's a arm or a leg or something on the rock. There's painted in white. I don't think it's painted in blood, I think it's just white paint, but it's look at my works, and then we find strung up a torso a torso, and then a little bit to the left, there's the head with a rolled-up map sticking out of its mouth, and then you can go ahead and collect the map. That'll give you one of the three parts of the serial killer. There's two other parts to it. One Scarlet Meadows and the other is Scarlet Meadows. The other I think is Big Valley.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I always forget where the one in Big Valley is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah, when you get close enough to it. I know it's along the railroad tracks, kind of like if you follow from Wallace Station.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

It's oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

It's pretty close to Wallace Station.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, because I'm like the one in Scarlet Meadows, that's right on the road by uh Braithwaite's.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Yeah, that tree is so creepy.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Oh my god. Yeah, that's probably my favorite of the three clues. Yeah, that one's cool. And then of course, if you collect all three of the maps, it'll show you like a combination to a lock, and then it'll take you to Lucky's Cabin, which is just a little bit outside of Valentine. And you can, of course, explore in there, find bounty posters, newspaper articles, to body parts, and if you continue to the back, you can inspect, I forget what it is you inspect, but you inspect something on the ground, and then the serial killer comes and like puts you into a uh quick time event where if you don't throw a skull at him fast enough, he'll actually kill you. But you can tackle him and yeah, hogtie him, take him to jail, and um yeah, you'll see him hang, and his name's uh Edmund Lowry Jr. Jr. And oh wait, no, you won't actually see him hang because you shoot him because he goes and tries to attack the sheriff. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Forgot about that. Isn't he based off of like one of the real life serial killers?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I mean, obviously his name, Edmund, Ed Kemper, and I think there's a few others.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

I would have to replay the side mission and was it Kemper from like Wisconsin or something?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

No, that was Ed Gean. Oh okay. I think he's a little bit inspired by Geen too, but because Kemper, he was, if I remember correctly, mostly a SoCal. Oh, okay. At least later in his career. In his career, just climbing the corporate ladder. Yep. Anyway, I mean to be fair, he did work as a police officer, and that's how he kind of got away with it for a while. Anyway, this is not about serial killers. This isn't a serial killer. That was fun.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Anyway, speaking of secrets, let's get into Emerald Ranch's secret.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yes. You can go ahead and take that one since you kind of wrote about it a bit more.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

I did write about that one a bit more. Emerald Ranch, when you go there, it looks like it is a big place. Like there's a saloon, there's cabins, but when you go into the saloon, there's nothing there, it's just dusty and riddled with bullet holes. And if you go outside, there's a grave for Joshua Burgess. So the rancher of the rancher at Emerald Ranch is Eugene Wagner. He has a daughter named Miriam Wagner, and Joshua Burgess is Miriam's boyfriend. And everyone talks about how Emerald Ranch is a strange place and no one sees the rancher's daughter anymore. But apparently, if you go outside the big house at Emerald Ranch, you can see Miriam in the window at like 2 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

It's 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. and then 9 p.m. to 12 a.m. Well, maybe that's why I've never seen her.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I've never found her. That would probably explain it. But this is also where we go to the fence where we meet Seamus when we do the mission with Hosea, which we will talk about more when we get into the chapter two episode. But it is nice having the fence there because that's where you can sell your wagons and yeah, and the only spot where we can actually sell wagons. Yeah, that is. Yep. By the way. But that's pretty much it for Emerald Ranch, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Really? Yeah. I mean, of course. But we know about it. For yeah, but we know about it. I mean, we knew Miriam used to run like the general store, like across the street, which of course is why it's closed now. But there's a random encounter you can get, like, on the way to Emerald Ranch, where there's a woman that her horse fell over. And if you pick her up and take her back into Emerald Ranch, she'll kind of basically like talk about how it's kind of strange and whatnot. And you can hear from like the workers that Eugene like overworksome, and well, he will quite literally get into a fight with you if you stand in front of him long enough. I mean most of the MPs will.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah, that's true. So close to Emerald Ranch, there is is there is it actually called Hanny's brothel? Or Bethel. Bethel. It's called Henny's Bethel. Henny's Bethel. Okay. Not too far from Emerald Ranch, there's Hanny's Bethel. It's a broken down shack. And inside there are skeletons who have all poisoned themselves. And at the table in the back, there's a letter that tells us that if we come back at 2 a.m. something will happen. And sure enough, if we do that, UFO will appear. If you go to Mount Shan at 2 a.m., there's another UFO. Which we will talk about those two when we get into the uh the Easter eggs episode. But I want to find that letter. I want to read the actual letter that you find there. Because that one's so weird. The letter is called the Mysterious Sermon. The mysterious sermon says, at the second hour, under the half moon, by the great love and grace of our Savior Kakawaba. Kakawaba?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I have no cowbaunce that.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Kauaba. Voyager of time and galaxies. We cast off our corporal shells so his vessel can take our spirits to the promised realm to live in peace and power until the two two thousandth year, when we will return for the new chosen and worship once again at the peak of Mount Shan. In his love, we rejoice always. And then you find the UFO at Mount Shan too. I know it's based off of something. I guess we could just get into that when we have the uh yeah, when we get into the Easter eggs. What it's actually based off of, but that one. Like when I started playing Red Dead 2, I spent so much time just finding all of the Easter eggs, and the UFO was hands down my favorite. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Not too terribly far away from um Horseshoe Overlook. There's a burned down town that has a saloon, a general store, a sheriff's office, and a jailhouse and a few other buildings that we can't make out. But if we go into the jailhouse, there's two dead prisoners inside of the two cells, and they most likely died of smoke inhalation, is my best guess. Well, smoke inhalation inhalation or starvation, one of the two. And if we go inside the jailhouse, underneath the burnt desk, we can actually get a gold bar there. But outside of the saloon is kind of where things get interesting because there are multiple blue barrels that are wrecked outside. And they have Cornwall kerosene and tar written on them. So a lot of people are thinking that Cornwall either did this or somebody did this with Cornwall's like barrels, of course, to like make him look bad.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Um I never noticed that.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

My guess is it wouldn't be far off for Cornwall to really do something like this.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah. I can see it. Plus, there's also if you like that whole area of like trees and stuff is all burned. And if you go into the trees, I think they're on like the other side of the path that you come down from here.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, that's a little bit of ways away though.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

But yeah, but it's still burned. It's more burnt shit, and there's a camp there, and you can find I think a letter in that campsite.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I think so. I mean, I think there's at least two skeletons, but and yeah, a lot of people do contribute that to Cornwall's thing, but it's like for it to be so far away.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Not that far away, it's like across the street. I mean if someone was lighting limpany on fire, it could have spread that far.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Kind of, but at the same time, it's like why is none of the area between limpany horseshoe overlook and then the fire not burned at all? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

We can find whoever starts let's go ask Cornwall. Right. Have a chat. Have a chat.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

There's also, I mean, aside from that, there's also other random events like you can find a prospector who who's panning for gold in on the Dakota River, and all he ends up finding is a gold nugget, and you can steal it. Steal it off of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

I would steal his horse too.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Because you can't get that Dutch warm blood until chapter three.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

There's also the uh writing down by Limpany, there's the uh man that's trying to look at his horse's hoof and gets kicked and killed.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah, that's also you can get that by uh Emerald Ranch. Ooh, and Blind Man Cassidy. I love Blind Man Cassidy. We'll get into him way more when we do our strangers episode, even though really he isn't a stranger, it's just a random event. But he's a blind man that I mean break it down, it's just rock star telling us, you know, what the future of the games are, but it's really well done.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Um always gives you like a riddle that's relevant to what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yeah. And if you go down to the coast by flatneck station, you can find a dying man and he'll like come up and uh Arthur thinks he's already dead, or John you find it as, but right. I think he's already dead, and then he gives you a letter. Gives you a letter and And his like dying words are like tell her I never stopped. And if you read that letter, it's to a Miss Bonnie McFarlane. And of course, those who played Red Dead One know who she is, or even Red Dead Online. She, of course, owns McFarlane's ranch in New Austin. Of course, we'll get into that when we eventually get down there. And of course, in once we get into Red Dead One. Also, outside of Flatneck Station, we come across a guy named Phineas T. Ramsbottom.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Oh, yeah, no, I didn't have that one ready. Not what I would have guessed.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

But he has a bunch of cards and cigar cards and whatnot. But he gives you like the introduction to being able to collect all the cigar cards, and there's 12 sets of cigar cards, 12 cards in each of them. There's 144 total. I have never collected every single card. I want to. I haven't done that yet.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Like, you mean like actually going out and finding them, or you've never gotten all the cards?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

I've never gotten all of the cards.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Are you serious? You have to do it for 100%.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

You've uh you only have to do one set.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Oh yeah. I did way too much. I found them all. Well, I cheated kind of. I didn't go around and find them all.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah, just go into the general store and rip open the premiums.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

That's what I did too.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Smoke one and buy another one, smoke.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Oh, I just I don't even smoke it. I go into my satchel and discard all.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Oh, I was John for no reason. Oops.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Your poor stamina bar. John was suffering.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Standing in the general store just smoking 100 cigarettes to try and get all these cards.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Poor guy. But there's a whole bunch of different sets. The artwork on the cards are really cool. They're great.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

And at one point, like if you bought like the fancy edition of the game when you like, if you got the actual like box that Rockstar had, which I didn't, you have it, you lucky bastard. It doesn't it include some of the cigarette cards or a cigarette card?

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah, you get a um box that has one card from each of the sets.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Dude, if I would have known how much I would have been how much I was gonna be obsessed with this game when that game came out, I would have bought that. And I'm so pissed at myself for not.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah. I've I also I want to go through on I've seen on Etsy they have like actual like people have gone through and printed all of the secret cards. So cool. I really want to go through and just order the entire thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

I'm like, it would be a lot of money, but it'd be worth it. But also kind of by Flatneck Station, you can find a guy looking for a treasure map. His name is Maximo. He ends up, of course, giving up on the treasure hunt. He will sell you the map either for ten or five dollars. Or of course, if you're me, you can kill him and steal it off of him.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Which I have also done.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

But I'm giving you my ten dollars. No.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Meanwhile, Arthur has like three grand in his pocket.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yeah. But he will give you the map for the Jack Hall Gang treasure. And the first location is on Citadel Rock, which is just a little bit aways from Horseshoe Overlook. But we'll get into this when we do an episode on like the real life outlaws that inspired the gang. But the Jack Hall gang is very heavily inspired by the James Younger gang. And in camp, you can hear um renditions of the ballad of Jesse James and Cole Younger. And of course, Jesse James is Jack Hall, and I forget who Cole Younger is in the game. But yeah, we'll get we'll get into it when we do our episode on that.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Jack Hall song is based on the folklore Cole Younger, which tells the story of Outlaw Cole Younger. Both songs mention California, Nebraska, the robbery of a train owned by a company with Union in its name, and the Northfield Bank robbery.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

I mean that yeah. That would because well, yeah, I guess that would be the Cole Younger one because Jesse James is all I found. Sorry. Talking about his death and his three kids, even though there were technically two kids.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

So getting into more of the uh side missions and things that in Valentine we meet Theodore Levin, who is a writer having a drink at the saloon with Jim Boy Callaway. And we have to go take his pictures that he gives us and go find Emmett Granger, Black Bell, Billy Midnight, and Flacco Hernandez. And Jimboy Callaway is hanging on by a thread, let's be real. But Jim Boy Callaway, while we were doing research for this episode, tell him what you learned, say what did we learn about Jimboy Callaway?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

White literally learned this like 20 seconds ago. Jim Boy Calloway is actually related to the doctor and Valentine, Ben Callaway, their cousins. And those of you who have gone around to the back of that doctor's office know that there is a heavy steel door around the back of it. And if you look in there, you'll notice a familiar Irish accent who which brings us into, I guess honestly, the Odrisculls, they're pretty big around the heartlands. But in the back of this doctor's office, when you find that they're running a little operation back there, you can go in there and rob the back of the doctor's office, and it'll get you a Schofield revolver for free, which is great. One of the best guns in the game, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

But we've already touched on theodriscals quite a bit in chapter one. But they're much more prevalent, I think, in chapter two.

unknown 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

They basically run the Heartlands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, there's plenty of interactions with them in Valentine.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Um there's like two or three moments where you can stop the Odriscals from like killing someone or just beating someone up it outside of Valentine, and then like there's multiple Odriscoll ambushes while you're riding along the road. There's camps, there's hideouts, there's the doctor's office, they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah. And it's like, of course, it's most prevalent. We'll get into this when we get into um horseshoe more, but with a mission with Kieran Duffy, the former Odriscull that you take from their hideout up in Amberino, he will bring you to Six Point Cabin. Granted, yeah, that's a little bit out from the Heartlands. Technically, it's in Cumberland Forest, but that is such a small area. I feel like it's hard enough to figure out secrets in that area. It was hard enough to do this episode.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

But let's get more into the Odriscals because we see so much of them in in the whole game, but especially in this area. And before we get into chapter two next week, I think we need to talk more about them because it's gonna come up so much. And the Odriscolls are based off of the real life Dalton gang, and much like Como Driscoll, the leaders were ruthless and often cared little for the lives of their followers, hiring anyone who could ride or shoot. The real life Dalton gang was from 1890 to 1892. They were also known as the Dalton Brothers. There were three brothers, Bob, Gratt, and Emmett, but there were nine members in total. And I think they were starting to see more Irish members in gang in territories like Nebraska and Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah, because it's like even them, they weren't exactly Irish. Like they grew up in Missouri and Kansas. James Dalton, he married Adeline Lee Younger, who is an aunt to Colin Jim Younger, who of course became part of the James Younger gang later on. Well, not later on, but because James Younger gang was already done and dusted by the time that the Dalton gang started rolling around. So it could be part of the reason on why even the Daltons started their robberies, even to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yeah, and like, well, the O'Driscolls in Red Dead 2 seem to have like hundreds of members. Real Life Gangs were typically smaller, they were usually only like three to eight people. So like the game portrays the Odriscolls as like a almost bottomless army of goons. Whereas real life games were generally tightly knit small groups.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah, I mean, as uh Dutch literally says, Colm doesn't give a damn about about his men, all he cares about is numbers. If you can shoot a gun and ride a horse and kill without thought, you're in. And we do see that because mission after mission and event after event, they just pop up seemingly out of nowhere, and they're seemingly endless. And I mean they're prevalent throughout the entire story.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

They are, and even though the game implies like massive incre massive recruitment, which was not typical for the era's small-scale outlaw operations. Well, the Driscolls themselves are fictional, they represent outlaw gangs of the old west that were eventually wiped out by modernizing law enforcement at the turn of the century. They were meant to be a more typical depiction of a gang. While we love the Vanderlyn gang, they're more like a cult where Duchess, a leader with some strong philosophical ideals beyond just robbing and killing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

And it is interesting because in the Pang Social Call mission with Kieran, we do hear Kieran being like, you both look the same.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

And I mean And you look, but you ain't seen.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yeah, to be fair, he's been tied to a tree for two weeks. For two weeks. Well, probably three weeks at that point. Plus, well, being up in the mountains. So it's like, how much am I gonna trust your word? But the Odriscals themselves, we hear like numerous little tidbits. And of course, Kieran being talking about like them being similar is kind of interesting because, of course, like I mentioned, with the Dalton brothers being cousins to Cole and Jim Younger, I kind of believe that the Vanderlyn gang is well, of course it's inspired by like a bunch of different gangs. Butch Cast Me in the Wild Bunch. I mean, quite literally with Butch and Dutch, and then but with a lot of like their robberies and stuff too, because the Lemoyne National Bank and the Northfield National Bank are of course both the last major robberies like for the gang. Granted, Jesse doesn't end up getting killed until a couple years after Northfield and in game, it's maybe a couple of months after when it all falls apart.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

So we will talk more about the Odriscals and a lot of this stuff. I mean, obviously, we're gonna talk about the Odriscals a lot throughout chapter two and all the way through chapter six. So we will come back to this for sure. But before we wrap up this episode, we also need to talk about a few other places in the Heartlands. There is Carmody Dell and Downs Ranch. Yeah, there's Carmody Dell, which we visit with Hosea, of course, during the mission where we unlock the fence.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yep. And then we also encounter Bob Crawford Crawford in Red Dead Online. But it's interesting because we talked to him up at Painted Sky, and I feel like Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

I totally forgot about that.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Because it's Mr. Roble that owns Painted Sky. Um, because you go up there for a debt collection. It's one of the first debt collections you can do with uh Leopold Strauss, which we'll get into when we get into uh horseshoe. But it's interesting that you go that you meet him at Painted Sky instead of Carmedy Carmedy Dell.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah, that is odd.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

And then in that like online mission, he just sends you to like Limpany to capture a few outlaws, and then you come back and you can either kill him, leave him on the tracks, or let him go.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

And then there's also uh Downs Ranch, which we of course know that's where we find Thomas Downs and his wife and son. That is where Arthur gets sick.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Unfortunately. There's not a whole lot to say about Downs Ranch.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

I mean With no, not without getting not without getting into chapter two.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

We'll talk about that more. Yeah, we'll talk about that more. But another thing that is in the Heartlands that we didn't include in our notes, but I just thought of Chelonians. Oh, yeah. Which like you know, there's the mission of the Chelonians where you go save Jamie for Mary if you decide to help Mary. But there's also like more to the Chelonians than just that mission. We also find the Chelonians handing out pamphlets at the park in Saint-Denis. And I believe aren't the Chelonians based off of like a real-life cult too? Like there is more to the Chelonians than probably that one episode, like or that one mission.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah, there probably is.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

The turtle cult. Okay, so they hold turtles in high regard, considering them sacred and often wearing clothing featuring turtle emblems, carrying turtle-shaped satchels. Members believe they can escape the evils of modern America by hiding a shell of safe hiding in a shell of safety. During conversations, they sometimes group together, mimicking a turtle's shell. The group is led by Honors Heldersen. Helgerson? Again, I'm gonna butcher last names the entirety of this entire podcast forever for the rest of my life. So I'm doing my best. But the group is led by Onders, who actively recruits people in Sandini and the surrounding hills. The cult leads members to jump off cliffs, believing their faith will protect them, essentially to join their master in the promised land. Their pamphlets speak of swimming during the wrong moon cycle and eating fruits and nuts, promising a paradise without anger or revenge. There's also uh a hidden camp of group uh there's a hidden camp with a group of dead Chelonians that can be found in Chola Springs in the area of New Austin in the epilogue, suggesting their reach extended quite far. The Chelonians are likely a reference to the Epsilon program from Grand Theft Auto 5, with some members wearing similar baby blue colors and engaging in similar financial exploitation. Some fans believe the cult is a thematic mirror to Duchess Gang, a charismatic leader asking for complete trust and money from followers who believe they are special. If you kill the leader during the Jamie Rescue mission in chapter two, you fail the mission, but you trigger a unique cutscene. I don't know what that cutscene is.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

All of the all of the Chelonians will run off the cliff.

unknown 38:47

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

That's what I thought it was, but I didn't want to be wrong. So yeah, you trigger that cutscene and all the Chelonians run off the cliff. So yeah, what are your thoughts on the Heartlands specifically? Um what are what which area is your favorite?

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Honestly, I mean it I think it was the Heartlands for like a really long time, but I think now it's probably Scarlet Meadows.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Really? Scarlet Meadows is? Wow. I would have never guessed. Is that because of like your story?

SPEAKER_00 39:19

I think a lot of it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

But it's also like I don't know, I've always loved like I guess even when it comes to like more of like the history and stuff, is like the deep south and like Alabama and like the classic like red clay type of a vibe.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

It's funny because like you and I have been playing for two years together, and I never would have guessed that you'd ever say that was your favorite.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yeah, it's like both areas are great. It's I do go between, of course, the areas quite frequently. I mean, of course, Big Valley is great, especially by Little Creek River.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

That's what I thought you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

I mean, the whole game is absolutely beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

But it's like out of a r like entire like regions, yeah, I would probably say Scarlet Meadows. Plus, it's like I feel like I mean, just based on this episode alone, that there's a lot more lore in this in Scarlet Meadows.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah, yeah, I I love the Heartlands. That was I mean, obviously that's uh going to be like everyone's favorite because that's where we start out at and like things are good there, but like me, my family's from Nebraska, so feeling like I'm there it was like nostalgic to me. Because like we used to go to Nebraska every summer. Like, that sounds probably there's probably a lot of people there that are like ew, Nebraska.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

It's funny you saying that and me saying, Oh, yeah, I love Scarlett Meadows because it's the south and I'm the furthest away.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Yeah, I know you're up in Minnesota, freezing your ass off right now. Yeah. It's 56. Oh, heat wave. Yeah, like we used to go to Nebraska every summer, and at the point that the game came out, I hadn't been to Nebraska in, I think, about eight years.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

So it had been a long time since I had been out there, and of course, like I missed like my grandparents and stuff who have unfortunately passed away. And I have a lot of family in western Nebraska that I have since gone back and seen, but like being there in the game just felt like home to me. And then, like, of course, when I went back to Nebraska in 2023, and being out in what quite literally feels like Valentine. I didn't go to Valentine itself, I didn't go to real life Valentine, but like just the monuments and cliffs and shit out there, it is just like the game, and it's so fucking beautiful. I love it out there. I love that the sky looks big, and I love the smell of prairie rain. Oh my god, make it a candle, prairie rain. All right, I think that about does it for this episode. And that's it for us today, partner. Thank you so much for spending some time with us here at the Outlaw Haven. It really means a lot to us. And if you like what you heard, we upload every Thursday at 3 a.m. Eastern Time. So make sure you follow or subscribe wherever you're listening so you don't miss what's coming next. I'm Sam.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

I'm Zaya.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

And this is the Outlaw Haven.