Dr. Clint Moses: Running a Thriving Practice & Representing Wisconsin's 92nd Assembly District

Today I’m thrilled to speak with doctor of chiropractic, Clint Moses—and also known as Wisconsin State Assembly Representative Clint Moses.

Dr. Moses is a chiropractor who earned his degree from Northwestern Health Sciences University in 2003. He practices in Menomonie, Wisconsin, and sees patients from the surrounding communities in the western part of the state. Dr. Moses works alongside his wife, Dr. Nora Moses, a chiropractor and a fellow Northwestern graduate. Together, they run a thriving practice dedicated to improving their patients’ health and wellness.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association podcast. Back to basics. My name is Dr. Chris Rashford, president of the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association. Today I'm thrilled to speak with Doctor of Chiropractic, Clint Moses, also known as Wisconsin State Assembly Representative, Clint Moses. Please allow me to explain. So Dr. Moses is a chiropractor. He went to Northwestern Health Sciences University in 2003. He practices in Menominee, Wisconsin, the western part of the state, actually where he grew up, but he also works alongside his wife, Dr. Nora Moses, who's also a chiropractor and also a fellow Northwestern graduate. Today they run a thriving practice again in Menominee, Wisconsin. Here's the rest of the story. So in addition to being a chiropractor, Dr. Moses is also representative Moses. He's an elected member of the Wisconsin State Assembly. He represents Wisconsin's 92nd Assembly District and is currently serving in his third term. In Madison, he was elected and elected by his peers to chair the Assembly Committee on Health, Aging, and Long-Term Care. It's a very prestigious position. And he's actually been chair since his second term in office. So today, uh Representative Moses and I will discuss not only chiropractic, but we'll also get deeper into his career in politics and we'll talk about the meaningful work that is being done at our state capitol. So we're also going to delve into the details of the initiatives that directly affect chiropractic care. And in that, we'll discuss what the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association has successfully done to improve Medicaid reimbursement for chiropractors. And then also we're going to get into what is needed to be done to pass future legislation to utilize chiropractic's full scope of practice with Medicaid beneficiaries. I hope you enjoy my conversation with chiropractor, Wisconsin State Assembly Representative, Dr. Clint Moses. All right, we have Representative and Dr. Clint Moses, otherwise known as Representative Clint Moses, D.C. How are you doing today, Clint? Very good. Thanks for having me on here, Chris. Well, I appreciate it. I know it's been a long time coming. You're a busy guy, just ran a successful campaign, and you'll believe representing the 92nd district in our state assembly in the state of Wisconsin. So thank you very much, Clint. Let's just kick this off with a chiropractic question. How did you get interested in chiropractic?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Well, you know, I don't know if I'm that terribly unique, although I decided to be a chiropractor fairly early on. I think I was probably like sixth or seventh grade, had had some athletic-related injuries, typical stuff, uh uh flake football, and then into physical, uh full tackle football, um, some knee issues, some low back issues. And I seek care from a number of different providers and ended up getting the most relief from our local chiropractor who was actually now retired up there. I see a lot of his patients myself now, but yeah, that was really what got me interested in it. I knew I wanted to go into some type of helping profession. My mom was involved as a uh social worker and mental health therapist, so I thought about that route. And I looked at, you know, physical therapy and medical school, and really I wanted to be able to practice on my own, make my own decisions as far as what I think is going to help the patient the best. And obviously, chiropractic gets to the root of the problem. We all know that as chiropractors, it's one of those things we don't just cover it up and mass the uh symptoms, we actually try to address what the real cause is. So that's why I really got interested in it. Um, quite a bit different than uh my wife, who also is a chiropractor. My wife didn't decide uh to be a chiropractor until after undergraduate in college up at uh she went to Hamlin University in St. Paul, actually, she was an athletic trainer prior to becoming a chiropractor. And same thing though, she actually shadowed and experienced a number of different providers and really found chiropractic to be the best fit for what she wanted to do and her personality, just like I did. I just did it much earlier than her. Gotcha. So your wife, Nora, I believe is her name, correct? She's from central uh Wisconsin. She's actually from the Stevens Point area, from uh little town called Hancock near Plainfield, just south of Stevens Point. So she had actually gone to undergraduate up in St. Paul, Minnesota, and we met actually in chiropractic school at Northwestern Chiropractic College, as what it was called back then. So I guess we're getting old, Dr. Chris, because I still call it Northwestern Chiropractic. It's uh now Northwestern Health Sciences University. So uh that's how we met. Um, and then the rest is all history. We've been practicing in Menominee since 2003. Um, so a little bit over 20 years uh dual practice. We've had associates over the years as well in our practice with us. Currently, it is just the two of us, but if someone wants to move to beautiful Menominee, Wisconsin, over on the west coast of the state, uh, we'd definitely be interested in uh talking to them.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

That'd be great. Hopefully, some of our listeners will uh pick you up on that. So tell me a little bit about your practice, mostly musculoskeletal, sports chiropractic.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, primarily. I mean, we're a pretty diverse uh practice. We've done a lot of different niches over the years, this and that. But we come back to, you know, a little bit of uh diversified, or I should say a lot of diversified, a little bit of gonsted, a little bit of activator, a little bit of Thompson drops, but we see the general population. We do treat a lot of athletes. We also see a lot of uh geriatric population, but uh primarily we see a lot of athletes related to high school sports, and then also with the University of Wisconsin Stout right in Menominee there as well. I treat a lot of uh the different teams from men's football to men's basketball, women's basketball, rugby, you name it, up there in Menominee.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So yeah, that's got to be very cool being in a college town with all the sports and the athletic events. So, you know, we talked to a lot of chiropractors on this podcast, and it's always fun to hear about their process of getting into the profession, then their experience at school and what type of you know practice they run, techniques, and we get into a lot of that. But you have a very unique aspect of your career. You decided that you wanted to become involved in state politics. Let's talk a little bit about what interested you and your path to Madison.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, and there's this could be a long, long uh podcast just talking about this because it really started early on being involved on a number of local boards. I'm the past uh president and chair of our community foundation, past rotary club president in our community. Um, and then I served on school board as a school board clerk prior to being in the legislature. And actually, for a little bit that overlapped with my first session in the legislature, I was still on the school board, which that gets to be a lot to balance. Uh, and I know we'll probably talk about balancing act of being a professional chiropractor, obviously, still treating patients and working in the legislature, but got interested in local government first. Also, you know, got interested obviously in healthcare. Being a sole practitioner or a tandem practice where we're doing a lot of the administrative stuff. Um, I deal with a lot of the insurance contracts and pre-authorization process and all that other stuff that comes with being a provider in your own clinic versus working in a larger system. So I got very interested in healthcare policy, not only at the state, but also at the federal level. So I'm probably the weirdest legislator in the building because I think I'm one of maybe a couple that are interested in healthcare policy and really understand it. I mean, even basic terminology comes in helpful that, you know, a lot of us providers, whether we're chiropractors, dentists, podiatrists, medical providers of any kind, there's certain terminology that a lot of us understand and share that just the general public and your average uh legislator, whether it's a state or federal legislator, may not understand. So it makes it much easier to navigate when you start talking to all the different stakeholders, from providers, like I've mentioned, to insurance companies, hospital association, and all the different entities that come and talk to me on a daily, if not uh if not daily, on a weekly basis, especially when we're in session. But that was really how I got interested in it. Same reason that I, you know, in a way, I got interested in being a chiropractor to help people. But I always say that I can help more people by helping other providers do their job better and more effectively in the state of Wisconsin by being in the state legislature. Because instead of just the patients that I see on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis in my practice, I'm helping members of the chiropractic associations and other providers across the state, whether it be nursing or, like I've said before, podiatrists, optometrists, all of them, because a lot of us share a lot of the same frustrations and concerns that uh, you know, we might have in the chiropractic world. There's a that a lot more that we have in common with other providers than we do as far as differences.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So being part of the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association myself and getting to the Capitol and visiting with uh different legislators, you know this, but I'm gonna just mention it anyway, Representative Moses. You are very well respected uh amongst your colleagues and especially amongst your colleagues that are also healthcare providers, uh, whether it's uh nurses or other doctors that are part of the legislative houses, you're very well thought of and respected. And you've become chair of the Assembly Health Committee. Tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, and you know, I think you touched on it a little bit, but really the advantage that uh I had is just having a good understanding of how things work in healthcare, um, just as opposed to just being a consumer or a patient. But that really helped uh me have a better understanding than a lot of my colleagues. And then to be honest, it was uh a great, great opportunity, obviously. You know, this is only my third session down here, and I was appointed as chair of the health, aging, and long-term care committee last session as basically a sophomore legislator. So it really that is uh that's uh quite a feat. And I will tell you, our committee obviously we had 16 members last session, which was the largest committee in the assembly. We also heard the most bills, we heard over 130 bills. Um, or I should say we had 130 bills referred to us, but we did hear the most, and we actually exact and moved on the most bills in the uh state assembly. Um, of that 16 member committee, though, prior to the election, due to retirements and the redistricting and people deciding obviously just not to run or losing an election, we ended up losing eight members out of 16. So half of my committee is brand new this session. In theory, we're still waiting for appointments. So the Democrats have not appointed, the Republicans have not appointed who they're gonna have on each committee yet. But I would anticipate that, well, at least half the members are gonna be brand new this session. So there's gonna be a lot of re-education. Uh, you and your friends that come to the Capitol are gonna have to talk to a bunch of new fresh faces and maybe repeat things that you've already said before because these are new eyes and ears looking at this legislation that affects us.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Oh, believe it or not, I'm looking forward and not for the process. Hello, everyone. This is Dr. Chris Rash, president of the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association. I want to take a moment to personally thank all Wisconsin chiropractors who have generously donated to our political conduct fund, the politic chiralstrom. So your contributions are making a difference. And thanks to your support, we've advanced several legislative initiatives that directly impact chiropractic care in the state of Wisconsin. The areas that we are currently focusing on are Medicaid and Medicare, both at the state and national level. We're working tirelessly to ensure all chiropractic tools and treatments are fully reimbursable under Medicare and Medicaid. We can't stop here. To those that are already giving, thank you again for your commitment. And to those who are considering giving, I encourage you to take the next step. The commitment of just$20 a month can help drive meaningful change and further strengthen our efforts. So, what am I asking? I'm asking all Wisconsin doctors of chiropractic to please consider helping to advance chiropractic care in the state of Wisconsin. Just visit the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association website, head to the government affairs section and find the Chi Restaurant page. There, you can simply scan a QR code or click on a link that donate now. It's that easy to get started. Together, we can continue building a strong future for chiropractic care. Thank you for your generosity and your support. So let's talk a little bit about your campaign. So you were just re-elected in a newly drawn state assembly seat with 53% of the vote. Did you run a different kind of campaign this election, given two-thirds of your district was new and it was a presidential year?

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah, you know, as far as what we do on our campaigns, the presidential year didn't necessarily affect what I had to do this particular time around. Like I said before, I ran, this was my third time running for state assembly on a third separate legislative map. Why is that? You know, I have patients and friends that ask, why is it that you have new territory every time? Because last time I could vote for you, the time before I could, or the previous time I couldn't, now I can. Well, every 10 years, redistricting occurs based on the census population, because basically of the 99 assembly districts, I won't bore you with the lengthy, lengthy details, but of the 99 assembly districts are supposed to represent equal number of people. So basically, each of us represents about 60, 61,000 people in the state of Wisconsin. We did the redistricting after my first session, but then when our state Supreme Court flipped two years ago, or last spring, I should say, they deemed that our maps were unconstitutional, threw them out, and we went back to the drawing board. And this last time that I ran, this past fall, was actually on Governor Tony Evers' map. So the governor actually drew my district along with all of the other ones in the state. And I'm proud to say, you know, you say 53%. Well, I used to win by mid-60s percent, so like 65, 66, my previous two elections. Governor Evers actually won my district as a Democrat in 2022 by 0.07. So not even a full percentage point. So I performed about 4% better than Governor Evers did in my district, 1% better than Senator, uh U.S. Senator Ron Johnson did in my district. So I do think working hard and being local and getting out and talking to people definitely pays off. But yeah, I had uh actually, it was just under 40% of my current constituents that I serve right now until the end of this second session are what I retain. So over 60%, as you said, it's almost two-thirds, are all new constituents. Well, the challenge with that is these are people that may not know you because they haven't reached out to your office. You haven't helped them with issues before. When I first ran, my little farm in the township of Menominee was on the furthest east part of my district. And then my district went all the way west up into St. Croix and a little bit of Polk County. So I had a lot of people to the west of my farm. Well, now with the current map that I actually won on this fall, my farm is the furthest west. So it flip-flopped. So now I have two major communities, both of about 15,000, 16,000. My hometown of Menominee, where UW Stout is, and then the city of Chippwa Falls and Lake Wasota, if your listeners are familiar with that. If you're not, you should come up and visit. It's a beautiful lake. There's some great campgrounds around there. But I have Menominee and Chippwa Falls in a long, narrow strip along Highway 29, uh, which compared to my previous assembly area in my districts, it is about an eighth or a seventh of the geography. It's much more condensed and smaller. So the challenge this side uh election season as well, because it was what they considered a swing seat, the amount of time and resources that both sides put in was astronomically more. We estimate that my opposition spent$750,000 to$800,000, including outside money. We will not know the actual full amount till probably late January. But to put that in perspective, I spent about$450,000 on my race. Compared to my last election back in 22, I spent$13,500 and I won by uh 20 points. So I guess the real positive is I got my exercise, I lost weight this cycle. Uh, the challenge is it's definitely a lot to balance with family and practicing. You know, I actually did have to cut back on the number of hours I was practicing during campaign season because of events and going out and talking to people, going door to door and all that stuff. So that was a bit more of a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Well, I guess my comment is gonna be I think you winning by those margins is a testament to your previous record, probably the doors that you knocked on, your campaign and the relationships that you've developed over the years, not only in your practice, but uh as a state politician. So that's great.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And I and I, you know, the other thing I was gonna add earlier, too, that I think in general, chiropractors just have a knack of trying to figure something out, working with people regardless of what background they come from, you know, what different views they might have. Like I still treat Democrats, still come to my office, believe it or not. I'm sure I still treat them the same as I would anyone else. But I think it gives us an advantage, not only in the healthcare world and in our little clinics, but also in a uh position like this. For instance, I had the pleasure of actually having a handful of bills. I actually had five total bills last session signed by the governor. Well, you don't get that kind of stuff done if you're just down here to poke people in the eye and be super partisan. So I think people see through some of that stuff and you know see that I am actually going to work for them regardless of if they voted for me or not.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah, definitely. So you touched on a little bit about your practice. Can we talk about work-life balance and also balance between a chiropractic practice and your duties in Madison? Because I'm always intrigued with how you do it, Clint. How do you see patients? I believe you probably see patients on like a Monday and Friday, and you're in medicine Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays. Take us down that trip.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, and it works most of the time. There's been a few times where I've had to jockey and reschedule patients or have uh my wife cover for me, uh, but it's pretty rare. You know, in our world, many of us are familiar with cluster booking. My staff in the Capitol is very aware and uh very good at cluster booking now because some legislators will come down here and they'll kind of spread things out and they got the whole week to work with. When I come down here, I pack as much in. And that's honestly a lot of why we're doing this as late the day today as we are, is I just pack as much as I can in. I try to work efficiently. And you know, we hear in our world being in the zone. Well, that's the same thing uh in my legislative world. When I come down here, I want to be in the zone and really focused on what I can get done down here. When I'm in my practice, I want to be focused on that patient that's in front of me and not thinking about politics. The biggest challenge is so many patients will ask me, so what's going on down there in Madison? What's going on at the Capitol? And uh for me, I have to very be very polite and just turn it back and hey, today we're here to talk about you and how we can help you. But that balance, you know, it works pretty good for the most part. There's days where I'll tell you, you get pretty exhausted. When I circle back and I think about why I'm doing it and the purpose and the mission and the passion that I have for it, I'm re-energized. I am excited to get back to work again here in January for this new session, even though we just came off an exhausting uh campaign schedule. But it's the same with practice, you know, get out what you put into it, basically. So, you know, it's one of those things I never really coast and ever do anything halfway. Proud to be, and I don't think I touched on this yet in this podcast at least, but I didn't know this when I ran being the first ever chiropractor in the state of Wisconsin to actually serve in the legislature, not the first one to try it. I believe there was four or five others between Senate and uh state assembly, but uh being the first ever chiropractor is a pretty amazing thing to be. And I've got friends in other states that are in the same position or have served in their state legislatures, and uh it's kind of a neat uh fellowship that we have, and I'm proud to represent our profession down here in the Capitol.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Well, you beat me to the punch, uh Representative Mosley, because I wanted to congratulate you, despite it being your third term. And I know we spoke about this before, but being the first ever chiropractor to uh serve our state and the legislature is quite an accomplishment. And all of us at the WCA are extremely proud of your efforts and very, very, very much enjoy working with you at the Capitol. So moving forward, as we're going to be going into January here, you know, with uh slimmer Republican majorities in both houses, do you see this session beginning differently in terms of types of issues that you'll be discussing?

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Oh, for sure. And they change. You know, I've seen this just uh, and I touched a little bit on it as well before, but the institutional knowledge, you got all new fresh Faces. I mean, the Democrats, they have 25 new members. Last session, we had 16 new members. I don't even know what the count is, but just the change in personalities and the change and the people that are here and their knowledge base and what they bring to the Capitol changes the dynamics of every single session. But definitely the obvious is when we go from a 64-seat majority to a 54-seat, so we lost 10 seats. That means that we're going to have to do a little bit more to work together. I think it's going to be more imperative that we try to work across the aisle as best we can. We can't do this uh stand out there and basically say, you know what, we have this almost super majority and we're not going to work with you. And honestly, my personality and the way I've worked the whole time I've been here has never really been that way anyway. But um, it's definitely going to make it more challenging for big things like the state budget. If we have five people say, I'm not voting for that state budget, there's too much spending, or they don't like something in that budget, well, we're in trouble. We're in gridlock because we have 54 members, we need 50 votes in order to pass a state budget. So it's possible that we might even end up with a Democrat or two that might have to vote for our state budget in order to pass it on the floor. The uh state Senate is the same situation as us. You know, they had 22 seats out of 33, they now have 18 out of 33. So there's 18 Republicans, 15 Democrats. That's a very tight margin. Last session, the Senate actually had a veto-proof majority. We did not, we were two uh votes short. We were at 64 and needed 66. Um, so it's going to be different how they navigate. And the committee compositions will change a lot. Good example is Joint Committee on Finance. As of when we're recording this, Dr. Chris, we still don't know who is appointed from the assembly side, but on the Senate side, we do know because two of the senators that on the Republican side that were in there, Senator Dewey Strobel and Senator Joan Baldwig, both lost re-election. So there's new faces in there. Actually, both of those two were were replaced with people from kind of my region of the state, northwest Wisconsin, uh, Senator Stashel and Senator Romaine Quinn from Rice Lake, not too far away from me, is on joint committee on finance.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Well, can we talk a little bit more specific about the Assembly Health Committee and what you see as the priorities this session?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, I think the priorities haven't changed a whole lot. You know, my first session, obviously, uh prior to me being the chair of it, I was on the committee. But the first session obviously was focused on COVID um-related issues from COVID uh precautionary stuff to government and some would say overreach, um, but all COVID-related stuff. Last session, we really started to focus more on what we can do for patients in the state of Wisconsin and providers in the state of Wisconsin. We had some big bills that I was hoping that we get across the finish line. Uh, probably the biggest one that got the most press was the advanced practice nursing bill, the APRN bill, had some changes to it this last session, got to the governor's desk. It actually passed the assembly and the Senate, got to the governor's desk and he vetoed it. So I am assuming that one's gonna be coming back again, obviously. Um, we've got a number of bills related to aging long-term care that were in the works last session, but they weren't quite ready for a hearing. I think we're gonna be having hearings on those bills this session as well. But I think the overall tone, people are looking at access, and this hasn't changed over the last decade. We're looking at access and affordability, cost, making sure their insurance companies are transparent and actually um covering what they say they're gonna cover. You know, I can totally get this not only from the provider perspective, but also as a patient perspective, because I have a father of four daughters, uh, recently became a grandfather this summer over a campaign season as well. So yeah. So I know what it's like um to utilize these services as well, but that has just been magnified and gotten worse over the last years as far as the cost. And then there's certain areas of the state, I think even over where you're uh where you actually practice, where we're having some hospital closures and stuff. In Chippo Falls, they lost their uh ER, their hospital that served the Chippo Falls community in Eau Claire, one of our major hospitals, Sacred Heart, uh HSHS, part of the HSHS program uh or system based out of Illinois, they closed up. And we're seeing that becoming more and more of an issue. And what it really ties back to is the reimbursement rate from these insurance companies, from like Medicaid, Medicare, and then even on the private side, what the reimbursing providers. I know what it costs to run my small practice, my small clinic. And I know you know a lot about hospital administration just because of my position in this uh in the assembly as chair of the health committee. But the cost is just going up and up and up for providers, and reimbursement rates are not keeping up with it. Now, I am proud to say I've done budget requests where we have increased provider funding for not just chiropractors, also dentists, speech therapists, uh, audiologist, you name it across the board. Um, but it doesn't keep up with the inflationary costs that we've seen the last two years. And philosophically, I I am not of the belief that expanding Medicaid is the answer. You know, if you have your lowest reimbursor and you just put more people on that, it just does not work. I mean, I uh some of your listeners probably do take Medicaid and Medicare as well. But if I look at my end-of-the-week report in my clinic, if I have too high a percentage of low reimbursement patients, I can't afford to pay what I have to pay my even support staff versus what I paid them five to 10 years ago. So expanding Medicaid is not the answer. Looking at uh more affordable options out there for access and more choice for people. The problem we have now is there's definitely a lot of people that are in that kind of donut hole where they maybe aren't disabled, they uh are able to work, and then we tell them, okay, well, you lose all your benefits, and now you can go out on the Affordable Care Act marketplace and try and buy something. You and I know that those patients, when they go out there, they find the premium not affordable. And when they go to utilize that insurance in our clinics, it doesn't cover very well. A lot of times they have very, very high deductibles or very, very high co-pays. I mean, I run into co-pays that are higher than what my time of service discount is for my patients and my practice.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Hello everyone. I want to tell you about the 2025 Spring Convention, hosted by the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association. This year, we are shortening up the duration to two days and calling it a spring mini convention. Join us Thursday and Friday, April 10th and 11th at the Ingleside Hotel and Water Park in Pewkey, Wisconsin. It's two days packed with educational opportunities that you can use in your practice Monday morning. So save the date now and don't miss this opportunity. Grow, network, and thrive at the 2025 WCA Spring Convention, Thursday and Friday, April 10th and 11th at the Ingleside Hotel and Water Park in Pewkey, Wisconsin. More exciting details regarding topics, speakers, and class times will be posted on the WCA website in January 2025. All right, to go a little bit deeper into the weeds with uh what's going on with the health committee and probably more specific to the state budget. So in chiropractic, last budget cycle, we were granted with higher reimbursement for our examination and for x-ray. We actually are reimbursed the same amount in chiropractic as our colleagues in medicine with medical doctors for their examination and x-rays. Uh, when we see a Medicaid patient prior to that budget cycle, we had an increase in the chiropractic adjustment reimbursement. So those are our great wins. We want to thank all the work that you've done with that, uh, Representative Moses. But we're not done. So at the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association, we would really like to see, let's just say, the third leg of the stool get accomplished, and that's the ability to use our full toolbox when it comes to patient care. So I'm in a multidisciplinary clinic where we have chiropractors, we have physical therapists, all are under one roof. My wife carries a licensed physical therapist, we've been practicing for 34 years. We're both Medicaid and Medicare providers. Uh, there's a huge difference in how we can treat Medicaid uh subscribers. Uh, when it comes to chiropractic, I can do an examination, I can take an x-ray, I can do chiropractic adjustments of the spine and the spine only. When it comes to physical therapy, physical therapists can do an examination. They can then do manual therapy of the spine, but they can also do all the modalities. They can do therapeutic exercise, they can do telehealth, and they can be reimbursed for those procedures. Now, from a chiropractic standpoint, we can do those procedures with our patients, but we're not reimbursed for them. So there's a slippery slope between if we do them and don't charge, that's technically incentivizing the visit. Or if we do those and charge for those services, a lot of our Medicaid subscriber patients just don't have the ways and means to pay for those procedures. What we'd really like to see is not necessarily a scope expansion. That's not what we're asking for, but we're asking for the ability to use our current full toolbox. Do you see that likely to happen in the future in the state of Wisconsin?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

I do, and you know, it's something that obviously is not going to go away as long as I'm here. Um, I've definitely shed light on that the last uh couple of years here, because obviously, as a chiropractic provider, I deal with it day in, day out for the last two decades. But it's something that, you know, I'm gonna continue to have like I plan on having a public hearing on that uh bill or whatever legislation that may come forward to help that. I even thought about this session um having a uh uh educational hearing or an informational hearing to bring light to it because it is unfair. We're not able to practice to the full extent of our scope, to the full extent of what we're licensed and trained to do. And then I see what reimbursement rates are for other providers doing identical, exact same services as us, and it's very, very frustrating. So bringing that to light and making sure my legislative colleagues understand what it is because I don't think they do. I mean, very few of them are gonna look at their EOB uh from their insurance company and say, wow, I went to the PT a couple of years ago and they did this. And I I love PTs, so I'm not picking on PTs just like you. I actually worked before I had my own practice. I worked in a multidisciplinary clinic right out of chiropractic school. So I have a great understanding and appreciation for what it is our physical therapist counterparts do. But you know, it is unfair that they can do manipulation-like techniques, get reimbursed for it, and then we have to stick to just adjustment of the spine. And we're trained to do all these different modalities and all this other stuff. And you know, I know I'm just repeating what you said as well, but to answer your question, Dr. Chris, no, as long as I'm here, I want to make sure it'll bring light to it. And the WCA has this has been one of their legislative goals the whole time I've been here. So I'd like to actually see it move somewhere and do something. And to be honest, this is one of those issues that is not so partisan. So even though we do have a governor who's a different party than myself, this is one of those areas that we might be able to find some common ground and work on. Um, because it's not a Republican idea or a Democrat idea that one provider should get paid more than the other. Truth be told, the big issue is the legislative, the lobbyists, or as they like to be called, advocates for these different professions. But you look at how they're protecting their territory and how they're protecting their own pocketbook. And I see through that. I mean, I know what's going on, but that's the amount of resources, time, and money that is spent to lobby and advocate to not only myself, but my legislative colleagues on some of these issues is crazy. And it's even more at the federal level, but we see it at the state level and uh lobbyists in our building as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Well, I'm very much looking forward to coming to Madison and John Murray and I and other members of our legislative committee meeting with your legislative colleagues to again educate them on, I guess what I would say, what we feel is fair and right in the state of Wisconsin so that Medicaid subscribers have the ability to choose chiropractic and get all the services that they need and deserve. So thank you very much. I appreciate all the support there.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

It's great to see uh you guys come down and advocate and talk to my colleagues and this and that. And I will say it's been incredibly effective. We all remember the days of the fax machine, and we've all heard the stories of the chiropractors from the WCA bombarding the Capitol with faxes uh back in the day. Um, but I will also say probably the most effective thing or the most impactful thing I've made for our profession in my time being here is just answering simple questions because it's like no one, it's really not any different than any other workplace where my coworkers, my legislative colleagues will come up and ask, Hey, do you guys treat this? Do you do this? And uh, can a chiropractor help with this? And it's those basic things that you and I would say, well, yeah, of course we treat that. We know how to fix that, but people don't know. And it's uh legislators are no different than the general public when you start going across the state of Wisconsin and beyond. But they'll ask me, Do you guys treat plantar fasciis or do you treat this and that? Yeah, I see a lot of that in my practice. Don't know if I can help you for sure, but we need to set up an exam. And I I make a lot of referrals to local and uh shouldn't just say local, uh chiropractors across the state because my legislative colleagues come from all corners of the state as well. So that's the other really cool thing about uh being in this position is all the great colleagues I've met from our profession across Wisconsin that I would have never met before, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

That is very cool. All right, Representative Moses. What most people don't know is it's at the time of this recording, it's after nine o'clock on a Tuesday night. You're already in your office in Madison, or I should say you're still in your office in Madison. Tell me, what's on your schedule tomorrow morning?

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Well, I'm gearing up. Obviously, I'm down here for a bunch of meetings. So we have caucus meetings tomorrow and then also Thursday. Uh, we're scheduled for, I believe, somewhere between 16 and 20 hours of caucus meetings. However, I'm going to be sneaking away from the caucus meeting for a little bit, not when we're having healthcare policy discussion, obviously, but when I get an opportunity, maybe on my lunch break, I have to head down to DSPS, the agency, because at the time of this recording, uh, we're prior to the December 14th deadline for your license renewal. And the one and only Representative Clint Moses does not have his license renewed yet because DSPS has been having glitches and issues with their software system, just like they did two years ago when we also had to renew. So I know a lot of my chiropractic colleagues have reached out with frustration and issues with their own. So I am going to head down to the agency and see if anyone's down there tomorrow. And I've got a couple good contacts there. So I do want to work with these people. I want to try and improve it. You know, obviously, this is a big deal because I do still want to be able to practice. So I've got my continuing education and all that stuff done. It should be a pretty quick and simple thing, but uh, I've been unable to access my account like many of you. So um I will be working not only in my behalf, but also on all of you, uh, your behalf, to try and get this DSPS thing streamlined and better next time around. So thanks for asking, though, Dr. Chris. Should be the highlight of my day.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Sounds good. You're fighting the good fight for chiropractic. Well, I'll tell you what, we're gonna wrap this up. Dr. Clint Moses practicing in Menominee, Wisconsin, and also Representative Clint Moses, Assembly District in Western Wisconsin, the Menominee and Eau Claire area. On behalf of the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association, I just want to thank you for everything you're doing for your patience, what you're doing for chiropractic, and also what you're doing for all residents of the state of Wisconsin. Thanks a lot, Clint. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Yeah, thanks, Chris, for having me on here. And this is something we definitely should do again. Um, I know it took probably about six months in the making between everybody's schedule and campaigns and everything else, but uh it was a lot of fun and I look forward to continuing to work with the WCA this session and beyond. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Fantastic. Thank you. Hey everyone, if you enjoyed this podcast, you can find more episodes of the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association podcast back to basics. Just go to the WCA website, click on the about page, and you'll find a number of engaging interviews with all sorts of chiropractors from the state of Wisconsin, chiropractors that are new to practice and are willing to share what got them started, and chiropractors that have been in practice for 25 years and beyond, they are all here to share what they have been through to get them to where they are today. On another note, if you are considering becoming a member of the WCA, I would like to emphasize at the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association, we're here for chiropractors like you, working to make a difference in our communities. With a thriving membership, the WCA provides educational seminars that empower you with the latest insights in clinical practice. We also provide our help desk, which helps your insurance and business-related questions. When it comes to what's happening at the Capitol, the WCA helps defend and support chiropractic at the legislative level, ensuring that your voice is heard where it matters most. By joining the WCA, you're not just supporting yourself, you're supporting chiropractic in Wisconsin and nationwide. Join the Wisconsin Chiropractic Association today and be part of a community that's advancing chiropractic care for the future.