An experiment: Jack on the Street

We're taking it to the street! Very hard to hear me, but perhaps it's atmospheric. We talk about menswear, bombing a school in Iran, Bound, being a gay barfly, and Joe Haldeman.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Everybody makes the way up. Okay. Okay. Okay, we're down to it. I can just think I did it. Welcome back. Welcome back. Hi everybody. Hello. Taking you on the Which way should we go? I think maybe not down canal, because it's gonna be a little crowded. So we're gonna walk up Maulberry and see. Oh, here's my neighbor. Hey, how's that going? Um, community. Oop, there's a car coming. There is a car coming. Alright, we're on the sidewalk, we're walking up Mulberry. Podcasting in public. The horrors never cease. I really hope you can hear me. Can you hear me? I let's check. Let's check the audio levels. They look good. They look good. I'm sure people are gonna complain in the comments. Gotten feedback that my audio is all over the place, but you know, we sort of knew this. We sort of knew this coming up as we were doing this. The podcast is sort of like you know it is sort of like talk radio.

unknown 2:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

And this is like talk radio in the field. Did Rushlin Ma ever do that? I don't know. I don't know. Talk radio in the field is potentially a whole new genre that we're developing together here. Alright. We can calm down a little because we're on what? Is this Grand? I never even know. It's not, right? It's Hester. Let's find out. I think it's Hester. It's not really important. Don't need you all to find me. Do you know where I live? Let's see. Oh, there's the sign. It is Hester. I knew it was Hester. Alright, we're gonna walk down Hester Street. Everybody. If you can't hear me, turn it up. Get loud. Let's get loud. You know what song I'm into? KG Bitch by Adela. Did you watch that show? Did you watch that show? Popstar Academy? Cat's eye? Popstar Academy? I thought it was really good. I thought it was really good. It's really fun seeing talented people do their thing. And the drama, the machinations. I love machinations. I like seeing how pop music is made. How the sausage is made. I think it's really fascinating. I guess that shouldn't be surprising. Sort of up my avenue. Ooh, ooh! Honk konk. Don't get run over. It wasn't me, guys. Don't worry. I'm very cautious as a pedestrian. Very cautious as a pedestrian because I don't know why, but I have an unsettling feeling that something bad is gonna happen to me in a street one day. Where are we going? Where are we going, you ask? Um we're just walking. I think we're gonna walk to Dimes Square. We're gonna walk to that park and see what's going on over there. Scene report. This is a scene report, this is a talk radio scene report. Maybe we'll run into somebody and they can get in on this. I guess we saw my neighbor. Who I won't name to preserve his privacy. But who knows? Who knows what we'll see? Who will see? Who will see? What shall we put on this scene? Uh New York, how's it going? Thriving, I think. Doing well. The weather's fantastic. Today's Tuesday after work. Sunny, not a cloud in the s- well, there are clouds in the sky, but you get what I'm saying. It's it's it's pretty sunny. It's pretty sunny, it's not too hot. Alright, let's cross a bowery and not get run over. This is a prime candidate street to get run over on. I think we're good. It's beautiful out what? The Knicks are winning one, the Knicks one, Knicks and five. Yeah, I guess I'm not that excited about it. My whole thing with the Knicks is I grew up in a Knicks household. I grew up in a Knicks household. I was born in New York City. I grew up in the tri-state area. So I grew up in a Knicks household. And my brother and dad were like Sirius fans, Sirius followed it. And you know, my sister sort of popped in as a fair weather fan and was always kind of strongly rebuffed, I think, by my brother as like, you know, stop faking it, don't pretend, blah blah blah. Perhaps justifiably so. Sorry, sorry to sister who sometimes listens to this, you know, airing out the family drama. But I think it's conditioned in me to not be a fair weather fan, not be a jump-on, you know? So I didn't feel like I could jump on the Knicks bandwagon because I'm not a big sports person in general, so I would have just been a fair weather. You know, I I I couldn't do it. Are there childhood photos of me with who, Hakim Elijah on? Who else was on there? The guy with the mustache. Who's the guy with the mustache? I can picture him. I don't know his name. I don't know his name. These bikers are going fast and furious. I don't know his name. Anyway, but uh somebody won a contest, something when I was growing up. So we got to meet the Knicks and got photos with them. And I still had a jersey, a childhood Knicks jersey that I got rid of because it was so small and it smelled like crayons. So it wasn't really comfortable to wear, but maybe I should have kept it. So I could have worn it around town. Sort of a skin type child's jersey that smells like chemicals. Nothing says sports, pride like that. What else? Oh, New York, the, you know, the um Mamdani, everyone loves Mamdani. But uh it's a good attitude, it's good air. There's the what the World Cup. Viva Mexico. Obviously, we're cheering for Mexico number one. Uh Bosnia, let's throw Bosnia in there. I think we gotta root for Bosnia. Who else? I don't really know who else is playing. Um, so best of luck, well wishes. Well wishes to them. Oh, Iran. I feel like we should cheer for the Iranian team, right? Yeah. And I don't know, it's hard to get excited, for me, poisonly, as a person with a conscience about all this stuff when the US is doing everything. I feel like we all moved on so quickly, and the fact that the United States bombed a school in Iran. Killed like a hundred kids. Just a few months ago. Just a few months ago. We bombed a school. Killed a hundred kids for no reason. For Israel. We did it for Israel. We did it for Israel. Bombed a school to a hundred kids. So, yeah, sue me. I'm not that excited about New York or the United States or anything, rah-rah. We haven't earned it. We haven't earned it in my mind. So I'm not that excited about that stuff. Call me a wet blanket. Fine. Fine, I don't care. Do your worst. Do your worst. What am I seeing on the street? I don't know. Uh there's not much. What should I report on? Kids, there's kids over there. There's a housing project. There's things going on. Oh, doors. I wonder how much you can hear. I have no idea. I have no idea. I have no idea. What is this? Putter, patter? We're not really puttering. This is stroll. Stroll chat? Stroll chat? Is that a good name? Stroll chat. I'm kinda walking fast. I think because I'm self-conscious about the fact that I'm podcasting in public. Maybe walk a little too fast. Maybe it's putting me on edge. Maybe this is the first of many that we'll do in public. I don't think anybody cares. I think everyone just thinks I'm on my phone. But I don't really go on the phone in public either. Oh dear. Just got run over by a skateboarder. Not really. But I thought I was. I thought it was. It's a beautiful day. It really is a beautiful day. No. No. I hope you're doing well. I hope you're doing well. I hope you're not bombing schools with kids. That would be bad. Brute. This store, this is a brute menswear store. It's just expensive thrift store fines is all that is. When did menswear just become expensive thrift store fines? Let's walk down, let's walk down this block. And see. Nonfiction scents. I do love scents. I should go in there sometime. I think we should do it now. Oh society of call. Okay. Looks nice. Scars of core. Yeah, I don't know. Menswear is just good for finds. Like a rugby shirt, a work jacket, a t-shirt, a button-down. It all costs like $700. Why? Why man? Why dude? I get nice fabrics. Fit, whatever. It's so tough, tough. Menswear enthusiasm is a real tough vibration. One that I don't have. And it always feels like nostalgic for like manual labor. The whole thing about like craft and you know heritage fabrics. And they always love a work jacket. Menswear loves work jackets. It's so nostalgic for some sort of blue collar masculinity. Not my thing. Not my thing at all. I haven't been to this wine bar in years. I don't think I need to go. Fugazi? Is it Fugazi? Fugazi? I've never been there either, still. Um okay. Back to canal. Back to canal. I don't want to quite find this bar sending. I think I'd be listening to this right now. Actually. Do not go there. Not a place for me. Let's see. Let's see. We're coming up on the corner. Let's see. See if he's there. Give a little wave. Why are there so many seats at Ladiv? Probably reserved. Probably reserved. Don't stop in. Business to attend to, things to do, podcasts to make. Someone is very close behind me is making me a little self-conscious. Uh I gotta entertain you guys. I gotta entertain you guys. What? Oh, my friend is there? Did not see me. Um what did I do this weekend? Oh, I have a movie recommendation for everybody. I have a movie recommendation for everybody. It is bound. Bounds from the Wachowski's. The Wachowski. It's their first movie. They made it before the Matrix movies. And uh it's amazing. My friend recommended it to me last week. Oh, okay, so hold on. I gotta back up. I gotta back up and recommend something first. So I met my friend last Friday. We went to a gay bar. That's right. We went to a gay bar and sat at the bar. We went to boiler room in the East Village. Not the nightmare street club experience. We sat and it was lovely. It was lovely and I recommend it. There's almost nobody there when we went in. It's been a long time since I've just gone to a gay bar. I don't know if I've ever actually gone to a gay bar and just like sat at the bar and like bar fly. But it was it was perfect and uh we should do it more. Support clear spaces, support pride, of course. We have pride. And it was really nice. You know, I don't really drink, but but it was great. Anyway, so so thanks for that diversion. Um casino. Is casino good? That also looks girly pop forward, and it's also empty. Oh no, am I too biased against girly pop forward spaces? Maybe I am. Maybe I am. Um I don't care. So Bound. Bound is not a girly pop forward movie, however, it features Jennifer Tilley and Gina Gershon as lesbian lovers ripping off the mob. It's as good as it sounds. There's a lot of camera techniques that you can see get more developed in the Matrix. There's a lot of like leather coats, very matrix, a lot of small sunglasses, it's a lot of like elevator, because it all basically takes place in an apartment building. It's so good, it's so good. It's obviously Hitchcock referencing. Maybe not referencing, but influenced by his reading online, also apparently it's really compared to the Cohen Brothers, but I guess I haven't seen that many Clone Brothers movies, but it seemed preferable to the Colin Brothers movies because it wasn't so like cutesy. It didn't get a great reception at the time, I guess. Probably because it couldn't handle the whole lesbian love affair. Uh it's great though. It's great, it's stylish. It's a stylish thriller. And stylish neon noir thriller. But it is, it is actually stylish. I'm not just being glib. And it's fun, it's sexy. Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershawn are oozing sex. They fuck. Uh and I have never seen this little pocket of the park back here on the side of the library. Oh, I'm in the park. I'm in the park now. Made it. I made it. There's a little native plant garden. We should walk around that because you know I'm all about native plants. I think this is a big oak leaf hydrangea. I think they have a lot of oak leaf hydrangea. It's funny. It's funny because New York, I guess, is in the coastal plain range of the southeast United States. So you can grow oak leaf hydrangea really well. Because it's a southern plant. I do not think it grows very well upstate because it's right on the edge. I tried it. I'm trying it this year. I got a little oak leaf hydrangea. I got a little oak leaf hydrangea. No, bound, you gotta watch Bound. You absolutely have to. You can rent it on Amazon or some other place. I think it's free on Pluto, but I got scared, so I didn't do that. Wow, look at this native plant garden. Wow, it is so lush. Even though it's so shady, it's so lush. What's this little flower? Oh, this is an elderberry plant. Beautiful. Beautiful. Going back upstate. Tomorrow? No, Thursday. Can't wait to see. I have a little opified range of business going on up there. Or sorry, not openja. I do, but um elderberry. Elderberry business. Or elder flowerberry. I don't know what it is. What's this? This one looks nice. I'll take a little picture and identify it on my app. Later. We're still recording it at a pause on you. No, no, no, I didn't. I wish people could call in to this. I should just ask people on the street. It should be like Billy on the street. Billy on the street. Kind of a nightmare situation all around. Love and light, of course. Love and light, of course. You know the thing. The thing. The thing about gardening is time. The thing about gardening is time, and I'm not just bringing this up randomly. Because it's been on my mind a lot. In different ways. I'm gonna circle back to a book that I just read, Sci-Fi, that I enjoyed. Um The thing about gardening is time, you have to think in terms of well, years, but also kind of generations. There's some plants that you plant them, and it takes decades for them to really reach their full majesty, especially trees, you know? So there's something about gardening and landscaping that makes you think on those timescales, and you start thinking, at least I start thinking, maybe you don't, but I do. I start thinking about, well, what's gonna happen to this after I'm dead? Who's gonna live here next? Are they gonna appreciate it or are they just gonna tear this all out? So kind of what's the point? What's my legacy? You know, it gets a little existential. And I think that's good. I think you should be thinking at those timescales, especially when we think about the land and living things. We shouldn't just be thinking about, oh, what do I want to plant for next year? What do I want to plant for the spring? It should be what seeds, what metaphorical seeds are you planting for decades from now? Hmm? Hmm? Think about that. Think about that. It's really, it's kind of heavy. Because it is a heavy thing to reflect on, because maybe we're we feel like we're not doing a lot. Maybe I feel like I'm not doing a lot. Maybe I need to be planting more seeds for the future. More engaged with the future so I don't just disappear like I never was. You know? Yeah, no. Existential moment. Existential moment, but it ties to the book that I was mentioning earlier. This sci-fi book called The Forever War. The Forever War. So there's this author, Joe Halderman, I think is his name. Joe Halderman. He wrote, I guess it would be pulp fiction, genre fiction, from the 70s, 70s, and 80s. Forever War was I think his first book, or was like his big breakthrough. He was a Vietnam War veteran. And he wrote a sci fi book, it's a military sci fi book. That is not quite an analogy for the Vietnam War, but there is a Forever war. So obviously that concept coming from the Vietnam War. And a lot about the book is like, what is this war even for? Why are they fighting this anymore? Humans in the future against an alien race. That the alien race is also kind of like, what are we doing this for? It's a really good book. It's maybe my favorite book. It follows in the vein of what's the original military sci-fi book? I think I mentioned it on here before. It was made into the movie Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers? Battleship Troopers? Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers. Really good. Really good. Like the first military sci-fi book. So it falls in that vein. And adapted to the Vietnam War. It's much more like war skeptical. Starship Troopers is still like rah-rah military. And the Forever War is really skeptical. Anyway, so the thing about time there, man, is it uses time dilation. Which, if you're not familiar. What's going on down there? Oh, this restaurant. I want to go there. It uses time dilation. So it if you're traveling near the speed of light, or some significant fraction of the speed of light, based on the laws of relativity, time slows way down for you relative to other people. So that speed of light stays the same. Speed of light stays the same. So you start passing less time if you're on a spaceship going like 50% of the speed of light. So the book takes advantage of that by having these military people go on these missions to other stars. They have to get there by traveling some percentage of the speed of light, and so they barely age, so by the time they get there, it's been like a century has passed. So they have to oh fuck. So they have to um fight all these battles that maybe aren't even relevant strategically anymore. You know, they show up somewhere a hundred years late, maybe, and they're like, oh, the battle's already happened, maybe. Or the battle's gonna happen in 50 years or something, so the time is all thrown off. So they get really disjointed from society. Everybody kind of gets disjointed from society, and all these different eras have to interact. So that he's holdover basically from like 500 years ago at some point, and he keeps interacting with different parts of society over time. And the great part is society gets gayer over time, and he's straight. So eventually he becomes like uh it becomes like kind of taboo to be straight and kind of like shocking. And he's got a female lover who travels with him, and this, you know, they meet up at various points. So it's fun. It's just fun. It's fun, it's the 70s, you know, they were thinking about queer stuff, whatever, and the straight guy writing about society getting gay. Who doesn't want to live in that world, you know? Let's get gayer and gayer and gayer. It's really good. And then it becomes kind of homo fascist. Which is interesting. Which is just interesting. It's just a nice, a nice way to think about it. You don't see it. You don't see that sort of creative thinking so much, especially about like the shape of your societies, what they're gonna look like. And then it made me think of the time when I'm gardening and these different timescales. There's something there's something about it that I don't think feels that familiar in this day and age. We're so immediate, you know, the age of immediacy. That's what that's what what was her name? Anna. I'm sorry, I forget. I forgot even the title of the book. Anyway, it's about immediacy. Came out a couple years ago. Came out a couple years ago. We're in the age of immediacy, we don't have everything to happen now. So it's kind of refreshing, I think. Having these things that engage your mind on timescales that are huge, that are superhuman, supra-human. I don't know which one. You tell me. I'm into that. I'm into that as I walk away from Dimes Square now. To the lower side. The 70s were great for literature. 70s literature is really cool to me. Because they were all like post-60s. So they were a little bit disillusioned with kind of utopian thinking, but still interested in it. But not yet in the 80s where they everybody had given up and whatever, everything went to shit, for lack of a better word. And I just everything that I've read or that I've been reading from the 70s has really resonated. Because it's idealistic, but a little bit jaded. So they're all like not super excited about communism. They don't like capitalism. Not really sure which way forward to go. Nothing really seems to be working out great. That resonates. That resonates. It's all like funky, crunchy, who else in the 70s? Vine Deloria Jr., I think of his 70s, though maybe he was writing in the 80s. Who else? There's that sociologist, Earthwalk. Hmm. I don't remember his name. Good books. These are good books. Maybe I should watch some 70s movies, but I don't want like new Hollywood crap. That's just not my jam. I'm not interested in that, unfortunately. Sorry. I'm sure Robert De Niro is wonderful, but it's not my thing. It's not my thing. It's not my thing. It's not my thing. I don't know. What I'm supposed to have to say, I didn't because I'm not seeing things, and I still feel a little self-conscious doing this. Walking around. It smells beautiful. There's flowers blooming. It's a beautiful sunny day. There's birds chirping. It's really nice over here. It's just far as heck from the subway. The Apple Bank building is so interesting to me. Do you know what I'm talking about? The one on the lower east side? Kind of modernist building with these weird offices above it. Like what is in those offices? Lots of things I can see. Oh, because it's the it's like the credit union for the development, I think. Maybe? Abron's Art Center? Maybe once. Again, it's far. Seems nice. Seems nice. Keep it up. Keep it up, little guy. I don't know what else is over here. I've been to an orgy over here. I've been to a couple orgies over here. Sex parties. Not my thing, particularly, but not opposed. I know I like to explore. I'll try anything once. They're nice. Sure. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. Sure, sure, sure. Keep it up. Keep it up, little guys. Do your thing. Get free key. It's so quiet over here. I don't know. I don't know. I think that's all I have. I was kind of thinking there I there would be more going on with taking you all on the street. I thought this would be more of like a to-do. There wasn't much of a to-do. The frisson of street life is fine. It's good. But maybe not for podcasting. Maybe that's why people don't do this. Also, the audio quality, I'm sure, is horrible. You probably haven't heard anything I've said. So I guess I'll just like turn around. Oh yeah, I can go down this street. Streets are so weird down here. Lost. I'm a little lost, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. All good. All good. I think it's everything I have. Bound. Bound was really good. I don't know if there's anything I don't like. Maybe fine. I know if there's something I don't like. I was listening to a New York Review of Books podcast. And first of all, I like I think the podcast is good. And I only listen to like 20 minutes of an episode, so that's really just sort of a knee-jerk reaction. And it's the one I think the host is Jared Ernest, who I believe is an arts and culture writer. And I'm not saying I don't like this person. No shade. I think what I just had the knee-jerk reaction to is like the breathy effective register of like thoughtfulness. People talking. You know, I think my practice really began responding to the milieu of. I don't know, I can't even do it. I can't even do it. It's not natural to me. I'm not, I guess, a serious or thoughtful person when I talk much more in the glib slot mode. But even when I'm interested in what people are talking about. Like the episode I was listening to, they're talking about like arts criticism and the state of arts criticism and arts writing, and obviously that's something I am interested in. It's hard for me to really connect with the kind of Terry Gross, fresh air. Here we are, yeah. So you won a MacArthur in 1996. And you know, your work really engages with, I think, the fractionality of individuality. It's hard. I don't know. I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm doing I'm I don't even want to do I don't even want to lampoon it because I I don't mean to be mean-spirited about it, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think everyone should do what they want to do, and if that's how people talk, go off sis. Sister, go off sister. Obviously I talk in a way that I'm sure could lampoon, and I'm sure some people I'm sure some people hate it. I'm sure it drives people wild, you know? I'm sure it's the worst. I'm sure this is so freaking annoying. Some people, yeah. So, uh, you know, I hold space. I hold space and love and light, you know, I have filled with love and light for everybody. But I don't think I like that register. That affective register, the affective register of thoughtfulness, of seriousness. You know, New Yorker event tease. New Yorker view evoke podcast vibes. NPR realness. It's difficult for me to engage with. And I don't know what the alternative is exactly. I don't know. Maybe there's something to that. Maybe there's something to the fact that it has to, this kind of content has to exist in an affective register of like muted. muted sensuality. You know? It strikes me as interesting that you work so much with the color yellow. It's just a recurring theme that I've noticed in your work. As I was going through preparation for this interview, I just I was struck by yellow. There's just an insistence, the insistence on yellow. No, I'm really trying not to lampoon anybody. It's just a it's just a mode. It's just a mode. And who knows, I might mix up my mode at some point. Try to get some click, click, click attention time. And I might do a thoughtful register. Maybe I should. Maybe it's what's holding me back. It's my natural glibness, my natural inability to take things too seriously. Maybe I would get a MacArthur. Maybe that's how I get my MacArthur. If I just talk a little more breathy. I'm serious. Thoughtful and take myself seriously and all that. And maybe other people will give me. What did they get? Like a million dollars or something? They get an outrageous amount of money, those MacArthur fellows. Where's my MacArthur? Can you imagine? I don't like this podcast. Ooh, this looks good. Crisp chicken. I have food at home. I can't be eating out. I have to eat all this food before I leave. Eat it or freeze it. We're getting back into the Dime Square area. We are. Don't want to get run over. Yeah. I think that's about what we've got going on. I think that's about it. See a lot of campaign posters. Boo Dan Goldman. Obviously down with him. I am not a registered Democrat because I'm registered at Working Families Party. But I don't know if there's a benefit to being registered at Working Families Party. I just kind of assumed there was. You know, give them their numbers. But I don't know, because you know I can't vote in the in the Democratic primary now. Seems fine. Seems fine by me. Don't know that I need to be involved in all that. We'll probably lose by a lot. Which is great. So they'll be fine. He'll be fine, you'll be fine. Hopefully everybody here will be fine. Blessings. Love and light. You're doing great. Enjoy summer. Enjoy Juneteenth, I think. Is this Friday?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

You know.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Breathe deep. Breathe deep. Plant your feet on the ground. Don't blow up a school. I guess that's something I don't like is is the bombing of that school. That sucks. That sucks. You don't. Unless you unless you want to. In which case I hope you suck as many dicks as you want this weekend. This week. Because I adore you and I love all my little dick sucking listeners. Who probably can't hear anything that I'm saying, but that's because I don't want the people around me to hear what I'm saying, particularly. So let me know. Did this work? Did it not? Otherwise, I'll see you when I see ya.