Gwen Sarandrea interviewing Duke Morton

Gwen describes some of her experiences of her dad living w/her for 4 years while interviewing Duke about caring for both parents for a total of 7 years. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi. Welcome to Aging Loved Ones, the Healing House podcast. I'm Gwen Sarandrea. I have with me today Duke Morton. Hi, Duke. How are you? Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back on. Uh Duke took care of both parents for seven years until they both died. And I took my father lived with me for four years before he passed away, but my dad was healthy the whole four years until the end. Yes. So I'm just gonna inter talk about a little bit of my experience too, along with yours. So for example, it is so useful to find out what was happening in your parents' lives and what was going on when you were a child because it clears up so much. For example, my whole life, I have been left by men. My ex-husband left me, you know, important relationships left. And I didn't understand why, because my dad stayed until my mother passed away. They were married for 45 years. They had a good marriage. So why was this? Well, when I lived with dad, I said, Dad, where were you when I was born? Oh, he goes, Well, that was World War II. I got sent to Virginia. I was drafted uh into the Navy and I was there for a while. My off the my commanding officer asked if I would be happy to stay there because I was handing out GI clothing and he was so happy with my work. I was thrilled because I didn't have to go overseas. Well, what happened when you came home? I was doing war work for seven days a week. I paid off my house in two years doing overtime. He was so excited. It's like, and this is a story of my life. When I was a child, my father was always working. He was always taking care of his his parents. He's taking care of my mother, the house, the car, the yard. I basically hardly ever saw him. So I got to know my father on a wonderful level as an adult woman. I was 50 years old when he came to live with me. And I it was really so wonderful to know that I had this fabulous father who took care of us and loved me. What was it like for you, Duke?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Well, that's that's amazing. It's we had I only had like n I ended up having nine months with my father before he passed away, once I had had moved in to take care of them, both my mom and my dad. And so he was around for nine months. He had at that point uh advancing dementia, but luckily it was not like Alzheimer's where he forgets everything and doesn't know who's around him, which was quite a relief to us. So he he knew us and interacted with us and remembered a lot of things. His long-term memory was affected where he wouldn't remember houses he had owned or places that we had lived. But as far as as most of it, he did remember. Um specifically, because we growing up, we we did a lot. I mean, I I started working with with you uh actually in high school. Uh, our our home life was so dysfunctional, and my parents' relationship was so awful from the get-go, uh, from long before they started having us. So I I in you know, at the end of high school, I was like, okay, I I need some guidance. And then I was lucky enough to to have uh met you and started working with you, and then you know, here we are decades later. Uh so from that work, I had started doing research on my parents' lives and and what what the dynamic was, why they reacted to each other the way they did, et cetera, et cetera. So I I had a lot of backstory. I knew a lot of their own backstory before I went to take care of them. My sisters and I have have uh, if you are have just joined in, I I have one sister who's two and a half years younger, and then I have another sister that's much younger, 11 years younger. And uh we are all we are all close. I'm very close with my youngest sister. I was growing up before she was born, I was uh very close with my other sister. So so we all there's there's no uh there's no bad blood between us like there are so so many so much of the time when when your parents are aging and dying, uh you end up with a lot of bad blood, evidently, which I I learned out from other people, we were in a very good situation. Consequently, when we were all adults and before my parents got ill, we all were figuring out, doing research on the both families and just trying to piece together why it was all so dysfunctional and so unhappy and such a mess all of our childhood. So we knew a lot going in. I I had a lot of background before I started taking care of my dad and mom. But going in uh because of his dementia, he was in a much better mood. Uh a lot, it it sort of cut out the the traumatic parts of growing up for him. Something it shifted a lot of stuff, a lot of the burden that he had felt and didn't want to share with us. It made him much more accessible and and much more positive, which was a wonderful change, even though there were holes in his memory. So it was very interesting. Uh he was also very uh he my sister said it was like a truth serum. He would just start randomly telling us stuff about that we had no idea about. He he had built a life for himself. My parents' marriage was was very bad, and uh basically built a li a business and built a life for himself outside. And I I learned, you know, through once I moved in that that he had had numerous affairs uh during our lifetimes, during our childhoods, and and when he the the life he built, he you know cheated on our mom many, many times, uh all the way through the decades. And uh something that I would not have believed, not just not believing that you know, women would go for him. He was a good-looking man, but it's just something that you don't really think of your parents like, oh, they're sexually desirable. It's just something you don't you don't think of. And I would not have believed if he had not told me himself what he was doing in his dementia in his dementia state, just being really honest with what he was doing. I would not really have believed that. Somebody else could tell me, and I'd go, Oh, yeah, that's probably hearsay. I don't really believe it. But yeah, so basically, yes, he opened up and just told me everything. And so that was uh filled in a lot of blanks, a lot of blanks that from stuff that that me and my sister had found out about both my parents beforehand. So that's one thing moving in. Uh yeah, it was definitely a revelation. Uh and you sort of put the pieces together. You you find out pieces as results, and and then it it really just put those pieces together for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

And how did your relationship with him change? Once you once you understood this, uh it's I assume you had more compassion for him.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, yes. Yeah, I mean it's true, it's true. It it it you sort of see their lives as a whole, especially when they're at the end of their lives. Uh it makes you you're able to see everything. And we had done a lot of research on both of them had very dysfunctional families, not surprisingly. And they were both abused and neglected kids. They were the both the youngest of their respective families, and they were both abused and neglected. So they had they had no idea how to build a stable family life or what that was. They they had no idea how to be happy in their lives, which is very tragic. But it does give you a lot of compassion. Um, not only does it fill in the blanks, but you're able to see their life as a whole and understand the choices they made and things that seemed, you know, ridiculous, like why would you choose to stay in this horrible marriage? They they knew nothing else. Both of their they came from parents that had horrible marriages and they just stayed in them, so that's just what you did. And uh and another thing too, they were never happy. And it's very, very sad. Uh these are people that had so much to give and were so troubled and never happy in their lives. And consequently, really their outlook was well, happiness isn't really something that you should aim for. That's ridiculous. You know, you should aim for financial success and whatever stability it is, that's what you aim for. But but being happy, that's just, you know, some kind of weird byproduct, and they didn't know what that was really, or how to achieve it, or if it was worth achieving. That was just an unknown to them, which is very sad. So, yeah, it does give you compassion. It gives you it doesn't excuse behaviors and and events. You know, they made their choices, bad, bad or good, and it affected the kids, us, and negatively a lot of the time. And so it doesn't excuse it, but it certainly gives you an understanding of where they were coming from and and also an understanding of really they didn't know that they had a choice. They thought that that's how life was, and they were just doing what they were thought they were supposed to do, which is also very tragic. It's all very sad. Um, but yes, defin definitely compassion, a lot of compassion.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

And with your father's dementia, was he able to see you from a fresh perspective to actually see who you are rather than have the ideas of who he thought you should be?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yes, definitely. And actually that had started uh he really had uh, you know, I had worked, been working since uh since the end of high school, actually with you when I I found found got connected with you and and we've done many decades of work together. I found uh early on that I really wanted a different life path and and wanted some kind of stability in a relationship, uh, and that it was not going to be happening learning from my parents because they clearly had no idea what that was. And and rather than then go running off to to various religious cults, I was like, okay, no, let you know, psychotherapy is the way for me, and meditation and uh all the good things that we've worked on many, many decades now. So I uh I got really off track here. What were you asking?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

If your father was able to see you as you really are.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Okay, so there we go. So so that's where I was headed. Okay. Yes. And where I was headed was that with all the work that I had done, I was, you know, I come to grips with, you know, as you do, you can't change the other person. You can only change you yourself and the way you react to things. So I had years later, you know, decades later, I had uh come to grips with, you know, my father's the way he is. I will try to meet him at whatever place he wants to meet at. And he actually, once he retired, um actually he lost his his family, the family business. But he really wanted to make an effort to really get to know me. And this is before the dementia and before the illness and and a couple of decades before I actually, how many years? About 15, 15, 17, almost 20 years before I moved in with them uh for their final years. He really was making an effort to, at that point, I was uh in producing films down here, help produce films down here in Los Angeles, and uh he would visit and he really wanted to know what my job was like and and how how I was, and really was making an effort to see me as an adult in my own business, as opposed to the family business, which I had tried to fit into right out of high school, and and eventually just left and made my own way. So so he was already on the path of wanting to see me for who I was. So by the time he got the dementia and I moved in with him, he really was very gung-ho. He every single day would tell me every morning I would be doing stuff around the house, and he would wake up and come into the living room and just give me a hug and just say genuinely how he just loves seeing me every day. Uh that's just such a wonderful gift to him. And it was dismissed so much that, of course, I understood that from them, that they were grateful. But to hear that, hear him say it every single day, like until he died. Yeah, I had like nine, nine months from the time I moved in there. But he was genuinely grateful and really uh thankful that I was there. So, so he really appreciated me as an adult. And at that point, I still am, I I am a graphic designer as well, and I was uh doing graphic design work and getting a textual, I'm you know, getting a textual uh business going, textual design business, and getting my portfolio together. And he was very interested in that and and really supportive and really loved my artwork and just really wanted to connect with me. And because I'd done the decades of work on myself, I was ready to open up and let him in, as opposed to so often uh what I had seen with friends. Uh so often the the parent wants to open up later in life, but the child hasn't done any work. And so all it brings up is resentment and anger. Why weren't you there? You know, they haven't done any work on themselves and their relationship. So, so they're not able to open up and receive the parents. So I was at the point where I could do that, and he was really making an effort. So it was a wonderful bond we created the last uh nine months. Uh we really got close and really it just sort of put everything in the past in perspective and and uh also the stuff that I had learned about him and what he was doing with his life on his end that we didn't know about. It all uh just laid to rest a lot of of bad blood and a lot of negativity. So we ended on a really what by the time he was dead, by the time he died, we really ended on an up up note, uh, which I was very happy about. And of course, which was my goal, which I've said before from reading your wonderful book, uh The Healing House, which is on Amazon. I uh had wanted to have that experience. Oh, there we go. Good, you have it. Yes, really wonderful, and it's all the stories that we're talking about here, but it really motivated me to want to have this experience with my parents. And when it uh the uh circumstance arose, I jumped at the chance to do it because I wanted to have that the the uh experience that you had with your dad, learning about him.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

It sounds like it was quite a healing for you to dad to be telling you how grateful he was and how much he loved you every day after the childhood you had. What kind of impact did that have on you?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Really amazing, and it even touches me now when I remember that. It just in my heart, it's just overwhelming because it's something that I had not heard. Uh yet yet he he towards all of us kids, I mean, we were always in the way or an annoyance or a disappointment. I mean, that's all the the few times he'd be at home, he'd bark out orders or just let us know how disappointed he was, uh, or how whatever whatever thing, what whatever direction we had thought our lives should go in, that that wasn't going to work, and always negative and always down. And of course, later on we learned that that's what he'd heard from his parents his whole life. So uh yes, it really was touching to uh have him after he lost his business to to reach out and really want to get involved in my life and then be once I was living with him, for him to say, specifically say that every single day, how much he what what a joy it was that I was there and he could see me every day. And it still touches me. I even get sort of choked up just just talking about it now. So yeah, that was that was uh uh really profound change and a big and healing just really healed our relationship. It was yeah, just amazing. And something that you can do on your own, uh, of course, uh through meditation, but when you have the actual person there and you're doing the healing together, it's much deeper and much more profound.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yes, I experienced quite a difference in intimacy with my father living with him. Now, dad was in good shape. So actually, when he first came to live with me, he was 80 years old, and he had been sitting in front of the TV with his brother for f three years, so he kind of looked like an old man. But uh we bought an old 1914 house together that badly needed renovation, and he uh he took care of houses his whole life, so he immediately started in taking helping me taking care of that house. And within six months, he had he lost 20 years off. He he was taking two walks a day and he had a spring in his step and he was happy and alive because he felt wanted and needed again. And uh I didn't I didn't have much of a relationship with my father when I was a child because he was always working. But now he was totally there for me every single day. I pick up a hammer and there he'd be behind me. And it's like I was amazed because my ex-husband never did anything around the house. And so i I really learned the true meaning of partnership with my father because he was right there wanting to help. And and I remember telling him things that I had never told before. It's like I opened up and told him stories from my life that I had never told him. And and he did the same. I, for example, I asked him, How did you meet my mother? And he said, My mom called me over one day and said, There's a family over there that has a beautiful daughter about your age. Go call on them. And he did, and he said she was beautiful. He fell in love with her right away. And she actually he's told me she didn't like him at first, but she told him later he grew on her. My dad was a Virgo, yes, a very responsible. It's like, you know, he he just kept going. And and then another story I heard, mom told him later that when her mother was dying, she made my mother promise to marry my father because he was a good man. I had never known that. So my mother actually promised her mother she would marry dad when her mother was dying. And it's I'm so glad she did because they had a wonderful marriage. Wow, they loved each other. They were Wow. I mean, they even had sex up until her stroke. I remember because I remember my mom saying, Wow, I really miss sex. Wow, that's it. They had an active loving relationship, yes, for 45 years. Absolutely incredible. But I didn't know all of that because, you know, he was always working, mom was always working, etc. Anyway, yeah, it just makes such a huge difference when you can live with your parents and hear their stories and hear their uh yes, communicate these things that you've never talked about before.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yes, yes, it really does. And uh and get to know them, yeah, getting to know them as an adult uh just just changes. It's such a different relationship. And it can be so positive. I mean, it certainly was for me and my dad. I mean, it it was we we left it on a really positive note, and it's just all I had wanted, I had hoped for going there to take care of them. I mean, it you know, it almost killed me doing it, but it was so, so worth it. Um yeah, it just the the hardest work you will ever do in your entire life, but so worth it. Oh wow. Because now I have those wonderful memories. I mean, yes, yes, I had know all of the hardships for all the decades, but I the the last memory of him is those great nine months together. And uh yeah, it's just invaluable because because now I don't have this weight I'm carrying around. Like so many people end up with a a weight of, oh, if only I had been there, I I never got a chance to say goodbye, or you know, we had all this bad blood between us, and and now it's just left unresolved because they're dead. I I specifically did not want that happening. And uh and after your experience that you chronicled in your book, I like wow, that's that's what I want. I I don't want to go through the rest of my life carrying all of that around.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yes, and you don't want to repeat your father's patterns. And this is one way to not repeat those.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yes, yes, it's very true. And and you saying that, um, because I and and what you had said earlier about uh past relationships and and how just just how your parents' relationship that you grow up with or your knowledge of it affects your own personal relationships. I I know that having changed that relationship with my dad has led to my change in my personal relationships because I'm in a wonderful relationship now, and it would not have been possible without having worked through all of that stuff with my parents as they were dying. There is no way because it definitely there was a shift in me that then let in a completely different personality into my life that I would never have before. And it's really wonderful and it's very positive and completely different from anything I've experienced before. And that is directly from you know stay learning everything from my parents and bonding with them and letting a go of a lot of old, a lot of old stuff that you collect over the years.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yes, and uh you talked about fathers and sons before and the problems there. And often a man's sense of himself comes from his father. So it's really important to have that be a wonderful uh memory, a wonderful pattern that you follow.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Exactly, exactly. And it it dramatically changed because it easily could have been the negative, browbeating father that that could easily have been the image that I was left with, and it would affect me, continue to affect me the rest of my life, uh, if that had been the case. And instead, it got completely turned around. And yeah, it's just a completely different image and a completely different relationship we left with. And yeah, it changes you.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

And now you're able to have a wonderful relationship that that you would not have been able to have if all of this hadn't been cleared up.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Exactly. Very, very true. You've said that before, and I it really is true. And I yeah, I could not have let that in to my life. Uh it's yeah, it you know, it's something it's something that changes inside you once you change the relationship with your parents. And then because you're changed inside, you start attracting completely different personalities to you that you wouldn't have before. And I had never done that before. And now I'm now I'm involved with a completely different personality than all. All of the other ones that I had had uh through the past decades. And uh yeah, that is directly connected to having healed the relationship with my dad, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yes. Uh I think living with your parents is worth 25 years of therapy.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Oh my gosh, yes, it really is. It really is. And and also it's uh, you know, you do have to do and and not to to say that you don't have to do the work on yourself, because it's not all somebody else uh in your relationship. It's like you you've you've got work to do on your end as well. And I do know that I if I had not done my homework essentially before going into this, it would not have had been such a wonderful outcome. Uh so yeah, it it's it works, it's a two-way street. It's not all somebody else, definitely in any relationship.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

That's true. So let's talk about mom. Your relationship with your mother, she lasted a lot longer than your dad. You had more time with her. Can you just talk a little bit about how your relationship with her changed?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah, it's it's interesting. I mean, once again, her uh both of my parents uh grew up in such dysfunctional households that ours was, of course, they they had no idea how to behave any other way. So our household was very dysfunctional. She she was very uh very domineering. She she definitely wore the pants in the family to the point that my father simply built his own life away from us and was rarely around. So she she ran the household and controlled everything. And uh we as kids growing up just were scrambling, you know, to avoid another outburst. Uh so she's she didn't know any, didn't know how set no boundaries, didn't respect anybody's boundaries, knew nothing about any of that. And I knew just in order, at that point, she she had part she had had Parkinson's for a few decades. And uh as with if you don't know about Parkinson's, you can there's a a drug that you can go on that will minimize the effects of it for a certain period of time, and I think it is a 20-year period. And after that, the drug starts having less and less of an effect. So eventually you do go downhill. So when I uh she had already started going downhill when I moved in to take care of both of my parents, and my dad died nine months after I had moved in, and I was there for another, oh gosh, what, four and a half, four and a half, five, five and a half years with my mom before she died uh with Parkinson's from complications from Parkinson's. So she was already going downhill with the Parkinsons. I also knew I had to set boundaries with her in order to just keep my sanity and reserve my energy so I could take care of both my parents. And and this is a big shock. It was a big shock to her to have someone telling her what she had to do and not not just automatically bending to her will whatever whim she happened to have. It's like, no, this is you have to take these pills. This is what you have to do that, you know. The physical therapist said, you have to do this, you have to make an effort, you have to do all this stuff, which she had never had in her life. So that was uh so she even said she was sort of taken back when I first moved in because I really was was very specific about what I will do, what I will not do. And uh, you know, this is as much energy as I have, and I can't do everything. So we hear, you know, so so just laying down the law, that was a big shock for her. And and she said, she said to me at one point, she said, we used to have such a good relationship. I I want that back. And I I was examining what that meant. What it meant was she could do what she pleased, and I would simply knuckle under and just say yes and and try to make everything okay. And I'm like, well, you know, that's not the way it is now. That's not the way it is. I am now running the household, and you have to do certain things that you may not like, and that's just the way it is. So so the good relationship was she would throw a tantrum and I would just capitulate and make everything be the mediator. So yeah, in that case, yeah, in that sense, I'm like, well, yeah, our relationship definitely changed. Uh but uh we I could see, you know, of course, we're talking about, you know, fathers and sons, mothers and daughters. You know, she definitely both my sisters at that point were living. My my uh one sister had a house for many years up in Santa Rosa, which was uh just a few miles away from my parents' uh senior living community that they had a uh house in. Uh so she was nearby, and then my the youngest sister moved in. Thank God she moved in to help out. Uh so so both myself and my sister were living in the house with my mom once my dad had died. This is after my dad had died. So, yes, my sisters had certainly more relationship issues to go through with my mom than I did. Uh, my change other than other than just having to set boundaries and really, you know, because I was there to take care of to literally take care of her on a daily basis and do the I did the cooking and the cleaning and the medications and the exercise. And uh she eventually came around to getting in the routine and realizing that she did need to do this stuff for herself. It wasn't just me being a boss, it it's what she what needed to be done, and the doctors were saying, and and the uh the physical therapist was saying. Um so we came around, but it certainly was not as profound a change as with my dad. Because of course my mom had been around all those years anyway, raising us, and we had always we'd been close with her. Of course, we'd had issues, but she we were always involved with her. Um she was all always involved in our lives, even long distance. And once she got the Parkinson's and wasn't able to move around as much and wasn't able to visit us as much or at all, eventually, uh, we would always talk with her by phone. So we we had a very different relationship, I I certainly did with her. Uh so it wasn't as profound a change, but I think that there probably if you talked with my sisters, they probably had much more profound changes in their relationship with her in her death. So uh so yeah, it wasn't it wasn't as dramatic as with my dad, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

What qualities did you develop in yourself as a caretaker that you find you're using now in your life, in your career, in your relationship?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah, it's very interesting that you say that a lot. I mean, it's changed me a lot. I am much more, let's say less controlling, less controlling, less fewer expectations in a relationship. I can let things roll along and see where it goes, as opposed to having very specific mental, uh like a mental checklist of what I think should happen in a relationship and this and this and this. I I am much more open to just letting it flow and finding some median. And uh, I'm just more uh, I don't know, I guess respectful of the other person's wishes. Certainly, I I've mellowed, let's just say it's mellowed. I'm mellowed out a lot. And I don't think that that's all just to do with my age. I'm much older now. Now I'm in a committed relationship, and it's been many years since I've I've committed to that. And it's a very different relationship, and I think that is definitely a change. I'm very much let things roll like they go, let's see where it goes, and it always ends up going in a great direction. Where in the past I'd want to control the relationship, and whatever I had in my head, this is the way it has to be, and they have to follow this rule. You know, they have to be like this, or I'm just not gonna do it, which I was like for many years, and had had a series of long-term, you know, br relationships that broke up. And it was me, you know, I have definitely changed, changed a lot, and that is directly related to my mellowing around taking care of my parents and my change in my relationship with them. That that is definitely a direct result.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yes, and I found some changes in myself from living with dad. For example, when he first moved in, you know, I was watching him like a hawk because I didn't know what level of care he needed. Um and and it's like three days after he moved in, um, I laid down, took a nap, and when I woke up, I looked out my window and there was dad climbing up an old rickety ladder with an old sole in his hand, trying to cut a dead branch off a dead tree. And I I just panicked. And it's like I calmed myself and I went outside and got him down and said, Dad, it's time for lunch, come down. And and I had to lay down the law. It's like you are in great shape. And if you fall off of a rusty old ladder, you're gonna break a hip and you can be in a lot of pain. So I'm gonna make a rule. You have to stay on the ground. We'll call the tree guy. He will cut, he'll climb, you stay on the ground, you are the supervisor. And while we're at it, I want you to take a nap every day and no driving because he hadn't done his driving test either. And I said, and this is could be dangerous for you because you don't know your way around. So no driving. So I put down three rules. These are my three rules, yeah, and that was good. However, the next day, the day after, I went outside, and there he is climbing up on something again. And this time I raised my voice and said, Dad, you can't be doing this. And he's just hush up your mouth. You'll wait. The neighbors will hear. I said, Good, let the neighbors hear. As long as you get it in your head, you can't climb.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

You can't do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

So I had to confront him. I had to put down, lay down the law, and he and then he listened to me. It's like, okay, you tell me what you want to do. That's what I learned to say, okay, what is it that you want to have done? You it's like he would get the setup and then I would do the climbing. It's like, tell me what you want done, I'll climb. No problem. And after that happened, he said, okay, now I know I can count on you. And and he stayed on the ground. Not a problem. But had to lay down those boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yes, yes, yeah. Laying down the law. Boy, I had to do a lot of it, yes, as well. When I first got there, it's yeah, it's like you you can't, especially with my dad. And again, again, it's it's you know, the the most profound relationship I had changed was with my father. And he was used to being in charge, you know, the the retired executives, wow, uh, they just can't let go. And and I had to again like raise my voice, like, no, I am in charge now. I am the one telling you what you have to do, and that's it. And, you know, you you can't storm off because we're in the same house. And I would I would storm out of the room and I'd compose myself, and then I'd come back in. It's like, you know, regardless of what our argument is, you have to have your blood pressure checked, you have to weigh yourself, you have to all of this has to happen. We can be mad at each other, but all of this has to happen, and it's going to happen regardless. So we'll just, you know, just get it into your head. Have a temper tantrum, but this has to happen, and it's going to because I'm making the law now. So, yes, very much the same thing. And I had to do it a few times, but he got into it, you know, he got into his head, okay, this is how it's going to work. Okay, then then I'm gonna go with it. But uh, but yes, it's it's very uh, yeah, you there's there's definitely you have to lay down the law for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yep, there's that shift in power that happens.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yes, it's a shift in power, right? It's like, yeah, I you are not the head of the household, I am now the head of the household. And I really felt that shift, like, wow, okay, yes, I am the head of the household. Okay, in that case, you guys are gonna do what I tell you and what the nurse tells you. You know, this is this is how it's gonna operate, and I'm gonna tell you how it's operating. You're not telling me, I am telling you, uh, because I'm doing all the work. And at that point, they were both in walkers, and your dad was in good health, so that's a different scenario. My parents started out, both of them in walkers already uh when I moved in, and then becoming uh more and more uh bedridden. My mom became bedridden eventually and little by little and could not uh she had to, they both like got to be in wheelchairs for a while. My dad definitely uh the last few months, and then my mom the last couple of years was in a wheelchair, and then she was bedridden at the very end. So it's a different scenario when they have have serious medical issues going on. Uh but but yeah, drawing the line and setting the boundaries. I mean, again, and it's something I knew going in, these are people that had never had boundaries set and and didn't know anything about that. And so uh so yeah, it was very challenging, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

And my father and I worked out a partnership over the next four years, and it was actually wonderful. In fact, he was a boy he was a dancer, he he taught himself how to do the foxtrot from an Arthur Murray book, this old Arthur Murray book with all the footsteps, and his parents were farmers, so he would take this. His cousin bought uh taught himself to dance with this book and he gave it to dad when he was finished, and dad would take it in the tractor barn and follow the footstep patterns and taught himself foxtrot waltz, I think in Rumba. And then him and his cousin would go and crash weddings every Saturday night because male dancers are always in demand.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Well, of course, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And so then when he and when his my mother and he were courting, they he would take her dancing and they went dancing uh together as a young married couple with other married couples and enjoyed that for a while. And then when he came to visit me, I had already become a ballroom dancer then, so I took him to tea dances every other week, and that was really something wonderful that we had. So I went from having practically no relationship with my father as a child to having this wonderful relationship with him where I would even take him dancing and that's wonderful. He loved it. He enjoyed it because it was in the afternoon, because he went to bed early. And after the dance, we would go out to a restaurant and have dinner and and just make a whole day of it. It was wonderful. So my relationship with my father completely, totally changed with him living with me. And I have these wonderful memories. And in fact, I was reading I was reading the book the other day, my healing house book, just to jog my memory a little, and all these feelings were coming up, and you know, I was in tears, silent tears, through half the book. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yes. Yes, it is it, yeah. And just talking with you uh these these during these these podcast episodes, it brings all of that back up. And yes, it's just all in me. And I always after these these discussions with you, I always have to take some time by myself, uh, because uh to process everything, because it brings it all back. Uh so that's uh that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah, so there's a tremendous healing that happens within you when you are caretaking or you know, living with your aging parents. It's just it it it shifts the power, uh the whole dynamic shifts.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

And it's so healing. It's so healing. I have this wonderful relationship now with my father that I never had, you know, over over my lifetime. Yes. And that affects all relationships.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yes, exactly, exactly. Which is just what you were saying. Yes, I mean it really does, and it certainly has, yeah, I see it now with the relationship I'm in now. And and it's uh yeah, it is, it's it changes you, and you don't realize how much the extent to that it changes you until later. I mean, this has been years later now. My my dad passed away back in 2018 and my mom in 2024. Uh, and this is years later, but it's just still having a profound effect on on my life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Just can you talk a little bit about what you did to take care of yourself as a caretaker to relieve all the stress? Meditation, exercise, journey.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Well, actu Yes, yes, all of that. Uh luckily I had uh going into it, I had a very strong meditation practice and then I worked which I worked at multiple times a day. I would take take take 30 minutes to myself and and do meditation uh in the middle of the day. Anytime I could get get uh a few moments, I would would go to my room and and meditate. And I do it in the morning and then also before I went to sleep. Um and I did that every single day. And that that was tremendous to center myself and and just remind myself why I'm there and what I'm doing, my whole purpose, because it's so easy to lose a sense of yourself and get caught up in the day-to-day crises, especially when your parents are sick. There's always crises, and it just is exhausting. Uh so it's really important to take time and just a few minutes, just ground yourself and just realign and retard uh and remind yourself why you're there and that that you yeah, and that you need time for yourself just as much as they need your time. You also have to have time. And also staying physically fit as well. Uh I I uh have always been um well, I grew up grew up dancing and then then I uh was uh surfing at that point and surfing and kickboxing and I've always been physically active. So uh keeping up with the uh keeping up with workouts and going to the gym and even just just doing extensive walking when I could, just out in nature, was uh just really super important. Uh self, yeah, what they now they call self-care, that's all self-care, is really, really important. And there's no way I would have made it through as many years of that I you know, as many years of doing the caretaking as I I did without that. And again, I knew that going in. I knew that I would have to set boundaries and I would really have to focus on taking care of myself in order to extend, because when I went there, I didn't know how many years it was going to be. And I I in my head, I was like, okay, I'm just here for the duration. So however long that is, that's how long I'm gonna be here. Everybody, you know, people life doesn't work on people don't work up that way in their head. So all of my friends were like, Well, well, how long is that? How long is that? I was like, Well, I don't know. Two years, 18 months, two years, you know, fine. But in my head, I'm like, no, it's gonna be however long it's gonna be. And that could be a number of years, and it ended up being seven years. But I also but I knew I had to somehow stretch my energy through that. And so that that was was I had to stay with the meditation and and stay with the exercise. And I didn't get a lot of time off. I maybe would get one afternoon a week off, sometimes two. Luckily, I had to have my sisters in the area to to help out, so I would get time away, but I couldn't depend on that. And during the day, you know, it's a 24-hour day, and they were both needed care during the night. I would have to wake up and get interrupted sleep. It was really grueling. So so yes, all of the above meditation, exercise, and diet, you know, keeping a healthy diet. I did a little some stress eating. I mean, I slowly gained weight while I was there, which I then had to lose, but I I didn't stress too much about that because it's it's just you you gotta give yourself a break. It's so, so stressful. Uh so you just do as the best you can, really.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yes. And my situation was very different because my dad was in good shape.

unknown 41:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

And I'm as you're talking, I'm realizing before my father came, I had had a physical breakdown uh from not sleeping for like seven years. I didn't sleep more than three hours. Right. And so I was recovering from that. And I at that point where dad was c moving in, I was still on two drugs. They had me on halcium and atavan to help me sleep at night. Now, both of these were depressing my system. So when my father moved in, it's like I was the one who was actually medicated, not him.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

I mean Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yes, and and so what happened is I I went to the doctor and I said, help me get off of these drugs because I'm gonna need to take care of my dad. I need to get off this stuff. And he did. He put me on Ellaville, which was an antidepressant, and it got rid of the uh those two drugs, and it shifted my mood immensely. Wow. I was it really gave me a lot more energy. So my father coming actually helped me recover because then I was determined to get off those drugs so I could take care of him. Nice. So he actually motivated me. He didn't do it on purpose. It was just like I want to be fit so I can take care of dad because he's gonna need me at some point. Yes. So he he actually I actually medically got better because he was there. Wow. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, that is powerful. Wow. Very powerful. And the other thing that happened too was I was in debt from having been sick and not being able to work. So I had credit card debt and and my father had some savings. So we we were able to buy this old house together. So at the point and fix it up together. So when he moved in, you know, I was in debt and I was on medication. After he passed away, the debt was gone, the medication was gone, I was in much better shape, and I had this beautiful home that we had both fixed. So he left me in much better shape. Wow. After he passed away. So wow. Not only did I have all this wonderful emotional healing with my father, but my physical circumstances were much improved. That's and to this day, I'm still I don't have any medications, I don't take any prescriptions.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

That's amazing. That is amazing. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yes. So because I wanted to take care of him, I ended up taking care of myself better.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Better of yourself. Yeah. That that is amazing. What a that's a wow, how transformative that that is that's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

So so even though he was in great health, I still went through major transformations on my end. Yes. Just as you were saying, you have to work on your end. It's like for for us to have this great relationship. I was also working on me at the time, too.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Right. Right, right, exactly. And it's and you do it because you know you are have. Somebody else that's depending on you. I mean, that's that's also motivated me. I mean, I already had these habits, but I I really knew that I had to focus on them because they were depending on me. And so I had to be healthy and and have energy. Somehow I had to have energy just like the energizer bunny, like on and on and on and on. And that was the way to do it, you know. So exactly. It's it's you you change yourself, take care of yourself because you're going to be taking care of somebody else. So so yeah, very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

So, what would you do differently if it were happening now? What would I do differently?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Well, first of all, oh, the big thing is probably nothing, only because I would still not know you, and nobody does really know what they're getting into when because the circumstances, everybody's circumstances are so different, you can't really prepare for the exact thing. However, I would definitely call in hospice much earlier. I would they were fantastic. They worked with me. I certainly, the first 18 months of being there, all through my dad's final days, I was doing it by myself. My sister, uh, my youngest sister was not living with us at that point. She still had her place down in Santa Cruz. And my other sister, of course, had her life with her kids, her children, a couple of miles away. She was close by. They could come up occasionally, but I was doing it all myself. And I had I known, I would have immediately called hospice and had them give me support, just even having somebody there that I could call when something was going wrong, uh, taking some of that stress, that load off my back. Uh, that was really a learning lesson because of course, as most people do, you think of hospice as they're there when it's the final weeks of somebody dying. And that's when they come in. And we did that, of course, that was the thinking. We did that with my dad. And once we called them, they they said, everybody does that, but they are really there all the time. They should, they should be part of anybody that is ill, they can be a part of that, not just when they're dying. They don't have to be officially dying for hospice to come and offer their services. So I that would have helped me tremendously. I that's the one thing I would have done immediately when I moved in. I would have contacted hospice and set up a care with them so they could assist me. And just that would have taken a huge load off my back. And that's what we did with my mom. We we called them in. They were there for they they helped us out for a good two, almost two years before my mom finally passed. And it was a tremendous amount of help that that's and and at that point we're like, God, if only we had known for my dad. So yes, I would say the big thing is a call hospice immediately. They offer so many different services and it's all for free. And uh, yeah, just having somebody on the other end of the line that's knowledgeable to talk to, um, if you're doing it yourself and you're on the front line 24 hours a day, uh, that that is what I would have done differently.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

And they provide equipment too, like the beds that automatically raise, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yes, yes. They they do all of that. And also it depends on your insurance. My my parents were with Kaiser, so some of it was through Kaiser, some of it was through hospice. Uh, but they will work and they will find, you know, they work with a lot of different companies. And so they can go to these companies and arrange for for free uh equipment and and other services. Yes. So so yeah, that's a huge thing. And then it's all for free, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Yes. And uh when my father went into a coma at the end of his life, uh, we called hospice in. They brought a hospital bed, put it, set it up in the living room, and uh gave us supplies. When my father collapsed, I called my sister in Southern California and she flew up immediately. She was there the next day, and actually she got to spend like 72 hours with him before he went into a coma, which was wonderful. And then she took over his care. So only one of us was giving medicine, so we wouldn't over medicate him.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Oh my gosh, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Uh so she took over all his care, and then I was able to, you know, run errands and cook food and uh see clients and do all of that. Hospice, absolutely invaluable. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Yeah, yeah. You cannot overstate that. They are just amazing. And they they should be called in way before the person is is like on their last legs, which is what they they stress to us is like, oh, if only, you know, nobody thinks that they can call us earlier, but but we have all of these services. Uh so that's that's one thing that I would stress to everyone is contact hospice immediately, way before it gets towards the end. Uh and it just uh takes such a load off.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

I'm so glad to hear you say that and to let our listeners know that this is available.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Because every little bit helps.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Oh, it certainly does. I mean, it was a huge relief. And I just, yeah, once once they they came in and started with my dad and told us that, I was like, this whole time I could have been dealing, I could have had somebody there just as a even just as an emotional support. And and uh yeah, it was just like a revelation. Uh and and then of course, you know, then we had that from my mom, and that was that was amazing. So, yes, everybody needs to know that to call hospice way before, way before they're they're they're actually needed, uh, because they can help you so much.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

And knowing what you now know, would you do it all again?

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yes, if I was, yeah, I definitely would, because I had had that uh again uh from your book uh years before. I had that in my head. Boy, at some point when my parents need it, I really want to have that experience with my parents. Yes, and that's the direct result of your book. And I had worked on redesigning the book jacket with you like at least four years before all of this happened. So uh yes, I definitely would do it again because it's it's an experience I knew just from your experience, I knew it was going to be worthwhile. And I also knew it was going to be difficult. But I definitely, I mean, I threw myself into it, and my my living circumstances were such that I could easily just pick up and go move in, which was really fortunate. Just my my life circumstances were at that point in a day, sort of a perfect storm. Um but no, I would definitely do that again. I I I would do it for the first time. I wouldn't do it again if I had to do it all now. I have no more energy left. That that I'm done. I would have nothing left. I would also die at that point because that's how much energy it took. I mean, it literally, we were just you're emotionally wrecked and you're physically wrecked after that many years of doing it. Um and it took a long time to recover from that. But uh, but yes, to have that experience, yeah. For I would definitely, I I would would go right ahead and do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Well, thank you so much, Duke. This is so valuable for people to hear your honest internal experience, especially if they're considering moving in and taking care of their aging loved ones. Yes. Yes, thank you so much. I would say, of course, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Oh, yes, well, let's do it again anytime. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Well, we will see you next episode, everyone. Thank you. Bye. Bye.