4. we have all this

When investigators fail to get confessions out of their lead suspects, they resort to shocking pressure tactics. But will their brutal squeezing solve the crime, or just destroy more lives?

Transcript

SPEAKER_11 0:04

New details are emerging in the weekend property searches connected to the Roden family murders in Pike County.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Billy, Angela George, and Jake Wagner are at a rest stop in Canada when they see news coverage of the raids on their former house and on Billy's mother's farm.

SPEAKER_08 0:20

They are looking for information about another family connected to the victims.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

And they see their pictures on TV.

SPEAKER_08 0:25

Please take a look at your screen. We're going to show you their photos right now.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Identified as suspects in the Pike County Massacre Investigation.

SPEAKER_07 0:32

The Ohio Attorney General's office is looking for information about four people in connection with the killing of eight people in Pike County.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

The Wagners are, of course, traveling with two little grandchildren, Jake and Hannah May's 13-month-old daughter and George's four-year-old son. Border Patrol agents take the two little kids into temporary custody while they send each of the four adult Wagners into different interrogation rooms. Waiting for them in these interrogation rooms here at the top of Montana are agents from Ohio's Bureau of Criminal Investigation. Now, these BCI agents who intercept the Wagners here at the border do not place any of the Wagners under arrest. So the Wagners are free to choose for themselves. They can cooperate with the agents here, or they can just leave. On this day at the border, skilled BCI investigators question Jake Wagner for four hours by himself, no lawyer, and those investigators come away from this interview with nothing. You might be wondering, how can I know the agents got nothing useful out of a four-hour interrogation of Jake? Well, this gets a little complicated, but it's really worth getting into for just a second. There is, of course, a recording of this four-hour interview with Jake. And you would think that once this case goes to trial, as it does five years later in 2022, prosecutors will use this tape as evidence. They'll enter it into the official record and will hear it during the trial. But that's not what the Ohio prosecutors do. They actually go really far out of their way to make sure this four-hour tape of Jake never gets into the record. On the other side, the defense will file a motion saying, hey, we know there's this recording of a four-hour interrogation of Jake Wagner and we want to hear it. But the prosecution will file a response arguing that they don't have to enter it into the record because they admit that this four-hour interrogation of Jake does not help their case. But man, I wish I knew what happened during that four-hour interrogation of Jake and why the state of Ohio really doesn't want any of us to hear it.

SPEAKER_15 3:33

Angela, this is Jenny Homersford, and I'm ready for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

We do, though, have the tape of BCI agents interrogating Angela Wagner at the border.

SPEAKER_15 3:47

We just want to get away from down there and talk to you outside of the state of Ohio and Pike County.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

Because prosecutors say this one does help their case.

SPEAKER_15 3:55

We want to talk to you, like maybe like just a fresh perspective on things. Okay. But this is the thing. I have to, because you're in this room and you're at the border, have to read you Miranda rights. Do you have a problem with that? That's just saying you don't have the right. You have the right not to talk to me. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

The BCI agents start by having Angela waive her right to an attorney. And Angela doesn't even hesitate.

SPEAKER_16 4:17

And would you read that part of the loud? I have read this statement of my rights, and it has been read to me, and I understand what my rights are. I'm willing to make a statement and answer questions. I do not want a lawyer at this time. I hear about it voluntarily and intentionally wave my right and willing to make a statement and answer questions.

SPEAKER_15 4:33

Yeah, right there, please.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Their questioning starts out friendly.

SPEAKER_15 4:37

I have some personal questions for you though. How was the last?

SPEAKER_04 4:42

Oh, we live in. These agents try to make it sound like they had nothing to do with the big media-friendly raid on the Wagner's former house.

SPEAKER_15 4:49

Have you been following any of that?

SPEAKER_16 4:51

Of course. Yes. Like crazy. Am I mad? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Angela, of course, is not happy about the raids.

SPEAKER_15 4:59

Why do you guys think we're searching the phone?

SPEAKER_16 5:01

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

She tells the agents that if during the more than a year that the Wagners have been cooperating, the agents had wanted to search their house, she would have let them.

SPEAKER_16 5:11

This is the part I'm saying about sure. We gave them everything according to exactly what they were leaving. New cell phone numbers, everything. I even called them all the way along this trip. Right? I told them when I got in handy up. I told them what a hotel I was in. And then you know we get halfway up the road and they're down there searching the farm. But the thing is, they couldn't buy us. All they had to do was say, hey, we want to search. Or hey, you're moving. The tenth is your last day here. We want to search. I'd open the door.

SPEAKER_15 5:44

We're just trying to do our job. I understand that. You've been you've been great. Don't give me your wrong, you've been ready.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Over the next hour and a half, the agent slowly moved the conversation to Jake's relationship with Hannah Mae Rodin.

SPEAKER_16 5:58

Hannah and my son Jake were together for five years. Were they married? Yeah. Okay. And she took a break and he changed it. Well, with his heart. Of course. You know, Jake, she was alone in his life. Right. He was devastated for a while, you know, but they, gosh, they stayed best friends.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

They talk for a while about how after Hannah May broke up with Jake, the two of them made an informal arrangement to split their daughter's time between their houses. And then they talk about the formal custody papers Jake wanted Hannah May to sign.

SPEAKER_15 6:30

They had undone paperwork. What was the paperwork gonna say? The same thing. Okay, so there was gonna be a written agreement today.

SPEAKER_16 6:36

Yeah, it's just based on the right of what was already in. Did that ever happen? Well, here's the thing. She had an appointment to take it and had it looked over, and then something came up, and she uh rescheduled it. Then something came up again, and uh it's it's still the best way to remain.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Then, almost two hours in, the agents get to the point.

SPEAKER_15 7:00

Kind of beaten around the bush for you, but I think you know where I'm going. Okay. So I'm I'm asking you.

SPEAKER_16 7:07

Did you think that my son did it? No.

SPEAKER_15 7:09

I'm asking you, I'm I I'm okay. Can you tell me definitively no?

SPEAKER_16 7:14

Yes, I can tell you definitively no. Just tell me why you tell me why. Because one, my son wouldn't do that. And even though him and Hannah broke up, it wasn't that kind of a breakup into the whole thing. It was enough. Even though Jake still loves her, he probably still loves him. And they went through a whole lot, but not to the point. Not to the point of murder.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

The agent suggests that Jake killed Hannah May and all eight of the rodents, and that Angela is now covering for him.

SPEAKER_15 7:50

Could this append up without your knowledge? And did you know about it after the fact?

SPEAKER_16 7:56

No, I did not know about it.

SPEAKER_15 7:58

Did something happen? And then you were like, what the fuck? No.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

They even try to say that Jake had a good reason to kill all eight of the rodents.

SPEAKER_15 8:10

The rodents basically were in all kinds of shit. I mean, I'm not gonna sugarcoat this. They were growing marijuana, okay, they were sullen marijuana, they were sullen cocaine, okay. Anna was was kind of promiscuous as she gets pregnant again, and then she's uh got another boyfriend aside from her new baby. And we're not even sure who the dad is initially. And so listen, uh accommodation for these things.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

And then the agents explain something that is absolutely essential for understanding the state of Ohio's case against the Wagners.

SPEAKER_15 8:50

I'm gonna be completely frank with you, you and I have had a good rapport, you know, and you've been great. I'm not gonna take that away because you've been sitting here and you've been answering our questions, but I don't believe everything you're telling me.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

They tell Angela that they have evidence tying the Wagners to the massacre. Right here in this interrogation room at the Montana border, these two agents lay out all of the forensic evidence that they say proves the Wagner's guilt. These agents are gonna show Angela three pieces of forensic evidence.

SPEAKER_15 9:32

So that's right, this is so familiar with you.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

And I'll tell you right now that these three pieces of evidence are basically all the investigators will ever have. It's what they have at the Montana border a year into the investigation. It's basically all they'll have a year later when they finally charge the Wagners with the murders. It's pretty much all they'll have five years later when they take George Wagner to trial. And it's very likely all they have today in 2026, almost nine years later, as they finally prepare for Billy Wagner's trial.

SPEAKER_09 10:07

Do you have that?

unknown 10:10

Um I want to show you.

SPEAKER_15 10:12

Um just see if you can help me.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

First, the agents say they found an important document during their search of the Wagner's storage shed.

SPEAKER_15 10:24

We got a notarized document in the event of the death of, and this is the date it was printed out.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

This legal document says that in the case of Hannah May Roden's death, custody of Jake and Hannah May's daughter will go to Jake.

SPEAKER_15 10:41

This is the day it was printed out about the computer.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

The agents say their computer forensics team is able to prove that someone in the Wagner household printed this document out three weeks before the murders.

SPEAKER_15 10:55

This is really interesting to me. That this was printed out three weeks before the murder.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

And Angela doesn't know who printed the document.

SPEAKER_15 11:04

I don't know. I might have printed it. Could you think maybe a reason why you would do it? No, I don't. I mean, I just thought we meant. Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

That sounds pretty bad, and you can see what the agents are getting at.

SPEAKER_15 11:15

That would be like, for example, Angela, if Jenny and I were married, and I mysteriously died. But Jenny's two to three days before my unsuspected death, she prints out all the documents related to my payments, my life insurance policy. You see where I'm going with this?

SPEAKER_04 11:34

But once you start looking into it, you quickly see that this is really different. This document was signed and notarized in 2014, two years before the murders. When BCI rummaged through the Wagner storage trailer, they pulled out a plastic tub stuffed with papers and found a copy of this two-year-old document. And they're saying their lab can somehow tell that somebody in the Wagner household must have printed this copy three weeks before the murders. And the part they conveniently leave out is that the Wagners did absolutely nothing with this document, not the original or the copy. They never used it for anything. And then left this supposedly crucial document stuffed in storage when they moved to Alaska. Oh, and just to be clear, because it's gonna become important later, this is not the document that was at the center of Jake and Hannah May's custody dispute. It's not even a custody document. It's a living will that Hannah May signed while she and Jake were still together, before there even was a custody dispute. But at the border, the BCI agents make it sound like proof.

SPEAKER_16 12:35

Do you understand why this is something I have to ask you about? You want to see that? Yeah, of course I understand.

SPEAKER_15 12:42

So look where we're at now, and I got a couple other things I want to go over with you and get your phone going.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Then the agents move on to their two pieces of scientific evidence.

SPEAKER_15 12:55

These right here are a crime scene that I want to show you.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

And keep in mind that this is the evidence from four different horrific crime scenes with eight victims.

SPEAKER_15 13:05

These are foot impressions made in blood. Okay, I have a killers.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

They say they have a bloody shoe print from one of the rodent houses.

SPEAKER_15 13:15

So what we have as eye glass is we can take any shoe tread in the world and identify the manufacturer.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

They say that their forensic scientists are able to tell what brand of shoe left that print.

SPEAKER_15 13:31

Now, during our search, we have a receipt for those shoes purchased by you.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

Then they say that during their search of the Wagner storage trailer, they found a receipt showing that less than a month before the murder, Angela Wagner bought that brand of shoe.

SPEAKER_15 13:53

It was a purchased right around G useful photo merch.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

First, I just want to say that you can now find a photo of this bloody shoe print from the Roden crime scene just by Googling it. I think you'll find that to call it a print is really an exaggeration. It's more like a smudge with a part of a shoe tread identifiable. But even if it were a perfect print, the agents are not saying that they found the bloody shoe that made that print. They're saying they found a receipt for the same brand of shoe.

SPEAKER_15 14:34

So you do remember buying them?

SPEAKER_16 14:36

Yeah, I got them, but I don't I don't know how they can be the exact ones.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

And that brand? It's not some distinctive one-of-a-kind shoe with a special tread. It is a Walmart brand shoe. You know how discount stores like Walmart or Costco sell all kinds of brands, but then they also have their own in-house brand that they make themselves and they sell it really cheap? That's what this is. Even today, you can get a brand new pair of these for like 18 bucks. And they sell them in every Walmart in the world. Do you think there might be a few other people walking around Pike County or Southern Ohio or all over America with that same brand of shoe? Remember, this is the very best piece of scientific evidence that BCI says it has against the Wagners all the way up through today. It's not gonna get better than this. Then the agents lay out their third and final piece of evidence.

SPEAKER_15 15:38

Okay, so you really did a search warrant on the house digital.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

I'll try not to take up too much of your time with this one though, because it's based on a type of forensic science that all kinds of studies and court cases have shown to be pretty much useless.

SPEAKER_15 15:53

We have listened to expressions when you fire a casing on it.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

The agents say they found 22 caliber bullet casings at the road crime scene. Then, more than a year later, agents found 22 caliber bullet casings on the driveway of the house that the Wagners had just moved out of.

SPEAKER_12 16:18

And then here's a lab report from the casing that we found in your driveway.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

The agents claim that their scientists can tell without a shadow of a doubt that the 22 caliber casings at the crime scene and the 22 caliber casings at the Wagner's former home a year later came from the same exact gun. Not just the same caliber of gun, and not just the same make or model of gun, but literally the same exact individual gun.

SPEAKER_16 16:54

There's no way! Angel, there's the report. Okay, I'm telling you, there is no way.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

So let's put aside the fact that agents say they found these casings outside the Wagner house after the Wagners sold the house and moved out of it. Let's just focus on the science of this one.

SPEAKER_15 17:12

I don't see how there could be a match. There is a match. Okay, I'm not making this stuff up.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Of course, the BCI agents don't explain any of this to Angela Wagner at the time, but we now know that they're relying on a type of forensic science called firing pin impression analysis. When you pull the trigger of a gun, the trigger causes a hammer inside the gun to slam a little metal pin, the firing pin, super hard against the back of the bullet casing. The firing pin leaves a little dent. It leaves an impression. This type of forensic science studies the little impressions that firing pins make. Hence firing pin impression analysis. The BCI agents want Angela to think that their scientists studied the little dents in the bullet casings found at the rodent crime scene, and they studied the little dents in the casings found outside the former Wagner house, and they're now able to say, no doubt about it, these dents were made by the same exact firing pin. Therefore, only one specific individual gun could have shot them at both locations. Try to picture yourself using a metal pin to make a little dent in something. Do you think that dent is like a fingerprint where no two are ever alike? Of course not. These are dents made by pins that are mass-produced by the millions in factories. They're not that unique. In fact, years later, when this goes to court, BCI analysts will admit that they can only say that it's possible the casings from the rodents and the casings at the Wagners came out of the same gun. But it's also possible that thousands, if not millions, of other casings are just as good a match. In front of Angela at the border, though, these BCI agents can say whatever they want. So they say they're 100% certain. Same exact gun, no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_16 19:10

You're telling me it's a 22. I told you we own 22.

SPEAKER_15 19:15

Look through my eyes.

SPEAKER_16 19:17

I'm looking through your eyes.

SPEAKER_15 19:20

You're not you're far, far from stupid.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

But yeah, that's it. They've got the printout of the living will, the shoe print and the Walmart receipt, and the dents in the bullet casings. None of the Wagner's DNA is at any of the four crime scenes, none of their fingerprints or hairs or clothing fibers, no witnesses or cameras that saw their cars traveling to or from or between the crime scenes, no pings from their cell phones off of towers near the crime scenes, none of that. But these BCI agents talking to Angela act like they've got an open and shut case against her family.

SPEAKER_15 19:51

You told me you're definitively sure. I am definitively sure. Definitely after all this.

SPEAKER_12 20:01

We have all this. You can understand how this appears. If you're gonna have any chance to talk with us about what happened, it's now.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

The agents make an appeal to, or maybe you could say, a threat against Angela's grandchildren.

SPEAKER_15 20:16

Listen, I want to make something perfectly clear with you, Angela. I'm not against you at all, okay? I am more concerned about them than I am, I mean anybody. When I mean them, I mean those grandchildren. Okay, I don't want to leave them with nobody. Or for them to go back to some road. That's the last thing I want to do.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

So this is the moment where the Wagners finally stop cooperating with the investigation.

SPEAKER_15 20:45

Angela, you're not being 100%. I can tell by the way you're talking. Okay.

SPEAKER_16 20:54

I'm just gonna stop. Well, I don't want to make you myself. No, I'm just I'm just gonna stop right here and you I can get an attorney.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Angela asks for a lawyer, and the agents stop the interviews.

SPEAKER_15 21:06

Angela, I don't want to.

unknown 21:14

Am I being disrespectful to you? Just answer right away.

SPEAKER_16 21:19

I don't think that you are. Okay, well, I appreciate it. But and I know, I know what you're thinking, and I know what you're getting at, and I'm not I'm no, I'm just gonna talk to an attorney, and I'll send an attorney talk to you. Okay.

SPEAKER_15 21:36

I can't go on.

SPEAKER_12 21:37

That's your way. I just I just don't want you to miss an opportunity because you might not get this opportunity again to talk to us. I understand.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

The Wagners are not under arrest and they're free to continue on their way back to Ohio. And they do. But before we head back to Ohio with them, it's worth asking. If the investigators basically have all of the evidence they'll ever have against the Wagner. When they stop them at the border, why don't the agents arrest and charge them? Why are the Wagners in this moment at the border in May 2017 free to go? You gotta assume it's because the agents know that they'll never get convictions based on this kind of evidence. They're gonna need the Wagners to do what they've just tried and failed to get Angela to do. Confess. With a printout and a shoe receipt and 22 casings, they've got nothing but a confession? Well, that's something. When the VCI agents aren't done, they believe they have a lot more tricks up their sleeves to get the Wagners to say they did it. So, while the agents are interviewing the Wagners for hours inside the Border Patrol office, other agents are outside working on the Wagner's cars. They're wiring the cars up with hidden microphones. So from the moment the Wagners drive away from the border and route back to Ohio, BCI will now record everything the Wagners ever say inside those vehicles. And of course, the agents are now monitoring every text message any of the Wagners send and listening in on every phone call they make. But these BCI agents aren't gonna just sit back and wait until one of the Wagners slips up on tape. Starting right here, as the Wagners drive back to Ohio, they do something known in law enforcement as tickling the wires. It means that behind the scenes they do things to upset and confuse the Wagners, to put pressure on them, so that in theory the Wagners will be more likely to make a mistake and reveal something incriminating on tape. Here's how these agents start tickling the wires when the Wagners get back to Ohio in summer of 2017. First, the agents go to a now defunct local news website that lots of people in Pike County use to follow the Roden Murders case. This news site has a message board that's kind of like a local version of Reddit. The agents know that Angela Wagner, like lots of other people in Pike County, has an account on this site and she checks it pretty often. So the agents go on this site and they create new accounts for fake people. People who don't exist, but whose profiles make them appear to be residents of Pike County who claim to have direct inside knowledge about the Wagner family. These fake people post fake information about the Wagners that directly implicates them in the murders. None of it's true, but it's meant to upset and confuse Angela Wagner, who the agents know will see these posts. This tactic sort of works. After the Wagners get back to Ohio, Angela does read the posts and she is upset and confused. But on the secret recordings, she doesn't say anything incriminating. She's just freaked out, wondering why anyone would say such things about her. In addition to putting enormous pressure on the Wagners, BCI's fake posts help destroy the family's lives back in their hometown. They become total pariahs. When Angela goes to the grocery store, someone yells murderer at her. People throw things at their cars. It's important to note that before the televised raid on the Wagners and these fake posts, I don't think anybody in Pike County suspected them of being involved in the massacre. There were tons and tons of wild rumors about what happened and fingers pointed at a lot of different people with various theoretical motives. But as far as I can tell, before the public raid, none of the rumors around town included the Wagners. And this is a small town. A lot of people know that Jake and Hannah Mae argued over the custody papers for their daughter. But remember, at this point, the public doesn't know what you know about the evidence against the Wagners. They don't know how little BCI has on this family. And of course, after more than a year of total frustration over this horrific crime and the futile investigation, it probably feels good to think you might know who did it. During this time, the Wagners grant one news interview, and it's to the Cincinnati Inquirer. They proclaim their innocence and their love for Hannah May and the Rodents. They say they're devastated that anyone would suspect them of such a horrific act. In that same article in the Cincinnati Inquirer, the Wagner's lawyer makes a really interesting statement. He says he thinks Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine is trying to quote, make it look like he's making progress so that it doesn't come and haunt him during his run for governor. What does Mike DeWine do in response to this accusation? He doubles down.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

The information we have received in the last few weeks is very significant.

SPEAKER_08 26:51

Last week, Attorney General Mike DeWine asked the public for information on four members of the Wagner family. DeWine admits the request was unusual, a quote, rare tactic in a case with little to no movement for more than a year.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

But, you know, a few weeks ago, we had a real uptick in the information.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

In the campaign for governor, the first polls show that Mike DeWine is in a great position to win. He's way ahead of all of his rivals for the Republican nomination.

SPEAKER_11 27:26

Let's take a look at some numbers just in from Baldwin Wallace University. This, of course, in the Republican side for the governor's race, Mike DeWine has a very comfortable lead, almost twice as much as his nearest competitor, Mary Taylor. That's on the Republican side.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

And then, after DeWine starts up his campaign and gets these great polls, news about the Wagners and the Pike County Massacre investigation dies back down. After all that, agents telling Angela they have solid proof, that big public raid, the call for the public's help, the secret recordings, tickling the wires. Nothing happens. No arrests, no developments at all for months and months and months. Mike DeWine is off campaigning for governor.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

I think we have a great future ahead of us. Whatever we put our minds to, we can do. Mike DeWine for governor.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

And the Wagners are free to try to live their lives. But of course, in the summer of 2017, life under a cloud of suspicion in Pike County is a living hell for the Wagners. The only thing keeping them there is that Billy's dad is in hospice. And Billy's mom, who's understandably shaken up after the SWAT team raid on her farm, needs their support. But after Billy's dad finally passes, the Wagners once again set off for Alaska. And yeah, their lawyer keeps BCI informed of their second move every step of the way. When they get to Alaska, the Wagners find that the news has followed them there. Even in their little remote town, people know that the family is suspected in a mass murder back in Ohio. Some members of the Wagner's church go to the pastor and they say they're afraid to have accused murderers in their midst. The pastor, who you might remember used to be the Wagner's pastor back in Ohio, assures the congregation that the Wagners are totally innocent. In fact, he tells the church that he is now in direct contact with agents from the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation. The pastor says the agents have assured him that the Wagners are not going to be arrested for the Pike County Massacre. In Alaska, the Wagners settle in and they try for some kind of normalcy. They look for jobs, they become part of the community, and through the end of 2017 and the beginning of 2018, news and rumors about them slowly die down. Then April of 2018 rolls around.

SPEAKER_06 30:03

Tomorrow marks two years since eight family members were brutally killed, and their murders remain unsolved.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

At this point, it's been two years since the murders. Still, no arrest or suspects named in those killings. And almost a year since the raid on the Wagners and the interrogation at the border.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Last June, the BCI did ask the public for information about the Wagner family.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

These two-year anniversary stories bringing the Pike County massacre back into the public consciousness are not good for Mike DeWine.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Two years later, and there's still a lot of questions that are unanswered. We're here at the Attorney General's office.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

The case is still very much unsolved.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

So far, no arrests have been made.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

And the people DeWine put forward as the only suspects.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

The investigation remains focused on a family of four that left Ohio and went to Alaska.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Have been just going about their lives for a year.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

And their attorney says that they are not involved.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Right after the two-year anniversary, DeWine easily wins the Republican nomination for governor. Attorney General Mike DeWine, he prevailed in the Republican primary.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

For me, this is not a job. It is my mission.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

They show Mike DeWine in a statistical tie with his Democratic opponent.

SPEAKER_10 31:27

The three latest polls remain within the margin of error, with the real clear politics average giving Richard Cordrey a slight lead over Mike DeWine.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

When they dive inside these polls, Mike DeWine and his advisors can easily see that his two-year ineptitude in the state's most important criminal case is hurting him with voters. In a race this tight, solving the case can absolutely make the difference between achieving Mike DeWine's life's ambition or failing at it. So right around this time, at the beginning of the general election battle, things start to happen again in the Pike County investigation. And this is where we get to what I think might be the weirdest part of this entire story. The Wagners are living in this small town in Alaska, working odd jobs and going to church, and by all reports, just being normal. Then all of a sudden, a young woman shows up in this tiny town saying she's just moved all by herself to this remote Alaskan village, and she's joining the same church as the Wagners. The Wagner's pastor asks the congregation to welcome this solo newcomer, who says her name is Elizabeth Armour. Elizabeth Armour explains that this is the first time in her life that she's ventured away from the community where she was raised. She says that she has just left a strict religious Mennonite society. Elizabeth Armour says that her former Mennonite community is so strict it forbids the use of any modern technology. That's why when she shows up in Alaska in the year 2018, she doesn't have any social media accounts. She says her former Mennonite community is so strict, in fact, that it doesn't even allow its members to use cameras. That's why Elizabeth Armour shows up in Alaska in 2018 without a single photo from back home. She doesn't have any photos of herself growing up. She doesn't even have a single photo of her family or any friends. Elizabeth Armour is a woman who shows up alone in a remote village in Alaska without any evidence of having a past. But with a story about why she has no proof of a past. Then, very soon after Elizabeth Armour shows up in this little Alaskan village, she does something that nobody in town can understand. She falls head over heels in love with Jake Wagner. Why is that so weird? Well, let's see. Jake Wagner is 26, and the only person he's ever dated to this point in his life is Hannah May Roden. Jake is kind of handsome in a way, but he's painfully shy, and remember, everyone describes him as slow. But maybe the biggest red flag for anyone who would just suddenly fall for Jake is that he is the named main person of interest in a mass murder. And one of the victims is the only person he's ever dated. Everyone knows this. It's been in the media for over a year. It's not a secret. Yet Elizabeth Armour shows up in town and almost instantly sets her sights on Jake Wagner. Jake is flattered, and he and Elizabeth begin dating. Everyone around them is perplexed by the relationship. Elizabeth Armour is very intelligent and articulate, and despite her supposed sheltered upbringing, gives off kind of a sophisticated vibe. Jake is none of these things. Elizabeth also doesn't seem to have any of the same interests as Jake. She's not into hunting or fishing or off-road vehicles. She doesn't even seem to particularly like Jake and Hannah Mae's daughter. Some people around Jake and Elizabeth say that they have never seen a more mismatched couple in their lives. Now, what does this person, Elizabeth Armour, sound like to you? Yeah. Billy and Angela and Jake's older brother George all think that this person calling herself Elizabeth Armour is a plant. They tell Jake that they think she's been sent by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation under a false identity to spy on the Wagners. And maybe in some way they haven't figured out yet, to frame them for the Pike County Massacre. But Jake Wagner will hear none of it. He's in love. In fact, over Billy and Angela and George's objections, Jake invites Elizabeth to move in with the family. And she does.

SPEAKER_14 36:20

Oh, you're not. Oh, you're not. Yeah, you're not. No, you're not.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

You'll remember that during this time that Elizabeth Armor is burrowing herself into the Wagner's lives, BCI is recording them on hidden microphones and listening in on their phone calls.

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I mean, no sense, Jacob, but you jumped into that is probably what it hurts you can do in the background.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

In these calls, you can hear Angela trying to talk sense into Jake. And Jake, who we know has cognitive impairment clinging to this relationship. Whenever Jake's not around, she says disparaging things about him to Angela. Whenever Angela's out of earshot, she talks shit about her to Jake. But maybe the most upsetting thing she does is that early on she has this moment alone with Jake and Hannah Mae's three-year-old daughter. During this moment, Elizabeth either says or does something that deeply upsets this child and makes the girl from then on afraid to even be in the same room with Elizabeth. This little girl never likes or trusts Elizabeth. All these things Elizabeth does to antagonize the Wagoners, if you look at them in a certain way, they kinda seem like she might be tickling the wires. But if that's what she's doing, it doesn't lead to much. There are dozens and dozens of hours of secret recordings while Elizabeth is with them, but the Wagners never say anything incriminating. Okay, so when you hear all this, you might be wondering if Elizabeth Armour isn't who she says she is, if she is someone sent by Ohio law enforcement under a false identity to pretend to fall in love with Jake Wagner, would she also have to take that next step and yeah, have sex with him? Well, no. Because Elizabeth Armour claims to be a strict religious Mennonite, she says she can't have any physical intimacy whatsoever with a man until after they're married. So for now, Jake and Elizabeth's love must remain a hundred percent chaste. So this stuff with Elizabeth in Alaska goes on for months. But then she gets thrown for a loop. The Wagners have been having a hard time making ends meet in their Alaskan village where good-paying jobs are scarce. Billy Wagner has a friend back home who tells him about a farm in Missouri that is willing to hire all four of the Wagners. They can go live on this farm in Missouri rent-free, and they can work the farm at good enough wages to pay their bills, and they can even save up some money. So the Wagners make plans to move from Alaska to the farm in Missouri. But Jake doesn't want to move without his love. He takes this as an opportunity to ask Elizabeth to marry him and go with the family to Missouri. Elizabeth says yes, and they have a very quick no-frills wedding the night before the move. Maybe not too surprisingly, Elizabeth tells Jake that even though they're now married, she's still not ready for any kind of physical intimacy. Just as the Wagners are about to hit the road on their trip through Canada back into the Lower 48 and to Missouri, Elizabeth all of a sudden says that she has an unspecified problem with her ID that might prevent her from crossing the border. Hmm. What could be wrong with Elizabeth Armour's ID? She won't say, but she tells the Wagners to leave without her, she'll fix the problem with her ID, and then she'll fly down to meet them in Missouri. And she does. The Wagners drive to Missouri and Elizabeth flies there separately. When they get to the farm, though, they find that the job opportunity is nothing like what they'd been told. It basically falls through, and the Wagners move one more time back to Ohio. As they get close to Pike County, the whole family, along with Elizabeth, goes to a Walmart to get things for their new home. The family is pushing their cart through the aisles of Walmart when they realize that Elizabeth isn't with them anymore. They look around the store and they call her name, but she doesn't answer. She's gone. Just after the Wagners have returned to Ohio, the person calling herself Elizabeth Armour, Jake Wagner's new wife and the supposed love of his life, disappears into the aisles of a Walmart and then vanishes into thin air. I'll tell you a little spoiler and say that after this, nobody hears from or sees Elizabeth Armour for years. She goes back into that state of being where there's no proof that she exists. But just as George Wagner is about to go on trial in 2022, Elizabeth Armour will come back into this story. When she does, the circumstances of her reappearance will be even weirder than the first time around. I'll also say that I think I know who Elizabeth Armour really is. And why she had to disappear off the face of the earth as soon as the Wagners returned to Ohio. I'll tell you what I know and what I think about Elizabeth Armour's real identity when she comes back for Georgia's trial. For now, in 2018, the Wagners are, of course, completely freaked out by Elizabeth's disappearance. Jake has to confront the possibility that his parents and brother were right the whole time, that she was sent by the Ohio Bureau. Of criminal investigation, that even though more than two years have passed since the murders, and more than a year since BCI publicly named the Wagners as the only persons of interest, the agency is still after them, and that is going to incredible lengths in its effort to nail them. Jake and the Wagners are right in this moment after Elizabeth vanishes to be very afraid. Because as the calendar moves towards Election Day of 2018, Mike DeWine is preparing to order the arrests of all four Wagners. That's next.