Future of Work

Episode 1: Our people are choosing bread and butter

• Andile • Season 1 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 57:16

Our host, Sima Fiyo, sits down with Lelethu Mahambehlala, a performance poet from Gqeberha, for a powerful conversation on navigating digital life as a visually impaired creative.

Together, they explore the realities of access in the Eastern Cape, unpacking how broader social and economic conditions shape the digital landscape. What unfolds is an honest, funny, and deeply important exchange, one that feels less like an interview and more like listening in on two friends.

🎙 Hosted and recorded by Sima Fiyo
✍🏾 Scripted and edited by Andile Msomi
🔊 Sound design by Andile Msomi

Listen to the full episode on Buzzsprout and SoundCloud.

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Future of Work: @fow_podcast
Sima Fiyo: @simafiyo

Follow Lelethu on Facebook:
Lelethu PoeticSoul KaMoses

Thank you for listening! 

SPEAKER_00

Hi, um in Blue Water Bay chilling with Sleza. Sleza. We're about to have a really cool conversation. We're gonna be learning, we're gonna get to know her. And it's gonna be a vibe. Say hi so that we can check that my mic is working.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So hi. What did you have for breakfast? What did I have for breakfast? I didn't have breakfast. I didn't even have tea today. I only had my first cup of tea now when I got back. Are you a tea girl? Yes, I'm a big tea girl. Oh wow. Even now I feel like mint tea, but we don't have in the house. I love tea.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. Zang go no punga. I'm not a coffee girl, but I'm a tea girl. Okay, that's cool. Yeah. For lunch?

SPEAKER_01

Lunch? I had KFC because I went to Walmart Park. On our way out. Because I was desperately hungry. Did you guys work there? No. No, no, no, no. It was a drive-by. It was a drive-through, yeah. Oh drive-by sounds like a shooting.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yes, it does. Oh, it does. Oh, it does. You know what I mean? Hey, KFC drive-fi is diabolical. In fact, kwa mnna manbit series before they take this mic away from me. I welcome you to the Future of Work podcast. This right here is a youth-led storytelling series exploring digital lives in South Africa. Ikamalangus, and I am from Atkabecha. For our very first episode, I'm joined by someone who is dear to me, someone who I draw so much inspiration from. In this episode, she joins us to share some childhood memories as we dive deep into the digital landscape of the Eastern Cape. We explore the future of work in a province often defined by its marginalization. But as you'll hear, the conversation always returns to the core of digital work and what it truly means to live and work in the Eastern Cape today. It's funny, raw, and intimate. Come be a fly on the wall as we unpack what it means to be a young person navigating life, work, and possibility. I am super excited because I'm sitting alongside someone absolutely incredible. Welcome to the Future of Word podcast. Thank you. How are you feeling? I'm feeling okay. I'm feeling fly. No. I'm looking at your hair and I'm so jealous. I'm just chilling and I'm feeling chilled. No. I just want to finish to say I'm feeling jealous because I cut my hair. Why? Okay, I cut my hair as well, remember? But now your fro's growing, but then your fro is gonna come back. Yes. I'd love for you to tell us who you are, where you're from, and what you do.

SPEAKER_01

So I am Lily Chumambishala. Well, my name is Lele Chumambishala, but I am poetic soul. My dad always said there's a difference between the two, between what your name is and who you say you are. Yeah. Because your name is what was given to you. So it's outside of you, but who you call yourself is really important.

SPEAKER_00

I love that.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, my name is Lele Toumam Bishala, and um, I am poetic soul. I'm a performance poet primarily. Everything else that I do, you know, is born from the fact that I'm a performance poet. I've always loved sharing my view of life in words, others do it in song, others do it in visual art, but I prefer to do it in words. I am from Ekabecha. I was born in Tanzani.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I was born in Tanzani, relocated from 12 to 13, then moved to East Strand in Joburg. I went on to David um. And then we relocated to Kabeka. Lived in Blood all my life. Or all my Kabecha life. And I I I did my high school education, a PSN high school, grade school, and then I studied law at NMU. And then I served my articles for a short stint at the state attorney, but before that I was with the Human Rights Commission, then I went to state attorney, then I didn't like it much, and then I decided to pursue my career in the creative space full-time.

SPEAKER_00

No wonder you're so great at what you do. Okay, before you even like unabek London. Because I I believe your left side of the brain is as dominant as the right.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's so true. Also given the fact that I am an Aquarian. Yeah. Ruled by two very different signs, which is Uranus and Saturn. So Uranus is the hippie of the space, and Saturn is the more formal, structured.

SPEAKER_00

So, how long have you been in Gabeka for?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I've been here since must have been 93. My parents voted here. The first national election. Yeah, we got here 93 December, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't even born yet. I wasn't even a thought. We were one of the first black families to move into Bloodabay at the time. And I believe one of the first black people who go to Pearson. You know. I understood. There were already, there were already some, some, some of our seniors who were at Pearson.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, something you'll call my needs. Now I'd love for you to tell me what inspired you to start and to go into the the creative space and what continues to inspire the work that you do.

SPEAKER_01

That's always such a difficult question because when you are moved to do something, I don't think you are aware what this is what's inspiring me to do it. But then you have to look back every time when they ask you that question, what was it? Because I remember myself just liking attention. My dad will always push me to do things, to explore and and and and to be the brightest spark even in the classroom. So I I seem to remember back in those days, give Bantu education. There used to be that culture of a teacher coming into the classroom and then against the wall, and then we do it two times, two is four, two times, three is six, two times, you know, and we would you know go on and recite that. And I think one, that um, you know, encouraged immemory that's always stimulated. So you're always remembering things. Number two, when it came to reading storytelling, because those are the times where you get a moment to stand in front of the class and read something. I remember that as one of the first experiences of people saying you do this really well. Later, when I go to high school and we do this project for English, um, we had this green book, um, it was an A5 book called Poetry Matters. And we were meant to submit that by you know the end of the second term, I believe, with having done all types of poems, epitaphs, um, you know, what what is the other one? All these styles, sonnets. You must have written each style of of poem in this thing. I did really well in that. However, I failed standard six. But that was my favorite thing to have done.

SPEAKER_00

Now, when you hear the term digital work, what comes to mind and what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_01

For me, digital work, it it speaks to an alternative way of doing things. It speaks to, you know, evolution, newness in in our approach to things. Um I'm thinking now, some people who work at call centers, I mean I've got a friend who works at a call center, half the time she's at home. You know what I mean? Working virtually. She doesn't need to be in an office. And that's what digital work means to me, that there's a a a new world all together that somehow connects all of it. It makes it easier for us to be a connected people.

SPEAKER_00

And now for you, what inspired you to continue? I'm gonna say continue because I know that you were not born visually impaired. So I believe even before you lost your site, you were on social media, for example. So why did you continue to be on spaces like social media? Yeah, and digital platforms as a visually impaired person.

SPEAKER_01

I think also I lose my sight in 2013. I've had a Facebook account since what? 2007, 2008, somewhere there. So I was probably off it for a very short while um when I lost my sight, but not off off because I would have somebody just read to me. It it it seemed like a necessary part of my life to stay connected with people, right? So when I was able to now, you know, use my phone and then and I went back because this is where I connect with my people. I had an audience of people that were following my work that were on Facebook at that time. So it it was a very necessary part of the work that I do because the work that I do is about connection, you know. And at that time it was not a matter of I need to have so many followers, I need to have um so much engagement and all of that. You know, it had nothing to do with that, it had nothing to do with I need to have an angle. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

It was just about being visible, it was just about being visible, or even being active, because visibility is a good thing that you're constantly posting.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes, yeah. It was just about being active, being what I built my brand to be. It was a humane brand. Yeah, it was it was it was an accessible brand. It's the kind of brand that when you go to my show, I will call you by name. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I I did my marketing on platforms like Facebook, like WhatsApp, mix it at the time, you know. And and and because I used such platforms, I was able to relate with my people. So I always say, even with the team that I work with, the Poetic Soul brand is a relatable brand. People need to always feel like they know me. Yeah. You know, they that's that's what I try to do. So being on Facebook as Poetic Soul for me was sort of necessary because I could not figure out another way to be able to communicate with my people. Others would have seen it on on when I was performing at a corporate gig that hey, something is weird, she seems to have lost a sight. But now I haven't said anything to anyone. You know? And being on Facebook was a way not for me to announce that I've lost my sight because I didn't. But it was a way for me to say, Hey, proof of life, I'm still out here, you know, don't be scared, I'm still here. Though I knew that there were questions around it, and then and being able to say to people, hey, I'm poetry soul, I'm blind, came much later after I had lost my sight. Yeah, but for for that time when I went back, it was for me to make sure that that life continues. I love that. So, what tools are you currently using to help you in your journey? Uh oh, being blind is is um one, it's very expensive. One it it is really, really expensive. Two, um I think there are more assistive devices to create a livable life for blind people today than ever before. So I mean, the simplest thing I would say, my phone is an assistive device. Yeah, you know, whereas before phones were just communication devices. But for me, it's an assistive device because I'm able to, you know, yes, send communication. I'm able to read my documents, I'm able to respond to my emails, so I can I can run office just from phone. You know what I'm saying? So it's assisted me there. I can read my books there, um, the audiobooks. Um so that's a huge assistive device. The the screen readers on computers are assistive devices. So technology is a big part of how we do life. You know, currently I think if people can afford it, I'm also looking to it. Everybody who's blind must be wanting to get Alexa. You know what I mean? Yeah. To make life easy. It it feels like having a smart house might be the thing. Hence, I say it's a very expensive disability to have for for for one who who wants to live their life to the fullest and not sit and always depend on somebody else doing for them. So that that that's how it plays a role in my life. I'm able to continue using those devices to ensure that I'm in touch, I'm alive, I can be at home alone. You know, there's um it's not an app yet, but I would say it's a contact on WhatsApp. It's called Mobilica something something. If I get a picture, I send that picture to Mobilica and they translate it back to me. Wow. You know, to say this is a picture of a woman. So you send me a picture, say you're going to Cape Town. There's a picture of a woman who's driving with her family. She they are all wearing sunglasses, you know, and there's like something that looks like a slab of chocolate written whole night on it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I'm actually gonna start sending you pictures. Because at first I'm like, there's no point of me sending you a picture because, you know. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01

No, so technology is moving at a very um fast pace and and and you know, to a certain extent in favor of blindness. I think the challenge, as I say, is still the accessibility in terms of financing it. 100%.

SPEAKER_00

And so how are you adapting to all of these fast-changing technologies? Because, for example, even the tools that we're using to record the session, they're yours. And you were the one instructing me and telling me how to use them. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Which means you are adapting. Yeah, I mean, we we one just as a human being, you must always be willing to learn. Right? You must you must always be open to learning. Um remember, who was that lady she's 65? At 65, did she get him a trick or a degree? I think she's passed away now.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, of course. Uh 65 in Yamazi. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So such situations, they remind us that we can never ever stop learning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? For me, coming to grips with new devices and technologies is not something to be afraid of. For me, one of my motto in life is try everything once, and then at least you know. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not I'm not I'm not afraid to try and then discover that this one is too complicated. There are 16 buttons I must press before it actually works. I can't do this one. You know, this is too large a mixer for me, for me to try and control, you know. But at least I tried.

SPEAKER_00

Have you always been like that? Or would you say losing your sight has helped you? Because I was watching you in Anklanji. Because you guys have moved. Okay, right now we're chatting about her office space. I didn't get to spend time with this lesser today earlier on. And I realized in your office space that you've moved.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But you were the one telling me, no, come up these stairs, too. I'm like, wow. I'm always in awe of you. I always am because I'm just like, you know your surroundings so well. You how how do you learn? It's oriented. Does someone take you through and be like, okay, silapang, naz stepsy, zingango? And you just memorize that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't count steps at all. I just wait for them to be done.

SPEAKER_00

Tell me, how does connectivity and data affordability impact your work as well as others in your community?

SPEAKER_01

Being in the Eastern Cape, being in the Eastern Cape, I'm a project manager for an organization called Abandoned Development Agency. And within that agency, we started an online radio station. Yeah. Except Community Radio. Um, for the benefit of young voices, you know, from school going age up to I guess 35. And um, last year we had to take the difficult decision to, you know, close down or maybe just put it on at a halt for now so that we can figure out how to move forward. But one of the things that we had also decided is that we definitely need to start, you know, understanding the process of applying for um FM. I don't know what they call it. Yes, yeah, we can get frequency. Because the truth of the matter is that Eastern Cape is largely rural and data is not as bread and butter as bread and butter is. So between bread and butter and data, our people are choosing bread and butter. Yeah. Because it's a largely unequal society, yeah. And so our our our issues are that bread and butter, you know, so that's how we're affected. You know, the necessity of, I mean, I mean a new office space now where we can't receive um the connection to the building, and we're having to figure out how. And you realize when we're there for the first day, we're like, oh, what do we do for the rest of the day? You you almost feel crippled without that connectivity. You almost feel like you there's something, there's a third leg of yours that's missing. You can't do anything without it, you know. Without it, you feel just off the radar. Um, because people have stopped calling each other with airtime, right? Every phone call is a WhatsApp call or it's a Google Meets call. We're finding all sorts of ways to to connect with each other, but by actual airtime. And because it's cheaper. It is cheaper. It is way cheaper. It's way cheaper. And yet having the actual data costs you 100%. Yeah, Eva. So it's it's it's challenging for the work that we do that needs us to always be, you know, engaging with our audience or engaging with the latest trends, researching um where else we can find funding, or who's doing what, some of your inspirations as artists, you want to see would this make sense? You know, you want to talk to Chat GPT, but without connectivity, it can't happen. Yeah, you can't. It can't happen. Yeah. So so for me, being in the creative space one, which is not so lucrative as you move because you're reliant on funding, um, it's it's it's it's the data costs that challenge us. We have to be able to budget for that at all given times. We have to be able to also utilize it wisely, but also our output cannot be received by the intended recipients. Because as I said, we're an unequal society.

SPEAKER_00

Affordability presentation. Yes. So one has to choose if they want to use their data for I don't know, social media, university application. Exactly. And chances are they're gonna choose their own personal thing as XE. Yeah because they have an alternative frequency. Exactly. So right now in my area, in Kabeca Aste around Newton Park, it's terrible. Now that's so true. It is so, so terrible. You use like the cream of the crop in terms of network provider. But for some reason, it is terrible. Every time I'm on a call, I feel it. Everyone in the house, we literally, if one person's on a call, we all have to switch off. Wow. So that that person can finish that call.

SPEAKER_01

And then you must all also identify a particular corner in the house.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just like, where are we? Are we not in the city? Yeah. Are we not in the urban side of the Eastern Cape?

SPEAKER_01

That's so true. That's so true. And then there's load shedding that also. So it kills the network sometimes.

SPEAKER_00

There's a lot that comes into play. And it is affecting us. Right. And I believe also another reason why other people are unable to fully transition into the digital space or are even resisting the change because they're like, what happens by not working as you know what happens when you combine? Because at least now if I'm working at a a retailer, I can just walk to work. But now if I'm working for an international company and they're unable to get a hold of me, it's higher than I then lose my job. And it's happening. It's a lot of people's reality. Yeah, it's all a bit politicized. So let me hey my demon because hey sad nails.

SPEAKER_01

I mean it is political. It it it it I'm now I can't believe that our daily life is political.

SPEAKER_00

It is. And I'm feeling it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00

I'm feeling it. I'm I'm deep within the reality of connectivity. It's real. I mean, check it.

SPEAKER_01

It's real. Yeah. Where they can buy, you know, it day Tam Tlambi, you suck a ding five fran. But still with that, people are just unable to afford it. You know, and you you're like, you five randy.

SPEAKER_00

But if five randy is between a packet chipsy, or just to delay the feeling of hunger. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

And you know we named your data and an end. Um, five fran. There's a lot it can do. There's a lot that it can do.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man. Forum yumtu. Yeah. This conversation is really bringing a serious awareness. Because sometimes when you are not at the brunt of something, it's so easy to overlook. So, so, so easy to overlook.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I don't think you know a foreign naleyo, because we see things as we are. So perspective is is is is influenced and driven by whatever position we speak from.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? So we are not wrong to say, but it's only five Rands. Because to us, you know, forking out 300 Rands for it or is a glass day 30 days or whatever the case may be is without question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know what I mean? But that's not everybody's reality. The only thing that I always say now is is to when you are being sensitized to that, be available to be sensitive.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I hear you. And now, in your view, who has access to digital work in South Africa and who doesn't?

SPEAKER_01

I think one, everybody should have access to digital work. However, as I it goes back again to the Eastern Cape and the geography of the Eastern Cape, that we are a largely rural province, right? I feel access is limited to those who are positioned in the more urban areas. Um I would say mostly young people, so that 18 to 35 bracket have access to digital work. But I'd also say the young adults, up to maybe one of my 50-55, they are still able to navigate that space and they do well in it. So those are the people that have access to it. Those are the people who are able to do it. But and as far as as the rural part of the province, I still say there's limited access. There are there are barriers still there. And they are not only about connectivity, they are also about literacy. Yes. Right? Because for me, a phone is beyond a communication tool. It's an assistive device. But the next person cannot say the same. The next person can't say the same. For the next person, you know, they could have the latest iPhone, but they will take pictures, send WhatsApp messages, and that's about it. And there's so many features and tools within that device. Within that device, right? A laptop, some people just understand a laptop as a thing where we watch movies. There are people who can't access Facebook via computer but can do it via phone. That's a literacy issue.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I mean? So so so beyond connectivity, it's being able to engage with the tools that would then lead us to the need of being connected. Yeah. Yeah, but so yeah, there's the there's that limited access. A lot of our rural schools and our traditionally or or previously, you know, disadvantaged schools, they still don't have computer literacy as a cause.

SPEAKER_00

And even when such tools are being brought to them, unfortunately, they get vandalized. Crime is at play.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. So those are the barriers that that that would cause me to say who has access to digital work is people who are largely in the urban areas. 18 to 35, 35 to about 55, young adults and and and and also working class in terms of circumstance.

SPEAKER_00

Data in our country is quite expensive compared to other countries. In as much as the working class is has access to data, but others are struggling to keep up. And sometimes they have to choose if whether or not data is important in that particular month.

SPEAKER_01

Ma'am, it's 500 friends a month.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You know what I mean? Do I stay connected just at work? And I don't pay for the data at home so that we're able to make ends meet. It's a reality.

SPEAKER_01

We've been faced with those realities where we're like, let's just shut it down for the next six months and we'll come back to life again later. But for now, it's not something that we can afford. Yeah. You know, so yeah, as our reality is the hectic. Also, with the levels of crime and you know, it limits how people move in their spaces. It does. It limits uh what they get to know, right? And you know, I'm I'm now thinking of my nieces, Abba Salukshin, Abba Funde Elukshin. And exposure. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

There's a lack of exposure. Lack of exposure. I've met so many people in varsity who say this is the first time I'm touching a computer.

SPEAKER_01

Beyond the issue of connectivity, there's the issue of literacy.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah. So now do you think enough is being done to include people living with disabilities in the digital economy?

SPEAKER_01

You know, and for no possibility, I know of efforts that are out there. I don't, I don't know of efforts that are, you know, are putting a primary focus on people with disabilities. Um in order to ensure that they have that kind of access. I I I really, really don't know about that. But what I do know is that if there could be such efforts, there's a lot of employability issues that we could deal with. Because there's there's there's a high rate of unemployment within the disability space itself. Uh um, totally blind people like myself are the most highly unemployed disabled people because of lack of knowledge of what it is they can do. And, you know, just with me being able to do my work the way that I do it, I'm starting to realize that if I were to stand in the gap and push and promote for you know more blind people to interact with these technologies to, you know, to open up this, you know, uh um hive of activity in the space, ee rate of unemployment would decrease because the space really is is I don't want to say it's created for us, but it's friendly to blindness. Yes, you know, and so I think that if government was aware of how technology is assisting in the you know blindness space, they would create those opportunities. But I don't think they're aware. I don't think they're aware.

SPEAKER_00

Uh uh, as I said, we think as we are, right? 100% because even for me, if I wasn't in your space, or if I didn't know, I would have never known that you are able to use you are you are able to use your phone as an assistive device, or you're able to work independently. Because I've been privy to that. Like I watch you do your thing on your own independently. It's so cool. It really, really is. So I feel like na wobakungabana we tumdakaboni was our panel and be lift and office in yet. And even now a technology, even as it's more dwelling, allows you actually to have a car.

SPEAKER_01

It takes you there. It's it's going there. Yeah. It's going there. For floor number five. Yeah. You know what I mean? You can't just get lost. And also with disability comes, you know, the notion of reasonable accommodation. So if you you are going to position me an officer and I'm on the fifth floor, then perhaps I need to be closest to you know, I need to be the first door after the elevator type vibe. So that's reasonable accommodation. That's making the situation easy so that I'm able to participate on an equal footing with the rest of my colleagues. So all of that is about, you know, awareness and visibility and and just understanding how spaces are moving. So this is why I said, because you know, we think as we are, it's not easy for people who are not blind, are not exposed to blindness to think, wow, this could actually work for blind people. And audio books, you know what I mean? They serve the blind community. But also, in as much as I believe they were created for the blind community, they're serving everybody now. Yeah, but already a lot of people are thinking, you know, Hindoya Bullet, you know, it is it's not always the case. I really feel like uh um, if they knew that the level of technology is about to change the game so much, they would create opportunities that are specifically directed at, you know, the blind, the hard of hearing as well. Yeah. Because technology speaks to all of that.

SPEAKER_00

This is such an eye-opener. Just having this conversation. It really is. But now I want to know from you, Neh, what are the digital opportunities beyond social media? Can young people explore to earn an income? Because a lot of people have woken up to social media, especially Facebook with Meta now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Everyone's just trying to do something to get some money off meta.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I I think remember I said I've got a friend who's working for a call center, who's literally just working from home. Um, there are these teaching opportunities now that are open where people are teaching across, they teach English, right? Mostly. Those are other ways to make money. You could become a sales agent. Yes. Just digitally. I think for me, there is nothing now that cannot be translated to digital work, right? If you are in the marketing space, there's digital marketing, right? Content creation, yes, that speaks to social media, but it's not just about social media, right? Because now universities, even schools, are online. And so being able to create content that is aligned to the lesson plans is a work stream that could be created. I don't know if it exists yet or not, but uh, my understanding is us as artists were able to go into schools and enact, you know, novels that they're studying as their set work. But today we could do that digitally.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know what I mean? We could create content that speaks to maths, science, history, da-da-da-da-da-da, and submit it to this place.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's just one video now. Exactly. And you drive it across these different schools versus you literally driving.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Yeah, but I think that there's nothing really that and you know, this is the particular work that you know is open to be done digitally. It's a matter of, you know, people figuring out the space they want to be in and seeing what's happening. Man, go church a pity that guide us with everything.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I was gonna ask Bana what skills are most important to young people, or rather for young people to succeed in the digital space today, but I feel that we've already covered that. Yeah. Because the main issue is literacy, once again. Literacy and accessibility. And ill illiteracy being a barrier, I feel like even eliminates the question office skills. Because how then do we skill you to be work ready in the digital workspace if you're uh illiterate?

SPEAKER_01

And you understand, I must be work in the traditional sense where you need to wait to be 18 to go to varsity to graduate. Uh digital work eliminates that. Digital work eliminates that. A 10-year-old can make their own money. They are. So it does need to start power escolu when you land. Yeah, but it's the literacy, it's it's that giving of assignments, e kufuneka za submit to online. You know, it's as simple as as you know, as a class teacher submitting the homework via Google Forms. Let the children answer their questions there. And click submit. Yes. Because I couldn't clear practice wang. In jail. So I think for the most part, uh um and and uh it's it's so it's so sad and so telling that throughout this conversation what we're talking about is the experience of blackness being an experience of lack in 2026.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Because that's where these things lack the most. I remember in the history textbook, when it comes to apartheid, black people are previously disadvantaged. No, we are not, we are present in disadvantaged. That's what it is. It is exactly like that, and which is why, as black people, we will continue being affected and bringing up these conversations. Other people will say, Hey guys, let go.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know that song, Kataninduli? It's in it It sounds like it's a conversation between her and and a white woman. Um, and in the chorus, she says something about don't you dare tell me that it's been a while now, move on from the past child. I'll send you a link to that. Please. I'd love to. She just reminded me of that now, as you're saying uh i about. It's not easy to just let go if the injustices have not been corrected, you know, or the attempts to correct are not visible, are not making a visible change in our spaces. Because Nyani, this entire conversation, when it comes to the lack of accessibility, the lack of you know information, the the the slowness in literacy, and and and for us, it does not seem to be affecting the lighter side of the rainbow. It's here with us. Who who who's in the rural?

SPEAKER_00

Us.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And the funny thing is that even clope in the rural, okay, or kan yi kistapap engati, I call ngatini affluent. You're like ebo funa donap. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

We have conversations among ourselves, but I I I frequent and it's it's a beautiful space to be in. Ilali except there's, you know, black community, there's white community. However, you can still tell that even these white people that are residing in the space are well off. Yeah. They've got the Wi-Fi at home. It's a holiday destination. The black friends that we've got there, they chill outside the white woman's house to connect to get their work done. You know what I'm saying? Because you pass words. I was like, I'm just saying, please pass it through, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I'm by affording.

SPEAKER_01

So issues it to care.

SPEAKER_00

Now, what message do you have for someone who feels limited by these circumstances or disability?

SPEAKER_01

Man, don't be afraid to make the hard decisions within your limitations. And as I said, try everything once. And then at least you know. You don't have to succeed at everything you try, but you will know if you succeed or not. And also don't be afraid to try again because you know, nah, no, no no try again. There's there's value in it when you know what it is you did wrong. So, yeah, don't don't don't be limited by your limitations, you know what I mean? Don't let your disability limit you. I always say buzzword, call young spectrum. Everything is just on the mind. That's exactly what I'm always thinking that sight is a spectrum, yeah, right? Deafness is a spectrum. Ability is a spectrum. So we are all dealing with our own abilities, inabilities and disabilities at any given point in time. So to sit and allow that to be your defining parameters might consume your time longer than it should. Because there's always a way out with the world as it is today, as it is becoming as well. There is no need for people to be sitting and just waiting to be served because they are under the banner of this is my circumstance. There is a a man or woman who comes from Iskolo, SSS Lalini, Ghana, a farm school, who is now at a university, who is graduating cum laude in information technologies. A hundred. They touched the computer for the first time at university, but they did it. There are others who who who had never done accounting at school, but they end up being financial auditors. You see what I'm saying? So it that proves to us already that you can negate your background and move towards something different from that. You cannot be limited by what people say you can't do, you've got to move past that. The most important conversation to have is the internal one. You know what I mean? If you believe it, you've got to do it. You've got to try it out. So that it is you who says, I proved that I couldn't. Not other people who are outside of you telling you that. Do you know what I mean? Because they don't know you. They don't. Do you know what I mean? You know yourself best. So you you you we better get to the point where we are our first motivational speakers, where we we psych ourselves up for. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

And all of those you can't you can't do it. That are echoing in your head. So, in your opinion, what does the future of work look like in South Africa? Even with the circumstances as Pillacos. Because you were saying we are rising above our circumstances.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um Sebainzi, as is defined perhaps in legislation as well, right? Yeah, change rapidly. Because it's becoming more and more independent of the employer-employee relationship. Because now people are able to govern themselves in terms of what kind of work they want to do and how they want to do it. I always believe there's one with a vision and then the others are helping to carry the vision. Yeah. Right? Now technology is also playing a role there in that it does appear as though you might not need as many people to carry your vision. Because to a certain extent, you might not need a consultant for your concept anymore. To okay, to you want to land, you you you'll be able to go to AI and say, yo, that's what I'm thinking, what you think.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_00

Even a therapist, man. Yeah. Chat is comforting people. And I know people, yeah. It's real.

SPEAKER_01

It's real. Yes. So EI change a concept. Yum Sabinzi in the future. As a creative, I feel that creatives are in a prime position in the future of work. You know, digital creation. Because if it's in the digital space, in a visual elements about it. Yeah. So it's gonna need photographers to be active, videographers to be active. So n diaborna ma it's a space that's going to activate a lot of you know creative individuals to step up and and and no longer be complaining about there's no work. Yeah. Yeah, but there's there's there's work out there now. So that's the future of work. It's going to be hard to define. I think government is still struggling to deal with the phenomenon of AI as is. You know, they're trying, but it parameters are scars as because they are developers every day. Yeah, but so we need to prepare ourselves for for how do we define work. Also, now you you need to be qualified for certain kinds of work. I feel like PR. Yeah. Somebody's gonna spend three, four years studying ecospace or public relations.

SPEAKER_00

Listen. And they're not well within their right to be. The thing about e-graphic design, nothing's choice is any like e-graphic design. Because other people are going to school for it. Now kuchet AIO sanna. Oh, yeah. So there are things like that.

SPEAKER_01

You see, when we're talking future of work, in our elements is heavy. We have one where you feel like, ish, is that affect talent. You want to question. It's scary, it's necessary, it still needs definition. It does. Right now, we are rolling with the punches. And we are not yet thinking fully ba it in the impact, yes, in yeas in door, you know, in terms of this fast-paced technological advancement. But guess is our teeny, you know? See criticize. Because if you are a purist and you are going to be stuck at criticism, it's not changing. It's not changing, it's moving. So, yeah, new work still needs uh uh future work or the future of work still needs like a proper definition. Yeah, but I don't think that proper definition is going to come from a symposium where people are in discussion for a week. It will build itself up. We will we will get to a place where we're like, okay, now this is a bit much, or or this is great for us as a people, and we're going to move with that. Because also, remember, like even robots that are doing im the tea they are taking away from our natural resources to a certain extent, right? So we're gonna have to balance all these things against those realities. How much water, how much power, you know what I mean? Youngo, if a laphi, and it's at whose expense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and what happens to the people who are going to fall off? Because that is a reality. And that's another cost. We already have high unemployment in South Africa because people are struggling to break into the digital landscape. I want this conversation to continue beyond this platform. I want us to start thinking and talking about the future of work in South Africa and how we can place ourselves within the changes that are happening. Yeah, I know. How do you maneuver and keep yourself in the job markets?

SPEAKER_01

We have to move with the cheese. I hope you read that book. Who moved my cheese?

SPEAKER_00

I have it. You have it? I haven't read it. And I haven't read it. And people speak about this book so highly. They someone said to me, read this book and then figure out what your cheese is. Okay, I must not move a bit tomorrow. Yeah. I have it. Okay, I'll read it and then I'll tell you about it. And it's not a long book, right? Deny.

SPEAKER_01

Then you'll understand when I say we've got to move without cheese.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We have to move without cheese.

SPEAKER_00

Otherwise, but one thing that I've caught in our conversation is that in as much as we haven't defined exactly how the future of work looks like in South Africa, we are aware that technology is going to be at play.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. So, what needs to change right now in order for whatever the future of work looks like, we're able to access it?

SPEAKER_01

Literacy needs to improve. In as much as we we we sometimes act like, you know, rural areas of the forgotten spaces, but they need to be prioritized if we really want to talk catching up and all people being being being equal with equal access. We really need to look into that. For instance, I work in the arts and it's it's it's a funding-based kind of work. So we every now and again we have to submit funding applications for the projects we want to do to, you know, national arts councils and such entities. And these applications are on digital forms. You submit online, and that puts at a disadvantage Umda who does not have the required computer literacy to even come close to submitting an application online, uploading documents, and then and it's a challenge. So I think we firstly need to prioritize that. I think we need to deal with the issue of crime because um the tools that we need to use, they cost money. They do. And everybody's aware that they cost money. And one of the first things they target is those who have the most expensive ones, right? So there are spaces where you can't walk with your cell phone in your hand, for example, because so we need to deal with the issue of crime. We need to create livable spaces. Um, yeah, we need to deal with the socio-economic issues that give rise to you know criminal intent, that give rise to drug abuse, um, and an end in order for the space to be viable for the kind of future of work we are envisioning. Because without that, Sizzle, one step forward, two steps backwards, right? As I said already, the fact that I'm blind is very expensive because I'm relying on all these technological tools. But just in general, even if I were not blind, I would want the best for myself. But within the context of ilokishi, that's not always possible. So we seriously need to deal with the the socio-economic issues, you know, uh uh um that, you know, we think have got nothing to do with the future of work, but they have everything to do with it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Uh uh this situation of drug abuse and new drugs coming up on a daily that are destroying Inondo, Zabandu, is adding to the issue of illiteracy. You know what I'm saying? It's adding to that, and therefore, a whole lot of young people who could have been in a position to work in the digital space aren't able to because they don't have the capacity to do that. In Mondo's abuse 40.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

This is your beast. Do you get what I mean? So we've got to deal with those realities, you know, in clearing the space and creating an enabling environment for the future of work.

SPEAKER_00

I can agree with you there. Is there anything maybe that you'd like to share that we haven't touched on? Any thought, any experience?

SPEAKER_01

Uh uh. So I think it would just really be to reiterate that just from the disability angle, Nyani, that perhaps those who have the power to, you know, create opportunities and and and open up access, they really need to look at the issue of how technological advances are favoring or or are enabling for blind people. And therefore, if we want to break the narrative of totally blind people, uh unemployable, it's a that it's a the it's a the it's a the perhaps we need to start looking at creating opportunities that focus on how do we, you know, acclimatize them to the technological advances and let them move with it, you know. Yeah. Also, it would be nice to be subsidized. Hey, Sana! Yeah, in the work that we do, it would be nice to get a subsidy now for your devices that you need. So not 50% because it is expensive.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much for your time. Let me call you Poetic Soul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lily Mambiala. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me on the Future of Work podcasts. It's really been so delightful to hang out with you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Just learning, getting inside your brain.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for having me. I hope my voice makes it a jonga.

SPEAKER_00

I feel full in every possible way. I hope you're also taking something with you from this incredible conversation, from access to overcoming, and about the reality of the digital landscape in the Eastern Cape. Thank you so much for listening to The Future of Word. A special thank you to Lily Tomamitala for such a nourishing and generous conversation. Thank you to the team that helped bring this episode together. This episode was hosted and recorded by myself, Sima Feo. It was scripted and edited by Andalim Stormy with sound design by Andalim Stormy. You can also listen to all our episodes on SoundCloud and Bassport. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram. For our next episode, Dumi speaks to Ndombi from Alexander, who is working to grow her creative business into something bigger than herself. Until then, thank you so much for listening. Come back for more stories about digital lives.