The Prelim Podcast I Episode 7 — Derek Edwards

The Prelim Podcast is super excited to welcome legendary AC Derek Edwards to the studio for Episode 7!  This week, we dive deep into the unbelievable stories that shape Derek’s massive career in the camera department. Talk about a Renaissance man—Derek has done it all, transitioning from actor, model, PA, and Panavision employee to a powerhouse force behind the lens. We take a nostalgic trip back to the '90s to look at his early days learning under legendary DPs and mentors like Malik Sayeed and Shane Hurlbut, ASC. Then, we dive into the late '90s and early 2000s music video boom, where Derek became the ultimate go-to AC—pulling focus on a mind-blowing 2,000+ music videos and sharing sets with icons like Pharrell, Kanye West, and Big Sean!  Derek also opens up about the "teacher mentality" passed down to him by mentor DP Shane Hurlbut, who heavily invested in him early on, and how that transitioned to his work with The Filmmakers Academy.  Derek shares so many great stories in this episode but one of our favs is when he shares an after work mentorship moment with his crew and  "the distance game" he regularly played at bars so the team would learn instinctually the correct focal lengths w/o relying on dials and tech - a one of a kind guy with a one of a kind mind!  Whether you're a gearhead, an aspiring filmmaker, or just love really great crew stories, Derek’s unparalleled industry wisdom spanning decades makes this an incredibly insightful and hughly educational episode you should not miss out on!  

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hey guys, welcome to the Prelim today. Today we have a special guest, our boy, Derek Edwards.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys. Appreciate you guys. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

All right, Derek. Thank you, Derek. Here we go. Thank you for coming on the Prelim Podcast. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

For joining us. Of course. You guys are one of our friends. Yes. Yes, of course. 600 kids, right?

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Represent.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Here we go.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Represent, represent. This is gonna be a fun hour because you have a wide range of jobs in your career.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yeah. 26 years, my friend. 26. Yeah. No, 28 years. I always forget to count the two years old.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

That just means we're old. But that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

You know, try not to age myself, man. I always think Derek's my age or younger every time, and I forget. He is. You're old too. Don't you know he's trying to play it off.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

He just looks young. He's staying young. I am like, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Young funny boy. This is what they would say, right? Yeah. Matt.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

That's funny. Now, Derek, um, where are you originally from? You grew up in LA, or you're not from LA?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Born and raised LA kid.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Oh, excellent.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Uh, ten of us in the industry that are born and raised. Yeah, everybody else is from.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Yeah, you're one of them, too. Yeah. Two. Yeah, two. Two in the room, two in the room. Yeah, hey, I guess I don't belong here.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Sesame Street. Which one? What do you transplant? We take take everybody in these days.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Nice. So you grew up uh yearning to be in film, uh, or how did you have a passion for it?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

You know what? Okay, let's let's go to the beginning if we're gonna really do it. So my parents used to go on these cruises. My parents were travelers, and my father, to get me out the way, gave me a Nikon film camera. And he told me, he's like, You're gonna be the family photographer. And he taught me to use this, and I was like 12 years old, and he taught me to use the film camera. He was like the meters inside, and he was teaching me all these things. I was like, Oh, this is this is cool, you know. And I was taking all these pictures, and they get the pictures back, and like, wow, they were everybody was always impressed with my pictures. Time travels on. I learned that I was cute, so I was like, oh, I'm gonna be a model, I'm gonna be an actor. My father worked for the government, my mother was a principal, so I had no idea of anything in the film industry. So I started acting and modeling, and I did some spots, I had my SAG cart, and I was going, and I do this job, I do a music video with a DP uh named Ernest Dickerson, who I didn't know who this was at the time. And I'm on set and I'm the main talent, lead male talent, and I'm walking around, and you know, I get craft service. And you know, when you're an actor, especially, and this is '96, '97, whatever's happening on the other side of the camera, you know nothing about like the lights and all the camera. Like, you knew, especially in those days, the film cameras knew nothing about it. And I ended up somehow I ended up on the other side, and I'm looking, and there's this black guy sitting on the camera, big Panavision camera with dreadlocks hanging down. And I'm going, I'm like, wow, what's this guy doing? You know, just me and my personality, I look at him, I go, hey, you know, what are you, what are you doing? And he proceeds to tell me, you know, he's like, I'm lighting this scene, we're gonna do this. You know, he's really getting into these details, and I'm going, wow, you know, I'm telling him, I'm a photographer, and we're just having this great conversation. And he looks and he goes, you know, stay back here with me, you know, and he kind of took me under his wing, you know, and now knowing today, he must have thought I was a PA. And he was like, Oh, you're gonna be the new camera intern. Come, you know, because back in those days, we could have camera interns, you know, like come on set. And I'm standing back there and I'm learning all this stuff, and I'm going, This is awesome! Like, this is great. So they shoot the scene, and the AD, he talked to the AD, which I didn't know was AD at the time. He looks at AD and he goes, Hey, this kid is gonna stay in camera department. You know, we're gonna take one of your PAs. And the AD looks over at me and he's like, You're you're not one of my PAs. And I'm like, he goes, Who are you? And I go, Oh, I'm one of your lead talent. I'm gonna be in one of the scenes. And he goes, We were just looking for you. Like, we just shot your scene. Oh no, and I was just like, Oh, okay, you know, I was fine with it. And Ernest still took me in the camera department and just had me shadowing him for the rest. When we're shooting at Prince's Club back in the day, and it was Gladstones, Gladstones, and it was this huge thing. And um, he told me he was like, Yeah, these cameras are from Panavision. Being in LA, I don't know what it is growing up in LA. In those times, it's different now, but you didn't learn about the film industry, you know, especially my parents being who they were. It wasn't like they were like, go out and be an artist or do anything. It was, you know. So, me being a model and actor, my parents were always looking at me like, you know, is this really, you know, you're a biology major, like, you know, you should be doing these things in school. My mom wanted me, you know, you always have a degree. You know, that's what they you gotta have a degree. No matter what you do, you have to have a degree. Fall back on something. Exactly, something to fall back on. And um, Ernest just talked to me and talked to me and told me about PanaVision. And I made that my goal. I was like, I'm gonna do this. This is gonna be cool.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

And I more so cool than being a model or an actor?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

I was a photographer at heart. At heart, uh so that was your niche. It the bug was planted. It the bug bug was planted. So I didn't I didn't know what to do because there was no computers or like I couldn't go online and there's no self phone. How do I get into the phone? You know, like there was none of that. Yeah, so I'm I'll I'll never forget, and I always tell people all the time I'm like, whatever you do in this industry, stay humble. Stay humble. This industry is about being extremely humble. And I went into um Craigslist, and back then they would have PA jobs, and you would get a mill, a copy, and credit because everything was on film, so you would get like this VHS copy of what you did. And I was like, okay, you know, like I'll go out and do one of these jobs. Let me tell you this. I got a job, and this is 97 still, and I was still trying to figure it out. And I get to set and they introduce me to everybody, and the AD goes, Oh, you're here to help us today? Okay, great. And this is when everybody smokes cigarettes real heavy, and you know, there's cigarette butts just every everywhere he went, there's cigarette butts. He goes, We're gonna shoot outside next. Go outside and make sure there's no cigarette buds or trash around the house. And I was kind of like, oh, okay. And I walked outside, and I must have sat outside for about 15 minutes, and I went in my car and left. I was like, I'm not picking up cigarette butts, like get out, like, get out of here. No, that's you know, way beyond what I'm gonna do in this industry. Man, years later, uh years later, I finally get a job at Panavision. I get a call, I get told about Panavision, and I go to Panavision and I interview PanVision Hollywood. They just moved to their brand new Hollywood building. They were over on another street before, and they're in this brand new building. And I get there and I interview. And Dominic Aiello, joining my mentors, love Dominic. Dominic, thank you. I'm here because of you. Um, tells me, he goes, Yeah, great interview. We'd love to have you. There's a two-year waiting list, and we'll give you a call if something opens up. And I walk out of there and I'm like, this is 97. I'm like, 98. And I'm like, waiting list, like, who goes on a waiting list for this job? And I went back to my other job. Two months down the line, I was just over this other job, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna call PandaVision. I call and I'm like, hey, this is Derek Edwards.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

I'm just just checking in, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And they go, hey, we just lost somebody. Come on down. Like, so I literally tell my boss the next day, I go, hey, I have an interview at another company. If I get the job, I'm not coming back anymore. You know, and he looked at me and he was like, Well, I was like, I was like, I'll be back if I don't get the job, I'll be back. And he's just like, all right, whatever. So I got the job, didn't show back up. That Monday, I show up to work, and I'm in the back, and they're like, okay, so every day when you come in, you know, they teach me about the tier system. It's a two-year internship. Every three months, you kind of move up a little bit because every three months someone moves out. So when someone leaves the two years, someone new comes in.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

I was like, okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

And he looks at me, he goes, So every morning for your first three months, you're gonna go get this trash bag over here, and you're gonna walk around the building and you're gonna pick up all the cigarette buds.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Was destined to follow you. He dated back.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

And I just shook, I put my head down, and I shook my head, and I was like, and it it humbled me out. It was like, okay, hey, you're you're on the bottom ground floor, you know, you gotta make this work for yourself. And during that time, I saw music videos. This is where music videos were huge. I was sitting at home and I saw Hype Williams, Mo Money, More Problems music video, and I looked and I was like, this is it. This after the Ernest Dickerson thing with that music video, and I was like, I want to do music videos, I want to work with this guy because they were blowing up his name, you know, biggest director in the world, you know, at the time. And that was it, man.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

And I got on that train and and you because back then there were two Panavisions in the LA, Woodland Hills, and Hollywood, but they were two different like you guys specialized in commercial commercials and music videos.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Woodland Hills was TV and movies, features, which is crazy because so back then TV shows were shot on Remember the Lane? Yeah, of course, the 16 miles. Yeah, 16 mil lane. Hollywood held on to all the 16 mil cameras. So we would service and prep all the cameras and then send them to Woodland Hills, but also the preps were different. Like when you went to Woodland Hills, and I'm not bashing Woodland Hills, but you would go there to prep and you say, Hey, uh, I need a FF4, whatever you needed, and the prep tech would disappear and be gone for like an hour. And what would you do in that hour?

SPEAKER_02 11:51

No, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

No, I I wasn't, I mean, to an extent, because you know, I I will say this in in our time, and and I know that you you were a little you're older than me, we we would have a movie prep, a commercial prep, possibly two TV shows. Right. So we were running around dealing, you know, so we'd be going to the other preps, but granted, I wasn't one of the prep techs that disappeared for hours, but I I understand what you're saying. Also, the difference was you were a lifer.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I had to make these connections because at the end of the year, I'm out of there. I didn't have a job.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Yeah, and the preps were faster, like your commercial videos, yeah, videos one day at that where they already had features that would be there for two months.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, two or three days. But you didn't have to worry about impressing that first AC to get you on a job. If you made an impression, great, but for me it was hey, look what I'm doing because I want to come load for you on these commercials and music videos. So and the prep, our preps were different. We had a whole checkoff system to where we would pretty much build the camera up. We would prep the whole job before the before they even walked in. Yeah, and if there was something missing, somehow it would get back to Dominic. And like I said, and then it would become a conversation of why didn't you have this ready? Why wasn't this pre-prepped? What were you waiting for? And for me, Dominic being my mentor, Dominic was he was the brainiac.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I I mean, you you know, I like I was blessed to work with him once he left Hollywood and he came to us in the early 2000s, right? You know, after your stint over there.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

So no, he mad knowledge, you know, he had yeah, Panavision, long oh well, prep text, long hours, low pay, but a passion.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

The hours weren't bad. No, because we were we had to be out of there by no back then commercials also, they weren't trying to stay past four o'clock. So by like six, seven o'clock, you were leaving. You were pulled you pulled as much as your job as you could for the next day, but by seven o'clock you were leaving. Unless it was a weird late night where you know the camera guy turned from super 35 to whatever, you know, or the administration test was bad and you they needed a new camera, a new body altogether.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

I've been on that. Yeah, like, damn it.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

But it wasn't I remember to this day, I'll my check every I think it was every two weeks. I think my check was eight hundred dollars and a week. No, two. Every two weeks. Oh, every two weeks. And my rent was only six hundred dollars though. So I had a little bit of money. I didn't have a ton of money, but you know, I wasn't struggling. And the funny thing is, is so when I left, when I left Panavision, I left Panavision August 28, I'll never forget. I left Panavision August 28, 19, 1999, and I was going, okay, I'm leaving Panavision. I made $35,000 the year before. I was like, I need to make $35,000 every year to survive. And I did the map. Loaders were getting paid $350 for $10. Then I go, oh, I just need to work 100 days. Like that can't be hard. From August to December, I had made like 60 G. Double. And I was just like, I got this.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Rich. This is gonna be great. I'm gonna have a blast, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

And it just went crazy. Uh um, my first job leaving Panavision was a Tina Turner music video with Daniel Pearl, and um, I'll never forget because it was Daniel Pearl and Bognan, which if you know Bognan, you know Bognan, and they got into it. And I remember just being a loader, just standing off to the side watching. And that day, that very first day, I ate lunch by myself, sitting there going, should I have left Panavision? Maybe this was a mistake. I don't know what to do. I panicked, and I was just like, because I was like, the friction on set was real, you know, especially in those days with the DPs and stuff. Like the DP was the man, you couldn't tell him anything.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

But well, sets back then weren't like they are now, exactly. Yeah, they're you mean you weren't spoken to nicely, and they were, you know, every word in the book was was lost.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, and you know, you being at Panavision, like I always say, when you're there, they need you.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Until you leave, nobody needs you anymore. Yeah, you're on your own. It was tough, you know, and I I think anybody that has left the camera house, any camera house, you learn just like what you said that first day, did I make the right decision?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Make the right decision, you know, and it it became it became a hustle that I didn't understand because I'd never like they don't teach you set any role in you know the rental houses. They don't know this is what you do, this is how you act, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Even I mean, they you know, like the person you're with who takes you out, they teach you how to load the mag, but that's a small part of your job as the loader. I mean, there's so much other things like you had to probably learn on the fly.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I learned, well, uh Panavis, we learned everything at Panavision. So I learned how to load at Panavision. The funny thing is I would get on jobs and the first ACs would give me a dummy role, and they say, Let me see you load the mag so they could just verify I knew what I was doing. Yeah. And after after about a couple months, everyone started telling me they're like, you're not a loader, you're not a second AC, you're gonna be a first AC. And I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, no, I just wanted to be a second. I was like, I know all the gear. Dominic being my mentor, he was just a problem solver. And that was that's what I really enjoyed. I enjoyed the problems in hey, we want to do this scene. I the first, the first big scene I saw Dominic take care of was on Fight Club when he shoots himself in the mouth and they do that full wraparound and they do it in slow motion. Like Dominic designed that. He like the DP came in, and Dominic helped, and I was just like, dude, you're a genius, like with this camera gear, like figuring this stuff out. I was like, this is awesome. This is what I wanted to do. And from there, you know, you start working with other DPs and you see how they work. And Waleik Said was one of my mentors, you know, he'd done all the movies, you know, all the Spike Lee movies back then. And I was like, this dude is a genius. And then I worked with I worked with Shane, I was a PA, Gary Hadfield mentor, uh, first AC mentor, brought me in as a PA on Brat Patt. I don't know if you guys remember. Remember the HBO? It was on HBO, Brat Pat. Yeah, and I work, got to work with Shane, and I was just like, this is a genius too. Like, where are these guys learning these techniques of lighting and this that's been going on for you know a hundred years? Like, these guys are brilliant. So it just became became ideal for me just to just to drive down that street and try to figure it all out and have some fun and figure out what I was gonna do. Because I had I was clueless. People were like, well, what do you want to do? And at the time, you know, every young kid at that time wants to be a director. Like, I want to be a director, I want to be a director, you know. That was the hot, cool thing. I didn't know what a DP did, and they were like, Oh, he's a photographer. And I was like, Oh, I'm a photographer, I can, you know, and you don't know, but I think I spent six years seconding, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Six year seconding in all commercials, music videos, I was because back then it was hard to like TV was kind of over there.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Well, TV was a whole different run because back then they were doing all those crews were doing two shows. They would do like a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then their next show would be like Thursday, Friday. Like, I don't like a sitcom world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I to this day I'm not sure how it worked because I never got into those pockets. But they would they would be doing they would do two shows, but the crews would never leave. They would they were like lifers on these shows forever.

SPEAKER_04 20:37

Yeah, back then you work two days, get paid for three. That was the beauty of that.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

That was that, and these guys were buying houses and their cars, and it was like you said, like it's different assistants, different people, different pockets, and you know totally different.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

And I I'd made a great name for myself in music video world. Um, my first day, Davey Cruthers, like taught me so much. And Davey, Davy was my connection to Malik, because Davy was Malik's uh first AC, so I would start seconding, and then Malik was my connection to Hype. And even to this day, my first Hype Williams shop, I'll never forget. And I was I was sitting at home and it was it was the best. I was sitting at home and I get a call from Davey. He goes, Hey, we're shooting a music video, we're shooting a DMX music video at the Hollywood Cemetery. Are you available to come out right now? We need an extra person. And I was like, Yeah, yeah. Hop in my car and I drive. It's raining outside, they're doing a night shoot, and I'm just like, oh, it's my dream, who cares? You know. And I get there, and there's a big pop up. And Hype used to hire his cousin Andre, was always have DJs back then. Like used to have like full DJs would come out to. You know, was it just someone playing music on their phone? Like it was a whole DJ with the music and everything. And they were playing music. And they were just having this great time. And I pull up and I'm like, there's music blast at the cemetery. Just not a not DMX's song, just random music blasting. And everybody's and I go and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm here and I got my bags. And they go, all right, go put your bags in the truck, come back out. We're waiting. And I was like, no way.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

That's why they were playing music. They're in the guitar.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

It was raining outside. DMX didn't want to come out of his trailer. We stayed outside at the cemetery for eight hours listening to music. They rapped us. I never saw Hype once. I didn't see him not once. That might have been your shortest hype of your mistake.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

It was probably. Probably. Yeah. Hype, hype being the, you know, for the younger audience that doesn't know he was the cream of the crop music video director.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

So this must have been 2099.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

This is probably 2001, 2002, somewhere, somewhere in that part. Because I was still loading, also. Oh, because I thought I was going in to load, and they're like, no, you're going to be a second AC. And I was just like, oh, thank God. But I met the whole, like, I met Wayne Gorin on that job. Oh, yeah. Wayne. Yeah. Yeah. I met Wayne. I met um who else was out there? There's a lot of people out there I met. And I was just like, this is this is hype Williams jobs.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

I mean, music videos back then were huge. Thumb. I remember just getting, you would always get blisters on your thumb because you ran so much, they ran so much film. And you know, with the crank and the air.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

People don't know what a film cut is. Like, if you know what a film cut is, you know. You're screwed. You're done. That finger's not gonna work for the rest of the night. And uh I dude, I just I I made my run and and it was the the scary, not the scary thing, the weird thing is is when you're at when I was a prep tech at Hollywood, I remember people would always leave and they go work. Like you would get a call. Like if you could get a job on the weekend, you could go do these jobs on the weekend. And everybody above me and below me was getting all these jobs. And I was panicking. I was like, I haven't I haven't gotten one job, you know. And I finally get my first job, and this is tell people this first day sees to understand this story. I I get my first job, guy asked me, he's like, hey, we're shooting this uh roller, roller hockey thing in Santa Monica, you know, it's an SR3, you know, do you want to come out and like I think we have a hundred bucks, you know, you'll be the first, second, and do all the loading, you know, one of those jobs back then. I was like, yes, you know, most definitely. And I get out there and I have my brand new belt and all this tape hanging from me, and you know, I'm thinking I'm doing this thing. And it's only one shot that I that always holds on to my heart. It was he goes, okay, the kid's gonna start at one end of the hockey ring and he's gonna skate to the other end. And you know, we're gonna be down there.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Sounds easy. Catch him.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

So in my head, I'm going, oh my God, okay, I gotta get marks. You know, I put the lens on, and I'll tell you what lens it was afterwards. But I put the lens on and I'm getting all these marks, like uh, you know, soft tape, because there's I didn't have a laser yet, and I'm measuring, you know, all these writing down, all these marks and everything. And the DP looks at me and he goes, you know, there's no polar and no ind in there. It's the middle of the day, so it's probably like a you know, 16, 20, you know, it's like I'm 11 somewhere, somewhere high. And the DP looks at me, he goes, Derek, it's a 10 mil. You're gonna be okay. And I just remember like the kids skating, and I'm like, you know, doing shaking and but yeah, that was my introduction. That was that was literally my first job out of Panavision. And I hadn't even left Panavision yet to go on to the bigger things. And I was just like, once I had a taste of first thing, I enjoyed it, but I was so scared of it. Because in those days, you know, they used to call it the widowmaker. Like you get fired off of jobs, you know, real quick, go to dailies and the next day you get fired. You'd have to come to work. Yeah, you know, you hey, let's all watch dailies and see your soft work on during lunch, during the movie, and you're just like with everybody.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Yeah, well, the bigwigs, yeah, you know, all the important people.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah, and as a second AC, you didn't get fired. It was your first AC calling you, going, hey, we didn't get invited back. Yeah. And you're like, What do you mean, we?

SPEAKER_04 27:00

We. What did I do? Like, I need this check. What did I do? What did I do?

SPEAKER_01 27:05

So yeah, it was it was a it was a weird world trying to transition and figuring out between, you know, Malik and you know, Shane and all the DPs in between. But I think during during my first run in music videos, I probably did over a thousand music videos. And if you put that in your head and think about it, you know, a lot. It's a lot. That's three years of music videos every day. But you guys know, like you'd be on one music video and the DPU would book you for the next three. And you would do, you know, your gear wouldn't even get checked in. It was like, all right, we're just gonna roll this gear over to the next day. It's it has to go in, and they're just gonna send it right back out. So, and we loved it. It was, you know, we didn't we didn't know that those music videos in that time was gonna be the heyday music videos. We were just we were just working, we were having a good time, you know, and I laugh at all the music videos. I was listening to Conrad, and he was like, Yeah, we did uh walk into Atlanta. Oh, yeah, dude. I did all the other parts of that. I did all the travel parts. So when I sat, because I had always wondered who did this. I was like, man, Snoop's right won't be chunk, like we went to Atlanta, we went to St. Louis, we went to New York, but I didn't do LA.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

So talking about music, which who was your favorite or what favorite artist out of all those music, favorite song, where you were like, damn, like favorite song?

SPEAKER_04 28:38

Well, because you have to like the song when you're working on it because it's 20 some hours of listening to it over and over on level 11.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Well, obviously, you're you're a hype Williams level, so you're getting the cream of the crop.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Um my favorite song, probably through all that, was N-E-R-D Rockstar.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Oh, wow. Is that in Virginia? Because that was here. That's when they're on the they're on the ramp. No, no, no. They're riding the bikes.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

They're on stage and they're all dressed up. This uh this video played, it was in black and white.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Rock star?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

I'm a rock star. I remember that song. Yeah, if you believe if you watch the music video. Because I remember they're in the house. No? Once I'm off all right.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

You got the song.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, I'm not the right song. Okay. But also in those days, if you remember, they would do there might be two videos of the same song. Yeah, you're right. So they would redo the video and it would play a little while. But Hype introduced me to NERD, and this is when Pharrell was a little kid. So like he would talk to everybody, like, you know, and Pharrell, Kanye, and Big Sean. Like, I shot, I shot one of Big Sean's first, I didn't shoot it. I was on one of Big Big Sean's first music videos. And like, we used to talk on, we used to have each other's numbers. I used to talk to him all the time. He had he was when he was with uh Kanye with good music. Yeah, he was with good music under Kanye. And dude, they were the nicest people. They were the nicest people in the world, and they just wanted to hang out, and you know, everybody wanted to party. And the hype William days, we got to the point where I mean, drinking on, you know, drinking on set and partying on set was a way of life.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

I don't know how we made it, you know, and how made it you know you were in your 20s and early 30s, a different story.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

But also the business was like that. I mean, every truck had a cooler, yeah, yeah, had a pen of functions. Um we'll get to that later, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Oh so I I wanted to bring up a little bit about Shane and you know the film academy. Filmmakers academy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

So Shane, Shane has always been he's been a trailblazer since I've met the guy. He, you know, he takes on these projects, and you I've I guess the word is I've never seen someone so passionate about filmmaking. Like he loves filmmaking. He lives it. He lives it. And we all we all heard the stories and we saw the videos of the Terminator thing of and when I heard it and I saw it, and I was like, well, Shane's a tweaker. He's always trying to make it better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

A tweaker being somebody that finesses light. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

The other guy is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

We've got to be careful.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

You know, so he was just always adjusting light and doing these things. So once I got to work with Shane under, I was like, oh, this dude is this guy's pretty smart. This guy knows, you know, he has ideas, he has great ideas, he's passionate. If you have an idea, he'll listen to you. And me and Shane, through Gary Hatfield, me and Shane bonded. I mean, Shane used to do, Shane used to shoot all the when HBO was first coming out. Remember, they had like it was like Carnival and like all those, they had all those HBO shows for a minute, and Shane would go out and we'd shoot all the promos. We wouldn't do the shows, but we'd do all these promos. And the promos on HBO were the biggest things you would see. And I was like, this guy is awesome. So he got to the point, he's always trained, and we went down, like we were the 5D gurus, you know, when all this these things were coming out. And the goal was always to teach people. Like he didn't he didn't want to hold the formulas, you know, and he was one of the first people that I met who was pumping his share, you know, like which was not the case. No, no, DPs wanted to hold on to their formula and not tell anybody because everybody was afraid of someone taking their job. But Shane was like, no, this is how I did it. I did this, I did this, I did all these things. This is, you know, oh, you want to do it too. And we did it. He had a website and it didn't work out as well until social media became a thing. And then when social media became a thing, he came to me and he literally gave me a contract. And he was like, hey, this is what I want to do. And we're gonna do, we're gonna do these podcasts, we're gonna do these videos, we're gonna do live shows. I think, I think one of the first things I did with Filmmakers Academy is they set up a whole like demo in Europe somewhere, and it was me and Shane talking at a table with gear to all these kids who were on the East Coast, just open and asking us questions. And we had such a good time, you know, if all these young, and this is getting to the digital era now, but all these kids who were just so fascinated with what we did, and you know, same as how I felt, they didn't know, you know, there's we came up and there was I call it a pyramid, and I shouldn't, or a totem pole, whatever, but you were the little man of the totem pole, and then the second or first that you learned from them, and then you moved up, but you only moved up when you had the experience, or the and the slot available. Yeah, the slot, but mostly it was the experience. Like once you have the experience, if a first was if your A first was going to operate, that meant the second AC was gonna first, and that meant the loader was going to second. Everybody got bumped up, everybody got bumped up. You know, we we wrote the pyramid up, and it got to a point now to where if you want to be a first AC, what do you do? You go out, you buy a 703, you buy a nucleus, and you shoot Pablo's feature, and now you're fresh.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

And you know, with AFI and all those things, just you just walk into it. It's not you don't start from the street.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

The structure is is completely changed, which we'll can talk about. Yeah, that's I mean, well, yeah, when we all started, you you couldn't just work your way up. Yeah, you had to pick up it was rare for people to come into it that started at a certain level. They were either the producer's son or daughter or somebody who had clout because it didn't happen unless you know not even a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So with Shane, it was interesting to share. And I remember he came to me, he was like, I want to do these videos. Uh, we used to do a lot more, but you know, everybody gets we used to do tips of the day, tips, tips of the month. We used to do, you know, we try to put out a video every three to six months of something new. I remember my first video, he was like, I want to show, I want to show the industry what's in your case. And I was like, and I looked at him, I was like, What's in my case? He was like, he was like, ACs don't know what gear to buy. He was like, How do you know what gear to buy if you are just starting off as a second in the digital era? Because there's no loader, there's no one to mirror or to, you know, like I can't, you know, once I go into set, what are you utilities? If you're utilities, you're chasing the DITs. So you never have this formula to learn. So, and I I designed everyone had that big that that run bag, Larry bag, dude. I hated, I hated that bag so I was like, I called it a black hole. I was like, whatever you put in this bag, it's gonna end up at the bottom. So I had did that whole pelican, and this is before track pack was a thing, but I had all my um photography soft pouches, you know, and I designed things like, yeah, we're gonna show this off. And we did it, and it was a hit. It was like people loved it. I was getting emails, I was getting comments. Where do I buy this? Where do we get these things? You know, the amount of people that I come up to me and they go, Oh my God, I got my MERS because you had a MRS. And I was just like, I was like, wow, I was like, this is fun. This is fun sharing with people, you know, teaching them how to do these things because I don't I don't think we realize, you know, especially with the three of us, where we are in the industry, like what caliber we're at and how much information we hold, that's never gonna get shared with anybody.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

You know, why you do what you do, you know. How do you build a battery card on a movie? How do you label cases properly?

SPEAKER_04 37:34

Well, we came up in an era where we were fortunate to have the guidance and those that were willing to pass it down. Because you had to, if you were gonna be a team player on a on a on a camera team, everybody had to support each other, and they didn't want to just keep one person or two people in the dark. I mean, you everybody got lifted up. Knowledge is power. And it makes the set run smooth with that knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

So we, you know, it's different now, but and I saw that's crafts, crafts, crafts, arts and crafts is what I called it. I was like, yeah, yeah, everybody has to do arts and crafts. Right, and like, you know, but so it it it was awesome working with Shane and developing it, and then it just got big. It just, you know, now he does grip things. Now he's you can literally go in Filmmaker's Academy and understand how to light a full scene. He'll he'll he goes into so this movie I shot, this is exactly how I did it. No one's doing that. All these GPs have all this information, like what share, guys. If we want the quality of filmmaking to get better at this point, we have to figure out another way of sharing this information and you know, teaching tools because especially now in the era of you know, of no, but of social media, yeah, everybody can pass it on and share it.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Well, you know, and that's where we're at.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

And in the digital world, too, from film to digital, I mean you had to day exterior, you know, you in a film world, you were always having lights in day exterior, and then totally different worlds. Totally different now, totally a different world. Sometimes you don't even light an interior, you're just cranking it up, and you're like, man, if so and so saw this, he'd be rolling in his grate right now.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

It's an amazing, it's an amazing fun world. There's if if you haven't seen it, and I tell this to everybody, there's a documentary out there called Side by Side. And they compare film to digital, but this is before digital was even a big format yet. And they go, Keanu Reeves is the host, and they go through all these questions. And I sit there and I I live by it because I'm like, everybody on there was so excited about the digital world. They're like, Oh yeah, we can make films anywhere, everyone can make films, anyone can do anything. And there was only one producer, one, who said, when they asked him, What do you think about this? He said, This is gonna end up bad. He goes, There's not a judge out there to say what's good or bad anymore, and we're just gonna end up with tons of content that nobody gets to ever see.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

And losing the technical side of things as a technician operating the that equipment. Yeah, the formula was the formula was disappearing. If you made the smallest mistake in film, you were fired. If you went put in an N3 and you accidentally gave him a clear or N96, boom, you were fired.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

I was gonna I was gonna ask Derek, do you have any story about dealing with the labs since you had so much time in the dark room?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

I never I never had it. I was I was taught gosh, I was taught a really strict system. I always had a checkoff list. PanaVision started me with that checkoff list. Like you go through, it's always like 15 things that you check off. And being a loader, you know, every night it was talking to the deep, what are we doing to this film? You know, we're gonna push it, we're gonna pull, like all the notes. And I was really meticulous about that. So I never had, you know, except for, hey, you know, there's a couple scratches.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Well, that's yeah, because where where we're trying to go is like the lab is notorious for blaming the camera department for errors that they make, whether it's you know, a scratch that goes the whole thing or a little scratch or edge fog or this or that, they will always put the blame on the camera department. And it's the camera the first they see back then's responsibility to like, well, is it edge fog? Is it this? Is this what's the color of this?

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Well, there can't be that because and that's why they had tech rate because they were actual going into it and they're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, well, tech rate, camera department. That's that's one of my things with camera department and what we do. We we have a bubble that we're supposed to stick to, but we get so comfortable with doing things. You know, tech rate still exists. Oh no, yeah, for sure. Tech rate it's changed, it's changed. It's changed, but tech rate. My first time coming across tech rate was pulling focus on a fist. Oh right. Yeah, because that was yeah, you get the remote focus rate. Yeah, remote focus rate. But we got to a point, and sorry, sorry to say we got lazy and we wanted to pull focus at a monitor. On your chair, in your chair. You just made it the way. Yeah, yeah. And we lost that tech rate. I literally did two years. This is and this is just me being me, but I did two years of calling DPs going, hey, do we need remote focus? And they would go, yes or no. But when they said no, I'd say, okay, great, I'm gonna have an FF4 and I'm gonna write the dolly. And I would get there, and you know who would have the biggest problem with it? Dolly grip. The dolly grip. Right. I didn't bring the chair. I gotta push both of you around now. And I was like, I was like, this is the way. It's like, where's your mod or go to the back room somewhere? I was like, I learned to pull focus, I learned to see focus. Like the things that what I went through to learn how to pull focus was a whole thing. I never my bedroom, and I can see my bedroom today. I would sit in my bedroom and there were sticky pads. Like this picture over here had a sticky pad on it said 15 feet. You know, if I could see, I could see down the hallway to the bathroom. I know that corner that I could see was 25 feet. You know, I learned to distances. See, distance. We used to take, we used to take, and I'll never forget my little cheap uh blue laser from Sears, but we'd take our laser into bars, and it was me and two of my buddies, and we'd laser something. And you had to guess the distance. If you were a foot off, you had to take a sip of beer. If you were three foot off, you'd have to take a shot. If you were more than five, you had to buy the next round. So we walk out of there drunk.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Sounds like a funny way. Now, would you get better as the night went on? You would get better.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

You would come back the next day and you because we'd always you know back then we'd always go to the same bars. You'd find your little dive bar. But you would see that distance, and you're like, oh, oh, that's 15 feet. Oh, this person is, you know, and you're like, okay, I'm getting it. So now, like, what do you you have a bunch of people well? Yeah, you're staring at a monitor. And I tell kids all the time, I go, Do you do you learn, did you learn distance also still? Are you practicing? And they go, no. And I go, what are you gonna do when your monitor turns off during a shot? Or your tarot isn't working during a shot, or your cresting goes out or something, and you got to get on the knob. On the knob. Well, especially on a big movie, they're not gonna wait for you to figure out the show must go out. Yeah, you know, so the cadence and teaching, and you know, I I tip my hat to Shane all the time with the filmmakers academy. I'm like, dude, this is this is awesome. I wish it didn't have to be a paid thing so more people could be a part of it. Because, you know, once you start paying for something, people they have feelings toward that, but it's the only way to support the information he's getting.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Well, this is great. Let's let's let's give the information for free on the podcast. Yeah. Um, as a first AC, when you're prepping, what are some of your must checklists? Because as I mean, there's a thousand and one things to deal with as a first AC at a prep, and there's very little time to deal with one thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

How do you how do you organize, how do you go throughout the day?

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Um I I'm old school in the sense where number one, if I didn't touch it, it didn't get prepped. So, and this is this is the the one space I can divide and I conquer is whether it's film or digital. When I get to a prep, everything comes out of the case. Yeah, every bit, every cable, everything comes out of. So when you walk into my prep in the beginning, everything's just on the floor. And I proceed to build the camera, which we all do, and just my first hour is just plugging in cables. You know, I I know tons of people who don't plug in their backup cables. They're like, oh, it's backup. I'm like, what if it doesn't work? You know, and then backup screwed. Yeah. Right. For some reason for me, if you didn't prep it, it's not gonna work. It's not gonna work. Of course. That's the Murphy's rule. That's the rule, right? So with film, I'm a little bit, it's a it's one way because now I'm testing the mags, testing how loud the camera is. I'm checking if the mags are generating scratches, you know, pulling the mag to the light, to you're doing all these things. Those those are my first things with film that I'm looking at. Um, because the camera is a machine. The camera is an analog machine, it works. Registration test. Yeah, but that all that's all back when we with film. That's all that's that's that whole film side to it. So once, and that's always been built in my head is if I can trust the film running through the camera, the motor works. The only thing else to pay attention to is if my lenses are sharp. They're coming up, yeah. Correct. Now, go to a digital world, it's two hours of me going through menus. You know, like, all right, ratio, you know, how many K's do we need to see? You know, are the assigned buttons set up correctly for this deep? He likes one and three, with the last one, like five and you know, going through all these buttons.

SPEAKER_04 47:45

But in doing all that, you're getting tons of phone calls. We need to order this.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

We need to so like how do you stay I the my my multitasking basically? My and unfortunately with me, uh well, it's not unfortunate, it's my life, but I emails, and this is how I categorize things. Emails means I can get to it when I need to get to it. And I've told told productionists, I tell my DPs that everybody knows. If you need to get a hold of me now, then it's a text message. And unfortunately, when you come in and you see me sitting on a director's chair in the corner, that's normally what I'm doing. So I I'm there to prep. I love talking to all my friends at preps and everything. With her to work. I'm not, you know, I love to talk, I love to have a conversation. We all do, you know. Oh, how you been and what you work, you know. Man, I got six hours to get out of here because I probably either I came in late or I just got my camera and it's one o'clock, you know, on a Friday, you know, and I have to burn through this. So a lot of times some of that stuff gets put on hold until the end of the day, which is it's not the best way because now once I'm reading the emails and I go, the camera's going super 35. Oh, we gotta order these, okay, you know, which isn't the best way. So I'm blessed that my second ACs always want to come to the preps for free. And I'm great at saying, hey, take care of this. Hey, do this. But also when I'm doing that for them, I also let them know I'm prepping you to be a first AC. Yeah, these are the things you're gonna have to deal with. This is the etiquette, you're not gonna get taught. You're just gonna go into a job and these things, this is what happens. This is what happens, you know.

SPEAKER_04 49:51

The backstory.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Dude, if I went through the list of my every second AC I've ever hired has surpassed me to do better things, you know, whether they're operating, whether they're shooting. Like, I've always taught every AC to be better than me. Like, this is what I do, this is my way. That it's not the way, this is my way. I'm gonna teach you my way. And then when you go to the next job, you take my way, you take Tony's way, you take Paolo's way, and you build your own system. Yeah, make your own system. So for me, and you know, we were just prepping yesterday and we're getting all these calls, you know. Oh, this needs to happen. We need to have these lenses. I look at my second AC and I go, hey, can you handle these calls? If you can't handle them, I'll hop in there. But that also helps me get the camera out the way so then I can also jump on it. If it's a film job, and you know, the only film jobs I've done recently have been for features, which is nice. So we have a little bit more, you know, yeah, three or four days to do something like that. I haven't done any commercials lately that are features, and it's just a one-day prep. They're out there, of course they're out there, and it's probably a lot more to deal with, but yeah, you just have to okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

It's always like the worst feeling after a prep, like uh you get in your car, like going through the checklist of million things.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

The finder. I forgot the finder. You know, like the doors closed. You're like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

First thing, but people always forget too how much stuff we're doing in one day. Goes into it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

It's a lot. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pieces of different pieces of equipment.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

I tell produce, I've I've told multiple producers, I was like, I want you to come down to the prep and see what I do. Like, so you'll you'll understand, you know, when you guys call and say, Hey, we're gonna do a a pre-light, but you gotta prep before the pre-late. So can you have the package done by 12 o'clock? And you're going, dude, the gear might not get there until 11. Right. You know, and he's like, Well, don't you just have to put the lens on? And just and I'm like, No. I was like, if if I do that, something's gonna fail. I was like, there's a reason that we get a prep, and I always challenge him. I go, you know what? Tell your AD that he can't make a schedule, that he just has to show up and shoot. Tell any other department that they're not gonna get some form of prep to be prepared for the job. And it's the weirdest thing because being in the camera department, we're the first ones where they're like, when we hear, oh, let's let's shoot the rehearsal. You guys have spent three hours setting up this whole great scenario. Now you're taking away my 30 seconds to what two minutes to get a rehearsal to understand what's gonna happen so it's in focus? To strive for perfection. Take one, take one, let's get it. And they go, Oh, there's gonna be some magic there. You know what the number number one thing I hate hearing is we have faith in you, Derek.

SPEAKER_04 53:06

I'm like, dude. Damn, I guess we don't have to ask that question. We don't know later. Yeah, we might hear that again. Yeah, like you just you're throwing me under the bus right now, right? Well, in in the film days, I I mean I I worked on many TV shows where you know, the next you know, in in the morning, you would hear notes from the producers what in the editorial, like, hey man, B camera or a camera, whatever camera was soft. Software we gotta get rid of that person, and like we get fired right there. Like for, and they wouldn't know, like, you know, the director would be like, no, we don't need to go again, we'll use a different like so on the set, you know, you came on, I buzzed it, yeah. Oh no, you're fine. And then like the next day, the people that don't hear that conversation, boom, now you're gone.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

That doesn't exist anymore because like the rehearsal on the fly, I mean But you know what the funny part is is on most movies they do assembly now, and so those they'll shoot, they shoot their day, and then the assembly is the editor trying to put it together, you know, the cut together. But the editor takes the first take. He's just because he's not going through for the assembly, he's like, This is the idea, we're on the right track, you know. This isn't the the show, but this on the right track. So that first take. He's not looking at circled takes by the scripty that was good. No, yeah, no. So the execs get on their phone and they see the take and they're like, What the fuck? What's going on here? What's happening here? And I just had this conversation on the last show, and like the director and DP literally pulled us aside and said, We want to we want to roll on rehearsals. And I had to explain to him, I said, Look, I'm okay with that, but you have to understand it's not gonna be good. The first one's not gonna be good. And his words were there might be some magic in there. And I'm just like, but also, you know what's funny is I only this years ago. On a job, I was on a job, and it was digital, and it was a B camera guy, and he did he did a tough, tough, tough take, tough pullback on a on a crane shot. And the director said, How was it? And the operator goes, uh, we should do one more. We got about 70%. And the director went, That's great, we got it. And I'm sitting there going, 70%. I was like, that's you don't even know where the 70% is good. You're just guessing, and and we just got to appointment. Sorry, I it's not the right word to say, but I feel like no one cares. I'm like, you are spending this whole day, you know, yeah, for this one little scene. This is my only time to shine. I love my job. I love being a first AC, I love it. I love you. Like, what do we do when we know a shot, a tough shot that we know is tough, you know, wide open, you know, 200 mil, then walking at you. We hit like, yeah, you know, you're back there celebrating and dancing, and then we move on. Only time, and we talk about all the time, only time you hear a first AC's name is when what? It's not a good time. Soft soft. And I'm like, dude, how about a high five for the one I got? You know, like you're never gonna hear that.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

No one no one appreciates, so I'm just kind of like, all right, so you know, it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

It is a thankless job. It's it's a very thankless job with uh many pitfalls, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Larry Fung has a sticker going around that says if you roll rehearsal, it's not rehearsal. And right for Larry to do it, I was like, thank you. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Also, one of my mentors, Larry, was one of my mentors coming up because he did a lot of great things. But I had a I remember one time I worked on a Larry Fong job as a as a loader, it was a commercial, and I showed up and they were like, All we have is two two cans of film. Load the load the first one, don't load the second one. And we all we loaded was one roll of film, and that's all it was. And I remember the whole time I was like no, they were like 500 footers. And I'm like, Are you sure? He's like, Yep. And I'm like, damn, we just rolled one roll of film, one Mac. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Do you remember the days of when I think you were paid hourly? They give you a box of film and then production would hide the other. Oh, that was the worst. You had to go bank. Yeah, the DP needs more film. Why?

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Like, what do you ask them? Like, I'm I just need to do my job, you know, like you want to put film in there.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

And my my answer was, I promise I won't load it. Just can I please have all please let me have all the film so it's I'm not the only lover here. Like, I promise I won't load it.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

So in your in your time uh in your career, uh load, second, first, operator, uh uh sometimes DP, what was your hardest jump?

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Hmm. My hardest jump, so loaded, second, first. From first ink, I started shooting. Um, I started shooting during the era of the red one, and that's when everybody was buying reds. And one of the reasons I stopped shooting is because productions would hit me up and they'd say, Well, do you own a camera? And I say, No, and they'd pass it off to the next shop. Um, then went back to first ink. Then because I I left the world and I wanted to do features. So then I that's when I started first singing with Shane a lot. Um, and we do movies, and I realized I was like, the movie life is it's tough. It's tough on your family, it's tough, it's just tough all around. It's tough on your relationship, kids, everything. You're just gone. We're traveling all the time. And then I went, um, then I said I wanted to operate. And I was like, you know what? I'm like, I just there's going through that whole thing of everything we talked about, rolling and rehearsals. I was like, you know what? Uh I'm a great operator. I I this is all I need to do. Give me a pen, give me what like I'll make a beautiful frame. You know, no one gets upset at that. And I started labeling myself on Instagram as an operator. And uh my hardest jump was once the operating jobs weren't happening, was going back to firsting. Oh was my hardest jump because people were everyone was like, Oh, you're an operator now. And I was like, No, no, no, no, I I I still first. Uh I'm really and so I stopped, I actually stopped posting my operating and my DP jobs because I didn't want to be categorized as anything, you know. If I just post and I don't say hashtag whatever. So for me, it was going back to first thing because even when I operated, I was like, I always wanted to touch the camera. That was my, you know, when you operate, you're supposed to go, hey, can you move this? And my first thing, I'm like doing things, and I work with first and they'll be like, please don't touch the camera, you know, especially on features or TV shows, you know, that I was just like, like, this is weird. I was like, I get it, okay, you know, because I'm the same way when I'm the first. I don't want the operator moving things or doing whatever. Um, but yeah, I jumped back down to the first thing. I still operate today, I still shoot not as much anymore. Uh that love isn't there to shoot because I feel like I feel like every job and even the jobs, well, the jobs that I was doing, I always felt like I was asking for favors. You know, I always felt like I was like, hey, got this job. Can we get your truck for $500? You know, I always felt like that guy, you know, calling the camera houses, using my connections. Hey, I got a job, you know, yeah, $5,000. You know, I was just like, this isn't fun. I'm not having fun. I'm on these jobs and I'm not stressed out because of the job. I'm stressed out because of what I'm doing to my relationships, you know. Business end of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Yeah, you know, and like you hire one person, and you're what are the first words you hear when you go on a small job? Like, got a small job, but our next one, you know, and I was just like, I don't know. Dangling the carrot in front of you. I didn't want to, I don't want to be that guy. And you know, then I got back into firsting, and me and Shane started doing more things, and I realized I was like, you know what? I'm a great teacher. Like, I'll go ahead and first all these years and teach these guys how hey, you guys want me to operate? Sure, I'll go operate. I DP, I shoot for two directors, and that's it. And I get calls now, and they're like, hey, why don't you shoot this thing? And I'm what is it? You know, and they can hear it in my voice. I'm not excited. And I also I was also uh being a straight LA kid, I I'm not good at BSing people. Like, I'm not good at saying this looks great. You know, I still believe that what you like, I might not like. But if I say that your project was garbage, you're not gonna want to hire me on the next one.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

So I gotta sit there and go, oh, yeah, so yeah, that was awesome what you did. You know, reassuring egos, yeah, of their greatness.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Pass, pass, pass. And and what's we're to the point today is a lot of you can't tell people, you can't tell DPs and operators that you're moving up because then they don't want to hire you anymore. You know, I went through that big. I was like, I told some DPs, I was like, hey, I'm starting to shoot a little all excited and like I'm starting to shoot a little bit. And I had one DP told me, he's like, You want to be a DP? Yeah, go be a DP. Never hire me again. And I was just like, huh?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:01

Oh, I thought we were friends, we worked together for 10 business.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

All right. It's a business.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:09

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

I'll go, I'll go do me, you know, and I'll go jump in. So I turned into the straight just commercial kid. I was like, features are too long. Commercial, you get out, you're there for two, three days, you make great money, and I'm home with my family.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:27

I'm hanging out with my dog at the park.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Oh, that's for sure. My last job. My last, I just I just got off a four-week feature. My discount was 97%. Oh my god, that's a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:41

But yeah, that you know that's funny math right there. That's speaking of uh discounts. Well, uh, what's what are some of your favorite rental houses in LA? Because I I see you a lot at Camtech.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

I I am a true Cam Tech kid. Um the relationship You have your own little parking spot at Camtech. Yeah, that was the camera house.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

That was that's true. They did that for everyone. Um I enjoy Camtech because of the people there. The gear works, you know. I'm not worried about the gear. They but they still try to build a relationship with you. Their prep techs are on point. You see the prep techs there, and you know, and it's important as an assistant to be friendly.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:34

You have that is your relationship, is at the houses.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

So some people just don't get it, and they think they're like above the rental house, and they come in with an ego and attitude, and you're like, no, though these are the people you have to be friendly to. Like they're there, we're all there, you know, but we're also representing that camera company's name. So it has to work onset.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

And back to your point of what you were talking about earlier through my checklist, when you have a camera house that's getting you all your gear quickly, and I'm not waiting for gear, that speeds up my prep. It's half your checklist. It's half my checklist. Hey, I need this, and it comes in three minutes over me waiting and half an hour for it. So you know, I'm not gonna say what camera house I was at yesterday, but I literally waited 45 minutes for the head came out without a quick release and the sliding base plate.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

I sat on the floor building my camera, and uh and I kept looking and I was like, hey, can I get you know I'll say the rental house I'll say the rental house? I was at Airy, Airy Rentals of all places. Like they did that to me. Like, how do you give a camera with the head with no base plate? Like, Aerie. You know, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

But it also, I'm a little tainted because at Penavision, you prepped the gear before you gave it. The AC. You didn't give the AC, you know, here's your coffee, here's milk, but no spoon to spill it, you know, to stir it with. Like we would have to give them the full package. And it was a thing. I remember you've probably seen it at Panavision. They had, I know you have the podium is there, and then they have this huge, it's like four by four L that goes out. And it was to test the Lambda heads. And at Panavision, they'd see the Lambda head on the floor, and you do your whole prep. And if that thing didn't come out, Dominic would call you out. He'd be like, hey, did you prep your lambda head? And you'd be like, you'd be like, I know you didn't because I didn't see because it was a headache to bring this thing out and put it up and do the whole thing, you know, and put the lambda together. And oh, don't please don't have three access to where I have to build out the whole three access and balance it on the camera. And you know, so our heart is the prep, you know. That's the that's where we build where we're going.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

And the more that they do for us, the less we have to do in a sense. I was gonna say, like, I at least when I was at Panavision, the one thing I learned was like after doing multiple preps, is like give backup cables. That's you you give backup cables, long cables for everything. So when they get there, they don't gotta worry about that. I mean, put even as simple as easy putting the touch and go, you know, on the bottom of the base plate. So you don't even have to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

And put the camera on. And as an assistant, you have to go through everything because the backup cable that you might have prepped might be a four-pin instead of a three-pin, or the touch and go plate might not actually be very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

You know, like you have to go through everything. You have to go through everything. But like you said, if the prep tech's taking his time to go out of his way, he's gonna help you. You're gonna remember his name. He or her, you know, you're gonna remember his name, and it makes your prep a lot better to get in and out. Oh, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Those are the first people you're gonna call when you need somebody, you know, like, hey, this kid, he he was on his job. Yeah, he he knew his job. And I I can countless days of being in Panavision, Panavision, I don't know if Woodland Hills had it, but they had these boxes that you could plug your B and C's into, and a little light would come on if they worked. And you'd just be back there, you know, for like 20 minutes. But that 20 minutes, now I'm not running around looking for B and C when my AC is here. And you know, my ACs would come in. My goal was to have them come in and go, I don't have to prep this because I knew you did it and I trusted you. And that made me feel that was like, I felt great. I can't talk more about Dom, but man, I used to walk around with my, you know, he'd have his pocket hanging out, and I'd just be holding on to, you know, just like, what are you doing next? You know, and just to build that action.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

You know what's crazy is that I hadn't seen Dom in a while. And a couple of years ago I saw him at Cine Gear and he's working for small HD now. I don't know if he still is, but yeah, it was so good to see him. And every time I see him, it's never like Is it small?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

Is it small small HD or uh something rigs?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:23

He can email us.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Yeah, yeah. And I I saw him and it was he it was great because like he never forgets you. No, you know, and it was just like I had a good time with him at Panavision. He was always willing to help when I couldn't figure things out, and he was just he was a good dude, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

And I, you know, do you know me and him used to wrestle? You know, as big as he is, me and me and Dom used to wrestle. Like that VR thing, we like handshake and then like we try to like and I don't know if you know like he's huge and he'd always like hit me up and hold me up.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

I know, yeah. I remember when he went out to to you know, he tried to be Superman. Yeah, you remember? Looks just like Superman. Yeah, it's just uh clear. Yeah, yeah. So all right.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:07

So uh real quick as we wind down, we've got a few more minutes. Um the tech of tomorrow, how do you see it helping or hurting the crew?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

Whew, when you say the tech, when he AI AI. Um, you know what? When, and this is just a quick little backstory, when digital came out, I fought it. Like when those first jobs were coming, I was like, I'm not, I'm not doing cheese red job. I I I fought it hard. I didn't want it to happen, I didn't want it to be a thing. You wouldn't think that. Yeah, I was I was battling it big time. That taught me to just open up and accept all the tools that are out there. We can't fight them. We're not gonna fight them, we're not gonna win the fight. No, it's an uphill battle, you know. So if if the tech helps us, sorry to say, use it. There's a ton of movies out right now that are already admitting, they're like, yeah, we use some AI to do this, we use some AI to do that. You know, or during COVID, I went back to my photography days and I took bad pictures, and I was like, I'm gonna learn Lightroom to a T. Because Lightroom wasn't a thing for me, dude. I was in a lab like watching and doing these things. I was like, I'm gonna learn Lightroom. And I learned there's there's no bad photos. Any bad photo you take, you can tweak it. You can tweak it and you can make it artistic. So I think the tech is it's gonna drive some people, it's gonna drive some people crazy. It's a tool. We have a ton of tools. Look at look at like what we're doing today. And you're you look to me, you're like, the tech, look at we're recording sound on mics this big, plugged into our phone.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

It's don't give away our our secrets. Secrets, our phones are big.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

Yeah, no, no, no. But yeah, the I mean, I don't love it. I don't think it's gonna help our movie making. I follow, I follow an AI uh website that talks about movies and stuff like that. And some of the movies I've seen them do promos for, like, you know, like Transformers and stuff like that. It looks amazing. It looks, it looks brilliant. It looks better than some of the, you know, some of the green screen stuff that we're doing today, because I feel like what do we hear all the time? Oh, we'll fix it in posts. You know, I I did a I did a TV show, and they kept, they kept saying, We're gonna get money, we're gonna get money to make this monster look awesome. We're gonna get money to make it look amazing, we're gonna get all this money. I think the show was related, was somehow connected to Stranger Things, and they're like, Yeah, Stranger Things is gonna help us out with all these things. And when it was time, like they poop the bed, they look bad. And I'm like, So do we do we fight it? Do we hold on to it to make things better?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:03

Okay, how about this question? As a teacher, um, where where do you see the business for a younger person yearning like yourself? But if you were 30 years ago today moving into the film business, how do you guide somebody?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Would you do what you did originally and start at Panavision? Or I don't the rental houses aren't doing it anymore. Today, it's just another door that I think they gotta figure out how to open. I don't know how to open that door. My answer has been if I was doing it today, my route would be to join the union as a digital utility because they can join for free. Um, once you're in the union, now you can start doing union jobs to get bigger. But I don't like who do you who do you learn under? You know, people call me all the time, they're like, hey, I'm looking to get on a cruise, something like this, you know. And unfortunately, we're in the era to where there's not a ton of jobs. And I mean, you probably both have tons of people on your phone hitting you up going, hey, I'm available, hey, I'm available. So how do how do I bring in someone new to the fold when I have 10 friends under me who are hurting? You know, not saying that ain't everyone else isn't hurting, but you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:28

No, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:29

So and they got rid of the camera PA position. You know, I I don't know. I don't know how they I'm clueless of how they get in today and what they do, or or will they have a career like we've had 20, 30 years in the business. I don't that's that's a catch 22 for us because we got flooded with a ton of people, you know, especially like when Atlanta opened up, like when Atlanta just opened the doors and they're like, just pay and we'll get you in, yeah, we'll get you in. Unfortunately, those people aren't working as much now, and it sucks that people are, you know, I've seen posts all the time, like five five years in the industry and I have to leave. And it's like, well, what did you do in five years? Your first day, your first AC in five years? All right. Well, for me, I don't I don't think you took the right path to do that. But also, how do you learn? Who do you taught in here? Who's gonna teach you, you know, where you're gonna get your experience from? You know, like you've done movies, you've done TV, you've done live music, you I mean, both of you have. You know, when you have to figure out certain things on car rigs, and you know, that's one of my favorite things is car rigs. But when you have to figure these things out, if you've never done it before or never seen it, how do you call yourself a first? Because when you get put on that set, you're just gonna, you're gonna fail. You know, and and not that like we're going, we went through this the BIPOC error and all these things of just hiring people. I was on I was on a big job, and the producer told me they said, We want to have we want to have a BIPOC person. I was like, I didn't know what that was. And once they explained it to me, their answer to me was they went to their Instagram and they were coming to me going, How about this person? And she did it three times, and the third time I looked at her, I said, Everybody's Instagram is great. Everybody's Instagram shows like they're they're experienced. And then when we got the person in, they failed the whole time. And I was like, now this person's gonna look bad in our eyes because they want experience for the job. I'm not gonna want to hire this person because they could should have come on set without the experience, but how do you get experience if you I don't know?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

No, that's a conundrum. Yeah, no, it is. I mean, it is something very well said, actually. This is you know, this is the world we're living in. Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

You know my last thing, you know, you know what the funny thing is is on the whole BIPOC thing when I was searching it, they wanted me to hire they wanted me to hire a female African American uh second AC. If you go into our union book, you know how many female African-American ACs there is two one's in Vegas and one just moved up to be an operator. So there's an opening.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:44

Yeah, we're just I don't I don't know, dude. We're we're beating ourselves into a weird hole where I think guys like us, we're gonna work because I mean you have your hands in 20 pockets, you have your hands in twist. I have my hand like a lot of people know as far experience.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:00

Well, we we we didn't even get a chance to talk about some of your OGs, you know, some of your guys from Panavision and all those fun stories. There must be tons of stories, but we can't get into it now. Should we can get into two things?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

Go ahead. Well, one of them I think he already okay. All right, we're gonna start off with our two questions. What's your favorite word on set?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

All right, I it used to be call sheets, which we um they don't say call sheets anymore. I don't I don't think I I don't think I have a you have to you cover a favorite set word? Um could be anything. Probably mark. Okay. Mark, because all my all my second ACs are really I tell them to be creative when they hit the the sticks, you know. Like marker, like has have some character when you do it. A little swag. Yeah, yeah. I have one second AC, I call him Velvet Sticks because he's really like he's mark like really really maybe it's mark. Uh that marker.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:05

Marker, yeah. I when I was when just bumping up to second, I used to say and mark, you know, and uh the first AC, I won't mention his name, but he was a tough one. Uh a great one, but tough. He brought me over like, stop saying that. Sounds like you're saying N Mark. And I'm like, N Mark? I was I didn't even know what that meant. You know, like N Mark. Okay, uh least favorite word, sir, which we might have or might have already you could add it, change it of it. Shh, Grace, bro. Oh, Grace.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

Uh I hate I hate her and Grace because uh which most camera people don't realize, we're not the keys of our department. The DP is, so they don't even come over to us and they don't have to come over to us and stand and say anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:50

As our good friend Langston used to say, our my girlfriend's coming. Girlfriend's showing up. He's Grace.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

Again, four days in a row. Cold chicken? Come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

But I will call Grace after lunch if I'm not ready to call back. Yeah, come back. I go, Grace, go to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:10

Well, Derek Edwards, it's been great having you. Uh thank you very much for coming down. You know, we'll see you. I'm a little sweaty. We'll see you next time on the set. Yeah. And uh, you know, your knowledge is is excellent for this type of uh podcast. We just want to like you say, teach other people the right way. Yeah, and with the stories and the positivity and the experience that you bring.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:31

The greatest shows in the world. We make entertainment.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:34

We do, yeah. Yeah, so we're gonna this is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

Look at this this entertainment, like this is uh we have the greatest shops in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:41

The same learning experience. Thank you. You know, you let you let everybody know what we do.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

Well, come on back. Good times, you know, good times the free throw podcast. There you go, Derek. Derek Edwards, everybody. Thank you, sir. Cheers, guys, appreciate your ass. Thank you, thank you, sir. Thank you very much.