Hopecast from the City Mission
Hopecast from the Huntington City Mission is a podcast for people who want to make a real difference in their communities. Hosted by Mitch Webb, retired Executive Director of the Huntington City Mission and a pastor with more than 30 years of experience, alongside Steven Little, current Executive Director, Hopecast encourages and equips those serving people facing homelessness, hunger, and addiction. Each episode features conversations with city leaders, social workers, ministry leaders, elected officials, and healthcare professionals who are doing this work every day. These are practical, honest insights from people committed to lasting change. If you are serving and need encouragement, this podcast is for you. If you want to make an impact, it will give you direction. And if you are in a difficult place, these stories are a reminder that change is possible. Lives can be rebuilt. Hope is real.
Hopecast from the City Mission
#5 - Guest Bob Hansen - A Life in Behavioral Health and Recovery
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Our guest this week on Hopecast from the City Mission is Bob Hansen, a longtime leader in behavioral health and recovery work across West Virginia. Hosted by Mitch Webb and Steven Little, this conversation walks through how Bob first entered the field, the experiences that shaped his leadership, and the lessons he has learned along the way.
Bob spent years leading at Prestera Center, helping expand access to mental health and addiction recovery services across the region. His work later extended to the state level, where he played a role in shaping West Virginia’s response to the opioid crisis and strengthening systems of care for those in need. He has also been connected to community-based efforts like Harmony House, supporting practical solutions for individuals working toward stability and recovery.
In this episode, Bob reflects on the realities of the work, the challenges facing communities today, and where he believes behavioral health and recovery efforts are headed in the future. It is a thoughtful, grounded conversation from someone who has spent decades in the middle of this work.
We're here today with our uh latest episode of the Huntington City Mission Hopecast, and we have our good friend Mr. Bob Hanson with us today. And some many of you would know Bob and some of you don't, but um I remember when I came to the mission in 2015, and the staff here said, Well, there's two people you need to meet. One is uh Francy Buchanan and and uh and then the other was Bob Hansen. And I remember uh sitting down with him and uh right from the beginning he told me some hard things that I didn't really need to hear want to hear about them uh the mission, but I needed to hear, and and he's been a good friend and um and a mentor ever since. So Bob, welcome. We're glad to have you on the podcast today.
SPEAKER_03Glad to be here, Mitch.
SPEAKER_02I've also got Stephen, uh Stephen Little with us today, and uh he has Bob has not only been a mentor to me, but for Steven as well. So I invited him to sit in with us today. And uh so well, let's get started. So Bob, just give us a little bit about your background. A little bit about well, let's do this. Let's start. You you're not a you're not from these parts originally, are you? No. Yeah, so tell us where you're from, and then tell us about your professional background.
SPEAKER_03Sure. Um basically I graduated from high school in Michigan and went to a college uh called Marietta College, right on the banks of the Ohio, rest cross the river from West Virginia. And so I started college back in at Marietta in 1967. And the first uh woman that I dated turned out to be my wife, Linda. And so we both uh started in 67 and graduated Marietta in 71. And we were married a week after graduation. And so uh in another month we'll be celebrating our 55th uh wedding anniversary, which is really exciting. Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_02Congratulations.
SPEAKER_03Linda was a uh at Marietta was a religion major, which is really exciting. And my major was in education and political science. So my goal was to be a teacher, yeah, a middle school teacher or upper elementary school uh teaching. Linda kind of realized that maybe, you know, for employment, you know, she wanted it and was interested in a different field. So she immediately upon graduation from from Marietta, she decided to go to graduate school at Ohio University. And uh and so I saw teaching jobs and I ended up substituting while she got a master's degree in special ed. And uh so she completed, I was teaching in Ohio outside of Marietta, and she was finishing her master's, and we both went uh to upstate New York uh to teach. A superintendent of a rural upstate New York school system recruited us to go up uh upstate New York outside of Syracuse to teach. And but the reason I got into the behavioral health field really started when Linda was in grad school at Ohio University on a Saturday. She and I, along with a bunch of other graduate students, went to tour a facility in Ohio. And in those days, if you think in the early 70s, a lot of people with mental disabilities were warehoused in what were called state institutions. So we spent, we rode a school bus with about 30, 40 other young people and spent a full day touring a state hospital in Ohio called Gallapolis State Hospital. And in those days, there were probably two to three thousand disabled people at in the in this state hospital. They had their own farm where they raised their own food and everything, and but people were locked up at all ages. We're talking about babies to seniors, but everybody had some type of mental disability, be it a mental health problem or a developmental disability. And and that one day kind of was kind of a watershed moment for me and stuck in my uh mind because what I felt overwhelmingly was that we're all put on this earth by God, and to be to have people who are different than us be locked up and not experience living as we know it, it was kind of shameful. So in upstate New York, we were uh teaching, and I taught one year, and guess what? I said, this wasn't for me. I was, and it was just luck for or God's hand that uh Syracuse happened to be the hotbed of change for people with mental disabilities. The professors in special ed in the program I entered called Rehabilitation Counseling, the professors there were leading a national movement uh that was later called deinstitutionalization. And basically that concept is to provide services for people with mental disabilities in communities versus in state hospitals. Because what I saw at Gallup Lease was all over the country. Every state had state hospitals where they were warehousing individuals who were different. Um so I was uh it wasn't really planned, but I entered this program where we had national leaders talking about concepts like normalization and deinstitutionalization, lots of books being written and about how you can serve and help people in community settings versus locking them up for their entire lives in state hospitals. So I spent uh two years in that program at Syracuse in really refining what I can do to make a difference. And so um I graduated in in 75 and Linda was teaching in special ed. And guess what? It's kind of cold in New York. Upstate New York. Yeah, so you know, we decided to relocate. This we didn't have any children yet, and uh, so we chose Linda's from West Virginia, from Fairmont, and uh she has a lot of relatives, so we kind of decided either North Carolina or West Virginia, and wherever we both got jobs was where we were gonna land and leave New York. So we both got jobs outside of Charleston, Linda in the Kenaw County school system uh as a special ed teacher, and I got a job at a nonprofit called Shawnee Hills, which was a brand new an agency that started about 73. So I started working. Some work. Yes, say it. Yeah. And uh and so I was excited to work directly with people with mental disabilities at Shawnee Hills Adults. That's what I was hired to do. And in uh 75. And basically in those days, there was Shawnee Hills was growing, and and I was fortunate enough to have the executive director there by the name of John Barnett, uh, kind of became my mentor. And so my days of working directly with people, adults with mental disabilities, uh really weren't too grant because within six months I was in a managerial supervisory position uh in working with adults with disabilities. So uh and what we did in uh at Shawnee Hills was really go to state hospitals in West Virginia, like in those days Spencer State Hospital, Coleman Anderson Center, and we brought people back to the Charleston area in in open group homes and provided services so that they could live in the community. So I was practicing what I witnessed at Gal Police, but what I was taught to work with people and Syracuse, I was putting it to good use into practice. And and so I spent five years at Shawnee Hills through the late 70s. Our two sons were born in in Charleston. Uh our oldest son is is Seth, and our youngest is Zach. And but I was probably the director of all the adult programs at that time in in uh in the late 70s, and uh there was a brand new agency uh uh being talked about in Romney, West Virginia. So I kind of felt compelled to try something to be the uh start a new agency, Baamatka. And uh I so I interviewed and for the job in Romney and and and it's called the Potomac Center. It's still very thriving today, and so I became the first director of Potomac Center in 1980. And and this is an agency that had some state funding, but had no mission, no purpose. Uh, and it was really up to me with the board of directors to to to kind of craft what the Potomac Center would do. And and so I did that for five years, and again, it focused on adults with and children with developmental disabilities. And so agency, no policies, no procedures, no staff. I was the first in Floy and got it to create that agency. And for five years I worked there, and uh then I was recruited to become the director of all behavioral health uh by the uh Governor Moore at that time, and and the director of the health department was David Eidinger, and they asked that I leave Romney and and come to Charleston to be the state director. So my whole career has been in behavioral health. I can go through all the steps. Um I really think it's God's hand, you know. I I, you know, every position I've had since 70 1975, and all my volunteer work has always been about helping people, either directly or or by helping other people help people. And uh and it's uh never tired of it as witness that uh 76 years old today, and uh not today, you know uh, but I'm still involved in in a variety of different efforts locally and statewide.
SPEAKER_02You know, one of my favorite quotes is the John Lennon quote that uh life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. And isn't it interesting how uh the hand of God you you you go to become a teacher, and and that's what uh led you to where you the thing that you needed to see to be what uh he had in mind for you to be.
SPEAKER_03So uh Yeah, and I br believe that really strongly because it otherwise it would be like happenstance, and I believe that. I believe in the and the fact that Syracuse in those days was at the cutting edge of doing some things, and the fact that I was living up there, uh we didn't move to upstate New York to be near Syracuse University. It I think it, you know, there is you know, there was a guiding hand there that that kind of pointed me in this direction I wasn't com aware of, but I kind of, you know, as my faith grows and you know, I really feel that, you know, God was pointing me in that direction.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah. So on a more local level, Charleston, Huntington, uh, I know that uh you've you've been involved in a lot of the uh different agencies around here. Tell us about some of those.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so after you know, the being the state director is a political job, and and Governor Moore was no longer governor, and there was a new governor, and so you know, I was ready to return to the community and and and and lo and behold, I went back to Shawnee Hills uh uh in 1989. Um but uh it it was great working for Dr. Barnett again, but uh you know I was ready to do other things and and the prostera job became available. And and so I in 1990 I became the executive director of Prostera Center, and that's a role that I had for 22 years. And the strange thing is that during that time period, Shawnee Hills went bankrupt. And because Pristura Center was strong and had a good reputation around the state, we were asked by uh the state leaders uh to take over Shawnee Hills in two in 2002, thereabouts, Shawnee Hills went bankrupt. And so Pristera served Huntington, it was really cabill, Wayne, Lincoln, and Mason counties. But then when Shawnee Hills went bankrupt, we were asked, Sean uh Pristura was asked to take over Cadal Putnam and Boone and Clay County. So uh so that was a big challenge to expand um mental health and addictions treatment uh services in an A County area for Prestera Center. So uh 22 years, you know, in a helm of that age. So was Prostera the uh first place you retired from? You had to bring that up. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you didn't, I was gonna add just for the record, how many times have you a customer USIR? It's still one hand or two hands now.
SPEAKER_03I really stop coming. Uh yes. And so I was from 1990 to 2012. I was 63 and basically, you know, ready to not run Prostera Center. Basically, I take whether people believe it or not, I take my responsibilities pretty serious. And Prostera Center when I left was 850 employees at over 50 locations. And I think really being on call, uh, because I asked to to know what was going on within the organization in eight counties, you know, I think it really wore me down. And I was ready at 63 to uh to uh try something different. Now, before you asked this question, what did I do afterwards? So I quit retired on Friday and then on Monday became the director of Harmony House. And that's another story.
SPEAKER_02So Yeah, right. And you were there for how many years?
SPEAKER_03Uh only three years, you know, in Harmony House. I'm the one that asked if I could be the director of Harmony House. And mainly I've been always a supporter of Harmony House from the beginning. And and I knew that they were really struggling, so I made a call to Betty Barrett while I was winding down Prostera Center and asked. And and she said, Bob, quit quit joking. You know, that's you know, that's a real funny, funny comment to make. But I asked if they would consider me to be director at Harmony House because they were struggling at that time. And and she and yeah, see, I was serious. So uh so I I did go to Pocahontas for the uh the a festival, you know, over the weekend, and so that was my retirement. I started at Harmony House right there after and spent three years there.
SPEAKER_02So at some point, your emphasis um still with the behavioral health, but uh it's from my point of view, anybody outside looking in, became more with those with the substance use disorder.
SPEAKER_03And the reason it it's another, you know, I think uh uh what I call a god thing is that why I was at Prostera Center, you know, we here in Huntington had the uh tragedy of the the youth that were killed on prom nine, and there were several local meetings about what we can do in Huntington. This is before the opioid uh epidemic, and I had a a strong relationship with uh House of Delegate member uh Don Perdue, who passed away last year, and uh and Don found the uh a program in Louisville called the Healing Place of Louisville. And so uh he brought them, several of their staff here to Huntington, and I was just enamored with a peer approach where people in recovery help people in recovery, and and really Don and I became partners in crime to to get a uh healing place in in Huntington, and and we were successful. And really, the first staff of the healing place of Huntington were Proster employees because Proster became the the physical agent. But we helped give birth to the a nonprofit called the Healing Place of Huntington and and helped with many other people the start of uh the healing place of Huntington, which is now Recovery Point, West Virginia. And and that became a passion of mine, really, from just having meetings and talking back in 2008, uh, you know, when it was just a dream and a hope to what Recovery Point is today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It seems to me that uh again from from limited uh uh exposure here, but it seems to me that uh it's been the most consistent um program uh recovery program that I have seen since I've been at the mission since twenty fifteen. So how do you see uh the uh um uh the needs of the area when when it relates to behavior health and uh addiction compared to when you started uh uh Prostera? How has it evolved? Uh what has changed? And then uh ultimately I'd like to know w how do you are we improving, are we losing the battle? I just be interested in your thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_03Well, there have been a lot of changes. Uh and uh one is I think the the use of drugs, the idea of polysubstance use and uh the the mixture of opioids like fentanyl with methamphetamine, uh you know, and then people with co-occurring disorders, people that have mental health problems that are also using drugs make it extremely challenging. Um but at the same time, if you look from the last 10 years in Huntington or in Cavill County, the number of services for people with substance use disorders is exploded. Um I've been working with a group that we call ourselves SUD Forum, where we're bringing agencies together and to educate each other about different things, but we have upwards of 40 different treatment agencies that are in Cavill County, be the recovery residents, outpatient programs, or inpatient treatment programs. And so I think the nature of our issues is continues to be ever challenging to help people. Uh we have workforce issues where finding qualified clinical staff to work with people is is is hard. Uh, but we also have a lot more resources available. One of my concerns is that we do we help people in in silos. And uh and people are complex, they have multiple needs, they have families, and and many of our clinical approaches or treatment approaches are focusing on the individual, and and and uh what is disappointing to me that I think we can do better is is by figuring out strategies to be more collaborative versus competitive. And and I think so there's a lot more things going on, a lot of great things, and people are getting help. But I think in a lot of ways, how we help people is very fragmented. And if you think about it from the point of view not of someone like Hansen who's looking at it as A global, a bigger point of view. But if you think about someone with needs today, be it housing, mental health needs, maybe they are addiction economic, you know, they are low income or no income, or if they have a job, it's a job not at a high level. You know, how do they navigate all the services and and put together the things they need? And it's I think it's pretty near possible. And so I I think that people are challenging to help, but at the same time, and we've had a lot of growth in services, but I'd like to see my personal opinion is better collaboration to help people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I got a question if you don't mind me jumping in here. Yeah, go ahead. I heard somebody say not long ago, you you don't blame the fire department for the structural fires around town, right? Very wise person. Oh, very wise person that said that and said right across my way. But I I have a question for you, Bob. You mentioned the an explosion of services to meet the increasing needs around here. What would you say to someone who would suggest that this increase in services is actually part of the problem, whether it's substance use, mental health, homelessness, or any other of these comprehensive elements that you're looking at?
SPEAKER_03I would say that one, it having really good data to answer that question is something that seems to be lacking. But two, I think historically, rural areas and then cities, cities always been a magnet for people in needs from our rural areas. I don't think it's any different today necessarily than it was 30 years ago, that if somebody uh became homeless or had a uh severe need and lived in rural Mingo County, that they may not end up coming to this area or to Charlton for for help. Uh so I don't I don't think that's the issue. I think people come to cities for opportunities and for access for care, and it's something that's been going on for hundreds of years. It is not a new phenomenon at all.
SPEAKER_02So the perception is uh that that it's gotten worse and worse. And and no doubt it's there there there are more people in the system than there were before. But do you do you think it's really gotten worse, or is it just that proportionately uh as the population grows, it has grown?
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell I think it's it's just it's a not it's a natural phenomenon, and and there are more services available in Huntington, and so there is an opportunity for someone in a rural and less services or lack of services in a rural community. So it's a natural phenomenon to come to Huntington. I'll just use Recovery Point as a great example, is we have people that come from all over the state of West Virginia for services to Recovery Point. Some of those individuals, when they graduate, find jobs, start their families or reunify their families and continue to live in Huntington. I don't see that as a negative thing at all. I see that as a positive because by and large they're becoming a taxpaying citizen. So I but I think uh wheeling has uh the same situation where uh people are going to Wheeling for services, Parkersburg, uh Charleston. I think it's a phenomenon of more urban and rural, and it's been going on a long time. And and so and it's true that more services are available in more urban type situations than in rural areas.
SPEAKER_02I think you make a good point, and that uh most people don't understand that it is a national problem. There's the nationally the pit count went from I want to say in 23, there was about 588,000 homeless people in America. Uh and then by the next year that had increased, I want to say by 40 percent or maybe even a little more. And I never did hear account for 2025, so I suspect that it wasn't better. So the question is, Bob, how do maybe homelessness in particular? So so what are the answers there? If you had uh if you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office and had the power of the executive order and money were no object, how would we solve this problem of homelessness?
SPEAKER_03Well, one is I'm not sure you you ever saw it because uh people, circumstances are such that you know it's a continuing, you know, situation. But again, it goes back to my observation of you know working in silos versus collaboration. We're lucky in this country today that there are communities that are being successful, reducing unhoused, the number of unhoused in their community, and and they have developed strategies that have been proven to work. So I guess from from my vantage point in Huntington, if we really learned how to collaborate and learned how these strategies in other communities are being successful, our job is to replicate that. And because I feel extremely optimistic. I uh I know we can do better than we are today. And I think we, and to me, the benchmark should be reducing homelessness in in the Huntington or in Cabillo County or the tri-state area. I think we can do that by working together. But it means that everybody, all the key players have to be on the same page. And just like the old analogy of rowing in a uh boat, we all have to be rowing in the same direction. And and I think we can be tremendously successful. Even under the restrictions or constrictions, we have funding-wise. So if we had a blank check, we there's no reason why we shouldn't be. But even under the tough times, I think we can do better uh by working together and being on the same page.
SPEAKER_02So we we hears lately, I hear, you know, one of the things early on, one of the things I learned about early on was the housing first philosophy. And of course, we're hearing some some talk about that, that that, you know, that we may that's not working, we're gonna eliminate that and move on to something else. What what are your thoughts about that?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think to the best of my knowledge, things like housing first and rapid rehousing have been proven and and studied uh and proven to be effective. So it it is troubling that we may move away from that concept. I think we probably need more of those re resources to do housing first, wraparound services for people in housing and and rapid rehousing is what we do need to do more of. But you know, the the the way things are going nationally, that may not be possible. Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02So so you know, even Jesus said the poor you will have with you always. So uh and and as you said, we ne we never fully solve this problem, if you want to call it that, of homelessness. So my question would be, what does success look like? What would it look like in we'll just take Huntington? Uh for you to say, okay, you know, we've made a real impact there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you Bob, you even connected us with some other neighborhoods who have reached functional zero homelessness. Like what would some of those strategies work here? What would it look like to be successful here?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, yes, I think that by learning from these other communities, of which there's a list of them, uh we can replicate, you know, what what they have done. And uh uh one uh the is using data, real-time data, you know, about uh people. And two is is being more transparent with what we're doing and what our successes are. But I'm a big proponent of strategic planning. And I think that if we had a cohesive plan that all the key stakeholders bought into that address things like reducing the number of unhoused people in our community by providing the supports they need to live successfully in their own apartment or home and everything. I think I I am confident that we can reduce the number of unhoused people in our community, and I think we should collectively take that on as a goal, regardless of the federal priorities of shifting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I think your point and well ago is well taken that uh the answer isn't always just more money, you know. So um Bob, if you am living in Huntington and I've lived here all my life and and certainly uh loved living here, this is home. But there is a the the stigma has gotten worse over the years, and I understand people see more people on the street that they as number one, assume are homeless, they may or may not be, uh, or assume are high on whatever. What do you wish the average member of the public in our area knew about homelessness and addiction?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that's a good question, and it stumps me even today as I think about it, because I've made I would consider unsuccessful attempts to try to help uh educate community groups, and it just it doesn't take hold. You know, people are firm in their opinions, and you know, it's it's really hard to to change that. I don't so I don't have a a silver bullet answer at all. And it kind of I'm kind of flumined about how to change things or help educate people, but I think one way that try to, you know, address that slowly is to talk about our successes, because there are successes, there are successes every day here at the City Mission, Harmony House, and other places, but also be transparent about what the issues are and what we collectively are doing to address the issues. I think the general public doesn't know, you know, and and sometimes when they don't know, they assume the worst. Right. And so I think continuing to educate people, even though it's frustrating and hard, uh we should never we should continue that, but also be honest about you know what we're doing to s to help people, you know, and that we're all working together. I kind of keep going to that that point. Several of us that have retired years and years ago took pride in working together. Uh one agency's problem became other agencies would help with the solution. I think we need to really work on trying to recapture some of the collaboration. Times have changed, yes. People have changed, yes, but I still feel uh that by working together you can achieve much more than than by working in isolation.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell Bob, in all of your years of uh dealing in these you know, of working with these issues, uh I'm sh I'm as you said, there are there are many success stories. Is there one in particular that you would like to share?
SPEAKER_03Well, uh yeah, I I I'd be happy to share, but I won't use a name. But you know, there's there's a gentleman who's at one time I I would think was considered probably the the most problematic homeless person in this community, and and really because of his stamina and his his strength and his belief in God and and other supports through Harmony House and other agencies, you know, he he lives independently, he had a great job and has been clean and sober for decades. But the most important thing is he's a dear personal friend. And so I have many stories like this of people who have been at the bottom, so to speak, and and have through the grace of God and uh are leading very productive lives and are contributing members to this community. And and to me, that's so exciting and heartwarming to have friends uh like that. And I appreciate those friendships very much.
SPEAKER_01Bob, you've uh you've worked at the street level um and at the higher levels and up upper management uh throughout your generations of of work. And I got a question for you. I I just wonder, uh, you know, from your perspective and your experience, there's often there often seems to be a disconnect between upper management and street level workers. What what would you attribute that to? Or how how could we um more successfully address that so that everyone's on the same page? You mentioned the collaboration, and even within agencies, I think it's important that everybody's on the same page, running in the same direction. So what would what would you say would be a good help to remove that disconnect between upper management and street level stack?
SPEAKER_03I think that that type of thing is always present within organizations and and whatever. And uh, I'm sure I'm guilty if I was in a higher level position of being disconnected with what's going on, boots on the ground, so to speak. But I think to me, uh regardless of what your position is, and I think you all at the mission do a great job with this, is that part of it is talking with spending time with people who are the service recipients, the the people living at the city mission, and b build and treating them as equals. Regardless of what our position is, uh, you know, we always got to remember that we're all God's children and and and we should relate to everybody the in the same way. And and it's easy to talk about that, but it's important to do that as as much as possible. And I'm sure I haven't done as good as I could, but I want to treat every person that I come in contact with with the same respect. I would uh treat um the governor, the mayor, the president of uh a corporation. Uh we're we're all on this earth, and we should be all treated the same way, in my opinion. And I know I've fallen short of that, but it's something I try to do.
SPEAKER_02Well, Bob, we certainly appreciate you spending some time with us today, and uh we uh uh value uh uh y your opinions and and even more so value uh you as a friend and very thankful for you. And you know, I was thinking there as we were talking about ideas of what we can do to change stigma and and all of that. We have a a a local uh shopkeeper who we have been sort of at odds with each other in the past. And I understand because um, you know, if I were trying to run a shop and things were happening, I I would be upset as well. But that changed one day when uh this person called me and said, Hey, tell me about our friend, and then named a person by name, a homeless person by name. And I was taken aback. I didn't know I was ready for a fight. And she was like, I've he's not well, and I'm trying to get him to the hospital. Would you would you talk to him? And then that happened again recently, same person, same um shopkeeper with another person last week. And it reminds me of so there's two things. One is when you get to know some of these folks uh uh by name and you know you recognize them when you see them and you start to see that yeah, they have problems. They're not much different really than than us. Uh so be mindful, certainly. Um don't don't give them the keys of your car or your credit card, meet someone, uh shake their hand, look them in the eye, learn their name, and it goes a long way. And the second thing, and as we close today, is it just reminded me, as Bob was saying, you know, we see uh success stories all over the place. So I just want to say if you are working in uh homeless services, whether you're working for the state or one of the agencies in town, or maybe you're just a part of a church that serves dinner on Thursdays or whatever it is, uh be encouraged. You never know the impact you may be having on someone. Be encouraged, keep it up. And when you're ready to quit, that's when you should double down because that's probably uh you know when you need to do it the most. But be encouraged. You're making a difference. And someday, I think when we stand before Heavenly Father, we'll be glad you kept doing what it is that you do. All right, folks. Well, thanks again, Bob. Thanks, Stephen, and uh we appreciate you all for listening. Thank you very much.