Linda Tells James He's Wrong About Improv
Sydney based improvisers Linda Calgaro (Tiny Impro Co, Lady Fingers) and James Hartley (Upper Crass Players) fight, argue, and brawl about all things improv and James is always wrong.
Linda Tells James He's Wrong About Improv
Ep10: What Draws Audiences to an Improv Show?
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James tries to argue that audiences only see improv shows based on the troupe members while Linda argues that the format of the show is the key draw. James also dishes out the hot goss on an improvised show he saw that he hated!
Have a question or Improv related topic you'd like to hear us discuss? Send a short email to LindaTellsJames@gmail.com
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Hi James. Hi, Linda.
SPEAKER_01Um Hey everyone. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Linda Tells James he's wrong about improv improv.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah. How was your week? Yeah, good. Busy, stuff happening, fun. Um, yeah, but also not too stressful. So it's a nice, nice combo.
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SPEAKER_01That's all. That's all. Don't do anything of, you know, bum around, look after the fur babies.
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SPEAKER_01I don't know. If you do appreciate what I do, send us an email at LindaTellsJames at gmail.com. LindaTellsJames at gmail.com. Hey, look out the window. That's a nice segue.
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SPEAKER_01Yeah, just and just say hello. We don't we like hellos.
SPEAKER_02We'd love hellos. Yay! So we chat about things improv, all things improv. Um, and today I have a uh a statement or an idea. And my contention is that all improv communities slash improv scenes ultimately are cults of personality. Okay. So what I mean by that, and maybe you can help me understand what I mean by that, is the idea that if if kind of the improv formats and the improv scenes themselves aren't necessarily um uh locked to the troupe or the performers themselves, and if improv is about being open um to kind of anything that's being thrown at you and you can kind of mix and match performers, then doesn't every community or scene, improv, you know, like scene in general, kind of devolve down basically into just, oh, I like this, the the people and the personality of this troupe, therefore I go see them, as opposed to say like a theater company where there's a brand of where they you could have different performers, you could have different directors, producers, but the theatre company itself has its own brand, and you'll go like, oh, okay, I'm happy to see anything they put on.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02You know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, there aren't many improv theatre companies, at least there aren't many in Australia who have a an identity as this is the kind of show that we do.
SPEAKER_00Am I right there? Maybe I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, we don't I mean, I guess obviously we don't know every improviser, but as far as we know, right?
SPEAKER_01But um, okay, so you're saying that um that uh a company will have its brand of show style? Not either. Yeah. Style of play.
SPEAKER_02Well, I actually I think they don't have they kind of almost don't have a style of play.
SPEAKER_01So what's attracting their audiences?
SPEAKER_02Just the people in the troop.
SPEAKER_01They like the way the people in the troops yes, just the performers.
SPEAKER_02Like you because because you could throw any style, any format, anything at them conceivably with the improvisers. Okay, I don't know. Good, okay, great. Why not? You know, like because I'm kind of arguing it's closer to stand-up, you know, where it's like, oh, I'm going for to see that stand-up comedian particularly.
SPEAKER_01I don't think improvisers have that much of an identity in I was gonna say in Australia, but I I would probably argue anywhere. I don't think people go and you'd have players that you like. I I mean, I can this is just me. I mean I might be absolutely wrong, folks, and by all means write in and let me know what you think. Um, let us know what you think. Um yeah, I don't think there's so much of value placed on what on the way someone plays or well, first of all it's problematic to have an improviser bee stand out from the group and have the audience go, Oh, that I really love the way so-and-so plays. I want to go see all these shows. That's problematic in itself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because you play you want to play as an ensemble and you want everyone to bring something into ensemble. Now, of course, everyone uh audiences are going to you know uh be attracted to or um you know be aligned to someone's sense of humor perhaps a bit more, someone in the in the in the trip's sense of humour a bit more than others, may I guess so. Um, but I don't think it's going I I don't know, I'd be surprised if it's so strong that they'd go, yeah, I'm gonna I'm a fan of James Hartley, I'm gonna see everything. Thanks, Linda.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thanks so much. I'm thinking I'm thinking about like Wayne Brady, right? Right. So when when he will come down to you know Australia, yes, the way that that show's pitched is Wayne Brady does improv plus other people that'll be next to him because he needs to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly what he says, but no one cares who they are, yeah. Wayne Brady does improv.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, right? So so if at that at that level, right, it's definitely a cult of personality where I mean maybe I'm using the term cult of personality probably wrong, but you know, like it's primarily personality-based, yeah, rather than um but then again uh sorry to cut you off. No, no, no, then again it's great.
SPEAKER_01But then again, uh with that show, Whose Line Is It Anyway, which is if those of you who don't know, is where Wayne Brady made his fame and minor fortune. Um it's not an ensemble show. Is it an ensemble show? Is it? I don't think it is. I think everyone has their strengths, through the the main cast members, and then like Wayne Brady is known to be the guy who does impromptu musical pieces brilliantly, and he is brilliant, yes, but he's known as that guy, he's not known as being one of the four, you know, and he I don't feel like he is, I feel like he's just you know, same with Colin Mockry is well, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, just as Wayne Brady is absolutely brilliant with the the musical stuff, Colin's strength is bald and Ryan Styles is tall, and you know, and Drew Carey is fat.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's not Drew Carey, it hasn't been for a long time.
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, sure, sure, sure. That's true. But so yeah, they each have their niche.
SPEAKER_01Right. So so Wayne Brady does have star potential in because that's how potential. That's that's so gracious of you, Linda. I didn't mean it that way. I just um he does have star quality then. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and you're saying I don't?
SPEAKER_01Yes. No. Um, but he's sold that way. I mean, that's the way he he needs to be sell himself that way to to make a career, to make a you know, uh a living from this. Um but they're rare. That's not a common thing.
SPEAKER_02I mean, you could kind of say whose line is that that whose line is anyway is not a troop.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't feel like it is.
SPEAKER_02No, right? Because I mean it I don't know, folks.
SPEAKER_01I might be I don't know. I don't think like it is. I I've um like in a way it is because they they all get you know team up together to to create this this performance, which is the show, but they're not I don't know, it doesn't feel like they really are.
SPEAKER_02I mean, is it just the the format, as in like short form games, like if they were thrown a long form, you know, 60-minute uh thing. I don't I mean they're great improvisers, not saying they can't do it, but more like I don't know, would that make it feel more like they're a troop? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I'm just I think it's a style, I think it's the style of show, and I think it's the aim of the show is you know, they film a little hours and hours and hours and hours of yeah games and show to and then cut it down to what's the funniest piece bits. But but you feel like those guys are uh you and you're you're right. I think they are more akin to stand-up because they're they've they're told, I imagine, that you know, it's we've got to make a sh funny show, so go out there and be funny. And and it's not necessarily I want you all to work together and create this one performance piece or this one thing that that you know then that's not the aim of of of that show, of that vehicle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um so Ms. Calgaro, we have you on record now. I just want to confirm. Are you saying that whose line is it anyway is not improv?
SPEAKER_01No. No, I think the um approach is more akin to stand-up than perhaps than creating an improv ensemble piece. There you go. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02Hmm, you have a good lawyer.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I'm representing myself. Uh so I wouldn't say my lawyer's that clear.
SPEAKER_02But but because yeah, I mean, like, because yeah, I have, you know, like with Whose Line is anyway, one of my favorite performers is like Greg Proops. So when there's like an episode with him on, I'm like, oh I really want to watch that, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's a different beast though. I I don't know. I I don't know if you can compare like because that's a different world. That's a completely different world to to the improv performer who gets up on stage and or the trooper gets up on stage and does improv in a small theater somewhere in I don't know, Glebe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But I guess uh the thing that you brought up that I want to come back to, which is which was interesting, is the audience, right? Is kind of like the way that the audience approaches it. Um like you was we were kind of saying that, well, Wayne Brady has to uh they kind of have to market themselves in a certain way, and then the audience expects a certain consistency, I guess, in in that level of stand-up, you know, quality or whatever, right? Um, but I mean, I don't know if audiences audiences might, in my mind, be like, hey, let's go listen to some live music tonight. Okay. They might go, hey, let's go see some stand-up tonight. I don't care who's on. I don't know if people are like, hey, let's go see some improv. But is that but but but also is that because of the scarcity, as in like there's just not enough, you know, general kind of improv clubs or whatever out here in Sydney that people can have that uh uh opportunity to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know either.
SPEAKER_02Because I do I do th feel or think that people do go to stand-up just and like don't mind what's who's performing, you know. They're not there, you know, particularly. Obviously, you do have those big ones that people will specifically go out to and buy tickets for. Yeah, but you also have kind of the you know, smaller clubs where it's just like, oh, I just want to see some some comedy, you know.
SPEAKER_01Um so maybe I don't know, maybe um so look well we'll let's look at it. Like when we're um producing shows and we're promoting the show, we don't promote it on the basis of this person will be in it necessarily. Um it's it's funny because even with um we don't like if I'm doing a uh Sydney Fringe show, uh anybody's show for part of Sydney Fringe, I I the the the strong point for me is that the the the um the style of the show needs to be sellable, it needs to be strong, it needs to be a concept that because i you that's what the audiences are going to be attracted to. Oh and as an example, oh you're doing a soap opera, um they're doing a a uh I don't know, a film noir um show, improvised show, that and they're attracted to that, and then they'll come and see the show. They won't go, oh this is a show, and and again James Hadley is in it, Hartley is in it. Um and uh James Hanley would be great, but we can't get him.
SPEAKER_02I mean, like he's just um not receiving my calls.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know, except for your friends, obviously. I'm gonna come and see you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. Yeah, see, so it's different, but it uh yeah. But I mean, like at uh at my level, at least in theater, what we've noticed is that primarily the the majority of our audience are are our friends. And that's not just improv. Yeah, yeah, but in in in in in theater as uh especially it's it's people will come because they know somebody in the show. Um I mean then maybe I mean maybe has the audience then, I mean, at least for that market, then dictated how we um market our shows and how we put it forward, you know. Is our is my response, yeah, uh a kind of of going, hey, you know, it's this performer and this performer and this performer this night. Is it is that a response to that kind of well, I'm I'm aiming for their friends because I know that that's who's gonna show up, you know, or who at least is I'm I'm connected to who it's gonna appeal to, you know.
SPEAKER_01But also that's limited, like your friends will only see you in certain amount of shows, and then now and now you know, after it you know, when you start improv and you go, Oh, I'm gonna invite my friends. When your friends go, Oh, this is so great, James is doing this thing, let's go and see him. And yeah, yeah, you're really good. And then you know, yeah, by the 11th. I know none of them have said that to you, but let's imagine that they went, Wow, you're really good, James. You should keep it up. Yeah, you're doing it. Tell me when you're doing another show, and you do another one, and da da da, and a year the years gone by, and then by the end of that year, you're gonna go, hey, I'm doing a show with Sidney French. They go, Oh, yeah, I've seen you do improv. And they don't come because understandably they're sick of sick.
SPEAKER_02See, you know what's the clever, you know what the clever part is, Linda? Yeah, those people are no longer my friends, so it doesn't it doesn't hold anymore. And all my friends are now just so I can get a new audience. Yeah, exactly. I just go down to the park and go, hey, do you want to be my friend to like random strangers? Um come see my improv show. But yeah, no, obviously you're right, right? So there's a limit to that. So I guess there's a there's a there's a there's an upper cap to that, and there's definitely been stuff in the past where I've um yeah, I've I've heard of the format of the show. I I I didn't really know who the performers were in particular, and I was like, oh, I'm really I want to see this, I want to be really interested. Um but but then if I guess I guess to come back to my original statement from a different uh tact. Tact? Tactic or point of view? Anyway, whatever. Shh be quite insert the correct word there.
SPEAKER_01I've tactic point of view angle come through a different door.
SPEAKER_02I thought you were gonna say insert the cricket noises. Um but um if if improv is about being honest, you know, and kind of being yourself and trusting your instincts on stage, um then, and kind of we we actually did touch on this earlier, right? Of like humor that resonates with particular people. Then and if the format itself you could kind of throw at any improv troop, and in in theory, once you know they kind of learn it and get to grips with it, they should be able to kind of perform it in their own way, then isn't that still a matter of that particular performer's humor or style or whatever references whatever resonates with me, therefore I go to see them. Yeah, possibly.
SPEAKER_01So then, yeah, then then it is But I don't think that's a common thing. I think that's just I don't think that's where the majority of audiences what attracts the the majority of audiences to come and see. Your improv show.
SPEAKER_02Hmm.
SPEAKER_01Or a improv show.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I can't disprove that because I have no research on.
SPEAKER_01No, it's okay. We're just shooting. We're just trying to figure we're working this out, folks, as we speak to you. Well, lucky you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess so.
SPEAKER_01I know that um when I was um on the board of Impro Australia and we were talking, we were working out theatre sports shows, um the marketing for spatre sports shows. When like audiences come to a theatre sports show and we can do well, we would do them in a large venue because audiences would come to see theatre sports. And what we found out was that they would only come to see that theatre sports show. So even if I promoted a show that wasn't theatre sports, but you know, Impro Australia presents this show and it's on at Belvoir, say, um, come and see that it's not the same audience. You you'd get a small percentage of that audience filtering down, but it it isn't so people would come and see theatre sports because it's a theatre sports show. Now, whether they're coming because they they see that these are the players they recognize, maybe, yeah. Would they still come if it was a whole bunch of new player players? I think they probably still would. Because they'd just love that show and that style and that short form style of play.
SPEAKER_02But I mean, okay, to be devil's advocate, isn't theatre sports though, like i when it's a big show like that, because it's comprised of, I'm assuming comprised of lots of different teams. Yes. So then wouldn't that mean that the that you'd have just so many players that, you know, if they each invited two people, and those people invited two people, and those people invited two people, then you at the top would be able to skim off ten million dollars and go do Barbados.
SPEAKER_01Which is how I've managed to buy all these fabouge. Look at them all so pretty and glistening.
SPEAKER_02Um But you you know, but like you're right, like if you if isn't that a great way to kind of get a whole ton, a show just full of performers.
SPEAKER_01But we're looking at a like if you're looking at a venue and more theater, you can there's only that's not gonna fill your stalls. You know, that's still not enough. You still need uh and then and again, it's also the more experienced players your friends have sent you to your your shtick.
SPEAKER_02Um so over the long term it it's kind of got uh you can't rely on that.
SPEAKER_01I think it's is actually what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02You cannot rely on that being the pool. I mean, if you Diminishing returns was the word, the term I was looking for.
SPEAKER_01Which is also the title of my new novel. Um it's called something else by dear novel. Um I don't have a new novel. I'm lying. I digress anyway. Stop it, Linda, stop my brain is gonna get back here. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_02So then how do how do we how do we market improv? How should we market improv? Uh with the format alone?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I don't know. I this is just me, but I also We came here for answers, Linda. Okay. Uh no, we came here to discuss. Make a strong offer. I I still have I still find it odd when I see um a company do a a big show, and the lead up to that big show is the you know, and our players are these, this, this, and this and this people. Um look, I'm just gonna call it out. So so again, when I when IA does, when Europe Australia does uh a theaters will show at M Well Theatre, and then the lead up to it is you see the faces of the people in different teams. I I I always look at that and I think I don't think many people would know who these people are. So, but it's nice to have uh of something with faces on it because it looks like oh there's a look at them, there's a people doing a show and they're putting this on for me and or whatever, you know. I mean, they don't need to be famous. But I don't think it's I don't think it draws people in. Right. Oh my gosh, so and so is in it. Great, I don't think it does. I think it's yeah, uh maybe, maybe not, maybe I don't know, maybe it does, maybe a small percentage of audiences. But I think I do think that you're more likely to attract people by saying this is our format and this is the style we're playing in. It's a short form store. You know, I mean you're not gonna say it's a short-form stor uh, you know, form show, you're just gonna say it's theatre sports, and people will instantaneously know what that means. Those people who are into theatre sports will go, ah yeah, I know what theatre sports is, I'm gonna go see it. We used to do that at school and whatever. We still do it at school, they're gonna and they're gonna come. Okay. If you had that same cast and you were doing a um uh I don't know, I'll say film noir again because it's the only thing that pops into my head at the moment. Um show in style of a film noir. I don't know if you would think that cast would be enough to you know, pull people in. It's a long form film noir show. Uh it's a long long form uh murder mystery or it's a long form, you know, Australian kitchen sink drama. Uh I don't know if that cast would be enough. People to go, oh yeah, I've seen him do theater sports. Let's go and see him do this long form. What's long form? I don't know. Why am I talking to myself? I don't know. That's the thing I do.
SPEAKER_02Um you over there, cut it out. Um, but yeah, so right, right, because because the format itself, we're we're depending on the format and who's interested in the format.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Where you know, theater sports has uh, you know, a really popular and kind of long tradition. Um it's familiar with people, it's it's it's it's very uh fun and energetic. So then they go, ah, I know that format, right? Is yeah, and then and then with these other kind of whatever, you know, long-form film noir or whatever, then that will reach the people who like that format, but it just so happens that the the their sports is more popular, yeah. It's kind of right, it's like kind of what we're looking at, like in terms of like if it was the same cast as well, right? Yeah, I mean, I suppose so. I I mean, yeah, it's it's it's it I mean, without you know any research or kind of any um numbers in front of us, it's kind of hard to make conclusions. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but I guess, yeah, from from sorry, I was just also just had a thought, which but also if your ensemble and your troop, your improv theatre company, um has a reputation for doing good work, I think that's going to you know, bring people in. If you have a reputation for doing a kind of not real unreliable, dodgy kind of not great improv, uh that is going to mean that your friends are forever going to come and see you until they get sick of you. Pretty much. I think it's gonna be half you to, you know, so so uh an a company has um their reputation does affect who comes, you know, whether people come and see them as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I mean, and and and reputation generally it generally is uh kind of related to the those performers themselves, right? Yeah. I mean, but but but not in a way that uh I guess you know, if you've got, I don't know, much smaller, um maybe like duos, you know, or whatever, um, who are those people, um like I guess Bear Pack um Um or Middle Digit and Schwartz, but but kind of bigger than that, then those players become relatively interchangeable. And then people go, oh, it's just it's that troop or it's that school or whatever. And then that becomes the the brand that is um that has the reputation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Then if or if the format's a basic i if it say if the format is a level playing field, right? So that you know, whatever, film noir has 50 audience members every time film noir is done, because that's the format, and there are 50 people in Sydney who like that, right? So then the reputation of the troop that is currently doing that, that's the then thing that kind of pushes it up or down, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if they do, how will they do it? If they do it, yeah, yeah. Schmick really well, then yeah, then that's going to push it up, obviously.
SPEAKER_02Hmm. Okay, okay, good, good, good. So then so then I guess I'm just kind of summarizing for myself, really.
SPEAKER_01But like it's uh There are people listening though. What really? I think you're summarizing for all of us.
SPEAKER_02Okay. You can do it. Now I'm pressured. Okay, so yeah, so it it it's it's a factor. Like it it could be a factor amongst several things, like in terms of um the uh popularity, I guess, of of the show or how it's attended. Yeah. Um format plus reputation plus uh individual performers' friends slash uh prestige control. Yeah. Um obviously other factors as well. But it's not the sole determinant of it's it's a determinant of word.
SPEAKER_00It is good for me.
SPEAKER_02Um it's not the only thing that would dictate whether a show uh sinks or swims.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and potentially as as you get up closer, I guess, to the stand-up comedy scene or level or whatever, then you're starting to get those standout stars or comedians who can sell a whole show just on their name.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Uh yeah. But then again, I like I said in my first response, I I think that's problematic.
SPEAKER_02Um problematic as in like a there's a different it's a different like scene.
SPEAKER_01It's a different scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's not comparable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's fair enough. Um well good.
SPEAKER_01Well then I think once again you've proven me wrong about I don't know if I proved you wrong wrong. I think we just had a chat about it and you ended up being wrong. Just coincidentally.
SPEAKER_02You know how much worse, you know how much worse that is? That's like if you wanted to kill me and then I ran into like a door and then a sharp, and then yeah, I died. You know, well that was convenient. Thanks, James.
SPEAKER_03You're welcome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Um, but if um you're uh listening to the podcast, if you have any ideas or research or statistics, I'd love to hear them.
SPEAKER_01Um about anything in particular or um just well, I'd love to find out numbers.
SPEAKER_02I'd love to find out about the um the the rate of the decline in population in fairy penguins.
SPEAKER_01Oh god. Um for a moment I thought it was going to be serious, and then I remembered who I was dealing with.
SPEAKER_02But but but but but also like yeah, in terms of marketing, I'd love to hear other people's perspectives. Yeah, please. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01A little bit rusty on all this too. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02What are you what are people seeing in their audiences? Are they uh who are they seeing um attending? You know, who are they seeing um attending repeatedly, you know, and which shows are you going to and why, you know? Um I'll have to be honest, I don't think I've been to an improved show in a while. Yeah, um I I can't really um yeah, so so in thinking back of what attracted me to certain shows, uh oh no no, well, okay, actually, no, I do remember, uh it's partially improvised, I guess, part uh kind of partially. Um, is um uh Adelaide Fringe a year or two ago, I saw um drunk Shakespeare. So uh yeah, they perform Romeo and Juliet abridged, and then one of the actors is is drunk or gets drunk over the course of the Oh Drunk Shakespeare. Yeah, drunk, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I thought you said junk Shakespeare.
SPEAKER_02Oh, sorry. Drunk.
SPEAKER_01Um just a totally different thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Drunk Shakespeare.
SPEAKER_02Drunk Shakespeare, yeah. So what made you go and see that? Well, because well, I guess I didn't know anybody of the troop. I think I think they're from the UK and they they came down to the fringe. Um and uh I saw um I think I had seen I think I'd heard from somebody it was good, and or seen um posters and stuff that um uh that you know, lots of awards and lots of festivals around the world. Um and I was I am a fan of Shakespeare, and I liked the idea that um yeah, that somebody uh the the the the the actors would have to contend with uh someone who was unpredictable, you know?
SPEAKER_01Um so basically it's what we were saying, even though you don't know the the cast, they're they're not the setting point. The setting point is the style of show, the genre, Shakespeare, and um the fact that they're renowned for being good at reputation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. That's exactly why yeah. Uh I didn't I had no idea who these people were.
SPEAKER_01How was the show?
SPEAKER_02I hated it. Did you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I we all want to know why. Yeah, I mean, I don't Why did you hate it? Well it it it I didn't with apologies if there's anyone from Drunk Shakespeare listening to this, although I'd be super surprised if there was. If there is anyone.
SPEAKER_02I I I I guess I have I'm I'm I've I've got pretty I guess I'm it's it's a show that for it it took place with a large audience, right? So it's a it's a large tent. So it was it's pitched more at um pleasing a um larger group of people in a fringe setting, which for me means that a lot of the comedy needs to be quite universal, right? Especially because they're going from fringe festival to fringe festival. You can't uh comedy for me is often about a clash in expectations, right? Which also means that if you have those expectations, they kind of come from often they come from a cultural uh place, you know, which is why that comedy rarely able is able to trans uh is able it rarely able to transfer over borders, yeah, to a culture that is is yeah, because they have different expectations, right? Um aside from say like if you look at the physical comedy of like Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin is universal because we all have human bodies, but the cultural expectations that often comedy skewers aren't always universal.
SPEAKER_01Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_02So for me the comedy felt quite broad. Um and I don't know the uh I don't know the mechanics of the show. I don't know how it functions or it works, how they rehearse. Um, but to me, from my perception, it felt like many of the uh gags um had already been discovered.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02And um it didn't, to me, it didn't feel fresh or dangerous. It felt to me very safe. Um and um which which which might have occurred. So if I was to guess why that why I felt that way or what how that came about, maybe if they doing this show for so long in so many different places, eventually you kind of end up figuring out what the best gags are, right? And then you can end up uh holding on to them and then reusing them when you need. Um, I wonder if I saw or what I felt was that I was seeing a lot of these gags that had been played out.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um and and there was I didn't feel like there was a lot of discovery. Um in particular, there's one scene where one of the the joy of that format is that the one person who is um inebriated or inhibited somehow in the way that they can perform, um is coupled with all these other performers who are trying their best and trying to save this person, right? And that's kind of great, all great improv, really, right? Is you you kind of when you find a mistake, it's gold because you get to play in the moment. And there was one scene in particular where the person who was not drunk was uh really playing up the comedy uh in a scene that didn't need that from that character. Okay, and it struck me that potentially, I don't know, but potentially that comedic bit had already been discovered. And when when that person was drunk in another show, and now in this show, when they're not drunk, they're trying to replicate it and bring it back. And it didn't feel warranted, and for me it lost the when I when I talk about humor or comedy being a conflict of expectations, the expectation is the drunk person's gonna act strangely and everybody else is gonna have to deal with it. When everybody's acting strangely, it totally loses its edge of a clash of expectations. So then I was like, oh, now everybody's just being silly for the sake of being silly. Um, when I felt that yeah, the real gem of that format is the contrast between the heightened language and dramatic uh nature of Shakespeare with somebody who was drunk. Um, that wasn't the my experience of that was actually not the experience of I think the other people I went with or a lot of the other people in the audience. They loved it. Um and talking with other people about it, they seem to love it as well. So I would uh I would actually encourage people to go see it because I'd love to be wrong. Like I because it sounds great, you know, um, and it sounds fun, and the fact that they've done it around the world, I think is amazing.
SPEAKER_01So uh, but yeah, I um have the people you went to see it with, had they seen Improv before or yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So um I don't know. I guess yeah, I'm not sure what it was. Um maybe, you know, maybe um I'm pretty pretentious anyway. So maybe That's true. So maybe, you know, my expectations I should have gone in with you know different expectations and kind of gone, ah, is this more of like almost a pantomime vibe, you know, where it's kind of raunchy and rowdy and whatever.
SPEAKER_01Um you were probably just wanting something different from the show. You're just wanting to want something different. I don't want to have a kind of lowbrow, you know, I don't know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Sometimes that's good, sometimes you just don't want it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. So I don't, you know, I don't really want to um shit on anybody else anybody else's show. No, I don't. Um but uh That's messy. Yeah, and hard and to to to you know to really eat that much food beforehand. But um so yeah, it that particular n performance, I guess, and me going into it, um, yeah, it didn't resonate with me. But I would actually really be interested in hearing other people's opinions about it, you know. So please see it, you know. Um and uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I will. I'll go see it right now.
SPEAKER_02Well, hopefully if it comes to Sydney, then yeah, in like um a Sydney French festival, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I think I think uh we should do it. Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, you're saying perform it. Yeah. Oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Terrible idea. Well, for me, no. Well, my concern, I I thought you meant put do it as in go and watch it. And I was like, oh yeah, actually, I I can't maybe I would watch it again. Um because you know, obviously there's they do other, they don't just do Romeo and Juliet, they do you know all the others. Um but it kind of worried me about insurance. Because if I have an actor who's on stage that's drunk, doesn't it avoid my insurance? I don't know, you know.
SPEAKER_01So I mean see, folks, this is how James's brain works. The producer. Everyone's watching this show and they're all laughing. This is so funny. And James is going, I wonder how their insurance works. I wonder if you don't really love if someone's giving him a lift.
SPEAKER_02It really is because I'm watching, going, wait, what alcohol are they consuming? And like, okay, what does that look like? Is that real alcohol? Did you have to start drinking? Yeah, yeah, exactly, right?
SPEAKER_01James is thinking through the streets. I'm just talking about all the logistics of it.
SPEAKER_02You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01How are they covered for occupational health and safety rates?
SPEAKER_02Are those stairs, you know, the the drop in those steps too high? You know, are they gonna trip and fall? And then whose fault is that gonna be, you know? Um I don't that's actually it is what I was thinking of.
SPEAKER_01Can I tell you that I have a stage manager friend who every time she goes and sees a show, that's exactly she's just finds it hard to relax relax. Have they marked that? Is it like stresses her out?
SPEAKER_02It's it's it's funny because I guess also as improvisers, we also we have that peak behind the curtain as well, right? So when we see shows, we can also be like, uh, like not that I know how that's done like a magic trick, but more like I see what like we might be more tuned to like offers that don't get picked up, or we can see when people are going, like performers are going, like, hey, there's also this offer that we haven't wrapped up, and like, oh yeah, we need to do that. Yeah, so it it I just remember um back in like English class, um, I think it was English class in high school, where I think it was like somebody was saying, like, well, oh, but if we analyze this, um aren't we just gonna enjoy uh if we're gonna learn how to analyze texts like this, aren't we gonna end up not enjoying the text in the future if we know how to analyze it and not just enjoy it? And that's that's kind of the truth. Yeah. But it's such a bad thing to tell. Because then every high school is like, oh, well then that's a really good reason for me to not to learn how to analyze these things, you know?
SPEAKER_01No, you just you end up using a different part of your brain. There's a brain that says, I'm gonna read this text or watch this thing just for my enjoyment, and there's but you have to switch off the brain that says, I am a director and I'm gonna watch this with my director's brain and make notes. I need to practice. You kind of need to but I do think it does it does filter through once your analytical brain is is there watching some form of entertainment, be it reading a book or watching a film. If your analytical brain is the loudest part of you, um then yeah, it is going to it's it's just gonna happen. You're never gonna turn it off completely because that's that makes you who you are. That's that's as creatives, that's that's just how we work. We watch we watch other things also to be inspired and to learn and to grow. It's creative. So it's you know, it's always gonna be there.
SPEAKER_02But have we sucked the magic out of it?
SPEAKER_01No, you will know when you suck the magic out of it because you'll wake up in the morning going, oh no, I'm gonna open up a donut franchise.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, I had that this morning.
SPEAKER_01Did you? Yeah, I woke up and went, oh, I'm gonna open up a donut franchise. You know what? I wanna I believe you in your dream. Thanks. I want you to open up a donut franchise.
SPEAKER_02I do. Good. Yeah, it'll be called Drunken Donuts. Can I work there?
SPEAKER_01Drunken Dunkin'.
SPEAKER_02And I'll make them while I'm drunk. Okay. And you can work there.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_02And we all drink and we lose our insurance.
SPEAKER_01And I think on that note, we should call this episode to a close.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Last drinks, everybody.
SPEAKER_02Last drinks. Thanks everyone for listening. Um thanks, folks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, please let us know uh yeah, what you think. Leave us a comment on Facebook on our Facebook page, which is just called Linda Tells James. You'll do a little search, you'll find us on the Book of the Face. Um, or send us an email at lindatellsjames at gmail.com. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you all. Yes, tell us if there's anything you want us to uh nut out for you for the well-being of the universe.
SPEAKER_02And um, oh, and also um, you know, wherever you get our um subscribe to our podcast from, please leave us a review. Um, give us a rating. Yes, please. Um, that'd be uh great um to help us out.
SPEAKER_00Yes, please. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Thanks everyone.
SPEAKER_00I love you too.
SPEAKER_02Love you tuning.