Birth Order, Brutal Rejuvenation & How Your Siblings Shape Who You Are

All five sisters are in the chat for this one. We get into birth order, eldest daughter trauma (or lack thereof), and what growing up in a big family actually does to you — the roles you never asked for, the comparisons you couldn't avoid, and the siblings who shaped you before you even knew it was happening. Turns out the oldest got off easy, the middle child's therapist has notes, and the youngest has thoughts. Plus: relationship advice from the elders that actually worked and TBLs all around.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey fam, welcome to Relative Chaos. We're five sisters spanning every stage of life, having the honest, unfiltered conversations that only happen when you've known each other since the beginning. So call your sisters. We need to discuss. Hey, sisters. Hey, I always do the high pitch introduction. Yeah, I don't know what is it about you.

SPEAKER_05 0:22

Always the I know. Emma is Kylie with this mic right now.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Yeah. I think I send you like the standard black, and you just went in the total opposite direction. So you do you, sister.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah. Be a pink microphone in a world of black microphones. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 0:39

I'm here for that. Aaron, I'm so glad you're wearing some sort of facial accessory again this week. I know.

Erin's Bleph Update

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I'll give you a quick little update. The update is I still look God.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Lord.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Maybe put them back on.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Yeah. Oh my god. So scary. It's really good.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Are you following like all the procedures of what you're supposed to be doing? Getting the special creams and like the army. Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

All these people who get surgeries and are back in the world so quickly. Did it ever occur to you that maybe they just you don't see them until after a couple of weeks have passed?

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Did anyone see Chris Jenner after her facelift? I mean, I think the recovery on that's slightly different. But yes, you're right. I think they generally tend to retreat. I, however, went to a birthday party on Saturday and scared everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

I cannot believe that, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I wore sunglasses inside, but I just felt like such a loser wearing sunglasses that I kept taking them off and explaining myself. And then people were like, put them back on.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

I have a question. What is the dynamic around that when people see that you have bruises on your face? Is it like a oh, she got something done, or is everyone supportive and it's a good environment?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

I honestly didn't know very many people at this party that well. And I was just very honest with them. So hence my question. I'm sure it's a mix of both. Some are like, go you. No one was like, Oh, I can't believe you did that. But the poor men, I think, were like, I don't know what to say to you. Basically, that's not something that we talk about. Yeah. Yeah, they're just kind of you're unwell. So anyway, you know, growth.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

That's exhausting to have to answer that question so much.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

You look great in those sunglasses, though. Wait, so when did your doctor say the likelihood that these bruises are gonna go away?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I read the sheet. They say it can take 30 days, but I had this unrealistic goal or deadline in my mind because my friend who did it recently did not bruise at all, and I should have expected differently because I bruise from Botox. So I did call the doctor today to make sure that I did not have an infection, and she said, in fact, this is standard.

SPEAKER_05 2:50

So proceed. Have you been taking Advil because after I got lip injections, they said do not take Advil because it will uh make you bruise more.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

No, I haven't taken anything.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

Have you been drinking?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

No.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Have you been drinking?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

I drink regularly. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

The one thing I did do, which I don't think helped things, was I've been going in the sauna. Apparently, that is a no-no. Yeah, oh my god. It's okay. I'll be fine. I think it may have just made the bruising worse.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

You have a sauna addiction. I do. She does.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Also, have you can you put makeup on?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

No, you cannot. Oh, that makes sense. Okay. I can't put anything. You can put like a little like under I'm doing Zooms with your team members. No. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

I feel like that's like an HR violation.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I know. I actually have a call with our PR team tomorrow, and I'm just gonna say I'm sick and I can't be on screen. Yeah, I think that's totally fine. Yeah. But anybody internal, like basically there, I'm like, I look like shit and you can't see me, or I tell them the truth, but yeah, it ain't pretty.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

Can't wait to see the final before and after results, though. It's gonna be great. I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

It better be great because those Adam Levine photos are haunting my life at the moment. So I'm hoping I didn't make a terrible mistake.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Which ones? His new Oh, I saw that. I was like, who is that? And then someone in the comments was like, Adam Levine. I'm like, no, that's not. He looks like a melted wax candle from Adam Tusads.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

So I didn't read the article, but it I think it popped up in my feed on Sunday morning. But basically, it was an allure article that was essentially like, hey guys, stop getting brow lifts and upper bluffs. Your physiology or whatever is not made for that. Basically, these procedures do not suit men in the way they suit women for some reason or another. I didn't actually read the article, but interesting. I'm hoping my outcome is different than his.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

I feel like he had a lot of other Botox stuff going on, too, though, that contributed to that.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

True, but his eye area looks scary.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I hate when people do this. Hey, you know what? Let's not yuck other people's yum. If it makes Adam Levine happy to get it, I'm not yucking his yum.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

I'm also praising his natural beauty. Like I think a lot of men, unfortunately, age very gracefully and beautifully, depending on who they are. So I'm kind of like lean into it because you actually get hotter with age sometimes. That's my thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

If you don't have to do it, why put yourself through it? Like men are rewarded for aging. Yeah, not growing.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

I like that. If you don't have to do it, don't put yourself through it. It's like a jingle.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

It is a jingle.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

I'll add it to my repertoire.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

You will make a jingle out of anything.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

True. The guy from the pit, Dr. Abbott, he got better with age. Oh my god, he is so fine. Yeah, he's age well.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

That becomes nicely. I should definitely try and watch ER at some point. Mostly just to see an old George Clooney.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

I'm watching young a new doctor show called Brilliant Minds. It's on Peacock.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Are you sure it's not on like a cable news channel?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, no, it's definitely way more random than that. But no, the only reason why I know about it is the guy that I wanted to play, Garrett Graham, is in that show. Oh and that's why I only care about it. Garrett Graham, leading man in the deal. Yes. And I was so sad because he was following the author, so I was like, oh, we're locked in. This is who's gonna be cast. And now I don't mind the casting at all. I think he's very adorable. He was in the reboot of Save by the Bell, thought he was great. I presume as AC Slater. He was AC Slater, of course, yeah. The son or whatever it is. He looks nothing alike, but that doesn't matter. But yeah, anyway, he's in that show. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I feel like our listeners will probably assume that we have some kind of sponsorship agreement with the off-campus show, which we don't. We just clearly are obsessed with it. And if it does not meet our expectations, it's gonna be really sad.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I would probably throw my computer out the window.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

But sorry, when has a book adaptation into a show ever met your expectations? Heated rivalry. Oh, I didn't read the book before, so fair take.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yes, that one, but the other Bennett sister that's about to come out soon. I already watched it. Emma uses illegal websites. Oh, I can't wait. I have to watch it right away. I can't watch edits, and then it's so good. The acting is so good. The guy who's the Irish lead in it is divine. Yeah,

Take Me to Church

SPEAKER_00 7:38

something else of Gucci.

SPEAKER_05 7:39

Emma was also saying that yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, what we went to the church yesterday?

SPEAKER_05 7:44

Yeah, I was feeling down bad yesterday, and Lila lives near a really breathtaking church. I'd actually never been inside, but I was like, should we go in for a second just to say a prayer to light a candle to make me feel better about myself? And we did that, and it was I was shocked. It was such a beautiful church. It really took my breath away, but just had to kind of connect with our spiritual sides for a moment.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Wait, were we feeling down bad? Yeah, not actually, I was just hungover. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:17

So you need to go to church herself in the holy water, exactly. Did a little, did a little prayer.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Was the prayer, dear God, please cure me of this hangover?

SPEAKER_05 8:28

Yeah, I was just like, remind me that I'm a good person. Oh, yeah, you had it down bad.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

When a hangover turns into a full self-evaluation, yeah, that's always rough. I think it's a good one.

SPEAKER_05 8:37

But I was with my girls, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

It's good.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

I think it's because I hadn't been hungover in so long like that that it kind of shook me to my core. But it was okay. I had a breakfast burrito in the morning, it was fine.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

That looks so good.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

I know I can now pinpoint those moments when they happen because obviously they're like few and far between. But I remember my last like down bad moment also was like a night out with the girls. Like we group texted and we're like, we're having a GNO. And I think I was in bed till 3 p.m. the next day. Like I was so unwell. I was like, I gotta reevaluate my life. Yeah, but those are also the best nights, those are the best nights, so worth it.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

And I've also decided if I'm ever hung over again that I'll just get like an IV drip. Don't you think, Erin? Like that only helps so much. I don't like needles.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

I'm too squeamish for that. I had to go to the dentist today to get this thing in my mouth. I ended up getting a stitch in my mouth. It was really crazy. Because there's something wrong with the bone on my tooth, but we're chilling. Were you okay? Yeah, no, we're totally fine, but they just had to give me a stitch, and the worst part of it is the numbing process. Oh, yeah. Where they're like putting needles, shooting whatever the numbing gel is into your mouth. It really was unpleasant.

Hot Dentist

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I hated the dentist until about two weeks ago. And by hate the dentist, I mean I went once every four years.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Yeah. Gross.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

However, I found my dentist is kind of hot. And by kind of hot, I'd give him like a 7.5 out of 10, like hot.

SPEAKER_06 10:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

And he's just very good at his job. He fixed that chip in my tooth or whatever. Fixed it, did a great job. But also, he's not every time I go, he's not, oh, you need to have 10 cavities filled. Sometimes I'm kind of like, do I need a cavity filled, or are you just trying to make money off of it?

SPEAKER_05 10:30

Well, if you're only going to the dentist four times a year, it is likely that you do have cavities filled. No, once every four years. Once every four years, you probably have cavities filled.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

No, but I have good teeth. I'm just genetically blessed. I don't mean it doesn't matter where they look, I mean in terms of my cavity.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

I'm so happy you fixed your front tooth. I can't even tell you. It was a bit offensive. I know. You have the best teeth of everyone in the family.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Yeah, and honestly, at the end of the day, it was just like a slap in the face. You're gifted with good teeth. Yeah, but you're gifted with good teeth. You should take care of them. You should be going to the dentist every six months.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

I am now because I love my dentist, so I've been on a very good schedule. Checking it. Oh God.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Jack's gonna have gray teeth.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

I have to tell you, I do think of all of you every time I go to that dentist because I also think of the McDonald's and the fact that mom used to take us straight there afterwards. So good. Speaking of mom, has mom been home this week? Yes, she has been home. She came over yesterday, and I think she was just frankly bored. So she came over and, of course, like immediately started organizing all the toys, which I was so grateful for because I it it also stresses me out. But then she started organizing all the toys, so then I started purging like the whole kitchen area. And I don't know, this weekend was just like a slog. I have three million sports now for Jack, and it's just it's great, but it's very drainy. You end up doing a lot of nothing. And so between that, me looking the way I do and getting my period, I just felt very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_05 12:09

And I'm gonna guess Toby cleaned the garage.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

He did clean the garage. He literally came home from all the sports. We were like on this vacation with our friends, and everybody was like, it was like in March, and everybody was like, What are you excited for this spring? And people were like, traveling to Paris or somewhere cool or doing something else interesting. And Toby's so excited for spring sports. He's he loves for it. Well, man, he is a man of simple pleasures. He's coaching Jack's football team. It brings him a lot of joy. But yes, so he did clean the garage after he returned from that. And while I was doing all this mindless shit, I watched Crazy Rich Asians, which I hadn't seen. Such a good movie in a long time. I love that movie. Really good. I did cry a little bit, which was weird. Shocked. I know. What part made you cry? The wedding part. I don't know why. Oh I got very emotional.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

When she's walking down the aisle to can't help falling in love with you, and it goes acoustic, and she's the water starts flowing down the aisle.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Oh my god, you're gonna make me a little dusty just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Okay, but can I say it actually led me down this weird rabbit hole? And that rabbit hole was where did Constance Wu go? She's good. Is she? What has she done?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

She's actually no, I've written a book.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yes, she did. I could tell you that because it's been a lot of time. Hasn't been around for a long time. She kind of got I don't want to say she got cancelled, but she I think was difficult to work with. Yeah, but it made me think this morning when I logged into my work stuff.

What Your ChatGPT History Says About You

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Have you guys ever looked at your chat GPT history? Mine is so random.

SPEAKER_05 13:46

Yeah. There was a trend going around where it was like, ask chat GPT the weirdest question I've ever asked you, and it will see. Oh, I want to do that right now.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Mine just like really runs the gamut of everything, including a deep dive on Constance Woo. But anyway, I highly recommend those books if you have not read them, the Kevin Kwan ones.

SPEAKER_05 14:09

I actually asked Chachi BT today what is the relationship between Jonah Hill and his sister because apparently they were very close, but then she's having a baby and she just Instagrammed today. And I was looking at her wedding pictures, he's not in the wedding photos. Did you look at it? I think we're close. So I looked it up, and in 2024, 2023 or four, there was an article that was like, We're really good friends, but there are all these group shots at the wedding of their entire family, and he's not in them.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

This is like to be in photos.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I don't know. Ask a question. Yes. Why is anybody writing about Jonah Hill's sister? Because she's an actress.

SPEAKER_05 14:52

She's an actress. Yeah, she's like famous.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

What? She's in what was that show? That's hilarious movie. Funny girl. So funny.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

She's in a lot. Jonah.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Beanie Feldstein.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

She's a different name. Stage name. Yeah, got it. Okay. So they're not friends anymore.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

I don't know if they're not friends. That's why I was like, chat, help a girl out. I need to know what's happening with these people. That'd be so crazy. Yeah, and I just thought it was crazy that there's the potential of them not being close anymore, but chat didn't really have a clear answer for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Same thing with Hillary and Haley Duff, all these siblings. I actually think Jonah and his sister are close, but it just breaks my heart to see. I hope that does not happen to us ever. It won't.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

No, we're too overly communicating.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

I know. It's funny, way too close for that.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

The other day, I got this New York Post article served to

Eldest Daughter Trauma

SPEAKER_01 15:48

me. There's apparently an eldest daughter club in New York City. It's a support group for eldest daughters in New York. And it's funny, it caught my attention because lately I feel like I've been seeing a lot of this eldest daughter trauma type of content on Instagram. And it's funny because like obviously it's clearly real for some people, but it's never been my experience. And I think going back to what you guys just said, I we definitely are lucky that our family is not perfect, but that like we don't have a lot of those difficult dynamics that I think a lot of people contend with.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

What was some of the stuff that was captured in that article? Like, what is like the old eldest sister trauma? Enlighten us eldest sister.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

I was not aware of the trauma because it's not something I've ever experienced, as I just said, but I think it's just this narrative that the oldest sister has was basically a second parent. They're they have to be overly responsible. They're the fixer, they're the one to carry the emotional load of the family. But I think since our family's so big and there are so many women in it, we all kind of share those responsibilities, which is nice. I, for example, feel like I'm probably a lot more selfish than a lot of oldest daughters, and I've had the luxury of being that way because there are a lot of other people to divide on responsibilities. I feel like in our family, I play a parental role at times, but I think Megan also does too. And I think the way it breaks down among siblings also varies. Yes, I'm an oldest sister to Emma, but Emma, I feel like I was more of like a parental figure to you almost because we're 13 years apart in age, whereas Claire is probably more of a traditional older sister to you than I was. So I feel like it's just the sibling dynamics are a little bit different since there are so many of us.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

I know that's so funny you said that because I was listening to this guy, but he was on like Australian, like the Today Show in Australia, and he had a book called The Birth Order, Why You Are the Way That You Are, and a lot of those characteristics that you mentioned are listed. And I think he made it seem like a lot of the people who are older siblings resent their role and they don't want to have all this responsibility and they're pushed into it. But I feel like I never got that impression from you. Maybe you felt that way, but I feel like you were like the Lorelai Gilmore to me in a way. Yes, young moms.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

I do too. Wait, I don't what does that mean? I never watched Gilmore Girls.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

So Lorelai is a teen mom.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

And which you were not for the record, I was not a teen mom. She was not a team, and nothing wrong with that. Respect all the team moms out there. But I just mean I remember being nine years old when you graduated college, and all my friends in elementary school had sisters that were in middle school. Yeah, fair. So it definitely was not normal, but that's like I always related to that watching Yilmar Girl. So I'm like, oh, it's like an Aaron.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

Yeah, if Aaron was like your mom, that would be the age difference.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

It's funny, I do have to give a lot of I think part of the dynamic is there are so many of us, but I think there are lots of instances where there are big families, but the parents are like, kids, go earn your keep, go work. You can't go out because you need to stay home and babysit your siblings. And I give mom and dad a lot of credit because I don't really think they ever put that burden on us too much. Obviously, growing up, like I had to babysit you guys here and there, but it was never overdone. And I think the more I was reflecting on this, I feel like they let us be kids, especially though this really applies to those of us that were on the older side. But I was such a selfish teenager. And mom and dad, I don't want to say they enabled it, but like they could have been less tolerant of that than they were. Like truly. I don't think I told you guys this ever, but like probably two years ago, I was with mom. We were in the basement, and I was like, mom, who's like the executor of your and dad's will or estate or whatever it is? Who, if God forbid ever something ever happens, which sibling has that responsibility? And typically speaking, newsflash, it's no sibling, thankfully. So we don't that burden hasn't fallen to any of us or not burdened, that responsibility, I should say. But apparently that's like a standard thing. But yeah, my reason for bringing up pissed she doesn't have the listen, you would think it would be the oldest sibling, but mom was like, I think I'm pretty sure it was Megan last time I checked because you kind of didn't have your shit together for a while.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

You're a little checked out, and I was like, like, okay, you never thought had your shit together. Maybe we're too ruthless, and so they wanted to put the gentle Aaron.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Definitely had because I was gonna say, in most people's experiences, do they feel like a lot of their personality traits have been defined by their birth order? And I wouldn't say that was you in the beginning, because although I was way younger, so I didn't see your day-to-day life, you definitely had fun. You weren't the quintessential study hard. I remember your freshman year of college, you telling me when I went to college, be like, go to the library and get good grades because it'll screw you later down the line, which was a valuable lesson for me to know. But I agree with you. I feel like you didn't develop the older sister trope until later in life. And then the responsibilities of the rest of the family definitely fell to you. And I also feel like, again, example of how birth order sometimes impacts you, but a lot of it is just your surrounding influences that impact you. And I think you becoming a sheo and H B I C and an H B I C ultimately is in my mind, probably what made you feel more authoritative or decisive or calling the shots.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Well, again, I also think this all comes back to selfishness and the fact that because there were so many of us, different people could take on different responsibilities that might traditionally fall to an eldest sibling if there are three kids or two kids or whatever. And again, in our case, I had the luxury of you guys pulling your weight in many respects. And I was it's funny, I was thinking about like, when did I grow into that role more? It wasn't even my 20s. Like, I think it was my 30s. I think part of it probably is related to life and work. But I think it's also kids, but also being like, wait, our parents are young, but they're not 50 anymore. And just being like, we need to, I want to take care of our parents, not the other way around. And I think you wake up to that one day. I'm staring down 40, and you're like, okay, it's time for me to assume the role of caregiver. But I think a lot of people would have had to do that much earlier than I did had they not had many other siblings who are also responsible and parents that didn't force them that on them.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

I think like being in a big family just makes you grow up fast. Like I was looking at Ballerina Farms the other day, and like she had all her kids like running around. And like the kid who was just the youngest two months ago before she had that baby pouring milk in her cup and doing all these things. And I'm like, this kid is barely one.

SPEAKER_06 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

And I just think it forces the younger ones to grow up a lot faster.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

If you think about it now, like the average family is much smaller. There's less siblings. And as a result, the parents pay more attention to them, more coddling, do things for them, which as a result, then it's okay. Now you're a way less self-sufficient sufficient and independent person, which is a detriment in the end. So I feel and I know you said this, Erin, in one of our last episodes that mom will forever help complex about me being middle child and not being paid attention to. But in hindsight, I also feel like it gave me an opportunity to be more self-sufficient and get shit done on my own.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

I just think you're like more normal and well adjusted because you've you had to consider the needs of others on both ends, up and down. Whereas again, with me, I had a bunch of younger siblings, and so did Megan, and we had to consider your guys' needs, but we didn't get it from both directions.

unknown 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

That's what the guy said when he was doing the interview. He was like, the middle child is the delegator, they're caring about what the older siblings are dealing with, and then the younger sibling, and they're self-sufficient, they're independent, they are well adjusted, they're always making sure that everyone else is good. And furthermore, in work stuff and in life, they can handle and help out other people and make sure they're okay, as well as doing that with themselves. So it's like simultaneously they can multitask.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

The delegation piece makes me laugh a little bit because I don't even think I had things to delegate throughout my entire time of being in this family. I've always felt like I'm the one that secretly gets away with not having to take on certain responsibilities. Really?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I feel like Aaron and I would always be like, oh, Claire, can you run upstairs? Or cat, can you run upstairs and go get my water bottle? But that's bossing them around.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

That's not generally on older different.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Those are like silly tasks. I mean like bigger things. Like I just I'm just there.

SPEAKER_05 24:58

Yeah. You're a good listener. A good listener, you're good at keeping the vibes up. Here for the vibes, y'all. Here for the vibes, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

They say too that the middle sibling is very loyal, and I feel like you're that way in the family, but also that way in your friendships. Totally. That's always like a good trait of you. You're able to, at least for me, like when I hear about like someone being rude to a sibling, like I have the innate aggression. Yeah, aggression. Maybe aggression is the right word. And you're so good about loyalty and understanding them, and I just I want to fight them. So that's something I'm learning to do. You can't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Oh, obviously, I'm not gonna fight them.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

I say that like maybe sometimes depends on your best business. Who do we think had the best birth order out of all of us? That's a good question. That's a really good question. Who do we think had it best? I actually have an answer. I was gonna say that. Yeah, really?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yes, interesting. Tell Claire's, let me just shove all my traumas down.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

I'm like, oh no, I thought of myself too.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Aaron, what were you gonna say? Before we dig in on Claire, I just want to say that Joey could have had it the best if he played his cards a little bit better than he did. Oh, totally. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Only boy.

SPEAKER_05 26:25

Yeah, I it could have gone either way, but sweet. I love you so much, Joey. I think he really took not only the middle child trope to heart, he really took the only boy thing to heart as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

And I think that just overplayed that hand, or he's just he's so charming and charming and charismatic. Yeah, charismatic, totally. You were he's so charismatic, like he could have really just owned the home.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

He could have owned the whole prince trope, but that was not the case.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

I think you can also want to be the star of the show, like a lot of middle children can camouflage, or they're gonna wanna act out in certain ways when they're younger to have the attention beyond them, and sometimes maybe it's not the best kind of attention.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

Yeah, I think Joey was trying Joey was trying to camouflage and unfortunately just did the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah, no, he was pretty conspicuous. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. No, but I agree. I think Claire, you had a good thing going for sure.

SPEAKER_05 27:32

Let's let's get into that. Why do you think that?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

You go, and then I want to go. Well, couple things. Your dad's favorite, and that's just always been true.

SPEAKER_05 27:42

But is that a birth order thing or just a me thing? No, no, that's just a you thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

That's a you thing. Yeah, it could be because you guys looked alike when you were in second grade.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

We look alike all no, you don't, not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

I'm literally thinking of the one picture that Toby puts. I'm sorry, don't get mad at me. No, it's the thing.

SPEAKER_05 28:03

Toby and I have this relationship, but I'm not sure why, where he over the years has collected all of my worst childhood images. Oh my god. And the period of my life, especially when I was given a shaggy pixie cut and had snaggle teeth, and frequently walked around without a shirt on. This is me as a two-year-old. And in the photos, I look like a boy, distinctly like a boy. And then it's when they're the dress like a boy day thing at our high school, and I would wear a wig, and there's this one photo that Toby found of dad with the exact same haircut. The resemblance is uncarny. It's really off-putting.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

But that's not why you're his favorite. You're his favorite because you're amazing, and like whatever, good for you. I think that's part of the reason why it's been such a good situation. But I also think like they were a little tired by the time.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

They got there's a five-year age gap between Kat and Claire.

SPEAKER_05 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:10

Which is a fat age gap.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

That is a fat age gap.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah, I don't think that was like you guys were necessarily like part of the original plan.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

But I don't know, I think surprises. I think Claire was, and you were like, okay, now we need to give her a friend.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

Toby also told me I mean I'm about the accidents who know you were the accident, and then your parents felt bad.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Oh, I actually didn't know that. We're making this up. I don't know if it's confirmed.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

No, but it's eye-opening. I was like, so true. Really thoughtful of mom and dad. Truthfully that thoughtful.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah. That would be brutal if you were the youngest one. You'd be insufferable.

SPEAKER_05 29:43

I don't think they wanted that either. An only child was never their energy, and it would have been it would have been like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

But I would say that in one sense it was good for you because they were a little bit more tired. And I do think you got better clothes than we did. Mom was pretty fucking stringent with us in terms of buying us things. Like, i.e. not. So I feel like you had a better situation there. However, I don't feel like they were. I think we've discussed this at some point previously, but I don't know. I think they may have been more strict with you than they were with us.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

I think the issue is that I what?

SPEAKER_04 30:24

I was gonna say that's because Claire like acted out. Girl deserved to be grounded.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

But so is that 2.0. She was naughty. I was worse than Claire. But it was the oldest sibling and they were checked out with their other kids.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Different times. Or maybe I was just better at getting away with it than you were, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 30:42

But I think I also my birth order is unique in the sense where not trying to be like, oh, I'm unique, but I think it's different than everyone else because I'm in the youngest bucket, but I'm also an older sister a little bit, like the oldest child. Totally. But then I did have this period of time where when you guys were away at college and Emma was at boarding school, it was just me, mom, and dad at home. So then I was like an only child for a little bit. True.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

So you've lived all the life. The point about the age gap is has a big impact, like the five-year, and that is very evident from you. I think we talked about this last time. When we go on a trip, I think I noticed this really for the first time when we went to Paris together. I was like, oh my God, you are not young child energy. You were leading me around of this is where we're going, this is the subway we have to take, this is the app you need to download to get on the subway. And I was like, this is fabulous. I don't have to do anything. And I was like, you're I was like, I will give you that. As a young, youngest sibling, you do not give that energy at all.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah, I have to add to that, you kind of do intimidate me, which is weird because you're so much younger than I am. But like this morning when we were talking, like I was like, Aaron called me this morning.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Did she give you one of her Aaron talking to? Yeah, she did. Well, no, not actually.

SPEAKER_05 32:08

No, sorry, that was a joke. But

Feedback aka A Brutal Rejuvenation

SPEAKER_05 32:10

she was just like, I have a piece of feedback for you. And I was like, okay. But I was like, it's the feedback that I think the overall takeaway in no secret that I think this podcast journey has been most difficult for me. I think one of my worst trait and something I'm always trying to work on is I care a lot about what other people think. I do. I'm unfortunately not a naturally positive person, I don't think. And I think previously I was very more cynical about the podcast. So I'm just trying to up my positivity, which is what me and Aaron talked about.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

No, I don't want fake positive. All I'm saying is it's easier to be a critic than a cheerleader, and I'm like the number one offender of that. But whatever, that's not why I brought this up. Why I brought this up is when we were having this conversation, I was like, why am I fucking intimidating talking to my sister who's 11 years younger than I am? Because of her tone. She gives a vibe. You give a vibe. It's not a bad vibe, but it's like you intimidate me and I'm respect.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

Because Aaron was saying something, and I was pulling up receipts. I was like, I appreciate that, but can you explain why Kat said something this morning and isn't getting the same reaction?

SPEAKER_04 33:23

I got pulled into something.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

I just was using you as an example.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

How dare you pull the middle child into things and throw me under the bus?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

We weren't throwing you under the bus. We were using you as an example, okay? Like, all I'm saying is whatever. Respect to you, Claire, because you hold your own.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

Also, also hilarious that Aaron's, I was intimidated, yet you're the one that proactively called Claire to be like, so I have feedback.

SPEAKER_05 33:49

Like, oldest child right there. If it makes you feel better, I was scared.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

I don't want to scare you. That's not my goal. No, my favorite was I forget what we were talking about on the fam chat, but talking about an Aaron lashing or Emma, you were talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

I called it a brutal rejuvenation.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

A brutal rejuvenation. Yes. That's amazing. Yeah, that is. That was that was good. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

It really is a brutal rejuvenation. Although there was one time when I got in a really bad fight with Erin, and I almost kind of made her tear up, and I was like, oh, this is like a point for me.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

You may have a vague memory. I think you made me tear up because I was frustrated. And maybe I love you. Yeah, that's okay. You can say rude shit. You were like 20.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

That is another interesting point that again, when you dive into the rabbit hole of birth order impacts and whatnot, one theme is that often comes up is like parenting, parental impact versus sibling impact. And I feel like the common theme is always like siblings have way more of an impact than you think they do, especially coming from a big family. And Emma, I feel like to your point about the what is it, brutal rejuvenation?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Rejuvenation.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

So obviously, there's like a scary aspect of that, but also a positive spin on it. And I guess I'm curious, is it positive in your mind because it's coming from an older sibling like Aaron that isn't exactly a parent? Compare that to if mom and dad said the same thing to you. Do you think your reaction was different because you because I that was my no, that was my question. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I think mom and dad are so awesome. But I think Aaron is super blunt, and I think deep down I really take that feedback well. That was the other thing the guy said in the book. He was like, the older sibling is very aggressive. And I was like, Oh, I know somebody like that. Um and I just think that she's honest. I think the part about being an older sibling is if somebody is reaching out and sharing their maybe grievances with your behavior, it means they care about you. And if they're not, they're throwing shit to the wind. There's not much I can do with that person. And I know some people don't take that feedback well, they don't think like that's uh conducive. I think because we come from a really stubborn family, and also our parents are both very stubborn people, that's how it benefits me to each their own. And also, I feel like I had good good results from it. I was able to get help for me personally, and that was helpful. And I definitely needed I'm obviously like from everybody from my two older sisters to kick in the pants is good. Yeah, kicking the pants, and sometimes your parents aren't gonna be super honest because they are like, I feel bad and I don't know what to do. And a sibling's gonna be more honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Well, a parent's love is different than a sibling's love. Do you know what I mean? I think it's sometimes hard as a parent, I can now say that. I think it's sometimes harder to be like, okay, my kid is going through something and I want them to be happy, but what I need to do to get them to a good place is probably the thing they're not gonna like very much. And I think that the sibling perspective is a little bit different. I'd also add that I think in our family, I have the luxury of playing a certain role because again, everybody else plays different roles, like Megan, and we'll get into Joey things later when Joey's here, but like Megan gets to play the role of nurturer, and yeah, that allows me to play the role of enforcer bitch. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

H B I Cad head bitch in charge.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

But do I like the enforcer? It goes with your current vibe right now. Yeah, she's very matrix, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah, super matrix.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

But I do think that's a really good point because I think about that a lot with my own kids, and you often reflect, okay, how can I make sure they live happy, fulfilling, successful lives? And a lot of it is just teaching them to fend for themselves, and what that means for you as a parent is allowing them to be deeply uncomfortable and figuring it out on their own. And that can be a very hard position to be in as a parent. And I can't imagine what that looks like as kids get older. And I do think that's sometimes the role of a sibling to step in and tell you the hard things that your parents may be trying to get at, but also are trying to protect you in the same way. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

I feel that way too with Aaron. There will be times where I remember one time I was babysitting Jack when he was really young, and I went up to Aaron and I was like, Oh, look, Jack had a really bad, like, explosive situation like in his diaper. Like, I'm not really, I don't really know how to change a diaper. And she goes, Yeah, you do. Like, just change the diaper. It's to be like, here's the baby. And I was like, That's kind of fucked up.

SPEAKER_05 38:42

No, but it was I think that's a younger sibling ism that no offense, Emma, is different between you and I. I think I have the older sibling aspect where and I don't know if this is influenced from my older siblings, like Aaron and Megan. I feel like I have more of a in some ways figure it out mentality, and you are true little sister Coral. If you and I are going on a trip together, you're following the lead.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

You're or I'm always I'm always sending you itineraries when you go to Paris. Yeah, you places to go.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

You've sent me places to go, but it's different than executing. I feel like you you are a little sister, naturally, you default to the one in front of you or someone ahead of you. It was like a different family. It's like I was like, all right, she's not here. I left you hanging.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

I was reflecting on this. I don't think that birth order shaped me as a person because of all the reasons we discussed. And I was trying to reflect on this earlier. I was like, okay, who did it impact the most? And I think Emma, it probably impacted you more than others because you had five older siblings, five people to give their opinions, two of which were more like mother figures to you. You are fully the youngest child, where I am not fully the oldest child because I think there were a lot of other people playing that role. And so good, bad, indifferent, whatever, I think it's just a fact.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

I feel like that's definitely the typical thing. So I feel like I relate to Belle and Charlie in that sense, the youngest children. But I feel like it can be very intimidating, especially when you come from like a family of very strong-willed people. I also feel like whenever I'm like cleaning my apartment and it's messy, I feel like I have a sibling in the back of my head being like, clean your damn room. And then it's probably in there. And it's always in there, and then also too, with I think with school and like the life I want to live for myself, I have that example of my sibling. And then also too, with like you think about with a boyfriend in the future. I'm like, oh, is like my sibling gonna like them? If my sibling doesn't like them, oh you're literally bye. There's the door. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I think I think that's really real. And I think a lot of people experience that if you're in either a close family or a larger family where you feel pressure for like your siblings to whoever you're dating, because you don't want to screw up the dynamic. And I feel like that's like an added pressure that people don't need. Because again, for us, I think if you're happy, we're happy. But I totally understand.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, but I think that's real, and I just think comparison is real for whether it's a friend group or a sibling group. You know what I mean? I think it's hard. It's funny. I feel like you guys always talk about comparison up, where you're like, okay, I'm the youngest, and I'm gonna compare myself to my older siblings, which is only natural, but I even compare myself to you guys. I think that there's always a little bit of an inherent pressure there. I feel like what are you comparing yourself to us against? I'm trying to think of examples.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Like, give me an example.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah. I'll believe it. But you were naive. You were a ghosty. I remember being like,

Sibling Benchmarking

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Megan is getting married and having kids before I am, and I didn't feel like threatened by it, but I was like, oh, like she figured this out sooner than I did. Truly. Oh, see, I had the opportunity. Oh, but I had a kid yet. You didn't get married before me or have a kid before me, but like you started. I remember you were very gracious about how you handled this, but I had a hard time getting pregnant with HUD, which I think you guys knew. And to a point where it was almost like in the grand scheme of things, it was not bad, but it was getting to a point where it was like, okay, am I gonna need to have IVF? And Megan got pregnant with James before I got pregnant with HUD. And I remember not that I wasn't happy for you guys, but I was like upset because I was having such a what's wrong with me, right? Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, my younger sister's having your second kid before I'm having my second kid. And again, like that sounds like weird and competitive, but my point is that I do think I know benchmarking is more pronounced when you're doing it with your older siblings, but it does exist with your younger siblings too.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Oh, I think in terms of capacity, I'm like, oh, if so-and-so can, if Erin can take on all this stuff, I can absolutely do this. But every kid is or every person is different, and that's just like a fact of life. But I do think the benchmarking thing is like just a natural thing, whether it's in friends or in siblings. And you know what?

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Comparison is the thief of joy.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

You know what? I told myself that when I was single and trying to find a husband. I was like, single trial. I I truly had to actively tell myself this so that I wouldn't be like depressed because I had two older sisters with as much as it pains me to say this, attractive husbands. Yeah, but uh yeah, as soon as I was like, no one's gonna care, they're just gonna care if they're a good person and everyone gets along with them, then it was easier. But also, Meg, too. Like I I've definitely benchmarked myself against you guys for the age I got married. But I think the one thing I benefited from is that we entered our society entered a new phase where it was way more common for people to have. kids later or get married later and then I was like oh I actually don't want to speed this up I want to like yeah enjoy my life enjoy my life as long as I possibly so I feel like I kind of benefited from that shift in society but it was earlier on like definitely a thought of mine well I think society has unfortunately shifted back I don't think that's true I think there's like a small subgroup but I think generally speaking doesn't feel small I think think about think about all the women getting pregnant like Sienna Miller got pregnant at 43 isn't Natalie Portman pregnant and she's like 45 it's this kind of like you I hear what you're saying Claire it's the trad wife kind of movement but then on the other side of it is like these amazing accomplished women who have chosen to get pregnant later in life because they're working on their careers and other things. Yeah if you want to be a young mom that's fantastic but for me personally I was like this feels like a lot of responsibility to take on very early therefore I don't feel as guilty waiting because I know that's not as a weird thing to do anymore.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

You require more towel time precisely I was not ready to have kids at 28 or whatever but I have a couple friends that had kids in like their late 20s and sometimes I am a little bit envious of them. But I also think that would have never been an option for me. I was still figuring out my career and I needed to have that kind of sorted before I even started to consider having children. So agree I think everybody's journey is different but when you're on that path it's very hard to not compare yourself to others whether it's friends, family, whatever.

Greater Impact: Parents or Siblings?

SPEAKER_02 45:43

I would be so curious to hear if people from smaller families three and below feel that siblings impact them sibling dynamics impact them more than like their parents influence.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

I think it just depends on the family frankly yeah the closeness of them I'm sure and the involvement of the parents I think everybody's different. But I will say in terms I don't know in terms of how much siblings impact each other but I feel that birth order at least in terms of my own family now to me it seems way more prominent in a family of three versus a family of six or a family of four even a family of five I think three is the number where it is very distinct and I'm super cognizant of it with my own kids.

SPEAKER_05 46:26

Yeah yeah there's a true middle oldest and youngest truly and it is like in my family the stereotypes are playing out like two and two yeah I think also so true you can have your sibling experiences like I I agree Megan that I think sibling experiences do sometimes and can shape you more than your parental experience but I also think we're all living individual lives outside of that so it's also the personal experiences that we're going through that shape us. I think what kind of team you have around you to help you through different things definitely can make a difference. But I think it's a perfect storm of many different things.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Back to the parent thing I feel like a prime example of sibling impact that really shaped who I was like I know Emma you said earlier everyone is work ethic, whatever. But I can't confidently say that if I was like an only child, I honestly don't know if I would be as motivated as I am when I'm surrounded by my siblings. I think that a lot of the reason I attribute myself to being motivated and wanting to work hard is because I'm surrounded by my siblings that do work hard. And I feel like because I see them more as my peers versus my parents if they're like you need to work hard and do well in school I'm like well of course you have to say that but your siblings who have gone through it before and can relate to you more I remember when you and Aaron would give me that kind of advice when job interviewing and you have to have an internship at this XYZ age I would listen more and I'd be more receptive to it because I was like okay you guys just went through this a few years ago so you probably know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

But don't you also think it was helpful that I was like a reformed disaster and I could say here are the implications of what happens if you don't do these things you yeah you also gave me you blazed a trail.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

You gave me a trailblazer phone call in college as well. Aaron and Toby both called me Aaron was like if you do not make Dean's list on your first semester of college it will be a regret that haunts you for the rest of your life and then Toby called me like an hour later and was like hey just so you know I completely back everything your sister said I was like is she holding a gun to your head oh it's because we both like failed out of college first semester freshman year and it fucked our GPAs. And I'm so happy you did give me that advice because it's so hard to move your GPA at all so I can't imagine like having that.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Yeah Aaron definitely read me that riot act before going to school if she was I was gonna say the freshman 15 and I gave you like a complex yeah because she lived at the library and lost 15 pounds because she wasn't part of she like was GTL every day Jim literally GTL time. Aaron's warning to me was like it was like three things. One don't gain the freshman 15 two make sure you get a good GPA right out of the gate. And three don't ever touch the froyo machine at school because once you pop the fun don't stop and you just need to never go near it.

SPEAKER_05 49:39

I have a core memory again I don't know why so this is making really I'm talking about Toby so much and it's no you're not it's like in fun funny ways whatever God forbid you talk about your husband your who's been your whosband come on freshman year of college Toby and I were not in a relationship we were just friends and I remember he was on the lacrosse team and I was like walking to the Froyo machine in sweatpants and he like called me out in front of the whole team being like can you like get it together you look like shit and I was like what a no he didn't that's so typical Toby of course he did so typical and it's so errant what did he say do you have like exact just like he's want to wear normal pants like something like that.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

I was wearing my juicy couture sweatsuit okay oh my god why did I never get that he just was not recognizing your game he was not recognizing my greatness but anyway I do think that sometimes not leading by example can be impactful. I think it's totally true.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

What not to do what not to do um I was just saying one more area that I remember being very burned in my brain as like older siblings and rules and things they taught me was how to act in a relationship.

Relationship Advice Passed Down

SPEAKER_04 51:00

I will never forget being in college and I was in a relationship and it was a little rocky and I called Aaron and Megan on a conference call to be like what do I do? I'm so upset and literally both of them were like this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna text him right now you're gonna break up with him you're not gonna speak to him for two weeks you're gonna go home for Thanksgiving and then you're gonna come back and then he's gonna knock on your door and grovel at your feet and I was like are you sure that feels really drastic and they're like nope do it and I was like okay I'll do it I did it all of the things that you guys said happened.

SPEAKER_05 51:36

It's they wrote the playbook. I'll never forget so it made it easy to follow because they're clearly doing something right so I'll

Siblings Covering for You

SPEAKER_05 51:45

never forget this summer I was like a senior in high school going into college and my relationship at the time was falling to pieces and I was for sure I was getting cheated on and I'll never forget being in the yard in Nantucket and Megan nosy little Megan who always has like her ear press against something and Megan is literally that meme of Kim Kardashian like coming out behind the bush because she's listening. Megan's bathroom faced where I was at in the yard after she had come down I looked up she had cracked the window where I had been on the phone like fighting with my boyfriend and accusing him of whatever he was doing. I'm still on the phone Megan comes running down I'll never forget she was in this orange like Ralph Lauren flowy top and white shorts yes that of course you do and white shorts and she was like if you smell a rat he's a rat. Cut him off okay was she like this was she like cut him off it was I'll never forget it. And it was I'm pretty sure I remember I laughed because it was so funny but so real.

SPEAKER_04 52:58

I was like oh my god you're so right and that stuff like that stuff has a serious impact because then it shapes how you act in every future relationship and yeah I remember those moments vividly because I feel like from then on out I acted a certain way in relationships because of it.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yeah because I always had Aaron and Megan in my ear being like do this do that and I was like okay I'll try Aaron's really good at spitting game from the sidelines. Like I think when James and I broke up at one point but you were definitely there being like I think I just threatened him gun emoji bomb emoji. You definitely threatened him but in the fall you're like do not respond and I was like wait I'm just like I think I can set a text do not respond.

SPEAKER_05 53:42

You were very prescriptive yeah I think Aaron might have been a co-author on the book Why Men Love Bitches I never read that as a good so this was an ancient text that I actually remember circulated about my time in high school middle school and basically just it's a controversial book I think now but it's like men want women who like it's over playing how relationships should play out I think but I remember telling Erin about it and she's I could have told you all of that and it was true though it was like do the things like don't respond play hard to get a novel to me as like a freshman in high school but yeah it was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

I like to say I do think I'm good at giving advice or I was good at giving the advice when that was relevant in our lives but I wasn't always good at following it I could have had better game but coulda woulda shoulda that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

I think it I think it worked out for you worked out for you.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

It worked out for you and at least you distribute it to the rest of us. Yeah I do what I can thank you for your list.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

They made many mistakes so you guys didn't have to make too many mistakes you and Megan honestly did a very good like good cop bad cop duo growing up I wouldn't let's be honest exactly I don't think that's true now but I think that was very much so your pitch growing up but but I think I played that role more because it's like I want to be the devil yeah you want to be the angel you're the angel what role did you get stuck in that you didn't choose you get stuck in me I don't want to be the angel but you are the angel you're like a mix you're like half blood no you but you're remember we discussed this you're pure of heart you're pure so boring despite Aaron you are an angel you are an angel all the way no no I think I became an angel because Aaron over being such a bitch to mom and dad and I was like okay I gotta follow the rules because mom and dad are too stressed.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

I'm so sorry it's okay it's okay but it turned out okay I vividly remember making mom cry my first day of NCDS oh yeah like it's like a core memory I'm not proud of it what did you do what did you do I was irate that I had to go to this new all girls school I did not want to go you wanted to go to school with boys no I wanted to stay at the school I was at with boys and my friends and mom had just had Claire Claire she was driving me to school two days after she had you this poor woman oh my god and I was so mean to her in the car I was 12 Aaron but let me say that Aaron paid me back big time for why I did try to act responsible and like the angel to counter her behavior she did always kind of fight the battles with mom and dad for me so I could go to the parties I wanted and do what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Also I made you look good all the time. Yes you did the your entire closet a hundred percent I didn't not because of that I mean because of my behavior you looked great compared to me oh yeah did I get in trouble I no not once not a one time actually you guys I almost got arrested in high school at a party in summer the cotton we passed out in the back tab from drinking too much I did cover for your ass oh yeah you did cover my ass that was a bad day I didn't receive the same treatment from Emma but that's okay Aaron did cover my ass you and Teddy seabolds big time yeah I Joe did not cover for me.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

No he was too busy trying to cover for himself Joey never covered for you cat the one time that I attempted to sneak out and I didn't because I had an older brother that was constantly getting in trouble. So I was so afraid of the consequences the one time I snuck out it was like eighth grade kid you not went to the end of the driveway we are walking back and we met two boys on bicycles we're walking back into the house in the backyard and you know how it's like the deck up top and then the basement doors at the bottom walking and I'll vividly remember turning around to my friends being like we're back we did it I look up at dad and he's at the top of the steps with his hands crossed looking down and us he's like where have you been I'm like I think I peed my pants a little I was so scared yeah sorry he proceeds to drive every single one of my friends there was like four of us one lived in Newton one lived in Milton one lived in Winchester. Mom and dad drove every single one of them home that night it was 1130. I was like can't you just deal with this tomorrow and they drove them all home. So they were very I didn't get any second chances it was just these are the immediate consequences and you have to deal with them. I didn't get to go to Joanna Chase's yacht birthday party because of it. It was such bullshit and so for me I think they were just their um their fuse was so short because of Joey so sorry that with me I just got immediate consequences so I never tried to test the bounds I just was like it's not worth it. You guys all sucked at sneaking out too I'm sorry none of you that is not true I snuck out Joey gave me away that night that's the whole thing he called mom and dad to be like can I have friend sleepover and mom was like no you can't because Kat already has friend sleeping over and he was like just ask her she's in the basement and I meanwhile was texting Joey being like you idiot I'm not in the basement I snuck out and then he calls mom back and is like oh sorry don't you don't have to ask her fine just kidding and I'm like obviously now mom is super suspicious goes downstairs and I'm not there. So thanks Joey for screwing up my chances of ever sneaking out in high school that's your trauma that's my trauma I was good at sneaking out mom and dad never caught me sneaking out I thought there was one time they were asleep drunk and I thought someone was coming in the house.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

No no that wasn't sneaking out I had been at a party which I know you were coming back she was sneaking in and I was watching a lot of the first 48 so I thought like there was like an intruder coming in the house and I was like wait mom are you downstairs like where are you and she's no and it was Claire and she was like vomiting on the toilet she was like so hungover I felt so bad. And then there was another time where I was out there in these streets like drinking and Claire was like mom was like so why is the vodka like half gone and you didn't do the water trick where you put the water in the vodka whatever it is and it was like half done and you were like oh yeah Emma and I were like drinking I'm like I don't think that was me in there you said don't use yes when in doubt blame it on Joey that's what I always did.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:40

I do not recall when in doubt well that was a sure that was a safe fallback plan for you because like that was obviously Joey. Like but I think it is funny like after Aaron and after Joey follow like two very rule follower centric people.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

You guys are fun I can have I have fun though cat's fun cat's got more flair than me but I'm fun sometimes I think it's a sign of the different stages of life yeah I also inherited that directly from mom. She does not like breaking rules and I align with that okay like this is so TMI. Okay oh god trigger warning but sometimes like lately I feel like I smell like my BO is worse than it used to be I've had that experience me too I've never once had that experience I think it's one of those body resetting things every seven years because I started experiencing it two years ago. No and Claire remember I talk about it when we're working out with Kath. I'm always like shoot I forgot to put on deodorant I used to never have to and now I do because I smell I think that's just because I was using natural deodorant too much.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

I started using the salt don't use natural and I'm like it doesn't work and I really want to aluminum I know do you guys follow what's her name things I bought and liked I love her.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

Yes Tibble of course okay no but she posted the Donna Karen cashmere mist deodorant I'm going back to that I am going back to that I have that one that thing is pure aluminum toxins but it works so well and you smell delicious. Can I tell I actually hate you for whatever you sent us the other night that was like here are the three things my dad the chick that was like my dad doesn't let me keep in the house and it was like you can't wear Lululemon because it has PFAS in it and you can't use tampons. Oh my god mid period I literally was like on chat GPT I didn't see that texting the label of the tampon box and I was freaking out because I'm like I said that tampacks have an unnecessary amount of lead in them just like the cora tampons those are like the organic ones I think it kills society to invest in quality tampons for women apparently I really want to be the person that eliminates like all the plastics from my life but I just am overwhelmed by how much they exist everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:59

I'm like where do I even start where do I even begin I'm already probably full of microplastics I put like plastic things on my eyes every day and then plastic things in my eyelids so I can see like context see I'm fixated on it right now with my kids and I'm trying to be normal about it which I think I generally am but it's harder well wait so getting back to what I answered for myself

Familial Role You Got Stuck With

SPEAKER_04 1:03:22

what role do you guys think that you were stuck with that you didn't choose in relation to birth order and dynamic the butler hey can I give you five dollars will you massage me you guys probably owe me five hundred million years from that was I don't think I what are you talking about I never did that cat what the little favors like that you asked your siblings there was a point in time before like I came into consciousness Claire would be like Emma you have to go get me my toy upstairs or I'm counting down from five more she learned that from because she did that with Kat and so I learned I did this with Claire and Emma and I'd be sitting on the couch I was like guys make me a sandwich and and I would be like if you don't you're gonna get in trouble mom and dad are gonna yell at you and I'd immediately I'd count down from five and they'd scuttle away into the kitchen and make my sandwich and the day that I knew that they grew up is when they were like mom and dad aren't coming I was like fuck my life I have to make my own sandwiches okay so Emma's the butler what are you cat oh I don't know maybe like the forgotten one because I feel like I will load like you wouldn't choose that yeah my therapist actually told me this she was like I'm very outspoken with my friends and she's it's because you play a certain role in your family as the middle child where you get overshadowed and people talk louder than you so you overcompensate in your friendships and I was like oh wow I never thought about it like that so yeah I would say contracts that makes sense that okay Claire I feel like I don't really have a set role I feel like you're a good listener I actually feel yeah maybe it's my stubbornness I think a twist on that it's or maybe a role that you are having trouble breaking out from is being seen as like the especially my teen years like that was when my aggression really was not okay in high school in college and I think I've really made strides but it's so cemented in people's brains that even when I'm talking what I think is normally it's like your tone you're aggressive I'm just trying to like I'm just trying to break free of these shackles like she wants to be a bad

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

No, the responsible one. I don't always want to be the responsible. Fashion school. Literally. Oh my god. No, I was the one who was like making chore charts for everyone else.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

Oh, please. I loved every second of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:17

No, and then it was either Joey or Kat being like, all right, FedEx.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

Oh, that was me. That was so worth it. Megan or Kat was calling Megan FedEx.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:26

I know that was even worse. I'm like, my fucking younger sibling is saying younger sibling.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:32

I was like, all right, FedEx. Get out of here. We gotta bring that back. Yeah, we gotta bring it back. She provides the dungeon.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:44

And they call the annoying sibling back.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

I was they want to ship him back wherever he came from. I was bossing everyone around and be like, do your chores. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

Were you a snitch?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

No, I wasn't a snitch. No, Megan is the ultimate delegator.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

Megan is the alternate, ultimate delegator.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

Still the ultimate delegator. Yeah. Yep. That's a good role. Aaron, what about from Aaron? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

I don't know. I think like I got to do whatever I wanted, if I'm being completely honest.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

So you have none of that eldest. But I think you're daughter trauma.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

The dictator, kind of. Yeah, but no one forced that on me. I just decided that it was a fit for my personality. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. No, I true. I think to take it all back to the beginning, what prompted this conversation was this whole eldest daughter trauma thing that keeps circulating. I don't have any of it. I think I have the least birth order trauma. And if anything, whenever I think about what my most valuable attributes are today, I oftentimes really tie it back to growing up in a big family and being the oldest in a big family. I think it only served me personally. And so I was not assigned a role in the way that you were.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:59

I think no, I like that we were assigned role, but I actually think my role might have been like mediator. I do feel like that came into play. I think you are a mediator, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:09

Yeah. You don't like conflict. No, no, you don't like conflict.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

And that's very middle child of me. Yeah, you're for sure the peacekeeper. But it's ironic because you're confrontational, but you don't like conflict. Huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:23

Which I don't know if is great, but yeah, just trying to keep everyone on their toes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

You never know what's around the corner. I get Joey in the mix on this. We're gonna have a whole deep dive with him next. Oh my god, I can't wait to get his two of his one-liners. I can't wait to hear what he's gonna say. Oh my god. It's gonna be good. Okay, before we go,

TBLs (Trying, Buying, Loving)

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

should we do our TBLs?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Okay, so my TBLs made me realize when I was thinking about what they were, I realized that I need to shop more. I just want everybody to know that. I shop more stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

No, I don't shop. I need to shop more. Wait, why do you need to shop more? As Claire was saying last week, I need to know more. No, I'm trying to shop more. I'm just gonna say that.

unknown 1:09:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

Do you still have a big bag collection? It's not very good because it hasn't been updated. My point is that in terms of buying, I haven't bought anything that good, but I am gonna try and buy those Suzy Kondo pants you sent me, Megan, because I thought those looked very cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

It was so funny when we were talking about juicy couture earlier in the conversation. Susie Kondo is like the modern day mom's juicy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

So I'm gonna get those. And then I actually just received all of these at Mary Mary, the party supply company for kids. Yeah. So cute. I just got a bunch of stuff for those. So cute. Little birthday party tomorrow. So very cute. And then what I'm loving, okay. I started reading Fame Sick by Lena Dunham, which is not a book I would have thought I would ever read because Lena Dunham, frankly, always bothered me. But then I listened to her New York Times interview, and I thought it was really good. It was such a moment in time when she was popular. It defined my postcard. Anyway, so that is very good. I'll let you know how it wraps up. But so far, I she's a great writer, obviously. She's very talented. So I'm reading that and then trying, I'm still trying and failing at being an early riser. I'm really trying to wake up. I set my alarm every morning at 5:30. And every morning I put it on do not disturb and go back to bed until about 6 15, 6 30. So I'm really trying to be better about getting up earlier so that I can have some time before my kids arise, but I'm failing at it.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:40

So you can pray to constant battle.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

No, just so I can work out or drink a cup of coffee before I start getting harassed.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:47

Yeah, that's valid.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

Can I just say something quickly on that note? Because I was thinking about it this morning. I'm like in a deep slumber and I start to feel like breath on my face. And little James had come up to the side of the bed and he's just staring at me. He's just staring and breathing on me. Wait, what time? Like 5 45. And I should have just gotten up and worked out. I don't know why I didn't. But to wake up like that and have someone just quietly breathing your face is really, it's really a lot. It's a lot to learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

It's jarring. That's scary. That would be scary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

All right, Claire, what about you?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:24

Oh, for me this week. Really trying to find a spring jacket. Totally. It is so hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:31

I agree.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:32

So I think it's been an unseasonably cold spring. True. And I'm struggling so hard at finding a transitional jacket.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

Try dish. I have a recommendation. Please. Barber has very cute stuff. Barber's having a moment. Really? Very good. I'm telling you, you should look. They're all sold out. So you have to put yourself on a waiting list.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

But they're all these pastel cropped barn jackets. That's what I want. Very cute. Go on barber after this. Shit. Also, dish Claire.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:02

True. I think they have a barber. Dish really does have great stuff, Kate. Someone sent me something today, and I've never heard of this brand.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

That was my buying last week. I got a cute shortened trench. Trench. Cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

Okay, so Claire, after this, go find a cute jacket. So what are you trying to buy? What are you loving?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:20

I guess that's my trying and buying. Another thing I'm actually buying is I feel like there's so much. This is the point of the year where summer's obviously coming up. I feel like I'm booking so much travel. Yeah. And it's really upsetting. So I would love to not be buying that, but I am. And my loving, um my god, I'm totally having a brain frame. Oh, my loving, and I sent a text to our like sorry, Aaron, our New York City chat. And sorry. This is so random, but the movie Chumanji with my God. Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart and Twain the Rock Johnson is so funny. It was one of those movies where I was like, I wish Aaron was here watching this with me. Because it's so stupid, but so funny. Is it like an Aaron? Yes. It's on Netflix, and I'd seen it before, I think once on a plane or something. And I saw that it just got added to Netflix, so I rewatched it and I was just cracking up. Should we watch it this weekend? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

I watched it last night.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:37

You will have to do a rewatch because I texted Charlotte Child also was like, okay, I need to lock into this Jumanji movie. Random. I'm trying to get back into funny movies, so I love that. Yeah. Okay. All right, Kat.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

Trying no net new hobbies this week because one is enough. I'm continuing on my needle pointing journey. I was very close to calling Charlotte yesterday because I was watching a how-to video, and it's kind of hard in the beginning to follow, but I finally got the hang of it and I've started and it's looking kind of good. I'm so proud of you. Buying uh Reupped My Bell shampoo, which I've been on the wait list for that shit for two months. I don't know what's happening, but wow, for some reason, it smells really delicious and it's supposedly healthy. Loving Claire, those frickin' crack cocaine gummy jellies that you sent me. Joyride or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

Oh do they hurt your stomach though? Are they like the low-cal ones that hurt your stomach?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:45

They're high fiber. Yeah, like definitely not great feeling, but they're so delicious. They're addicting.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:52

They're so good, and you can eat the whole bag for really not that many calories.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

Who cares about calories? They're just good. It's like sweet and delicious. Totally. You know, I bought them. So I love that. I've got a lot. Okay, Emma. Tried the gluten-free cheeses. They had corn in them, did not bode well with my stomach. So that was unsuccessful. I just recently purchased these pants from Maison Hotel. Okay. Is that the brand? Oh, I think I've heard of that. I think I think Aaron follows them on Instagram myself. Oh, okay. So I was like, this is approved. Um, and then there are these really cool pants and they're floral, and they kind of remind me of the jacket from the Ralph Lawrence Spring Summer 2001 show. And so I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:39

Of course, he would know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Yep. So that's my buying. They haven't come in the mail. And then my loving magazine. Is it Petson? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Oh my god. Wait, the Wonderland. Emma, what is it? It's the Wonderland magazine.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:54

Wonderland magazine. You try to get a magazine with those two on it. You can't. The pre-order sells out in literally seven seconds flat. It's crazy. That's crazy. I just love them.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:04

So does that serve as like a coffee table book for you? These magazines? Um I have a lot of magazine.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:10

Or do you like sleep with it at night? I feel like that'd be a little bit creepy. I just, they're my coffee table books. I do go back and forth. I like to switch that up with the Matt Damon Ban Affleck interview one.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

What about the interview one with Connor Story? That was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

Oh, I don't think he was the cover. I think he was just.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

What's the one of him with the lobster? Was he not the cover? That's V magazine. Oh god, I can't keep them all straight. Shoot, shoot.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:38

Okay, my trying. I am trying to read one book and finish it before starting another. If you look at my Audible or my Kindle, it's a bunch of like how do you have ADD. I think ADD is still that I find that so crazy. You know, it's because I want to absorb so much information. So I hear about a book and I automatically buy it. And I'm like, oh, gotta start it. And then I hear about something else, and then I want to start that. And so unless it is something that really captures my attention right away, I bounce around. So it's a horrible trait, and I'm trying to fix that. What I am buying, I actually just bought these on the walk home. I bought these. They're called flat. Are those Tivas? Floza. No, they're like this amazing Italian brand. Wait, can you send me the link after? Yeah, they're copy. Yeah, they're actually so comfortable and so cute. And I have gross feet. Wait, do they run true to size? They true to size, I will say. How do you pronounce this? F-L-O-W-Z-E. Floza? Floza? Floozy. It's Italian. I don't know. But, anyways, these are them. They are have it goes on the whole rope theme. So they come in navy and red. And so I got the red. I think they're really cute and a lot of soul support, which is great. Uh, and then loving my. I just got this Maria McManus satin jacket, which I wasn't planning on purchasing, but I went to a trunk show with a friend. And you know how you have that friend who's just, oh, you gotta get it. You gotta get it. She convinced me. And I it was she has very great taste. So I'm very glad I purchased it. It's one of those very cool, unique pieces that you can wear in every season. So it was a good purchase. Good investment piece. Good one. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

And that's the tape. And that's the tape. Yeah. Let me tell you, my left eye's swelling. So I feel ice. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:34

I'm gonna do some work on this tonight about like how to speed up your healing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

I just everyone, can you laser your bruises? I'm like, I don't fucking know. I don't have the time to figure that out. Let's just let the body heal. Let's let the body heal. Okay, I have to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:47

I'm having a hot flash.

unknown 1:18:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:50

Goodbye. All right. Love you. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

Love you. Bye. Bye. Bye.