Sanctum and Stone
Sanctum and Stone is a podcast rooted in curiosity, connection, and exploration of all that nourishes the mind, body, and spirit. This space is about asking deeper questions, leaning into the unknown, and opening ourselves to the wisdom that exists both within and beyond us. Through honest conversation and grounded insight, I explore the many layers of spirituality in a way that is accessible, real, and meaningful for everyday life.
Together, we’ll dive into topics like energy healing, intuitive development, spirit guides, chakras, and astrology, while also expanding into the broader mysteries of the universe. Whether you’re just beginning your journey or already walking a spiritual path, this podcast is here to support your growth, challenge your perspective, and remind you that there is always more to discover.
Sanctum and Stone
The Lovers - Tarot - Major Arcana
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, we arrive at card six of the Major Arcana: The Lovers. But this isn't a card about romance — it's about the architecture of a real life. We explore how every genuine yes is also a no, why belonging without choosing isn't yet adulthood, and what it means to make a true choice rather than a fearful or habitual one. Along the way, there's a personal reflection on the ghost of unlived lives and the spiritual courage it takes to finally land somewhere.
Timestamped Show Notes
- 0:00 — Introduction & The Lovers Card — Clearing up the most misunderstood card in the early Major Arcana
- 1:11 — Describing the Card — A detailed painting of the image: two trees, an angel, a mountain, and a threshold moment
- 7:26 — The Teaching: From Belonging to Choosing — The move from Five (Hierophant) to Six (Lovers) is the move from inheritance to commitment
- 8:52 — "Belonging without choosing is not yet adulthood"
- 10:56 — Every Yes Is Also a No — The deepest teaching: every commitment closes other doors, and that's what makes life real
- 15:16 — The Angel: Making a True Choice — The angel asks whether your yes is coming from your highest self or from fear and habit
- 18:40 — "The angel is the part of the card that asks you to tell that difference"
- 25:35 — The Shadow: The Inability to Choose — How "keeping your options open" can quietly become a way of never quite existing
- 27:42 — Personal Reflection — An honest look at the ghost of unlived lives and the almost-choices still waiting
- 32:20 — When the Lovers Appear in a Reading — Five different things this card may be saying to you
- 34:55 — Closing Image & Invitation — One practical invitation: find one yes you've been avoiding, and make it real
So we have walked together through six cards now. And we started on the clip with the fool. We met the magician at his table. Uh high priest between her pillars, the empress in her garden, the emperor on his stone throne. And last time we sat with the hierophant. The figure in the religious robes, the keys at his feet, kneeling in front of him. And we did some careful work with the figure of tradition and transmission and what it means to be a clean link in a long chain. Today, we step out of his temple and into something much warmer, much more human, much more in some way beautifully complicated. The card we are meeting today is the lovers, which is card six. So now I have to start this one with a small honest disclaimer. Because the lovers is the most misunderstood card in the early Major Arcana. And I want to clear up a few things before we walk in. If you have ever had your tarot read, or watch someone get their tarot read, you've probably seen what happens when this card lives up. The reader smiles, the client lights up, there is this small audible ho somewhere at the table, right? And the reader says some version of, well, this is good news because love is on the way. Soulmate is coming. The relationship will work out. Cubit is on the case. And I want to gently, very gently, push back on this. Not because the lovers has nothing to do with romance, it does. Romance is in there, but if you reduce this card to love is coming, you have flattened one of the most important and adult cards in the entire deck into a cute little hallmark message. And the actual teaching of the lovers is so much richer and frankly, so much more useful than that. The Lovers is the card of choice, the card of commitment, the card of what it means to become a real person by saying yes to something and accepting in that same yes, that the cost of every other yes you will now be saying is right there in that simple yes. It is in a way the most grown-up card we have met so far. So it's about that choice, it's about that commitment. So let's just let's I like to paint the picture here. So let's picture the card. A man and a woman stand naked in a garden. They are not embracing, they are not even in the most common version of the image, looking at each other. Each of them stands separately, their bodies turn slightly toward us. He looks up at her, she looks up past him, past everything visible in the frame. At the figure above them in the sky. That figure is an angel. Wings spread wide, face calm, hands extended in blessing over both of them. Behind the angel is the great sun, the whole sky is lit by it. Behind the woman is a tree. A tree is bearing fruit. And a serpent is wound around its trunk. This is and the artist is being completely unsubtle about it, the tree of knowledge, the tree of Eden. The tree that of the moment when the human story turned and we became the kind of creatures who choose. Behind the man, the man, behind the man is another tree. This one is bearing flames instead of twelve flames in some of the cards, which twelve is a very important number. Twelve signs, twelve apostles, twelve months. This is the tree of life, the tree of vitality, of spirit, of what burns within us. So you have these two trees, one for each figure, one for the body that knows, and one for the spirit that lives. Below the figures, between them, are mountains in the distance, including a single peak that rises sharply behind them, between their heads. And it's like a visible point of something neither of them can quite see yet. Now, I want you to notice something most people miss when they first see this card. The two figures are not yet together. They are not holding hands, they are not facing each other. Each of them is in this image, in their own posture, with their own gaze, in front of their own tree. The card is not picturing the moment after the union. It is picturing the moment before. This is the moment of approach. It's the moment of recognition, the moment when two separate beings have come into proximity and something is being decided about whether they will become one or remain two. That is the lovers. It's not the wedding, it's the threshold before the wedding. The moment when the two trees are still separate and the angel still hovering in the sky, and the choice has not yet been made. This is the image. It's the man, the woman, two trees, an angel, a son, a mountain. And underneath the surface of it all, a question waiting to be answered. Now the hierophant is five. The lovers are six. The move from five to six is, in some sense, the move from belonging to choosing. Five is the discovery of tradition. It is the recognition that you are not alone, that there is a community, there's this lineage, a way of doing this that has been worked out by people before you. That was five. That was the hierarchy. And there is real value in that. We covered it. We covered it last time. We are downstream of all those gifts, whether we consciously clean them or not. But there comes a moment, usually somewhere in our twenties or thirties, sometimes much later, when the tradition we were given stops being enough by itself. Not because it was wrong, but because we never chose it. We just inherited it. In the spiritual life, the real one, requires more than inheritance. It requires us to walk back into the inheritance we were handed and choose it, or choose differently. Knowing that we have the choice. That is the lovers. The moment of personal commitment. The moment you stop being a child of the tradition and become a participant in it. Or the moment you decide with grief and respect that the tradition you were given is not the one you can actually live in. And then you set out and find or build the one you can. Either way, the move is the same. From inherited to chosen, from given to client, from belonging by birth to belonging by yes. And I have to spend just a moment here on what I think is the deepest teaching of this card because it is the one that nobody puts on the homework card. Every yes is also a no. Think about that. Every yes is also a no. When you say yes to this person, you are saying no to every other person you might have built a life with. When you say yes to this work, you are saying no to every other career you could have pursued. When you say yes to this practice or this city, this commitment, this child, this hill you have decided to live on, you are saying no to every alternate version of your life that might also have been beautiful. It's not tragic. This is what makes life real. The person who refuses to say yes to anything, who keeps every option open, who refuses to commit, who stays poised on the threshold of every possible relationship and every possible location forever, is a person who never quite exists. Their life never leaves. They are an unspecified being full of potential, but never made actual. That the worst possible thing we could do is settle. But the word settle is doing a lot of dishonest work in that sentence. Because there is settling in the bad sense, staying with something less than what you actually want because you are afraid to leave. And there's settling in the older, deeper sense, which is letting yourself land somewhere, letting your feet touch the ground, letting your roots grow down, letting the wandering finally come to rest in a place specific enough to grow in. Settling in the old sense is what settlers did. They stopped moving, they stayed, they built a house, they planted a crop, they committed to a piece of ground long enough for the ground to become of old. The lover's card asks you to settle in this older sense, to let yourself land, to let become real enough to begin shaping the rest of your life around. And here's the part that almost never gets said out loud. The alternatives you let go of when you choose are not lost. They are not erased. They become part of the dignity of your particular life. The other lives you might have lived are present in your chosen life. They're living as ghosts, as memory, as a subtle weight of I could have, and I didn't. And then you think I am here instead. You chose this, and that's beautiful. The weight is part of what makes a real adult. It's the willingness to carry the lives you did not live. And I want to come back to that angel above the lovers. Because the angel is the part of the card almost nobody talks about, and I think it is the key to the whole thing. The angel is the higher witness to the choice. The angel is what is watching the moment of decision and blessing it from above. Most of us, when we make our most important choices, are aware somewhere that more is at stake than just our preferences. That this choice is being witnessed by something, by our own deepest self, or by the people who love us and the people who came before us. And by, if you have language for God, or the divine or the universe of your soul, just by something that is paying attention to whether this choice is being made truly. And what the angel is asking, it's silently hovering, waiting, questioning you, asking, is this yes coming from your real self? Or is it coming from your fear? Is this yes coming from love or from need? Is it coming from your highest or from your habit? Sometimes we just go right back into habits. We go for what is comfortable. So the angel's really questioning you on that. And the lover's card is not asking you to make the romantic choice. The lover's card is asking you to make the true choice. The choice that when you make it will be witnessed by the deepest part of you and met with peace, not with anxiety. Not with the small queasy feeling that you have just settled in the bad sense. With the settled, grounded, quiet yes that comes when you have actually chosen right. Most of us know when we are honest the difference between these two yeses. The yes that comes from the highest in you has a particular feel. It is calm, it is uncomfortable in a clean way, like cold water on a hot day. Rather than uncomfortable in a sickly way. You have stood at that moment when one city was calling and another was familiar, and you had to choose. Or when one friend was asking for something and another friend was asking for something and you could not give to both. You have stood at that moment. Even when staying meant one life and leaving meant another. And the angel was somewhere above you waiting. These are all lovers' moments. They are all the same card. The card is not really about romance. The card is about the architecture of an actual life, about how the life you are now living was built. Choice by choice, yes by yes, no by new. Until it became the one specific shape rather than all the other shapes that could have been. The decision to take that job, which led to that move, which led to that neighborhood, which led to that party, which led to that friend, which led to the whole that whole part of your life. The architecture of love is built out of dozens of lovers' moments, almost none of which felt at this at the time like cosmic decisions. Most of them felt like ordinary choices. Only later, looking back, did you see what you had been choosing. This was one of the kindest teachings of the card. You are choosing your life right now, even when it does not feel dramatic. The yes you say tomorrow morning to one thing instead of another is in a in its small way the lover's card in motion. The angel is watching, the mountain is rising in the distance, and something is being decided about who you are becoming. Now every card does have a shadow, and the lover's shadow is one of the quietly destructive shadows of the tarot. Because it does not look like a shadow, it looks like flexibility, it looks like keeping your options open. Sometimes it looks like wisdom. The shadow of the lovers is the inability to. Choose. It is the person who has been almost committing to one past for 15 years, who has been almost engaged, who has almost started the business, who has been almost leaving the relationship, who has been almost enrolling in the program, taking the mood, beginning the practice, claiming the call. Almost, almost. Always almost. Never quite there. The shadow of the lover's card does not on the surface look like a problem. They look responsible. They look thoughtful. They look like they're being careful. And we have all been told that carefulness is a virtue. But underneath, the carefulness is something else. Underneath is the recognition that as long as I do not choose, I cannot fail. As long as I do not commit, no commitment can prove to be wrong. As long as I keep both trees in view, I do not have to live with the consequences of having stood in front of one. This is a shadow. And it is everywhere right now. In our culture. It's all over. We are surrounded by people who have, with the best of intentions, made non-choice in into a way of life. They are afraid that if they choose, they will choose wrong. So they choose nothing. And the not choosing slowly becomes its own kind of life. But a thin one. Potential. The mature lovers move is to accept that you might choose wrong. You might and that's okay. Some of your yeses will turn out to have been mistakes. Some of your beloveds will become strangers. Some of your work that you commit to will turn out to have been the wrong work. The angel above you does not promise you a perfect outcome. The angel only blesses the truth of the choice, not its eventual rightness. The willingness to make a true choice that might still turn out badly, I think, is one of the highest forms of human courage. Anybody can choose when the outcome is guaranteed. The lovers ask something harder. They ask you to choose into uncertainty, knowing the angel is watching, and to be the kind of person who chooses anyone. Now I want to step out from that teaching and take a look at my own life. Now I always like to share how this is influencing my own life. And the Lovers for Me lands closest to the full. They are, in a way, the same lesson at different depths. Because the leaps I have been telling you about, the edges that I'm standing at, the steps I've not yet taken, yeah. Almost all of them, when I look honestly, are lovers' choices. I had an opportunity to go do a residency in Texas and in Minnesota. And I chose not to take them. I didn't listen to the lover's card. They were choices about what I should be committing to. And what I was going to find myself. What I was going to say yes to with the full weight of that and not the alternatives. And I have to admit, it was once I started realizing I needed to make a choice. Making a non-choice is not going to help you. Causes you to feel stagnant. And so I had to sit in that. That hesitation at the cliff is the shadow of the lover's card in disguise. Some of it is honestly the desire to not choose yet. Desire to keep both trees in view. It's this desire to be a person of potential rather than a person of particularity. I will tell you a small honest thing. There is a part of me that has for a long time preferred being someone who could do many things over being someone who is doing one specific thing. The magician version of me, the one with the four tools laid out, capable of many forms, has in some seasons been the way of avoiding the lovers. Because the magician with all his tools is impressive. Magician who has committed to one specific work in one specific place, in one specific community for the next twenty years, it's harder. That requires letting some of the tools sit on the table unused. And it requires letting the other versions of me die. The lover's card is, in some sense, asking me to choose which version of myself I'm actually going to be. Not in some grand dramatic way. Just in the daily small way of saying yes to this work and not to that work. Yes to that community and not to that community. Or yes to this teaching and not to the eight other directions I could go in. And I have, and I will admit, I found this hard. The ghost of unlived lives is a real ghost. I feel it. And I imagine many of you do. What I am beginning to learn is that the angel above the lovers is not waiting for me to become certain. The angel is waiting for me to be true. There is difference. Certainty is a feeling I may never have. Truth is a quality of choice that is available to me right now with whatever level of certainty I happen to have today. The choice I keep almost making is not waiting for more information. It is waiting for me to be willing to make it. Knowing the alternatives, I will not get to live. Knowing that it might turn out badly. Knowing that the angel is butching, knowing that this is what it means to actually be somebody. Know it's coming. And if you are someone like me who has been keeping your options open as a quiet way of avoiding the lover's choice, if you have been more comfortable as potential than as particular, I want to suggest gently that the angel is patient, but the angel is also asking. And that the life you keep almost living is not in the end going to satisfy you. The life you actually live, life that you actually live with all its narrowness and all its specific Oh my god. And all its loss of the lives you did not choose, that is the one your soul is asking for. If the lovers show up in a reading for you, they are usually saying one of a few things. They show up when the real choice is in front of you. Not always a romantic one. Sometimes it's a job, a move, friendship, path of study. And basically the lover's card is saying, pay attention. The yes you give here will shape many years. And they show up when a relationship is asking for the next level of commitment. Sometimes a romantic partnership it's there, and you need to commit to it. Or you need to choose to commit to it. Sometimes it's a friendship that is asking to be more deeply tended, or a community that is inviting you to step in further. Are you willing to be more accountable to this than you have been? And then they show up when you have been avoiding a yes. This is the harder one. Sometimes the lovers come not to offer a new choice, but to point out an old one you keep refusing to make. The angel is gently waiting up to see that if you're going to choose. And you have to eventually make the choice. The lovers also show up when two parts of yourself need to be integrated. The lovers are not always about two people. Sometimes they are about the masculine and feminine within you. Or it's the doer and the receiver, the magician and the high priestess. The lovers can be the inner marriage, the bringing together of the parts of yourself that have been separate, sometimes not getting along. And it's time that they become integrated once again. And then sometimes they show up to remind you that you have already chosen well, that the yeses you have been given so far are bearing fruit. That the people in your life are there because you chose them. And that the work that you are doing is yours because you said yes when it mattered. The lovers can be a card of honoring what you have built, of pausing to recognize that the architecture of your life, however imperfect, is yours. So I want to leave you, of course, with one image and one invitation. The image is the lovers in the garden, the man and the woman naked, separate, each in front of their own tree. The angel above them with wings spread, the sun behind the angel, the mountain rising between them, off in the distance. And the moment, held forever in the card, frozen at the threshold, is a choice not yet made. I want you to picture them for a moment. And I want you to ask yourself what choice you are standing in front of right now that you keep almost making. What yes have I been avoiding? Not because I do not know the answer, but because saying it out loud would mean letting the alternatives die. What is my actual life asking me to commit to? What is the work or the relationship or the practice, the place, the path that has been quietly waiting for me to claim it? And what would it feel like really feel to say yes to it? Knowing the cost, knowing the angels watching, knowing this is what it means to become someone in particular instead of someone in general. Now the invitation is this sometime in the next few days or weeks, identify one yes you have been avoiding. Just one. It does not have to be the biggest one. Pick one that you can actually move on. And then make it. Speak it out loud or write it down or tell another person, move some small piece of your life in the direction of that yes. So that it begins to feel real outside of your head. Not the whole commitment, just the first action that names the commitment. The lovers do not require everything at once. They require the truth and the willingness to act on it. One small, honest, yes, made queenry will move your life more than a hundred large, unspoken almost. That is what the angel is waiting for. Not for your perfection, not her or your certainty, just your truth. Made real. So now's the time to start making some choices. And remember, every yes is also a no. The life you actually live is the one you say yes to. You get to choose it.