Episode 3: It's chai, right?

USipho is a fan of uDarkie doing something for themselves and in this honest, vulnerable, and at times funny conversation, you’ll hear why.

Zinhle Magazi, our field reporter, sits down with Sipho Hadebe, a Sowetan who moved to Cape Town for school and stayed for work.

Together, they unpack the legacy and ongoing realities of segregation and displacement embedded in Cape Town’s fabric, and how these play out in personal, everyday ways.

This episode is worth a listen if you’re thinking about who gets to live, work, and belong in our cities and whether the presence of those just passing through should be more critically considered.

🎙 Credits
Hosted by Zinhle Magazi
Recorded at Studio 44, Cape Town
Co-scripted by Zinhle Magazi & Andile Msomi
Sound editing and design by Andile Msomi

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📲 Follow us on Instagram:
Future of Work: @fow_podcast
Sipho Hadebe: @siphohadebe

Thank you for listening! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, my name is Zinklemagazi and I'm from Masek Pomelele in Cape Town. Welcome back to The Future of Work, a storytelling series about the digital lives of South African youth. In this conversation, we speak with SIPO Hadev, a young entrepreneurial professional whom I first met a few years ago. We worked at the same company in Cape Town. During our conversation, I observe SIPO's ability to honestly engage with the poignant and quite frankly devastating social phenomenon. SIPO's sharp analysis highlights the loss of money and years spent on a city that ultimately chooses to price its residents out. That said, his humor-packed storytelling style not only brings moments of laughter and relief, but signals his resilience. Have a listen. So we are sitting with Usipo Hadebe. I will let you introduce yourself as we start a conversation, and then we'll take it from there.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

I grew up in Soweto, Proteat Land to be more precise. And then I moved to Cape Town due to school in 2017, and then that's how I got exposed to the place. And although when I was landing, I saw the shags, and you know, I was confused what's happening. Then I see the beautiful mountains because I was by UCT. So it's a nice bubble there for students. So you're not really exposed to a lot. So my time there, I lived in that bubble. And then fortunately after work, I found work in Cape Town. And then I was working here ever since after graduating with my honors. And then that's when I think I started getting, you know, exposed to different parts of Cape Town and what's happening and you know how other people are living like. And of course, it was difficult because I mean, for the duration of five years, you know, you live in this bubble, you know, of Zoranda Borges and so on and so on. And then now you have to like sort of expand because now you're paying for yourself and must find a place to pay your rent and so on. So yeah, uh, I think I'm a view just to uh bring it short, is different from when I was a student and now when I'm working. So right now, as I'm working, there aren't as many like positives, shall I say, um compared to then, when you know Nesfass was taking care of everything, you just had to pass.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Can I follow up to say what do you mean that there aren't as many positives compared to then?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Um so um I think when this year I did Irreflection, so I was basically moving every year. So I lived in Ronde Bosch. This is after work. I lived in Ronda Bosch, I moved to Salt River, I moved to Woodstock, uh, and then back to OBS, and then again I moved to Pinelands, which is where I'm at now. So if you look at that, it's not it's not stable, it's not, you know, you know, comfortable, you know, because every end of the year you are looking for a cheaper place to get, you know, a much more affordable place to get, so that obviously you can also enjoy a few things with Imaliako and with your salary and cover other things. So I think that's where the unpleasant part comes. Yeah, you know, you're living a life that's really not stable, that's not, you know, calm, and and so on.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

From what you've uh touched on, it seems that the moving is due to uh, as you said, finding a cheaper place. So it's you know, the rising um cost of rent, which of course then makes you feel you have to uproot yourself, which um I would assume affects the way you connect with community, you connect with um the space and places. And um I think you know, since you've uh finished studies and have been working, have you been able to feel like Cape Town is your home as you keep doing the moves and the the packing, the moving and starting?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Never. Um I think I think for myself personally, uh I've never really had a good connection with with Cape Town. And from the get-go, from my second month of being here, I already knew Uguti. Oh, you know, so I think what uh when I'm looking at my little sister now, she's also here in Cape Town, she's doing her her second year now, you know, yeah. She still has this, you know, uh jovial mood about Cape Town, you know, she's still looking forward to more. And whereas myself, I just I just knew Uguti, you know, there's just a lot of you know uh different parts that you know I was not comfortable with. And obviously at the time, you must realize, Uhti, I came when there was a lot of student, you know, uh protests and so on. So you were pretty made aware of the space very quickly. Um so I think I think I think that is why I was you know able and conscious of what was happening at the time. So I think, yeah, I I never really felt like home. I never really felt like home. Um it's it's it's it's it's different. And and obviously with you know this, what what the space does is that is that you sort of move, gravitate towards who you're comfortable with. Right? So you gravitate to Amaya Band, you know, who comes from Amaya Magasi and and so on. And and and I I think my first encounter I was like, hey dog, I mean, I'm not gonna invite you to come to my to my gas because I it's not safe, and I don't think you're gonna enjoy it. That was my first, you know, moment in a gas, and I was like, Donna, what are you talking about? Because I desperately need a place. You know, it's like I don't know, I'm sorry. We can't, I can't, you know. Even when I want to have fun, I go to a down umblomina in a majida and then you know spend time together as friends, but I can't really allow you to come to the space. So yeah, from then that's how I started navigating ICAP.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Wow, okay. Um, so I think that touches to a core part of where this conversation is going to go. Um, and it touches on the theme of uh, you know, the moving of the middle class either to from the city center to the outskirts, like, or moving to other cities, right? And um I'll let you lead this part of the conversation, but yeah, tell me where you are in your current how can I say, positioning yourself within the city.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

When I'm speaking to my current uh place where I'm at, I think it it's been a build-up of decisions, you know, and and movements. I think um I remember very well when I got my my letter of increase your rent, you know. Um at the time when I looked at I I know I I'm a humanities kid, but when I looked at those numbers, I was able to see which, okay, first of all, this increase your rent is, you know, uh a path. I know, I know that there's a regulation, a policy that says, you know, you can't increase rent more than 10%, right? So that was like 14 point something. So I was like, okay, this is a very first red flag. But anyway, it's not like I was gonna renew because I wasn't gonna afford Oxalayo, you know, lent is uh taking into account I'm a budget creeps. You know, you have to think a lot of things, a man's okay, petrol, whatever, boom, boom, boom. So and then funny enough, I I got a place through a friend. Uh so the place that I got or that I'm living in now, and the lease is expiring. This is my last month there. Uh Mganga, Mamaki. So that's how I got the place, and that's how the place is affordable in Pinelands. Because when I speak to my neighbors, their rent that they pay is insane, you know, as to what I'm paying. So it's been it's been a combination of a decision that I've been taking and and also the value for money, and also now I'm entering my 30s. You want to, you want your money to work for you. You need to start thinking forward, savings, and so on, and so on. So I started thinking, which, okay, cool, where can I get an affordable place? You know, I wasn't, I wasn't really winning, and and and I was panicking, and then I decided, which, okay, cool, let me start reaching out to you know my friends, you know, to the people that, you know, I talked to, you know, former colleagues and so on. And then that's when then I reached out to to yourself to say, hey, Yazinte, I've been struggling with this. Do you do you know of any place where I can get help, where I can get a nice and affordable place? And then that's how you know we we came about to where I'm now, to say I'm moving out and I'm moving to the place that you recommended. So yeah, I think I think I think when I break it down nicely is that it doesn't feel nice when obviously you get get paid at the end of the month, and now it's like E20. And when you're opening your account, it's like 50 Rand, so there's like 100 Rand chilling there, right? And and on top of that, you've just realized as much as I used to save, you know, because when you when you start, you're like, okay, you have this upbeat mode, so big it thousands every month. Now it's no longer that 1K. Yeah, well, okay, fine, we'll beg a little 1k and then go very something, from that 1k, or tattio from lap, putatia from lap, and then now you find yourself at a very uncomfortable position. So I think that was for me like a married flags like that that really pushed me to say, you know what, yeah, no, this is not working out. Yeah, this is not working out. Um, and even if you can look at the math as well, I like looking at the math. You know, I earn an X amount of money, and and there's this rule that I saw from someone, Wuti, your rent shouldn't be more than 33%, and so on. And when I'm looking at my rent, it's sitting at 62%. So a huge chunk of my salary goes to that place to paying a rent. And and it's not it's not a decision, Yooti. I want to use the majority of my salary to pay a rent. There's nothing nice about it. Or it's not about um I want to to live in pine lands, blah, blah, blah. No. It's because I want a safe place, you know, I want to go to work easily, I want to, you know, like the first thing that you think of with HM7s in Zofiga Grandina. That's the first thing, because that's why I'm in Cape Town. I'm here for work. So the first thing that I prioritize was how will I get to work, you know, how long will it take me? And and and and and so that place was very convenient for me. But, you know, it's like it's like having this beautiful thing. Uh, you know, it's beautiful, but it's affecting you in a way because now you're no longer showing up, you know, for for yourself. If before we even go to if you're making, you know, you're no longer showing up for yourself. You're unable to uh uh uh really cover important things in your life. And then I took the decision. I was like, nope, um, I'm closing this chapter, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Um you've spoken a bit about uh, you know, the buildup of things that led you to make that decision. And I think you've also spoken about the type of emotions, you know, you were feeling. Um, but maybe if you'd like to expand a bit more um about what that moment felt when you were reading that increased letter, right? Like what were the real-time emotions you were feeling, but also who were you having those conversations with? And um I think also amongst the peers and colleagues and friends, you know, how how was that conversation going when you made the decision?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah. So so uh I mean I I'd like to call myself a mama's boy. So whenever first thing happens, you know, whenever I'm inconvenience, you know, I call I call my ma. Uh but um dum ta I realize there are some conversations that she she doesn't understand. There are some conversations that you know she she hasn't been around to sort of give you the advice. And then that's where I started crumbling, because you know, when the first thing you reach out to a guy, you know, it's like, you know, I need and then they can't help you. And then now you are stuck in this empty space, right? So when I spoke to my mom, she'd say, Why don't you move to a cheaper place? I'm like, Mom, I said literally I sat next to her. So we went, we checked all these places, we checked all of these places out, and they were expensive, and you know, it wasn't. I was like, Can you and then she was like, Oh, seepo, mustala lok shine, of course, get Lokshin, you'll sala la pay. I was like, Mom, I care. A hundred percent, I care. But this, I played the voice note from my friend. I was like, this is a voice note from my friend. My friend was saying, Hey dude, a kaya, we have a bedroom that is available, that is empty, that is vacant for you to come. But I will never allow myself which we're not because I know which lama liquorite. You know, my way where so I was like, We as well get ma'am. So you you you come across these things also in social media, you know, what's happening in the Cape Flesh, we are too asumun. And as you see, in knowledge about Cape Town, you you know, you told and I was so lost. You know, so so I understand and and so frustrated. And then came upon where about no man, let me let me reach out, man. Let me really understand what's what's happening. You know, it's more like let's go plum somewhere. No, man, that's chige kwa lang, so ling yam. That's how you're gonna really, really start to understand the place. You know, you know, that's how now I'm starting to get exposed to these places, you know, through meat, you know, watching soccer, whatever, drinks with friends, and then you are seeing now you can gauge with no man, you know, I la, I woke up, man. Yeah, well, although although it can be some few things, yeah, but obviously has its own things, right? So it became the thing which I started to to really familiarize myself. I mean, you would know if you check my stories every weekend. I used to make sure I take my friends, we baba uti kasla calling jani, ah ninga we'll be there. 12 o'clock mean we'll be there, we're gonna drink, we're gonna have some meat, and then we're gonna dip, you know, before it gets dark. Yeah, well, nga, yeah, yeah, when I mention I'm using Nga because now I I don't have a choice. Because my my lease is running down, right? So I need to take actions and at the same time I need to make proper research. I need to see these things, a missure. So yeah, that's how that's how that's how it went by.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Um like what I'm getting from this is that there's a trade-off between uh safety, convenience, um especially Upper Cape Town, and affordability, right? Where there's affordability, but maybe at uh safety where which is compromised and longer traveling times. So I wonder as you are preparing for uh you know to move which um to the next place which you'll be living at. Um how are you preparing yourself for that? Like in terms of um how can I say mobility, you know, she needs in jalo. Like, how are you going to re-establish yourself if you've thought of those things yet?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, so fortunately enough for me, those that thing I think it will happen automatically because like I said, I grew up a so echo, and you know, if you're going to a down, it's gonna take you a good hour. Right. So it used to take me two hours back then when I used to work, a drawback. It used to take me like an hour to travel to work. So it's it's it's those things I'm I'm pretty aware of already, which okay, cool. Preparation. Now there's no more waking up at eight o'clock in the morning, you know, still have breakfast and still make it to work on time or nine. Right. So I have to wake up a little bit earlier, you know. And and now you check mode of transport. Because driving from a fishwork to a down, uh, right? So it means most of the time I'll be using a train. So those things that you must take into account, like I'm at delays with train, you know, it's things that I'm familiar with. I don't want to call it black privilege, but you know, it's things that are in me already that I know. But so I don't think it's gonna be this huge adjustment. But obviously there's gonna be things that, you know, I'm gonna have to adapt, you know, because like waking up and so on and so on. So when it comes to a preparation, I think preparation already I'm within. So I'm not not really worried about that. Uh the the only thing, Jay, I've been worried with how's the how's the the environment is safety? Can I go to a tech shop to buy bread and come back without encountering any issues? Yeah, but is it gonna be a situation whereby I when I'm coming from work, I need to make sure that I come with everything, yeah, so that I don't get exposed to some of these things as in Zaga des Thracking. So, yeah, those are one of one of the things that I was really considering. And from what I got, I was like, okay, cool, this is fine.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I think to touch a little bit on, I know we've passed to this part of the the conversation a little bit and we've jumped ahead, but in what is happening, like we experience of having to go from place to place. Do you think that um it is something that is happening to a lot of people? It is like a broadly experienced kind of forced uh, you know, class movement that is taking place.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Song is shy. Like Song. I think I think we're even making amateur with my friends. We're like, dude, does your mom know that you are living with in Dombey where you're renting? You know, like a because now that's that's somehow a new strategy to sort of like make rent more affordable, right? So it's affecting a lot of people that I know. Like people are constantly moving. If if you've done two years, uh I know that the third year you are moving for sure. That's what I've seen. That's the trend, that's the pattern that I've been witnessing around my friends, right? So the moving part really happens a lot. I think there's there's this this one friend of mine who really took this leap of faith. He was like, Sipa, I'm done. Saying, right, I don't see what I'm working for up in Cape Town. Yeah, but like it growth, it's very slow, and you know, I'm I'm gonna call it. And then and then she called it, so likely she she comes from a very supportive family, she has those structures, you know. So she went to Chobek. She was like, I'm done. Because it's like, okay, cool, I'll get paid, boom, boom, boom, then I have nothing at the end of the day. So why am I here? So she she she left. So that's now like the extreme measure compared to me, who doesn't really have that support, you know, like financial support. You have to like, you know, take a teaspoon of cement and toughen up and try to be adaptive and creative. So this is one of the things that I'm doing now. I need to be creative, I need to adapt, you know, to get a place that is affordable. And funny enough, now even places a gas is that door. Yeah, even places a gas is a dura. Um, you can take Langa, for example. Your room, I was like, ah, make a link, 4.5. Hay putti, you know, let me recommend. And then you talk, ha, 5.5, and hey, you know? Yeah. Because that's how that's how bad it's becoming now. And and I remember this conversation, this guy, uh I think JP Smith, he was saying he's happy that Ilanga is gentrifying. I was like, what do you mean? What are you saying exactly? So yeah, those are those are one of the things now that we see.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Sure. I know that we had this conversation about errand, and you were like, uh uh, I'm not taking a room here.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah. I remember. I remember you sent me, you sent me that room, and you were like, oh, this is nice. Oh, it has this and that. I was like, Zintle, I was like, let me give Uzintle an hour. Let me let me leave her on blue tick. And then I was like, Zintle, actually, Uti Ngu, I'm not doing this, bro. But like 5k. Because and now I'm paying 5k. Oh, young bula dog. So I was like, yeah, I know. And then we were able here to find other options.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah, oh my goodness. That's so funny. But it's true. Like the property prices at Cape Town are you know filtering in within Iogishi. Like when I look at property prices, um Ecapri, which is a suburb just outside of EMAS, it's going for 1.2, 1.5 million. And plots MAS are going for 900,000. You understand? So you can see Ugoti, this is happening. Of course, it means that property owners now are also being able to catch the value for the value of their properties, but also at what cost? You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of uh consequences that are taking place. Um so now we're gonna move on to uh digital work and access. And um I believe you work hybrid. So when you hear the term digital work, what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:32

For me, uh if I hear the word digital, but triggered and go, I'm a digital nomad. So so yeah, so I think uh digital work, I think I it's the balance of like hybrid, I think it can be included there because it's some part of digital lapo, and then also including I'm a digital nomad. I don't know, you can school me on that one.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

No, we are going with with your responses. Um and you know, when we think of digital work, who has access to it in South Africa and who doesn't?

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah, digital work now it gets tricky because um, for one, you have to think of things like electricity, things like your Wi-Fi or fiber now. Because, you know, things you know are faster, boom, boom, boom. And if you're gonna be working at home, you need to have those things. So the accessibility, I think it's it varies amongst amongst people. That's where now it last struggle comes in. Yeah, well. So uh so based off what I said, of it definition, yeah. I'm not sure if it's if it's it's correct. Um, but I think uh if m being or person X, you know, nklala experiences the load, a load reduction, yeah, load shedding, a load reduction, whereby there's no electricity for like 10 hours. Yeah, well. So you're not really benefiting now from that hybrid model.

unknown 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Right. So I think yeah, it's uh you know, but it's a class struggle within. So you're not accessible, but you know, is it really accessible?

SPEAKER_00 25:27

If you've got the money to access it.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Um, and I think how has this concept of digital work shaped your own life and decisions?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

For me, it hasn't it hasn't done anything for me because I'm in Cape Town, I'm losing money. If you can look at it that way. You know, if I was in Trobic, still earning the same salary, I would have been, you know, gone. Like I would have like done a lot. Let me help you out. So over the past uh four years, over the past four years, uh if you if I calculate my rent that I've paid in Cape Town, I would have owned a standalone at Bryanstein in Dorby. And Brynstein is like this, you know, beautiful place, like use new lands, like, you know? So I would have owned a standalone and I would have finished paying it in full this year. Do you do you understand how crazy that is? Because Brynstein's Santin Day One. So I would have been living a Santin with a fully paid house with the rent that I've paid in Cape Town. To to sort of like paint the picture. But now, because I'm here, I'm not not really enjoying, you know. So I'm like, I've I've I've had like a lot of conversations, bro. Like I've had a lot of conversations with you. You know, sorry, I'm gonna put in my my my Luxin language here. I was like, and like Nivaya Nini. Because what am I doing? Like, Nienza, yeah. So, so, and then you cut here, you cut. Zintlay, you can cut all you like. The difference is only this little, like it's it's tiny. It's like a drop in the ocean. Like the difference doesn't. So, so yeah, that's that's that's the that's the picture.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Sure. Thank you for painting that that picture, because I think sometimes when we think of rental amounts, we don't put them into like five-year, four-year plans of what you could have achieved with that kind of money. And the fact that, you know, the money, as you said, that you get at Cape Town would take you so much further, a job or in a different city. Um, and earlier on you said when you hear the word uh digital work, yeah, trigarisha, because it makes you think of digital nomads. Right now. So um, yes, there's a growing conversation that's taking place at Cape Town, right? Where I think um these experiences that you are sharing are being put to the forefront of, you know, the kind of class displacement that is taking place because of um, you know, travelers with the euro and with the dollar and how they're reshaping uh, you know, ordinary people's lives. Um so when we think of uh digital nomads and city dynamics, you know, what is your understanding of this whole phenomena or concept that is taking place?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Um like my basic understanding, and I'm I'm gonna be truly honest with this one. I I really didn't pay attention to it in a sense that not that I didn't pay attention to it as if like I don't care about it, but I didn't, you know, those things that annoy you so much, and you're like, I'm really not gonna give this thing my energy. It's it's one of those things because you know, there's less regulation on digital nomads, and you know, it's multi-layered, you know, the issues, their issues are multi-layered, you know. Obviously, they come in, try, you know, using their very, you know, strong currency and and flood the coffee shops. The next thing you go to OBS two years ago, coffee was 10 rand, today it's 35 rand. It doesn't even make sense. You understand? And because obviously owners also are gonna take advantage that, you know, these people are here. Let me try to get something. So, yeah, just to go back, I think, I think for me, I really never paid much attention to it because I could see the damage that it was doing and how less responsive our like government was to it. Um and I I I blocked it out. I blocked it out. Like I have I have a lot of things to worry about. A man's UKC and all those things. Then now I'm dealing with my own things. So that's that's been my approach to things. But I could tell with through through through various things. You could see in fair. So now now it's empirical. Now you can you can see. Before you could there were hearsays, which oh, did you hear that, you know, uh matcha costs this much there, you know, now this cocktail, you know, but now it's a visual.

unknown 30:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Now when you get there, you don't see, you know, your people. And now you can see with your it's it's it's something else, you know. So it's by share, what, what, what, normal language understand? Yeah, well, so now you yeah, you're like, yeah, no, it's gone. It's Chai now, right? So I think, I think, I think, yeah, like in that sense, now it's very visual. You can see it, it's in front of you. And I think my frustration comes with the irregulation of this thing. Why is it not really, why is it not being given at uh like the attention it deserves? And when you listen to people like Gordon Hill, you even get more annoyed, yeah, right? So, and you just and then end up blocking it out because you see with the there's no future here, you know. But yeah, you'll you you'll you'll participate when things like your, I know there was a draft, uh, is it a white paper thing that came out where they wanted like public uh input on that, you'll participate on that to say, okay, let me put my two cents. Maybe it will help change something, but that's as much as you can do.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

And you know, from this uh, like what Cape Town is experiencing is what other cities have experienced. Like I'm actually surprised that we haven't gotten to the point where locals are being pretty adversarial to visitors as they are in cities like um Barcelona or you know, and and other places.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

We are, but on TikTok. We are on TikTok. If if like a tourist posts something like ohambanin, I would lie, I've been I've done that like a few times, like yo, like was oh hambanine, you know, because it's like you know, it has got to that point. Um but I think I think now like I'm mentioning, we are doing it, but like on social media, you know, I think we are waiting for this turning point where by now we're gonna start being like, uh-uh, this is and it doesn't have to get there. Yeah, it doesn't have to get there.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

And also like what what would have been lost in in um in the process, because it's not only about you know, people or usip or uzingle angle being in spaces, but it's also about the energy they bring, right? So when you when people leave space, it loses that that magic, which I think normally attracts people to Cape Town. You you see. So um I think we've I think we've spoken about how this affects local youth and people trying to build a life here. Like you've mentioned a friend who's decided to leave Elendus and to go to to Johannesburg. And you know, you've also spoken about the the you know the relocation um that you are making. And I'm curious, uh, you know, Sipa, we were speaking with another friend earlier on, um, and we touched on the concept of Cape Town is known for its segregation legacy. And uh it seems that you know this reincarnation, for lack of a better word, of the same beast is affecting similar people that it had affected in the 60s and in the 70s, except, you know, we are now working class and we're in a dip we're in a different like economic and political dispensation. But um touching on to the next section of future thinking, in your opinion, what does the future of work look like in South Africa and what would you what would need to change uh for that future to feel more accessible and fair?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

I think I think for me is sure. I think for for me uh the future of work in Zans is that if there can be like a way, some let's say some government intervention to allow to allow like people to to be able to work comfortably. For example, such like basic service deliver, you know, the Zumban. You know, I earlier I mentioned things like load reduction. I don't know if you're familiar with that term.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

10 hours per day.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yeah, so sometimes it's like days. Yeah, well, so things like that, you like your service uh delivery issues, and and how do we mitigate in the case? You know, how do we mitigate with you know these people can't really afford to buy electricity? You know, if if if those smaller Nyana things, things that we consider as small, if those things can be looked at, then then then obviously now at least if platform Nyana will be there for people to to really now start you know operating and moving how how they like. Because um, sorry, I'm gonna move away from the question because now it's starting to create attention. I'm really good with paying to attention to a guys. It's starting to create attention even with who you plumb with now. Like, you know, um, we're gonna chill and do this with sword and so. And so bangati, manje, yt as this colonizer in the that was previously for a ban to balabu. You understand? Hey, as I say figure. Right? Because we are working and sibetegi let down and see a balekang and when we're running away, Kantinata says. If si amosh. So it's a double-edged sword. Right? So that's the that's the thing that I've experienced. But now going back here to a future of work, I think I think things, I think, hey man, we have a we have a very weak government, I think, when it comes to these things of regulations and so on. Um but I think if they can pay much attention to it and to sort of like handle how they deal with these digital numbers guys. And damn, I think I thought it was difficult for me to even think about the future while I'm saying Singapore. But um I'm already seeing how young people are creative, you know, making use of the little that's there. You have like artists now, my terms, but yeah, my TikTok artists but woman is able to put bread on the table, you know. You have people now doing music using EAI, for example. I'm not saying I'm a fan of that, but I'm a fan of Uday doing something for themselves, as long as they're not affecting other people. So it goes back to what I was saying, which if at least it could be like some sort of foundation in terms of your service delivered. Even no case in a month. Okay, I'm gonna be in the house. Yeah, nginda yok, n'so bone with so I think yeah, that's that's that's that's how I'm um I'm looking at it from where I'm at. I might have not like answered that question to like how I've wanted it to, but it's just like it's it's hey man, like I've been in a very weird space. I've been in a very weird space. Like, TV of Sebugate. I haven't watched TV in like so long. Like, I know there was a there was a Peaky Blinders movie that came out. I only watched 30 minutes. Because that's the only escape that I have right now with yo, manga lala. Every time I'm chai, yo, manga lala. You know, so it's it's it's it's so sad to see and to reflect when I'm looking at myself, like from you know, from afar to say, where who am I really? Because even if you I'm good, like bro, away. And and and and now also to even take it further, things wonder if you're not gonna be able to win the line. Because that's the space I'm I'm in right now. It's like ish yeah, it's a tight one. You understand? So you you can't really function, and now it starts to affect other things like socials as well. How you how you how you interact with other people, how you reconnect with you know old friends and so on and so on. Let's go to yours truly to get some wine. Hey though, you know, hey man, I have this project that I'm working on, dude. I'm gonna finish late that time. Yeah, I understand. So it starts to affect like quite a lot of things. That's why I'm saying with it is um I was at a period whereby Google and autopilot, and yeah, that's what's been happening.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Sure. Thanks so much for I think bringing the honesty, maybe vulnerability as well, and um transparency because sometimes we package this conversation and we separate it from our own lived experiences, and I think what you've done uh so powerfully, the conversation is really bring it back to home. And I think it's that's how people are feeling it, and that's why it it is you know such an important uh conversation that is taking place. So to close, what are your uh what are the hopes you have for yourself as you make this move, you know, and you know, is there anything else you'd like to add on top of that?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Um I think what I'm looking for is a stable place. Like in the you know, work, study, you know, game and sleep. Right. Um, but what I'm looking forward to the most is finishing my certification and getting out of captown. That's the first thing, and also that's the move has enabled me to be able to enroll because things like your chem certificate certification is expensive like 40k, 30 to 40k. You know, I already'm like, ha. So this move has enabled me to be able to afford that, you know. So I'm very much, you know, appreciative of it. Get grateful of you, nah, tola in the right, angle, which you know, I can be able to do important things and now move in my career because it means I've been stagnant for the past three years. That's what this is saying. I've been stagnant because I've been wanting to, but you can't. You genuinely can't. You understand? So I think also, probably for someone who might come across uh the school platform as to if they're listening to this podcast, actually, is and if they're going through what I'm going through, there's this thing that people like saying, Abantu Bazotine. That syndrome is very dangerous. Don't, don't, don't listen to that thing. Abantu bazoutini, when I used to have pool upstairs wherever, it's not gonna take you anywhere. Uh, you're gonna reflect in your mid-30s, you're gonna look back and you're gonna see how much time you've wasted. So I think they must also try to open themselves up to such opportunities, which no. Cape Town, yes, it has its own challenges, just like any other place in club. Try to look at it in an open eye and try to, you know, do your own research and maybe open up. You know, so I think that's the most important thing to someone that's listening. And and yeah, I think for me, I'm probably also gonna start being more social now. Because, you know, I'm gonna have extra. I'm gonna have extra, and I'm gonna be able to let me a little bit explore the other sides of Cape Town and and so on and so on. Yeah, well, and and and even most importantly, and start, you know, saving again. Because that's the most important thing in Pilangai, which you need to pay yourself every month, save towards your future, you know, save towards emergencies and so on. Yeah. So there's a lot I'm looking forward to, and and and I'm really hoping which is gonna be a lovely journey.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Thank you so much, Sipo. Like this has been such a yeah, such a great conversation, and I think such an honest um take on everything that's happening. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

I think also if you're gonna speak about such Things are very important to be honest and open. Yes. Because I think such platforms are not only meant to educate, they're also meant to introduce okay, this is what's happening, you know. And hopefully someone somewhere might listen to this and say, hey, actually, let's look back into these things, let's look back into what's happening in Cape Town, you know. So that's why I'm saying such platforms are very important, which they can they should be taken seriously. And if you're gonna be talking about something, talk about it, you know, put some meat and heart into it, so that you know, and in fact, you understand that time you're a listener, you're like, ish, hey, hey, this guy, you know. So hopefully, uh, yeah, it's gonna it's gonna do that. And my my my and and and thank you for giving me opportunity. My intention today was to really come and say, okay, I'm gonna share my personal experience. I'm not really gonna talk much about what you know other people are going through because I'm not really educated on that, and I haven't really opened myself to to even wanting to be educated on it because I didn't have the luxury to do it. You understand? I would think arrogant or ignorant, whatever, but I didn't have the luxury. You would think I was like, yo, and do my thing. So, yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Thank you so much. What was most impactful to me about this conversation with SEPO was his willingness to highlight the number of ways in which rising rent affects an individual, how it curbs one's ability to save, their ability to show up for themselves and for their loved ones in the way that they know how and would want to, the manner in which it bends someone's social life, and just the general feeling of anxiety that comes from an expense that grows beyond control. CIPO ultimately personalized this conversation, and I believe this is the part that folks will most resonate with the listening to The Future of Work. And a special thank you to Sipo Hadebe for such a refreshing conversation. Thank you to the team that helped bring this episode together. This episode was hosted by me, Zinkla Magazi, recorded by Ngosana from Studio 44 Cape Town. It was scripted by me, Zinkle Magazi, and Andilem Somsomi, and with sound design done by Andilem Somi. You can listen to all our episodes on Buzz Sprout and also SoundCloud. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram. For our next bonus episode, I speak with Zuide Nduande, one of the co-founding members of the jazz band Kujanga. We talk about the intersection of politics, of music, and access to space as well as resistance. It's going to be a good one. Make sure to have a listen.