Navigating the "Sovereign Citizen"

Welcome to the show where we tackle the tricky situations that can arise at the signing table. In this episode, Eddie Montes Travis and Marylyn Lee Trotter discuss how to handle encounters with individuals identifying as sovereign citizens. Understanding the legal boundaries and maintaining professional composure is essential for every notary's safety and compliance. • Identifying Red Flags: Learn to recognize specific terminology and unusual identification documents often presented by sovereign citizens during a notarization request. • Legal Compliance: Stay focused on your state-mandated duties and understand when a document or identification fails to meet the legal requirements for a valid act. • De-escalation Tactics: Discover practical ways to maintain professionalism and safely conclude an appointment if the situation becomes confrontational or legally questionable. • Reporting and Safety: Understand the proper steps for documenting the encounter and when it is necessary to contact local authorities or your Secretary of State. Dealing with complex legal theories requires a steady hand and a clear mind. By staying informed and sticking to your training, you can protect your commission and your peace of mind. Please make sure to subscribe and like the podcast for more tips on managing difficult notary assignments.

Show Notes:
• How to identify non-standard identification cards.
• Maintaining professional boundaries during tense interactions.
• The importance of adhering strictly to state notary laws.
• Safety protocols for mobile notaries in the field.

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Executive Producer Derrick Spruill
Writers Marylyn Lee Trotter and Eddie Montes Travis
Graphics & Illustrations by Eddie Montes Travis
Music by Thomas Bynum
This Show is Produced by Magnificent Workz
Business Solutions

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Need a blueprint to start your mobile notary business? Don't stumble through the process. You need an outline for success. Introducing the Mobile Notary Blueprint by Derek Spruel. Build your thriving mobile business and protect yourself from costly mistakes with expert advice. Buy your copy of the Mobile Notary Blueprint by Derek Spruel from any online bookstore, Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Booksofmillion.com, Bookshop.org, Mobile Notary by Derek Spruell.com, or download from Kindle and build your successful notary business today. Welcome to Notary Knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Glad to be here for another one.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Yeah, and before we really get moving, I want to remind everyone to check out the Notary Knowledge books by Derek Sproul.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Oh, absolutely. Those are essential if you're taking your commission seriously.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Completely agree. You should also definitely head over to the Notary Knowledge website when you have a minute.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Lots of great resources on there.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

For sure. And uh if you enjoy the show, please rate it, subscribe, and share it with others. It really helps us out.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

It really does. So what are we tackling today?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Well, think about a self-checkout lane at the grocery store for a second.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Okay, I'm picturing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

It functions entirely because of an underlying invisible social contract, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Oh yeah. You scan your stuff, you pay, you leave.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Exactly. The whole system just assumes that like 99% of people are operating in good faith.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Right. Because if people stop playing by those assumed rules, the efficiency we all depend on completely collapses.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Exactly. So imagine what would happen if someone walked up to that grocery scanner, absolutely convinced that the supermarket actually owed them a million dollars.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yeah. They genuinely believe that if they just um punch in a very specific secret string of numbers on the keypad, the register will just pop open and hand them cash.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Which obviously isn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Right. And when the machine inevitably beeps and tells them to insert a credit card, they decide to completely paralyze the store's entire inventory system in retaliation.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

That's that sounds like a nightmare for the manager.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

It is. And today we're taking you into a bizarre alternate reality that operates exactly like that broken supermarket scenario, but on a massive systemic scale.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

We are talking about navigating the sovereign citizen movement, aren't we?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

We are. And we're pulling from a fascinating stack of serious legal and government sources today. I've been reading through guides from the UNC School of Government, the Foreign Affairs Manual. Yeah. Plus warnings from the HUD Office of Inspector General and threat bulletins from the National Notary Association.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

It is a dense collection of material to sort through, but uh it's really necessary. Definitely. We're looking at a decentralized ideology that is quietly clogging up the U.S. legal system and honestly causing millions of dollars in financial damage every single year.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Which is wild, because on the surface, this group might just sound like, you know, a fringe internet conspiracy.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Right. But they're executing what law enforcement officially categorizes as paper terrorism.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Right. So our mission for you, the listener, is to explore how this deeply strange ideology works and analyze the mechanical loopholes they try to exploit.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And most importantly, we need to understand how frontline workers like notaries, real estate agents, county clerks can actually protect themselves.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Because they get unwittingly dragged into these devastating legal schemes all the time.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

They really do. But to grasp why they pose such a unique threat to the legal system, you first have to understand their foundational premise.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah, you have to step inside the alternate reality they believe they inhabit.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Okay, so let's get into it. The core belief of the sovereign citizen movement is that the existing American government is just an illegitimate, fraudulent corporation.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Right. They think the courts, the tax system, local police, all of it is fake.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

And they believe they are completely exempt from its authority.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

That's the baseline, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

But I am genuinely stuck on the mechanics of living day-to-day with this belief. If they think the government is illegitimate, how do they justify using U.S. currency?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Like to buy a cup of coffee or pay rent.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Exactly. How does that work in their minds?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

That is where the cognitive gymnastics come in. It's wild. The specific historical mythology they've built to justify this is um incredibly intricate.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Okay, walk me through it.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Well, the prevailing theory traces back to the 1930s, specifically when the United States abandoned the gold standard.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Oh, right. I remember reading about FDR's executive orders regarding gold, but how does that connect to modern legal immunity?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

So, according to sovereign ideology, when the federal government stopped backing its currency with actual gold, it suddenly needed new collateral.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Collateral for what?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

To cover the country's massive debts to foreign investors. So they believe the government began using its own flesh and blood citizens as that collateral.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Wait, literally using people as collateral.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yes. The theory goes that whenever a baby is born in the U.S., the government creates a secret treasury account in that child's name. Oh wow. And they think this account is funded with anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

And so to manage this secret corporate account, the government supposedly creates a fictitious corporate shell identity for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Exactly. They refer to the shell as the straw man.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

The straw man. And the way they prove this straw man exists is actually quite clever in a twisted way.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Oh, you mean the font thing?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah. They point to the fact that your name is almost always written in all caps on official documents, like your birth certificate, your driver's license.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Your W-2 tax forms, everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Right. So they draw a hard line between the physical living human and the all-caps corporate straw man.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, and when they use U.S. currency or engage with the economy, they claim they are merely acting as an authorized, reluctant agent for that corporate straw man.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

So they aren't participating as their true sovereign self.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Precisely.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

It honestly sounds like someone who thinks they've discovered a developer cheat code in a video game.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

That is the perfect way to describe it.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

They are utterly convinced that if they just use the right magic words or format their signature in a highly specific way, they can unlock this secret treasury account.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

And discharge all their mortgages, clear their credit card debt.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Just become completely untouchable by the rules of the game.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

That video game analogy really captures the psychology at play. But it is also crucial to note that sovereign citizen is just an umbrella term.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Right. It's not like one central club you join.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

No, not at all. This isn't a highly organized group with a central leader or a headquarters. It is a wildly decentralized spectrum of adherence.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

So you have individuals who fall down an internet rabbit hole just trying to get out of a municipal traffic ticket.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

All the way up to extreme anti-government militias.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Now, I was looking through our notes, and there was a mention of a 1787 treaty with Morocco.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

How on earth does an 18th-century treaty factor into someone trying to get out of a modern speeding ticket?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Well, you're referring to a specific faction often associated with Moorish science temple adherence or the Moorish nation. Okay. Some followers of this specific ideology claim that a 1787 treaty of peace and friendship between the U.S. and Morocco grants them special diplomatic immunity.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Immunity from American laws today.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Exactly. And others might claim to hold fictitious seats at the United Nations for indigenous peoples.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

So there are a bunch of different flavors to it.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, but despite the different flavors of the mythology, they all share the exact same quasi-legal belief regarding the all-caps straw man.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

And the illegitimate corporate government. But that raises a massive logical contradiction for me. If these individuals completely reject the authority of the U.S. government and view it as a fake corporation, why are they so obsessed with filing official government paperwork?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

That is the big question.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Like why interact with the county clerk's office at all?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Well, it reveals a fascinating psychological quirk. They reject the statutory government, the actual laws passed by legislatures, but they deeply believe in their own highly distorted, almost mystical version of common law.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Aaron Powell Okay, so in their minds, government forms and public registries possess an inherent binding power.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yes. Since they don't believe in the government's physical authority, they attack it by weaponizing its own bureaucratic infrastructure against it.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Oh, they use the weight of the system to crush the system.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Exactly. Hence the term paper terrorism.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

That makes total sense now.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, they flood clerks, courts, and real estate offices with hundreds of pages of nonsensical pseudo-legal documents.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

And one of their absolute favorite tools for this is the UCC, the Uniform Commercial Code.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Oh, they love the UCC.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

I need you to break down this concept for me because the sources mentioned it repeatedly. From what I understand, the Uniform Commercial Code is just a standard set of laws for business transactions.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Aaron Powell Right, across state lines.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

So how do you weaponize commercial code?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Well, think of a UCC financing statement as a public bulletin board for debts. Okay. If you finance a tractor for your farm, the bank files a UCC statement to publicly declare, hey, we have a financial interest in this specific tractor until the loan is paid. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Standard stuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Right. But sovereign citizens file wildly fraudulent UCC statements claiming that they, the physical person, have a secured financial interest in their own corporate straw man account.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Aaron Ross Powell Wow. But don't these filings eventually expire or get rejected by the state?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Aaron Ross Powell, you'd think so, but they exploit incredibly niche loopholes to prevent that. Legitimate UCC rules allow certain entities, like interstate railroads, to file as a transmitting utility.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Aaron Powell Like transmitting utility.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah. Because a railroad operates continuously across multiple jurisdictions, a transmitting utility filing never lapses or expires.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Aaron Powell Oh no. So use that.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Sovereign citizens will routinely check the transmitting utility box on their bogus forms just to ensure their fake liens become a permanent, unexpiring nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Aaron Ross Powell That is so devious. And the chaos goes way beyond just annoying clerks with weird forms.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Way beyond.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

The Department of Housing and Urban Development's Office of Inspector General the HUD OIG put out a massive warning about real estate scams.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

The real estate stuff is terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

I am definitely not a real estate lawyer, so explain this to me. The sources mention sovereiglaim deeds to steal properties. What is a quit claim deed?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

It's actually a very simple legal document used to transfer whatever interest you have in a property to someone else.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Okay, but how does that lead to theft?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Because it makes absolutely no guarantees about the title. If I sign a quit claim deed giving you my interest in the Brooklyn Bridge, you now own exactly what I owned.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Which is zero percent.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Exactly, zero percent. But the crucial vulnerability is that county recorders operate purely in an administrative capacity.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Aaron Powell Wait, so county clerks operate like a library book return drop box?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Like the box doesn't open the book to read the plot or see if it actually belongs to that specific library. It just takes whatever you shove into the slot.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Aaron Powell That is a brilliant way to picture it. The public record system assumes you're acting in good faith. The clerk's office is an administrative repository, not an investigative agency.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So if the form is filled out correctly and the fee is paid, they just stamp it.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

They stamp it and record it into the public record. So sovereign citizens find a vacant or foreclosed home, file a quick claim deed, transferring the property from the bank to themselves, and simply move in.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

They just move into a vacant house.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

They change the locks and set up an alarm system.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Aaron Powell That is wild. And the HUD OIG report detailed instances where they were not only squatting, but illegally renting out these stolen properties.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Trevor Burrus To unsuspecting low-income tenants using Section 8 government vouchers.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Trevor Burrus The government ended up having to prosecute to recover over $17 million in voucher funds in one four-year period.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Aaron Powell It's a staggering amount of fraud built on a single piece of unverified paper.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Trevor Burrus But the paper terrorism gets incredibly vindictive, right? Like when a public official crosses them.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Oh, absolutely. If a judge rules against them or a police officer writes them a ticket, the retaliation is severe. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

They file massive, completely baseless financial alliances against the personal property of that official. We are talking about fake liens for $10, $20, sometimes $50 million.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

It's purely to cause pain.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

But here is what I don't understand about the retaliation. So a judge has a $10 million lien placed on their family home.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Why can't that judge just call the county clerk and say, I'm a sitting judge, this person is a known sovereign citizen, delete this garbage document for my property file.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Because that would violate the fundamental principle of due process.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Really? Even for an obvious fake.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah. The clerk does not have the judicial authority to unilaterally declare a file document invalid, even if it looks absurd. Wow. Once that lien is in the system, it clouds the victim's property title. If that judge tries to sell their house or refinance their mortgage, the title search flags a $50 million debt.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

So the transaction is instantly blocked.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Instantly. It ruins the victim's credit score, and it takes incredible amounts of time, stress, and legal fees to force the courts to formally expunge the fake record.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Which brings us to the front lines of this bureaucratic war. To file these fake documents, the bogus deeds, the retaliatory liards, they need them to look official.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yes, they inevitably need to get those documents authenticated.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

And that puts notaries public directly in the crosshairs.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Absolutely. Notaries are the foundational gatekeepers of public trust in document execution. Sovereign citizens actively hunt for notaries to place an official state seal on their pseudo-legal gibberish.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Here's where it gets really interesting because the irony is just off the charts.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Oh, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

You have someone who loudly claims the state is an illegal, fraudulent corporation aggressively seeking out a state commissioned notary public to authenticate a document declaring they are exempt from the state.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

The cognitive dissonance is staggering to an outsider. But within their belief system, that state notary stamp is the literal magic spell that activates the document's power in the common law realm.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

So if you are a notary or a bank teller or a clerk, how do you spot them before they hijack your stamp?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

You have to know what to look for.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Our sources outline some incredibly specific visual clues.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Very distinctive markers. Because they are obsessed with separating the living soul from the corporate straw man, they heavily favor red ink.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Right, because they view red as symbolized in the blood of a living human.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Exactly. You will see them signing documents exclusively in red ink, or literally pressing a red ink thumbprint onto the paper next to their name.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

I've also heard you'll notice highly unusual punctuation disrupting their names. Or they will append suffixes like El Bay or Noble.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Which is particularly common within the Moorish Nation factions we discussed earlier.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

And their mailing addresses are a dead giveaway too, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yes. They'll put their zip code in brackets, like bracket, one, two, three, four, five, bracket.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Or they'll use the word near before the city name, like near Seattle.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Putting brackets around the zip code is their legal strategy for signifying that they are physically located outside of federal postal jurisdiction.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

While still technically receiving the mail, of course.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Right, naturally.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

You'll also see bizarre legal catchphrases sprinkled randomly throughout the text. Terms like sui jurious, accepted for value, or without prejudice.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

They might even put a copyright symbol next to their own name, claiming they have trademarked their physical body.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

But the most immediate red flag occurs during the identity verification phase, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Always. When a notary asks them for ID, which is a fundamental requirement of the job, they frequently present completely fictitious identification cards.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

The sources list things like a homemade world passport or an official-looking ID from the MUR Republic or the Free State Republic.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And if you ask for a standard state driver's license, they will aggressively refuse.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

They claim that carrying a state ID enters them into a commercial contract with the illegitimate government.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

But hold on. Aren't notaries supposed to be completely impartial public servants?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

They are.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

If I walk into a bank and want a completely ridiculous, legally meaningless letter to my neighbor notarized, as long as I have my valid ID, doesn't the notary have to do it?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

That raises a really important question about the legal boundaries of a public commission.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Because they can't police my weird political beliefs.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Right. Under traditional law, a notary's duty is ministerial. They are primarily there to verify the identity of the signer and confirm they are signing willingly.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

So they don't judge the legal validity or the contents of the document itself?

SPEAKER_00 17:17

They don't. In many jurisdictions, refusing service based on personal bias or a disagreement with the document's content can actually lead to the notary losing their commission.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

So the notary is trapped. They see a blatantly fraudulent $30 million lien against a police officer, and they are legally forced to stamp it.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

No, and that is a crucial distinction that authorities are trying to clarify.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

While a notary cannot evaluate the content for legal perfection, they have a superseding, overriding duty to prevent obvious fraud.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

You are never required to be blindly obedient to a scam.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Exactly. Federal and state governments are finally recognizing the threat and passing specific rules to give notaries the legal cover they need to say no.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Let's look at how that legislative fight is playing out state by state. At the federal level, the U.S. State Department is incredibly blunt.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Oh, they don't mess around.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

They explicitly direct all embassies and consulates to refuse notary services for any documents claiming sovereignty, immunity, or relinquishment of citizenship. They literally tell their diplomats, do not touch this.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

And state legislatures are realizing they have to follow suit. Mississippi, for example, instituted Administrative Rule 5.6.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

What does that do?

SPEAKER_00 18:31

It explicitly requires notaries to refuse a notarization if they have good reason to believe the act is for an unlawful or improper purpose.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

So it mandates that the notary perform a superficial check to ensure they aren't participating in a fraud scheme.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Exactly. And Oregon tackled it by passing House Bill 2253. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Right. That law explicitly allows the Secretary of State and individual notaries to refuse to certify documents that claim allegiance to a fake government.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Or claim immunity from state law.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

California takes a different approach, right? By building the defense into their strict compliance standards for identification.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. California law mandates that a notary absolutely must have a valid, state-approved, government-issued ID to proceed. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

So when the individual slides a world passport or a MUR republic card across the counter.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

It triggers an automatic procedural refusal. The notary doesn't even need to argue about the crazy document or the sovereign ideology.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

One just fall back on the statute. Like without a valid state-issued ID, I am legally prohibited from proceeding.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Which is the safest way to handle it.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Which brings us to the physical reality of these encounters. What happens at the counter when you say no?

SPEAKER_00 19:40

It gets tense.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Refusing service to someone deeply entrenched in this ideology is incredibly risky. Our sources, including FBI threat assessments, note that these encounters can escalate rapidly.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Sovereign citizens are highly confrontational.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

So how does a professional protect themselves in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

The primary rule of operational security is never debate the law with them.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Do not engage in the pseudo-legal argument.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Never. They have a rehearsed script, they often record the interaction on their smartphones, hoping for a viral confrontation.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

They desperately want to draw you into their twisted logic maze.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Exactly. A professional has to remain completely neutral and stick exclusively to objective statutory requirements. Simply repeat, state law prohibits me from proceeding without a valid state ID.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Another massive vulnerability of the sources emphasize is the physical notary stamp itself.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Oh, that is huge.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

If a sovereign citizen manages to snatch a notary stamp off the desk during an argument, it is a catastrophic security breach.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

They can use that stolen stamp to commit massive real estate fraud, forging the notary seal on dozens of fake deeds from their living room.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Those stamps must be locked away the second they aren't being used. Like we talked about in prior shows, securing your tools is day one stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Along with securing the stamp, maintaining a meticulous chronological notary journal is vital.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Because if they file a retaliatory lawsuit against you.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Or if law enforcement is investigating a forged quick claim deed down the line, that physical journal is your ultimate defense.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

It proves you followed the law, checked the appropriate IDs, and operated strictly by the book.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Alright, before we move on to the systemic defense, let's jump into one of my favorite segments. Good question. What would you do?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Oh, I love these.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

We've got some wild scenarios sent in by listeners. Let's start with Violet in Texas. She asks, What do you do if a signer shows up with a live parrot on their shoulder and he keeps squawking over the oath?

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Oh wow. Well, you have to verify willingness and competence. If the parrot is a distraction, politely ask them to step outside or put the bird in another room for a minute. You need a clear verbal affirmation.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Makes sense. Okay, Eli in Maine. He says he got snowed in at a signer's house during a massive blizzard after finishing the paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Oh no. Boundaries are key here. You stay professional. If you absolutely cannot drive safely, you maintain a polite distance, maybe wait in the living room or your car if it's safe to run the heater, but keep it strictly business until the plow comes.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Right. Aurora in Washington asks, What if the signer spills a massive cup of coffee all over the document right before they sign?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

You need a clean copy. You cannot notarize a damaged, illegible document. Print a new one or have them get a new one and start the process over.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Julian in Alabama writes, I knock on the door for a mobile signing and the signer answered completely naked. What would you do?

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Turn around and walk away immediately. Your personal safety and professional boundaries come first. You just leave.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Fair enough. Last one, Sadie in Oklahoma. She says, I was doing an agricultural loan signing in a barn, and a literal bull blocked the only exit.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

A bull. Listen, you don't mess with an angry bull. Again, safety first. Wait for the farmer to secure the animal. Never risk your life for a signature.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Honestly, great advice across the board. So getting back to our topic, that handles the immediate danger at the counter. Right. But what about the systemic defense? If traditional civil lawsuits against sovereign citizens fail because they ignore the courts or just don't have money to pay damages, how does the system fight back?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

The legislative landscape has had to completely adapt to the fact that civil remedies are useless against paper terrorism.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

So what are they doing?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

37 states have now enacted laws making the filing of fraudulent liens a specific criminal offense.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Oh, okay. Like North Carolina, they enacted a statute making it a Class I felony to knowingly file a false lien against a public officer.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Right. And Nebraska makes it a Class IV felony. Their law is incredibly broad, covering any attempt to harass or obstruct a government operation with fake paperwork.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

That legislative shift is profound. It moves the burden away from the victim.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Exactly. Instead of a targeted judge having to hire a private civil lawyer to clear their name, the state steps in and prosecutes the filing as a criminal act.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

However, even with these criminal laws, a notary or a clerk might still get sued personally by one of these adherents, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Oh, definitely. The lawsuits are entirely frivolous, but you still have to hire an attorney to get a judge to officially dismiss it.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Which is exactly why our sources strongly recommend errors and omissions insurance, commonly called Eno insurance.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Absolutely essential.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

A standard notary surety bond only protects the public if the notary makes a mistake. But ENO insurance protects the notary's personal bank account.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

It covers the legal defense costs against these bogus sovereign citizen lawsuits. It has essentially become hazard pay for anyone dealing with public document verification.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

It is a necessary shield. The era of assuming every individual interacting with the bureaucracy is doing so in good faith is unfortunately coming to an end in many respects.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

It really is.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

We started this journey talking about what happens when a fringe internet theory about secret gold standard bank accounts in all caps, straw men, collides with the real world.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And we see it transforms from a quirky rabbit hole into a tangible systemic threat.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

It creates living nightmares for innocent property owners facing vague eviction deeds.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

And for judges and police officers dealing with ruined credit from retaliatory lanes.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

And for notaries just trying to do their job safely.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

It's a huge burden on everyone.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

And it leaves us with something really provocative to think about regarding the future of our institutions.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

What's that?

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Well, the analog paper terrorism we discussed today takes a lot of manual effort, right? Typing up 50-page liens, finding notaries, physically mailing documents to clerks.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Yeah, it's labor-intensive.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

But we are rapidly entering an era of generative AI and automated language models.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

If a single person armed with a typewriter and a twisted ideology can cause millions of dollars in the damage to our public recording system today, what happens when they hook this ideology up to an AI?

SPEAKER_00 25:58

That's that's a terrifying thought.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Does paper terrorism evolve into an automated, infinite denial of service attack on our courts and property records?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

How would local governments even survive that?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

When the generation of flawless, fake legal documents takes milliseconds instead of hours, it's definitely something to mull over the next time you sign a mundane piece of official paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Well, remember, if you have questions or bizarre scenarios of your own, email your questions to Derek at dereksbruel.com. We will try to answer as soon as possible at the end of our shows.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Then them in. We love reading them.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Big thanks to our team. Executive producer Derek Spruell, lead writer Marilyn Lee Trotter, graphics by Eddie Montes Travis, music by Thomas Bynum, and produced by Magnificent Works Business Solutions.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Great team.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Don't just be listeners of the knowledge, be doers of the knowledge. This is notary knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Until next time. To obtain more notary knowledge, explore the full collection of books by Derek Spruel and find the perfect book for your notary business. Visit any online bookstore, Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Bookofmillion.com, Bookshop.org, Mobile Notary by DerekSproul.com, or download from Kindle to obtain your essential notary book to help with all your notarization starting today.