MWA Mandalorians With Attitude - The Mandalorian Seasons Review and Debate!

Odrogs in Hotpods | Episode 3: MWA Mandos with Attitude - The Mandolorian Seasons Review and Debate!

This is the Way! With The Mandalorian & Grogu film here, Odie and Rogue blast through all three seasons of The Mandalorian through Hyperspace Hottakes — from Din Djarin's quiet emotional arc and the power of Grogu's arrival, to Season 2's iconic Luke Skywalker hallway moment, and the big questions Season 3 left unanswered. Light side and dark side covered — yes, including Moff Gideon getting miffed.

Then it's time for the Echoota debate! Is Mandalorian Season 3 irrelevant to the main Mandalorian plot? Passionate Star Wars creator and 501st UK Garrison member Tiff Oben (@tiff.oben) goes head-to-head with bookworm, collector, and Starbucks Star Wars mug enthusiast Ali (@alderaan.baby) across three fiery rounds. Spoiler: it's closer than you'd think.

We close out with Honour the Ghor — your questions, your opinions, your say! We find this one ELECTRIFYING!

OdRog Culture says This is the Way! And May the Force be with you!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Oddrog Ultra presents Oddrogs in Hot Pods I'm Odie and I'm Rogue And together this is the Oddrogs in Hot Pods. Here we are, episode three of Oddrogs in Hot Pods. I am your host, Odie, and with me is my co-host. G'day everyone, Rogues here and ready to go. Today we are breaking it down. Mando season one, two, and three, all in 15 minutes. It's gonna be a tough one, once again. It's gonna be hard, but let's see how we go. We've also got our a two-to-debate in this episode where we welcome who do we welcome again? We welcome Alderan.baby and Tiff.oben for the debate. Is Mando 3 relevant to the main Mandalorian plot? We finally finish off with Honor the Gore, where we welcome you to have your say. We've got it three questions once again this episode. Without further ado, Rogue, please, hyperspace hot takes Mando, season one to season three. What do you think? I think for my first hyperspace hot take of today, I feel as though The Mandalorian as a series, it restored mystery to the Star Wars world. One of the smartest things that season one did was really scale Star Wars down and allowed us to really explore with Din Jaren as he explored and went from planet to planet and bounty to bounty. So that's my first hyperspace hot take. My second hyperspace hot take. Din Jaren's character arc, or was his character arc quietly one of the best character arcs of all Star Wars. You know, Din begins the series as a man imprisoned almost by the Creed. You know, the way defines his morality, his identity, his purpose. We're able to see the human elements start to reveal themselves under Din's character, where previously, you know, we weren't able to see that. Yeah, that's right. And also with Grogu joining us, or Baby Yoda as he was in season one, was that they parallel each other in bringing the best out of each other. And in along the way, we start to learn more about Grogu's background. And we but during season one, we see how the effect of the Separatist Droid Army has on Dinjarin. And you we get flashbacks of him as a child, which then is also mirrored in Grogu's Order 66 flashbacks, which is I think really great storytelling in in the comparison between these two characters. So I'd have to agree. Yeah, yeah, and and we do love, you know, we we love the Jedi Order and that era, and so I think that was a really smart bit of plot storytelling in taking us back to that period and that time because it helped us to associate and it helped us to connect the things that we love about the films. And Mando series did that so eloquently, it was almost seamless, but brilliant. It's joining the prequel fans and the original trilogy fans all in one, you know, and and I think that's what's really smart about that. Yeah, that was the power of the Mando series, without a doubt. My number three hyperspace hot take was, and I know this was one that was debated particularly early on, was that Grogu was much more than merchandise. And I say that because a lot of people initially dismiss Grogu as a cute marketing bait. Narratively, I think Grogu worked because he transforms Din emotionally. He kind of represents almost like that inner emotion that Din Din never allowed to come out. And Grogu represents that in a inner being. So I think Grogu becomes you know, Din's moral compass, his emotional vulnerability, his connection to hope after the Empire and after a really dark time. You know, Din almost became so structured and scheduled during that period as a means of survival. And so Grogu's almost like this emotional redemption arc for or or return for for Din. You know, the relationship mirrors it almost mirrors that classic samurai and Western storytelling. And I know we probably over over say that and over talk Western storytelling. His entrance is that Western though. You know, the doors slide open and there he is. It's it's it's the shutters. Oh, yeah. They played he's the space cowboy, but he's it's hugely inspired by Boba Fett. We we brought up if Spurs are still cool. Of course they are, because I think Westerns are cool and they'll forever be cool, you know, in honor of your boy like Big Jake and and all those, you know, the Clint Eastwood films as well. You know, we could list, we could list many, many, many uh Western films and of inspiration, the good, the bad, and the ugly, you know, the it's all there. And yeah, yeah, I I tend to agree with you. Yeah, and I think you know, for everyone who has that uncle or their fa or their you know, grandfather that just absolutely loved Westons back in the day, you know, what an opportunity to amalgamate their Western passion with Star Wars, with the Star Wars universe, right? And I think it appealed to those types as well. But to finish off point three, I think, you know, without Grogu, Din basically stays emotionally frozen forever. And you know, that'd be an interesting story in itself. But I think we were able to see some of that and what that looked like before Grogu came onto the scene in season one. My fourth hyperspace hot take for the light side was the show masterfully used Star Wars lore. So, you know, season two especially felt like a celebration of multiple eras of Star Wars. We had appearances from Bo Katan Krees, we had Ahsokatano, we had Boba Fett enter the fray, and that massive, so very exciting, probably one of the best scenes of all time, but Luke Skywalker entering entering into season two as well. It really just wanted to bring a whole universe together in one season, and I really, really, really enjoyed season two. We have just been blessed, everybody, with a Luke Skywalker hallway scene. And and it did not disappoint. Um and every time you re-watch it, watching how he crumbles that dark that dark dark trooper there, and just you know, you get you get chills, you know. Yeah, you get a window into the power that is Luke Skywalker, you know, and we never get to see that fully realized in the OT, obviously in the sequels as well. You know, we never we missed that. Bo Katan challenged his understanding of Mandalorian culture and really challenged that. And I really enjoyed her role in that in the series. It probably talks a little bit more about, you know, talking more about our experiences and our trauma and not and not and not burying them deep down. And my very last hyperspace hot take for the light side, season two finale became an instant Star Wars moment, and we touched on it briefly just just before. The arrival of Luke Skywalker in the rescue became one of the defining moments of modern Star Wars. For any fans that were hung up on Disney acquisition, maybe a bit of a letdown on some of the content, they got back on board in that moment, and it worked because Luke appeared as Hope Incarnate. It paid off Grogu's Jedi path and probably paved the way for exploring that in the following season. And Din removing his helmet for Grogu carried enormous emotional weight. For many fans, it felt like seeing the heroic Luke they'd imagined after Return of the Jedi, which we talked a bit about. We were craved and starved of that. So, I mean, it couldn't fail, really. It just really couldn't. So that was my last hyperspace hot take. Eddy, I'm keen to hear your lightside hot takes. You touched on a lot of great things. We talked about the entrance, the the western entrance of Mando. I can bring you in warm, I can bring you in cold. Come on, that western, let's go. And the inclusion of all the beasts and the creatures. I'm loving that, but also the deep implication from the from the clone wars gives it just settles into his psyche of probably what a few people in the galaxy were probably experiencing at the time is that dislike of droids, which also makes that connection to episode four when the bartender says, We don't serve your kind. You know, that hatred towards droids. It gives us it gives us an extra layer into the character, which I loved. I've got a list of characters that I loved. Hit us with it, start us off with Baby Yoda, and of course he didn't have a name for season one. Then we get then we get Palimoto, who's the mechanic and the owner of the docking bay on Tatooine. She is very fun and a great addition. I'm glad she came back for season two. Yeah, she's got a bit of a mother, motherly nana kind of rough around the house top five, doesn't she? I really like her. Absolutely. And the inclusion of Fennec Shand, you know, the sharpshooter. I loved her introduction. Also, I'm an Agents of Shield fan from way back, so Mingna Wen Wen is phenomenal. So I actually think that Mingna Wen, I like Mingna Wen more than I like Fennec Shand. So they she complimented the character. Yeah, I think so. I think having Mingna Wen in there as Fenex Shand was probably more to my thing of why I like Fennec Shand. Yeah. At times I found Fenex Shand actually kind of boring. Yeah, particularly in Book of Boba Fett, which I know again we're not talking about this this particular episode, but yeah, and I think they left that on a bit of a cliffhanger, didn't they? Where you weren't too sure who who it was. I think it was like a shot of We all knew. Come on. Well, did we? Yeah, I mean, initially we all hypothesized, we all theorised, didn't we? I think initially we were kind of like, Who is this? But then that's that's the beauty of it, isn't it? Those cliffhangers kept us enthralled and kept using there's yes, there's so many things where I'm like Leonardo DiCaprio from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, where he's like, Look at the thing, look at the thing, you know, through season one, season two, and season three. I get so excited. The the return of the darksaber, mobile carbonite freezing on the razor crest, incredible, cool, grief carga, come on, rest in peace, Carl Withers. Amazing, fun. Yeah, he played it. He has that balance of serious versus fun, you know, not too serious. He he's just that perfect balance and enjoyable that he's almost like us as the viewer, he's enjoying what he's doing. You can see he's having fun with it. And I love in the the final episode where he's like, Come on, little guy, do the magic hand thing, you know. Goku just looks at him puzzled. Can I just say, because I mentioned the motherly impact before, he had a very fatherly energy about him, and a very like he was he was watching over Manda. Yes, and that became ever apparent as as the seasons progressed. But I I thought I saw that correlation too. He had a he had a strong, like resilient, steadfast way about him. But yeah, that that joke, that joking element, that comedy element as well, which was really well done. Season two, Simply Cooks, Cobb Vanth from Aftermath trilogy, the introduction of Cobb Vanth, come on down, he is so cool. Well, we yeah, we get that entrance again. We talked about the influence of wet of Weston's yeah, um well, epitome of Weston, really, in Star Wars. The introduction of Ahsoka on the Swamp Planet Pure, like just absolutely brilliant. Got the two lightsabers, the sound of the lightsaber. Rosario Dawson was always fan cast before this thing, and there was a lot of fan theorizing and and encouragement and fan art to put Rosario Dawson in. So to have that answered was smooth. Yeah, what Tython. And if you're an old old Republic fan, you'll know all about Tython and the importance of it, and to have that drip. You know, last last two episodes I talk about the drip feeding of legends throughout, and this is the the coolest stuff that we're seeing in Star Wars now that it's so good to be a Star Wars fan. Boba Fett's episode, watching him just absolute annihilation of those stormtroopers with the Plastoid going everywhere with the gaffy stick. We see him, and then when he puts on that armour, and the the music in this series, uh it is re-invigorating and reigniting a Star Wars sound. Well, it's a space opera again, isn't it? And you saw that come to full fruition for this series. Yeah. Boba Fett, I loved seeing Tamura Morrison back, and he is phenomenal. He's a huge advocate for Star Wars. I love his energy, I love who he is. Bokatan. My gosh. Her entrance, uh the squad. Once again, we talk about the soundtrack, and finally we get to the uh gathering the squad. Season two doesn't miss, I'm sorry to say. Season three, even if it was just for that short moment, oh my gosh, give us Zeboralius. And I'm a fan of Battle Droids, so I enjoyed the episode that was probably also a filler of Bo Katan going to collect a crew, but it just made me chuckle with a droid's malfunction, and I've just put in my notes, great Scott! And of course, seeing Doc in Star Wars. So good. What a cameo. And I guess this is what Star Wars Mandalorian does, as you said before, connecting fans of Star Wars by acknowledging. Would you like to launch into your dark side hot takes? My dark side hot takes are shaped really around where the Mandalorian kind of lost a bit of momentum. So I thought when Grogu's return, I felt like undercut the emotional finale. And I know that that's a pretty popular criticism across the Star Wars fan base. But almost like Grogu came back too soon. I wanted to talk to you about this point, and I have written it down and I've written the question what is the sacrifice really worth? You know, the decision I think reflects one of Star Wars' oldest themes, which is attachment can destroy, but in here it shows that attachment can also save. And I think that's yeah, that was really that came across really strongly. Well, I've even put in here around that point is that you know, that that point of sacrifice and what's it really worth. You know, we speak about the Emperor returning in the Seagulls, and it kind of destroys Anakin's sacrifice in a way. We mentioned that last episode. If IG 11, for example, sacrifices himself to save everyone in season one, only to be brought back in season three, it cuts away that sacrifice. Mando sacrifices his beliefs for Grogu. You mentioned that, you know, he sacrifices Grogu for his own care and love because he knows that being with Luke Skywalker was the best thing for him. Only to renege that on both of those in season three and the book of Boba Fett would have meant and then I said, Yeah, you know, why why are we exploring this situation of having this such such great character development only to renege on these situations? So what what is the sacrifice work? Yeah, well that's it, and I think that that's really my first dark side hot take. Is like the emotional climax of season two was the separation, was Din letting go, was Grogu choosing growth, you know, sacrifice over attachment. Then the reunion happened really rapidly in the book of Boba Fett, which we keep coming back to just naturally. But I think it happened rapidly because they were trying to fill some storytelling there, I think. And I think it it happened too soon, you know. For casual viewers who skipped that series, season three almost felt like somehow Grogu's here, he's returned. You know, it's like, oh, okay, but what about all that growth and all that development and all that emotional journey we went on on season two? Yes. You know, all of a sudden he's back. So the emotional consequences never fully had time to breathe or hit home. Yes. And my second hyperspace hot take for the dark side was supporters loved the lore expansion, but critics felt that Din lost narration narrative ownership of his own show. There are stretches in season three, I think, where Din feels more like an observer, a bodyguard, a supporting player rather than the central protagonist. My third one was around the tone changed dramatically throughout the season throughout the series. My second last Dark Side Hot Take, the show became deeply interconnected. So initially the Mandalorian was accessible even to non-hardcore fans, which I think is part of its appeal for longtime fans. Absolutely awesome content, hugely rewarding. For casual audiences, it sometimes became a bit overwhelming, I think. Um very last one, Villain, sometimes felt underdeveloped. So Myth uh Myth Gideon. Moff Gideon starts Myth the comedian. This is Myth Gideon, he's also comedian in the Star Wars universe. Ah, very easily. Yeah, and he gets real miffed really quickly in scenes, and then he has makes a stand-up joke about it. Anyway, Moff Gideon starts as a genuinely intimidating villain. He's calculating, he's mysterious, he's an imperial fanatic. But by season three, you know, we have cloning plots sneaking in, we have armored commandos, which hey, the armored commandos are cool, don't get me wrong, but do they play a critical part? Yeah, they do play a critical part to be crushed by Luke Skywalker. Yes, that's why they're invented. So you can be crushed under the sheer sheer will and power of the force. Um, his final defeat also divided opinion because it arrived quickly after an extensive build-up. Is he really defeated? Potentially. I mean, no one's ever truly gone. Well only quite gone. Yeah. That we really needed to survive in some way, shape, or those Spider-Man fans, he's the Uncle Ben of Star Wars. He ain't ever coming back. Everyone else survives. It's the biggest travesty of the Star Wars universe. With great power, comes great responsibility. See, that would have saved Anakin. That would have saved him all his heartache, all his trauma, all his challenges that he went through. Just understanding that one line. So that wraps up my Dark Side Hot Takes. Odie, what do you got? Absolute fire. I agree with you a lot of things, and I'm sorry I interrupted you during your things, but I was just like similar, similar Dark Side Hot Takes. Look, season three, while I love the explorer of Mandalore lore, it was fun and episodic, but coming out of the glory of season two, I do think it was lacking a little bit, and you mentioned the tone shift, absolutely, especially with that Battle Droids episode where they go and see Lizzo's character and Jack Black's, and while that episode gave us the knighting of Sir Grogu himself, we don't really draw back to that. Maybe in the movie they will. But I think that I found a lot of the carrots that they dangled, A Knight of a Thousand Tears, the Darksaber ownership, Grogu's eventual turn with Luke Skywalker. I just feel like all the things that then were answered didn't get as good as a c comeuppance as what we would have hoped for. We were given the character the Darksaber Jewel where we could watch Dinjaron take on Bo Katan. I just think it's a it's almost a cop-out to have these two characters go one-on-one. What I what I would have hoped for, and here's my little theorizing thing that Star Wars fans do, was to see him have a fight and then eventually, like during the fight, almost get respect for each other or even possibly a romance going. Oh, we were all hanging out for that, weren't we? And we spoke a lot about it during the actual But here's my question to you. What's with what's with Din Grogu? Like, wouldn't it be Grogu Jaron? I don't understand. Yeah, well, is Din actually his sir his surname? Or is it a I know in some cultures the the surname comes first, right? Yeah, what so I get that, but it's Bogatan Crease. It's not Crease Bogatan. Yeah, but she's a different clan, isn't she? Well that's true. Like is it is it different for different clans? Well we've answered it, we've answered it here right now between a couple of clans. We have I hope there's a few fans listening in to ascertain that one. Project Necromancer, I love the mention of that. The introduction of the clones, little delivery of such a huge point. Yeah, I wanted those clones to kind of come out, you know? I wanted one of the clones to come out. And I guess they could still do that, because yeah, our our boy Miff, Miffo, Moff Gideon, he comes back like how I like to listen to Wu-Tang again and again. My final dark side hot take is the Darksaber is crushed, it's destroyed. But we spent so much time with it from season one through to season three, and I get the messaging, you don't need a tool or an item to be a leader. It doesn't that does that's not about what a leader is. It's not about what you have on you, on your person, it's about what you have inside your soul and how you are as a leader. I understand that. But that's not to say that that Darksaber has so much lore and history behind it, so to say it crushed, it was almost a little bit disheartening. Yeah, I agree. And it and it it almost undermined that that that law and that element to it. And I yeah, I agree. It was re it was really disheartening. It almost was almost minimalized in within the season, or it was minimalized, and it was reduced, the meaning of it was reduced significantly.

unknown 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

And the Mandalorian himself, like the the OG Mandalore, right? The Jedi who created the Dark Sai Sabre, the Jedi who took it back, and and you know, this the whole history between behind the Darksaber. Do you want a new Mandalorian Jedi to be like the ruler of Mandalore? I mean the little boy inside me and the absolute Jedi fanatic, yes, of course. Who are you shipping? Who are you putting in? Probably a new character, to be honest. Someone someone left the field. Yeah, because Well again, like are you are you saying that Grogu is gonna be? I think Grogu is he's the Yoda Mandalore, right? Coming in on that mythosaw baby, here he comes. I don't know, mate. Or that that Sabine. Yeah, I could get on board with Sabine, but again, then you're getting into like was the fact that Sabine became a Jedi a bit of a hoodwink of of the force and so no, I don't think so. I don't think Sabine. I think I think someone knew, and you know, like Grogu in a Mandalorian outfit, they still haven't really pulled that off yet. So I don't know whether Grogu is the answer either. And that's all that we have time for. Thank you, Rogue, for this hyperspace hot takes. We are gonna launch Into our next part now, the Achuta. I can't wait. I'm ready for it. I mean, we've been talking about it. Let's get into it. We welcome our guests into our Achuta. Rogue, you're going to introduce Tiff Oban. I will introduce Ali Alderon, baby, but let's hear it. What's our debate today? Mandalorian season three is irrelevant to the real Mandalorian plot. Arguing against this statement and very much pro season three for the Mando plot is Tiff Oban, a passionate Star Wars creator, a member of the 501st UK Garrison and the Sabre Guild. A huge fan of the Ghost Crew, especially Harrison Doula, who she recent occasionally cosplays as. Tiff brings deep love for both the classic and modern sides of the galaxy far, far away. She's also one of the strongest defenders of the Acolytes, still holding out hope for a season two, and can often be seen donning the terrifying helmet of the stranger. And with plans to catch the upcoming The Mandalorian Ingrogu on the UK's biggest IMAX screen, needless to say, Tiff Owen is the perfect guest for today's debate. Welcome, Tiff. Can you tell us three things about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Okay, so I was gonna say Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars, but then I thought that's not fair. So I'm gonna say cosplay, Instagram, and autism. To Star Wars Celebration in 2023 in London. And I just made a costume of an original character for that, but spent the whole weekend talking to people about their costumes and how they made it, and um came away absolutely obsessed. And since then, I've I'm I think I'm working on nine and ten of my costumes, and Betsy's got, I think, about six costumes, and I'm making her a tech at them a tech at the moment. 501st, and I'm making an Imperial Officer, and I've joined the Lightsaber Guild, and I'm a Sith Lord. So yeah, new obsession might link to the autism. Instagram, I know it's got a bad reputation, you know, no, social media generally. I absolutely love it because I connect with people all over the world, like you guys. I talk about Star Wars, I share Star Wars things, and I really enjoy Instagram. I've I sort of people I've met at cons, I then connect to Instagram, but people I meet on Instagram, I then meet at cons, and I think it's an amazing thing. And then autism, the way that it enabled you to deep dive into things like Star Wars, to connect things. I think it's given me a really good imagination.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Elderon dot baby, Instagram. You're a mad Star Wars fan, but you're also an avid reader. You read several books and you do book reviews, but you also do merchandise reviews. Uh, you have some amazing costumes, and I also love your interior design eye with all those photos in the background of your house. Would you like to say three things that make you who you are? Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Definitely a reader and a bookword. I love fashion. And I'm also a collector of lots of bits. Currently going through all the Starbucks Star Wars mugs, which have made me really happy at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Hold on, baby. We are ready to get things kick-started. For the positive for the Mandalorian season three is irrelevant to the main Mandalorian plot. Let's get ready to rumble. Take it away.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

So I feel like it has lost the original premise from what the Mandalorian was set out to be in seasons one and two as more of a space lesson. And it's sort of moved its way into being more for like the wider franchise and building on the politics of Mandalore. And that's sort of been a difficult thing, and it's made it kind of feel irrelevant to the best of the plot as a result of these sorts of changes as left Din and Gregory feeling like passengers in their own show. It's sort of disconnected from the emotional heart of it, and with Bogatan becoming sort of the small central art of the series, having the leadership storyline, encountering the mythic as well, and the central data saver conflict being really quickly resolved, and left this sort of feeling like a side becoming the main plot instead of the side plot. The large portions of the seasons focusing on the politics and Bogatan's leadership ambitions and new republic bureaucracy, whilst all interesting side plots, you sort of only loosely connect back to the original thing of Din and Grogu, which is sort of a difficult thing and it feels very irrelevant to what was sort of set out as the Mandalorian story.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

I'm still not sure what the original premise was of the, if it's not what happened in season three, you say that it was a space western, but that's more of a genre than a plot or a narrative arc. What would a space western be? I'm not even sure. And I think the politics of Mandalore was always about this. In season one, you you got a sort of understanding of how the creed worked and the secretive Mandalorian sect that we saw in season one. And then season two, Bo Katan comes in, and we get more about them stealing weapons from the Empire in order to, and ships in order to retake Mandalore and regroup. So I think that those those threads were always there and building. And you say that the Darksaber and the Mythosaur were quickly resolved, but I think they were just a taster of the future. I mean, it was a really exciting moment when we saw the mythosaur, and I I did expect more to happen from that, but you know, it it's it's about them all coming together, the Mandalorians coming together. And I think I heard John Favre say that the Mandalorian was no longer singular but plural. You say that Grogu and and Jinjarin, there were passengers in their own show, which is a really nice way of putting it. But, you know, he said that it was opening up, season three was opening up to the Mandalorian's plurals. That's what the real Mandalorian plot is, because for me, season three had elements of every plot I've been following from season one. That's based western. There is the derivative and formulaic wandering do-gooder on the run, going town to town, helping people, while staying out of the clutches of Mock Gideon. You know, that happens all the way through. But most importantly for me, there's the cloning plot that runs across the series and other Star Wars. You know, we see it in the uh Darth Plagueis novel. We we hear it in the New Hope when Kenobi in his passing mention of the Clone Wars. There's the Kaminoan cloning that's integral to Sidious's plot to destroy the Jedi and Project Necromancer in the Bad Batch, you know, it's appearing throughout Star Wars. And in season three, we get more of that of the Mandalorian with Gideon's attempt to create four sensitive clones of himself. And I feel that if the clone wars was the thing that made the prequels work, this narrative art, essential to season three in Mandalorian from the start, and Star Wars in lots of media, is the thing that will make the sequels work. It's pose somehow that enabled Palpatine to return. So I do think the clone bottle control is important.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

He's feeling repetitive at this point. I know it's building up, and what it is going to build up to sort of really difficult if you're jumping in and out of it. It just sort of requires you knowing all the media to understand in pinpoints, which can be great if you're a super fan. It's harder when you're more of a casual fan to actually connect all these threads.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Finished on round one. It's it's nice to get a little bit warmed up. Rogue, what are your thoughts around round one? Really good delivery of points. It's pretty tight, strong rebuttals in that first round. Hold on, baby. Are you ready to kick start us off into round two?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

So I think also throughout this, sort of the character arcs have felt like they've stalled a little bit or regressed. So we've had Grogu returning to Dune, not in that series, in the book of Overfet, which was such an exciting moment. But sort of then sort of lessened the impact of the end of season two that that happened in different media and immediately after, whereas if it had built a left at the end of season three, it would have sort of done something more, whereas it's kind of just a reset the status quo of the characters, including even within removing his helmet at the end of season two, emotional, impactful. Then we get to season three, you have a couple of episodes and it's sort of restored again, which is great, but has left it sort of feeling less important in a way.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

It does require, I don't think Mandalorian does require you to have knowledge of all media. You know, I I think what the makers of Star Wars are really good at is making things work for new viewers, but also for those viewers who've who have seen everything, you know, they can also watch it and add all their knowledge, and it is a personal viewing sort of experience, as well as much deeper viewing experience for those that know other things, but I don't think it's necessary. I think you can go fresh into all of the stuff they've been making without any other knowledge. And with the reason for I don't think the character arcs have stalled either because we see Grogu rescue Din on from Mandalor from that creature that seems to be extracting his body fat. I don't know what it was he was sucking out of him, and uh Din goes off. He's obviously learned some um navigation and finds his way to Bogatan and brings her, and then she rescues him and obviously gets the dark saber back later on because of that. So I think that I think that we see a sort of quite strong development and character development in with especially Grogu, who's basically just been a useless baby, well, not completely useless, but a baby sort of until this point. But here he is independently going off and and coming back and saving Din. So and then with regards to Din, we sort of his character art, we do see more of him and his his belief in in the creed, and you know, he's going out of his way to a dangerous place to, you know, be able to go join the sect again by bathing in the living waters. So I think that also adds to his character. You know, he's a firm believer, and he isn't just gonna go, oh well, I've taken my helmet off now. Oh well, I'll just be like Vokatan. The other plot I've been excited and following since season one is the resurgence of the empire during the time of the New Republic. The new governing body of the galaxy is tied down by bureaucracy and doing the humanitarian thing, and we see this in season three, and I love the way that they're treating the ex-imperials. Where is the where is the strength and focus? But yeah, where but as in terms of this humanitarian uh perspective, where's their strength and focus that will help them gather and fight back when the Empire does come back and get them? It's the Mandalorians reunified under Bocan returning to the home world, finding opportunities to legitimise their return in the rulers of Plaza 15 in that cheesy cameo laden episode with Lizzo and Jack Black. And season three revealed more of Mandalorian culture, like the Creed ritual and the combat training. And as I said earlier, I was really excited when both saw the Mythosaurus in the Living Waters with Nita Sandari. You know, it's the sign that she'll unite her people, it's what she's been fighting for since her first appearance in the series. And season three deepens this plot, it establishes the potential for Mandalorians to become a powerful force in the Empire, and I hope that the movie continues this.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

I guess I can understand where you know it is building. It's been great to see this and see sort of the resurgence of the Empire and to understand what's happening in the background, but it's hard to say where it's going. It feels currently a bit disconnected.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

We end round two. There was certainly some huge points in that round. Yeah, look, I think uh Hunter on Baby said some really great things. Tiff fired back there, discipline. It's gonna be a big round three. I'm really looking forward to it. Lightsabers are swinging. I think with with Tiff being a member of the Sabre Guild, this could be an unfair advantage if lightsabers are out swinging. Hotoran Baby's got some pretty epic force powers though, so look out Tiff. Alderan Baby, we are ready when you are.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

So I think it's just been the entire season had some weak contributions to previous plot points. I think I said, well, I built on it before from Din's Helmet, the dark saber being resolved what felt really quick. And I think that may more be a writing thing than an actual series thing. And I think it is just it needed more episodes, it needed more breathing room for the story in a way. No, I think, yeah, everything is just it was resolved by two episodes. Everything is moving too quickly, it's not given any breathing room. And it's also become very difficult. I'll be honest, I'd forgotten what had happened at the end of season three, re-watching this. I was really excited for the film, but yeah, I could not recall most of the plot points until my rewatch. And it sort of lost its impact for me. It just felt very repetitive.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

I I when I first watched it, when it first came out, I was a bit like, oh, I don't know about yeah, maybe that wasn't as good. But then I watched all three seasons together and it made total sense. And it's those those in-depth character narrative arcs, the one about the cloning, it's becoming more and more serious, more and more dangerous. You know, by season three, Moff Gideon has created these small army of self-clones that are potentially force sensitive. You know, he might he what the they're trying to do in the Bad Batch is maintain that M count and force sensitivity, and it and Moff Gideon seemed to suggest that that had happened. So I that's been running all the way through, completely relevant from season one, Moff Gideon going after Groby. So Dr. Pershing can experiment with his blood, and he's managed to do something with that blood by season three. Totally relevant. And then I end again with the the Mandalorian culture. We get elements of it in season one, and it's building over the three seasons, and by season three, that army is unified and ready. The Mandalorians are gonna retake their planet, they're gonna get representation in the in this in the new republic, and that story has run all the way through. So my argument is that it's completely relevant, not boring at all, and you know, I I'm really excited and really hope that they continue both of these these story arcs in in the film, if not in in future seasons.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Ali, is there anything you'd like to fire back from that point?

SPEAKER_03 37:44

No, actually.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

It's a tough debate to to argue against it. And Ali, from my understanding, you're not a firm believer of of this debate in terms of you did think that Mando season three was relevant, yes?

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yeah. That's so hard to argue about something that you agree with, and I think that should be known as well. This debate really became a clash between world building importance and narrative necessity. I think it's something crucial because it expands the galaxy or because it directly strengthens the core story. So I think that's where our competitors today found their strongest moments. Really, really tough debate, really to hard to argue against the importance of Mandalore in season three in the storyline. I really liked Otteran Baby's points around, you know, it's different when you're a super van fan versus a casual fan. As a new person can often feel overwhelming because there is so many aspects, so many elements, so many characters, so many variants. What's going to happen in season three? And it was resolved as stated after a couple of episodes, and it was sort of like, okay, we waited around for that cliffhanger for what? Sorry. And so I thought that was a really strong point. But equally, I really like Tiff's response in that season three opened up more about Mandalorian culture, about Creed ritual, the references there to Project Necromancer, the Mandalore's cultural rebirth. I thought were really, really strong points. I thought Alderon Baby ended the overall argument with just reiterating some of the existing points. Didn't score as as highly in round three, um, because there are a few things there that were mentioned in previous rounds. And then I thought in in response, Tiff came through really, really strongly round three. And for me, Tiff steamrolled ahead. Tiff has taken the win out today, as far as I'm concerned, Odie. Tiff, your rebuttals were so strong ever throughout round one, two, and three. The the part where you talked about how you don't think that it requires the character arcs to meet, and especially considering that those character arcs could continue in the future and that you're hoping that they do, absolutely. I think the carrot dangling of what they're doing is really, really strong. The way that the season three losses impact, Ali, you're really, really onto it. So if you came back and you s and you agreed, you agreed to that point and you said, you know, this is the point where, yeah, all right, I see where you're going. But then you double back and you said, but if you watch it as a collected space, which as a Star Wars fan, I'm a prequels guy, so I watch it one, two, three, four, five, six, right? If we're talking those classics, now and you mentioning watching it seasons one, two, and three, you've got to look at the story. Project Necromancer connection there was came out really strong. We got to mark you on three things, and that's Star Wars law, that's delivery of points and your clear evidence. And today, a strong 41 out of 45, and then to a 35 out of 45 goes to Ali with the with a 41 out of 45 to Tiff for me. So, Tiff, you have taken Tiff Oban, you've taken this one home. Congratulations, Ali. What are your thoughts? And and well done on such a difficult task ahead of you.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Congratulations to definitely. It was a hard argument, especially if you don't believe in it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Tiff, would you like to share some thoughts on today's debate? Well done.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Thank you. I'm just delighted. It's so important to me to win every Star Wars sort of competition quiz.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Tiff, that floor was a dangerous space to be on.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

I instantly wrote an 11-page con. And then tried to read it and realized that it took more than two minutes. So I had to then extract the real basic.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

I love that commitment.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I go to cons and win quizzes, and uh yeah, it's yeah, I'm really, really pleased. I'd have been and I really want that shirt. Quite stressed before, but yeah. And uh, I was also wondering, um, can I get get your Quinlan Voss and a Sarge t-shirt if I send you some money over for it? Could you pop could you you I pop how would I do that?

SPEAKER_02 41:52

I can send you through a Quinlan Voss and a Sage shirt for sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

I was looking at your uh your merch and stuff, and I was like, oh my god, I love that t-shirt.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Yeah. Uh look, Tiff, thank you so much. Everything that you buy on the shop goes back into the podcast and supporting it. Then what we do is you can easily go on our Shopify account, buy the shirt, and the proceeds go to that. You can also help us out by sending us an email, or you can send us a DM on our Instagram, oddrog underscoreculture, or email odrog.culture at gmail.com. Thank you so much to Alderon.baby for joining us today. Thank you so much for TIFF.oban for joining us today. Of course, you can find them both on Instagram if you want to reach out to them or give them a follow along. It's been such a big debate today, and thank you so much once again to our contestants. If you disagreed with our decision, you can go on our polls and you can vote. That post will post up on the Monday after the podcast is released. But now over to Honor the Gore. Get into it. Honor the Gore. And ladies and gentlemen, Honor the Gore, here we are. Rogue, we've got two questions. We've got one question. Who was it from? At Bumblebee153 on Instagram. Hody. If you and I had force powers, what would we choose and why? I'll go first. Come on. It's quite an easy one. I would go Dark Side Lightning straight up. But then if I was on the light side, I think I would have to go with the simple Jedi Mind Trick. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Why is that? Tell us why. Why do they appealing for you? Dark side lightning looks sick. And it's a good way to let a good way to let your out. Pain and suffering, we're all about it. When I first saw Return of the Jedi, it was cool. And then of course, uh the Jedi Mind Trick, once again, the first kind of force power we see. I enjoyed that mysticism when I first saw it, so I would have to go the Jedi Mind trick. I think it's underrated. Well, how about you? Animal communication, because that's basically the ultimate zookeeper superpower, I reckon. Aligns well with what I do in my own life. But the colleges in me says force psychometry or force sense. You know, imagine walking through a landscape and instantly understanding the ecosystem around you. Although I must admit, Plokoon's electric judgment still looks ridiculously cool. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted for that one. That is fair. I thought that's what you were going to go for. Good from for Bumblebee, do you think? Bumblebee will love it. I think so. Well, Bumblebee, let us know what you think. And please reach out to us. Email us at oddrog.culture at gmail.com or you can DM us on our Instagram, which is Rogue. Oddrog underscore culture. Last question, because we're running out of time, but here we are. We've got enough to fit one more in. It's from BT from Warnable in Australia. Who had the best entrance? Was it Ahsoka? Season two, Mando, or Luke Skywalker, season two, Mando. Rogue. Take it away. What are your thoughts? Well, if we're talking pure emotional shock value, it's gotta be Luke. It's gotta be Luke. It's the slow build-up with the single X-Wing arriving, security cameras showing his hooded figure, cutting through those dark troopers, the green lightsaber reveal. People genuinely lost their minds. It was crazy. I must admit. I mean, we've spoken about it a lot in this episode. We've spoken about that entrance of Luke Skywalker and and how we both felt was just astonishing. Like we were both gobsmacked. Yeah. But you know, if we're talking character entrance, I think Ahsoka has an argument. Her arrival felt almost mythical, I thought. You know, you've got the mist, the forest, the white lightsabers igniting through the trees, and suddenly she appears almost like a legend coming to life. So it's it's a tough one, but I'm gonna lock in Luke for me. Yeah, and I think that's really fair. I would also lock in Luke, however, closely followed by Ahsoka. I am a huge Ahsoka fan. I do really enjoy watching her on screen. Hey, we had forced conversations on here last week. It was an amazing episode. We really enjoyed talking the original trilogy with those guys and talking Star Wars beyond the mic. And we've continued to talk to them, and we have an opportunity to share our thoughts around the new Mandalorian and Grogu movie. It's going to be reviewed on Sunday this weekend on the 23rd of May. Their post podcast will be up and you can check us out on their podcast at Forced Conversations. Check it out on Spotify. Check it out on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your your pods. Very dangerous. Malastare. The pod racing on Malastare. Very dangerous. Tatooine, the Boonta Eve. Yes, you must have Jedi Reflexes to check those guys out. So it's going to be happening. Forced conversations. Head over and check us out there if you enjoy our podcast. They're also really fantastic people. Amazing work that they do. And definitely check it out. What a journey through the Mandalorian. We kick things off with our hyperspace hot takes, looking at the triumphs, the twists, and some of the more divisive turns across Dinjar and story. Then we headed into a Tudor where Tiff Oban and Alderon baby Ellie brought two passionate and very different perspectives to the debate over whether Mando season three is truly crucial to the wider story. Different viewpoints and great arguments in exactly what these discussions are all about. And finally, we wrap things up with Honor the Gore, diving into your fan questions and tackling everything from force powers to one of the toughest Mandalorian questions yet. Luca Ahsoka with the better entrance. But I just wanted to say, Odie, thanks for joining us for this episode of Oddrogs in Hot Pods once again. And you can find us on our Instagram handle at oddrog underscoreculture or email us at oddrog.culture at gmail.com. It was a fun episode, and I'm really glad that we had the people that we had on, and I'm really glad that we could share this with everybody who listens to our podcast. Please reach out as Rogue said. But in the meantime, may the force be with you, everyone. May the force be with you.