On CGS, Shame, Barriers to Talking, and Bridging

In this episode we provide some background on the Asheville Group Psychotherapy Society and why we started this podcast. On the heels of another weekend training intensive through the Center for Group Studies, we talk about CGS and why we love it so much. We discuss the very powerful fear of hurting other people's feelings and how that keeps us quiet in group, along with the common aversion to "taking up space." Lastly, we reflect on our experience of hosting a free three-session process group and the important role that bridging plays in connecting group members.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

You are listening to the Present Moment Process Podcast, the official podcast of the Asheville Group Psychotherapy Society, with your hosts Chris Byrne and Sarah Simpson.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Hi Sarah.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Hi Chris.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Good to see you. So yeah, I was thinking on my walk earlier today that we we did the initial episode, I guess what was that, a month ago?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

At least.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

But yeah, I was thinking maybe it would be helpful if we just stated our like, yeah, why are we doing this podcast? And what's the point of AGPS, which is the Asheville Group Psychotherapy Society that we started? Um, which really is just to bring awareness and access to and about uh group psychotherapy and process groups in general in the Asheville area, but hopefully to wherever people might be listening to this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, that's good. We should have a mission statement. That would be that would basically be it, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Yeah, because we love group. That's why we started the society. That's how kind of the basis of how we met. And uh you and I co-lead a group together, uh, process group for therapists. And yeah, we just love group. So we're group groupies, and we're trying to uh have an outlet to talk about group. And I think the initial impetus of starting the uh AGPS in Asheville was because uh I moved here almost three years ago and discovered that Asheville is not a very group-centric town. It's quite the opposite, actually. There's not a lot of process groups in Asheville.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, and you are coming from Austin where there's tons.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Right, yeah, lots, lots and lots of groups in Austin. So yeah, I think that was kind of the reason for us starting AGPS was to like spread the word, bring awareness, have a place where other people that are interested in group can meet and talk about groups.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, also an educational forum, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Right. Yeah. So yeah, we do a once um a once-a-month meeting on Tuesdays at 6 p.m. The second Tuesday of the month is our uh monthly AGPS meeting, and we usually meet for an hour and 15 minutes at Sarah's office, and we usually have an article that we'll put out. Well, yeah, pretty much every time we meet, we'll send out an article that we sometimes discuss, sometimes not. People will um we at least mention it. Yeah, we'll at least reference it, something interesting from the article. And yeah, usually they're articles that are um modern modern analytic related. Oftentimes it's an Ormond article or spotness, but we've also discussed discussed articles by uh people like Aaron Black and Ronnie Levine. Ronnie Levine, right, among others. Um, and then yeah, there's a lot of people that come that run groups, or we have one person that actually teaches the group psychotherapy class at um Lenora Ryan. So yeah, people will like staff cases or talk about you know consultation opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah. We actually have nine people who've RSVP'd for this Tuesday's meeting.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Is that our largest attendance? Yeah. Nice. So we we are growing. But yeah, so then it feels like I think the podcast was an extension of this because you already have a podcast that you've done for several. How many years now?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

About five.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Right. So you're in a you are a an established podcaster with your Time and Other Thieves podcast, which is a great podcast to check out. Um, which often you do, you know, you had a great episode on group therapy, or a few, but one that was like just kind of like a real specific kind of like I think you really focused on Ormond's um book and some of the key concepts.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

This one.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

The group therapy experience from theory to practice, which is a great right here at my fingertips. Um the uh the go-to book on modern analytic process groups. If you're looking for something to read.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah. And ever since I've gotten interested in group, I've pretty much approached my Time in Other Thieves podcast with that coloring my perspective on whatever else I might be talking about, which is usually a certain book. So even Howard Thurman's Jesus and the Disinherited, I was reading through a lens colored by group. Oh wow. Because once it's in my head, uh that's how it tends to work for me. Like everything I read or encounter kind somehow applies to the thing I'm really interested in.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

So that's awesome. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

That has been group for about three years now.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah, and you've even done a couple of presentations or like webinars on the one you did that was like spirituality and group. The other was stoicism, which you made an episode out of. Or did you make episodes out of both of those?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Nice. That's cool. Um, but yeah, so that was kind of the impetus of starting this podcast was like to have a place for us to talk about our experience in group and our love of group, and maybe we'll get some guests on one day.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Oh, well, definitely will. I mean, part of my vision for this podcast is to interview other um members of our little society, the Asheville Group Psychotherapy Society. So the teacher you mentioned, Hannah, I'd love to have her on. Nice as a guest, and Stuart and Brett. Um, and now maybe some more people are starting to come regularly. So, yeah, anybody who is open to coming on the show, I'd love to chat with them.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Something that is very important to our ongoing learning and experience of group is the the Center for Group Studies, which I think we were gonna maybe talk about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, the Center for Group Studies in New York City. Um, they offer these weekend intensive trainings three times a year. And I started going, I did my first one before I started my first group. So that was in May of 2024 that I did that. Um, and I've been doing them consecutively, haven't missed one since then. And then you started a couple weekends after me. You just did your fifth weekend and I just did my seventh.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Correct. Yep. And we were actually in the same process group for that together.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

And for those of you that don't know what CGS is, they're sort of like the main modern analytic group therapy training center that's based in New York City, and um they have a whole training program that you can take and graduate from. But part of that is they do these three times a year uh training blocks or weekend training programs that consist of uh Friday through Sunday, where you are assigned to a process group that kind of goes throughout the weekend. So I think you end up doing five uh 90-minute process groups with the same process group throughout the weekend, and then there's like a supervision block for 90 minutes, there's a training group block for 90 minutes, and then there's a couple of workshops that are also 90 minutes, everything is 90 minutes that uh they talk about an article, and each block covers a specific topic. Like I think this last weekend was special issues and counter transference. And yeah, it's just a really awesome experience. A lot of oftentimes people, when you start doing CGS, it's intense, it's uh interesting, it's awesome, it's stimulating. Um, it can be like a little intimidating being in a process group with 15 people who yeah, they're big. Yeah, when you first start, like my first weekend, I didn't know anybody, although you and I were in the same process group that weekend. But yeah, and then you start to as the weekends go on, you start to see the same people and get to be, you know, oftentimes in the same process group with the same people.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Some of whom you don't want to be in a group with, some of them you do, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:57

A lot of different different personalities.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

And you're like, damn it, I got this guy again.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Right, right, which offers a lot of opportunity to be um pushed to our our uh our edges of emotional discomfort and yeah, and they and those people will inevitably give you a chance, another chance to let them know how they impact you. Right, yes. Let them know how they impact you, find out how you impact them. The goal of group is to sit with and experience and be aware of and express, put words to the emotions, the feelings that you're having towards other members in the group, towards the leader, and just within yourself and just sitting, sitting with and naming emotions can be a yeah, uh no, no easy feat, as simple as it sounds.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah, it can be very scary. I was really noticing and still, you know, do the aversion to hurting someone's feelings, you know, is very powerful.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Totally that was coming up for you a lot this past weekend.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, there was someone in our group who I you know I genuinely like very much, but there's a way they have of talking that I find disconnecting and boring. Yes, and I so wanted to say something like that, but it was just like, no way, man. We are not doing that. That is going to hurt their feelings, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

And and then what might happen if you hurt their feelings? That's the question that we always ask as group leaders of like, and then what might happen. So their feelings are hurt, but yeah, it's like, well, then I have to sit with the fact that I hurt their feelings, or it might get mad at me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, it's definitely deep down an aversion to not wanting to have your own feelings around what might happen if you hurt them. So it might be more selfish than it sounds.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yeah, of not wanting to to sit with your own the feelings that come up of from potentially having hurt them or from whatever their reaction might be.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Right, right. We say, Oh, I don't want to hurt you, but maybe even more than that, we don't want to feel what we would feel if it did hurt them.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Right, which for me could be shame, it could be guilt. And you know, actually, I have a group leader that likes to say those are sort of like non-feelings or or in inhibitory affect that shame is you know, sort of like a cover, like underneath shame, there could be sadness or fear or like you know, shame of oh, if I hurt their feelings, the fear is like I'm a bad person, or just the sadness around how I feel about myself. I mean, but you're right, there is a selfish, a self-centered component, even though we're not aware of it, of sort of not wanting to feel our own shitty feelings. That's kind of what it all comes back to, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Right, right. So wait, your group leader says shame is what?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, my my leader, Dave Kaplowitz, I'm in a training group with him, which is sort of like a process group for therapists. And uh he said one day when someone said they were feeling shame or guilt, he said, Yeah, those are sort of like non-feelings. Um, and he didn't literally mean those are not feelings. I mean, yes, you feel the sense of shame in your body, and but I think he meant from an emotional standpoint. Um, I've heard them also referred to as in inhibitory affect, meaning that like if you're feeling shame, there's always something underneath. The shame is not allowing you to actually feel uh, or if you weren't feeling shame, you would be feeling a deeper sense of sadness or fear, or you know, shame and guilt are often made up of those some kind of combination of those two, oftentimes. Um, and maybe there's a place where they're just purely that emotion, but I mean that makes sense to me. Because if you just say I'm feeling shame, it's like, well, shame. Yeah, there feels like that dark kind of heaviness in my chest sometimes. But if I really tune into it, there's like a sadness and a fear, or like a ooh, like I'm bad, or I'm yeah, because you know, shame literally says like guilt is like I did a bad thing, shame is I am bad, to make it real real simple. And if that's true, then there's a real like sadness and fear to that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, and it's also shame is very like insular, like it's just like happening inside you. It's more yeah, you're feeling about yourself as a opposite to an object.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Correct, you're right. You're very cut off from other it's hard to feel shame and feel something towards someone, or or feel can definitely, I mean, almost impossible to feel connected to someone when you're feeling shame.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I I read somewhere or I heard that the etymology of shame, it's like to hide or to cover. So it's like, you know, that whole thing about shame really like living in the darkness of being cut off and disconnected. So I think the idea of shame being a non-feeling is like if you're just in shame, it's hard to feel anything else if you're just like paying attention to the shame. But if you like were to go deeper, then you for me, I guess in my experience, it's yeah, usually some interesting combo of it's like when you blend colors, you know, the primary colors of like yellow, red, and blue, right? And then when you mix them, it's like this this much fear, this much sadness, depending on what the the circumstances are or what the thing is, that yeah, shame feels like it's usually made up of those. Maybe there's anger in there too, or I don't know, disgust. Definitely not happiness, though.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Right. Makes me wonder if sham, if sham and shame are etymologically related.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Because sham is a way of covering oh, like when something is a sham, like it's like, oh yeah, that's interesting. But yeah, that fear of um going back to what we were saying about CGS around like uh not wanting to hurt someone's feelings, and that being like, yeah, because I can see there's almost like a shame. Yeah, like if I were to tell you, tell someone else, like, hey, you're really frustrating, or I really feel annoyed.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Or you're losing me right now. Every time you start talking, you lose me.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, that was never about what you're feeling or what's happening in the group.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

It's something that was the I think a big piece of it with this person was talking about stuff outside of the room, yeah, or concepts and things that were outside of the room. And I mean, even though hearing you say that, like when you start to talk about that or like that, or talk about what you're saying right now, you lose me. That actually feels very connected, like that's a much um relational, much more relational way than saying, like, oh, I feel annoyed or angry, or yeah, it's like you you lose me. But even saying that, there's that fear.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

We could talk about our free group.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

I was just gonna say that, yeah. So, yeah, we're because we're doing a free three group series that meets for three Thursday evenings in a row, um, for three 90-minute groups. And we got 10 people who signed up.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

And we did um 10 20 to 30 minute consultations, yeah, which I think after we talked about it and realized, wow, we spent five hours of our time, which I think was still time well spent because it was better than you know, we if we hadn't talked to those people, I think that would have been very different going.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

If we had like no idea, you know, no information, no experience of these people.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Totally. I'm really glad we did the consults.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Right. Imagine doing that. That would be an interesting experiment if you had I'm calling them like a flashbang group where it's just like it's just a group for like three sessions, you know, boom, that's it. You don't know these people, and uh, but if you did that without having consults and just have people sign up, which is what people do in the um, you know, the Austin group, yeah, or CGS too, yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

They don't vet anyone, like anybody can go to CGS.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Totally. They don't that is so they don't fucking vet anyone. So anyone, like I remember one weekend when I did the I I don't know why they call them workshops because there's just like a three-hour process group, but yeah, so it's like they call them workshops, but it's a Sunday afternoon, they'll have a topic and then usually give you an article to read, and then the process group, they don't talk about the article. I'll mention the article, it's just a process group for like three hours with a break. Um, I did two of those, and there was a guy in one of those who was a therapist, but he refused to talk and he made that clear. Like it wasn't that he he talked about his refusal to talk, like it wasn't like he was just like zipped, zipped lips note, but it was like when someone asked him something, he said, I didn't know that this was an experiential process group, even though it clearly says that on the website when you sign up for it. And he said, I refuse to participate, but he stayed and sat in the group for the entire group, so everyone just was angry and pissed off at him and projecting all this stuff onto him, and it was like wild. Um, but he just refused to talk. And yeah, I mean, that was interesting and uh uh cool learning experience, but yeah, they've met no one. There could be someone totally unstable who signs up for one of these weekends, and how would they handle that? I wonder.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

I know. I'm surprised I haven't encountered more unstable people or any really.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Right. I mean, yeah, so for those of you that don't know, CGS, even though it's this like training center for modern analytic process groups, they have people that sign up that are going through the whole entire program, not just like one-offs, that are not therapists. I mean, there's uh several people that are in the drama community, a couple of actors, uh, there's one guy that's an anthropologist. Yeah, there's people that are not therapists that are in these process groups, which is fine. And that's uh, but yeah, they don't vet anyone. Um, and that's the same thing that they do for like AGPS for the Austin Group Psychotherapy Society, when they have their institutes, um, they do them like once or twice a year. Well, they'll do these like Saturday and Sunday, you know, process groups, and they'll usually have 15 to 18 people sign up. And yeah, the therapist that leads it has met nobody.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Or I mean some of the people they might know, but well, uh that's what I and we've talked about that doing that, and uh I definitely want to revisit that.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

I really want to do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah, maybe in like the fall, like November or something in this free group, which went really well. Um I was so delighted with how our first session went last Thursday. Yeah, um it's so much fun. People are so interesting. They really are people so much going on inside of just one person, and then when you put 10 of them together with the invitation to say what you're feeling in the moment, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, you never know what's gonna happen. Yeah, but yeah, so I think that was sort of the idea we wanted to again. This felt like it was like a community offering to, you know, because a lot of people in Asheville don't know what group is or don't fully understand process groups.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah, and as we touched on in the last episode, we get the impression they don't fully appreciate what they are.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Correct. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

They might seem to know what they are, but it's like, well, if you knew you would be in a group.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Right. Especially, especially if you're a therapist. Yeah. Like if for like a lot of therapists, you know, the belief that like you're doing your own work, and um, for most therapists, that means being in individual therapy at different points in your life, but being in a process group is like a whole different experience because that's like live. Like in living color, like interacting with people, emotions coming up, and things that just don't happen in individual therapy.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah. Some people say that individual therapy is just prep for group.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Correct, right. Or they like the way that I was kind of sold on group is that it was like graduate level therapy. But yeah, so we I don't know. There's a sense that a lot of people don't appreciate the power of group. So we wanted to offer this free um group series to kind of like give people the chance to experience a process group for a very time-limited short experience and just see how it goes. And then hopefully we can offer a longer intensive, like over a weekend or even just a Saturday or something.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

And which would not be free.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Which would not be free. That would definitely yes, as long as people to pay something. Because we also find that, you know, I think that was a concern we had with doing this series was um if people don't have to pay anything, there's no, you know, they don't have any investment or there's no energetic emotional exchange. It's like, are they gonna take this seriously? Are they even gonna show up once they sign up? You know?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah. Um that was a win right out of the gate. Uh, all 10 people showed up.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Right. Yep. Which I think probably was because we met with them and they already had the investment of at least 30 minutes of their time.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

So right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

We didn't we didn't freak anybody out, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Or if we did, they were still curious enough to come. But uh yeah, I noticed that was yeah, that felt really yeah, I felt delighted like you. I was really like it was just felt very stimulating and like energized, and there was a couple people that I think were kind of bringing a lot of stimulating energy that I think was yeah, uh good material to work with.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

And you know, I already was just feeling myself getting existential about it with how short it is. Um, you know, we want to we want people to have the lived experience of how much can happen in a process group and how much there is to explore and understand and practice.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I mean, I was already feeling that after that first session. It's like, oh my gosh, we're only gonna meet two more times. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

I know. It's like just just the tip of the iceberg. But even in that, I felt like it's interesting because I don't know what the other people were thinking, or you know, what the other group, the the members of the group were thinking of like, oh man, is this I mean, I'm sure they were thinking a lot of things and obviously feeling a lot of things. But like for for me, for our experience, I'm like, no, this this was this is group, like that was doing group, and that was a great first group. Like, if this was an ongoing process group, that would have been a fucking awesome first group. So yeah, I had the same sense of like, oh man, if this was the first group and we only have two more of these, like, man, this group could do some great work together, but we only have two more sessions.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

I know. I'm almost like, how could we keep this going?

SPEAKER_00 25:14

But well, the hope is, you know, the hope is that they will want to they will want to keep it going and we'll figure out a way to keep it going. Yeah, it might not be all one group.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Right. Um, but yeah, yeah. Hopefully, I think that was yeah, the other goal in mind was if this piques enough people's interest or tickles that, you know, that urge to delve into the the psyche and uh have a new interpersonal experience that that would at least get some some of the people to want to join a process group, maybe one of ours, or at least somebody, yeah, to begin someone's journey of being in a process group.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yeah. One of the things that's so fun too about the early days of a new group is all the bridging you get to do and need to do.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

The you know, the earlier in a group's development, the more bridging should be happening to make those connections happen.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And it's really fun and creative to to do that.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Yeah, yeah. We definitely did a lot of bridging. You get to yeah, that's true. You get to do more bridging. Whereas if it was like a group that had already been together for a year or I mean, yeah, even you know, whatever, six months, nine months, some of the bridging we were doing would be like a little bit like almost like we were too active, maybe in the group. Right. Um but with a new group, it's no, it's you're just constantly making connections between different people and bringing people in that haven talked to getting the whole group to respond.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah. I mean, Ormond said, even with well-established groups, you should pretty much everything you say as a leader should be a bridge.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Which I find that interesting, and I could see how that, yes, that makes sense. And also I'm like, but how? That just seems so wildly. I mean, I see how you could do that, but also it just seems like it's a little bit awkward or something sometimes. I don't know. And I noticed that the leaders that I have aren't always bridging. I mean, they're yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Well, it can be it can feel kind of aggressive sometimes to bridge. It's like someone in in one of my groups, I did a bridge recently, and she was like, That was very direct. I was like, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

It was in my Friday group, something similar like that happened uh this past week where I bridged, um, I forgot what it was, but I asked someone else, like, well, why do you think they blah blah blah? And that person said, Well, I don't know, I'd rather ask them.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Well, right, but that's not what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Right. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, I don't know what they're thinking, but or yeah, I don't know what they're thinking, and I'd rather ask them directly. I'm like, but yeah, but why what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah. Can you see the benefit in saying what you think they're thinking?

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Of you associating, and because then that gives us something to go, that gives us information about you and also your experience of them.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

The whole yeah. But I guess that could be seen as a resistance.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah. And it can be very soothing for the person being asked about to hear themselves be talked about.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Correct. To not be asked directly. I think that's the the object-oriented questions can be uh overwhelming or you know, almost too vulnerable sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Ego-oriented, you mean?

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Oh, I'm sorry, the ego, yeah. If you're asking someone an ego-oriented question, like, well, yeah, what are you feeling right now if they're already in an emotional and vulnerable state, which makes sense. But yeah, that's funny how people have that kind of like awkward resistance to the bridging sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

And in case listeners don't even know what bridging is, um, you've probably figured it out. But an example is instead of asking someone how they feel, instead of asking Susan, how do you feel right now, you would ask Bruce, what do you think Susan's feeling right now? And then you're helping create a connection between Bruce and Susan, and um, we're getting to learn about both of them at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

And also in asking Bruce, the entire group ends up thinking how they would respond as well. So everyone's engaged.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Right. Or yeah, asking someone else, you know, what do you think Sarah means when she says connected or something? Yeah, just anytime you're asking the group as a whole or another member about someone else, or the group as a whole, you could be bridging why do you think the group is being so quiet right now? Yeah, there was a bridge. I liked, I think I mentioned this to you that um I hadn't like thought of as concretely, or you know, maybe I've been aware of it, or maybe I've even done it before or had it asked of me, but um the sort of bridge of like if someone like if you were talking to me, if you said something to me or asked me a question, and then the leader asked me, what do you think Sarah is feeling towards you right now? That's an interesting bridge.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

I just found that I liked something about that. It's like asking the person who is being asked what the person talking to them is feeling.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Like more of like a direct, I don't know what you would call that, a bridge.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

And then Jacob came up with he came up with wild bridging. The Jacob in question is Jacob Winkler, who is one of our teachers and who runs the Masters of Group Therapy Club that we both attend three times a week on Zoom.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

What is wild bridging?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

It's like you just assume you just assign a feeling to someone, even if you don't know that they're actually feeling it, and you're like, Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Sarah, why is why is John so bored right now? Or uh yeah, like Peter, Jill's just sitting over there thinking, man, why won't he shut the fuck up?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

That's a very Jacob kind of question, I think.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

We'll have to have him on the podcast sometime.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah, for sure. And we'll just stare at him and not say anything.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

There you go. Yeah. See what it takes to make Jacob uncomfortable if there's anything that could possibly Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

See if we can make him cry.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Thank you for listening to the Present Moment Process Podcast, the official podcast of the Asheville Group Psychotherapy Society. For more information, you can visit our website at ashevillegroups.org or email us at presentmoment process at gmail.com.