Much Much
Much Much is a faith-centered podcast offering honest, heartfelt conversations about the beauty and complexity of everyday life. At its core, Much Much is rooted in Luke 12:48: “From everyone who has been given much, much will be required.” It’s a call to live from a place of abundance, to step boldly into our purpose, and to pursue our calling—together. 🤍
Much Much
Convictions v. Commands (Part 2) - Episode 11
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Jesse and Afton continue to discuss personal convictions versus Biblical commands and their own experiences with the topic
So this is part two. It's fine. We're rolling it up. This is part two of convictions. If you haven't watched part one, you need to pop over there and watch that because we had some really great content for you in the first episode. And we're gonna jump right in. So we talked a lot about you know treating others.
SPEAKER_00We forgot our much-much. Oh I did. She's forgetting all the much much stuff. Okay, I need a much much moment, and guess what? You probably don't have one, do you? Do you have one? I absolutely have one.
SPEAKER_01You already talked about your facial on the last episode and conference. So what is it now? Well, you go first. Okay, so we talk about Casey on every episode. He sent a text earlier. It was like, it's such a nice text, and I've been super stressed this week. And I call I text Afton and I'm like, did you tell your husband to text me? Because I respond. It was like it was the nicest message to me and Afton, like being just so encouraging. And I said, This is either divine, a divine interaction right now, or Afton told you to text me. But either way, it was like exactly what I needed to hear. So shout out to Casey every episode, our number one fan. It was good, it was what I needed, and so it really helped me. Just like, okay.
SPEAKER_00Really wasn't for me. I'm just kidding. Yeah. I was like, you better text Jesse Joe right now. No. Okay, my much, much moment is going to be about um how awesome our conference was. Wasn't it awesome? So awesome. I mean, we had so many people there. It was amazing. God was moving, and we'll have more for you at our next episode. I'm dying because we got that.
SPEAKER_01No, that's that is your moment.
SPEAKER_00Okay. What's funny, I'm just gonna be honest. I'm just speaking. Like, I'm speaking about it.
SPEAKER_01What's funny is the conference is still two days away. So by the time this comes out, it will be like way past, and it will have been awesome, and there will be a bunch of people there, and God will move. I'm just laughing, I'm cracking at it because it hasn't happened yet, and it's totally because you speak it into existence.
SPEAKER_00I guess, yeah. Haven't you ever heard of that? Have you read your Bible? But that's my much, that's all I can think about right now. I'm sorry. I'm just like, woo, like, yeah. Anyways. So I am leaving for Michigan though soon. Oh, you are, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I'm going to Illinois, but that won't be as fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it will be. But I'm already excited. We're we're excited about our first trip with the two-year-old. Oh. Well, I mean, we've had a two-year-old before, but like for the with this two particular two-year-old. So I've been like trying to like gear everything around a two-year-old, which is not normally what I do. But we're doing it this time. Yes. It's gonna be great. So just you know, pray for some safe travels. Actually, this will be after, but you know, yeah, we can still pray for safe travels. Alright, let's get right back into this. We're gonna start talking about we were talking about convictions. We were talking about convictions, and if you didn't watch it, you should go back and watch it because it all started out from a Marco Polo that Jesse doesn't shop at Target, and I was literally in Target, just like living her best life, living the best life. She was like, and I was telling her all about it, and and the carts, and all of the carts, the coffee, her new cup, everything.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, you should see the super Target. She's like, Oh, I love, I miss Target so much.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, Oh dear.
SPEAKER_01Oh boy, one of those.
SPEAKER_00No, I just didn't, I was like, I feel I felt bad. Oh, you shouldn't feel bad. I felt bad that I was telling her about this amazing experience, and she and that's actually, see, I was trying to look out for you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01After you hear that, you're like, oh, I would just live vicariously through you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, um, yeah, we we dove into convictions, personal convictions, what a conviction is. We talked about all that on the bat on the past the previous episode, but we're gonna talk about scripture now, like the biblical foundation of convictions. And so first we're gonna talk about Romans 14 because it talks about disputable matters and what a disputable matter is.
SPEAKER_00Oh, what is a disputable matter? So obviously Romans 14, it's the key the key chapter for gonna be the key chapter for this. Yeah, yep. Um, so Paul speaking to believers and that who genuinely love God but disagree about the faithfulness, uh, what faithfulness looks like in areas where scripture doesn't give a universal command. So the gray areas. Gray. We would call those gray areas, okay? Christians were disagreeing over things, um, like what foods they should eat, whether certain days should be treated as special. Um, and Paul doesn't simply announce which group is right, instead, what does he do? He focuses on how believers treat one another when they disagree. So we're gonna learn some big lessons here, guys, today, okay? My first one don't judge someone over a disputable matter. Yeah, okay. Romans 14, 3 says, the person who eats shouldn't despise the one who doesn't, and the person who doesn't eat shouldn't judge the one who does. That is so meaty. Yeah, it really is. Um because how often, I mean, I'm just thinking, like, even this week, how often are we do we have something that we're offended or that something that we just don't agree with? Yeah, and that we make it into something so big, and in the general I I do this all the time, and then I back up and like I'll be driving, I'll be like, man, my I'll have a heart check. Like, what what's what's the big picture here? Yeah, did we forget the big picture? Because I mean I could fall over dead, you know, or whatever I think about stuff like that. I'm really weird with those stuff like that. But like you know, like it's like what's the big picture here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like and a lot of times when that happens, you're not really encouraging or inspiring someone to follow Christ and to be more like them. You're more turning them away from it.
SPEAKER_00I and and that, shame on us. Yeah, yeah, you know, yep, like for for being that way. Because I feel like we do that a lot. So the next uh and not even like it's just our emotions get in the way. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Passionate, very passionate people.
SPEAKER_00And our emotions- I don't know, we need to have a whole episode on emotions shouldn't lead us.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I'd be the voice to talk about that. Totally do that. So we should also be it says be fully convinced before God. So we're not just following the crowd. We're not just doing what Afton said to do. We're seeking counsel. So, like prayerfully understanding is this something that I should be doing or not, and making our own choices about convictions, not the commands, but about the convictions.
SPEAKER_00It says each one should be fully convinced, 14 5 says this, in his own mind. So, in other words, don't just follow someone else's conviction, you need to seek God yourself. And we kind of talked about this, like maybe God is convicting, like maybe he is opening that door through someone else. Yeah. Could be. But if your heart's hardened and your heart's not right, no, and maybe he's not, maybe it's nothing, but you need to just check that, check yourself. Um and and come before God and just ask, you know? Yeah, he's so good about showing us if we revealing to us. Yes, exactly. It's a better word. Um, so who are we accountable to? Who are we accountable to? So verse 2-4 essentially says, who are you to judge someone else's servant? So ultimately, like another believer belongs to the Lord, not to me. Yeah. Okay. So let's check that. Like, check that in your spirit. They don't, I don't own them. I don't have something on that. What are you doing?
SPEAKER_01I was looking at the timer. I'm a little high strung today. What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00But like we b like talk on that one for a minute. Do you believe do you agree with that? Or not? Say the last part of that again. You need to be listening better. Don't just follow someone or who are you accountable to? Yeah. Another believer belongs to the Lord, not to me. Yeah. Well, it's kind of um there we go. Get you back on crack. You're not allowed, she is not allowed to look at her phone. Get the phone away. I was looking at the time.
SPEAKER_01Um so on the other episode I touched on this, but I'm not anybody else's Holy Spirit. So ultimately, you're accountable to yourself and you're accountable to God. And I'm not accountable to Afton. If Afton thinks I'm doing something. If Afton, what are you counting? Oh, the two people. Yeah. Um, if Afton thinks I'm doing something wrong, and and she could say, like, hey, I don't agree with that. That's something that I would take to God in prayer and try to understand. But ultimately, at the end of all of our lives.
SPEAKER_00But do you really not agree with it? Or is it just like sometimes, yeah, you don't agree with something, and normally that's probably a command, like, sorry, like I do not agree with this, and I can have this. But or like, I don't agree with you going out and hanging out with Shakila or whatever, Shakira, whatever, whoever you're hanging out with, because I don't think it's good. Yeah. Because I don't think you're in the right season of life where you can honestly hang out with that person and not be affected. Uh or whatever. Maybe in the next season, but not right now. Now, that's different. But I was going somewhere with that. What I'm saying is like I don't agree with that because for myself, I think it's good to say that too, in some and like I don't agree with shopping at you know, Walmart. Yeah. For myself. Yeah. When we put it that way, I do think it sounds a little bit better. It's not so harsh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's not so harsh.
SPEAKER_00I'm not saying that you shouldn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm just saying that I I shouldn't.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But you know what? You go get your clearance deals. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's a nice way to put that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like that. That was totally good. Um a roll. Um, so this is a good one, okay? You're Jesse. But you're your motivation matters, okay? Whether they ate or abstain, Paul says they were doing it to the Lord. Two Christians can make different choices while both both genuinely trying to honor Jesus. Yes. Guys, we're all made up differently. Yeah. Okay? We say this like too, like, if our church isn't the right one, or if this isn't the right fit for you, like that's great. Go go find what fits. Find what works for you. Yes. And honestly, like, we have that in America, we have that freedom to do that. And we have all these. Just so you know, we're actually very fortunate. We're actually a very fortunate country because many countries don't have that. But since we're in the United States of America, I can state that. I can say that because it is, it's like, okay, we have it better than a lot. A lot.
SPEAKER_01So I think it just comes down to like whatever we're doing, does that honor God? Yeah. And if we can say yes, then yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, for instance, you have an example. No. If my sister decides to go out to go to a concert that I totally think sh that is she this isn't even something that happened. I'm just saying, like, if she was to go to a concert that I didn't approve of, that was a secular whatever, which I'm not saying that I don't agree with that. I go to s I go to them too, but what I'm saying, I'm not trying to judge anyone here. I'm just saying, but if that was my conviction to be like, oh, you know, or I got it. I had just got a epiphany. Guys, this is this is a good one. There was a time when I stepped back from my season from our chief season tickets. Because I felt convicted. I felt the conviction that we should step back for that season. Now, like I said, just because just because that season was a no, I've said that too. It's just a no for that season. It might not be a no for the next season, and it wasn't.
SPEAKER_01And it might not be a no forever.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And so I was convicted of that. And my husband was not, but he respected me and our home as one. And so we stepped back from that for a while. Now, do we have him now? Yes, go chiefs, okay? But there was a season where we did it, and that was placed on your heart, yes, you have to be obedient. Be obedient. Or yeah, you get really sick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Mic drop.
SPEAKER_01Mic drop, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that was a good one.
SPEAKER_01So I love the next one, and it's don't cause whatever you're doing, don't cause another believer to stumble.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we talked about this in our first episode a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Um I have I have an example for this because my dad, my dad's amazing. But um, my dad, I'd never seen him drink my whole life. And coincidentally, the first time he ever met Derek, he was telling me that he drank. And I was like, You did what? Like, I'm and he it had been I go, when was the last time that you drank? And he said, in 1980, let's see, eighty-eight, when I found out your mom was pregnant with your brother, and he said, Because I never wanted what I was doing to cause you or your brother to stumble. I never wanted you to look at me and say, My dad drinks, so it's okay. He's like, So your entire childhood and most of your adult life up until that point, he never drank because he never wanted to be an excuse for us to say, Well, my my dad drinks, so it's okay. Like, he's a Christian, and he's like, I just never wanted that on my conscience. I never wanted to cause you to stumble or anybody else, and so he just never did. And I was like, that's incredible. But that was like that was his this scripture right here. Like, you should not cause another believer believer to stumble. Let me say it right. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble, 1 Corinthians 8 13. And that's really just what he lived by.
SPEAKER_00So and I love that too, because love should matter more to me than proving that I'm allowed to do it. Yeah. Like just I'm I can do it. Yeah. Like, well, I can do it. Like, who cares? Well, that's kind of it doesn't mean that you should.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It doesn't mean that you should uh around uh that person. Yeah. Like, no. Yeah. Now I I do have I do have a question. Okay. This is not on our notes. We're going off the radar. I'm full of it tonight. You are. But what if like you're what do you think about like actually no, I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna go there. That's a whole nother episode, but I gotta go to that. We'll save it. Okay. We'll save it. So go to the next one. So I gotta stay on track or I get off. Um also Romans 14, 23 teaches that if you believe something is wrong and you do it anyway, you're not acting from faith. Yeah. So there's an important boundary here, okay? Um Romans 14, it's not saying that everything is a disputable matter. Something scripture clearly identifies as sin isn't turned into a personal conviction simply because Christians disagree about it. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um we can all, faithful believers can all reach different conclusions. And what's awesome about that as well is if you're so like, if you're not willing to open up in a conversation and see if it's not a command and if it's not, if it's something you can learn from, what a great way. Like I've learned so many, so I've had so many conversations where I have was so stuck on something that I learned whenever I was a kid that was never even like in there. Yeah, like that's not even the right way. It was prep it was presented totally different.
SPEAKER_01You have to do some discovery on your own.
SPEAKER_00And so open up those discussions, have those hard conversations, but do it in a loving way and come to agreement that hey, we might disagree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so if if there's an activity that's not clearly called sin in scripture, and the Holy Spirit has convicted you of it, then continuing to walk in that is gonna be a sin. And that's um that's the verse. Let me find it so I don't say it wrong, that if you knowingly do it and you've been convicted of it, it's therefore a sin. Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it for him, it's a sin. James 4 17.
SPEAKER_00You totally skipped. What did I skip? Well, I wasn't done. Oh. With Romans 14.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Continue.
SPEAKER_00No, you go ahead. It's fine. Well, I was gonna skip down to the next part so that we don't run over on it's fine if we don't get all of it on time. We'll get what God wants. Yes. Uh okay. Go ahead. See, I was gonna go into that later. I only it's fine. So I was I was like, why I wanted to go into your own convictions. Like, why why is it dangerous to ignore your own convictions? Um it's super dangerous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, if you believe the Holy Spirit is telling you don't do this, and you do it anyway, um it's just blatant disobedience. You're not following, God gives us a conscience for a reason. And I feel like the older we get, the more we recognize that. Yeah. Um, but Romans 14 23, it's really important. Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. So Paul's talking about someone participating in something while doubting whether it's right. Um so, like, whatever it is that might not be sinful for everyone, but going against your conscience is spiritually dangerous, okay? And you ask why. I'm glad you asked why. Um because I have I have some things that we can go over here, okay? Um if you are someone that continuously ignores your conviction, generally you're gonna be less sensitive to your conviction.
SPEAKER_01It turns lukewarm really quick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if God's nudging us and we repl we're we're just ignoring that, it becomes easier to dismiss the prompting. And I will tell you this like I've been in that situation many times where I've felt the Holy Spirit and I have not moved. And that was blatantly because of one, probably pride, two, because it was gonna be uncomfortable and I didn't want to be uncomfortable. But guess what? We're not called to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable and not comfortable.
SPEAKER_01It's always a missed opportunity when that happens. You always feel terrible that you didn't do what you're supposed to be doing. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, what do you got? You got any more on that? I'm just letting you go through your list with looking at your phone.
SPEAKER_01I know, but you're gonna make us close on time again.
SPEAKER_00We can we we start using other people's freedoms to justify our own disobedience. Have you ever done that? Yep. Well like it's okay because Apple's doing it. Jesse does it. I can do it. 100%. 100% done that. That's an easy one. Oh man. Um but we're not copying people. We're not copy-paste people. No. Okay. You might do that on your MacBook, but not in your walk, which it's very personalized for a reason. Yeah. Um, I like this one. It's not, they can be about convictions can be about protection, not punishment. Yep. Like I said earlier, I said, you know what, these convictions, like if someone's saying something, telling if the Holy Spirit is nudging me not to do something and it's something that's good, hello. Yeah. Um He's probably protecting from me from something, not trying to punish me. Okay. We don't always we don't understand why God's doing that. I mean we just we I mean we may not understand it right now, but there is an obedience issue underneath it. Um we may not understand we may understand it later or we may never know.
SPEAKER_01That's true. Sometimes you just don't. Maybe he's just saving you from something.
SPEAKER_00And it kind of goes with the sensitive you know, sensitivity this one does is like your intimacy with God. Like you want to make sure that that doesn't affect if you're just if you're dismissing your convictions, you're obviously going to be because you're silencing the intimacy with God. And also, this is another thing. You don't need my agreement.
SPEAKER_01That's good.
SPEAKER_00You don't need my agreement to not shop at Target or to not drink coffee at whatever or to whatever it is. Like you don't need my agreement to be valid. Yeah. Like that doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01Your conviction doesn't have to make sense to everybody else.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So don't worry about me, girl. Same. Um and that's probably whatever I have. That's what else I was wrapped that up because um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So what would you say to someone then if someone's struggling with whether something's a conviction, just a preference, or biblical truth? Like, what advice would you give for that?
SPEAKER_00You want me to answer this one too? Sure.
SPEAKER_01You want me to answer my own question?
SPEAKER_00We've been talking a lot. I feel like you should answer this one. I want to know what you said.
SPEAKER_01So I put James 4.17 again.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01And I put really just pray about it. Like, if you, if something is on your heart that you are kind of wrestling with, like, is this me? Is this God? Should I do it? Should I not do it? Try to pray about it and get some clarity because He's gonna He's going to give you that clarity. And sometimes it may be something that it's not a bad thing, but it's just something that you're feeling convicted of, something that's on your heart. And I think that you really just have to come to this understanding. Like, if I give this thing up, is it really a loss or is it gonna be a gain for the kingdom?
SPEAKER_00Well, and I also too think if we're looking at it as um a con if we're struggling with it being biblical truth, we obviously need to get down to the nitty-gritty, and you need to study your Bible. You need to study the context of what's yeah the Lord is saying, you know, if it's not a gray area, clearly, if it's biblical truth, you better you better be in your word. Yeah. You better be getting the the meat, the brisket.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I feel like sometimes when you're going to the Bible for something that's in that gray area, one if you're already questioning it. Yeah. It's so good, Jesse. I love that. It's it's probably, you know, already starting to be a conviction. And you may never get a very explicit answer out of scripture, but if you're spending all of your time trying to seek to understand whether or not you should be doing something, probably shouldn't be doing it. Yeah. It's just a kind of a something I would tell my kids. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it is.
SPEAKER_00It is like if you're trying to find ways to do this, this, and this, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
SPEAKER_01Just don't do those things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I think our closing question would be how can we hold tightly to biblical truth while holding loosely to personal preferences and extending grace to other believers who may have different convictions. And I think we just have to be really careful. We have to just we've kind of touched on all that. Like, I would like to know from you, like, if you've ever had a situation arise where we would love to know like your your comments, your feedback. Yeah. Um, so also we want to know if you liked our episode. Yeah. So make sure you like it. Share it.
SPEAKER_01Share it. Subscribe. Comment. Comment.
SPEAKER_00All the do all the things we would we just so you know, we we look at how many people. I actually don't own every week, but I did this week. And you know, those people that are watching, and you're taking your time out and watching, like, thank you. Yeah, we really appreciate that. That means a lot. And even if you're not watching and sharing, like someone else might just have needed this nugget, and we appreciate that so much. And we love our audience.
SPEAKER_01We love you guys.
SPEAKER_00We love you. So we will see you next time. Yes. But until then, you were made for much, much, much more.