How do I handle negative feedback in my community? With Lindsay Rothfeld, Head of Community at Kira Learning

In this episode, we’re hearing from Stuck in Community Time Out. Our letter deals with a community builder who presented some negative feedback, along with ideas for improvement in someone else's community, but was shut down by the founder.

To better help Stuck in Community Time Out, I invited Lindsay Rothfeld as my guest expert. From scaling ambassador programs and live events to launching community platforms and lifecycle campaigns, Lindsay has spent the last 10 years building spaces where users feel connected, empowered, and excited to contribute.

So, tune in for valuable tools and tips for approaching challenging feedback in your community with empathy, transparency, curiosity, and kindness.

In this episode:

(03:48) The communitea: Stuck in Community Time Out’s letter

(05:54) One of Lindsay's own experiences handling negative feedback in her community

(10:22) Leading versus moderating and the real enemy of positivity

(12:30) Valuable practices and tools to help you respond and not react to feedback

(20:34) Reframe what challenging feedback means to you

(23:11) To remove or not remove posts, and how to go about it with transparency

(27:05) Having an entrepreneurial mindset can get in the way of your community

(30:36) How to masterfully approach those sharing negative feedback

(33:57) Ways removing posts can backfire

(36:30) The truth about today's letter

(41:00) Giving community members the space and tools to give feedback

Resources Mentioned:

🎧 Get the  next advanced-level mindset work in Dear Bri Episode 20 with Charmaine Jennings.

🎤 Continue down the rabbit hole of tough conversations in your community with Dear Bri Episode 11

🎙️ Learn all about a framework for  thinking about the troublemakers in your community with

Dear Bri Episode 7

❤️ Sign up for Heartbeat all-in-one community platform.

💛 Join Ember.

Lindsay Rothfeld

🖥️ Website

📱 LinkedIn

Bri Leever

🖥️ Website

📹 Youtube

📱LinkedIn

Want your story to be next? Submit an anonymous letter about your community conundrum, fiasco, drama, or other dilemma here.

*Dear Bri is produced by Ideablossoms.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This episode is so near and dear to my heart for reasons that I will not spoil for you, dear listener, but please make sure that you listen all the way to the end to get the greater context for this episode. I was honestly really nervous to film it for reasons that will become clear as you listen further on. And I felt so strongly that this episode needed to be in season two because how we handle challenging feedback about our community says so much about who we are as leaders. And I honestly think that developing the skill around receiving challenging feedback is just that. It's a muscle, it's a skill. It's something that we build over time and that we're probably not naturally always going to get perfectly off the bat. So I loved this letter. I love this conversation. I take it for myself. I use it as a reflection of how I'm leading in my own community. And I think in a climate and society where any type of conflict and challenging conversations are, it's so much easier to sweep them under the rug. I think communities are one of the digital fronts where we are challenged to and called upon to have these difficult conversations, whether that be about hot topics or feedback from your members about your community. And so I hope you enjoyed this episode. I know that I did. Welcome to Deer Bree, an advice column for community conundrums, fiascos, and drama. This season of Deer Brie is sponsored by our friends over at Heartbeat. Heartbeat is an all-in-one community platform, and it's the one I chose to host my own community. Your members can finally have events, conversation, content, and even courses in one distraction-free, intimate, customized home. I chose Heartbeat for three reasons. First, Heartbeat is unparalleled in their events management features. Events are a core part of my community architecture, and their features make my life so much easier. Second is segmentation. It's super easy to break my community into smaller, more niche subgroups and create a more customized experience for that group in Heartbeat. And finally, their courses. Being able to host my educational materials and learning journey in a community-first platform makes my community that much more valuable and retention that much stickier. I'm an affiliate with Heartbeat, which means when you sign up through my link in the show notes, I get paid a small amount and no extra charge to you. Thank you for supporting my work in that way. And finally, I usually record this podcast from Hawaii Island. So a special thank you to the Kanakamali people on whose land I currently reside. Our guest today is Lindsay Rothfeld, the head of community at Kira Learning, an AI-powered education technology platform for K through 12. And her role prior to that was the senior community engagement manager at DocuSign. Lindsay, I know your new role is very fresh. So congratulations on the new role. Excited for that transition for you. Thanks so much. Yeah. From scaling ambassador programs and live events to launching community platforms and lifestyle campaigns, she has spent the last 10 years building spaces where users feel connected, empowered, and excited to contribute. She's born and raised in New York City. Welcome to the podcast, Lindsay. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks, Brie. I'm so excited to be here. Wonderful. Are you ready for the letter I've prepared for you?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I'm very ready. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

The eyes get wide. I love it. Yes. Dear Brie, I'm riding in with a situation that has me genuinely torn and slightly burned. I recently posted in a community I was a part of, yet past tense, to share something I've been sitting with for a while. The vibe had shifted. What once felt warm and connected had started to feel more like a pitch fest. I asked if others had noticed this too, and a bunch of members chimed in saying they felt it as well. It became a thread of people sharing how they honestly felt with some good ideas included for how we could turn it around. Then the post got deleted. Shortly after, I received a message from the founder. I was asked to imagine a new community member coming in and seeing negativity like this, and how that might dissuade the new member from giving their all into the community. Something that could transform their business and their life. The sense was this post caused harm to members who would be distracted from building their businesses. It was implied that as a community builder myself, I should really know better. Ouch. I genuinely wasn't trying to stir drama. I believed that surfacing the concern openly would spark positive change. I was invested, literally giving time and money to be a part of this. I wanted the space to live up to its promise. I know firsthand how tricky feedback can be to receive in community settings, but I thought this community would value an open discussion on how to make it better. So here's my question for you. How do we navigate negative feedback in community? When does open discussion cross a line? And when does it help support the growth we want to see? How can we as community leaders invite real conversation without it becoming a pylon? And was I totally out of line for bringing this up publicly? Curious how you'd handle it. Signed, stuck in community timeout. And I'm curious if you can relate to this situation, either as the manager or as the member posting. What strikes you from this letter?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yeah. This letter is equally frustrating and heartbreaking to me, I think, both from the community members' point of view, of like they said, really caring and being so discouraged. And also just frustrating. This was such an opportunity for the community leader. And I do understand that it's a difficult thing to navigate for sure. And yeah, I've experienced this. So a few years ago, in two jobs prior to my current gig, I was leading a community of ambassadors for a product. And one of our newer ambassadors was this lovely woman. Honestly, she I think she had difficulty navigating technology a bit. And I think there were some aspects of our onboarding that were genuinely confusing for her. As part of this ambassador program, we did have the ability to pay our ambassadors for certain activities. And so there were some things like contracts and finances and all these processes that they had to go through. And she was very frustrated about some of the processes, mostly like our legal finance departments and who are not really trained to work with community members. And they would just post in our public forum constantly, either quick questions or frustrations, sometimes in all caps. And at the time looking at these posts, I think I was really stressed out by some other things. And I was seeing these posts. And in my mind, I'm like, oh, this could be a DM. Like it's frustrating that these are popping up here. But I got on a call with her. And I think that just tapped open into all this opportunity with this individual. She really just wanted to be heard. And I think she was hitting a wall with the other interactions that she was having. And so by giving this base for her to just express her feelings and ask questions and to know that someone was listening to her. And I really just had to sit there and listen, to be honest. And you know, I think that was a really good learning experience for me. I did make the misstep in reflection of deleting some of the comments, like some of the posts that she put in the group. And when I reflect, I think that was a missed opportunity on my end to make it a learning experience for everyone. If one person is having these questions, then potentially many others are, or if one person has these feelings. And I could have really shown the whole community that we were listening. It's great that I took the time to get on a call with this one member, but I think that we could have done a better job of showing the whole community, even if that problem was solved with her. So I guess, like in looking back, I learned that those who seem to be the most frustrated and are potentially the voice that's popping up that maybe you wish you could silence some of the times. There's really an opportunity to work with them and understand why they're in the community and how you can be a better champion for them and give them that platform. And then I also think it's a great opportunity to show the whole community that you listen and there was someone who had a struggle, had an opinion, and create that open forum for others to chime in.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

So that's really good. Yeah, what I heard and what you shared is, and this is something I've done a lot of reflection on, and I think it takes some time for us to get our whole posture around. The opposite of positivity in your community is not negativity, it's ambivalence. And when you come across negativity, what you are perceiving as negativity in your community, that is like one to three degrees away. If we just pivot slightly, that is one to three degrees away from positivity. There's energy being expended. And I love how you framed that perfectly in your story saying we had somebody in our community who's like exerting a lot of effort. I think so many community managers see that and think, oh, that's the enemy. That's the enemy of this space, that's the enemy of our positive culture. And I think that's one of my biggest advices for community builders in the context of this letter is the enemy of positivity is not negativity, it's ambivalence.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

I love that. And I think that what this community leader was doing was not leading, it was moderating, and in a way that wasn't going to move the community forward. Community inherently is emotional, like it's made of human beings that have wide spectrum of emotions. And someone who was leading a community, including all those emotions, shouldn't just silence the emotions. They should try to steward them and figure out how the community can evolve together. And I think that's really where this leader went wrong. It's sad because in the letter they said that solutions were being proposed. And so there was value that was potentially coming out of that conversation. And it's sad that wasn't seen as an opportunity to grow the community forward.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, it's a real practice to because I totally know what that feels like. I know what it feels like to see, like, quote, helpful feedback, and you're just like, oh God, not this again. And that has everything to do with me and usually very little to do with the actual post. And it's why I think it's such a high calling as a community builder and manager, conflict mediator, moderator. Like you really have to own your own shit if you're gonna do this job. Like you really have to tune to your own state. I remember back in the day when we ran our ambassador community on Facebook groups. So you can just imagine all the fun we had.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

That's where mine was too.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Uh-huh. Yep. I'd say it is different in all-in-one community platforms these days. And rather than resisting or shaming myself for my reaction to something that was very like alarming or triggering, I started to just own it in the response. So I would say something like, Hey, to be honest, like this is really hard for me to read. I know that the intention is you're not personally attacking me, but because this is something that I'm responsible for, it's I'm feeling a little bit defensive. So here's how I'm feeling, here's how I'm gonna move forward regardless. But I found that owning my own state before responding really helped one, cool me down. But number two, it also signaled to the other person, I'm a human too, and we're on the same team. And even though I'm feeling defensive, I'm gonna like really do my best to approach this from a place of collaboration and not view it that you're attacking me, but that you have so much energy that you want to make this better.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

That's great. I think so much of community is about communication and emotional intelligence, being able to actively listen. And I notice that even when you're talking to me, you are repeating back what I am saying. And I think that's such a great practice as well. Like you're showing that you're listening and then owning your own emotions, like you said. I think that's great. And I feel like for community leaders, while often we might be the face of a community, right? We're the one engaging, I think we also have to be really low ego because, like you said, when people express distasteful feelings or give feedback about a community space that you, the community leader, have invested so much of your energy and time and personality into, you really can't take it personally, or you can try to not take it personally and not be defensive. Like I think being defensive is not the right way forward, but I think acknowledging that you too are a human being with feelings, who cares, is a really authentic way of engaging with a community member.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah. Yeah. I have so many different rabbit trails in my mind, but I just one quick one I want to go down. Like in that moment where you're feeling really defensive, you're feeling like you're personally being attacked. What's like a couple of things that people can do to re-center if maybe naming it is one of them? Do you have anything you'd add to what we can do to come down from that situation?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, I think an easy thing to do is to step away and breathe for a bit. Like often, we want to engage right away. And I guess the nice thing about having communities on a digital forum is that it does allow us the opportunity to pause and really think through our thoughts and emotions and be intentional about how we respond. I feel like it's easy to have a knee-jerk reaction, but even just taking a step away, taking a walk, like getting your mind off of the situation and allowing yourself to diffuse a bit allows you to approach it a little bit farther removed than in the heat of the moment. And unless it's a situation in which something has to be addressed right away, for the most part, it's okay if you take a few hours, even 24 hours often. It really depends on the situation. But I think that is really important to allow yourself to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

That's really good. Yeah, and I'll add to that something I've added to my own practice. Listeners might not know that I'm a little bit of a hothead than I can get. Like I edit that part out. There's a reason my business is called Ember. We bring the heat, and sometimes they have to cool it down. And something that I found tremendously helpful, other than my very mindful and curious partner who helps me come down in these situations, is ChatGPT. So I it's been so cathartic and therapeutic, both whether I am texting my family group chat or I'm just anything that feels charged, like anything where I'm noticing like my heart rate is up, I have spent more than the allotted amount of time on this response. I'll actually allow myself to be really, really petty and write a response that is like the f like the reactive first response. And then it just gets it out for me. But oh, and actually I wanted to highlight this first. What you said about responding overreacting is huge. Plus one to that. And take your reaction, write it out, throw it in chat GPT and say, Hey, I want to come up with a response that takes no like low blows, that is thoughtful, that is caring. My goal is to see this person's perspective. My goal is X, Y, and Z. And then just saying to Chat GPT, come up with this is what I wrote as my petty reaction, but I want you to turn it into a thoughtful response.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

I love that. It's so good at that. And I do it too. And I so I actually will use the voice, like the microphone with Chat GPT now, where I'm just speaking to it. And that kind of allows me to really just go off the cuff because I think even the practice of writing something out depends, I think doesn't get every sentiment in there. And yeah, I think just being able to blurt it all out in the heat of the moment, maybe there's no one around me that I can do that to, but I think that is a really great tool. So yeah, plus one on that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

I love the microphone. Now, if my neighborhood, because like I'll walk my dog and do voice to text all the time, if they didn't know enough of my drama, now they're really gonna know how petty I am. That's really good. And I oh wait an extra thought. Oh. And perhaps this is like an advanced level for our community builders. I did another episode on Charmaine where we actually did some of the mindset coaching, and it was in the context of trying to not compare yourself to other community builders and people in your community. But this same the practice that we used, the judge your neighbor worksheet by Byron Katie, is actually, I would say that's like next advanced level mindset work on this stuff. Like when someone posts something that results in a judgment that you have about that person or what they should be doing or what you need from them. I would, yeah, highly encourage using Byron Katie's the work, or also known as like her inquiry process, to turn it around and understand where you might be judging yourself and where this person is just like manifesting that for you and reflecting it back from you, just to take it a couple layers deeper. I love that. Tactical things.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

I think a beautiful thing about leading a community is that you are going to have all of these different perspectives. Like if everyone just had the same thoughts, the same views, our jobs wouldn't be as interesting as fun. We wouldn't be learning and growing as much. And so I think that it's really great when community leaders do have these experiences. Really helps us grow and being able to put yourself in others' shoes is something that is very valuable.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Wow. Yeah, I hope everybody caught that. That was like hugely profound. So what I heard you say is I see this post in my community, I start to get activated. And rather than thinking, like, like, why does this person have to do this? Why are they making my life so hard? Now I have like my days derailed or my emotions are derailed. I hear you saying, Oh, cool. This is another opportunity for me to practice empathy and compassion and working through my own stuff that is all coming up with this person's what I perceive as unhelpful suggestion. Which is huge. I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

That's a really if you're not looking to be a self-reflective individual, community leading is for sure not the right career or practice for you, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, that's really good. I needed to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

It's both empathy and like your and understanding and appreciating your own emotions as well. Like you have to acknowledge that it's okay that you're feeling a certain way in the moment as well, as well as respecting the emotions and perspectives of those in your community.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

This podcast is sponsored by Ember Consulting, where I'm the founder and head community creator. At Ember, we help people who are familiar with running their business on content, coaching, or consulting become community powered. As you hear in this podcast, creating a community is really tough, and managing it can be even harder. So don't do it alone. Whether you're looking to launch a new community or pivot your strategy, our one-on-one consulting helps you skip the learning curve and do it right the first time. And when you're ready to belong to a space just for community creators learning, testing, and growing their communities together, check out the Ember community. Now, back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. If there is something posted that is truly like hate speech or derogatory, I would say that is something to be removed, but also to address in the community as well. Like we've seen that there have been posts coming up, and we want to reiterate that this is a safe space. Like I just think that in any decision you make of removing posts by not acknowledging it, I don't like that. Like there, that is not transparent to me, and you're not creating an opportunity for people to learn and also know that you are actively reviewing every post and thinking intentionally about the environment. I've run communities where we are pretty explicit in the guidelines that we don't want people to promote businesses or products. That's not the purpose of this particular group. And I often struggle with whether those should be removed because they're against guidelines, or if the community manager or moderator should comment on that post as, hey, just want to remind you that this is not the space for sharing something like this. Really hope in the future that we can abide by those roles and potentially not remove that. And if that same individual posts something of the same milk again to address it directly with that individual. I don't know. Have you experienced that before? What's your take on what should be removed or not?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think each community is a little bit different, and you're gonna have those boundaries in place in your community guidelines, or you're gonna discover really quickly what you don't have in there and what you do need in there. So I think having boundaries around promotion, certainly around hate speech, discrimination, and then there's this like blurry place. There's this blurry land where we're trying to hold the culture and the vibe of the community and maintaining a space where people want to join while also wanting people to share authentically and to share like what's happening in real life. We actually side note the conversation with Mallory Contois and talking about how she navigates this in OGC is like a really fabulous follow-up for this. So if anybody listening is interested in those nuances, definitely head over and watch that episode next. I think it's tricky, but I do I love what you're saying about like there's just some hard boundaries in the community. And I do think at that point, once it's been stated, it's okay to remove that post. I don't personally think, and this is just my personal perspective, that like feedback about the community and the experience itself. I think I don't I'm trying to come up with an exception to this, but I think nine times out of ten, I would say that's something that I would welcome in a public space because I think we stand to gain so much more as a group through that discussion, even if it might not feel entirely positive. But not everybody sees it that way. And the other layer to this that I want to bring up and get your insights on, because I know we talked about it pre-podcast recording, is this community itself is the product, which is a little bit different than communities where we are supporting and nurturing customers towards a product? In some ways it's similar, in other ways it's different. This founder, this person is like an entrepreneur whose community is the product. How do you feel like that posturing of this founder being an entrepreneur rather than coming at it from a community? Maybe they have a community-building background, maybe they don't. What do you think the implications of that are on how this response was handled?

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, I think it's pretty evident from the way that they handled it that they are thinking about the community as their product and having negative feedback is like a negative review of a product, right? And I personally think that some of the best products approach their product development from the perspective of getting feedback from a community and iterating and building the product roadmap based on feedback from its users. So I think that when it's more of an entrepreneurial mindset where they are so focused on this thing being equated to their own value, it's almost going back to that like low ego mindset when someone has built this thing that is their product and their brand, I think that they are getting in the way of the community slash product evolving. They, this entrepreneur or this leader, has a very specific view of what the offering is. And instead of seeing feedback as a gift, which it really is, they're seeing it as like a growth deterrent. And I just think that is a silly way to think about how to sell your product. Like if the users are saying that they see a shift, that they're not getting out of the experience what they intended when they joined, when they purchased, then clearly there is something that isn't optimized. Like, vibe isn't just a feeling like that comes out of nowhere. A vibe, the culture, is created from all of these different moments, from onboarding to the content and conversations and intentionality. There's a reason why folks are feeling this way. So yeah, I mean, I think that when someone is focused just on building community, like a community that leads to a different product, maybe it's easier for that person to really just hone in on the community, the camaraderie. When those two are together, I do think it takes a more elevated way of thinking about how to both grow your product and grow the community and maintain it at the same time. And I do think that that is harder. That's more that's difficult to do. And this is a learning opportunity for that individual.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah, that's really good. That's super insightful. My next question, this is really practical. If you had like a clean slate and let's just use a situation where someone's providing that feedback in the community, how would you approach it? Someone posts publicly, hey, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. The vibe is off. Let's just say it's like it's actually really negative. No ifs, ands, or buts. They're not like being curious, they're being negative. What are the three things you would do to approach that?

SPEAKER_01 30:59

I think I would comment on that post saying, hey, thank you so much for sharing and acknowledging what you're feeling. I'd love to get on a call with you, to chat one-on-one, and get back to the thread with what we talked about. I'd then talk to that community member, hear them out, maybe together come up with a few different things that we could potentially do in the community to address whatever their qualms are. And then I might like create a video or something and post it back, like repost that person's thread, post a video, like recapping some of the things that came out of that call. And maybe as a call to action or next step, set up some type of like office hours where we can address these things and some of the proposed solutions, as well as anything else that folks want to address and maybe have a form or something where people could submit those ahead of time. That way I could have some opportunity to like prep or know what I'm coming into. But yeah, I think it's like addressing, trying to co-create that solution and then going back and stating that transparently that interaction was had and open the conversation up to others in the community.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

That's so masterfully handled. That's what I'm saying now, and I'm not in the situation.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

I'm like, oh, it's easier to think through what you would do than what you currently are doing. And obviously, it really depends on like the maybe that person doesn't want to get on a call. Maybe they just want to share their feedback and not get on a call. And then maybe the community isn't the right place for them moving forward if they don't want to have that conversation. Because I think it's on them as well. If you have a piece of feedback because you want the community to change, then I think that person should also agree to have that conversation, not just state it and drop the mic there and that's it, because that's not going to be productive either.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah. Oh, there's so this is leading to so many other great podcast episodes. And I have to drop the other one, which is Andrea Middleton. And we have this like a conversation about this too. So she provides like a really helpful framework for thinking about like the troublemakers in your community. So that's so good. It's always so much easier to talk about it on a podcast and what our highest selves would do in that scenario. So I think I'm like, I think what's so generous about your response is that we're looking at what the founder's response was and saying, we get it. This is like a really tough situation, and this is a learning opportunity. And here are some other options that could be available in this type of situation if this happens in your community.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

I just think about all the other people that posted on that initial post, like their comments. I'm curious. Like I'm I wonder if the founder reached out to anyone else that commented on that post, or it was just the initial poster, because yes, there was one person that posted their thoughts. But if other people engage, like by removing that post, you're also removing their perspective and silencing them as well. Like, I know if I were someone that just commented on it and then all of a sudden the post is gone, I'd be like, that's weird. Like I might even go back and post again. Like, hey, where'd this post go? I think it's potentially doing the opposite of what the founder is trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah. And in big communities, that is what's gonna happen. If it's giving authoritarian regime, you people can have that. Give enough of that. Don't give me another platform to protest authoritarian regimes. I'm so ready. But yeah, it can like really backfire. I think that's a super real thing. Like when you take the stance of removing posts that you don't want to have to deal with, you are gonna be ready for either. I think where that leads you is number one, it can come back tenfold from members who are like, so you weren't willing to listen, so we're gonna say it louder. Or number two, people are like, Well, F this, I'm out that you don't care what I have to say. This you don't genuinely want to hear my advice. I just I think so little to gain and so much to lose in the long term by deleting a post, even though in the short term it feels like you're winning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

And I almost think about this is this community leader thinking about audience or thinking about community? Because in my mind, if someone comes and they see this, like they experience this, they leave. I wonder if the this leader would care. Five more people join. Are they looking for a revolving door or are they looking to create a space where there are people that are committed and want to stay and grow the community, not just come in, ask a question, give the answer, and leave. Because if you do want people to stay around, then you need to build with them and not assume that you're the expert in the room.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That's really good. So, Lindsay, this actually was my letter. Okay. I wrote this one, and I was really hesitant to do so because I want to be really thoughtful about my own platform and how I use my voice, and I didn't want it to come off as this person took down my post, and so now I'm gonna talk all about why that was the worst thing to do. And really, I really wanted to make sure that my intention was aligned with the purpose of this podcast. And when I look at the purpose of this podcast, it's to go into the messiest, most chaotic, like most uncomfortable corners of community and shining a light and saying, we can learn from this. And when we talk about it, we're all gonna be better together. And I feel a strong calling to set the pace for that. And so when I entered into my own internal drama in this situation, I was like, it's not even gonna be enough to like sort through this and come to a good place on it for myself. And I was like, I think this has to be a discussion because I think we all stand to learn from the messiness of it. So I for one just want to say thank you for the generosity with which you approached me, the letter writer, but also the founder. I think there was a lot of curiosity and generosity while also looking at how we can do better together. And it was a really good prompting for me. This experience, this was my practice when I got the direct message from the founder with a little bit of hand slap, which by the way, we did have a call, me and the founder, and they were super nice. It didn't go exactly the direction that I wanted, and I didn't quite feel like what I needed out of the community was gonna be there. So I did end up leaving, but they were super generous, and there's nothing bad against them. My practice in this whole exercise was oh, someone's upset with me. What a great opportunity for me to work on my people pleasing tendencies. And that's been a big reframe for me as a community builder. I think we attract a lot of people pleasers, and that can be its own burden to carry. And I'm so used to being on the other side of it, like the one receiving all this feedback and like figuring out how the pieces all come together. So to be on this side was like quite unique. And honestly, it was a great opportunity for me to be like, okay, I get to practice using my voice and acknowledging I might have messed up here, and also maybe upsetting somebody and just being okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

I think that kudos to you. I think one, like even posting that feedback in the first place. Like, I don't know how often like I choose to do things like that. Like sometimes I silently perceive things or comment or say something to one person, but that isn't valuable. And so I think you were being a really good community member by posting that and taking the risk of not anonymously sharing your opinion that potentially could ruffle the status quo. And I hope that we all have community members that care that much to do that, and then to obviously write yourself a letter. I think that you're really practicing what you preach. And so, yeah, thank you for inviting me into the conversation because I think that you're being really vulnerable. And I think that's obviously a really great trait of a community leader, as we've said.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

So yeah. We don't always get it right the first time. And I think we have to approach it with the humility of there might be something that I'm missing here. I might have a blind spot. And so I'm grateful to get to practice that and learn how to better steward these spaces. Cause this is the hard work if we want to zoom out to our political climate and like connecting in the midst of conflict and disagreement and quote negativity, like navigating those relationships and even one-on-one, let alone in a communal sphere. Like this is the work. This is what our society, what is so fractured in our societal life. And so I think it's, I just I get so fired up about it because I'm like, if we can't do it here, I don't think we can do it anywhere. And what an amazing playground for us to learn to get better at it.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Totally. I think it would be really valuable for every community leader to have a session for their community members about like how to give feedback or how to like audit that the community is doing for you what you want it to, like how to point out what's going on, like how to be constructive. I feel like a lot of community leaders would be afraid to like open that can of worms, but I think that both shows that you are meeting your members halfway. You want to listen to them, and you're also giving some of them the tools that they may not have to know how to express themselves.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

That is so good. I love that prompt for like a community town hall, even if it was like a quarterly thing. We actually just did this in the Azazi community, which I partner with. It's hosted in Circle. And on the call, we ask, what's working for you here? What's not working for you here? Once members share, just because it's not working for them doesn't mean that we need to do it. Doesn't it might not even mean something needs to change, but it's an opportunity for us to say, that's not working for you. And yeah, that's super aligned with our purpose. We should make some tweaks to that. Or that's not working for you. And actually, that does not fall within the purpose of this community. I think that's something you're gonna have to find outside of this community. So it's such that's such a rich exercise to proactively say, hold space and create the container of this is where we'd we'd love to hear it. Come at us.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah. And what a great opportunity for like the community leaders to get this feedback and have to evaluate their own values or like what the mission of the community is. Because going back to the people pleasing, and I feel like I fall into this too. I want to be like, oh, well, I want you to be happy, and I want you to be happy. So, like, how could we implement all of these things? But I think it's important for a community leader to know what they want this community to be, to listen to the members and see where you align and also feel comfortable to put your foot down on certain aspects, but in a respectful way where you're really listening to the individual and trying to work with them.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Yeah, that's so good. Like, I used to talk with Mortiza at Heartbeat about this when we were setting up the Heartbeat community, because he's such a yes person. He's like, Yes, oh my God, we'll do it. Yes. And I was like, Mortiza, like your no is like just as valuable to your members as your yes, because it shows them that like when you say no, it reinforces and helps us trust your yes so much more. So just because you're getting feedback from your community that's like, well, we want to try this, or this isn't working, or this isn't like aligned, it doesn't put you on the defense to have to say yes to everything. It just prompts you to lead the community and acknowledge and clarify what is an The realm of yes, and what is outside of the purpose of this community. So Mortissa does a great job of that. But I just noticed they were saying yes to everything. I was like, well, you need to say no a couple times. Yeah, I love I love that.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah, it makes the yes so much sweeter.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah, yes. The no makes the yes so much sweeter. That's really good. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for joining me. Do you have any parting words of wisdom or anything to share with this letter?

SPEAKER_01 44:28

You know, I think that within community, there's so much heart from the one leading to the one engaging, and we all just have to be able to hold each other's hearts with care. And yeah, just hold hold your heart, hold your own heart, hold the hearts of others, and make space for tough conversations.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, that's really good. I hear like an approach, a call to approach with empathy and curiosity and holding each other's hearts tender, corny motto to leave y'all with. But we need more of that in this world right now. So I'm gonna take it and keep it. Perfect. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you for all the beautiful work you're doing in community building for setting the pace for that. I'm so excited for your new role. They're so lucky to have you and can't wait for this episode to come into the world. Thanks, me too. It's been great. Thank you so much for sharing some space with me on this episode. Please like and review wherever you find your podcast. To submit your own community conundrum, fiasco, or other drama, go to the link in the show notes. Aloha and catch you next time.