Gwen Sarandrea interviewing Duke Morton

Duke describes his journey caring for mom & dad in their home over a 7 years period. He talks about the physical challenges like learning how to transfer her safely from wheelchair to bed, etc. His sisters helped and gave him a day/week off. Duke describes the changes in him & his life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi. Welcome to Aging Loved Ones The Healing House podcast. I'm Gwen Saringea. I have with me today Duke Morton. Duke was on a little earlier talking mainly about his father, but he took care of both parents until they both died. And so today we're going to talk more about mom. Hi, Duke. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Hi, I'm I'm great. Thanks for having me back. We talked mostly about my dad last time, I I guess. But I and he I only cared for him for nine months actually. After I got there, we didn't know how long he had. And um then uh, you know, I got nine months uh before he died. But my mom, we got a number of years, about what, seven years actually, with my mom. So it was a much longer time period. So yes, so and she was uh going downhill, she had Parkinson's, and it had started to, you know, generate as it does the I think I spoke a little before, the uh medication that they have, I guess the general medication, L DOPA. When she went on it de a few decades before, uh, they had said that it'll last for, I forget what they said, 18, 20 years. It maintains, it it keeps it at bay. But then eventually you start going downhill and it's irreversible. And so by the time I came on, she it had started going downhill. She was still able to get around in her walker, but it uh you know, it was slowly progressing to where she ended up, you know, bedridden right before she passed away. But that was a number of years. So we we got some years with her. Yeah, after my dad died, that was uh six years with her. I had been taking care of both she and my dad myself for the first 18 months I was there, at which point, happily, my sister, my youngest sister, was ready to make a move from her place down in Santa Cruz, and I suggested she had thought maybe of moving up to the area. And uh, since we had extra space uh once my dad passed, I suggested why why doesn't she come and stay with in my uh mom's house? She was working remotely, so it worked out perfectly, and it took uh such an emotional load off of me. The the physical, all the the physical aspects of it, which is is you know intense, I could do, but emotionally I really needed someone else there at that point. My dad had passed away, and I was just it was just me and my mom for six months um alone. But looking back, I have no idea how I survived that, but I did. By the time my sister moved in, I said, okay, I really we either have to hire someone else else to come in and help, or I will simply lose my mind, like quite literally. So she moved in, and as I had spoken of before, it's not that I couldn't, you know, I was taking care of my mom so I could do everything, but you know, she needed another woman in the house to to, you know, to to be with. Just like my dad needed me there, like another man in the house to be with. It just if the dynamics are different, with men and women, of course. So I, you know, I was perfectly adequate. But uh, but it was great having my sister there because she could sort of take the load off. And of course, she connected with my mom in a totally different way, mothers and daughters, of course. And and as I was doing, we had spoken before, I mean, this podcast is the healing house. Uh, me and my dad both did a lot of healing. And so I was, you know, continuing the journey, uh, healing with my mom. And of course, you know, my sisters, both sisters had lots of healing to do around around uh my mom as well. So it was great for her to be in there. Uh and such a relief to have her there 24 hours. We were both living in the house together. So yes, it was it was a wonderful opportunity that uh that we both got to. I think I've mentioned before we are very close. Uh I'm close with both of my sisters. We're all very close, but I was closest with my youngest sister. And and through the decades, whenever we each of us had had our leases up, we we always toyed around with with we should get a place together and and share living space for a while, which never had worked out. So it was actually cool on that level as well, because we were sharing living space finally after many decades of thinking about it. Uh so that was also wonderful. And uh yeah, so we did that. By the time my my sister moved in, uh we had five years actually of taking care of my mom together. And uh it was a learning experience. You just learn it as you go. There are uh numerous uh organizations that that support caregivers and and their you know group, group classes and group therapy sessions, which you you tend to just need to talk to other people outside of the house is what I found even not even professionals, just other people that were not connected with the situation. My mom, my parents were both on Kaiser, and Kaiser had a lot of resources, and so I would always go online and uh look up and see what what they had, what resources they had for caregivers. And uh, but I do remember at that point that he was going through the same thing with his mom. And uh I thought that was interesting. I mean, everybody, it touches everyone, no matter no matter how famous or not, everybody has parents, they're all aging, and at some in some way you're going to be dealing with this. So I thought that was very reassuring. It's like, yes, yes, even stars deal with deal with aging parents and have the same pressures on them emotionally, and there's there's just a tremendous emotional pressure because they're your parents. It's it's not like uh working in a hospital, which of course has its own pressures, but when you have that added emotional aspect and family aspect to it, it's just this this extra, extra layer of tension which you have to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

What were the emotional issues that came up for you with your mother?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Well, there are there were definitely, I mean, as with parents, control issues, of course, because they are your parents. And actually, I have a friend right now who who's recently downsized and moved back in with his parents as well. And uh, and there's just there's this dynamic where you suddenly fall back into the pattern as if you're, you know, you're a preteen living with their parents. And it's interesting, both there's a certain part of both the parents, me and my parents, that you just sort of click back into that relationship because that was sort of the last time you were living together, which is very odd. And you you have to step back and go, wait, no, I'm the adult now and I'm taking care of you. So it sh it shifts shifts the power, sort of a power struggle, definitely, if you have very, very controlling, domineering, or strong-willed parents that are used to having control. And of course, they're used to having control over their lives as well. And so, you know, they're sick and they're losing control and they want to keep as much control as they can. And then, you know, you're the child that moves back in and they're used to controlling you as a child. And so there's that aspect. I have to lay down the law a number of times with both parents that that I am now in charge, and this is what you have to do. So hold on here. And I did have to assert my my uh myself as as I was in charge, and I'm the one in uh involved with uh with Kaiser and the nurses, and you know, you have to, I have to take your blood pressure every day. I have to, you have to take these medications, you have to eat something with the medications, just all little things. It's uh things they, of course, did with for you when you were a small child. It's like you end up doing the same thing. And uh, you know, there can be resistance or there can not be resistance. Of course, at first there was lots of resistance to me laying down the law, but but eventually we worked it out and and they relaxed. You also have a mentality of not being one not if you're strong-willed, you don't want to be taken care of or you have a problem accepting care from people, and that's just sort of universal, I think, through all through all of the decades of your life. Certain people, I know I've had that and had to step back, especially as a man, you know, stepping back and accepting, accepting care, accepting advice or help from other people. Uh and and my mom certainly was very strong-willed and had a problem with that as well. And and eventually she relaxed and was able to take advantage of the care that that me and my sister were giving her, and and that Kaiser was also the Kaiser nurses and physical therapists were giving. So uh so that was interesting. It was a journey. It's a journey. All of life is a journey.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yes. Previously you mentioned that hospice, you had hospice for your dad at the end, but that you actually brought hospice in earlier for your mom, years earlier. I'd like you to talk about that because people need to know that hospice is available before the absolute end.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yes, actually, that's that's very true. That's a really good point. And yes, with my dad, of course, and we had the same view of hospice. It's like, oh, that's only something that when they're on their last their last days and they're dying, then you call up hospice and they help. And of course they do help. But they really we had done that with my dad the last few weeks, and and they really were telling us, wow, I wish you had brought us in like right when you moved in to take care of them, because we could have helped, assisted with all of that. It's not just for when you're dying. Once I saw all their services, like, wow, I really could have used that when I was at that point, I was there alone doing all of it. And uh, yeah, you don't have to be alone. They they have these wonderful services for free. For my mom, we we did that. We did that uh full two years before she actually died. And they they came in and and she was actually having a harder and harder time getting up and down. She was in a wheelchair at that point, she had to maneuver into bed every night, and it was just getting harder and harder. So we needed a hospice to just a physical therapist to come in and just show us how to safely maneuver her from her wheelchair onto the toilet and then and then from her wheelchair into bed, and how you you know, the steps to swinging your legs over and then sitting up and rather than the reverse. Just just lots of things that you don't think about that uh makes it easier when you when you have less mobility. And that was that was fantastic. We had them for a full two years before it's like your my mom was used to them and really liked the the people that were coming in to see her and check on her. And uh so once it got worse and she was more dependent on them, she already knew them and they already knew her situation. And uh it was much smoother. It was just just really, really wonderful. And uh, it's a fantastic organization. Yes, I I they they impressed it on us and I impress it on everyone. You call them long before, long before the end. They do so much more for you.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

That's so wonderful. And what were some of the emotional changes that you went through taking care of your mom?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Definitely, you know, of course, being back around your parents as they're aging. I mean, there's it's gonna bring up old, old, lots of old memories, of course. We had a, you know, uh a difficult time growing up with my parents. They they had a very uh tumultuous, very negative relationship that had been going on long before they started having kids. Um so that's the atmosphere we grew up in, just a very uh unhealthy relationship uh that they had. And so we grew up in a household that that we always had music and dance and theater, and that was just from and classic films going. Both parents enjoyed all of this. So we we grew up in that atmosphere, and my mom had been had been uh studying to be a dancer and and had been done some runway modeling in New York. Um so she was uh familiar with the theater and and that whole, you know, that whole milieu, and um she got us involved at a very early age. And then both me and uh this is my other sister, uh, that's closer in age to me. We uh we sort of grew up together, and she got us involved, of course, in in theater and dance, and we both showed uh aptitude for both of them, and we actually ended up enjoying it. And she was, you know, the quintessential stage mom, not quite as brutal as uh as the beauty pageant moms on reality television, but it there was definitely pressure and a lot of control exerted. And happily we both it was a field that we both wanted to go into as adults, and the training was wonderful and the discipline, but we learned lots of discipline. There were th you know, there were definitely a lot of positives that came out of it as well as as the negatives. But she was a very dominant personality and she really cracked the whip at home. She definitely was the one controlling everything in the house. Uh decades later, we had both my sister that I danced with, uh, she went into teaching. She uh has a dance school and she's very successful. I got out of the business altogether and went into uh producing films. But so when we came back to take care of her, she still, you know, she still was just a tough, tough old bird in that she had to have control over everything and was used to running the household on single-handed on her own. And of course, she's ailing and she can't do that. And now she has to accept care from other people, care from her kids and care from from doctors and nurses. And uh, that's a tough adjustment. It brings up tons of emotions of remembering how she was and how she is now, and then all the pro you know, issues she had now, remembering how those were the same issues as that we grew up with when we were little and seeing it all reenacted. Uh, that's yeah, that's another good thing, too, is because you're an adult and you've been away for decades and you come back, you see it with fresh perspective, and you go, oh, here's this power play that was going on that we didn't realize as kids, and here's what was actually happening. And then learning about my mom and dad's relationship as well. It's like, oh, here are all the dynamics that, of course, as children we never knew, but this is what was actually going on. And it's like, oh, it explains so much. You just um you get so many things answered about behavior, negative behaviors, and um all all sorts of insane decisions that were made that at the time were like, where's this coming from? Later, later on, you come back and uh, you know, if you really throw yourself into it and examine all of it as I did, that was one of the main reasons I went back. I mean, uh aside from taking care of them, was to really get a grip on where all of the negative uh, you know, all the negative stuff that happened came from and and what does what drove the decisions that were made. And then remembering also there was lots of positive as well. I mean, career-wise, uh just uh the the discipline and the perseverance and and all of the great stuff that has served me so well served all of us so well. Also came from that period too. So um was it's it's very different coming back into a family situation as an adult and uh looking at everything with fresh eyes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yes, I found the same thing uh with my parents when just when my mother was in a wheelchair and I took her for a walk the first time outside, and I could just feel the shift in power. It's like now I was the one in charge and she was the one who knew uh the other thing I noticed it's like so many people, I think they have a hard time receiving, and so many people at the end of their lives end up needing care, 24-hour care, because they have to learn to receive. They may be given all their lives, but they block the receiving. So by the end of the life, they're basically needing help because they have to learn to receive. It's part of the human condition. You have to open your heart and receive.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yes, yeah, so so true. I mean, that was definitely with both my parents. That was one of the major issues was learning to receive and um and then making them receive. I mean, sometimes it's like, no, you are going to die unless you do this, you will literally die. So you have to receive this help. Um and then that was sometimes a battle. But uh, but yeah, it's definitely a learning experience. And and both my parents, of course, eventually let go and and received the care, and then we're very grateful for all of the care. I mean, it just was a once they opened up, then it was just overwhelming. I mean, because there's lots of love that goes into it as well. We're doing it because we love them and we we want them to have an easy time towards the end. And all of that comes through after after everything settles down and they let go and start receiving.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

So can um how have your relationships changed in your life since this happened?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Good question. Yes. Yeah, actually, yes, I'm in in a wonderful relationship now, and it's very interesting to see just how I have changed so much looking back on past relationships from from, you know, decades, two decades ago, and how I am now. Uh a lot has shifted in me. A lot of letting go and letting things ride and seeing where things go rather than having to control everything right from the beginning. And actually, we've had some discussions too when you're younger and you have a laundry list of expectations, and the minute you meet someone, it they have to like, you have to tick off all of the boxes. And the things that are so important back then is like, wow, I look now and I go, wow, none of that is important. Uh the the the the rapport and just a lot of really basic, really basic things that are just personality-wise, that right off the bat when you meet them, you really it's coming from your heart. You and I have discussed this too. It's opening your heart and being heart-centered as opposed to getting into you, jumping into your head when you meet someone and going, okay, now let me just see. Oh, I don't like the way this is. I don't like the way they do their hair, and I don't know if they get wrinkles, I don't know if I'm gonna like that. Really things that things that at the time you think are, wow, this is really important. Boy, it just isn't. If you open your heart later, as you know, I certainly learned to, just open your heart and then you you suddenly meet someone and you just vibe, and that's the stuff that is the meat of the relationship, not all of this, uh, not things that you can control, which is is sort of what I learned from my parents too, was control. Everything is about control. I'm gonna control the situation and you're gonna act like I want you to act. It'll be great when they do everything I want them to do. And that's all in your head. You jump into your head when that's it at all. And uh, and it really did shift uh taking care of my parents, it broke it broke me down out of a lot of old patterns, and some of it just from sheer exhaustion. I had to let go. I could not control, I couldn't control them aging, I couldn't control my mom's Parkinson's degenerating her her nervous system. You just eventually have to go, okay, this is the way it is. Let go. Um and interestingly, yes, it it does come into play then, then in personal relationships. It yeah, there's a huge shift in me now.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yes, and control is such a big deal in so many relationships. Working that out with your parents, I think, is key because we learn that control in our childhood and usually take it into adulthood. So here's finally the opportunity to release that control and to see how damaging controlling is to a relationship. I know um it after taking care of my dad and seeing the control issues, I totally let go and my life is better for it because I don't have not holding on to the control that I used to.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yes, yeah, so so true. Wow, just holding on. Uh yeah, letting go versus holding on. I used to hold on even in relationships. This anything in my life, it's uh I've decided this is how it's going to be. And I say no to anything else that comes up. It's like, no, it has to fit this certain pattern. Relationships, business opportunities, whatever, career-wise. And it's I look at everything from a completely different angle now, and really wonderful stuff has happened to me because I completely say yes and just let go. Wow, this, you know, that this is what's being presented to me now. And so just go with that and see where it leads. And it always ends up being wonderful. And I end up, I'm in a completely different place in my life than I ever would have been before, and I've never been here. And that is simply because being around my parents and the all of the issues that we grew up with and letting go of all of that, and it just changes your whole perspective on on all parts of your life that I I didn't realize would happen now that they are gone and this is a few years later, I still see it affecting me and how how much I've changed. And and you're right, it is definitely directly related to doing the caregiving.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Now I assume you have a different perspective on your mom, like more probably compassion. What things did you learn about her that you didn't know before taking care of her?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yes, perspective. It's it's learning. Both of my my parents were of a generation, uh, they are both Southern and and just Southern anyway. You you never talk about anything. Whatever personally is going on, you have you have to have a facade and it has to be genteel, and you you just don't talk about things that are unseemly. And they s they certainly were of that generation uh in the early 20th century. That's how they were raised. And as me and my sisters, of course, became adults, we started digging, and we my parents would not discuss anything about their past. So we had to go digging and find out things like what what what is the circumstances, what what were their families like, you know, where what were what was the situation? Because clearly they were both very unhappy, unfortunately, in their adult lives, clearly both very unhappy, very unhappy with their relationship and their marriage, and um is just very sad. I think, as with most people, that you feel like if you had control over everything in your life that things would be better, and of course that's not how it works. But they they, you know, were desperate to hold on to control, control us, control everything around them, control their each of them fighting to control the marriage the way they wanted to, each of them separately, learning their background as adults before we started caregiving. Uh that both of my parents were were abused as kids. And none of it, it was never spoken about, it was never addressed. Even as adults, they never addressed it. My dad finally, a few decades before he died, finally opened up to my mom about the abuse he'd experienced. And she, of course, was in shock. But but that was that was decade. They'd already been married for 40 years. I mean, and then he never opened up about it to us. We found out about that through uh our mom. And then some digging, uh talking to bull uh our our parents' relatives there, their brothers and sisters, and and finding out things, things about their family life and uh the abuse that was going on. So, yeah, coming back as an adult and not having that background, they the few things they would talk about their past when we are caregiving for them. It uh yeah, it really shapes it, it sort of lets you release, sort of in a way, the resentments that you've held. I mean, certainly for me, you know, resenting the way I. Was treated, or my sisters were treated, or the or circumstances, letting go of that and realizing that they saw no other way to behave. And it's what that it's how they were treated growing up. Um, and they they literally did not know any better. So there is there is a lot of release around that. You know, it certainly doesn't excuse never looking at it as an adult, but it does explain so much, so much that that they they were not aware of or were unable to unwilling to look at in themselves and didn't really know how to deal with it. It's uh it's just really tragic. It's very sad, but it certainly gives you perspective and release, you're right. I mean, it's that's I was able to release a lot of resentment uh around both parents and our upbringing.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

And forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yes, forgiveness, not not just release and understanding, but but definitely forgiveness. Yes, lots of forgiveness. That's that's really is key. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

And when you know somebody's backstory and how the difficulties they had in their life, it's easier to forgive them because we're all human.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yes, exactly. And compassion, that's another thing, and having compassion for them. They did the best they could. They really wanted the thing that always comes through to all of us now that they're gone is how much they wanted for us. They really wanted us to be happy and they didn't know how to make us happy, that they were never happy in their lives and never saw it as a goal. And yet when they got old, they wanted happiness and they wanted us to have happiness, and they didn't really know how to go about that, which is is very tragic. It's very sad. But anything that happens now to any of the three of us, we all say, Oh, you know, that's that our parents would be so happy because we are, you know, I am truly happy in the relationship I'm in now. And it's uh and it's very touching to know that uh they always wanted that for each of us, and they they're not here to participate in that now, which is uh always always there's a sadness around that.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

So how did you handle the personal hygiene with your mother when you you were alone before Susan moved in?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Well, you learned, I mean, once again, we had brought we had brought in hospice, and so I had to learn how to to safely maneuver her off of at that point. She was in her wheelchair, she had to maneuver off the wheelchair onto the toilet to clean up after her, having helped raise my little sister. She's 11 years younger than I am. So so both me and my other sister were in our preteens when she came along. So we both helped basically raise her and change diapers and that kind of thing. So, so essentially, I mean, at the end of your life, it's the same story. So, so not uh uh I think more of it was not so much the cleaning, but just the maneuvering, how to safely maneuver somebody that has mobility problems from a wheelchair onto a toilet and then back onto a wheelchair and in and out of bed or in the living room, in and out of a chair. We had just change chairs because soft, big, cushy soft chairs were way too hard to get out of. The straight backed, uh straight backed armchairs were much easier. Just it's things like that. It's the mobility, really, was what I had to learn mostly, uh, how to keep her safe when she could still move. And of course, we want her to move as as much as possible.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And it's good that you're a six-foot man to physically do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yes, actually, yes, it is. It is uh yeah, I'm 5'10. Um, and and you know, she's a small woman. So so yes, definitely that had a lot to do, and I'm in shape. I've I've always kept myself in shape. So so that has a lot to do with it, definitely. And ironically, my uh my little sister who came moved in as well, she is my height as well, so she's a tall woman, and we're both physically fit. So that also helped out a lot for both of us. But it was learning, uh certainly a learning curve, keeping her safe and keeping her able to move. Because, as you know, I mean, for all of us, even if you're not caregiving, it's just as you age, moving your joints and moving your body is becomes more and more important because if you don't use it or lose it, is literally the case. And she was very, she was very aware of doing what she could exercise-wise. We she we had exercise videos that she would watch every day, have her do her exercises. We had a stationary bike, a recumbent stationary bike that she got on as much as she could and was really into doing that. And she was really, she got it into her head that she had to every day be mobile and do as much as she could. And that definitely extended the years. Years put years on her life as far as the mobility went. And the other thing, too, is because she was not shut away in a convalescent hospital around people she didn't know. She was in her familiar surroundings with her family, that also extended her life, too, because because it kept her brain active. And we kept it active. We we made sure she was not just just zoning out, sitting and zoning out all day.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Besides the control issues, uh were there other issues that came up with your mom uh that you remember?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I think the the biggest things were accepting help, because again, she's very independent and and very resistant to accepting help. She was the one that always gave the help. So accepting help was not something that she did easily, in addition to which she uh she uh not only gave the help, but she also controlled the situations. She was very big on vitamin supplements and healthy living and all continued to do research on that, which is really wonderful, but also hard because, you know, the the Parkinson's did require uh actual medications and she was very resistant to taking them. But she had to to in order to keep her life extended as long as it was, as long as it didn't. She she stayed mobile for a very long time. There was, of course, lots of childhood trauma that she'd never dealt with, and I was very determined to deal with all of that. She, you know, on the other hand, was the complete opposite. Both she and my dad were to just never deal with any of it and pretend it doesn't exist. But towards the end of her life, you know, I think that her mind would wander and things would come up. And and we tried to get her. Of course, hospice had wonderful therapists that would come in and just uh she could talk to, but she didn't know the routine of sitting down and simply opening up to someone. So she didn't really know what to do with that. And yet, other like the physical therapist would come in and start start, you know, showing her how to move her body, and then everything would come out. It's like, well, why weren't you telling this to the actual therapist? She clearly wanted help with with old issues, but didn't really know how to go about it. It had been so long. The more advanced she got, she would start talking about her childhood and all her childhood memories. None of the abuse because she blocked it out for so long, but certainly other wonderful memories. And we we would go through stacks of photographs with her, and she would write down, as long as she could write, she would write down what she remembered about all the photographs, which is fantastic. So that was uh that was a wonderful thing. But yeah, I think I think really the the issues really was the cr control issues and letting go, letting go of the control of herself and everyone else, and just letting it once she started relaxing, and then the memories would come back and then she communicate the memories. And then my sisters would you know, turn on their their record with their phone. Anytime she'd start rambling, just turn on the recorder and just record all of the um all of whatever she was saying. She'd get into a story and just go and go. And it was wonderful, and now we have those recordings that we, you know, we did not know. As you've talked about with your father, things you had no idea about their childhood, all of the things that were happening around those times. Uh that was just just wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Yes, that's fabulous to learn that family history and so smart of your sisters to turn on the phone so that you can go back because you forget those things and you miss half of what's being said, and the recording is wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, oh yes, definitely. Yes. And my sisters would say, Oh, here this is this is at a birthday party. And she just mom started talking about her her brothers and like this life on the farm and stuff. And like, oh my God, this is great. Just uh yeah, lots of things I had not heard. So yeah, just lots of wonderful material, and it it's great now with uh now that we all have pocket recording devices with us all the time. It makes it so wonderful and so easy to capture all of that, and it's also important for family history.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yes, and to suggest our audience to do the same if they have an opportunity to capture those memories because they're pri priceless.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yes, yeah. Oh my gosh, yes, exactly. And it's and also to be prepared, as with our parents, because again, they were not used to just sitting down and talking about themselves. This stuff would come out randomly at an event, or it they would just get into a groove and start ta everything would just pour out. My sister said with my dad, whenever he would be in the hospital, uh he could have downtime in the hospital bed waiting for test results or something. He would just start pouring out all of his stories about being in high school and his parents and the town he lived in. She said it was like a truth serum whenever he'd be in the hospital. That was like a truth serum, and it would just all pour out, and he'd tell all of this stuff about past relationships that he would never share with us and probably never share with his with our mom. So yes, it's just be prepared at any random moment. It's uh invaluable and and very with our parents, certainly very unexpected. It would not come out when you would think was the time to talk about things. They would clam up.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Now, when you first moved in, you were taking care of both mom and dad. How was that for you? That must have been pretty overwhelming to begin with. How did you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Well, yeah. Yes, it was it was really overwhelming, but I was mentally prepared for it. I knew I had visited that summer if we had discussed that perhaps that they were going to need care. For some reason, I had been up there a couple of months earlier. And in my head, I was like, well, you know, could I could I live up here? They had room in their house for a caregiver. And and somehow in my head, I was like, well, let's let me explore this area. Could I actually be up here for an extended time and and function? And at that point, I was working remotely, so that wasn't a problem. And and I had just done that about two months before we made the decision to actually do it. So I thought I'd already already known that I could actually logistically it was workable. As we had spoken before, just from working on your book, The Healing House, years before, I already had it in my head that at some point I wanted to have that kind of experience with my parents. And at that point, I didn't know when that was going to be. But it sort of happened over that summer. It just sort of, you know, was the perfect storm. And then all of a sudden, my sister would come up for a couple of years before. She would come up every month or so just to check on my parents and be there for like a week and see how they're doing. And I had come up that summer and had sort of checked things out. And then her last visit up to them, she was practically in tears. She had to go back to her place in Santa Cruz, and she she was practically in tears. She was just said, they I don't know how they're living on their own. I just could barely stand to leave them. Uh, you know, how are they getting their food? She did everything she could remotely. But at that point, we sort of realized, okay, they have to have somebody there all the time. And that's when I jumped in and said, you know, why don't I just move up there and just be there with them? So I went into it mentally prepared and knowing that it was going to be completely exhausting, and knowing that I was going to be there on my own, day in, day out, and having the support, moral support of my sisters, and certainly financial support. We all we all financially supported each other through that. Uh, that that is a certainly a drain on everyone's bank accounts. But I had my other sister that is closer in age to me, she actually just lived a few miles away. She had a home with her daughters. And uh, so she was there, so I wasn't completely isolated, but I was on the front lines 24-7. But I did know mentally going into it, I was prepared. And everybody, of course, was all sort of in a tizzy, how long are you going to be? How long is it going to be? And in my head, I was like, I was prepared to, it's going to take as long as it's going to take. I don't know how long that's going to be, but people, people don't run their lives like that. They don't let it just go and and go with it. They wanted a definite, so I said, well, you know, maybe two years, 18 months or two years, then maybe, and then I'll be back to just sort of satisfy everyone. But in my head, I knew I was like, no, I'm up there for the duration. So if it takes as many, it's going to take as many years as it takes, and that's what I have to, uh, I have to somehow make my energy last as long as I can make it last. And that required, when I first moved up, setting boundaries. My parents were both used to being in absolute control of their lives and everyone else's and never respected anybody's boundaries. They would set boundaries, but never respected anybody else's. So they were not used to that. They were used to, oh, you know, here I am, I'm I'm in the family. I was the mediator and I wanted to make everything okay for everybody. And so we had these two impossible personalities, both wanting to control the relationship and the home life and battling all the time. And I was the mediator. So the expectation was I was going to come in and I was going to once again be the mediator, and they would just throw their tantrums and everybody would just scramble. But I knew that with my having limited energy and I wanted to stay there and be functional as long as possible, I had to really set boundaries. And I had learned that, of course, from Gwen through wonderful therapy for years. And this was the time to test it, to really set the boundaries. And like, no, I am the one that's in charge. This is you, you know, you don't just throw a temper tantrum and expect everything to go your way. This is how things are. Um, and both parents, I I really we had to have knockdown, drag out fights. It's like, no, I am in charge now. You're not. My dad, especially with my dad, who was used to, you know, a retired executive, bless them, cannot stop, cannot stop controlling, you know, you know, uh directing the troops. We had, I, I really had to stand my ground and go, no, this is this is how things work now. And you can't just just be upset and throw a temper tantrum and treat everyone around you like you feel like. It's like, no, that's not, that's not happening. And and eventually, after a few times of of setting boundaries, uh, they started respecting the boundaries. And it was a big shock. It was a big shock to both of them. And uh I remember my mom saying once uh uh at some point, she said, Oh, you've changed so much. We used to have such a great relationship. And I was like, Yeah, the great relationship was you would throw a tantrum and then I would just capitulate and make everything okay. Like, yeah, that's actually not the relationship now. Uh, you know, I I still love you, but I am now in charge, and you don't just just have everything your way all the time because you happen to feel like that at that moment. So, so yeah, we went through a number of months of laying down the law and also just for my own sake, not being run ragged emotionally, because I knew I had limited energy and I am one person and uh and gotta set the boundaries and say keep them, hold those boundaries. And it was great. It was wonderful for me as a person. Really, really changed transformation. You're talking about how did it change me? That I really got good practice and I got really good at it and was a really good feeling. It's like, wow, I can really just move in and take charge, and I can make everything okay, but it's not the way they want it to be okay. It's it's it's what's best for everyone. Yeah, that's uh uh and and I made my my energy lasted for about 18 months. That was when after my dad died, and then my mom and I were together. I was there on the front line with her for six months alone. By that time, my energy had gone. I had been, yeah, we drained the battery. And that's when I sort of sent out the alarm to my sisters, like, okay, something has to happen. I have to have some help now. And then my little sister moved in. And so that that was uh that was also wonderful. And then everything changed again. Was very specific about knowing what I was going into and knowing what I needed to do, uh, and how I needed to change my I couldn't be the little kid, you know, I was my responsibility, and so I had to to set the boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Yes. You grew to meet the challenge.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Yes. Yes, definitely. Lots of growing. I mean, my gosh, I I really changed a lot, which has carried on into my life now with a new career and a new relationship, and I approach all of it completely differently now and very much more open and and not controlling the situation, letting things play out and knowing when there need to be boundaries, but but not not going into with a preconceived notion of how I want it to turn out. And it always ends up being better because I because I let go and just let it happen. It's it's just a totally different way of living. I learned it all from being on the front lines with my parents with these two very dominant personalities. It's just my sister said, just just overgrown infants that that they both just throw a tantrum and then everybody has to scramble, and they did that their whole lives. Yeah, that was challenged. It's rising to the challenge. That was the challenge.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Yes. Were they in the same room or did they have separate rooms when you first moved in?

SPEAKER_01 38:48

No, they actually they they stayed in the same room and they did their whole lives. I mean, you would think with their their marriage and the state of it that they would have decamped to separate wings of a building, but no, they actually shared a bed and a room their entire life. Steel cage deat match a lot of times, but they they were together, they were they were together to the end, literally till death to us part. That was it. They took it very literally. So uh, and that was interesting to to watch play out too. And a real learning experience because they were determined never to face anything or change. And so a lot of it's like, wow, this was all going on when we were growing up, and this is the stuff we didn't know about. This is their dynamic, and this is it explains so much of everything that happened when we were little. So yeah, they were together to the end, literally in the same room. They died in the same room.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Wow, that's incredible. And uh I guess they were partially mobile at that point. Uh like how did you get them in and out of bed if they were together in the same bed?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Uh they weren't in the same bed. They had separate beds at that point, uh, because they each had to have beds that uh, you know, you could raise and lower, raise raise the back and raise the feet. You had to have that because they could not raise themselves up from a supine, you know, a flat position. They had to have be at least partially raised, and then you raise the back up, then you swing the legs over, and then you then you raise up and then you're sitting on the edge of the bed. I had to learn that from the fiscal therapist. So yes, they were both in separate beds because they had to. My dad had sleep apnea, so he had his masks going on all night. My mom, at one point before she actually went into the bed, the reclining bed, was in a one of the reclining chairs that you can that will raise you up, that will stand you up, but it's a very cushy, soft chair that reclines as well. She stayed in that for a long time and just slept in that for a while, uh for a couple of years, uh, because that's what she was used to, and it was easier for her to get up and down. But eventually we convinced her to get into a bed and and raise and lower the bed, and sh and she eventually was happy with that. It was a learning process, and they definitely had to have help uh getting in and out of bed and in and out of chairs.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

And did hospice supply those beds that raise and lower?

SPEAKER_01 41:03

And yes, we got all the equipment for free through hospice and uh through Kaiser as well. Kaiser had a program as well. So part of it was hospice, part of it was Kaiser, but it was all it was all for free because they were on Medicare. All the equipment was free, and we just had to request it. It had to be requested by the physical therapists to to do the requesting.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yes. Hospice really helps with their nurses, 24-hour nurses, etc. That kind of help that you can have whenever it's necessary.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yes, that and we relied on that. That was such a load off my back because before with my dad, when I first moved in, we didn't know about that. And so we had help through Kaiser, but I I could have had a lot more help that I really could have used. But yes, it's 24-7 care. And especially with my dad and his blood pressure issues, he he had a lot, uh, a lot more going on. Oftentimes it would be three in the morning, and my sister would have to come over with her car and help me get get my parents into the car and go to the hospital with my dad to have all his readings done. So it was uh yeah, that was that was very intense. But the combination of Kaiser and Hospice was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Yes. We had hospice for my father when he was in a coma, and my sister, I remember, called hospice like two o'clock in the morning and put the phone to dad's mouth so the nurse could hear how loud the moans were, and she sent morphine over at 2 a.m. in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yes, yes, exactly. Yes. My dad was on morphine as well. They trained me how to to administer the morphine, and it was uh really, really incredible what they provided, and certainly could not have done it without them, especially those last those final days with my dad, and then those last two years with my mom. Of course, it was much easier because they were around more often.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

And can you just say a few words about your self-care, how you took care of yourself to relieve the stress?

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yes, okay. Which is really, really important. I because I had a very strong meditation practice at that point, and I had a wonderful therapist, I was doing work with you, Gwen, during that whole period as well. I I had a strong meditation practice multiple times per day, would take step aside, take step away and and do a meditation. I was getting very random sleep at that point because both of my parents would be in the middle of the night. I was just on call 24 hours a day. You know, during the day I would sleep a lot during the day as well whenever I could. Uh in addition to which my my sisters would come over and give me a day off at least once a week, and I would just specifically leave the house me. And it's very refreshing. And it's, you know, some people need to be go out in neater and have neater hikes and be alone. Uh just whatever you can do to be out of the situation and be immerse yourself in something totally different for a few hours helps tremendously. Uh but definitely I I will have to say the meditation practice I relied on all the time to keep my sanity and and uh keep going. Towards the end of my dad, specifically towards the end of my dad's life when I was there alone, just to keep going myself. And nutrition and exercise and and meditation and just really focusing, making sure that you really take care of yourself because it takes it out of you emotionally and physically. All aspects of you, of your life, drain away unless you watch out. So you do, you really have to take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Yes. Thank you so much, Duke, for your insights, for sharing all of your story. We're going to have you back again to go even deeply into these issues, but thank you for today. I appreciate it so much.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Sure. Thank you for having me. Anytime I'll I'll be happy to come back and uh impart my wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

All right, bye.