Wanted: Belle Starr

Welcome to The Outlaw Haven podcast! In this episode we talk about The Bandit Queen, Belle Starr and her Red Dead Redeption counterpart, Black Belle! 

 Check out our Gunslinger Mommy colection here! https://the-outlaw-haven-podcast-shop.fourthwall.com/collections/gunslinger-mommy 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Before Black Bell was riding through the bodies of Lemoyne, there was a real woman who robbed, wrestled, and rode her way into American outlaw legend, Bell Star. Newspapers called her the Bandit Queen. She ran with horse thieves, married into outlaw families, and carved out a reputation in the lawless corners of Indian territory that made her one of the most notorious women of the Old West. Some of it was true, but a lot of it was half-truths, unfinded dime novels, and sensationalized press that turned a Missouri farm girl into a gunslinging legend before she was even in the ground. And it's that legend, equal parts fact, folklore, and outright fabrication that echoes through Black Bell and Red Dead Redemption 2. Same fearlessness, same refusal to play by anyone's roles. Same mythology built as much by the people telling the story as by the woman living it. So today we're separating a woman from the myth: who Bellstar really was, how she died, and how a 19th century outlaw queen rode straight into a 21st century video game. Pull up the stool, grab a whiskey, and get comfortable. I'm Sam, I'm Sarah. And this is the Outlaw Haven. Well, let's get right into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Wow, dipping into the southern accent. Let's get right into it. But yeah, of course, um we're talking about I was gonna say black bell in its tank, which yeah, we are. Um we are, but yeah, today is gonna be her inspiration uh bell star. It was honestly kind of difficult to find good, like credible information about her.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

A lot of people like I was looking at like like even like historical society websites and shit, like reputable sources. They were just like, oh, she maybe did this, and then she probably did that, and then maybe she went here, but there's no confirmed source that says this, and then I'm just like okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Like looking at the um historical sites from like Missouri and Arkansas, Texas, and whatnot. It's like most of them all say a different thing. Like uh course, some of it is like still the same throat, but like it's definitely got some differences. So I tried to do the best I could compiling it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I'm sure you did a much better job than I would have. I am terrible at research. I tried, I got like to the like maybe she did this, and I was like, all right, I'm not using that, and then gave up on it. So you are much better at researching than I am.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Yeah, I I tried to be. But yeah, I guess let's get into it. Um born Myra Maybell Shirley on February 5th, 1948, in Carthage, Missouri. 1848. 1848. Um yeah, she was one of six siblings. She was the only female. But and she was born to John Elizabeth Hatfield Shirley. Her mother um was also 20 years younger than her husband John. So that's uh thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah, I am dude. And of course, her mother was related to the Hatfields from the Hatfields and McCoys, and we talked about them a little bit within our last um chapter, talking about chapter three and the Grays and the Braithwaits.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

And then of course we talked about them in our episode on the Hatfields and McCoys, didn't we? Oh, we just did Brays and Braithwaite. I think we mixed Grays and Braithwaite. And we kind of mentioned them in Tori's episode a little bit too.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah. Not a whole lot in his, which is kind of surprising. But yeah, during Belle's childhood, she actually once once her family like moved to Texas, like after the Civil War ended, she ended up spending a lot of time with none other other than Cole Younger. And then, of course, later on, also Frank and Jesse, as they fell in with the youngers and formed, of course, the James Younger gang. But it never from my understanding, like she never properly, properly ran with like the James Younger gang. Her and like her family would end up like housing them from time to time, but it wouldn't be anything super extraordinary or anything. But they kind of hit it off. Some reports, this is where stuff kinda gets messy. It's probably one of the bigger things that I seen when researching where it got messy. Because some reports say that Belle, when she had her daughter in 1860, 1868, that they named her Rosie. She went by Pearl, but it was debated on whether or not it was Cole Younger's daughter and not um her husband at the time, Jim's. Some reports say that Cole did actually deny being the father, but Pearl did take on the younger last name during her childhood. So it's kind of like, okay, did she just take that on because it's like, oh look at me, I'm younger. Given, of course, the rising infamy at the time of the gang. So it's hard to say. And of course, it's like, okay, it's a long time ago. We don't have the information and like research and shit that we do today. So who knows? But in November 1866, she ended up marrying Jim Reed, who was a former member of the Quantrell Raiders, who we talked about in our Jesse James episode that we did a few months ago. And of course, they end it's also the same group that Frank and Jesse wrote in during like that Civil War time period, which is kind of interesting. But they ended up marrying in 66. And like I said, they had their first daughter a few years later in 68, and I think they were in Texas at the time. They ended up moving to California, and then during that time, I think they had uh their son, um, Edward or Ed. And they ended up returning to Texas shortly after because Jim had warrants out for murder, of course.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

And was was Bell Star mentioned in the assassination?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Because the assassination mainly just jumped was mainly like the end of uh yeah, that's true. That is like so it was like after 76 or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Fair. I just didn't know if she was oh no, I just didn't know if she was mentioned at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

No, I don't believe so sh so. Yeah, I didn't know that because even when looking up information about like Jesse James or even Cole Younger, it's not even mentioned because I didn't know that until I was looking up information for Bell Star and I was like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, I think like even I tried to do some research and I don't think I've like read anything about Jesse James until like right now.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah, I think it took me a couple articles to actually like see anything. Of course, like when those cause the gang, the James Yarger gang was like formed down in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

It's almost like the trying to map out where the Vanderlyn gang went. Mm-hmm. Trying to map out where all she went, like Missouri to Texas to California to where else did she go? She went somewhere up north too for a minute, right? Not that I was able to find at least.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

I don't even know where I saw.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I saw something where she like Michigan, that's where I thought.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

That's what I was thinking of. Yeah, because she was hadn't held in a penitentiary in Detroit. Sorry. You're good. I interrupted because I had questions. Hey, that just increases our runtime. But yeah, so they returned to Texas and Jim started kind of running with the James brothers and then the youngers and um even stars gang herself. And kind of during this time they started doing more robberies. Um, this is also again where things get messy because it's unknown exactly like how she partook in some of these like robberies, or if she if she partook in them at all, because some accounts state that like Bell Star disapproved of Jim's actions during this time, but also when they're in Texas for the second time, this is where she started going by the bandit Quentin. Did she give herself that title or did someone else give her that title?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

She she did give herself that title, I believe. Very modest. Right. Very modest, humble thing to call yourself.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah. But yeah, like some accounts dis say that like Belstar was disapproving of Jim during when he was like robbing, but then others also say that like she only owned a um a livery barn near near either near or in Dallas, Texas. And she would try to sell the horses that Jim went ahead and stole, but who knows. And then a few years kind of after and into that operation, sh her husband Jim robbed the San Antonio stagecoach, and he ended up getting killed. And Belstar was named an accessory to murder, although it's also muddy on whether or not she was a participant in it. Most accounts say that she's she wasn't, so there is that. There really isn't a lot of information for the next umpteen years. I mean, of course, Bellstar, she honestly is just a giant horse girl.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Same. See, I thought I was Bell Star in a past life. Right. Like she's Hatfield, she's a reed. She married Sam. Right? Yeah. And she stole horses. I too would steal horses if I was alive in the 1800s.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

For fucking mistreating one.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

I also would punch my son for mistreating a horse. I'm telling you, it's me.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Right?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Me in a past life.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah, it's like so yeah, kind of after like 74, it's kind of unknown exactly what happened because most after that, just a jump to 1880 when she did marry Sam Starr. But some accounts say that like in 1878 she married Bruce Younger, one of the brothers. But I mean, either way, that marriage didn't last. So it's very unknown on if that is actually a fact or not.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Wild, how much is just speculation?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah, because a lot of people that's one of like the things with like her and like even Black Bell and game is she's had like multiple husbands and multiple relationships. And of course, when it correlates to like Red Dead, it's all of a I think it's she had six husbands and like all of them died or something.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

So how do we find that shit out? How do you find all this information about um these like side characters?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Like you the word literally like an encyclopedia analyzing the cutscenes. Does she mention all of her husbands? I th ever think it's I think it's mentioned and mentioned somewhere. It might be mentioned in like the side probably online, right? Either in online or Theodore says it when you're talking to him. That's the one thing I should have watched before this was um yeah, that cutscene with Theodore because he talks a little bit about uh each of the gunsingers. Yeah, in um on June 5th, 1880, she married Sam Starr, who's also a lifetime friend of the youngers. So she really likes the people who know the youngers. If not the youngers themselves. She's got a type, right? Yeah, no shit. But yeah, they started kind of after this. They settled down on a ranch that was renamed the younger's bend. It was like a it's like a desolate little ranch by the um Canadian River. Is it still there, like to this day? I do not know. I wanna look. I wanna find out. I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Does it say what state it was in or anything?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

I could not find a state.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Younger's Bend, the historic 1880s hideout of the bandit queen Bell Star and her husband Sam, is an active restoration site and private historical attraction located in Poham, Oklahoma. Today the site features Belstar's gravesite and the recreation of her famous cabin. Oh, it's remote property, originally a sharp bend in the Canadian River before the Euphala dam. I don't know how to pronounce that. Don't come after me. Altered sources, currently maintained as a rustic, accessible destination for Wild West historians. I want to go see it. Let's go. There's a it has a Facebook page. There's a Younger's Bend Facebook page. I'm gonna like send it to you.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Dude, we need to go on a road trip.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Oh, that's her grave is cool. Her her headstone has a pony on it.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah, her daughter did that. That's so cool. Because her daughter came back um after she died and eventually put up a um gravestone that has a bell, a horse, and a star on it.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Looking at the cabin just like gave me goosebumps. That was weird.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

But yeah, that'd be such a fun road trip. Like go down, go to New Orleans, which is weird because I I don't think we mentioned at all last episode when we were you know fucking talking about Saint Janae for the entire episode. That oh yeah, it's actually inspired by New Orleans.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

There's a picture of her on a horse. I'm assuming that's but there's a picture of our picture of her on a pony. And her hat does look a lot like Black Bell's hat. That's a flower. Alright, we're going on a road trip again. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

So exactly. Go to New Orleans, hit that, hit yeah, that works, do that. New Orleans, younger's band, go to Tombstone. Hell yeah. Hit Missouri on the way up.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Anyway, continue. Sorry, I had to I had to look that up. I wanted to see if we could still see it.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

If someone starts talking about like old houses and shit, I'm like, is this still there? Can I go see it? Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

It's like it's the coolest thing. My house that I was born at. Um not at, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Um you were born in your house.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

No, I would have and I would have actually died then. I know you would have died. I know you would have died. I would have legitimately died. You did die.

unknown 16:32

I did.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

I would have not come back. But yeah, my house was actually built in 1883. It was the first house that was built on that block. And um, it used to be. I want to go back there and fucking ghost hunt because that thing is a thousand percent haunted.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Because that used to be Dude, why didn't we go look at it when I was there? We went to Brainerd.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Dude, I literally don't know why I didn't tell it because like the detour went right by it. Did we actually pass it? We didn't pass it, but like one of the roads we went on was like a couple straits across from it. But yeah, we it used to be like an old doctor's office or like a clinic or a hospital or some shit. So oh yeah, that's haunted. That's like there's a whole bunch of old fucking authentic medicine bottles that I have now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

What do I have anything? You didn't show me these while I was there. I don't have any in my setup right now. Dude, that's some haunting and Connecticut type shit.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Right? Hold on, let me dig through my shit here. Yeah, I don't have any medicine bottles that I can find in there, but you'll have to find them and take a picture and send them to you. But yeah, they're just like the little tiny medicine bottles that are like actually properly from that time period. And it's like it's the coolest one thing ever.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Dude, why didn't we go there? We could have gone ghost hunting. I don't know if someone lives there now, but um we could have gone ghost hunting.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

I think they do the house sold in like 2019 and hasn't gone on the market since, so people probably do, but yeah, I'm like that's always been a thing I've thought of for the longest time was oh, it'd be so cool to go back and like not even necessarily like ghost hunt, but just to even be able to go back into that house and be like, oh, this is that and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

How old were you when you moved away from it?

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Um, I was six. Oh, so do you like remember it at all? Oh yeah, I can still tell. I I still remember the layout. Yeah. I'll have to send you this uh listing on solo because I still have it saved. Um but yeah, it was it was really cool. It was the first house that was actually built on Oak Street. Cool. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Anyway, I don't know how we got here, but Yep, neither do I.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

But it was so funny though, because like me and my parents were watching 1883 and we were talking about because like they knew that like our house back then was built back in that time period, and they were like, When was it and I'm like, Oh, it's 1880, and they're like, How do you know that? Like I I know things I do research.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

See, that's why you do the research for this podcast, because you know shit that I could never find on the internet. I don't know if it's because you just have more patience than I do, but you're way better at research than me.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

It's weird when it comes to research, I have patience. Anything else? No. That's fair, but yeah. I mean, uh one, it's western shit, so it was my special interest. So of course I'm gonna go fucking gung-ho on it. That's fair. But I guess anyway, back to the actual history. In of course, 1880, like we were saying, she married Sam Starr, and well, they were on the ranch, while they were at Younger's Ben Bend. This is kind of when she's she started to kind of gain more of a reputation and like infamy and whatnot throughout the years. They kept on like kind of stealing horses, whatnot, have you. And in 1883, Sam and Bell were indicted for stealing some horses and ended up serving nine months in a federal penitentiary in Detroit.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

How did she end up in Michigan? Like in a Michigan penitentiary. It sounds like she was like in like Oklahoma, Texas, like South Southwest. Like, how did she end up in a Michigan penitentiary for stealing horses?

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Right? Yeah, I don't know. In the next like through the next like five years, she ended up getting actually indicted three more times. And um so how long how much time did she serve? Do we know? Um she served nine. Total, I don't know. Oh yeah, you said that because from what I seen, it was like, oh, she was only indicted three more times for like kind of the same stuff, but like it said no time except for like that one specific thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Crazy how little documentation there is of shit like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

I know that was the thing. I was because like even when I was thinking when I was before I started doing like actual research for it, I was like, Oh, Bell Star, that should be decently easy. And nope.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

No fuck it is not like nobody documented anything. Back then, apparently, because what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Like, I mean, and then too, like, that's just the difference. It's like looking at it from Jesse James, I mean, compared to Bell Star. And it's like, if you look even at like their careers, Jesse James ended up dying in '82. Bell Star didn't die until 89. But their careers are like the same-ish time frame.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

And his is way more documented than hers, which I mean sexism. And like, if you're a woman, you could just get away with whatever the fuck you want because nobody documented anything.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

That's like that's that's just it. Even doing research on like Pearl Hart, who is rumored to be like one of the first women to ever successfully grab a stagecoach. She's known as the Arizona Bandit. There's like really barely any information on her to which is so I say if you were a woman, you could get away with anything, but like women could be arrested for like looking at you wrong.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah. Yeah. Like all the witches burned at the stake want to disagree.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Yeah, I mean, it's like um we talk about and I'll probably bring it up next episode when we get into um chapter four and whatnot. It's like with when you're doing a mission for um Sister Calderon and you get the um crucifix back and you run into Edith Downs as Arthur, like her one being a prostitute, two being a woman and like yelling for the cops.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Like oh yeah, she like goes yelling for the cops and the cops actually do something.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, like I'm sorry, what?

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, no, that would not have happened. No. I was actually surprised by that too when I like played that mission. Right? I was like, oh, she's a prostitute crying and needing help. They're probably not gonna come after me. And then they did come after me, and I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yeah, it's like huh.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

The game made me do it. Right. I wasn't being mean to her. I only killed her husband. I mean tuberculosis killed her husband. I just sped up the process.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah, I only beat her husband half to death and threatened her. Details. It's honest, it's so weird though how like you end up like it's odd that you can't that she ends up moving like town to town, kind of like with the with the gang. I mean, so does Mary Linton.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, see, it's like but at least Mary Linton. If the Pakistans wanted to find them bad enough, they should have hired Mary Linton.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

I know, right? Like, at least Mary Linton's in chapter four, like, kinda make sense because it's like okay, at least they have it to where her father is there, so it's like she has a reason.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

It's like running into him in Ballantyne makes like no sense. No, but it sounds like she just like ran into him on and off for like years or some shit. At least that's that's the way it like sounds. They made it sound like that anyway.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah, I'm just glad they didn't do like another encounter in chapter six like they do with Edith. That makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Because like people like really wanted Arthur to like fall in love and like have any sort of a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Well, I mean, even in like the gameplay trailers, they were like, Oh yeah, Arthur's have like they literally said in the gameplay trailer that oh, Arthur's gonna have three romantic interests.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

They said that, yeah, they said that. Bitch, you lied.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

And it was interesting because the frame that they said that on, I think was a frame of him talking, I think either to Mary Beth or him talking to Tilly.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

So Charlotte and Sadie were never options in that.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

People who ship are like oh my god. Yeah, no, I don't want Arthur and Sadie. Or even Arthur and Charlotte. I do like Arthur and Charlotte better than Arthur and Sadie. But but yeah, both are like very much so like the same. They're grieving widows. Charlotte just buried her husband.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah. Especially too, being that like we can't actually have an interaction with her until chapter six. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Um, so yeah, I think I never like really thought about Mary Beth or Tilly being well, you do dance with Mary Beth at that one scene, so I guess I did think about that.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

But like Yeah, you dance you can dance with Mary Beth and Karen.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

You can dance with Karen too.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Um, in chapter three, after you do Blessing of the Peacemakers, there's a scene that I only have ever gotten once where Dutch dances with Susan and uh you can with Karen.

unknown 27:22

What the fuck? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Why do I know nothing about this fucking game?

SPEAKER_02 27:28

It only happens like I like and there's one other thing. I love that we're just talking about the game now, but um I know, right? Like, there's one other thing after you do Blessed Are the Peacemakers, where Micah and Dutch and Pearson will actually come up and apologize to Arthur I have never fucking gotten that like ever.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Neither have I. I've seen it. The thing is like after you do Blessed Are the Peacemakers, all that's left is uh Shortwalk in a pretty town. So I'm just always like, let me just rip this band-aid off. Yeah, same. As soon as I as soon as I finish Blessed Are the Peacemakers, I'd go right into Shortwalk and Pretty Town. Yes. I've never like just hung out in camp between that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

I did that like my last playthrough purposely because I did that for kind of all of my missions because I was like, okay, I want to see what happens in camp after this point.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

I need to hang out in camp more.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, it's like the first, I think it's the first night, like after, or is it no, it's after Blessed, I think. It could be maybe after the bank robbery, but I want to say it's after Blessed are the peacemakers.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

I'm gonna have to hang out in camp more. Yeah, I know. We'll have to do that. There's so much dialogue that gets missed because it's just camp conversations.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I mean, there's a I found a YouTube video that's like two and a two hours, just over two hours, of just camp conversations.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

And is it all of them or is it just like some of them? All of them.

unknown 29:03

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

I don't want to watch it though. I want to experience it for myself. I watched it because I want details. I want those details too, but like I just wanna like it's so much more immersive when you're doing it in the game than watching a YouTube video.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Yeah, yeah, it's like if I'm looking for like a specific one, I have it saved in my save for later, so then I can go back to it. But honestly, we we need to do an episode on like just the camp interactions and like conversations more of like these like hidden moments, more detailed moments.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Like it's fun doing the chapter breakdowns, but like I want to do more of like the camp conversations, the like hidden dialogue, um, the journal entries and the newspaper clippings, and then all the mail. I don't want to talk about the mail. There's a mail wagon that you can steal like a shitload of mail from, and you can just read all those letters. Berlin Forest.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I don't think I even had all the journal entries written as like an idea. Yeah, we should definitely do that at like I'm writing that down so I don't forget it.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

I think we've talked about it once before, but yeah, yeah. I definitely would love to do a journal entries episode. I'm like, I don't know how we would do that because I don't want it to just be us like reading the journal. We'd probably like read some of the journal entries and then like go off topic like we are right now.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely I that one I could see being God, that would be a good, good damn damn it. I hate that we didn't think of that like earlier. Because that'd be probably more than two-quarters could be actually.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

If you guys want it, let us know. If you want it, tell us please, because I want it.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Oh, we are a thousand percent doing that. I hate that we didn't think of that sooner because that would have been great to do like in between our chapter breakdowns or at the end of each chapter, go over like the entire chapter in the journal.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Okay, back to Black Bell. Sorry, we had a bottom oh god, you changed a soul robot.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

That was a train wreck. Oh no. Uh you're fine now. Is it better? That's good, yeah. In 1887, Sam ended up being killed in gunfight. It's unknown whether it was like of course, like with everything when it comes to fucking Bell Star, it's messy. Um, so it's unknown whether it was like just a like a gunfight with another outlaw, or some reports say that like it could have been with like an actual officer. Like, after that point, um, Belstar, she ended up settling down with like some say that like she only found one new lover who was unnamed. Others say like she found other multiple lovers within like this time frame. But of course, she at this time was still staying there at Younger's Bend. And a few years later, in 1889, she was shot in the back. And of course, that killed her. Um, the murderer was never identified. There are many suspects, including her own son Edward, who I think a few months prior to that is when when Bell Star beat him over mistreating her horse, which justified. Very so yeah, no one was ever convicted of her murder at all. But soon after her death, a novel called Bell Star the Bandit Queen or the Female Jesse James by Richard K. Fox. He sold it for a quarter. And Bell Star was buried at the younger's Ben property, and her daughter Pearl started going by star instead of younger, like she had throughout all of her childhood, and she started putting some money together. Some of it's rumored that like she started putting this money together after working in like some brothel brothels and doing it that way. Some sources also just don't say anything. But she eventually got enough money to put together a headstone, and it's got a bell, a star, and a horse engraved on it. And of course, it's on that property, and you can still go see it today, like Sam said. And really, that's all I was able to find for Bell Star. There's probably some stuff I missed. Wild some stuff I probably got incorrect.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Probably, yeah, like there's so much random information about her that's so contradictory. That's like I don't know what's true and what isn't. So I guess we did the best we could. Yes, you did the best you could. I was an idle bystander, I was there for moral support.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yes, I'm not gonna take any credit for any research in this because I now we can get into the fun stuff with gunslinger mommy.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Gunslinger mommy.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

By the way, um New March alert I haven't married, but new March, it's so good. Oh my god. And I can't wait to buy the shirt. Yeah, it's available now. Sam did an amazing fucking work on the artwork per usual.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Um, I don't like compliments, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Neither do I, but she did an amazing both color version and she also did a version in red, and it is fucking sick.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I worked really hard on it and gave myself a migraine because I I prefixated on it for six hours. Gave myself a migraine because I forgot to eat mood.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah, I would too.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

I was having so much fun. I love how it turned out.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Oh my god, it turned out I'm so excited to order it here. What all did you make? You made like we've got t-shirt. Let me actually see here.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

You're gonna have to send me the link to it because I need it.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Yes, I will. Got t-shirts, mugs, hoodies. I've got a tote bag, we've got magnets, stickers, notebooks, whole nine yards. All right, so in-game, um, her full name is Maybelle Elizabeth Coulter. Of course, Maybelle is um Bell Star's middle name.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

And she's played by Rebecca Watson, and she's Was there like a reason why there's a culter and her last name is Coulter? Is there like a correlation? We know I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

I think it's just a thing. And the reason why like I know her last name is like Coulter is because they're in online, if you have your camp theme set to bounty hunter, and if you go into your tent, there's a bounty poster there for Black Bell. It doesn't have her face or anything, it just has like her name on it, and you can also put Javier's bounty poster in there, which is kind of cool. Oh, that's cool. I didn't know that. But you can also find Javier's and Shady Bell too. You know, it's so weird that nobody says anything about that. About Javier's bounty poster, Pink, and Shady Bell.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I learned something new every time we record.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

It's not in there when you do when you're doing the mission. John helps you out. It's in the um staircase room. It's like right past like Hosea's room. Um, not Hosea's room. It's like in basically like the stair like landing room right after when you enter the double doors. If you go through that arch, like right in the middle, it's right on the interior wall right across from the staircase where the other arch that goes into like the dining room is. Oh, okay. But yeah, it's got a weird I never noticed her. But yeah, it's weird. No no one says anything on it. Like um, but yeah, you can find her bounty. Yeah, that's weird in Reddit Online, which is really cool. Of course, you know, we know her as Black Belle or Gunslinger Mommy if we want to make jokes. But she's been to the four guns.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Why do we call her gunslinger mommy? Where did that even come from?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

It's just like everyone I know calls her gunslinger mommy, but I never heard where that came from.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Uh-uh. Okay. That's cool. I don't know where that started. Yeah. Continue. But yeah, she's been to four four of the gunslingers we meet during the narrow list of men in a women's side quest. She's also the only woman in that side quest. I mean, hence the name. And she's also the only one that ends up actually escaping alive from that side quest.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, she's the only living photograph that you can take.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Yeah. We'll probably go like properly in depth into the that mission during an actual um side mission episode that we'll do eventually here. I don't fucking know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

That whole story goes on and on. Like even after you get it, like there's quite a bit more to it than just finding them.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Yeah, it's intense, because it's like you've got Yeah, all of that, and then after that you've gotta go and get Slim Grant and get that duel, and then after that it's done, but I think it's stupid when you're doing that mission.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Of course, I'm probably gonna bitch about this again when we talk about this later, but the fact that you have to go get pictures of all four of those gunslingers, then you have to go all the way back to Valentine to give it back to you don't have to until you get it like get all four of them done though. That's what I said. Once you get all four of the gunslingers, once you get all four photos, you go back to Valentine to talk to Theodore Levinson or whatever his name is. Levins? Yeah. Is it Levins or Levinson?

SPEAKER_02 38:28

I think it's Levins.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Thinking of Jan Levinson. Uh Theodore Levins. Um you have to go all the way back to Valentine to go give it to him.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

And he's not even there.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

But he's not even there. He's in Saint Denis. So I gotta go all the way back across the damn map to go back to find him on a boat. Yeah. When I was already in Sandini. I mean I was when I did it. Yeah. Because I was I took my time. So I was already in chapter four when I finished it or chapter six.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Well you can only finish it in chapter four. Really? Um yeah, because I was looking at the guidebook literally before we started this episode. And I didn't know that. Yeah, after you do like a certain mission is when you can finish it up. But I mean it makes sense why you have to go back to makes sense why you have to go back to Valentine, but it's just like it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I have to go there so they can be like, oh yeah, he's not here, he's in Saint Denis. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

And then yeah, go back to I mean, I definitely suggest if like you're doing that side quest to complete it, wait until you get to the second part and then do the second part as John, because uh then you get the money that you get theater or something.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

But if you're Arthur and you get like extra dialogue, you don't I like doing yeah, you do, because he says like I knew Arthur or something. No, yeah, you get extra dialogue, but even if it's just like a yeah, I used to know Arthur, and they're like, Okay, this is what I have for you or whatever. Yeah, that's basically like the theater. I just like I like all the extra dialogue I can get. So I love doing a mission that I started as Arthur and then finished as John just for the extra dialogue.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Yeah just to talk about Arthur some more. In this case, it's like it's great because of course as John you get like the money that Theodore promises you. But with Arthur, you don't. Um you don't? No. Why not? Because somebody had to die.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Oh so you get the money, you just die right after.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

I don't even know if you get the money. Because I think it takes a bit. I guess depending on what part, if you did it in chapter four and not in chapter six, you probably would get the money. I guess I don't know. I haven't done it as I I always do it as John. I've never done it as John.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

But I never thought of that. I also just don't care about about getting money. Like, yeah, you want money when you're John, I get it, but like there's so many like gold bars you can find that it's I just don't I don't care that much. Like same thing with the uh Aberdeen pig farm thing where people will like leave money for John by doing that mission, and I'm just like all you have to do is go to the statues.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah, I'm like I'll do I'll do it at the end of my playthrough, because usually I'll have like a good amount stacked up, especially this last playthrough that I did. Um, because then as John I will go through and literally buy every single outfit and every single accessory and every single clothing item. But I guess anyway, back to Black Bell.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Anyway, sorry. And my ADHD is really ADHDing tonight.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

We love it, Ben. Um but yeah, you meet her during the side mission, but she's also available in online and she has such a badass starting cutscene. Dude, um, you walk into Old Harry's Fen, which is just southeast of Braithwaite Manor, and kind of by um Catfish Jackson's as well, in like the old church by um it's like right by the location of the legendary panther. Yeah, it's like right by that too. But you walk inside and she just lights a stick of dynamite. It's helpful. Just casually, just casually. Um and then she fucking takes the fuse out with her teeth. Yeah, yeah. Hot.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

I need to change the shirt so it says I have the hots for gunslinger mommy. Um I'm by for gunslinger mommy.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

But her first robbery ended up taking place in Rhodes, um, where she can became the infamous and only surviving mender member of the Coulter Tobin gang, and apparently her outlet life led her to amassing a bounty higher than Landon Ricketts. Yeah. Which we also don't know what Landon Ricketts bounty is, like throughout both games.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

I imagine it's pretty fucking high.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Yeah. It's known that she was married six times to six different men, and she never divorced any of them. She also has a secret card.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Um and it looks nothing like her, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Yeah, it looks weird. Like I said, in Roger Online, we meet her in Old Harry Fen, where um she lights a stick of dynamite, and when she w realizes that the player isn't like a bounty hunter, she kind of calms down and gives us work to go back into roads to rescue some of her old gang members that are about to be hanged.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

And he can even if we are a bounty hunter. Yeah. I only have our bounty poster.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Yeah, it's fine. But after you do that initial like completion mission, you can go back to her and get jail breakouts, wagon thefts, paid killings, supplies destructions, and cold coach holdups. Um, of course, doing as the mission you will lose honor. But worth it. Honor is so easy to gain in Red Dead Online. It really is. You beat your horse once and you're high on her.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Dude, I try I have to try so hard to be low honor online.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah, it's it it it's difficult. But during the main events of Red Dead to Arthur, um, of course, he's tracking down all of the other infamous outlaws, that new Jimboy Calloway, and of course, one of them's Black Belle. She's in located in the swamp in a lone standing shack, standing on still, so I forget what it's actually called. I'm gonna look it up. But she gets approached by Arthur and It's Canebreak Manor. Canebreak, okay. I've never heard that before in my life. Same. But interesting.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

It doesn't look nice enough to be called a manor.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Right. But yeah. And her shack is also pretty close to the houseboat. And kind of talked about that. And but yeah, Urther approaches the shack, and um Black Bell's immediately like, Are you a bounty hunter?

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Dude, you sounded like her when you just said that.

unknown 45:13

Weird.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Your voice sounded just like hers. That was weird.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

And he's like, No, and then she's like, Well, you're none the wiser because all you done is led them boys here, and fucking Ursa looks behind him, just bounty hunters just strolling up. Fucking dumbass.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Oh, those bounty hunters.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Yeah, and then Arthur, he's like, I can talk to him.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

I can tell him he left. That's some shit my dad would do. Like, that's such a dad thing. I can tell him he left.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Right?

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Thanks, dad.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

Of course, Black Bell being the fucking badass she is, turns him down, and they she's like, Help me, you want that story? Get up here, help me fend him off. So Arthur gets up there, and then we learn, oh, Black Bell's even more of a badass because she has fucking explosives rigged around her entire shack.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Honestly, amazing that she didn't blow Arthur up before he even got the chance to like walk up the stairs.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Right? Yeah, considering it's like on that main boardwalk. But um, one of them ends up walking down that boardwalk, and that the poster that the guy has is like not even Black Bell's bounty poster, it's for an entire different bounty. Um is that really? Yeah, I think it is. I don't know who it's for, but he's totally like, I wanna talk, blah blah blah. Um, Black Bell gives Arthur a signal to hit like the plunger that's on the little fence on the deck, and Arthur hits the plunger and the man blows up, and of course that turns into a gunfight, as usual. Another gunfight. Yay. Um, another gunfight. That one's done, and then there's another one off to the side where there's another set of dynamite rigged up by the outhouse, and that one goes off, and then after that, things kind of slow down and eventually the shootout ends, and Black Bell does actually say true to her promise and um tells Arthur a little bit about Callaway, although she only states to him as little boy Callaway, not Jim Boy Callaway.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

The only running he ever did was away from a fight.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Mm-hmm. Um that yeah, that he was a m mostly a coward and never ran towards fights, only away from them. She also states that real gunslingers never had time to tell any of their tales to writers because they were too busy like worrying about their own necks. Of course, you know, suggests that a lot of like Jim Boys Callaway stories are fake and whatnot. Of course, that leads in like the time novels and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

But are there still is Jim Boy Callaway supposed to be like Jesse James or some shit?

SPEAKER_02 48:10

No. Um because we have a real life version of Jesse and Frank in Is there a real life Jim Boy Callaway?

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Um I only say that because Jesse James is way more famous than Bell Star. Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

I don't think there is from my researchers. I couldn't find any. But I mean, I've seen that like a lot of people do say that like the movie Unforgiven, with which I would like to cover eventually on here, do get into are kind of similar to Emmerich Granger and Jimbo Callaway. And Roger credits it as like being one of his main kind of inspirations for the game, because I think he ended up asking like some of the team at Rockstar being like, hey, is there any like media I should watch? And they're like, Yeah, unforgiven, because it's like an Australian western set, and like out in the Australian Outback, and it's like these two brothers with kind of butting heads and loyalty and whatnot. So very much so the whole like John and Arthur storyline, which is cool. But Arthur, of course, asks for that photograph, and you get it, and she poses with um she's also the only one not to have any like unique weapons because you can get from the other three like all their revolvers, but Black Bell just has a standard Lancaster repeater and her um Cattleman.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

So she know there is a Bell Star movie.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Oh yeah, there is. Totally forgot about that. From 1941. 1941. Bet movie night. Let's go. Yeah, let's go. Um, I don't know where to where to watch it, but right. Let me check. But yeah, gets that photo of her and yeah, that's kind of all we know there is about like Black Bell, that's all we get of her.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Um that taking the picture of her is so uncomfortable because she's like, uh you done yet? Like I'm like, wait, I want to see what all the poses are that I can do. But she's like she gets so mad when you ask her to change poses. Right. I'm like, I want to make sure I get the best one. I want you to look badass because you are right.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

I know I forget like so much that like there actually are different poses you can have her do because I just do the default one, but there's a couple different ones that you can choose from.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah, there's there's a few different ones. I just hate asking her to move. I've never like gone through and just like make her pose, pose, pose until she like either gets like will she eventually get mad and just be like, okay, you're done, and like walk away.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

No, it's scripted. So then what once you take the photo and pose onto it.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Okay. I didn't know if she'd eventually get mad and just leave because like that's what it feels like. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Apparently there's a um camper in like a round that you can run into that will talk about Black Bell, and um he'll say that like apparently she was in Tucson and like they ran into each other or something, which I don't know that I've ever found that. I don't think I've ever found it either. I only seen it when I was doing looking up Black Bell stuff on the bookie. But yeah, that's all I got.

unknown 51:54

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Please go check out our merch. I worked really hard on the art for this one, and it would mean a lot to me if you actually did go look at this one. I know I always say like, go look at our merch or don't, but like this time it would actually mean a lot to me if you checked out our merch because I worked really hard on this one and I'm so proud of it, and that migraine that I got from it really sucked. Anyone who's ever had a migraine will will understand it.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

So worth it though. It turned out fucking amazing. I'm like, I can't wait to order it. Same.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

I need that shirt right now. All right, that's all I got. That's it for us today, Outlaws. Thank you so much for spending time with us here at the Outlaw Haven. It really means a lot to us. We upload every Thursday at 3 a.m. Eastern Time. So if you like what you heard, make sure you follow or subscribe wherever you're listening so you don't miss what's coming next. Also, please take a moment to leave us five stars because it's the best way to support what we do. I'm Sam. I'm Sarah. And this is the Outlaw Haven.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

This world has a lot of ugly in it, but it sure as hell has a lot of beauty.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

You eat babies.