Foundational Fridays: Handling Multiple Signers

Managing a room full of people can be one of the most challenging parts of being a notary. Join Eddie Montes Travis and Marylyn Lee Trotter as they break down the essential steps for keeping your cool and your records straight when dealing with multiple signers. Whether it is a couple signing loan docs or a family settling an estate, organization is your best friend.

• ID Verification: Ensure you check and record the identification for every single person involved in the transaction before any ink hits the paper to maintain strict legal compliance.
• Seating Arrangement: Learn why positioning yourself and your signers strategically can prevent confusion and help you maintain control over the flow of documents during the appointment.
• Journal Entries: Discover the best practices for managing multiple entries in your notary journal to ensure every signature is properly accounted for and easily searchable later.
• Communication Skills: Understand how to give clear, concise instructions to a group so that everyone knows exactly where and when they need to sign without feeling rushed.

Mastering the art of the multi-signer appointment will help you provide a faster, more professional service to your clients. By staying organized and following these foundational tips, you can handle any size group with confidence. Please be sure to subscribe and like the podcast to stay updated on all our latest tips!

Show Notes:
• Proven methods for verifying multiple identities efficiently.
• Tips for managing the physical layout of a multi-person signing.
• How to accurately document group signings in your notary journal.
• Professional communication techniques for handling groups.

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Notary Public Foundation: Essential Guide to Core Duties, Ethics, and Commissioning on Amazon

Your Monday Notary Reading:
Notary Operational Excellence: Mastering Certificates, Journals, Ink, and Copy Certification on Amazon

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Notary Fraud Shield: Real-World Tactics, Red Flags, and Refusal Strategies on Amazon

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The Mobile Notary Blueprint: Launching and Managing Your On-Demand Business on Amazon

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Notary Niche Navigator: Your Guide to Loan Signings, Apostilles, I-9s, and More on Amazon

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Notary Law & Liability: Understanding State Regulations, Insurance, and Avoiding UPL

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Executive Producer Derrick Spruill
Writers Marylyn Lee Trotter and Eddie Montes Travis
Graphics & Illustrations by Eddie Montes Travis
Music by Thomas Bynum
This Show is Produced by Magnificent Workz
Business Solutions

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Are you an aspiring notary looking to join millions of other notaries? Start your journey with the Notary Public Foundation by Derek Spruell. This essential guide provides the step-by-step process to becoming commissioned in your state. Don't stumble into the role. Walk into it with confidence. Grab your copy of the Notary Public Foundation by Derek Spruell on Amazon today.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Imagine walking into a really cramped corporate boardroom. You've got 15 executives talking over each other, passing a single, massive stack of contracts around like a hot potato.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Oh, yeah. A nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Right. And you are the only thing standing between them in a valid notarization. I mean, your pulse spikes, you just feel completely overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Well, welcome to Notary Knowledge. I'm Marilyn.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And I'm Eddie.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Whether you are just getting your feet wet in the industry, prepping for your first official appointment, or, you know, you're an entry-level professional looking to build a rock solid foundation, you are in exactly the right place. We designed this specific conversation with you in mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah, and if you've been following along with our prior discussions, you know, we spent quite a bit of time uh covering the mechanics of the single signer journal entry.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

We really did.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Right. We talked about how to handle that one-on-one interaction when it's just you, a piece of paper, and one person sitting quietly across the desk. It's clean, it's controlled, and you know, it's entirely predictable. Which is nice. But today, we are taking the natural next step in our Foundational Friday series, and that is handling multiple signers.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

The funds desk.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Exactly. The goal here is to demystify the chaos of group notarizations. We will break down the physical logistics, the paperwork pitfalls, and the digital rules so you can handle any multi-signer situation, like completely like a pro.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Because I mean, transitioning from a single signer to a complex group environment changes absolutely everything. Just think about a corporate board resolution or a joint property deed or a sprawling family estate plan.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Oh, the estate plans are always so much paperwork.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Right. The opportunity for procedural errors, or worse, document fraud, it just skyrockets the moment a second person enters the room.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So true. So let's tackle the physical challenge first. The absolute cornerstone of a valid notarization, the golden rule we always come back to, is direct unassisted communication with the signer.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Yes, always.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

But how do you maintain that when you walk into a room with like six people who all need a sign? I always kind of compare it to being a bouncer at an exclusive club.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

That's a great way to put it.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

You know, you are working the velvet rope. You cannot just unhook the rove and wave a group of six inside all at once. You have to stop the line, look at one person, check their ID, verify they are on the list, and then let them in. And only then do you move to person number two.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yeah, that bouncer analogy perfectly illustrates the goal here, which is maintaining environmental control. The standard protocol for this from the sources is what we call the station system.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

The station system.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Right. So when you walk into a group setting, the very first thing you do is establish authority. You greet the group and clearly explain the rules of engagement. You might say something like, Um, I will be checking IDs one at a time. Please do not sign anything until I specifically direct you to.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I have to admit, though, for a novice walking into a room of older, perhaps wealthier or more experienced professionals and kind of, well, barking orders, it sounds incredibly intimidating.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

There's a lot of psychological friction there.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Aaron Powell It is super daunting at first. But the trick is to frame it around your legal obligation, not your ego. You aren't bossing them around. You are protecting the integrity of their document.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Aaron Powell Right. That reframing helps a lot.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Yeah. And once you set those boundaries, you process them sequentially. You call each signer up individually, you check their ID, ask the necessary questions to verify their willingness to sign, and walk them through the journal and the document.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

And keeping control of the paper itself is huge here, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

It's crucial. Here is a massive logistical detail. If multiple people are signing the same document, you, the notary, keep physical control of it. You slide it over to signer one, they sign, and you pull it back.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Okay, so you don't let it go.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Never. Then you slide it to signer two. You never let them pass the document around the table themselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Because if they start passing it down the line, you lose track of who signed what, and you might accidentally skip someone's journal entry. Which actually brings up a really frequent question from newer professionals. Say a husband and wife are sitting in front of me, signing the exact same massive stack of refinance papers. Can I write the husband's information out in my journal? And then for the wife's entry right below it, just use like ditto marks. Um like just writing same as above. I mean, it would save 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

It is incredibly tempting, I know, but you must resist that urge. This is where state laws really diverge, but the underlying principle remains the same.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Okay. What do the states say?

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Well, in California, the law strictly forbids ditto marks, shorthand, or even drawing a single diagonal line through multiple entries. They require full, distinct line entries for every single document and every single person.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Wow, every single line. Why are they so rigid about that? It just seems like an unnecessary amount of repetitive writing.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

It is entirely about fraud prevention and forensic handwriting analysis.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Yeah. Imagine a scenario where a signature is challenged in court like a decade from now. A handwriting expert needs a complete isolated signature on a specific detailed line item to analyze the stroke pressure and pacing.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

If you just have a giant diagonal line with a bunch of scribbles next to some ditto marks, it is legally deficient.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

That makes perfect sense when you put it like that.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Aaron Powell Now, a state like Washington is slightly more lenient. They do allow some shorthand for multiple notarizations in the single transaction. But universally, the gold standard that protects you in a deposition is one complete, legible, standalone journal entry per person, per document. No shortcuts.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Protect yourself. Write it out. I love that. So let's move from the journal to the actual paperwork, specifically the notarial certificate.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

I always tell new professionals that the certificate is essentially your official set of instructions. It tells you exactly what notarial act you're performing. But here is the classic conundrum that terrifies people new to the field.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

You have a document, and the preprinted certificate at the bottom says, acknowledged before me by John Doe, Jane Smith, and Robert Johnson.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Okay. Three people.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Right. But Robert Johnson didn't show up. He is stuck in traffic. So you just have John and Jane. Do you have to send everyone home?

SPEAKER_03 6:43

No, thankfully the deal doesn't fall apart, but you do have to modify that certificate so it accurately reflects reality. A notarial certificate is like a sealed time capsule.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

A time capsule. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Yeah, it records precisely what happened in front of you at one exact moment in time. So you must strike through the pre-printed names on the certificate with a single diagonal line, initial that change, and then write in the names of the signers who are physically present, followed by the word only in all capital letters.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Okay. So it would literally read, Acknowledged before me by John Doe and Jane Smith only.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Precisely. And there's another crucial fraud prevention detail here from our source guidelines. When you write those names in, you will inevitably have blank white space left over in that name block.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Right, because Robert is missing.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Right. You need to fill that remaining negative space with a solid border of X's or a heavy line.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

I assume that prevents someone from squeezing Robert Johnson's name in there tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

That is exactly the mechanism. Without those X's, someone trying to bypass the system could fraudulently write Robert's name into that white space, making it look like you notarized his signature too.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Wow, yeah. You can't have that.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

The unbreakable rule of this profession is that you can never add on to an existing completed certificate. If Robert Johnson shows up the next day, he cannot sign his name next to John and Jane's on your old certificate.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

He needs his own.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

He requires a brand new, separate, properly dated certificate reflecting the actual day he appeared before you.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

The time capsule analogy really helps visualize why we lock that document down. Let's take a brief pause here. Just a moment to take a breath and let the physical logistics, you know, the bouncer strategy, the Ditto Mark rules, the time capsule certificate, let all that really sink in.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Yeah, it is a lot of information to absorb, but mastering the physical world is really only half the battle today.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Right, because now we have to jump into the digital realm. Let's talk about remote online notarization or ARN. How do group signings function when people aren't even in the same room, let alone the same state?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Well, it requires a completely different logistical framework, but the good news is the platforms have built-in architecture to handle it. The guidelines break this down into three distinct modalities for digital group signings.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Okay, what's the first one?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

The first is co-located. This is where everyone is actually in the same physical room, sharing one device and one camera to connect with the notary. Think of a married couple sitting on their living room couch sharing a single laptop.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Okay, yeah, that one seems straightforward enough.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

It is. The second is concurrent. This is where up to ten different devices join the same live video sessions simultaneously. Everyone is in different locations, maybe a board of directors scattered across the country, but they are all completing the signing on the same live call.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

And the third.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

And the third is split signing, where signers meet with the notary at completely different times in entirely separate virtual sessions, which eventually results in one fully executed document.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Wait, I have to push back on that concurrent modality for a second.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Sure. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

If I am hosting a virtual room with ten people scattered across the country, and we are all staring at the exact same digital document on our screens, well, why can't they all just click the sign button at the exact same time to get it over with? Like working on a shared cloud document.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

I get why you'd think that, but the software actually will not allow it, and for really good reason. Platforms like Proof or Cygnix operate on a strict sequential routing engine.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Sequential routing.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Yeah. They utilize what's called an email hold. The first person in the sequence gets an email, they click the link, pass their identity checks, join the call, and sign their portions.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

While they are doing that, the system is actively holding everyone else's emails. Only after signer one is completely finished does the system automatically fire off the email to signer two.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

So they are literally waiting in a digital line. What do the other nine people see while signer one is going through the motions?

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Usually just a waiting room screen. They must go in order, one by one, and the notary is also locked out of signing until every single participant has finished. The notary always signs absolutely last.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

This stripped sequencing prevents system conflicts, ensures the digital audit trail is linear, and it guarantees the integrity of the execution order. The software essentially acts as the bouncer.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

The digital bouncer. I love it. Well, it is time for our favorite segment of Foundational Fridays. Good question. What would you do?

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Awesome, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

This is where we take specific real-world scenarios sent in by you, our listeners, and test the official guidelines against the messiness of real life. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_03 11:22

I am so ready. Bring it on.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Okay, our first scenario comes from Steve in Washington. Steve arrives at a client's home for a signing, and the married couple is aggressively arguing. Like they are full-blown yelling at each other about the financial terms in the document they are about to sign. As a new notary, the urge to just melt into the floorboard is strong. So what should Steve do?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Oh, poor Steve. Well, Steve has to intervene, which I know is incredibly uncomfortable, but one of our core duties is verifying not just identity, but willingness and competence.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Right. Willingness is key.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

If there is coercion, duress, or one dominant individual pressuring someone else, the notary must hit the brakes.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

But how does he actually do that without escalating a domestic dispute?

SPEAKER_03 12:07

You blame the rule book. Steve can say something like, My state guidelines require me to speak with each signer individually.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Oh, that's smart.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Right. He sends the husband out of the room, makes some small talk with the wife, and asks directly if she is signing of her own free will. If the arguing resumes the very moment they are back together, Steve is legally authorized and really ethically obligated to refuse the notarization entirely.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

If it is not voluntary, it is not valid. Let's pivot slightly. What if it hasn't an intentional conflict but just a sudden absence?

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

So Rita from Nevada has an appointment for a joint property deed requiring both a husband and a wife. When she arrives, only the husband is present. The wife had a medical emergency and had to leave. What is the protocol?

SPEAKER_03 12:50

This is the missing signer rule in action that we talked about earlier. Rita proceeds with the husband. She crosses out the preprinted certificate, initials it, and writes the husband's name, followed by the word only.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

And the X's.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Yes. Then she draws her heavy border of X's in the negative space. The wife will either need to complete a digital split signing later, or physically meet with Rita or another notary for a separate session with a brand new certificate.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Perfect. So we've covered physical conflict and missing persons. Now let's look at sheer volume. Oh boy. Sue from Georgia walks into a corporate break room, and there are 15 new employees all holding onboarding packets. People are talking, moving around, swapping pens. How does she survive that without losing her mind?

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Sue needs to act like an air traffic controller right away. She has to take command the second she enters, give instructions loudly and clearly, pre-number the seating slots, or use a sign-in sheet to track the arrival order.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Okay, get organized fast.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Exactly. Bring extra pens, ensuring they all have the exact same ink color to keep the legal documents uniform. And most importantly, she calls them up one by one, verifies the ID, watches them sign, and completes the journal entry right there before calling the next person. She cannot let the documents leave her desk.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

That makes total sense.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

All right, let's switch from physical chaos to digital gridlock. Hal from Texas is hosting a digital concurrent signing. Everyone is in the video room, but one signer cannot remember the answers to their identity trivia questions, bringing the whole virtual room to a halt. Can Hal just bypass that person and come back to them later?

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Unfortunately, no. This involves knowledge-based authentication, or KBA. It generates trivia questions based on a person's social security number or ITNN, their individual taxpayer identification number.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Like credit check type stuff.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Right. It pulls past addresses or old car loan data. If a signer fails that trivia, standard platforms enforce a strict 24-hour lockout.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Wow, a full 24 hour seems excessively punitive. Why not just a 10-minute timeout?

SPEAKER_03 14:53

It comes down to data security. The 24-hour window prevents bad actors from using brute force guessing to crack someone's identity profile. Furthermore, these platforms ping major credit bureaus to generate the questions, and those APIs require a full daily cycle to reset a failed attempt. Because the routing engine is sequential, like we discussed, you cannot stip the locked-out person. The sequence is broken. The whole group must wait until a resolution is found, which usually means reconvening the next day.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

That is so frustrating for the clients, but the security protocol dictates the flow. Okay, final scenario. What if the ID issue isn't digital trivia but just an expired physical card?

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Okay, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Chris from Illinois is working with an elderly signer whose only form of ID expired five years ago. State law requires ID to be unexpired or issued within the last three years. The signer has no valid ID. Is Chris just out of luck?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Not necessarily. This is where Chris introduces the credible witness protocol. I like to think of the credible witness as a human ID card.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

A human ID card.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Yeah. It is an impartial third party who personally knows the signer and takes a formal, verbal oath swearing to the signer's identity. They also have to sign the notary's journal.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

But wait, how do you verify the human ID card?

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Well, that is the complex part because interstate variance is massive here. In a state like California, the credible witness must present their own physical valid ID to the notary to prove they are who they say they are.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

But in a state like Indiana, the laws differ so much that they actually allow a signer to just take an oath of personal identity under certain circumstances. So Chris in Illinois must consult the specific credible witness requirements for his jurisdiction. But fundamentally, the credible witness bridges the gap when a physical ID fails.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

The human ID card is a brilliant way to conceptualize that. Well, this brings us perfectly to the end of our discussion today. We really want to encourage you to keep building your expertise. Absolutely. And a fantastic way to do that is to invest in the Notary Knowledge Books by Derek Spruell on Amazon. Specifically, look into his Day of the Week series, titles like The Notary Public Foundation or Notary Operational Excellence. They're just invaluable resources to keep on your desk. Also, visit the Notary Knowledge website for more tools. If you found value in this, please rate the show, subscribe, and share it with a colleague who might be struggling with group signings.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

We build these conversations around what you encounter in the field. We really need your stories and your friction points.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yes, please email your questions to Derek at DerekSprill.com. We will try to answer as soon as possible at the end of our shows. Send us your wildest scenarios.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Before we go, I want to leave you with a thought to mull over, building on what we discussed regarding digital KBA trivia. With major data leaks happening constantly, traditional identity trivia questions are becoming obsolete. Our personal history, past addresses, car loans, it's just too public now. These systems are rapidly being replaced by biometric selfie scans and AI facial recognition.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

That's a huge shift.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

It is, and it raises a profound question. As we transition entirely to algorithms to verify someone's identity, are we losing the human element of assessment? What happens to our most vulnerable signers when the algorithm inevitably gets it wrong?

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Wow, that is a heavy, necessary question for where this industry is heading. When the machine replaces the bouncer, who checks the machine? Let's read the credits. Exec producer Derek Sprohl, lead writer Marilyn Lee Trotter, graphics Eddie Montes Travis, music Thomas Bynum, produced by Magnificent Works Business Solutions.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Don't just be listeners of the knowledge, be doers of the knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

This is Notary Knowledge. Until next time. Since you started your notary business, strive for excellence. Introducing the book Notary Operational Excellence by Derek Spruel. Build your business on a beacon of precision and trust with expert advice. Check out Notary Operational Excellence by Derek Spruell from Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, Books A Million, Bookshop.org, Mobile Notary by DerekSprowel.com, or download from Kindle today.