ROI of Continuing Education

Is your business growing at the pace you want, or have you hit a plateau? In this episode, Eddie Montes Travis and Marylyn Lee Trotter explore the tangible benefits of investing in yourself. We look at how staying updated on laws and new technology can directly boost your income and professional standing. • Skill Mastery: Learning advanced techniques helps you avoid costly errors that can result in lost clients or legal issues. • Market Expansion: New certifications allow you to offer more services, such as specialized loan signings or specialty general notary work. • Efficiency Gains: Modern training often introduces tools that save time, letting you handle more appointments in a single day. • Professional Credibility: Clients trust experts who can demonstrate they are current with industry standards and local regulations. Investing in your education is not just a cost; it is a way to build a more sustainable and profitable career. By focusing on constant improvement, you set yourself apart from the competition. Please subscribe and like the podcast to stay updated on how to grow your business.

Show Notes:
• Benefits of ongoing learning for career longevity.
• How education increases earnings through service expansion.
• Avoiding costly errors through better training.
• Expanding service offerings into niche markets.

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Executive Producer Derrick Spruill
Writers Marylyn Lee Trotter and Eddie Montes Travis
Graphics & Illustrations by Eddie Montes Travis
Music by Thomas Bynum
This Show is Produced by Magnificent Workz
Business Solutions

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Know the notary laws and safeguard your notary business. Introducing the book Notary Law and Liability, Understanding State Regulations, Insurance, and Avoiding UPL by Derek Spruel. What you don't know can destroy the notary business you've been building. Get your copy of Notary Law and Liability by Derek Scruell from Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, Books of Million, Bookshop.org, Mobile Notary by DerekSbruell.com, or download from Kindle today.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Welcome to Notary Knowledge. Marilyn and Eddie back with you.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Glad to be back.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

So you're likely an experienced, seasoned professional if you're tuning in. You already know how to stamp a document.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Right. You are here because you are looking to aggressively scale your enterprise, um, decouple your time from low margin work, and secure long-term sustainable revenue.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, we are definitely moving past the foundational steps today.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

In prior discussions, we covered basic notary setups, you know, the essential gear, standard operating procedures, everyday mechanics. But today's focus is strictly high-level strategy.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Aaron Powell We're looking at the actual math, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Exactly. We are examining the true return on investment, the hard mathematical, and strategic value of continuing education. We want to look at whether the capital you invest in advanced certifications actually translates to a sustainable high-margin business model.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Before we get into those numbers and the strategic breakdowns, a quick reminder to check out the video podcast, No Notary, with Eddie Montez Travis, as well as Maryland's 90 seconds of notary.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Two great resources.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

They really are. Both are excellent resources to keep your professional edge sharp as you navigate these more complex topics.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

So the mission today is to analyze two very specific, highly lucrative pathways. Right. We are going to use industry data and financial models to look at the certified reverse mortgage professional credential and then contrast that with the certified notary trust delivery agent credential.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

And they are very different beasts.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Oh, completely. Both offer incredible returns, but they operate in totally different economic sectors and carry um entirely different operational risks.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Aaron Powell Well, let's start with a path that demands serious commitment up front. We're talking about a highly specialized financial sector, the certified reverse mortgage professional, or CRMP designation.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Aaron Powell Right, overseen by the National Reverse Mortgage Lenders Association.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Aaron Powell Yes, the NRMLA. And when you look at the prerequisites, I mean they do not make it easy to get your foot in the door.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Aaron Powell No, they don't. The gatekeeping there is highly intentional.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

You cannot simply pay a fee, breeze through a weekend online course, and print out a certificate. Definitely not. To even submit an application for the CRMP, it requires three years of verified experience originating reverse mortgages. Or you must have personally closed 50 or more reverse loans.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Which wait, 50? That alone establishes a massive barrier to entry.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

It really does.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

It weeds out the casual operators immediately. If you are just doing general notary work on the side, you aren't hitting 50 reverse mortgage closings easily.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Exactly. It creates a moat around the credential. And beyond that practical experience, you need 12 continuing education credits just to be eligible to apply. Wow. Yeah. Plus, you must submit to a comprehensive background check, which runs about $49.95, and you are required to sit for a very specific two-hour CRMP ethics workshop.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

So it's rigorous.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Highly rigorous. The entire process is designed to ensure that only serious, dedicated professionals are handling these specific financial instruments.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

So the barrier to entry is undeniably high. But let's look at the financials because the ROI math is where this gets fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

It's the best part.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

When I first looked at the CRMP, the upfront costs seemed steep for continuing education.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

The cost for the certification exam and the application combined is about $519.95.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

On top of that, there is an annual maintenance fee of $195 just to keep your credential active.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Well, it sounds like a lot of overhead until you compare that upfront cost to the actual revenue model on the back end.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Which is huge.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Unbelievably huge. The average net fee per transaction in the reverse mortgage space is incredibly high compared to standard loan signings. We are looking at net fees ranging from $2,500 to over $5,400 per single transaction.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I mean, let's just pause on that math for a second.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

If your minimum net fee is $2,500, your break-even volume for that initial investment is less than a fifth of a single closed transaction.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Literally 0.197 transactions.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

That's crazy. A fraction of one appointment completely amortizes your initial capital outlay.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

And it easily covers the annual maintenance fee for the year.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Which means the annualized ROI sits at over 2,121%.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

The returns are just massive.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

When I look at this structure, I compare the CRMP to a high yield, low liquidity bond.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Okay. I like that comparison.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Right. It requires significant upfront capital in terms of your time, your acquired experience, and your actual money.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

It is not highly liquid because you cannot just jump in and out of it easily. But the payout per transaction is elite.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

My question, though, is about macroeconomic risk. By specializing so heavily in reverse mortgages, aren't you tying your entire revenue stream incredibly closely to volatile mortgage interest rates?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Well, that is the precise strategic trade-off you have to consider.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

The macro sensitivity is undeniably moderate to high. Your transaction volume is going to be tethered to housing market trends, average home equity levels, and federal interest rates.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

So when rates go up.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

When rates spike and lending cools down, your volume might contract significantly.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

However, we have to synthesize that macro risk against your localized operational liability. In the reverse mortgage space, your unauthorized practice of law liability, your UPL risk is practically nonexistent. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Okay. I have to push back on that a bit. How is UPL risk non-existent when you are dealing with such a complex financial instrument? I mean, reverse mortgages are notoriously complicated for the average consumer to understand. They are going to ask questions at the table. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

They will definitely ask questions. But lending advice in this specific sector, particularly with HECM loans, is strictly standardized.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

HECMB.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Home equity conversion mortgage. It is essentially a way for seniors to convert part of the equity in their homes into cash. Got it. And because that demographic is considered vulnerable, the compliance parameters are built directly into the federal framework by the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

So HUD locks it down.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Exactly. The forms are universally standardized to prevent elder abuse. You are not drafting customized legal clauses or interpreting bespoke contracts. You are executing highly regulated, standardized financial instruments.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Oh, I see the distinction. So the risk isn't at the physical signing table, the risk is in the broader economy.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Precisely.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

You might have fewer appointments when housing rates are bad, but when you do secure an appointment, you aren't going to accidentally give illegal legal advice because the script and the forms are essentially locked in by federal regulation.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

That captures the dynamic perfectly. While your macroeconomic risk is higher, your localized legal liability risk is incredibly low. It is a calculated business model.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Understanding those mechanics, the trade-off between market risk and operational liability is really what separates the hobbyists from the true entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

If you are looking to elevate your practice and deepen your understanding of these mechanics, we highly encourage you to buy the notary knowledge books by Derek Sproul and to visit the Notary Knowledge website.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

And if you find value in these strategic breakdowns, please take a moment to rate the show, subscribe, and share the podcast with other professionals who are serious about treating their commission like a true enterprise.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

So that low UPL risk in reverse mortgages is a massive benefit, but it relies on you being tethered to the housing market.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

If you want to decouple your revenue from interest rates entirely, you have to look at the other end of the demographic spectrum, the great wealth transfer.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

This is huge. We are talking about a massive demographic wave of anywhere from 30 million to 180 million American adults who need an estate plan.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Staggering numbers.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

And for the professional notary, the vital metric is this every single living trust requires six to eight notarizations.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

It's a demographic certainty. The aging population and the transfer of generational wealth are completely insulated from housing interest rates.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

People are going to age regardless of the Fed rate.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Exactly. To capitalize on this specific wave, many professionals are turning to the Certified Notary Trust Delivery Agent or CNTDA program.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

I've heard a lot about this one.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah. This credential was created by Jen Neitzel and Laura Buer, alongside an eight attorney advisory board. It is important to note, based on the source data, that this certification is not currently available in New York due to their specific regional notary regulations.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

But for operators outside of New York, the financials present a really compelling case.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

They really do.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

The upfront cost for the CNTDA ranges from $249 to $499. And here is a massive structural difference from the CRMP we just discussed. There are zero ongoing maintenance fees or recertification costs.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Which is huge. Removing those recurring fees changes the long-term ROI equation significantly.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

The average net fee for a trust delivery appointment ranges from $125 to $250.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Because there are no recurring fees dragging down your net over time, the break-even point is just 1.33 transactions.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

So barely over one single transaction. Which yields an annualized ROI of around 1800%.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Yep. 1800.2%, roughly.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

But I have to push back on the operational reality here. We just established that reverse mortgages have almost zero UPL liability because the federal government standardizes the forms.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Estate planning is the exact opposite. It carries a notoriously high risk for the unauthorized practice of law.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

It really does.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Picture this. A client is sitting at their kitchen table, staring at a highly customized, complex trust document, and they ask you what a specific distribution clause means for their children.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

A very common scenario.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

How does a notary protect themselves in that environment without sounding totally incompetent or dismissive?

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Well, that vulnerability is exactly why the founders brought in an eight attorney advisory board to design the curriculum. Oh, I see. The CNTDA program focuses heavily on training agents in a concept called redirection language.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Redirection language.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Yes. Because estate plans are highly customized to each family, signers will inevitably have legal questions. Redirection language provides the notary with specific, practiced scripts. It allows you to briefly describe the general function of a document while systematically redirecting detailed legal questions back to the drafting attorney.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

I want to role play this for a second so we can hear how it actually sounds in practice.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Sure. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Let's say I am the client and I point to a page and say, look, this clause here says my son gets the house, but what happens if he gets divorced next year? Does his wife get half?

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

If I am an untrained notary, I might panic, try to be helpful, and say, I think trusts usually protect against that, which is a massive UPL violation.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

And a huge liability for both you and the drafting attorney.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Instead, using redirection language, you would acknowledge the document's broader purpose, but build a firm boundary. Oh so you might say something like, This specific document does dictate how your assets are distributed, including the house. However, how this specific clause interacts with your state's divorce laws is a legal interpretation. We need to pause here and contact your attorney to get you the definitive answer.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Oh, that is so much cleaner.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

It works perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

You maintain the professional flow of the appointment. You ensure the client feels supported and heard, but you systematically insulate yourself from UPL liability.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

You aren't just shrugging your shoulders and saying, I don't know, I just stamp things.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

No, you are acting as a professional facilitator. And this focus on the client experience brings us to an even higher elevation in this space: the Certified Estate Signing Professional, or CESP certification.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

This program emphasizes what they call the estate signing ceremony.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

The estate signing ceremony. I really appreciate that framing.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Why call it a ceremony instead of just an appointment or a signing? It sounds almost overly formal.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Well, the terminology is designed to signal the standard of conduct for everyone in the room. Referring to it as a ceremony brings structure, dignity, and intentionality to a highly emotional process.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

You have to remember the context of what is happening. Clients are dealing with end-of-life planning, potential terminal illness, or complex generational legacy issues.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

It's heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Very heavy. A rushed mechanical approach diminishes the gravity of the moment and actually invites more anxiety and confusion from the signers.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

It elevates the entire process. If you treat it like a drive-thru transaction, the client is going to treat you like a drive-thru worker.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Which means they won't trust the documents, they'll ask a million off-the-cuff legal questions, and the whole thing bogs down.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

By treating it as a ceremony, you are psychologically signaling to the client that you are an extension of the attorney's office. You are protecting the drafting attorney's authority by managing the environment professionally, and you are providing a calm, structured space for the family.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

It shifts the perception of your service from a transactional commodity, you know, just a signature and a stamp, to a premium integrated professional support system. I love that. Attorneys are far more likely to outsource their trust deliveries to someone who upholds the dignity and authority of their legal work.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

That is a profound way to look at our role in the wealth transfer process. It is not just about the math, it is about how you position your value in the room.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

So true.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

And speaking of being in the room, let's take a quick pause here to let that financial and strategic math settle.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Good idea.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

All right, it is time for our segment, good question. What would you do?

SPEAKER_02 14:41

This is a rapid-fire look at high-stakes real-world scenarios, experienced notaries face in the field, drawing on factual guidelines and scenarios from our source material.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Let's jump in. Scenario one, you are at the table for an estate signing ceremony. You are about to execute a living trust, and the signer reaches into their pocket, pulls out a black gel pen, and prepares to sign the legacy document. What would you do?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

You must intervene and politely swap it for a ballpoint pen.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Really? Just over a gel pen?

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yes. The Michigan Notary Association provides excellent guidance on the chemistry behind this rule. Gel ink is water-based. Okay. Because of its water-based nature, it is highly prone to fading over time, and if it is exposed to any moisture, it will run or smear. Ballpoint ink, however, is oil-based. It will not wash away or fade easily, making it the preferred and necessary standard for legacy documents that need to remain perfectly legible for decades.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

It is such a small detail, but understanding the chemistry of the ink could save a document's validity 20 years down the line when that trust actually needs to be executed by the surviving family.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

All right, scenario two. A signer presents a brand new military ID or a passport card to verify their identity for a notarization. What would you do?

SPEAKER_02 15:59

You must reject it for the notarization.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Reject it.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Even though it's federal.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yes. This scenario often catches professionals off guard because intuitively these are highly secure federally issued documents. Right. However, Michigan law, which aligns with general best practices across the country, dictates that a valid ID must contain both a photograph and a signature. The newer military IDs, which now use embedded microchips for security and standard passport cards, lack a physical signature on the card itself. And the physical signature is critical because part of the notary's job is comparing the wet signature the client makes on the document to the visual signature on their identification.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Exactly. Because those specific IDs are missing that visual signature, they fail the statutory requirement for proper identification.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

That is a tricky one.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

The technology of the ID advanced with microchips, but the statutory requirement for a visual signature match remained exactly the same. You cannot notarize what you cannot visually verify against a signature.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Wow. Okay, scenario three, the ultimate UPL trap. An AirId legal plan recipient is utilizing their October Estate Planning Awareness Month employer benefits.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

A very common occurrence.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right. They generated the documents themselves through the portal, but at the table, they ask you if their pour over will protects them from a specific tax liability. What would you do?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

This is where your training in redirection language becomes absolutely critical.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

A pour overwill is designed to catch any assets not explicitly put into the trust and pour them in upon death, which naturally triggers tax and probate questions from clients.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Sure. You absolutely do not interpret the clause or offer a tax opinion. Yeah. You stop the signing if necessary, and you instruct the client to call their ARAG estate planning attorney directly.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Because when dealing with DIY or employer benefit legal plans, the notary is often the only professional in the physical room. The temptation to be helpful is huge.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

It is, but you must maintain strict boundaries and redirect all legal interpretations back to the drafting authority.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Which brings us to a final provocative thought to leave you with today. Let's hear it. As this great wealth transfer accelerates, we are seeing a massive rise in DIY legal solutions, like the AAG employer benefits we just mentioned, or online trust generators. If the attorneys are increasingly absent from the physical signing table, will highly specialized credentialed notaries become the unofficial gatekeepers of American wealth transfer?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

It is a profound question to consider. As the legal drafting becomes more automated and decentralized through software, the physical execution of the documents becomes the primary choke point for fraud, coercion, and catastrophic errors.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah, the professional managing that ceremony is the ultimate safeguard.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

It fundamentally changes the value proposition of the credentialed notary. Think about how that positions you in the market as you plan your continuing education and scale your business. Email your questions to Derek at dereksbruel.com. We will try to answer as soon as possible at the end of our shows.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Exec producer Derek Spruell, lead writer Marilyn Lee Trotter, Graphic Situetti Montez Travis, Music Thomas Bynum, produced by Magnificent Works Business Solutions.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Don't just be listeners of the knowledge, be doers of the knowledge. This is notary knowledge. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

You need a shield. The book by Derek Spruel. Notary Fraud Shield could provide you with some advice. Learn real-world tactics, notice red flags, and develop refusal strategies to protect your notary commission. By your copy of Notary Fraud Shield by Derek Sprugal from any online bookstore, Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble Bookstore, Books of Million.com, Bookshop.org, Mobile Notary by DerekScruel.com, or download from Kindle to obtain your essential notary book to help with all your notarization starting today.