Life of a Dr Wife
Behind the white coat is a partner and a family. Listen to the unfiltered chaos, love, and adventure.
Life of a Dr Wife
PA vs DR: Different Roads to the White Coat
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In today’s episode, I’m sitting down with my older sister, Meghan, to talk all about her journey becoming a Physician Assistant / Physician Associate and how her path compares.
We dive into the real differences between the PA and physician routes. From schooling, clinical training, work-life balance, to the day-to-day realities that people don’t always see behind the white coat. As sisters, this conversation is honest, unfiltered, and full of perspectives from both sides of medicine.
And of course… we end with a hot-topic debate: Should PAs and Residents receive the same salary? Meghan shares her thoughts, and let’s just say… this conversation gets interesting.
Whether you’re in healthcare, considering PA school or med school, or just curious about the differences between these professions, this episode gives an inside look into two very different paths with one shared goal.
I’m so glad you’re here 🫶🏻
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Hey guys, welcome back to the Life of a Doctor's Wife. Today's episode is really special. I'm sitting down with my sister Megan to talk about all things PA. We will be answering some of your questions that you guys even submitted on social media. If you've been following along, you've heard somewhat about our journey through med school. But today I wanted to sit down with Meg to talk about physician assistant or associate versus doctor. I think there are a number of people who debate PA school versus med school. So let's jump into it. Meg, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. So let's start by talking a little bit about yourself and how you got to be a PA.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I was definitely interested in the medical field in middle school and high school. I just didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. I was really good at science and I liked math, and I was kind of into more of the STEM professions. Uh, and with our mom being an APRN, I was headed more towards like NP versus PA versus doctor. Um, and so I entered a three plus three program at Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences in Boston, Massachusetts. And so I did my three years of undergrad there and then three years of PA school consecutively. And then after graduation, I got my first job as a hospitalist. Um, and I work at a level one trauma center in Connecticut, and I've kind of been there ever since.
SPEAKER_01Someone asked, what is the difference between a PA and a doctor? And did you apply to both programs?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a good question. So the main difference between a PA and a doctor is more your training, right? So a doctor does four years of medical school and then does a residency, you know, in some specialties, you go further than that. For most PAs, you would do undergrad and then uh go into a PA program. And as a practicing PA, you have a supervising physician. So um we do have a lot of autonomy in our job, but we are definitely working in like a team-based model.
SPEAKER_01So would you be able to operate your own private practice like a doctor?
SPEAKER_00No. So um if I wanted to work anywhere, I'd have to work with a supervising physician. And that can sometimes vary from state to state, but generally speaking, you know, that's how it works.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. I just realized that the other day. I think is it Washington State? One state is like PAs. I think that because there is a lack of doctors or supervising physicians, that PAs can like open like a family practice by themselves. Yeah, there's wild.
SPEAKER_00Definitely like a lot of legislation and a lot of lobbying happening across multiple states. I know when I was in school, we did a lot of lobbying in Massachusetts for more autonomous practice for PAs, which I think, you know, there's really a place for that.
SPEAKER_01So, what really made you pick PA and not medical school? Because I know you didn't apply to both.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I only applied to PA schools. Um, I actually was in a combined program. So I went six years through undergrad and grad school in a three plus three program. A lot of PA schools are generally four plus two or three plus three. Um, I did not apply to medical school. I I really wasn't interested at the time. Um, I really wanted to get education from like a general perspective and become a general practitioner. Um and I really love that as a PA, you don't have to specialize. So throughout my life, I can move into different specialties and continue to learn um as I grow up and as my life changes. Um, I just didn't see as much flexibility in that, you know, as a physician having to pick a specialty for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_01No, definitely.
SPEAKER_00I think that is huge, especially being like the female provider too, a little bit, not being stereotypical, but a lot of times, like if you did want to go part-time or things like that, like at least you have that flexibility to drop down to something else that's not hospitalist or like Yeah, I I definitely knew that I wanted to prioritize a family at some point, and so it didn't make sense for me to go to four years of medical school if I knew that I maybe wanted to be per diem for a couple years while I was raising my kids. So that's kind of what drove me towards PA. I also thought when I was going to PA school that I wanted to do surgery, and so that was like really a big push for me to go to PA school because you can get that surgical experience without, you know, doing all those years of residency and fellowship and that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think this kind of ties into that a little bit. I think I've mentioned before that like our mom is an APRN, but someone asks, what's the difference between a PA and an APRN? And are the roles different?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's really interesting. Um in my job, uh we all practice together. We're called advanced practice providers. So whether you're an APRN or a PA, we actually do the exact same job. And a lot of times I forget titles are for my coworkers because we're the same type of practitioner. Um, but definitely the way that you are educated and kind of the model that they use and the experience that each provider has is different NP versus PA. So NPs generally, you know, they are nurses first and they learn in the nursing model. And for PAs, we follow the medical model, which is a little bit more in line with physicians. And so I think there are definite specialties in which you will see a separation between NPs and PAs. And I think that gap is really has been closing over the last couple of years, in my own experience. But generally speaking, you know, at the start of time for PAs, it was very surgical-based and very like internal medicine-based. And so I really thought when I went to PA school that I wanted to do surgery, and that's what really pushed me, and our mom really pushed me um towards PA school over like APRN. Uh because a lot of times the PAs spend a lot of time in the OR in comparison to NPs. Not to say that NPs are never in the OR. I have friends who go into the OR who are nurse practitioners, but um, it just seemed like the right role for me. I also knew that I didn't want to be a bedside nurse. The APRN just didn't line up with the type of schooling that I was doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I guess hindsight, now knowing what you wanted and where you are today, would you go back and do PA school again? Like, or sorry, let me like rephrase that. Because like I'm sure, like David says, he never wants to repeat medical school as much as he loves it. Like, I'm sure you don't want to go back and relive PA school. But would you have gone the route of a PA, or would you have chosen like NP now because you didn't want surgery or become a doctor, I guess?
SPEAKER_00No, I love being a PA. I would never change it. Um, I really have no interest in going to medical school. I do think a lot about residency or like a fellowship, um, which are offered to PAs. There are some awesome programs throughout the country. Um, and so though that's kind of more my mindset. But if I were to do it again, I would be a PA a hundred times over. Um and I'd actually do PA school again. Really? Yeah, I love, I mean, I loved learning. I I hated the testing and like the gruelingness of it, but like I met lifelong friends there. I would do it all over again.
SPEAKER_01That's crazy. Like, yeah, thinking back, like I would do the social aspect of med school, but maybe we're too fresh off med school that I'm a little bit like I'm good.
SPEAKER_00There's something in the money. Yeah, there's something about the grind. Like, you work so hard for and you like grind with your people, and then you like have those moments to celebrate, and then you kind of like go back into it. I mean, I couldn't do it for the rest of my life, but if I had to do it again, like if someone would pay me to do it again, I'd pay you to do it.
SPEAKER_01What inspired you to pursue medicine?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a really good question. It's funny because when I went through a lot of interviews and like practice for PA school, everyone said, Oh, why do you want to be a PA? And I would use the things that everyone used. Oh, I want to have a family, so I want the flexibility or you know, work in a team or you know, things that people say, which is all true, but I never realized how much mom really inspired me to go into medicine. And I think growing up as kids, we both of our parents are in medicine um in different aspects. Our dad was trained as a respiratory therapist, and our mom was a trauma nurse and then became a neurotrauma APRN. And so there is just this like safety in the house growing up, where if someone got hurt or there's something wrong, I always felt like they knew what to do. They were never gonna panic. And I think so much of my subconscious like really loved that. And so now, like practicing as a PA, I realize how much of it like almost calms my anxiety because I always know what's going on from like a medical perspective, and also I knew that I wanted to have kids in the future, and the thought of like being able to like save my kids. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01That's kind of crazy that you say that because like it was never something that crossed my mind. But now that I think back to it, it's like, oh yeah, we'd be driving down the highway, and the amount of times our parents pulled over to like pull someone else out of the car and like save their life is crazy. Yeah. Um, but then again, I never really felt that anxiety, I think, because once I met David, like I always knew he was here to kind of take care of anything. Like it never really dawned on me or made me anxious. I made me more anxious being in the moment and seeing the gushing blood or something else that I was like, nope, this isn't for me. Yeah. But yeah, that's kind of crazy from that perspective of like for you that you are like, oh, it's almost like a safety net versus me being like and I never realized that until I like really started working that that I think that was like my underlying goal. Yeah, I think that's great. What is one common misconception about PAs?
SPEAKER_00I think one of the biggest ones is the name physician assistant, right? And uh again, as far as legislation and all of that goes, we're moving towards physician associate, and the AAPA has recognized physician associate, so we start to use that more. But like my badge at work still says physician assistant. So it takes time for these things to evolve and improve. Um, but that's the biggest thing that I get a lot like, well, am I gonna talk to the doctor today? Or um like, oh, you're just the assistant to the physician. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Little do they know you can prescribe meds. Exactly. Although me on the other end of things, who works in a healthcare related office but remotely, who has no healthcare training, gets asked to like put in meds all the time, and I'm like, I'm sorry to the patient. Like, I have to triage the provider first, like, no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It the the assistant thing definitely people get confused by. Um, I think also me being a female, I walk into the room all the time and they're like, Oh, my nurse is here. I should I have to go if they're like talking to their family member or something. I'm like, no, I'm actually your provider.
SPEAKER_01You won't be seeing the doctor today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh, I say that like at least once a day. What did you do to prepare for PA school? Did you do any research? Yeah. So I mean, part of the PA school process is having clinical hours. I definitely did a lot of shadowing uh to really make sure that going to PA school was what I wanted. Um, and you know, I was really lucky. I had connections with mom who got me into uh the hospital that they worked at to shadow with some PAs through like high school and college. Um clinically, I worked as a PCA, so I did home care and I also worked at a rehab, which is really good experience. I would say I tell a lot of my PA students to really, if you can work in a hospital, I think you see so much and you get so much exposure. Um, I was in like a kind of like a skilled nursing facility, and then obviously home care in people's homes. And I just wish that I had a little bit more experience than I guess some of my other peers. But I will say I work in an inpatient setting, so I probably feel like that because I do work inpatient. I think maybe if I worked in an office, I wouldn't feel that strongly about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I guess my other question for you would be like you were lucky enough to have mom or dad or other connections, but for that one person who's pursuing P A N P D O M D programs that wants to do shadowing hours as a provider, what do you recommend their best bet to like find that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so if you're you know currently enrolled in school, a lot of the like alumni networks through the schools can help you connect with practicing providers who can give you some shadowing hours. Um, additionally, a lot of people hit me up on LinkedIn. They'll like chat me and see, ask me if they can shadow. Um, and I'm always like willing to take people. Wow, you check your LinkedIn DMs. Rarely, but when I do, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Slide into the DMs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, slide into advanced practice providers DMs. And I think on that note too, like, even if you're interested in PA school, I think shadowing doctors, shadowing NPs, shadowing PAs, even shadowing nurses can really give you a good overview of how it works to work in a team. Because every day I'm working with NPs, pharmacists, nurses, doctors, all these people. Um, and so even if you're really interested in PA school, but you can only get in with an NP or a doctor or um, you know, a pharmacist or something, I I do think that there is some value there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Okay, when you said slide into the DMs for LinkedIn, I have to add this one little point. Do you remember when you got your LinkedIn and you hit a friend request thinking that you were friend requesting your brother-in-law, but instead friend requested my father-in-law?
SPEAKER_00Yes. I still accidentally text the wrong person sometimes.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I know there's a reason why he's in my phone as his name, and my husband is in my phone as hubby and will forever be in there as hubby because I will I refuse.
SPEAKER_00Your father-in-law is doctor in my thing, but now that like doesn't work. Yeah, see? So I'm gonna have to change it.
SPEAKER_01I know, and his grandfather is technically a doctor, too. So what are we gonna do? Anyways, that's why we will not be naming our kid the fourth. What advice or tips do you have for someone starting PA school this upcoming year?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, that's a good one. I would definitely say enjoy your time before you start. I a lot of people are working. I think it's really easy to burden yourself out before you start. And kind of what we were alluding to before, when you get into PA school, it is a full-time job. You have exams, you're studying, you're acclimating to maybe a big move if you're going to somewhere, a school far away, or you know, you're just acclimating to the change in in schedule and caliber of what you're doing. So take the time for yourself before you kind of dive into that. You have to find your study group. And I will be the first one to tell you that my first study group did not work for me, and that's okay. And it's okay to tell people that like your studying just doesn't really align. Um, I had to go out on a limb and ask a girl who did cadaver lab with me, who I would say hi to every morning, but never talked to in my life. But I thought that maybe we'd be like a good match uh from a studying perspective if she would study antibiotics with me. And now we have this like lifetime friendship. Shout out Kate Meyer. And so her and I studying together changed the complete trajectory of my PA school experience and success as a student.
SPEAKER_01Kate Meyer allowed you to pass PA school.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, literally. I used to stay up till like one in the morning, and Kate used to tell me, Megan, after six o'clock, we're gonna have a glass of wine and then we're gonna go home and sleep, and you're gonna do fine. And I went from getting like 80s to like 97s. So have maybe that's another tidbit. Have a glass of wine.
SPEAKER_01I know it's kind of crazy because like there's you who are like, oh, you need your person to study with. And I know that that's so common for other people as well for their study groups and whatnot. But for David, he constantly had to study alone. Like, if he didn't study alone, it almost stressed him out that he was like wasting time. And he unfortunately, the reason why we are now sitting on the new couch is because his butt was planted into the seat of our old couch because he would study on our couch with his laptop, reading through PowerPoints and things while watching sports, football, whatever. Like I could never ever sit on a couch and study, let alone watching sports and studying. But for him, that's what worked. And at when he first started medical school, I won't never forget, he had a desk and we bought him a nice chair and all these things for him to study in an office space. I think he spent a week or two weeks in there, had the worst tests of his life. As soon as he moved to the couch, he was doing 10 times better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great point. I think you have to find your study habits, and whether that's by yourself, with a group, you know, I had different study habits by which class I was taking. You know, in pharmacology, I would really work on like studying all of the drugs on my own and then come together and like quiz each other. Um, it really depends on what works best for you. And part of your first semester of PA school is really kind of trying to dig through what that looks like. And that might change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely add, like, although David was like a solo studier by himself when it did come to like practicals or the patient encounters, he would always practice like on me the night before or like leading up to the exam. So if you don't have a spouse or somebody at home, then maybe that's a good time to like utilize someone else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think really trying to figure out what your strengths are. My strength was always if I verbally taught it to someone, I retained it better. Where for other people it might be if I write it down, I retain it better. So maybe they're making the study guides and then copying them for other people so that they have them, and then I'm reading it over and teaching it out loud. You know, you have to find ways to cut down on the time that you need. And so, however you figure out the best way to study is what's going to make you most successful. And use the people around you, use the strengths that you know others have.
SPEAKER_01Now, this isn't a question here, but I am just curious about this. Is like David said, coming into DO school, he was shocked at the amount of people that were there to like help each other succeed. He was like, I almost thought it was gonna be like almost this like fight to like see who who was better than the other, where he was like, People were building study guys and sending them out to everyone else to be like, here, use this, like you really wanted everyone with you to succeed. And I guess, did you find that in PA school as well?
SPEAKER_00100%. Everyone is so accommodating and helpful. Um, and it really felt like we were all reaching towards the same goal. You know, once you're in PA school, you're not competing against each other. Yeah, you're all just trying to pass, you're all just trying to make it through. The people in the room with you in your PA class know what you're going through the most, right? Like your family understands and your other friends, based on what you tell them, they might understand, but the people who are going through it with you understand. So if you can help to build each other up, that's really helpful. We had like someone in our class who would do quizlets and share them or study guides. Hockey cars. I was, yeah, I was always willing to share my study guides with people because the way that I was studying was helping me, and so why not share those with people if it's gonna help them too?
SPEAKER_01If someone wants to pursue PA school but is afraid of cadaver labs, what advice do you have to get them through it?
SPEAKER_00There are some PA schools that do not have cadaver lab, and I interestingly enough feel like more and more programming. Are moving away from it. Maybe they just don't have the capabilities or the bodies. Yeah, I don't know. Um, I was so fortunate to do a cadaver lab and it really helped me. And I still think about it now, five years later, when I'm, you know, palpating a leg or something and trying to figure out what's going on with someone. Um, it really gave me like a photographic visual in my head of like what the body looks like. I think it's normal to be uncomfortable. Um for me, the first day is definitely nerve-wracking because you've never been in there. And I think for a lot of people, spiritually, like being in a room with a bunch of dead bodies is really overwhelming. I just tried to focus on the task at hand, right? I'm going in, I'm going to do X job, this is how it's gonna go, and then I'm gonna leave. And I think the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
SPEAKER_01So, question for those people who have never been in it, I may cut this out. When you unzip the body bag, okay, is the patient cadaver body? Cadaber, yeah. Are they fully naked? Yeah, with not nothing on them.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes, like I wanna say I'm like going back a couple years, but I wanna say like the heads were wrapped, but I could be wrong. But yeah, no, they're naked. So actually, so I went to a Mass College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences in Boston, and we had a like agreement with Harvard Medical School where we would do our cadavers at Harvard, and so we had our own lab that was just for us. So I think we had eight cadavers, and we would kind of rotate on them. Um, so I was I had to actually dissect like four dissections in in a small group with like two of you or four of you, and then you would kind of go around and and do them. Um but Harvard, if you ever are thinking about you know donating your body to science, they do such a beautiful job with their cadavers. So before we start, we have like a whole ceremony to like thank the donors for their bodies. Um and at the end, I believe it was at the end, they told us like their cause of death and like things about them. Um and I can't remember if it was in the beginning or the end. I have a terrible memory. I think it was at the end. Well, I in the beginning or the end, like the family writes a letter, and so it was optional, but we read letters from some families, but I just don't remember if that was at the beginning or at the end. I think it might have been at the beginning. Um, but I think it's really important to see different bodies, right? Because people like look different, and we were fortunately, unfortunately, like it's really sad case, but it's way more interesting to see a younger body because the vasculature and the muscles are just so much more robust. Um, and so we had like a young patient with cancer, and then we had like another patient who was like very obese, so you have a lot of like adipose tissue and things like that, or we had like a little old lady who had a lot of cancer, but like seeing a uterus that is postmenopausal and premenopausal are like really yeah interesting. We were told to like switch, so I remember like the older woman who had cancer. I did her liver, like abdomen dissection, and then I did like a vascular dissection on a different guy, um, which is a really cool experience because it vasculature looks so different on different people, right? Yeah. So being able to identify that's really important. Not to mention, we were being tested on these patients. They would literally put a pin in something. So you needed to know every single body. So we would go in there and just like go through all the different bodies to figure out what it all.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so David would have the tests on the bodies too, where they would put the pins in them and they would have to go around to all of the bodies, but like the main body that he dissected himself was was always his. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Now we kind of moved around.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This is gonna be one of your favorite questions.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01How did you find your people in PA school?
SPEAKER_00This is the best question. It's really funny because I remember going to orientation and you know, they separate you by table. And I remember meeting my like group of people separately and just thinking to myself, like, these people are so cool. Like, I want to be friends with these people. I was an internal student, so I was friends with a lot of people that I went to undergrad with, and my group of people now are all externals. And kind of going back to that whole study group thing, I really had to kind of reevaluate how I was studying. Um, and when I met Kate, Kate was kind of already in that friend friend group. And long story short, they really like pulled me in to their friend group, and I'm like, we'll be forever grateful to them for that. Um, and now we have this like cross-country friend group that has lasted the last eight years. Oh my god. And it's been like a really, really beautiful thing. We are kind of in our wedding and baby season right now, so everybody's getting married and having kids, and it's been so nice to watch everybody grow.
SPEAKER_01And what are some ways that you found to unwind in PA school?
SPEAKER_00I think going back to finding your people is really important. So I really had this awesome friend group where a lot of us studied separately from each other. Um, we had like kind of multiple study groups within the same group. Um, but we always made sure that we had a lot of fun. And like I said, the people that are in PA school with you know what you're going through the most. And so we were really able to kind of unwind and have fun together. Um, we were went to school in Boston, so you know, go out to the bars, get a drink. Sometimes we'd stay and have a movie night. We'd have like huge friends givings, and it was really fun.
SPEAKER_01I know a lot of your PA school friends were married during PA school. How did they manage PA school with their spouse? Like, did they live with them? Did they live far away? That sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so actually a mix. So um, a few of my friends, their husbands lived with them, like moved with them when they got into PA school. Kate, um, my best friend, she lived long distance from her husband for three years, which I still think is so amazing that they were able to do that. I can't even imagine. Um, and he would come out and visit a lot, which was super fun. But PA school is one of those things where a lot of times you only get into, you know, one or two schools. And the reputation that MCPHS had being in the Longwood Medical Area really spoke to Kate, not to speak for her, but I think that's really what pushed her, you know, to live long distance for a couple years.
SPEAKER_01So then some of your husbands did they live with them and then find new jobs or commute or found new jobs. Um so it's very similar, I guess, to medical school in the sense of like three years versus four years. Some of the spouses do live with them, where some of the spouses do do long distance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and my school is a little bit of an anomaly because they have a three plus three program on the Boston campus. So the internals do three years of undergrad and three years of grad school, but the grad school is three years. So if you're coming as an external, you're doing three years of PA school. More traditionally, it is like 24 months, so two years and then you're done after doing four years of undergrad. So it really goes fast. I mean, I was not in a long distance relationship in PA school, so I can't speak to how hard that is. I can't imagine. Um, but I think if you're young, it's like a fun two-year thing to do if you can find a job somewhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. For us, we moved to Lynchburg, Virginia. Finding a job in Lynchburg, Virginia was not easy. Right. Yeah. And I was in Boston. That was a common theme for a lot of the other spouses, unfortunately, in our area. Did you have any time off during PA school and were you able to relax or have a break?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So kind of going back to the like four plus two versus three plus three or just the grad school portion of PA school, a lot of the traditional programs are 24 months all year round. So you're going 24 months nonstop. The program that I went to was three years, and you had your first two summers off. So you would do a fall semester, spring semester, summer off, fall semester, spring semester, and then one full year through, starting in that summer. And so for me, it kind of just felt like a continuation of undergrad because I was doing two semesters and then a break, which was really nice. I really liked it. And I think for some people who need that like mental break, considering a program that's three years long might work for you. For other people, some people are like, I'd rather just put my head down and do it for 24 months and be done. I think it all comes down to how you study. If you can, you know, try to stop studying. I think there's a point where if you don't know it, you don't know it. And so staying up till three in the morning and then being sleep deprived for your 8 a.m. exam doesn't really make a lot of sense. And I had to kind of learn that the hard way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What advice do you have for PA students embarking on rotations?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, rotations are so fun. I think that going off onto rotations, of course, can be nerve-wracking because you're coming out of didactics and you're not really knowing what to expect. But this is where it kind of all starts to come together. And I feel like that's where I really started learning what it looks like to actually practice. And you feel you kind of have imposter syndrome, but you feel like you're really a PA. As far as advice goes, I would say keep an open mind. There are people who go into PA school saying I'm going to be an orthopedic surgeon. I don't really care about anything else. And that works for some people. Go off, you know, that's great. But keeping an open mind and seeing what's out there is really helpful. Start to see, am I a night person? Am I a day person? Do can I do a 12-hour shift? Or am I really more, do I function better doing eight-hour shifts? Uh, do I like having the three days off by doing, you know, 12-hour shifts? Can I do a 24? Can I switch between days and nights? Um, all of that, like scheduling things, you don't realize the toll it takes on your body. And I realized very quickly that I was not a night person, but that I really liked 12s. I liked having that change in, you know, three, maybe three 12s in a row and then having four days off. Sometimes in rotations, you know, they're working you a little bit harder, so you're not seeing that break as much, but seeing how you do with that is helpful. And then making as many connections as you can. You never know what job's gonna come out of your rotations. And really, my job search really kind of revolved around my rotations because I came out in COVID, so there was limited options.
SPEAKER_01I think that's some great advice. What is something you wish someone told you before PA school?
SPEAKER_00Maybe like trust the process. I feel like I say that to a lot of students now. Like, trust the process, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna feel hard in the moment, but it's gonna go fast and you're gonna be better for it in the end. But these people, you know, your professors and your mentors and the classes above you are all there to help you be successful. So just trust the process, you're gonna be fine.
SPEAKER_01I think that's great. I think that's could be used in any healthcare profession across the board. Yeah, for sure. Everyone celebrates the white coat, but no one talks about the sacrifices it takes to get there. What are some sacrifices you had to make along the way?
SPEAKER_00I think it was probably a little bit easier for me just because I had family and healthcare, so they knew what the grind looked like. And I was single, I didn't have kids, so I kind of just had to worry about myself. But, you know, there's holidays that you don't get home for. I remember I spent like a Thanksgiving, I think, up in the city, but you make the best of it with your friends and you have a great time. And like that was one of my favorite Thanksgivings. I definitely felt the shift coming out of undergrad when I was in PA school to my friends who had graduated in undergrad and doing their like nine to five job and then going out and asking me to come out, and I just did not have the time or the energy to do so. But I think that was worth it in the end.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, absolutely. I see that sometimes too because David and I have talked about this. I think even on a previous podcast, is like it is hard sometimes, especially with social media, to see friends traveling and buying a house or being in a house and buying a new car and all these things. And I'm 26, 27 years old, still in school. But your time will come, and now, like sitting in our own house, I think we've looked at each other multiple times over the last week and been like, this is the best, like we needed this. This was our time, and like just how good it feels now to finally be there, but knowing that like what we were doing was what we needed to do, yeah, to get here. Absolutely. What year of PA school was the most challenging for you and why?
SPEAKER_00I would say the first year of didactic. Again, just kind of settling in and figuring out what works for you. Once you get into the grind, I mean it's a grind, but you you get through it quicker. And I think too, you're meeting new people, you're in a new place, you're trying to figure out how to study. I think everyone kind of goes in thinking that it's going to be an extension of undergrad, and it and it's not, it's a completely different ball game. I think for a lot of people in undergrad, you know, you have maybe five classes and two labs, and that's like a heavy load. And but you're only in class like three times a day with a lab, maybe, you know, in PA school, you're grinding eight to five a lot of times, and that's not even in counting your studying. So on the topic of applying to PA school or preparing to look for, you know, PA schools, I talk a lot to my shadowing students and prospective PA students about what they should be looking for. And I don't think that it's like a one size fits all. There's a lot of different programs, a lot of ways that they are built, and you really have to take all of that into account. So looking at how long the program is, we've talked a lot about three plus three and two plus two, or sorry, three three plus three or four plus two. Um two plus two, sign me up. I know. Where's the two plus two? Uh looking at that, a lot of these PA schools are moving away from a traditional model and going more towards modules. So I was in a program that was more traditional. So your classes first year are like pathophys, um, pharmacology, bio, anatomy, that sort of thing. And then in your second year or like later, you're doing your like um therapeutics, clin med, all of those classes. The modules now, which a lot of my PA students who rotate with me have kind of explained, is it's by body system. So you're doing all of those classes by body system. So maybe you start with cardio and PUM, and now you're doing therapeutics, clin, pathophys, pharmacology for just cardiology and PUM. I can't really speak to you like which one is better. And I think it really depends on the person that you are. I think I would have struggled with the modules a little bit because so many things interconnect and like cross over. So being able to see each subject rather than each body system would have helped me. I think David's was module though, right? For his program?
SPEAKER_01I don't even know because they have switched up it so much. So like even what David's class had, the class after him is like different. Like they do most of their anatomy book work basically before they even get onto campus. Oh, interesting. So, like there's like these online modules that they have to do prior to orientation, and then they get in and then they dive right into cadavers, and then they do like OMM breakup, and then which like maybe having cadaver lab and then OMM is helpful in that. Like, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think you know, getting on campus, talking to active, you know, PA students who are there, seeing what their program offers, the timeline of it, make sure they're accredited. That is like my biggest thing I can tell you. Um, I would be worried to be in a program that was on probation or not accredited. Um, because it can affect your eligibility to take your boards. So ARC PA, go online, look it up, see if they're accredited. If they're accredited, it usually says when they're accredited through. Um looking at that, looking at class size, you know, my my program was 100 students. That's pretty big for a PA school. Um, I loved it, but maybe someone needs a smaller size, you know? And that those hundred people in general, most of your classes are all 100 of us in the same room at the same time. We're not really split up, I think except for like physical exam lab or something. So just things to think about.
SPEAKER_01How did you decide what specialty you wanted to pursue after PA school?
SPEAKER_00That's a really good question because I went into PA school thinking I wanted to do surgery and I did my surgery rotation and I realized I never wanted to step foot in an R ever again. And I'm gonna kick myself for saying that now because maybe I will 10 years from now, but I really didn't enjoy it. I loved putting the puzzle pieces of medicine together. Um the hospice position that I found was also not at the top of my list. Um I love kids and I always thought I wanted to do pediatrics, but when I came out of school, it just wasn't really coming together. We were in COVID, people weren't really going to the doctor at that point, and the um outpatient centers were really not hiring very much. Um and then I loved cognitive behavioral neurology. I was really all over the place. Um, and then when I was kind of struggling to get a job because of the pandemic, um, I was offered the hospitalist position and I said to myself, oh, okay, you know, it's general medicine. I'm gonna see a lot, I'm gonna be exposed to a lot, I'll just figure out what I what I like. And I'll go there for a year or two and then I'll leave. And here I am five years later, still in hospital medicine. And every time I think about, you know, what would I what might I do in the next 10 years or in the next five years or in the next two years? I I can't come up with any other specialty. I love hospital medicine so much.
SPEAKER_01I know I was gonna ask you, if you were to ever leave internal medicine, what specialty or clinic would you move to?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I still kind of have in my heart that I would love to do pediatrics. Um, my only hospitalist rotation was actually pediatric hospitalist rotation uh that I loved. Um, but I don't know, I don't know if I could ever specialize. Like a lot of my friends from who are hospitalists as new grads went to GI or Derm or trauma or, you know, other specialties.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. Now, as someone who interviews future PA students, what is one piece of advice you have for someone going into a PA school interview?
SPEAKER_00I think the biggest thing, which is gonna sound so cliche, is try to shake off your nerves as much as you can. I can tell immediately who is scared out of their mind and who is like appropriately nervous, right? As we are, for lack of a better term, adjudicating you in your eligibility and how good of a fit you might be for the school, you're also almost like interviewing the school, right? It has to be a good fit for you so that you can be successful. So go into the interview with that confidence that you have what it takes to be successful there. Um and then I some people just go in kind of on the other spectrum of that as super, super cocky and like entitled. And that really just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, no matter what you say. So I think. Just trying to go in like very neutral, you know, middle of the road, you'll you'll be more successful that way.
SPEAKER_01No, I think that's great advice because I think it's so easy to get into in your head, but then you don't want to become overly like, oh, I got this. Right. You know, right.
SPEAKER_00And half the time they're just looking to see that you're, you know, a good person. Yeah, that you're normal, that you're a good person, that you have good a good personality and you have good speaking skills, and that you appear and speak to how ready you are to enter a program like this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's really all that it is. They're not gonna know everything that's going on, you know, in your mind.
SPEAKER_01I want to take a quick break to share something with you guys that I've generally been loving lately. If you followed me for a while, you know I'm all about being comfortable, especially in this season of life. And honestly, comfort has become my go-to for that. I wear my comfort lounge sets for everything, like lounging at home, running out for a quick grocery trip, throwing something on when I don't want to think too hard about an outfit. It just works. And during pregnancy, when nothing feels comfortable and you just want to be in something soft and easy. This was one of the only things I consistently reached for. It's cozy without feeling sloppy, and I still feel a little put together, even on the most low energy days. Their sweatshirts are probably my favorite. I grab one constantly. It's one of those pieces you don't even have to think about. You just throw it on and you're good. Whether you're traveling, going for a walk, or lounging at home, it is truly my go-to. If you want to try it for yourself, I have a link for you guys in the show notes where you can shop all their apparel, accessories, and even blankets. I wouldn't share it if I didn't actually love it, and I know you will love it too. For someone who is already a PA student and trying to study for their pants, what did you find was the best form of studying for you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so my school had us buy Rosh Review, and I know that's really popular for a lot of schools. I think those questions are really helpful, but that's just pretty much like a question bank. Um, I got Smarty pants, is the thing you can buy. Some people use UWorld or some other ones. I loved Smarty pants. I thought it had a really good blueprint. It broke down each of the specialties um and like topic areas. It had practice pants exams, it had practice quizzes and blueprints. It also did really good blueprints for your EORs. We call them EORs, so I never know how to say it right. But your end of rotation exam. Um, and so I kind of used that all throughout rotation year into studying for my pants. Um, I know every school is kind of different. My school, we took the pack rat at the beginning of rotations, at the end of rotations, and then they would kind of give you a timeline as to when they felt you were ready to take your exam. I probably am one of the people who took mine in a very small gap, but I really felt like everything that I knew was the freshest when I graduated. So I think I graduated like April 30th or something, and I took my pants like a week later. So definitely on the early side, but you have to see what works best for you. Some people want to split up their studying. For me, I wanted to lock away for a week, study nine to five, and then go take it and be done and like enjoy the rest of my summer before I started, you know, getting credentialed and getting a job and whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, David was very much like that. We talked a little bit about that last time, like how over the summer he was more of the when summer hit, he cracked down, he studied for three weeks straight, like nine to five, sat for his boards, and then some other people would rather stretch it out and do like a little bit here and there. It's kind of, I guess, more figure out what's best for you and do that.
SPEAKER_00The other really great tool is pants prep pearls. It's like these two books. Um, that has a lot of great practice for pants. A lot of schools will tell you not to buy it until like you're studying or something because they didn't want us using it for our end of rotation exams. But I thought they were so helpful. So I bought them early. Um, and I use them, I still sometimes pull them out when I'm like teaching um for my students, um, or going over topics, I'll kind of work off of that. Um, but the Smarty Pants really does a great job of building you a blueprint that is in line with the blueprint that's released by um the NCCPA.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. Going back to what I was saying before about David and how he was really early, but now David still has one more board to sit for, where for him, he chose not to sit for it right after med school graduation. He was like, This is the only time in my life I'm ever gonna have three months, four months off. I'm enjoying it. I'm going on vacation, I'm going on a guy's trip, I'm doing these things, I'm helping with the move and setting up our new place and all these things. That he was like, I'm not sitting for my boards right now. I will deal with that in November. Also, residency is a little bit different. Some of the residency programs will pay for you to sit for your third boards and cover that cost if you take it during your intern year. Um, but you also have to weigh that time. You still have to be fully working while you're studying for your boards. So it's definitely something to weigh. Totally know friends of ours who sat for their third round of boards like a week ago because they were like, I'm not working and sitting for my boards. Like, that's just not gonna work for me. So I think it really just comes down to what works best for you. What do you think that you can pull off and do to be able to pass your boards?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think from a PA perspective, you can't get any of your licensure or start any of your credentialing until you're board certified. Um, and so there's a little bit more of a push if you're trying to start your job early. Or I know a lot of my friends applied to jobs while we were still in school and got a job like pending their pants. So they had to pass their boards before they could start their job. Um, I didn't start looking for jobs until I passed my pants because I knew that I was going to take the boards really early. Um, so I took my boards and then passed, I think, I think it's since I've been here like five years. It was like May something, I found out and then I started looking for a job. So I graduated, like I said, end of April, took my pants first week of May, found out kind of like end of May that I uh passed, and then I didn't start my job till December 6th. So I interviewed, went through job processes, got my job. I want to say it was like end of August, beginning of September. I actually like got my hospitalist job. And then it takes like a good 90 to 120 days to actually get credentialed when you're a new grad. And so I couldn't start boarding and all those things. So I couldn't start till December 6th. So take that into consideration. But obviously, you can interview while you're studying too, so you can kind of overlap some of that time.
SPEAKER_01I think that's all great advice. All right, and to wrap up this conversation with a hot social media topic, do you feel that PAs and residents should make the same salary?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, this is a hot topic. It is like all over social media in the last couple of months. I think that this conversation has a lot of moving pieces, right? I think that as a practicing PA of five years, I have a lot more experience than an intern resident who just came out of didactic. So do I think that new residents should be making the same amount as me five years in? No. And I think someone with 15 years experience as a PA would say the same thing, right? The more experience that you have, the more years under your belt, the more you have to offer. Do I think that residents should be making less than six figures when new grad PAs can make six figures? Absolutely not. I also think that this has gotten better over the years, but residents are so overworked.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And PAs, unless you're really like going into a residency as a PA or like a fellowship, and the PAs really don't experience that type of like scut work that the residents and like interns get.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And they're making a fourth of the salary. Right, right. You know, like the take home at the end.
SPEAKER_00Right. On rotations, yes, like everybody's gonna get scut work. You're rotating, you're a student, right? But like as a resident, yes, you're learning. But I I think that it should be better. But I don't know what that answer is, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think also from my point of view, obviously, as the wife of a resident now, I obviously would want more. But when you come down to crunch the numbers and even us as a family with him working, I don't even think sometimes with his salary, we will be even making ends meet. Right. We're making too much to qualify for SNAP, we're making too much to qualify for government assistance, but he's supposed to be working 80 plus hours a week, and our take home is maybe $40,000 a year. Right. Like, and in today's economy and things, like you go to the grocery store and pick up eight items, it's a hundred dollars.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like it's just mind-blowing that we are still underpaying the residents as physicians. You have to remind yourself so often that, like, okay, even if we're in the red, you have to remember that it is a season, it is temporary, and that in three years from now, you'll be making three, four times that salary, doing the same exact job, probably. Right. But your time will come.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's it's hard. You know, you come out of school and now your loans kick in. A lot of people are moving to where their job is. And a lot of times the job, the the price tag on that job doesn't always match the area that you're living in. And so I think across the board there's ways to be more equitable. For sure.
SPEAKER_01I think coming up in the next few episodes, I do want to sit down with David and talk a little bit more about loans and timelines on those and educating people on ways that you can make changes ahead of graduating from medical school to better set yourself up for loan repayment options as well. Because I think we lacked in that, and now sitting in the position that we are in now, I wish I had that knowledge coming in. That's a wrap. Meg, thank you for being here and opening up about your time in PA school because I know it's not always easy, but I think your perspective and advice can really help other students debating PA versus doctor. And to anyone listening, whether you're in medicine or loving someone through it, I hope this reminds you that what you're feeling is valid and that you're not alone in it. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and follow along so you never miss an episode. It helps this little community grow in the best way. You can find me on social media at Lifeofad Wife. Until next time, take a breath, pour yourself a nice coffee, and be kind to yourself. I'll see you in the next one.
