Stan Wars: Fan films are Better than Disney?

Hyperspace Hottake is changing lanes! Odie and Rogue invite Directors, Actors, Writers and more on this episode. We invite Rei Kennex from the fan films Secura and Fulcrum (Link Below to watch NOW) and Backyard Tripod Films Actors and Director, Tanner McNatt and Lachlan McClain to discuss their films Voyage of the Crusader and Secrets of the Temple. (Link below to watch NOW). You can support them through their PayPal or reach out to them online. 

ODIE VS ROGUE - The hosts show their debating skills in our FINAL EPISODE

Are Fan Films truly better than Disney content? Join Eevee (@Eeveebluee on Instagram and TikTok) and Peter from Fan Film Empire (@fanfilmempire and www.fanfilmempire.com) as they adjudicate Odie and Rogue battling it out! Listen to find out the victor in this final episode of Echoota!

Please support all people on our podcasts, they are truly amazing and you can find out more from the links below!

Rei Kennex Films:

SECURA - A Star Wars Fan Film

'FULCRUM' Ahsoka Star Wars trailer-fan film

Rei Kennex and Foundation:

http://paypal.me/reikennex

https://www.instagram.com/dogs_cats_needhelp?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D

Backyard Tripod Films (Lachlan McClain and Tanner McNatt)

Voyage of the Crusader | A Star Wars Fan Film

Secrets of the Temple | The Award-Winning Star Wars Fan Film

Backyard Tripod Films GoFundMe:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/Backyard-Tripod-Films-next-production

ODROGCULTURE 10% off code for JWSabers - The only stockist for TXQ and an All-Australian Company!

A lightsaber for all the events and all the budgets - is there anything they haven't already thought of? 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Oddrog Pulture presents Oddrog's In Hop Pods. I'm Odie and I'm Rogue. And together, this is the Oddrogs In Hop Pods. Here we are, the ultimate episode. You cannot believe it. I cannot believe it. I'm here with Rogue. I can't believe it. Oh, isn't it amazing that we're just surrounded by such amazing, such talented, beautiful, brilliant, talented Star Wars fans. We've we've launched into this podcast with little to expect of what we were to unfurl. But here's the day that we really cover off everything and kind of presented with a special Odd Rogs in Hot Pods take, I would say. And Rogue, you've got to be a little bit excited because we're not doing Honor the Gore. Instead, we're going to do a new episode next week talking about season two. But why else are you excited?

SPEAKER_05 0:51

I'm excited because we've got some very special guests on this today who are writers, actors, filmmakers, and just like you said, Odie, all around talented people.

SPEAKER_06 1:00

Laughler McLean, Tana McNatt from The Secrets of the Temple and Voyage of the Crusader, alongside the actor, writer, and director here with us from the fan-made film Secura. Please welcome Ray Connects.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I'm originally from Kiev, Ukraine, and I've lived in the States for the last almost 10 years now. I moved here to start my creative career because before that I had a very different line of work. I used to be in international relations. So very academic, very teddy, very serious. But I was always involved in something creative and music and um advertisement later on. So I finally made the decision to move here after I won a big competition back in Ukraine that was actually filmed in LA. So that gave me some confidence that this could actually be a career. And uh I moved here by just by myself and started to work my way towards what I wanted to do. So I'm still here, still working. And dreams change, plans change, but now I'm mostly involved in filmmaking because I realized that I'm a storyteller and music was not enough for me. So I went to school for filmmaking, uh, for acting, and now it's my favorite passion uh when it comes to creativity. I also do cosplay. Cosplay is just my my fun creative outlet, the stress-free acting, like I call it. So I do a lot of that. And my other big passion is this it's animal rescue and animal rights and anything that helps animals. So I do a lot of volunteering and fundraising. If you follow me on Instagram, you'll see I do stuff all the time, like auctions and all kinds of fundraisers, like I said, and um helping animals.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

I'm Lachlan McLean. I'm the writer, director, and producer for the two fan films, Don the Clone Wars and Boys of the Crusader. We've actually done a total of five of them, uh five different fan films, and we have three more shorts that are gonna be shooting this fall. So, like little spin-off stories. So we're excited to hop onto that. I've been filming since I was seven years old.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

I'm Tanner McNatt. I play ALIC in the films. I've been involved in acting pretty much my whole life as well. I started performing around middle school and then just fell in love with it since then and have been in musicals and film productions ever since. Right now I do software engineering, so I I code for a company.

SPEAKER_06 3:21

Yeah, great. Ray Connects, you're an actress, you're a writer, you're a director. But Rogue, you've got a bit of a question.

SPEAKER_05 3:26

It's so good to have you on the show today. Can you tell us more about your film?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Sakura is a five-minute short film. It's a Star Wars fan film. So I came up with that idea a few years ago to shed more light on a character that is known, but not as in-depth. So I just love characters that are very interesting. There's a lot of lore to them, but it's mostly not known to regular fan base. So Ala Sakura was one of them, and I already had the costume. I was working on the costume, and I thought, hey, well, if I'm already doing this, why don't we shoot a little story about her that will help people know more about her? And I started bouncing ideas around, and uh I came up with this concept of what if, like the idea of forced vision. So I decided to use that forced vision concept in this short film and use order 66 for it because it's the moment that everyone knows about Ala Secura. And so I thought, okay, how can we make the Order 66 the central theme of it, but build more information, more uh more story to her around it. And so that was the story that she foresees her future, what happens to her during Order 66 on Fallution decided decides to change it. And we've planted so many Easter eggs in that five little short film, five-minute little short film. I dug into comic books and to some lore, and there's some quotes in there from the comics as well, and some information about Twileks that not everyone knows. Like they carry their memories and their lack of the generations before them. So if you watch the five minutes, you're like, whoa, what is all this? So I wanted to make this film because I really love Ail. I think she's fascinating and so different. She is a Jedi like no one else. She's she's one of our kind. And I wanted people to know more about her and love her more like I do. And so that was the idea.

SPEAKER_05 5:19

I can clearly hear your love for Star Wars. And after seeing your fan-made film, Secura, I mean it really speaks for itself. So I'm really interested to hear how your passion for Star Wars began.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Interesting. I um I watched the prequels first on my prequel baby, and I always liked it since I watched it, but I never was like a huge nerd about it until I came to Los Angeles and I watched uh The Force Awakens. Uh and I don't know, I just was like childhood returning, and I felt the magic and then the surge of inspiration. And that I think skyrocketed my renewed passion for Star Wars. It was it was that film and uh the music and uh new characters, new places. So and I really that same year I really got into the community because I started cosplaying. Um Ray was my first cosplay. And through that, I made I met a lot of people in the community and they were so great and so welcoming, and I made so many friends, and that was an extra boost, you know. So it didn't go away, it was just supported more and more and more as uh the years went by. So that was that was the the big launch.

SPEAKER_06 6:30

Yeah, well, it would have been amazing. But why Ayla specifically? Like, why did you choose her?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Ayla, well, she is complex and she is not what you think she is, which I really like about her. It it's she's uh you know, she's always portrayed, she's always been portrayed as this attractive Twilek and very strong warrior. But if you think about it, she's walking this fine line of almost not being a Jedi because she does a lot of things that borderline Jedi rules. She has this thing going on with Kit Fisto, which is against Jedi rules, but very much in line with the Twilight rules. And that's why one more thing I wanted to show her relationship with Blah in the film because a lot of people ship them. I don't ship them, I think they were really close professional relationship, caring about each other. And there was a bond, but there was nothing romantic between them because Ayla had her you know feelings for kid. And yeah, so she did that, and then her, even if you look at her, like she doesn't wear a robe, she's just sounds like a twilight. She accepts part of her, which if you read the comics, which you did. Uh, she was taught by Quinlan Voss to embrace her twilight-ness and make it her strength as a Jedi. So all of that emotions that all of those emotions that she has, the memories that she carries, the sensitivity that she has. He told her to embrace this because that will make her a better Jedi. And versus trying to restrain herself or restrict herself. And that was such a fresh and rebellious take on the whole Jedi thing. So I love that about her. She's also non no nonsense, she's a very good leader, but she's also very feminine. So she's not like a guy who does the same thing. She she's she's very feminine in her commanding ways and how she behaves. So I just was fascinated by that that uniqueness of her.

SPEAKER_06 8:35

And she is so unique, and I guess uh another character who's really unique is Alec. Tanner plays Alec in Voyager the Crusader. Tanner, is there a location you particularly like?

SPEAKER_01 8:42

It's gotta be Outpost X. Like it was such an unreal location. They they built Star Wars little houses for Airbnb, is basically what it is. And so it added just so much value, I think, to the to the project. Where it's not we're just like outside in a space. We've got this building. There's a shot with me and Summer were sitting outside the the house, and it's just it's a Star Wars house. So from the outside perspective, it looks like we just built the Star Wars house. Um we were able to like find this location. So a lot of the really cool sets we use those spaces, um, and then some of the others we built ourselves, and so just the combination of all of that really enhanced the film, I think. But yeah, Outpost 6 was really cool.

SPEAKER_06 9:27

Well, also I did some prop work myself back in back in the day in backstage in theater and did some prop work. But the next question kind of stems from that there's so much that really goes into costume and prop work. But what's a prop that or costume that you guys uh wanted to keep, or what happened to those props and costumes uh post-production?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

I have all of m my own costumes, obviously, my own props that I get, those are mine. But uh the other costumes, the guys that played uh clone troopers, it's their own costume. So they went back with them, and there was nothing that went anywhere else, I think. But what I I think if you speak about my favorite, I really like Ayla's apron. I know it's an unusual choice, maybe, but it's handmade and it's crafted in every little detail, all of the um little scales that she has. If you look at it close, you'll see all the all the work on it, and I love it. And also her lack, because I brushed the spots, and you don't see them when you're far away, but when you're close and did the gradient on them, so they look like they're really there. I love painted them. I'm real skin. So yeah, that that was that was a lot. So, but Ail, you know, it's it's not a big film, so that was not a lot in it. But everyone notices the clones armor, how good the weathering was and how how good it looked. So I I I just like I just like them. The clones are cool.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Probably the costumes mostly is what I what I like a lot. I mean, Django Fett, you know, the one in Don the Clone Words was my own costume that I put money in. And so that one I that one's like my baby. Like that one I really, really like, and like wearing it and even have like the helmet on display in the room. So I'd probably say it's actually Django Fett. Yeah. The pot the pot. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. No, there's this one pot I found at a thrift store, and I was so set on getting a static shot of it, you know, because I really liked it. It was a fun find. And now it's just kind of become like an inside joke. It's like, don't forget Loch Lang's pot, you know. And now I just kind of like try to throw it in each film if I can. I mean, it was at debut. I would say it's debut was secrets of the temple, and we brought it back in Voyage.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

But it has no point to like the plot at all, but it's just there's like a shot that it like focuses on the pot, and we're just like, eh. That's a joke. But the one I loved just my lightsabers because it made me feel like I was a real Jedi. Just anytime my characters just got either the lightsaber just on his hilt or like fighting scenes. That was the thing that really turned me from just a guy to a Jedi. Was this this lightsaber that didn't look like anything while we were filming because it was just a hilt, but in post-production it had all the specs and everything, and so it looked really cool. But Yeah. And then In Voyage of the Crusader, I have like six different lightsabers that I use because of all the flashback scenes and everything. So it it was a lot of fun to have all a bunch of different lightsabers.

SPEAKER_06 12:28

Absolutely. It looked fun. But it kind of leads into the next question, which was lightsaber colours are always best suited to the personality of a character. And Alec goes on such progressions, and the lightsabers match that. In your own understanding, what color best suits Alec?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Well, when he was a Sith, it was red. Um but I think in the in the present timeline where he's at now, I would say blue. He kind of adopts Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber, and I feel like that sort of plays into his his personality, his role. Um, and I s I think that's a fitting color for for Alec is a blue lightsaber, just a yeah, classic standard.

SPEAKER_06 13:55

Yeah. Being a creative person, can see you being stuck in your mind over particular processes which I experienced creating the podcast. What were some defining moments for you during the filmmaking that made you think, you know what, this is it. This is where exactly where I want to be, and I'm gonna see this filming through.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I think well for this project, since it was a one-day shoot, and one of the first moments is when everyone came together and we were met at the location, and the guys were there who played the clones, and I knew I had the voice actors there and the little crew, we had I think four people, four or five people helping on set, and that was so rewarding and so inspiring knowing that my vision brought these people, very, very talented people, together and they believe in it and I want they want to help make it happen. I think this was one of the things. And then equally in the end of the day, when you're already done the work and you are pleased with the results, and everyone did such a good job, and it's like a the feeling of just happy peace that you you've you've done what you wanted to do, and you you're kind of making your own dream come true in a way, because you had this idea, now it's done, and everyone is also so elated, you know, that feeling after it's done, and everyone's like, Hey, we did it. So for me, that's that's probably the and obviously the the whole process it's challenging, but there are very cool moments when you just lose yourself in the story and you're no longer thinking, oh me's acting, Greg, whatever. You're you're just the character, and you live the story as that character, and that's also the coolest feeling ever.

SPEAKER_06 15:29

Yeah, and part of living that story sometimes can have a toll, I guess, as an actor. But my question to you is, Tana, would you film some really intense scenes over Voyager the Crusader? Did that have an effect on your personal life, or are you able to separate that quite well because of your acting skills?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me personally, I've I've been acting for such a long time. I've I've gotten to a point where I'm I would say I'm good at separating sort of real life and performance.

unknown 15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And so there's there's a lot of scenes in the movie where it is very full of emotion. And sometimes after cut, I I do need to sort of like wind down, I guess is the word or something like that. But it's not not only like a few seconds. Like we call cut, and I'm like, all right, let me like recenter myself because I was just crying or screaming a second ago. That emotion was like there and real for a second, but after maybe 30 seconds, I'm like, okay, we can joke around again. So in my mind, I'm I've got this way to I'm able to separate very distinctly between the two. And so my performance and the character that I embody doesn't sneak into my real life at all.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Yeah, wow, it's such an important skill. And Ray, what about for you?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Well, doing lightsaber choreography in heels on the stony terrain was the hardest thing, probably with her. Because one thing when you're in your sneakers in the gym, and another thing when you're in the whole costume with uh headpiece and everything. And as as just the portrayal, the the inner portrayal, I think I always pick the characters that I relate to more or less. So for her, it's just this confident rebelliousness, I guess. And you know how she's finding the stillness within herself so she can hear clearly the force and herself and everything. I relate to that too because of being a ADHD person, you know, my mind is a constant chaos and the stillness, like just find the clearness. It was so so helpful in a way. So I learned that thing from her. And what was hard, I think, to balance that strength and that elegance in a one. Because with Ahsoka, it's the same thing. When I play Ahsoka, uh, it's also strength and elegance, but for some reason Ahsoka is just effortless. But Ayla, she has the swagger in the same way as uh, she's not hiding. Like she's this is who I am, this is what I am, this is this crop top and everything. It's it's it's so much confidence, but also strength. So finding, I guess for her, it was more physicality, was more challenging than the inner world. The physicality of like, okay, I'm I need to do this and look like I've been doing this my whole life and make it look convincing. So that was the biggest challenge. And you know, for every character, it's it's its own challenge because find I find parts that are we are like in, and those parts are easy, and then there are parts always they're different. And for those, I have to use my imagination and obviously do the do the homework.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Being able to incorporate stunts into these movies is also a lot of fun because I feel like I get to bring another part of myself to uh the characters that I play. I think that adds a lot of depth. I've gotten to learn combat stunts, starting with Temple, really. Secrets of the Temple. So that was a really cool thing that I got to sort of add to my list of abilities.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

I think on the stunt side, you know, we had a a guy that I brought on to do just stormtrooper stunts, and he was an actual, he did a lot more stunts, like for I think it's like 20 gigs. And he he only, I think, walked away with like a bruise on his knee or something, but it was from the armor pinching his knee. And so it wasn't really like from all his stunts, from what I understand. And he did some crazy stunts where he was actually falling off from legends where Tanner splashes at him and he falls back. You know, that was that was the real guy that fell back. It's during one of the vision sequences where he has the purple light where he goes, splashes the guy in half and he falls down. He does all sorts of fun stuff, but um, we we had to like Tanner said, you know, I made sure to make sure everyone was okay doing their own stunt if they wanted to. If not, then we just didn't do it because safety was always important as well. There were actually some some stunts that we filmed where it didn't look good and I didn't even use it because the actor actress was hesitant for and said, Yeah, yeah, I'll give it a shot, but they weren't a stunt person, and so it didn't look good.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

Yeah. Is there anything that that you found really difficult to embody for the character or the process of the filming, or does things seem right now?

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, it's a little bit of a mix of both. He's a very complex character. He d he becomes a more complex character. I think in Inseeks of the Temple, he he it was sort of mostly one emotion, and then near the end, you sort of he sort of starts to break down. And then in Crusader, it's a lot of emotion. And so that was a little more uh difficult, I would say. It was a lot of fun. I really loved finding that emotion in Alex, but it was it took some work in yeah, the the the process, the sort of journey that he goes through. I had to I don't want to say study, but like kind of I would I would I would read over the lines just on my own before we would film and just really dive into okay, what is he like if I was in this situation right now, how would I be feeling? What would what would I be going through? In my personal life, I'm never gonna be in a moment where I'm like I killed my best friend's lover. Like, how do I deal with that? But Alick has to deal with that, and so I have to put myself in that situation. Like, how would the emotion come out? How how raw would it be? How much would I be like holding back? And so I had to sort of consider all those different things, and so when it came time to actually film it, all of that preparation came through in addition to when you're actually on set with all of the characters, with all the actors, with all the wardrobe, it adds a level of reality, and so it's sort of the the tipping point to really bring the performance for me to where I think it needs to be.

SPEAKER_05 21:41

Do you both have some advice for those fans among us who'd like to make Star Wars fanmade film?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I think number one, it's find your crowd and find people who you work good with who believe in your ideas. Because whether you're a seasoned filmmaker, you're a professional, or if you're just starting and you don't know what you're doing very much, but still want to do your film, it's important that people that you work with good and supportive. And this way either they teach you or you just teach each other in the process. Um because you by yourself, of course, can make a film, but it will be so much better if you have a team. And at first, you might not have many people believe in you if you haven't done anything yet, because you don't have anything to show them, but just start somewhere and have at least a couple of friends or someone who knows what they're doing to help you. And then you can show the result to more people and more will come aboard. So it works like this. So you earn a reputation project by project by project. And once it becomes really good, People will actually come to you and see if you're doing anything because like, hey, I can do this, this, this. Do you need anyone like me? And so I guess that's the fun of it. You meet new people, you collaborate together and make each other better. So yeah, fine, find, find your crowd. And then the second thing I think be truthful to the Star Wars world, universe. But also don't be afraid to make tweaks if you feel like that's what your creative desire is. So you know what I mean? So take risks. Yes, take risks, but still keep it Star Wars because people are very sensitive to those things. When something doesn't feel like Star Wars, we pick it up. So if if you are a fan, then it shouldn't be a problem to do that. So I think that's another fun thing to do when you're you're making your own project. You can it it's yours. You can put your own vision and your own experience into it, and nobody can judge you for it.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Don't let budget restrain you from your vision. We had none. Yeah, no, yeah, it was very, very tight budget on this one. I I always believe there's a way. Keep the passion alive, entertain that and feed that passion. Oh, for me, it's music, like soundtrack. I will always listen to the music to entertain that and to keep it building. The first fan film we did was just for fun, make sure you're having fun through the journey, no matter what. Money, money is a tool, but it's also like if not used correctly or not entertained correctly, it can stomp growth, I think. If you're just like really like focused on on that. I feel like it can ruin a lot of ruin relationships, ruin moments. But the like the passion and the fun is what keeps it together.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

What's that advice as well? Look, these questions for Tana. Tana, what's in the future for Ilec and what's next for you, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Uh well, we left off with him just walking to the temple not knowing exactly what he's gonna do in there. But I Lockman's already written the scripts, but I actually don't know what the story is because he hasn't told me yet. But I I envision I'm a hopeless sort of positive outcome viewer. So I just I just envision him getting his family back and living with like raising his kids and having just being a good good dad to them and showing them the world and have helping them become great people themselves. That's what I envision for you.

SPEAKER_06 25:21

And Loughlin, what what about you? What are some thoughts about what's coming next? No spoilers.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

It's a very exciting, complex story. Like, and I I wanna I want it to be a surprise for everyone that sees it. Like, so I don't want to share too much. But I will say like a lot of I I will answer this. A lot of people ask, like, is he gonna choose any of the moments that he looked at in Voyage? And the answer is no, he hasn't choose any of those moments. And so it's something that we haven't seen yet. So I'll just say that. It's something bigger than what I've ever done before.

SPEAKER_06 25:54

Yeah, such a such an interesting thing on the horizon and for backyard tripod films, but Ray Connects. What about you? Anything else on the horizon? Any little tidbits you can share for us today?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

There is something else. There's no Ayla right now because I don't know the the body paint. It was brutal. But yes, I am working on something very special right now. I've been working on this project for the last year and a half. It's a new fan film. And I'm not saying what it is right now because it's gonna be a little surprise. I'm gonna reveal it when we're a little bit later in post-production, but it has been shot already and uh edited. Now we are in in post-production stage. So the music, the voiceover, the sound effects, and I'm hoping to finish it in a few months. And so once it's close to being done, I will do an announcement of what it is, but it's long, it's like 20 20 minutes, 21 minutes, so far, it's longer, and it's the most epic thing I've done ever, I think, because the scope of this production was massive. So I'm very excited about that one. That one's super special, and it's my favorite character. I'm one of the very, very favorite characters, and I get to play a lot in this film. So, like play a lot, meaning not playing the character, but play for having fun, have a lot of fun during this project. So we have so many people taking part of it. So you'll see many familiar faces. Follow me on Instagram, so do you keep an eye on it because I can't wait to show you.

SPEAKER_06 27:31

We can find you on Instagram at Ray Connect R-E-I-K-E-N-N-E-X, but we can also find you on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yes, you can find me on YouTube. That's where all of my fan films go and some other things too. So it's also ray.connect on YouTube. My channel is the same. Give me a follow or say hi or ask me anything. No, I'm always happy to meet new people and to say hi to everyone.

SPEAKER_06 27:55

Well, thank you so much for joining us. And just before you go, there's also something that you're driving forward at the moment, which is to donate money towards uh rescue animals over in Ukraine. Tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

There's a lot of need right now for uh animal rescues and shelters because there's a lot of uh frontline cities and villages that are being abandoned. So a lot of animals were left behind, and volunteers go and evacuate them. And all of these animals go to rescues and volunteers and uh shelters. So everything's overcrowded, they're out of money, they're out of resources, there's a lot of animals that are obviously hurt, farm animals as well, not just pets. So they're really, really overwhelmed, and there's a lot of smaller groups, volunteers that don't have online presence as much or not at all, but they still need help. So I focus mostly on those smaller ones because you know they they don't have that much exposure, but I know all of them. And so I'm doing uh all kinds of fun auctions and fundraisers on my Instagram so people can win like an autographed item, a collectible, or you know, just donate whatever they can. It was my birthday a couple of years a couple of days ago, so I also did like a PayPal Me thing. Like even if you have a dollar you want to donate, just send it over and I'll send everything. So that went really well. So yeah, it's if anyone is interested in helping, I'd be super grateful.

SPEAKER_06 29:19

It was so amazing to have all of you on the podcast today. Of course, you can check out and support them all. You can donate to a volunteer organization that helps a lot of smaller rescues and volunteers at cat dogs underscore cats underscore need help and pay PayPal will connect that to the bottom. We also love supporting fan films, and probably so do you. If you love Star Wars, really start to think about supporting those people that are out there that are making Star Wars just the best community to be a part of. Because Rogue, correct me if I'm wrong, but this has been the best part of this journey is literally sharing the time with Star Wars.

SPEAKER_05 30:01

Oh, without a doubt, and we we've often reflected on it post recording our pods. The fans are what makes Star Wars what it is, and without them, there wouldn't be any Star Wars, and we wouldn't be here today either.

SPEAKER_06 30:12

It's not really a fan base, it's more like fan. You can support Rayconnect as well, and I'm gonna link her PayPal below just with everything she's got cooking. I am excited. Then you can also support Backyard Tripod films. There's a Venmo, Venmo, and GoFundMe. So if people wish to support them that way, any $500 plus donations to the projects automatically gives donors an executive producer credit in the associates project. So isn't that just fantastic? As a Star Wars fan, you can be a part of something that's just so big. If you haven't started on their films, go and check them out. That's Backyard Tripod Films. Loki is a superstar, he's got a great mind, he's a great writer, and he's really inclusive for all the actors. There's some brilliant stuff on their YouTube as well. You can go and check out all their backstage videos, some huge talent of what they've got going on there. Check out their films. You've got to do that.

SPEAKER_05 31:10

And I think we've given the fans a little treat today and the listeners a little treat. And I hope people tune in and follow these guys and support fan-made films. It's it's an exciting space that um not many uh people tend to explore to its full, full availability. So get on in it into it and uh have a listen today and hope you enjoy this hyperspace hot takes for this episode five.

SPEAKER_06 31:35

And you can go and find the full interviews on our YouTube channel. But these fan films are so good. I'm saying they're better than Disney content. That's what I'm saying. You're on, Odie.

SPEAKER_07 31:48

Ichuta.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Ichuta of Odd Rogs and Hot Pots. I'm Evelyn, but I am known by Evie Blue on Instagram and TikTok, and I'm here with another educator today.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

Hi, my name's Peter Marigold. I run a website called fanfilmpire.com, which is dedicated to incredible fan-made films for Star Wars mainly, but also Marvel DC and Star Trek and possibly expanding to other franchises. And it's somewhere you can go to find the most amazing fan films you can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I said, we are guest adjudicators today as Odie and Rogue battle it out. They are both debating that fan films, both AI and not, are greater than Disney films. So for the positive of the debate, hailing from the state of Victoria, Australia, a teacher, father, artist, and writer, I introduce Odie.

SPEAKER_06 32:34

I'm a self-published author as well, and I wrote a children's book called Beyond the Storm with my friend Jade, who's an artist over in Kent in England. I, a father of three girls, recently had a baby, and I also love Star Wars so much that I've got a few OCs in the background that I'm working on and drawing.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Also, hailing from Victoria, Australia, we have Rogue, an animal activist, an ex-zoo director, and animal conservationist. Rogue's a passionate advocate, father, and lover of the combination of breakfast and lunch, known as brunch, at local cafes. Rogue, can you tell us three things about yourself, please?

SPEAKER_05 33:12

I'm an avid Star Wars fan. My favorite character is Kip Darren from the expanded universe. I have a son who's my absolute pride and joy. I'm an avid conservationist. My favorite animal is the koala. And I'm a unknown, unbeknownst to many people, I'm actually a koala reproductive specialist. It's a bit of a mouthful. So if you need reproductive advice about koalas, I'm your man. Come and have a chat. And that's me.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Well, without further ado, let's get into the debate. Odie, Europe first for the positive debating Star Wars fan films are greater than Disney content. Take it away.

SPEAKER_06 33:52

We are here because we ourselves are fans, right? Odie and Rogue, shock horror are not our real names. Like Tag and Bink, we are just podcasting as a fan fiction because we are the fans and we are doing this for the fans. For the fans, by the fans. Yes, you'll probably say Paul Sun Young Lee, who plays Carson Tever, is a huge fan. Dave Falone is a huge fan. John Favreau, a huge fan. But fan films go beyond what they give us. They give us stories from stories beyond Disney. The corporate management can ruin decisions that were original concepts, concepts that would have lifted Star Wars beyond where it is now. There's no doubt that Ray Kin X and Lachlan McLean, Ray Kin X, who did the Secure fan film, of course, and Loughlin McLean, who directed the Voyager the Crusade and Secrets of the Temple, and has done, well, five all of fan films, give everything to what they do. And so much so that they depend on everyone. And that's what Star Wars is all about. It's about helping each other, it's about supporting each other. Yes, the big wigs, they put a lot into it as well. But Lachlan and Ray are the opposite, as they do not get the backing they deserve to create the clear vision. They have to give people stories that could change lives. So fan films are something that can expand Star Wars to a whole new level. And they have expanded things to a whole new level. You jump on the catalogue that Peter has has put together, and there is some amazing work.

SPEAKER_05 35:23

Wow, Odie, what a what a powerful way to kick off this debate. And I like the the fact that you called out there the fan-made film Sakura. Brilliantly made, genuinely exciting, because fans really cared about that character. But today we're not here to talk about the the art behind fan films. We're actually here to talk about whether fan films are better than Disney. And I just want to draw your attention to one thing. Well, Sekura is beautifully shot and genuinely captures the spiritual atmosphere of Star Wars, like many fan films and subsequent AI films. And I understand why you why you value it, but the film essentially is working inside an established mythology rather than expanding it. So for my rebuttal, I would say that Disney has had to decide how the force evolves through projects like Ahsoka, Tales of the Jedi, and the High Republic era. Those productions carry the responsibility of adding to canon rather than simply celebrating it or expanding it. So whilst I admire this film enormously, and but celebrating Star Wars and steering Star Wars are certainly two different challenges. So when we debate whether AI and fanmade films are better than Disney Star Wars, I think we need to start by asking the right question. So the motion isn't asking whether fan films are impressive, because they absolutely are. It's asking whether they are better than Disney Star Wars overall. So the first thing that separates the two, I can see is responsibility. So a fanmade film has complete creative freedom. They can choose Darfader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ala Secura, or the Clone Wars, because they're already beloved parts of the galaxy. Disney, on the other hand, doesn't have that luxury. Since acquiring Lucasfilm, it's had to steward an entire living franchise. Every film, television, series, novel, comic, and game has to fit within a coherent canon overseen by the Lucasfilm. Take the Mandalorian. It would have been much safer to make another Luke Skywalker story. Instead, Disney introduced Dinjar, an almost faceless bounty hunter, and Grogu, a completely original character who became one of the most recognizable figures in modern pop culture. That emotional connection wasn't borrowed, it was earned. Then we look at Andor. Disney transformed Cassie and Andor from an interesting supporting character in Rogue One into one of the deepest protagonists Star Wars had ever had. Through characters like Luthan, Mon Mothma, Keno Loy, Star Wars explored sacrifice, fascism, and rebellion without relying on lightsaber jewels every episode. That wasn't nostalgia, that was expansion. Now we compare that, say, with fanfilm SC-38 or Vader, who whom I really enjoy and have a lot of fun watching. It brings out that inner child in me viewing those films. They're beautifully produced and I genuinely admire them. But they begin with decades of emotional investment already established by George Lucas and Lucasfilm. We already know Vader's tragedy. We already know Obi-Wan's sacrifice. The filmmakers are standing on incredibly strong foundations. So I'm not criticizing them for that. I'm simply saying the creative challenge is fundamentally different. Celebrating something extraordinary is not the same challenge as creating the next extraordinary thing. So whilst fan films tend to celebrate the galaxy, Disney has to keep the galaxy alive.

SPEAKER_06 39:05

Rogue, you know, you talk about keeping Star Wars alive and it falls on Disney. The only reason it falls on Disney is because Disney used their corporate money to buy it in the first place. Star Wars wasn't dead. Star Wars was well and truly alive, and we had that through the EU. You talk about creating new films and new ways and new places and all that kind of stuff around what Disney has the choice to try and do. That's because they bought it. Disney Star Wars saturation was a real thing years before. We went years without Star Wars only to be promised oversaturation and poor story beats. Disney, besides Andor, you mentioned Andor, of course. Rogue One, yeah, good use of my favorite film. But Disney had a repertoire of Star Wars content. Hello, New Jedi Order. You know, the EU is still existent. You've got the Black Series Toys coming out, you've still got Jaina Solo, Jason Solo. No, you don't want to use those? Fine. What about Mara Jade? And these are fan films that can come out and explore these characters that we know and love as Star Wars fans right from the early days in the original trilogy. Hello, Heir to the Empire, Timothy Zarn. Did they use any of this? No, they just attempted to create something and ignore George's plans. I'm still waiting on the devastation of the Bothins that Mod Mockma suggests in episode six. How since Disney took over, I'm still waiting to find out what a bothan even is. The fans knew and they had it.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

Wow, that was that was a good round because I was like, yeah, rogue, everything you're saying, I'm right behind you. But then Odie, you started saying, like, you know, the EU existing and the fact that we have plot holes that Disney just left wide open. I'm like, oh, you're right. Like, those are good points. I I'm kind of torn, honestly, right now, between the two of you.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Really interesting. Every time I post a fan film, there's the same comments where people say, Oh, this is better than anything that Disney did. And it gets so boring. And I think there's so much, there's room, there's room for more. And I think what what you're talking about here is really, really interesting. It's complicated to keep going and expanding the franchise instead of just going over the same ground. Get ready, rogue.

SPEAKER_06 41:07

Timothy Zahn, Kevin J. Anderson, Jude Watson, John Ostrander, they are some names you may be familiar with. Timothy Zahn wrote Heir to the Empire. It was created in 1991. Timothy Zahn is a fan. So in theory, these authors that I've just mentioned of some great Star Wars content, they're fans. So therefore, is this fanfiction? Especially considered that once Disney bought some of their stories, in fact, a lot of their stories, decanonized. So therefore, in a way, it is kind of fanfiction. If you were lucky, Timothy Sahn can still be found at Comic Cons to this day, has never given up being a fan of Star Wars and giving more to Star Wars, even recently with his thrawn trilogy and being consultant to current stories. Kevin J. Anderson was a frequent writer to Star Wars, creating characters such as you may know him as Kip Darren. Now, if that's something, then that's gotta be big. Jude Watson created Jedi Apprentice, Jedi Quest, and more. John Ostrander created comics that George Lucas himself was inspired by. Quinlan Voss, Ayla Sakura. Sakura, the fan film, builds on John Ostrander's creations, what George Lucas understood the character to be. She includes the memories in her Luke Leku, the importance of Voss's lessons, and more just in five minutes. Meanwhile, Disney's recent display of the character provides timeline changes, having Sakura as a knight long before Anakin joins the Jedi Order. The fan films go beyond Disney. They offer fans stories written by fans, giving more and even enhancing Disney storytelling by giving fans the characters we truly want. Hello, Mara Jade. Hello, the real reason why Luke would ever betray the Jedi Order, a loss of love and the loss of families. But Disney took that character of Luke Schulker and tore it apart. Follow fan films to get your Mara Jade content because you should know it is there. And if it is not there, you've got to stay tuned because got some inkling that it might come up again very soon. Fan films build on characters that we know and love.

SPEAKER_05 43:06

Thanks, Odie. I think we need to come back to what we're actually debating today, which is whether fan films and AI is better than Disney. So whilst you did refer to some books and creators outside of that realm, I do pay respect to that. And I also respect those creators. I think one that coincides with what we're talking about today, which is the most important part about today's debate, is particularly the Air to the Empire AI film. So I can understand the excitement that can be created by some of these creators that sit outside the the AI and fan film creation. But I think we need to we need to hone in on say you know, you mentioned Timothy Sahn being a creator of Star Wars content and legendary. But even with this AI film, it pr it adapts an existing masterpiece. It's Disney faces much harder challenges of say bringing Thrawn back into a coherent modern canon while whilst also creating new stories. And I think adapting brilliance is different from inventing the future. The debate isn't whether even this is a brilliant fan project, it's whether it surpasses the responsibility of creating, expanding, and protecting and creating a continued timeline for the entire Star Wars Galaxy. So nearly every fan project that Odie has listed so far relies on characters and stories that audiences already love. The Empire, for instance, that we were just talking about, it works because Timothy Zahn wrote one of the defining novels of the expanded universe. That's not a weakness of those projects, but it is an important distinction. I want to draw our attention to Disney repeatedly really has to ask audiences to invest in people they've never met before. Din Jarren, Grogu, Balen Skull, Omega, Luthan, who I mentioned before, Bix Coleen. Those characters didn't arrive with decades of goodwill attached. They had to earn every emotional response through writing, acting, and storytelling. Disney has also shown respect for Star Wars history rather than ignoring it. Critics often say Disney abandoned legends, but that's only part of the story. Thrawn returned. Captain Pallian returned. Mount Tantis became canon again. Clone Commandos continued. Dark Troopers reappeared in The Mandalorians. Lucasfilm didn't simply erase legends. It selectively built many of its strongest ideas into a coherent modern continuity. Which I believe is the challenge that Disney has, which which for me puts it far ahead of fan films and AI. Fan films are free to choose whichever parts of legends they personally enjoy. Lucasfilm has to make decisions that influence the entire franchise to a much broader fan base. We're talking millions versus hundreds of thousands. That's a far heavier responsibility. So when I compare the two, I don't see fan films surpassing Disney. I see talented creators celebrating a universe that is still being being expanded by Disney every single year. Borrowing greatness is easier than building greatness. It's easier to borrow greatness, whereas it's much harder to create it.

SPEAKER_06 46:46

And I'm going to pull you up on something here, right? You talk about characters like Balin Skull being, you know, creating them. And I hey, nice use of some of my favorite characters here. Yeah, well played. However, here's the thing: Voyage of the Crusade goes off Secrets of the Temple. These are two fan-made films, no AI involved. Original characters. They had to build the storyline up. Yes, they built on George Lucas's premises of Order 66 and everything happening from that point. But they built these characters up and they're telling their own original content. They're telling their own original stories. And they're hitting those emotional beats even more so. I'm going to get that into my next point, but I just want to bring up the fact that there are these creators out there within the fan film empire that that's a shout out, fan film empire, that create these amazing storylines that still have those story beat elements that make Star Wars truly for what it is. So while you you mentioned also about canon, come on, like everything was canon before Disney took over. EU wasn't EU, it was Star Wars. And that's the whole point of this is that fan films enhance what we know, yes, but they also create original content that builds on lore and properly within the Star Wars universe.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

I think what Odie was just saying there was really convincing because there is like talk there there are so many fan films of so many different sorts, and yes, there are some which basically try and you know perfectly fill in all the gaps in in the in the original stories and expand on little details, but there are some that just completely do their own things and are just kind of weird creative projects that really kind of expand in ways that Disney can't expand because they have to kind of stay sort of within the universe. And I've been seeing a lot of like really cool anime and sort of puppetry ones recently, and they're sort of like going off and doing some weird things. And I think you know, to talk about fan films as one thing, it's it's not really accurate because there's so much of it out there from you know, decades, literally going back going back to the 70s. So I think that's that's a nice point.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

I like what you said about how while there are some that take characters we already know and kind of expand stories in that way, there are a lot of fan films that do have their own original characters, their own complete mini universe inside the Star Wars universe, using just like the big elemental things of Star Wars to make it a Star Wars fan film, but still make it original and having those emotional beats that, like you said, some for some fans hit harder than what Disney has done. And so that and also like you like you also touched on the how the EU was there before Disney even took over. So it was already you know canon Star Wars for a long time, and that's kind of I can see why a lot of people you know still want that to be canon, and some people still still still believe it. Some people uh completely deny that Disney films exist.

SPEAKER_06 49:50

Prepare, I've got my green lightsaber out. Look out the key characters that create Star Wars. Sometimes we do not get enough of them. Yes, there are comics, yes, there are animated TV series, but what if fans really want live action? And in fact, Rogue blatantly said that's what fans want in the last episode of our podcast when he mentioned seeing Obi-Wan versus Maul in their final fight in Rebels. Well, Rogue, you can go right ahead and see it happen in fan films. AI created into live action. Fan films are giving fans what they want. Therefore, they are in fact better than Disney content. If you traverse YouTube or even a fan film catalogue of fan films, you can see that there is content for your most beloved characters. Let's take Vader, for example. Some fans say Vader is overused, others say not enough. We all know Theory Sabres and the work, or Star Wars Theory and the work he is doing. Recently, he released Vader 2. He reintroduced Macewindu, giving us new content and a story that we all want answered. Did Macewindu survive? We can all find out in fan films. Theory uses high-grade special effects, funds everything himself, and builds upon lore that we know and love. Not adding, changing, or altering lore such as the sequels did. He takes his love of Star Wars and makes it into a film of what we want. Did we want to see General Leia floating through space like Superman? No. Did we want Broom Boy? No. Did we want to see a young girl struggle on a desert planet and complete a hero's journey arc we all saw in the original trilogy? No. Have you seen The Voyage Crusade? I mentioned it before. We saw a Star Wars birth where a father is actually present. We see a brother relationship, return to forgiveness and light. We see heroes that we need now, not a hero's journey that is force-fed to us. All in all, the fans make Star Wars. It is what we have said on this show and continue to say. No fans are like Star Wars fans. No people are like Star Wars people. And we when we realize this, when we notice it, truly, deep down, it is like family. That is what Star Wars is all about. From the novels written from the EU to the fan films created from these stories to the original concepts we see and are yet to see. Fan films give us the stories we need and the stories we want. You cannot take that away. And Disney, if you're listening, maybe you should take note on some of the stories that are being told within fan films today.

SPEAKER_05 52:12

Uh Odie, some really great points and a powerful way to end round three. And I just wanted to touch on two of the fan-made films that you that you mentioned there in Invader and Voyage of the Crusader. Look, I admire the ambition of Voyage of the Crusader. However, it's it's not really what we're here to talk about today. It's it's we know we know that we know the topic. And I just want to say that, you know, with Disney, they must ensure that every news story fits alongside decades of interconnected canon. Fan films focus on a lot of the times one adventure. Lucasfilm must think about the entire galaxy and its future. You mentioned Vader, it succeeds because audiences already know Anakin's complete tragedy before the first frame begins. Disney built on that foundation. Disney's challenge, introducing completely original characters like those that I've mentioned, Din Jaren, Grogu, Balin Skull, whilst also respecting Vader in projects like Rogue One and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Creating Tomorrow's Legends is a harder achievement than revisiting yesterday's, and it's a strong line and a strong point that I continue to come to. Final argument is the one I think that m matters most because it gets to the heart of today's motion. Throughout this debate, we've talked about some incredible fan projects, and I want to acknowledge something that the judges have rightly pointed out. That some of these fans fan films do tackle larger plot points. Heir to the Empire explores the future of the New Republic. Voyager of the Crusade Crusader attempts to tell an original large-scale Star Wars adventure. Path of the Lost expands on Jedi philosophy. And these aren't simply short action scenes, they're ambitious stories, and I genuinely respect the people who made them. But here's the distinction I think is most important. Those creators have the freedom to tell the story they want to tell. Lucasfilm doesn't. Lucasfilm has to tell the story that becomes Star Wars. That's a fundament fundamentally different responsibility. If we take the expanded universe as an example, Odie's absolutely right. It already existed long before Disney purchased Lucasfilm. It was built over decades by extraordinary writers like Timothy Zahn, James Locino, Matthew Stover. They created one of the richest science fiction universes ever created. And Star Wars fans, including me, owe them an enormous debt. But Disney inherited more than brilliant stories. It inherited the responsibility of deciding what would become one coherent ongoing canon for films, television, novels, comics, and games. That's not simply a creative challenge. It's a stewardship challenge. A fan film can ask, what if this happened? But Lucasfilm has to answer, if this happens, what does it mean for every story that comes after it? That's why I believe the burden is so much greater. So if we look at what Disney has contributed, Rogue One showed us the cost of rebellion through ordinary people willing to sacrifice everything. And or proof Star Wars would become a greater political thriller without relying on Jedi or lightsabers. The Mandalorian created an entirely new era between Return of the Jedi and the Force Awakens, introducing Dinjaran and Grogu while laying the foundations for stories like Ahsoka. Even when projects divide opinions, they're still taking creative risks and moving the galaxy forward. History tells us that those risks are often reassessed. The prequel trilogy was heavily criticized when it was released. Today an entire generation celebrates it. The original, the Clone Wars film, received mixed reception before the series became one of the most beloved pieces of Star Wars media ever made. Innovation almost always faces greater scrutiny than nostalgia. AI is becoming an incredibly creative tool. Fan filmmakers continue to amaze me and I sincerely hope that they never stop creating because they enrich our community. But tonight's motion isn't whether they enrich Star Wars, it's whether they're better than Disney Star Wars overall. The answer is still no for me. Because fan creators have the freedom to explore the stories they love. Lucasfilm has a responsibility to decide which stories become the future of Star Wars. Those are not the same challenge. One celebrates a galaxy, the other has to build it. And for me, creating the next generation of Star Wars, whilst honoring that came before it, is still the greatest creative responsibility in this franchise. So whilst fan films are the love letter to Star Wars, Disney has the difficult task of writing the next chapter.

SPEAKER_06 57:05

You talk about how Disney has this challenge, you know, this challenge of trying to fit everything in and trying to make everything work. But the fact is that fan films also do that. We just interviewed Lachel McLean and Tana McNatt, who starred in Voyager of the Last Voyage of the Crusade, and they spoke about having to make sure that the jet pack on Django Fett was exactly the same, and the content that they were creating was around the story structure about how that affects in the Attack of the Clones. They're situating their stories in fan-made films within the Star Wars universe that is already canonized and isn't really Disney related. The problem here is that Disney is a corporate foundation. And I've come back to my original point. They've got all the resources at their fingertips, and yet they still make errors. They still make mistakes. And the mistakes, fans know about those mistakes. You know, you you mentioned Mandalorian, and you look at the the box, the box office sales just plummeting in that in that last in the second week, because we we have these expectations around how Disney should present, because they have a responsibility now. They have a responsibility to give us the correct stories and the right stories that are impactful and moving. And I think that without fan films and without the development of passion projects, we lose out on quality storytelling. And the reason why we lose out on quality storytelling is because Disney's not presenting it.

SPEAKER_04 58:36

Do you guys particularly align with the sides that you're taking, or is this just to create a debate? No, okay.

SPEAKER_05 58:45

No, I'm actually a big believer in fan-made films.

SPEAKER_06 58:49

And I'm the opposite. I actually've gone opposite. I also am not a fan of AI creations. And so, you know, as an artist myself, generative AI is really I'm really against it in a lot of ways. And it hugely is also a teacher and and a and and someone who you know explores the the use of water within AI creation and data centers and all that kind of stuff that's going on right now. It's such a such a difficult thing to for me to debate for because I just don't agree with it. As an artist on Instagram as well, and doing digital art, there's such a space that people utilize within AI art that I that I find really challenging. And so then to debate that today has been really confronting.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Yeah, because the debate's over, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was I was kind of surprised no one brought that point up.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

The AI films are so controversial, but I I've something I've often said on the comments on the Instagram channel is these are really good storyboards to see which stories translate well into films. And the opportunity now that these AI films that have already existed and people have Shadows of the Empire or the Empire, any of these, you know, they they've kind of storyboarded them out, and they're now ready for a fan to go in, a group of fans, and make a really good version of these AI films.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:16

But yeah, I hear what you're saying, Peter. There's there's such an opportunity to expand on it so much deeper and so much greater than what AI could ever could ever do.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

If it just turns out that it's just kind of like a way to make quick money, quick films, quick music, then that would just be savage, I think. Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:33

I agreed. And I think creative process needs to be a human process. Ready to deliberate, you guys, whatever you've created.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

For round one, Star Wars lore, Odie, five out of five, evidence provided. I gave you a three out of five, and for the rebuttal, I gave you a five out of five. Are you guys writing this down?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:55

Yeah, I'll get you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Okay, sweet. And then Rogue, that first round, again, Star Wars Lore, five out of five. Evidence provided four out of five, and the rebuttal five out of five. That first round was really interesting because both of you had me on each side. Because I, you know, I obviously am biased to the one side, but I was really trying to meet be. And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna give it based on the info they give. And both of you were doing a great job at rebuttling each other. Then I was like, wow, you know, those are some really good points. So you guys obviously know how to debate. Obi round two, Star Wars lore, five out of five. Evidence provided five out of five, and rebuttal five out of five. Oli got fives across that board. And then Rogue, you for Star Wars lore, five out of five. Evidence provided round two. I gave you a three out of five. And then rebuttal a four out of five.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:54

Oh, I'm up by one. I'm up by one here. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

And then round three, Odie. Five out of five for Star Wars lore, evidence provided five out of five, rebuttal four out of five. Rogue for the last round, Star Wars lore, five out of five. Evidence provided four out of five, and rebuttal four out of five.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:18

Look at him, look at him, Pete. I hope you've made up those two points. I'm really hedging my bets on the the fan-made film guide that this is gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:34

Have you guys got money writing on this?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:38

Millions, millions of dollars, Pete, and you can have a cut. Oh, gee. You should get points deducted for uh for trying to bribe the two patterns. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

I was constantly trying not to be biased, as I said, and and I was trying to be fair to the Disney direction. So for OD in round one, I gave you 11 out of 15, and Rogue, I gave you 13 out of 15. But in round two, you you both had great in each round, you both had great arguments, but like rogue was like such a hard job. Like creating the new Star Wars universe is expanding into that universe, is really hard. Anyway, Odie, I gave you again 11 out of 15, round two, and rogue again. I gave you 13 out of 15. Oh, you're two points ahead now. Come on, I've got it, I've got to send it, I've got to send it home. Come on. Come on, Peter. I I thought, like, okay, I I round round three, Odie. You had me when you said the fan, I I I just like felt my bias just like surged forwards when you said the fan films give the fans what they want. And I was like, that's a fact, that's just a simple, clear, evidence fact, and I gave you 14 out of 15 for for making that solid argument, and then rogue, you came in, I thought you came in weak.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:20

Savage.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

So I've got I don't know if you can you can't see it. Your first point you made, I gave it nine out of 15, but then you kind of proceeded and I went, hang on a minute, he's pulling it back, and I went up to 11 out of 15, and then I also finished, scribbled that out, and it got to 14 out of 15. So you were neck and neck on round 14 out of 15. So I don't know where that leaves you on the scores.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:47

Well, there he there we go. Odie, I've lost it. Rogue, you're the winner, mate. Well done, congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:55

But nobody believes what Rogue was saying, which is so funny, including Rogue.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Wait, that's actually so funny and interesting. I actually was on Rogue's side. That was my bias.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:09

Well, at the end of the day, we respect opinions. And yeah, Rogue, any winning words?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:13

It's really fitting to have you both on the show today and and have you both present different opinions and viewpoints. And I think it's a real strength. So really appreciative to have you both with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

Thank you for having us. This was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

It was really useful. I have to say, really, really useful because I'm constantly trying to have a balanced view of what Disney has actually done with Star Wars. And and I do feel there's room to expand the universe, and it's not simply about kind of going over all the old stuff. It is like that. You used a really good word that won me over Rogue, which was stewardship, complicated boat that you're sort of driving into the future. And I think that's the new generation.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Yeah, I really loved all of Rogue's points of how fan films are fun, but you know, Disney does have the responsibility to make sure this timeline and this canon timeline all ties together neatly and and that and so that it works, so that it continues to be multi-generational. I think Star Wars is gonna, you know, we got a new movie coming out next year and more after that. Like Star Wars already spans across so many different generations going back to the 70s, that I think it's gonna continue to grow decade after decade as far as it looks right now. And so the the responsibility of Disney is is huge.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:42

Yeah. Look, I don't want to wear that one on my shoulders, but what we have done is we've finalized our last debate, our final, our cap on season one of Odd Rogs in Hot Pods, a Star Wars podcast. And what amazing guests we've had on the show today. Ray Kinex, Tana McNatt, Lachlan McLean, and of course, Evie Blue and Fanfilm Empire, Peter from fanfilmpire.com. You can follow Evie Blue at Eeve Blue on Instagram and TikTok. That is at E-E-V-E-E-B-L-U-E-E. She is such a positive person, an amazing person, and thank you so much, Evie, for being on the show today. You can also follow all the work that Peter's doing and go and watch some fan films. Go and watch the fan films that we talked about today because they are absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:32

We think there's space for all of all of the opinions and and all of the views, and that all fans are welcome. You know, we we come from it that Star Wars content is great content, right? Like it gives us an opportunity to deliberate, to discuss, to delve deeper. And I think that's what's great about the Star Wars galaxy.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:49

Absolutely. And it's so good to have people come on the show. Like Rayconnex, you can find her. Rayconnex at R-E-I-K-E-N-N-E-X on YouTube and on Instagram and follow along. She's got some great fan films on under her belt already. Follow Backyard Tripod Film at Backyard Tripod Films. Also follow the links below to support all the fan films that we've talked about today, all the Instagram accounts that we've included in this podcast, and follow along next podcast as we thank everyone that has ever come on to our show this season. We'll put all the connects down there that we have onto next season as well. So please follow along.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:29

We can't wait for you to be involved. And that's what that's what really this podcast is all about. It's it's all about obviously Star Wars and you, the fans. So don't be shy. Send us an email, send us an Instagram message, jump on our Facebook, give us a follow. We'd love to engage with you and we'd love to hear from you. And Odie, that just about wraps us up for now.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:50

May I just say thank you, listeners, so much. May the force be with you all. This is Odie signing out for season one. Thank you. May the force be with you. May the force be with you.