Real Talk on Pregnancy, Birth, and Being a Mom

Sisters on this Episode: Erin, Megan & Cat

Cat has some exciting news that's going to make our family a little bit bigger. She comes in with every burning question a first-time mom has, and Erin and Megan keep it completely real. Delivery stories, postpartum depression, losing yourself a little and finding your way back — no glossing over the hard parts, but plenty of the things that actually help and the moments that remind you why it's all worth it. With six kids under eight between them, they have a lot to say and hold nothing back: the joy, the overwhelm, and everything you wish someone had told you going in.

Plus all the things we're trying, buying and loving this week. Find them here

Books Recs: 

• The Deal (Off-Campus Book 1)
• Expecting Better by Emily Oster
• Mom's on Call 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey gals. Hey. How are we doing? It's great. It's lovely. To be fully transparent, everyone, we just spent 30 minutes working through technical issues. So we're here and we're we're happy.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

I thought one of my kids needed stitches. So what yeah, what was that? I put them all to bed, and Hud and Jack slept in a bed together, and then they were building a tent and knocked over a light, and then Bell came in and Hud was crying, and I thought that he severed his hand on the light, but he didn't. He was just being dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Good lord. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

HUD is just so special. Hard times out there.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

So brutal. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Did you guys see the trailer yet for the off-campus series? Oh my god, I just watched it.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Do you see the full trailer with all the additional stuff in it?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

I think Emma sent it in Spanish to the clip she sent to like our sister group text. I think it was in Spanish. I was like having trouble.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

You're like, what is happening? I have to text. Why does everybody look like it's the 80s? It's the hair, the makeup, the jackets, the clothing, everything. It looks like it's the 80s. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, what I remember from hockey bros is that they had filthy flows like that are kind of straight, but it's like it's pretty hot.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

And he's got a nice voice. And so in some of the shots, I thought he looked really hot, but in other shots, I was confused.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I think by far Garrett is the most attractive out of all. He's definitely attractive. He's objectively hot. If you look at his actor screenshot, he's hot. I don't know the other two personally just yet because I haven't read the books. I know them all personally.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

And I can tell you that they did them dirty. And they, you know who they did the dirtiest? Dean.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Dean.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

They did him dirty.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

I was like, I'm missing something here.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

For everyone wondering, this is the L. Kennedy series that starts with the deal and it's about the hockey players. The trope is it's a four-book series.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

It's a four-book series that is being turned into an Amazon Prime show that airs on May 13th. We are not sponsored by the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Soon to be huge fans of the books. Aaron just has an unhealthy smut problem.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Unhealthy. I actually never thought I'd like that trope, but I once I got into the deal, I was like staying up till two an hour.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

It's about their children, and you can never put the books down. But I think we have a lot to look forward to. I just heard today, TL Swan, her book series, Smile High Club, is being turned is turned being turned into a show. So anyway, this news was shared with me today by Nora, who also loves Smut. And I said to her, I was like, this is the most exciting thing that's happened to me all year hearing this news. And she was like, even more exciting than figuring out your sister is

Cat's Big News

SPEAKER_02 2:54

pregnant. And I was like, good point. Nothing's more exciting than that. I know. So exciting.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Are you having a girl? I honestly screamed bloody murder because I was so excited that you're having a girl because I just can't wait to nestle her and hold her in a carrier. There's something about so scrumptious girls.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Like I love Bella is crazy, but I just look at her and I want to squeeze her because she's so cute. She's so squeezable. And it's just, it's in a way that like the boys were cute too. But if there's something about a little girl that you're just like, oh, she's your girly.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

You never thought you were gonna get a girly and you got a girly. Although I will say, after James being like demonic when I got home from work to bedtime, he's will you snuggle me for one minute? And I like got in bed with him, and he put his head on the crook of my arm and then went and wrapped his little hand around my fingers and was like, I love you, mom. And I was like, I wanted to take a picture. I wanted to take a picture because I was like, This isn't gonna last for very long. Boys don't really snuggle. Oh, my boys snuggle big time.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

They're big. They I think they snuggle.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Jack is I feel like Jack is super sentimental. How do he sometimes doesn't like to be touched?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah, but he has to snuggle, but it has to be on his own terms. It's funny, like tonight when before bed, Jack was like, Mom, can I put on some show on TV? And I was like, uh, okay, fine, whatever. And it's like this show that basically is classical music with these like really sweet cartoons. And he it was like a really sweet little thing. And geez, I love this music, it's it feels like Christmas. I'm like, he's doing that. Meanwhile, Belle, her favorite thing lately is to take the jar of the tiny 3,000 tiny rubber bands and dump it out. She did it last night, tonight she did it.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

And it's I'm like, how can you be so sweet and you be such a demon? Like, I'm so excited. I really didn't, I don't know why. I think I I had no idea what it was gonna be either way, but I think because I was like, Oh, I'm kind of gunning for a girl, it's not gonna be a girl. Yeah, and so when Claire baked the cupcakes and we did a little reveal, I was genuinely shocked. And I think because you guys have boys, I was like, oh, maybe.

unknown 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Are you nervous at all? Or you were just I'm ready to have a kid.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

No, someone actually asked me that the other day when my friend, when I told her, and she was like, How did you know you were ready? And I was like, Well, I've always like loved babies and kids, and I like knew I wanted to have a kid soon. But I was like, I think the moment I knew I was genuinely ready is when my friends would start to tell me they were pregnant, or they would bring their babies around and I would get jealous. Yeah, obviously I'd be happy for them, but internally you're like, I want that. Yeah, I was like, I want that. I'm like, I really want that now. So I think that's when I knew I was ready. But no, it's made me now think of all the questions that I have. And I feel like, which is shocking to me because, like, when I found out I was pregnant, or when I talked to my friends about pregnancy, the first thing that comes to my mind outside of raising a child is what actually goes down in the delivery room. Because I feel like despite having sisters and you guys having been through it, I feel like I like asked you guys those questions, but I never really got the like full nitty-gritty that I wanted to get. And I feel based on some of my friends that have had

What Goes Down In The Delivery Room

SPEAKER_01 6:24

children, a lot of them have said that you go in blind and it feels very hard to know what to be ready for. So I guess what is your guys' take on how you prepped for labor and delivery before.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Or is there a way? Before we get into that, do you guys remember when James was born and big and Jimmy ac sent the birth picture to the family chat? Oh, I thought I was like, Oh my god, how and Toby looked down, he was like, Oh my god, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Can I say what happened? I literally had delivered the baby, it was zero minutes and seven seconds. James takes a picture, the baby just came out of my vagina. The umbilical cord is still attached. James takes a picture, sends it to the family chat without looking at the picture first, thinking it's above.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

My full is the live, yes, it was the live, but it was the live that exposed it.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah, full of vagine.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Full vagine. I was like, oh my god, like I forgot an umbilical cord comes out of you and is still connected to the honestly. I was disturbed. I was like, I didn't want to see that. Like oh, I guess, yeah, because did you guys did you have a mirror up? Were you watching when uh and any of your me?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

I both of you. Oh my god. The third I definitely did, but my uh You got a mirror? Yeah, because it's just like it was very Courtney Kardashian.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Megan Megan was like an earth mother, like burning was like easy for her. I hope you get her jeans. Dr.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Jin was like, Dr. Jin goes, do you want to pull out the baby? And she offered me to pull him out, and I was like, No.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Didn't she tell you? She was like, it's just like yoga. Push three more times.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

No, she's it's just like yoga, easy peasy. You barely broke a sweat.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Okay. See, that would trigger me, I think.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

I'd be like, okay. It honestly vibe. Okay, let me answer your question very quickly on the labor and delivery. One, it's very different depending upon the type of birth you have. I would say the thing that surprised me most about labor and delivery are two things. One, there's a lot of downtime. I literally watched like three movies waiting to have Georgie because you're just sitting there for so long.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

And that's even after you've like gone into labor.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

I've gone into labor, but you're the labor process has started. The labor process has started, but you're waiting for the contractions, you're waiting to become dilated to a certain point. Okay, right. Two some people can have a really bad reaction to an epidural. I had a horrible reaction to the epidural.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Or what was your reaction?

SPEAKER_00 8:55

It's like I have a lot of nerve endings in my spine, so it was like someone was stabbing me in the spine with a sword.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Okay, cool. No, I didn't have that. Super terrible.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

So those are my two takes. But then after that, I was like, this is a piece of cake. I literally pushed on all like even for my first, I pushed for like maybe 10 minutes, and then I was done.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

I think the thing is like all these people that are like, I'm gonna make a soundtrack and then I'm gonna have this bag that I pack all these special things in. I think that is kind of are we jaded?

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Are we jaded? Um I don't think you might be jaded because I was gonna do both of those things.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

I mean, I'm not passing judgment. I'm just saying I think you're just convinced because you have not yet had children and you feel like you at this point you have some semblance of control over your life. But once you become a parent, that quickly dissipates. And it starts with labor. And I think that it's great to do all those things again. Feel prepared because I think that mentally that will just help you. But the minute you get into that room, you have no clue how it's gonna go down, and that is what you have to be comfortable with. Be comfortable with relinquishing control because you will have none. And it could go a completely different way than you thought. I thought I would go, I'm like, I have child bearing hips. This should be like easy for me. It also turns out that I have giant children, and so I had to have c-sections for all my deliveries. And it was the first one I was a little bit bummed because I totally felt cheated of the whole process. But the drama of what Megan experienced, I experienced it a little bit with Jack because it was an emergency C-section. The other ones, it's like they wheel you in, and 20 minutes later, you're like on an operating table, and 20 minutes after that, you have a baby. And I remember being open, cut open on the operating table. My OB was like talking to the attending doctor that was assisting her about like how her next career she wants to get into interior design and all this stuff, just casually. Like, nobody's like it's another Tuesday. It's another Tuesday, and she's amazing. I have I don't blame her, but it's just wild how something so intense could be so normalized.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

The one thing I will say, the one thing I wish I researched more the first time that I actually did research the second and third time, were like birthing positions, which I never looked into, or how your partner can help relieve pain in terms of where they push on your back and how you properly use a peanut or exercise ball. I looked at none of that, and then I actually used it for the second and third, and I felt like it made a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah, my friend who just had a baby, I went and visited her in the hospital, and she said that exact same thing that I think her husband like watched some of the videos, but he was like, I wished I had watched them more intently because having the direction of where exactly to push on the back to relieve the pain is a major game changer and just like another way for your partner to be there and be supportive.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

But yeah, like there's but there's like a lot of little things in between when you don't know what type of delivery you're going to have until you get there, unless your doctor tells you before you're going to have a C-section for some medical reason.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

So you won't so here's here's my question though. How do you find the balance between relinquishing control but also feeling properly prepared so that you can feel like you can advocate for yourself when you're in the hospital room?

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Because I guess the job of your spouse, your spouse, and you need to also put some trust in your doctor too. And I think in terms of advocating for yourself, if you don't feel good, you need to make sure that you definitely vocalize that, I would say. Because I think there have been instances where something serious happens with the mom that is overlooked because the focus is on the baby. You know what I mean? That minute that baby is born, it's really it's a little bit about you, but it's really all about the baby.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

And I will also say during the labor has started and you're waiting. I remember for me with Georgie, I wasn't very dilated. So they're like, Oh, you're gonna be here for another six hours before anything happens. And I was, I really feel a lot of pressure. And they're like, Nope, you're it's just the natural thing. And I pushed them, I was like, Can someone check me and make sure? A nurse came in, check me. She's oh shit, that's the head. She's don't sneeze, don't just try and she's trying to hold it. I gotta get the doctor. Yeah, they were suiting up to yeah. So it's tell them every little thing that you are feeling, even if you think it's not a big deal. Yeah, okay. Because remember, they're triaging multiple people. The nurses are incredible, they're managing a bunch of different people. Wow. I really give props to the nurses.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

It's a hard job, they're the best, and they do it all. Oh my god, I could never they have the probably the hardest but the coolest job in the world.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

The one thing I think you really should make sure you bring are some very comfortable and fuzzy socks above all else.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Oh, yeah, I've seen people say that the socks.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

I also brought my like fuzzy burks.

Hospital Bag Must Haves

SPEAKER_02 13:57

I I was always in the hospital for five days after all my bursts.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, so that's a good question. If you could put one thing in your hospital bag, what would it be? Erin, yours is the fuzzy socks. Mine would be your own pillow. Hospital pillows like a cough, they do suck. And you're gonna use all the shitty hospital pillows to hold out the baby while you're learning to breastfeed if you choose to breastfeed. And it's nice to have a good pillow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

That brings up a good point. So reversing on the labor and delivery thing, now that I'm in my first trimester. Out of all the trimesters, which is the worst one? And

Worst Trimester

SPEAKER_01 14:35

what are things really?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

The first worst. You guys don't didn't have morning sickness, so you're weird exceptions to the rule, but it is the worst thing ever, and it makes it very hard to be functional. So I did, and it lasted for probably 14 weeks, and I didn't have it nearly as bad as some people. So I would say that I do think generally the first maybe you seem to have a relatively easy first trimester so far. I don't mean to no idea what your body is going to be.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Maybe, maybe you're like me.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

No, I agree. It's the way I've thought about it. If I'm like, because I have some moments where I'm like, don't complain. You're allowed to complain, suck, suck it up, whatever. But I'm like, it's don't complain to other women who have gone through pregnancy. That's like kind of my take. Because like I don't agree.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

I think you're allowed to complain. We understand.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

I think you're allowed to complain, but like my thought process is if I'm talking to another woman who's gone through it, like, for example, like I have a friend who had terrible morning sickness. I feel very lucky for the experience I've had thus far because I haven't had to deal with that. She was out of work for three weeks because she was literally couldn't get out of bed. But when I think about, oh, if I complain to like my husband or a guy who will never know what it's like to go through it, I don't give a shit at all. And I'm like never be able to do this. So I'm like, I'm gonna complain and say my piece because it's like a hard thing. But I just I have a different take when I'm talking to someone who has gone through it and had a tough experience.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Experiencing childbirth confirmed to me that women are the superior race for sure. And I knew this before, but literally growing it a little alien inside of you and pushing them out of your body is truly the most primal, one of the most primal experiences you'll ever have in your life. And you're like, there's no way a man could do this. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but you are fine.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, knock on wood, hopefully. Was there okay, so first trimester because of just like all the symptoms and changes your body is going through.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yes, but I think that it not as much in your first pregnancy because your body, it's it takes a lot longer, I think, for the changes to really go into effect your first pregnancy. It's like I didn't look pregnant with my first until I was six months pregnant. The end felt hard, but it was really only the last few weeks. In later pregnancies, the end gets very hard. You a you your body changes much more quickly, and there's just additional wear and tear on your body. I remember when I was pregnant with Belle, I was very sick in the beginning and then it got better, but then towards the end, it hurt for me to walk. Yeah. I had to do that. And so I'd say if you're feeling good now, I feel like you'll be pretty solid till just the last couple weeks before you give birth. The others at the end gets more difficult.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Lovely. Was there anything extremely surprising for your first pregnancies that you guys went through that you didn't expect?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Like the actual pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, like

Surprising Things About Pregnancy

SPEAKER_01 17:44

being pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

I think just your body's new changing, everything's new. I think everything is a surprise, frankly. I think for me, the feeling sick at the beginning, and then just generally feeling fatigued and then not being able to fit into your pants. And realizing that your boots could get to that size. Oh, I know, totally. Like as a flat-chested woman, you're gonna be like, wow, yeah, oh yeah, it's already happening.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And I'm like, Oh, it fills my hand now. Didn't used to do that before.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, that's then they retract into your body after you have children. That's what boob jobs are for.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

I can't get mine. Gotta get that done. Need to get on it. Truly. Okay, so for anyone that's about to go through their first trimester and be pregnant, is there any advice that you would give looking back on your pregnancies that you wish you did?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I would say this is for both pregnancy and for postpartum. I think it's more relevant for postpartum. The baby is out, the joy is there, and then you feel like dog shit in your body. Or that's how I felt, is reminding yourself that it's all temporary. My bestie Jane used to tell me that all the time, especially in the days where I was very low, just be like, it's temporary. It's temporary. And that sounds so simple, but it really resonates when you feel like this is never gonna end, whether that's during pregnancy or postpartum.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Yeah. I would say that it's funny, I was like randomly decided to go back and look at pictures the other night, right from when Belle was born, probably because it's almost her third birthday. And I came across a video, and Belle is crying in the background. It's like that shrieking infant cry, and Huddy's like literally can't even walk, and Jack is super young. And looking at it made me sad because they were so little and cute, and I can't believe how old they now seem. But I also was like, I don't miss that little baby cry.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Oh, I miss it. Oh, I can't wait. Why not? They sound like little birds.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

You know what it is. There's something about it that was like very triggering for me. Yeah, I feel like you had a hard. With Jack, it was hard, but I think with the other two, it wasn't as difficult. I just was like, I guess what I'm saying is try to enjoy it, but also understand that it's normal to feel very overwhelmed and to feel like it's really hard. Like I said, I it's I feel sad that so much time has passed. And I obviously in the grand scheme of things, my kids are still young, but I would not go back to that time.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

I also think this whole myth of the baby comes out and you immediately feel bonded with it. Yeah, that is not the case for everyone. That was not the case with me for I think most of my kids, that just that immediate, like what they say in the movies, your hormones are everywhere and you just went through

Thoughts on the Conventional Pregnancy Rules

SPEAKER_00 20:29

a crazy experience. It happens over time. I think the moral of all this is do what you need to do to feel prepared going into it. You will not know what's ultimately going to happen, how it goes down, and just trust the process. If you trust your medical team and you trust your husband or whoever you're going in with, you'll be good.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

The one thing I will say I was actually thinking about this in terms of the pregnancy itself. Obviously, I'm not a doctor or an expert on any of these things, but I remember a lot of my friends, especially with the first kids, automatically going off of antidepressants or anxiety medicine that they were on. And then towards the end of our pregnancies, a lot of the doctors started to be like, you should not have gone off of this medicine, maybe for the first trimester, but the net negative of you needing an antidepressant and not being on it while you're pregnant and then postpartum is not great.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

And like the stress that's on you and then the baby.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

A hundred percent. So I would also say that don't just assume that you can't take a medication. You should probably talk to your doctor about it because I think it comes down to it being like a calculated risk.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, that's something that Emily Ausser just did a podcast with Jay Shetty, and I think she brings she brought that exact topic up. She was like, the biggest thing that I see women do without having all the knowledge is going off of antidepressants because they think they have to go off of every medication, and she said it can be so detrimental to have to talk about it with your doctor and then make an educated decision from there. But yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, I think of on the book rec list if you're preparing to have. A baby. I think Emily Oster's expecting better is essential. She goes through all of the medical research around all the common myths surrounding pregnancies, do's and don'ts, like sushi, caffeine, alcohol. And she then presents you with the data and equips you to make a choice around what's right and it gives a better representation versus outdated standards that aren't always based in true fact. And so it's refreshing.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

I just think everything in moderation approach it your own way. Be a moderate thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Do most things outside of the major things that are a no-no, like excessive binge drinking or what smoking cigs.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Don't do that. Not a good idea. Oh shoot. The other thing I was that I was not good about, and I really wish I had been. I was really good about exercising when I was pregnant with Jack. I was not good about it with HUD and Bell at all. And if I'm not good, I'd work out maybe once a week. Pretty infrequent. And I think just moving your body, like going for a walk, it just helps. I think not only the pregnancy, but after the fact. And I don't mean in terms of getting skinny after you have a kid. I just mean in terms of managing damage in terms of what it does to your body. Also the pelvic floor stuff. I literally have a three-finger gap, sorry, between my abdominal muscles.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

But you have abs.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

But like nothing will fix it but surgery.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

But it's, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

So I think about the pelvic floor stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

No, like I've already I already know that I'm gonna do those Megan Roop post pre-postnatal videos where she does like the breathing. It helps you with like your pelvic floor and stuff, and like all the stretching you're supposed to do before birth to prepare your body to go through it. And I feel like I've been like working out pretty normally, but I feel like Megan, I was talking about this with you at one point. I think like a really real concern, especially these days, and maybe I'm not definitely not alone in thinking this, but it's just like the impacts that pregnancy will have on your body. And for me, who's going from like I got married in June. I was probably tried to be the fittest that I've ever been and felt the best with my body to now going through a process

Body Image & Postpartum Recovery

SPEAKER_01 24:18

where I'm starting to not fit into my pants and I'm a little uncomfortable. I'm nervous for that aftermath because I can already tell it's gonna be very mentally taxing. Let me tell you a tale.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Oh God, you should use this opportunity to get comfortable with all the changes that are gonna happen with your body, not just when you fit are having kids and you finish having kids, but then about three years after that, when you're about 38 or 39 years old, all the hormonal changes are gonna start to happen and your body's gonna change again, and it's gonna feel challenging to be comfortable in your own skin. So it's just series and not stop. And the only thing I will say to you is that there's a way to manage it. There are things out there in the world that that didn't exist when we started, or they did, but they were not well known. GLP1s, for example, you won't need that kind of thing. But and honestly, I will say, I do think like the baby weight will come off. And I remember being so consumed with that with Jack, and then with HUD, it just it just happened. So I wouldn't harp on it. Like you're gonna feel uncomfortable in your body probably for four months after you have a kid, then you'll start to feel a little bit better. And to Megan's point, just remember that it's all temporary, but like I don't know what else to say aside from buckle up because I was trying to set your expectations.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

And this is why I've timed my therapy because I'm like, I'm gonna need a mental outlet that's established well before I have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Well, the the other thing I will say too that has been very hard for me, if I'm being honest, is after I had Jack, I felt like I looked I was 32. I like bounced back relatively quick. How'd I bounce back fast, whatever? Then I had Belle and I felt okay, but then again, I like turned 38 a year later, and I just felt like my body was starting to change. And with Belle, there are like I have a like a vein on my leg, which sounds so ridiculous, but like a varicose vein on the front of my left leg. It drives me crazy. No amount of fitness is gonna fix that. That's surgery. I have crepey skin on my stomach now. I didn't have creepy skin, stretched skin. Stretched skin. Oh oh it's not cute. And again, no, the only thing that fixes that is surgery. So I just think the concerns changed between the first pregnancy and the later pregnancies.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah. I will say it's impossible to avoid it unless you're one of those super blessed people that bounces back really quickly. I remember Aaron and I had each of our third six months apart, but Aaron had Belle and was in a bikini three months later. You were, I remember. Okay. Oh I had Charlie, and I think it took me a year to I my bounce back was there was none. And it felt like shit.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

But I also think because you had a bunch of babies in quick succession. Yeah, three times. Your body did not get to recover.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, I had a little that is actually so insane when you say it out loud. And I don't think I knew that until you said that. I thought it was like three kids in five years.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

It was actually I I actually checked it. It's it was three kids in 3.3 years. That is insane. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but I'm glad I did it that way. In terms of one recommendation to help you get through the postpartum phase and feeling like shit in your body. For the first pregnancy I was or postpartum, I was like, I'm not buying any new clothes. I'm just gonna try and fit into my old clothes, blah, blah, blah. I think it is very key to find two to three pieces that you buy net new for the size that you are for the next few months that make you feel good, a blazer, whatever it is. So you can throw that on and you can not feel like dog shit every time you walk out the door because the mental toll the negative self-talk can have on you is a lot. And so I think it's important to have things that make you feel like yourself as much as you can.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, I definitely think I had these goals where I was like, when I when I lose the weight or when I get back to myself, that's when I'll buy myself something nice until then I'm just gonna wear sweats. And again, I have the luxury of working from home and stuff like that. Like you're going into an office by the time you go back to work, you're probably, I hate to tell you, not gonna feel like a hundred percent. So I agree, you do have to in invest in yourself and just try to whatever. This is like pot calling the kettle black. Try to be kind to yourself, it's hard, but you gotta just give yourself time.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

I think I'm gonna have to delete Instagram or something because I think that's what makes it even harder now, is that like scrolling online and just seeing like women with uh insane, ridiculous, unattainable bodies, and then like probably being in like the worst state you've been in.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

You're just in such a bubble, it comes in waves.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

I mean, it's also just remind yourself what your body is. What you just did, what you just did, and I think the big thing is like manage the physical stuff such that, like I said, you're exercising, you're eating food that makes you feel good, all those types of things. And then I think the real thing you have to focus on is like making sure your mind is right and really doing the work to feel good on the mental front because like you've got all of these hormones that are impacting the way you're feeling. Then you're so overwhelmed because like you're about to go through the biggest change of your life, and then you also have to contend with the fact that like you might have a baby and deal with like postpartum depression or anxiety or anxiety, like varying levels of it. And I think just having the foresight to prepare for that is important because I was totally blindsided by it and blindsided by postpartum depression. Oh, like I just was not other people had to tell me. My doctors had to be like, Are you okay? It's funny, it happened in different degrees with each kid, but it's almost like you felt you experienced it with each kid? No, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

I was very severe with Jack, but it probably How did you know you had it? What was the signal that told you something was wrong?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

I didn't, I didn't know I had it. But think about it like when I had Jack, there were lots of circumstances in my life that were making me feel very overwhelmed. We I had just left New York, I had moved to Boston. It's not something I had wanted to do. I had was having my first kid and I was launching a business a month later. So it's like I didn't get maternity leave. I was dealing with taking care of a baby, but also building a business, like which are two things where the stakes are really high and it feels really hard and it was totally foreign. And I think there were just like life circumstances at play that made me feel incredibly overwhelmed. I wanted to crawl out of my skin and I didn't know why, because there were so many net new things that were happening in my life. And it took me going to this awesome nurse practitioner who I saw who was essentially functioned as my primary care doctor, who was like, they make you take all these questionnaires. And I made it for the through the first few, but probably four months after having Jack, she was like, Your postpartum is so bad, and we need to medicate you immediately. Like, how are you surviving right now? And it was so nice because she didn't judge me. She wasn't like, I'm gonna go put you in a padded room, but she was like, How are you okay? Yeah, and I I just thought something was wrong with me. I was like, Why am I not happy? I have this baby, he's he was such a good baby. What is wrong? And I think that when you're in it, it's very difficult to see it. And with HUD, I didn't have it at all. And then with Belle, I remember, I was obviously aware of it because I had already dealt with it, but I remember going to my two-week checkup and my OB, who was amazing, I did the survey and I didn't answer it honestly, but I thought I was totally fine. She's like, So I just looked at your survey. She's are you good? And I was like, I think I'm good. Again, I didn't really take maternity leave ever with any of my kids. So I was like, I think I'm just juggling a lot. I just moved into the new house and I've this is I've got three little kids, whatever. She's like, No, we need to put you on meds. And so I think you just have to almost overreact about it and make sure that you flag this stuff because yeah, it's not like anything crazy would have happened. It was very mild for me relative to what other people go through, but I was miserable and it was so unnecessary. And I think it put I don't want to say negative, but the first year of Jack's life was like not positive for me at all. Yeah. And that's in retrospect really sad.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

No, but I think that's a really important thing, you said something interesting in terms of other people were the ones to shine a light on them. I know I said this before, but I remember I never had any postpartum baby blues, anything with Georgie or James. And I was okay, I'm in the clear. And by my third, I'm like, oh, this will be like a piece of cake. And I was going through a lot of other outside stressful things at the time. And it was Aaron and Jane who colluded together, but came to me and was like, You're not well, and it's okay. This feeling that you're feeling is not normal. It's not your fault, but it's not normal and it's not something that's just gonna get fixed on its own. And it was the perfect mix of tough love and someone throwing you a lifeline because I felt like I was treading water and I was just I was like, oh, I'm keeping my head above water, I got it. But it was someone who's really helping you get through. And I remember I went on a low dose anti-anxiety med, and I was once it kicked in six weeks later, I was like, wow, I didn't realize how horrible I felt.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Sometimes you need a little help to work through it, and there's no shame in that. And I think that there's just I don't know. I think I at least have this tendency to white knuckle things and be like, I'm just gonna figure it out myself.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

I was just gonna ask that. Like, why do you think your first instinct was to be like, oh, nothing's wrong. I guess it's just hard. Is it because of personality, or do women genuinely just feel shame admitting that something that's supposed to be a really happy time in their lives isn't so happy?

SPEAKER_02 34:10

I have to tell you, I don't think shame was an issue for me. I don't have any trouble vocalizing those types of things. I think it was different for Jack than it was for Belle. I think with Jack, I truly was just the overwhelm at that point in my life between all the factors I just named. I was so out of my depth. Didn't he notice it? I think he did. It's funny. I think he said something to Zan at one point. And I just think we were both really overwhelmed. We had crazy stuff going on with our jobs. It was our first kid. We were just trying to figure it out. And I don't know. I think I just didn't realize what was going on because I was so it wasn't just the baby that was overwhelming me. There were other factors. And then I think with what when it happened with Belle, which again, it was way more mild. I think I just was like, I've got three little kids, I'm stressed out and I'm juggling a million things. Such is life. It has been this way for the past four years. So I don't, for me, it wasn't shame. I think it was just I was really busy just trying to survive that I didn't even have time to really think too much about how I was feeling.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

I think for me, it was a mix of like my natural, my personality tending to be like white-knuckling and a little bit of shame. I'm like, I should be able to handle this. Like, I got this. If I say something's wrong, then I'm admitting defeat, basically. But you don't realize until you maybe get the proper help you need that you were on another planet. So I think it's really good to try and have these conversations with your friend, with your spouse now, so they like know how to look out for it. I don't think there's honestly enough education for men in the right way to look out for it because it feels really hard to put your finger on.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Well, they can't relate to it. It's an experience they haven't got. And think about it, it's like your body is fucked up from all these hormones, right? You're caring, you are caring for another human, which is never something you've done before. And in the case of a woman, literally you're their source of food in many respects. So there's a pressure there, you're deprived of sleep, and you feel out of control in your body because you just went through all this stuff. So I think it's hard for everybody, it varies, obviously. And I also just think the circumstances of your life in terms of what you have going on, how many resources you have, it it truly just plays into it without a question.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

So outside of the obvious coping mechanism of seeking like medical attention and like going on some sort of medication, which obviously is key. Were there other like coping mechanisms that you guys had in your rotation with your first kid that made you feel sane and feel like a human, like something that you consistently did that was like this brings me happiness, this grounds me? Honestly, yes, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Um, I would say no, not really. I don't think I was coping, I think I was really just surviving. That being said, I think when I think probably after maybe like when Jack was six months old, this sounds crazy because I'm so not one of those people like freaking hate berries boot camp and you couldn't pay me to take that class now. But I got really into that when he was probably four or six months old. And it was not just the physical component of it, I think there was like a mental aspect to it. I think eventually you get into a routine and there's a lot of comfort in that.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

And then I also think I was lucky enough to have a night nurse with HUD and Belle. I didn't have that with Jack. And so the sleep situation was obviously tough, and then he just wasn't a great, he was a really

Coping Mechanisms

SPEAKER_02 37:40

early riser for a while. So I think once there was a semblance of sleep again, and there was a semblance of a routine and you had gotten things sorted out, I think that's when you just start to feel better over time because your new normal has been established. I have to tell you, the defining memory of having Jack for me is coming home from the hospital and feeling unbelievably overwhelmed by taking him to the doctor. That for some reason felt like un an insurmountable feat. Because when you bring a baby home, you then have if they're perfectly healthy, it doesn't matter. You have literally a doctor's appointment a week for I don't know, I can't even remember how long.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

But it's like four weeks or something.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Four weeks. And I just was so overwhelmed by that because I had never done it before. And then we eventually had to find a nanny because we both worked full-time. The idea of managing that relationship, I had never done that before. I think in that first year you get to a steady state where you just adjust to having this new thing in your life and also completely losing your independence. That is a big adjustment.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yeah. I will say on your to your question around what are things that help you get through or cope. One thing I always think about with people is be a fountain, not a drain, and what that means around your energy. And you don't need to socialize with a bunch of people, but if you have one or two people that consistently their energy brings you joy, surround yourself with those people because that will make all the difference of when you're feeling like shit or whatever, just having those people around you because their energy lifts you up. And to the other point, if there are people in-laws, overopinionated friends, whatever that feel like they drain your energy, protect your peace. Yeah, protect your peace.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

The one thing I'll actually say, I think, especially given the fact that you're having a baby in November, which I think is a great time of year to have. Make sure you get outside. You're in New York City, you're gonna have a that's why I don't think it's a good time.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

But like get out, go walk in the cold, get your butt outside and go for a walk. Truly, like I'm just gonna want to be cozy inside with my little snookbug. You will, but you need to get outside and be a human. You can't be like a mutant who sits on the couch no way.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

For sure. I'm not gonna be, I mentally won't be able to do that, but it's a cold month, but it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

No, I actually really do think in terms of coping, I think it's getting back to a routine that helps if I have to, if I have to really reflect. Yeah. And also finding new things that bring you joy. I have such core memories of remember that ugly ass high chair I had, the spaceship looking one. Oh my god, that's all the machines had. I didn't think I was ugly. That was fun. So ugly I just sold it on Facebook Marketplace.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

That brought you joy.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

No, it was because you could take it and turn it into a little bassinet. And so I'd put it in the kitchen and cook with Jack when he was like two months old. And I just remember that being a thing that I loved to do just being at home on a Friday night cooking dinner with this cute little baby. Your sweet little baby. Yeah. So I think it's find the little things that uh give you some semblance of peace.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

And I feel like Aaron and I are sitting here delivering a lot of realness that can sound scary. And part of that is because I think so much of this is glamorized and it's not fair to women. People need to be told the truth. But I want to quickly pivot for one moment and just Aaron, what do you think has been the most joyful surprise of motherhood? The most joyful surprise?

SPEAKER_02 41:13

It's just the best thing ever. We bitch and moan about all this stuff, but we all both had three kids.

Joyful Surprises of Motherhood

SPEAKER_02 41:18

It's an indescribable thing, and I mean, what is emotional? You know what? I'm getting a little dusty because I dropped Jack off at school today. And he's older now, he's almost eight, but he's just he walked through that door to school, and I was like, the juggle is still real right now. But I'm like, what a special time because he's getting older. And you're not gonna always be there everything. And I think that's the thing you have to remind yourself is someone once said pressure is a privilege, and I think you have to remind yourself of that every day. It's really hard to be a parent, but it is the greatest gift in the world, and there are just so many elements to it that are joyful. The thing that brings me the most joy right now is the fact that my kids actually want to be around me. And whenever I go to sit on a couch to hang out with them, they all literally need to physically be touching me. And that can be overwhelming, but I'm getting to a point where I'm like, I'm really gonna relish this because I know it's not forever.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

So a hundred percent. Anyway, I think again, you realize in some ways we're animals. It is truly such a primal feeling. You feel like in terms of not only protecting your kids, but the love, it's like this, it's like an elect, it's like an energy that kind of goes through you. I remember when, and I wrote it down right afterwards because I was like, I want to remember this feeling. I was snuggling Georgie in bed, like when I was putting her to bed. This is probably nine months ago, and Georgie's almost six, and she turned her body over and she looked me in the eye and she put both hands on my cheeks, and she looked at me and she goes, I love you so much, mama. And just rubbing my face, and I burst into tears because it was just such like this, it's like this deep visceral connection, visceral connection that like they can't fake. That is like true biology, right there. It's the craziest feeling, and it's so worth it, and it's a crazy time in your life, but God, the benefits you get from it are amazing.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah, they're amazing. And I think I also have to say, because I was thinking about this today in the context of actually delivering a baby in a weird way. I want to have that experience again. Not because I feel like I had a magical birth, like I literally got cut open on a table, but that feeling of being in the hospital with your this baby for the first time, it I'm so excited for you because it is it's an it's a feeling like no other, and like time stands still, and it's the coolest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Stop. I'm gonna get emotional hormonal.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

The fact that you get to do skin to skin with a new word, I'm gonna start crying.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

No, I can't have to send Toby in. He loves skin to skin. Oh god. I think I tried to do skin to skin with Jack when he was first born. I remember when Toby was like, You're not allowed to kiss a baby.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

And he was like, I thought it was a joke, and then he literally yelled at me for kissing Jack.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

No, but looking back, I have a lot of respect for Tony. It's your baby, and it was your first baby, and it's it's about the ground rules you set, and people have to respect it, even your siblings. So looking back on the body, you're saying I can't show skin? You can do skin to skin, but yeah, I don't care. I won't try to breastfeed, I promise. Yeah, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Kat, how are you thinking and feeling about all the work stuff? Have your friends who have had kids gone back to work? Like, who have your friends and how are you thinking about that?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah. Let me put one pin in that because I

Going Back to Work Post Baby

SPEAKER_01 44:59

want to say something about what you guys were saying, your fondest memories of having kids. My fondest memories of watching your kids, seeing them grow up and be siblings to each other is amazing. Seeing them start to each other and hang out with each other and goof around, that is truly the cutest thing. And like so. It's really sweet. It's cute. Um prepping for that. I don't know. Honestly, I I haven't thought about it too deeply. I think for me personally, there is no world in which I'm not going back to work. I'm not gonna sit here and say that if I were a billionaire that I wouldn't do that. Yeah, I'd probably be sick to not have to work, but it's just a reality. It's funny. You think I know you guys, I know you guys might think that, but everyone's different.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

And I'm gonna be interested to hear what you have to say towards the end of your maternity leave.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

I yeah, I I don't know what I'm gonna feel. I genuinely don't. I think I know I'm gonna go back to work regardless, but yes, it'll be very interesting to see how I feel. I don't know. I've had some friends who I think are like ultimately ready to go back for to work and crave the mental stimulation of having a conversation with adults and being challenged every day. But then I have other friends who have not gone back to work and they're just like, I want to be at home with my child. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. I could see I could see both sides, but to your point, I think it's hard to think about and prepare for because I have no idea how I'm going to feel. Yeah. I don't know how you'll feel.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

I think work gives you a container for the part of you that existed before the baby. And so even on days where you may resent it and you're like, I don't want to go into work, it's somewhere for you to go where your brain is solving problems outside of sleep schedule and feeding and you're having adult conversations. And I think that part of it is refreshing. I also think the other thing is that so much is changing in your life that if that can stay consistent just for a little while, if you're able to and you have in your mind, I may not work. I think going back to something that feels the same for you as before, baby, it is very grounding. Yeah. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

I do look at working moms though, and I'm like, how the hell do you do it? If I come home tired one day after work, and I'm like, I couldn't imagine taking care of someone else when I feel so tired and all I want to do is go to bed.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, that's a fun adjustment you have to make. That's true for every mom. And I think honestly, like the act of putting your kids to bed at the end of the day is like you'll be exhausted if you work or you don't work. Yeah. It's just different types of exhaustion.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

So true.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

So and like go to bed when my kid goes to bed. I would actually say that on the weekends, I'm a hundred times more tired than I am during the week. It's like I'm with my kids for three hours a day during the week, give or take. And yes, I am exhausted, but it's a different type of exhaustion. There's a taxing physical exhaustion to being with your kids all day.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Stimulating work and being stimulated in that type of time. Constantly. Being a full-time mom is truly that is the hardest job in the world. I think it's harder. And it's so funny how much flack Emma Greed has gotten for this stupid clickbait headline of she's a three-hour mom. Yeah. I think the point that she was making, and she's I work all week, so on the weekends, I spend time with my kids in the morning, and then the afternoon, like I make time for myself. Yeah. And people are up in arms, and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm like that. Or if I think about it, I'm like, I spend an hour and a half with them in the morning and probably an hour and a half with them at night during the week because we're working.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

I think the thing on the issue of identity and tying back to what you just said about this, like I definitely think that this is something that women struggle with more than men. And it's because we're conditioned to feel that if you're gonna be a good mom, it means you're

Putting Yourself First

SPEAKER_02 48:54

completely selfless and that like you're completely available to them. And I just I don't agree with that or believe that. And I think we did see that a little bit growing up with mom. Mom was amazing, there were six kids, it was her job to be the mom, and dad was working, and she made a lot of emotional sacrifices to make everything feel perfect for us. And I think that for a long time, at least I internalized that, and I think I thought that okay, if I'm gonna be a good mom and a good wife, that means putting myself last. And I think the point of all the emigre stuff is to say the most important relationship you have is the one that you have with yourself. Because you cannot pour from an empty cup. If you are depleted, then you're not gonna show up as the parent, partner, or the person that you want to be. And I think that's a really important thing to remember. Again, whether you work or you don't work, it is okay to make time for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I I think it makes you a better parent.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

And I think that's why right now I'm definitely in this phase of waking up early, working out first thing in the morning before anyone gets up at six. I do that for me, like no one else, because it makes me feel in control and mentally sane. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

So you have to find that. You have to, even if it takes some time away from your children, it's gonna just make you a net better parent if you are prioritizing self-care mentally and physically.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

And I also think it teaches kids to defend for their for themselves, like you don't need to solve every problem for them. I think it's really hard to teach, and I really struggle with this the whole building resilience in kids because you kind of hate to see them suffer. So you're like, oh, let me fix this. I'm so guilty of this, it's not good.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

I think this notion that we need to make childhood this a completely magical experience at all times for kids is one I don't personally agree with. Obviously, I want them to have really happy memories and I don't want them to suffer, but life is not easy and they need they do need to experience and they need to practice independence. And that is a big thing I will say, especially with my kids now. I'm really in a phase where I'm like, I'm not doing stuff for you anymore. I'm not picking up after you. If you want with Jack now, I'm like, if you want to go to school by a certain time, you have a watch and you can tell time. Tell me when you want to leave. Pack your good, that's great. I think seven-year-old, when do you want to go to school? He always wants to go at the crack of dawn. So I'm like, okay, if you want to be there on time, we have to leave at 7.05. You, I'm dealing with a million other things. Look at your watch to bring those back. Anyway, whatever. I just think, yeah, you gotta have your own life because your kids need to have their own life.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

And also, I feel like some of the best parts that I remember about childhood was like came out of the practice of being bored. You have to let your kids be bored because that's when they use their imagination. That's I remember the best times in our neighborhood is when you'd literally go out. Me and my neighbor would go out in this bush that was like our hideaway. We'd pick berries from a tree, make potion, and we'd be witches. It was so fun.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Any last burning questions as you think about this impending motherhood?

SPEAKER_01 52:05

I feel like I've picked up on some nuggets from you guys, but if you had to say in one word, biggest adjustment post-birth for you within a year, let's say to your life, yeah.

Biggest Adjustments in Your First Year of Motherhood

SPEAKER_02 52:19

I think loss of independence.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah, I was about to say loss of spontaneity.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Another thing I'd say, like it's not one word, but the getting adjusted to how much money you have to spend on child care.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

I thought you guys were gonna say like sleep or something. Sure, yeah. So, of course, typical. Yeah, yeah. Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Kids are we'll do a whole other episode on the realities of adulting as it relates to finances and all that stuff. That stuff is wild.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Oh, that's gonna scare me away from no, it's you figure out like everything else in life, you just figure it out, and again, back to a primary like you guys always say, surviving.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

I'm like, what are you doing this weekend? You guys are always like surviving, surviving.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

You know what? You know what, as Dory says in Finding Nemo, just keep swimming, literally, totally, just keep just keep swimming.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

I love my god, it's true, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

One foot in front of the other, it's truly true. Yep, yeah, you'll cry. All right, Aaron, trying buying loving. What's on the docket for this week? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

I am loving the soft services body buffing bar. Lila, remember when Lila did

Trying, Buying, Loving

SPEAKER_02 53:33

like the L Instagram thing? I literally screenshotted her recommendations and bought literally all of them. But it looks like a bar of soap, and you like you just rub it all over your body, and it makes your skin feel so smooth. Love it. Oh, I love it. Highly recommend soft services.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Okay, can you send that to me? I need I'm gonna buy that.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Yeah, highly recommend. Oh, love it. Sorry, could you?

SPEAKER_01 53:56

I was gonna say something and then I take it back. I don't want to. No, say it. Say it. Say it. Okay, fine, I'll say it. Okay, so oh god, I don't know. Say it. So the skin on your arms and like your booty cannot be like as soft as the skin on like obviously everywhere else. Yeah. I have started to be religious about using, you know, the O say yeah body scrub. The scrub, like religiously scrubbing the shit up. Your butt.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah. Because I'm like, You got a nice, you got an onion booty, you gotta take care of that.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

So I'm thinking I try this soap too.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

You should try. It's try the bar, it's amazing. Lila said she swears by it. So I obviously believe her. Love her recommendations.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

So what I'm buying are ice packs for my face, like the ice pack masks, because I'm having my bluff on Tuesday. I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited. And there's really not much downtime aside from the fact that you need to ice your face so you don't bruise.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

So can we do an episode when you are up? 100%. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna need details.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Dirty deets. So that's what I'm that's what I'm gonna buy. And what I'm trying, because I said I'm loving the thing. What I'm trying is I'm trying fun pants, okay? I've decided I already told you about part of my wardrobe, which is a cardigan and necklace. And I'm adding fun pants to my wardrobe, okay? I love that. So you have I know I have fun pants, but I'm leaning into fun pants. And so I just bought the La Veste pink striped ones.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

They're doing a pop-up in May in New York. I'm so excited. Oh my god. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Have you seen these other pants that are the gingham?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Oh, yes, the Dani ones.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yeah, the ones. They're sold out. I also feel like I'm too short.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

No, they're like 450, I think.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Okay, they're 450, yeah. But um kind of crazy for drawstring pants.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

I also just some like I'm I feel like I'm not tall enough to look good in those, but I might buy them. I actually did, speaking of fun pants, I got these red gingham ones from Saison. Very cute, very flattering. So I'm in my fun pants, Sara. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Okay. So that's it for me. Kat, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Oh god. Oh, I'm trying needle pointing, and it's harder than it looks. I thought it was gonna be super simple, and I watched a video and I was like, oh god, this seems so involved. Jackie. But I'm gonna push through. Wow, he knows so many skills, and he's seven. What the fuck? Okay. Does he know the complicated needle pointing?

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Oh no, we you don't, he doesn't do it on like the he does the bigger ones. Yeah. This is like slight, this is slightly above that.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Um that buying, we love our Megan and I love our local west side shop in Tribeca, and I cannot go in there without buying something because best saleswoman ever. They have a lot of amazing linen clothes right now, and they had this awesome Citizens of Humanity linen drawstring pants, and there it's just a really good relaxed linen. You know, when you find stiff linen, it's like the exact opposite of that.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

But how are you gonna wear drawstring pants right now? You're about to have a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

So I thought I thought about that, yeah, drawstrings, and then she convinced me somehow this is the magic of this saleswoman. Good for her. I was like, I feel like this is a silly purchase because I'm about to row, and she was like, Yeah, but you can still tie them and then wear a long shirt. I was like, Okay, I see what you're saying, and I was like, I'll fit into them after. So whatever. Loving Clementines, like, oh no, I'm addicted to PB and J right now. I think I've been eating a PBJ a day, maybe. Yeah, guys. So good. Do not sleep on it.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

Okay, Meg for me. Trying, I used to be really good about this, but I am trying to get back into doing gallery walks, like art gallery walks, living in downtown New York, especially in Tribeca. There's many galleries on one block, and you don't need to pay to go, you can dip it and out. And if you had an hour on a Saturday, it is such a great activity. And I really feel like for me it activates another side of my brain, and I just feel like refreshed and more creative. So I'm trying to build that more into my schedule because that's a really nice thing. So that's trying buying. I wore it a lot last summer and I just shrunk it. I am rebuying the Doan Petra Cardigan, which I think Aaron is actually wearing right now. What up? In their sea salt white color because I literally wore this every chilly or relatively cold night of the summer or when there's AC in a restaurant. Shoot, I'm gonna buy it. It's a great sweater. Don't buy it before me, but it's a great sweater because I need to buy it before it's sold out. Okay. No, I'm just saying before it's sold out.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

And I'll go online right after this and buy it. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

And then the thing I've really been loving is a new friend through work has started this lunch club. It's a mix of investors, founders, and just all around interesting people. And every two weeks we meet for lunch and one or two people bring a guest. And it's just such an interesting mix of people. We're not really talking about things core to work. We're literally talking about new hobbies, philosophy, totally random topics. One person was talking about their peptide regimen. It's lovely, it was just like yeah, it was just very refreshing and a cool way to meet people in a short period of time.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Fabulous. Well, I'll be waiting for my invitation in the mail. Yeah, I can't surprise I haven't got it.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

You can bring us as the guests.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Oh, yeah, Aaron.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Can I come in a couple weeks? You can bring it up. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

She's like, yeah, Aaron. I'm like, okay, I guess I'll just go fuck myself. I have interesting things to say. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

You definitely do. You definitely do.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Just because I'm not a founder.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

No, you do. You would make every what you would literally make everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Let me just like give the heaviest eye roll ever. Where is Claire when you need her? Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Where?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

Where she's us.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

Yeah, Claire, Claire's really, she better come in with moral support.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

With some hot takes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

I am just so excited for this next chapter. And until that baby comes, enjoy the spontaneity, do all the fun things, relish your free time. And then when that baby comes, ooh, I can't wait to stuggle her. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

I cannot wait. Next is like picking a name. So that'll be interesting. Oh, yeah. I know. We need to talk about that. I know. I'm not feeling I only have one I'm feeling excited about right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

So can you tell us not on the podcast, but can you tell us?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

I'll tell you separately.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

I think it's the one you told us before. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

I can't remember, but we need to discuss immediately what's done with this. I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

But let me just say that I'm not telling people widely because I don't want people's opinions in my head. If you don't like it, just I won't give you my opinion, which is hard for me, but I won't.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Okay, can we get on a call? Can we get on a call right after this? Because I want to hear it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

I love you. Good night. Bye. Bye.