The Learning Curve
The Learning Curve is a podcast from The University of Queensland’s School of Education that bridges the gap between what you learn about teaching and what actually happens in the classroom.
The Learning Curve
The power of routines in the classroom
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Tania Noble is an experienced senior teacher, with more than 30 years experience in the classroom. In this episode, Tania helps answer today's key question, "How do routines support learning, not just behaviour?".
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After listening to this episode, start here:
Building routines to manage cognitive load
https://www.edutopia.org/video/building-routines-to-manage-cognitive-load
Video discussing the way structures and routines can be used to facilitate effective classroom.
Using proactive strategies and routines to create order in the classroom
Data-driven explanations of the strategies that can be used to create order in the classroom and two example models for routine development.
Try this tomorrow
Entrance Routines
https://www.edresearch.edu.au/guides-resources/practice-guides/entrance-routine
Downloadable practice guide to help develop and refine their classroom entrance routines.
Classroom routines to eliminate chaos and confusion
https://catlintucker.com/2022/09/classroom-routines/
Teacher blog post with explanations and examples of a range of routines to use within and throughout a lesson.
If you want to go deeper
Classroom management practices commonly used by secondary school teachers: results from a Queensland survey
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13384-020-00402-y
Hepburn, L., Beamish, W., & Alston-Knox, C. L. (2021). Classroom management practices commonly used by secondary school teachers: results from a Queensland survey. Australian Educational Researcher, 48(3), 485–505. https://doi.org/10.1007/s13384-020-00402-y
Australia-based empirical study showing that preventative, structured practices are widely used and associated with improvement in student engagement and teacher wellbeing.
Book: Running the Room: The Teacher’s Guide to Behaviour by Tom Bennett
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55289198-running-the-room
Book (also available on Kindle and Audible) for new teachers with practical advice about managing behaviour in the classroom with a focus on consistency and explicit instruction models.
You're listening to the Learning Curve, turning education theory into classroom practice. I'm Anna Sibthorpe. If you know you need to make things predictable for your class to help them engage, but you haven't seen many examples, this is the episode for you. Today we're asking how do routines actually support learning, not just behavior. We unpack what workable routines look like in high behavior needs classrooms, what happens when they break down, and how teachers refine them over time. I'm joined by experienced senior teacher Tanya Noble.
SPEAKER_09When I imagine teaching in a high behaviour needs classroom, I tend to overthink that I'm going to be yelling too much and I'm not actually getting to the students.
SPEAKER_00When I imagine teaching in a high behaviour needs classroom, I feel like I'm not able to take care of all students.
SPEAKER_07I feel the pressure of understanding how the students will need to learn and making sure that they are supported whilst also I'm supported in teaching them.
SPEAKER_01I feel the need to control everything to the best of my ability without listening to the students.
SPEAKER_02When I imagine teaching in a high behaviour needs classroom, I feel like I need to manage my time wisely so I can distribute it to everyone and not only the high behaviour needs students.
SPEAKER_05Hi, my name is Tanya Noble. I've been a secondary high school teacher for 30 plus years now. Started my teaching career back in Victoria, where I'm from originally. I've worked in a variety of different school contexts, independent schools, P to 12, state high schools, a brief period in an international school also. So yeah, a lot of different contexts and places.
SPEAKER_04I know that you work a lot with some sort of higher support needs students in your school. What made you want to work with those kinds of kids?
SPEAKER_05Okay, so I don't know if I really chose that per se. A lot of these things are thrust upon us by our powers at being at school, but my experience plus diversity in range of different contexts has allowed me to kind of fall into that role a little bit and being a bit of an older teacher as well. So working with lots of students in my particular area, EALD, so English second language students, also a lot of international students who are coming in, they sort of go through a process of that transition at Mill Pera to get like basic skills and they get transitioned to our skills, but they're still pretty low with their English. And also a lot of kids that need learning support so are either supported through special education programs at the school or have social and emotional needs and things like that. So certainly very diverse, and we're seeing more and more of that in our classrooms today.
SPEAKER_04When you first started working with those types of students, were there expectations you had? Did anything surprise you about it?
SPEAKER_05Some of the expectations I had was that I would actually get more support to do that because you know, your all your training and your teaching experience has very little about those things. And a lot of those diverse needs and things have changed and become more apparent in the last maybe five to ten years. So initially, when I first started teaching, I didn't come across as many kids with like formal diagnoses or learning issues or things like that. And now they seem to be more and more at the forefront. So I guess I expected to maybe be a little bit upskilled, if you like. You hope that you would get that through your professional learning and development at schools, somewhat, yes, but it's really on your own bat to kind of go and investigate. So I did do a lot of reading, a lot of investigation into how I might be able to help or work with different students in different contexts, and especially in that really mixed classroom, because you're not just catering for ELD or international or students with specific diagnoses or learning conditions. Then you've also just got your regular kids. So it's trying to meet the needs of all those kids in different ways. So having some clear structures and routines that everyone can kind of follow and then adapt to other individuals is kind of really important to make the classroom work.
SPEAKER_04So you went and did your own investigation into that. Is that how you would recommend early careers teachers do that as well?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, certainly. Most schools, though, uh will have some support programs in place. So if they have like a special ed department, most school, pretty much every school has that. So that would be a first point of call. Any other sort of like deans or students or like coordinator roles, guidance officers also, especially for kids with like the social emotional or maybe trauma background sort of stuff, they will provide basic information about kids and strategies of how to work with them. Getting the first prompts from what's happening in your school and through special ed programs, and then maybe going and doing some more reading. So for a long time, like I didn't know a lot about something like dysgraphia. I'd heard of dyslexia, but I didn't know dysgraphia and what that kind of meant. So I start the year with my classes with let me know more about you. And I always have questions about how do you learn best, what things can your teacher do to help you, whether that's movement breaks, whether that's chunking down information, repeating things, whatever, and then I try to encompass that as best as I can in the day-to-day classroom.
SPEAKER_04So once you've done your research, you've talked to the kids, you've talked to the support teachers and other people at the school, how do you start embedding routines in the class to help kids like that?
SPEAKER_05Okay, so I've always been a pretty structured and organized teacher. So right back even from my beginning career, like, you know, lesson planning, having a structure. And now that's just kind of embedded even more so in and more innately. So kind of having these things called anchor routines, I guess. So each school will have expectations about how students like come into a classroom, sit down. So our school calls it the common agreements, students should be lined up at the door. So we have that expectation when they're in the classroom, they're meant to get organized, sit down, be ready for instruction. So reinforcing what the school has in place about expectations for students to guide them. So it's not just about rules that tell them this is what you must do, which they all go, oh, rules. It's more about breeding those expectations and routines that will teach them how to do or what to do and just what's expected. I have my students, they line up, they enter the classroom, they come to their desk space. I have flexible seating in most of my classrooms. I do allow that initially, and then if it's too out of control, then you go to a seating plan. But I start with the presumption that, I mean, I say the kids, you know, with the right to choose where you sit is the responsibility that you will be doing the right thing, which means you are listening when you need to listen, you are completing tasks when you're given tasks, etc. So I set that clear expectation. The other thing is getting them into the class is having a little routine to start the lesson because it's kind of busy and hectic. You've got 28 odd kids, you know, all rambling in, they've come in from a break or before school, they're all pretty noisy and chatty. So I'll usually have something on the board that it's like um a do-now uh task to get them settled. So it's like come in, get your bags down. So they bring the bags into our classrooms. Uh, it's either right under the desk or at the back, take out your books, take out your pens, take out your device, and let's get started. I also have in my room for each of my year levels are they have folders where they can keep resources and worksheets and books and things.
SPEAKER_04So I just interrupt you really quickly, only because that was a really good tip. So, with a do now activity, what kinds of do now activities?
SPEAKER_05Okay, so I teach English predominantly, um, also humanities, but now just English. So it will be something on the board which might be at the start of the week for some of the junior levels. So sevens and eights, it might be their vocab words for the week. So it might be getting those down, maybe a little task of finding some synonyms or antonyms, definitions. So it'll be up on the board usually through a PowerPoint slide or something, and it's kind of this is our like beginning task to settle. So something like that. It might also be a little summary. So write a summary, what do you remember from the last lessons? Or a recap. Um write five things or five dot points that you remember, or any questions that you have about last lesson before we continue. So little things like that. You could even make it a fun thing, like it could be uh something like a boggle grid on the board. So you've got five minutes, and it's usually I set a time five minutes. Sometimes I'll have that five minutes on the board as well. So counting down. So this is where technology is really helping us now as teachers. Although in the past you could have like an egg timer or something like that back in the old days with the chalkboard. Technology certainly helps with those sorts of things, and it just helps that settling down period. And the other expectation during that time is it's quiet time. It's settling down, it's getting into a routine, it's activating our brains and getting ready for the main part of the lesson. You keep reinforcing that with them. Keep reinforcing that. And then after a week or two, they kind of get to the routine. So we're in week four now of the term. Now students are, especially the juniors that have sevens and eights, they're getting that now. So they can see me coming up the stairs. Oh, let's line up and you know, come in, they put the bags, they go and get their folders and things like that. There's still the odd student that needs a little prompt. Hey, what is everybody else doing right now? What are my expectations? Come in, get your place, get your folder, start the activity on the board, set, you know, and settle and get ready for learning. So there's still the odd one that needs a little prompt that likes to push the boundaries. But eventually, you know, they kind of fall into that routine. Then it's about structuring the lesson. Like you must have structure. You must have a lesson plan. I mean, once upon a time, I would have written copious, like very detailed lesson plans. As you build experience and confidence with your teaching material and content, you don't need to write it as fully as that. But I always have a structure to my lesson. So the beginning anchor sort of routine to start. Then once that's done, we might have a little discussion. Okay, if it was about questions or recapping, who can recap some of the things we did last lesson? Where did we get to? Are there any questions? I maybe didn't do like a thumbs up, thumbs down, or a sort of middling sort of hand movement, like who got what we did last lesson, how many, and how many I've got no idea, or I'm kind of half-half, just to gauge what I might need to recap in more detail. So then I'll do a little brief summary. This is what we did last lesson, this is where we got up to, this is where we're moving next. So it's always signposting those things. Those things I think are really important for our sensory students. So students are with either cognitive learning difficulties or sensory issues, ADHD, ASD kids, they like the anticipation it creates safety and awareness for them that they know what to expect. They know that we start with this little activity. Miss is going to recap what was happened. She's going to ask if we have questions, and then we're going to do our introductory tasks for the lesson, and we're going to do some modelling. So I always start with we do tasks, so working together, okay, and then sharing ideas and then gradually moving to that now it's you do independent type sort of thing. At the end of the lesson, I have exit ticket sort of strategies, another recap, you know, about the lesson.
SPEAKER_04And you said you use exit tickets as your sort of ending routine, like you can use a discussion. Do you use any other kinds of exit tickets?
SPEAKER_05Sometimes it might be like a post-it note sort of thing. So uh a connect extend challenge sort of thing. So connect extend challenge is a graphic organizer or thinking tool. So connect is you ask students to think about well, was there something that you connected with this content today? Is there something that you already knew that you went, oh yeah, that's my light bulb went on, and I definitely know and understand that. Extend is then thinking, what else did I learn about this? So I already knew this thing, but today I actually learned something new that I can add to that. And then challenge is either something that they found difficult to understand or something that they thought maybe challenged them to think in a different way. For example, sort of maybe like a different perspective. Seniors tend to do more of those, like you know, especially for like persuasive topics and things like that. And I'll have just like a chart with those columns and I'll give everyone a sticky note and ask them to come and pop something in connect, extend, challenge. Sticking things, moving, yeah, writing things, and then having that as a visual. There's also then a prompt maybe for your next lesson to be your anchor activity to start with. So you might even start with, okay, I might grab some of those suggestions or ideas that kids had and say, okay, so some of the things that people connect, well, most people connected with this concept. Some people were able to extend their thinking by connecting these things. But I noticed that, you know, quite a few people found this concept challenging or wanted to know more about it. So maybe we'll start with talking a little bit more about that issue again or whatever. So that can lead into becoming that your beginning task for the next lesson. But I guess the biggest thing to know with teaching is that you can't ever be underprepared. One strategy and routine may work better or worse, or not so good with other groups. So you've got to pick your audience and your crowds and things like that. But I find most students and most year levels, once the expectations are clear, once the routines and boundaries are clear and there's no surprises, behavior improves. Behavior is probably one of our biggest, like sticking points at the moment. A lot of kids come from chaos. You know, we don't know what's going on in kids' homes at lives. For some kids, school is the only safe place. You are the only constant adult. At first, they find it confronting and uncomfortable that you might have boundaries or expectations. But the more that they're in place and they see that they're there for a reason and they help support their learning and their well-being and all of those sorts of things, they tend to kind of come around.
SPEAKER_04I found in the past those sort of higher behaviour needs kids, they really crave that predictability. 100%. Yeah. One question I get a lot from pre-service teachers is how long things are supposed to take. So you've just finished the first few weeks and you said they're starting to get the routines now. Is that typically how long you wait? Three or four weeks?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think so, especially for juniors. So sevens and eights. Oh, well, grade sevens especially because they're the biggest transition. So coming from grade six, their primary school, they um are used to seeing mostly one teacher regularly all of the time, apart from their, you know, arts or music or sports. And they are typically quite routined, especially primary classrooms, and because they have that same teacher all the time, that expectation is kind of there. Come to high school. Now we've got multiple teachers, we've got multiple expectations, even though there might be those grounding and guiding principles, like at our school, what they call the common agreements, that they ask teachers to have everyone line up, do this in the learning process and whatever. Another ending thing I have at the end of the day, the classroom, I don't like chaos, so I don't like it to be noisy and chaotic. I like kids to come in and do that settling thing in the beginning to settle, so that five minutes of that grounding task. And then at the end, my routine for pack up is we ended the lesson now. So now what we do is we put away our material, so all our things in our folders and put them back in our year-level tub. We put our bag on a desk, we pack our things in it, then we push our chair in and we stand quietly behind our desk.
SPEAKER_03I feel most confident managing a class when I know all the students individually and we have a really good rapport and relationship.
SPEAKER_01I feel most confident managing a class when I understand everything that I need to teach on that lesson. And whenever the kids have a question that needs to be answered, I know exactly what to tell them.
SPEAKER_09I feel most confident managing a class when I really understand the content that I'm teaching and how my students are likely to respond to said content.
SPEAKER_08I feel most confident managing a class when I'm prepared and knowledgeable in what I'm teaching and supported by others around me.
SPEAKER_06I feel most confident managing a class when there are heavily established routines and the students know these routines and respect them because it makes it much easier for me to follow along with those routines and know that students are understanding what they need to do.
SPEAKER_04One thing that I hear from pre-service teachers that they're worried about is the pushback from students who don't want to do a routine, like they don't want to do it. How do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_05Again, it's just restating this is the expectation, okay? My expectation is that when your bottom's on a seat in my classroom, that you're here to learn and you're doing. If you don't understand the task, I can clarify it for you. If you want a simpler version, if you don't want to write sentences, can you write some dot points? So sometimes a little bit of negotiation to see that they've got a little bit of choice, but not giving it away. If they just absolutely refuse, I mean, there are moments where I'm like, okay, well, I've got to get onto the class and I don't want to get in a power struggle with you. So if you absolutely refuse to do the task that I've asked you to do, I can't force you to do it. But my expectation is then if you want to sit there and not do it, you sit there quietly and you let everyone else do it. And then we'll maybe have a chat about that a bit later. I don't want to take up all the energy in the room or the moment or take away from the other kids learning. So things aren't always going to work. You just got to persevere and try new things, and eventually you'll find something that works for most of the kids. It's rare to find something that's going to work 100% of the time for every single kid.
SPEAKER_04I think to what sometimes pre-service teachers need to know is the end game. Like what are we trying to get to? So why is it so beneficial, especially towards the second half of the year where kids have those routines in the place?
SPEAKER_05So the benefit of the routine and the predictability and the structure is firstly, it does help with the classroom management and managing all of those different personalities, needs, etc., in the class. It also models to kids that this is what life is like too. Like they're always about, well, how come I have to wear a uniform, have to do that, whatever. This is what happens in the real world. You're not going to be able to turn up to work and just go, oh, I'm too tired, I just don't want to do my work today and fall asleep, or take breaks every now and then, or let your emotions lay bare. You've got to find ways to manage those impulsivities and controls.
SPEAKER_04Can you give me a real life example? Obviously, no naming names, but of a student or class who really benefited from the routines and you saw that success?
SPEAKER_05So definitely my year seven last year, so very complex class. So a lot of high flyers in terms of the number of ASD kids, some other kids ADHD.
SPEAKER_04And what was it about your year seven class from last year, at towards the end of the year, that made you think, yeah, that was a success?
SPEAKER_05Well, definitely their level of achievement, so their learning outcomes. So yeah, they're quite a mixed group in terms of academic kind of success coming from primary school. So again, large number of kids, English, second language, and then kids with other social emotional leads and cognitive disabilities that impacted on their learning. So I think all my routine, all my structure, all my reinforcement, recapping, summarizing, things like that really helped those kids.
SPEAKER_04All right, the last thing we do in these episodes is a five question rapid fire one thing section. Okay. What is one thing you stopped doing that made you a better teacher?
SPEAKER_05I stopped sweating over the small stuff. So the things that I could not control.
SPEAKER_04What is one thing you heard about at uni, but you didn't really understand until you were a practicing teacher?
SPEAKER_05Really just how diverse a classroom can actually be. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What is one thing in your teaching you have become more confident about over time?
SPEAKER_05I think building in those structures and routines because the dynamics of my students have changed. So doing more of those.
SPEAKER_04What is one part of teaching that you still find challenging even now?
SPEAKER_05The workload. All teachers have a tough workload. English, you know, five classes of English from 7 to 12 is a huge marking. Huge marking load. I have a full teaching load, three preparation lessons a week, 210 minutes to manage five classes, prepare, plan, extend, challenge, you know, it's hard. So you've got to use a lot of your own time to get on top of it, build resources and things that help make it easier. But curriculum changes all the time. So you're always I'm always changing, I'm always adapting. I'm now currently teaching Romeo and Juliet for like the 15th, 20th time, and I'm doing it again in a different way. So yeah. And lastly, what is one thing that keeps you in the classroom? My passion for teaching and education, you know, and I absolutely love walking in, building those relationships and connections with students. And even on the toughest days, when you go home and, you know, you sit back and you just try to think of well, what was one positive I can take out of today? And for the most part, 95% of your kids are going to be great, and you're going to go home with a smile on your face and feel like you've done something good.
SPEAKER_04Thank you so much, Tanya. That was my pleasure. You've been listening to The Learning Curve, turning education theory into classroom practice. If this episode was useful, follow the podcast and share it with someone else heading into the classroom. You'll find links and resources in the show notes. The Learning Curve is produced by the University of Queensland's School of Education.