Blaze the Trail (with Joanna Whaley)

04 - BLAZE THE TRAIL - Faith and Politics

• Joanna Whaley

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In this episode. We discuss the threats of Christian nationalism and how it becomes dangerous in today's politics, as well as how to see that Christian nationalism is not just in the hands of republicans. 

LISTEN TO THE PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIANS PODCAST: https://www.youtube.com/@TheProgressiveChristians

DONATE: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/joannawhaley


SPEAKER_10

Christianity and the Republican Party has been one and the same. In fact, I had a pastor once tell me that there's no way that you could be a Christian and a Democrat. You see, in this race for the state house, I hope to change that narrative. Because I am someone who has held on to my faith. And we'll talk about that in today's episode, but it's time that we move a new path forward to say that yes, you can hold faith and also be a Democrat. So it's time for all of us to blaze that trail together.

SPEAKER_09

I'm believing during the Pledge of Allegiance and the promise of America. But that promise is yet up. I stand for you a little person in America, wondering where to promise it.

SPEAKER_10

And it's something that we've heard coming more into commonplace lately, especially with the likes of a candidate like James Tallerico, who has brought spirituality into the democratic conversation. And that's something that I as well have tried to bring into my campaign. And obviously, the complicating factor is not only am I fighting against the democratic Christian idea, I'm also an LGBTQ person of faith. So in today's episode, we go into a conversation I had with a bunch of pastors from Southern California who lead a church called The Loft. And they have a podcast called the Progressive Christians Podcast. Let's take a listen and see how the Christian faith actually is compatible with Christianity.

SPEAKER_04

And while many of them have always been doers of the word, they have decided to shift their work to the political sphere so they can have a broader impact. In today's episode, we are interviewing one such person today, Joanna Whaling. She is running to become a state representative in District 2 in Michigan. She is a progressive Christian, and her platform reflects the words of James. Moreover, Joanna has not always been a progressive Christian, and her journey is one that I think will resonate with all of us, and perhaps maybe even inspire you to get involved in your own local politics. Thanks for joining us, and let's get to the show. Greetings and welcome to the Progressive Christians Podcast. We are the Leber Neighbor kind of Christians and not the kind who would start a war just a few days after convening the inaugural meeting of a board of peace. So, if you're curious about what a socially and politically uh progressive Christianity looks like, this is the podcast for you. My name is Reverend Dr. Christopher Carter, and I'm your host. I'm a professor of theology and the lead pastor of the Loft Faith Community in Los Angeles, California. And today I am joined, delighted to be joined, just back with the political trinity. Uh Everest. Hey. And Wesley is back. Hello. We're back. So before we get into the book of the episode, I want to uh invite you all who are listening to become a supporter of our podcast. If if you like our podcast, we we really would love if you could become an official supporter of the Progressive Christians podcast. You can find a link to make a tax-deductible donation in our show notes. A one-time donation would be great, or you can sign up to be a monthly supporter. Now, we chose the supporter model because we didn't want to deny anyone access to the additional content we are creating, and we are indeed creating it. But in order to continue this ministry, really do we really need your support. So if you could please support us, that would be amazing. So, as I said, in today's episode, we will be interviewing, have a conversation with Joanna Whaley. Joanna is a former evangelical pastor who came out as a trans woman who has advocated for the LGBT community ever since. She is currently running for a seat in the Michigan House of Representatives. Joanna, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_10

Hello, everyone. The the political trinity. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I leaning into the leaning into the uh religious aspects as well.

SPEAKER_10

So I love it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

No pressure.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I know. I know.

SPEAKER_05

Well, we also don't take ourselves that seriously, but exactly. I know.

SPEAKER_04

We really don't. We really don't. Although I do think if we were in charge of like, you know, the politics of our country, things would be a lot better, but we'd be much more serious about it. Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. Honestly, I was delighted to have you on the podcast in part, and I have to just kind of full disclosure for people to know I am from Michigan, as some of you probably have guessed or because I've talked about it before. And so when someone emailed me from Michigan and another Michigander was like, hey, I'd love to partner with y'all, it immediately just piqued my interest. And the more we did research, we were just excited about your campaign, what you're trying to do. And so that is a huge reason why we went to have you on to talk. But also because again, we think your journey really uh I think a lot of people can relate to what what what you've kind of gone through in your own growing. But before we get to the specifics of your own journey, there's so much that's happening right now. We want to at least spend a few minutes talking about the military conflict with Iran. And so what are your thoughts on the war with Iran? And and and like if you were elected, Joanna, like what would you actually like, how would you speak about this to the people in your community?

SPEAKER_10

Yeah, I mean, first of all, thank you for you know even having that conversation because I think it's really easy sometimes to just put our head in sand and forget about it. And Christians and churches like to do that and just kind of stick to their stick to their series and not talk about what's going on, right? But my district is just south of Detroit and neighbors, one of the highest Arab populations on earth outside of the Middle East, which is Dearborn, Michigan. So we neighbor in one of the cities in my district named uh Melvendale is no different. It's a very high population of folks who have fled persecution from around the world and found home here in the States. There's a lot of our neighbors that are just hurting right now. A lot of, you know, it's just it's it feels like death by a thousand cuts. Um, you know, first we're coming after people for coming here to seek a better life, and now we're bombing their home. And it just, it just is something that grieves my heart. I believe it grieves the heart of God. I believe war grieves the heart of God, no matter how you identify God and what faith background you come from. I, as a Christian one, I loathe war. I think we should live at peace with one another.

SPEAKER_02

Obviously, we always pray for peace, but we've got to ask ourselves what we actually got out of this in the first place. Why did we even fight this war? It's hard to make any sense out of any American lack of war aims because it changed every day. But you have to remember who did have war aims. Benjamin Netanyahu has been trying to get this war fought for the past 40 years. He finally found a president dumb enough to do it. And you look at where we are now. Israel has used this opportunity to try and, in effect, annex Southern Lebanon, and that's exactly what they've done. So people are afraid and they're sad, they're hoping and praying for peace. But then for everybody, you think about spike in your gas.

SPEAKER_10

I think we should live at peace with one another. I definitely loathe war being blanketed in peace when we're using uh the terms of peace to say we're doing this for your own good is really manipulative. So we have many people in our community who are hurting right now and they feel exploited. And do do we like some of the human rights abuses that may have been going on in certain places of the world? No, we don't we don't have to stand for those things, but also our country really believes in a gospel of war and peace by bombing. And I I'm against it fully. I've been somebody who will not shy away from these questions, especially when it comes to nations like Israel who have been committing genocide in Gaza and and in the Middle East in general. And there's complex issues on all sides of this. But we have a tyrant in the White House who is hell-bent on war and blanketing it in the name of peace. So I stand unequivocally against it at the state level. There's only so much you can do, but you you are gifted with a platform to speak and to represent your people, and that is something that I will do as a next state representative here to say, I see you and I'm gonna speak for you, even if you know you may feel nervous to speak up right now, especially with the threat of immigration enforcement in the area. I will speak on your behalf. And so I'm appalled by it, and I will be loud and use my voice any way I can to say that this is gross.

SPEAKER_04

No, that that's so helpful because there are so many people who are nervous to speak out, um, who feel as though it threatens their status. Um, I have colleagues in the academy who have fundamentally changed how they teach because of their status, right? Even though they're tenure-tracked professors, and the infringement upon free speech by an alleged group of people who want to claim to be about free speech to me is just as deeply ironic.

SPEAKER_10

What is incredibly sad in this moment is that we have a federal government and a party, and the Republican Party, who has always championed the idea of less government and small government, but this government is bigger than ever. And this government is trying to stifle the rights of people to speak out against it. And so when we raise the alarms about things like church and state, and how those things become dangerous, we're told to just trust the government.

SPEAKER_06

Secretary Pete Hegseth is waging war, and he thinks God has picked a side. This isn't just a blurring of church and state, this is the Old Testament language of wrath, of holy war. An approach reportedly alarming military leaders, legal experts, and veterans all across the country. And it's making this war with Iran feel less like a military operation and sound more like a crusade.

SPEAKER_04

That some of the arguments that the military leadership are using to justify the invasion of Iran is tied to biblical notions of the rapture. Yes, we are using rapture theology to justify conquest. So there's an article in the Huffington Post that you can read, but it but there was essentially a bunch of complaints that came in where soldiers were saying that for some U.S. commanders engaging the emerging war in Iran as part of a biblical plan to bring about the end of the world as we know it. According to complaints, five by over a hundred service members, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation received a litany of complaints about religious ideology seeping into military orders since the US in Israel began bombing Iran. I know it said something about raising some flag. I can't I didn't grow up in any of this stuff, so I wish I could remember specifically the the way they were framing it. But it's something about a horn and a I don't know, man. So I I know I feel like you know more about this than me.

SPEAKER_10

The shofar is being blown, right? It's the horn. You hear you hear the horn, and that is the sign of Jesus riding in on the clouds, right? That is the the imagery that is being pushed forward. You can see it in a lot of military and uh recruitment imagery. They're trying to use a lot of this stuff. This really is foundational to what we've seen from the Christian right for so long. We have we have seen over and over the uh use of religion to justify egregious action. And this is just a way for them to feel and and they really believe that it is their responsibility to bring Jesus back to earth. We'll we'll get into this, but like in the Seven Mountains mandate, right, there's this imagery and there's a belief that okay, we live in a connect such a connected world now. We've preached the gospels to each end of the earth. Now we just have to usher in an environment to bring Christ back. This is this is what when Christian nationalism takes root and gets into the military, this is how it actually becomes dangerous physically for people, and and we're seeing it right now. I mean, you said over 100 service members have filed this complaint. That is alarming, right? That that's not just some rumor, this is real and they're playing with people's lives when it comes to this stuff. And John Darby is full of crap, by the way, for those who listen to the show. Like Darby basically made up the concept of the rapture. And my question is, and the thing that I would challenge people with is like, okay, if you believe in the rapture, what do you believe then? Are we pre-post mid-trib? Like, it depends on where you live. If you live in Iran right now, you're gonna be a post-tribber, right? Like the world's on fire around you. But if you're living in America, uh sitting in your cozy home, listening to your podcast, driving to, you know, get your third cup of coffee for the day, listening to us, you're in, you're in, you're in pre-trib, right? Like it's it's it it's a mess. The the concepts of these things come from I call a nasty game of telephone and religion.

SPEAKER_01

The possibility of an all-out war between Iran and Israel is a very real issue. Twenty, six hundred years ago, the headlines in the Bible written by the prophet Ezekiel in chapters thirty-eight and thirty-nine describe the condition of the Middle East right now, exactly. The Bible describes a woman.

SPEAKER_10

I heard this from my pastor who heard this from their pastor, and I heard it from my aunt, Aunt Janet, who shared a meme about this, and I now believe it. Look, I'm going to argue in all the comment sections that Jesus is coming back because we're going to find me Satan.

SPEAKER_08

Greater is he that's in me than he that is in the world. Satan is under my feet. I'm a he I'm the head and not the tail, I'm above and not beneath. In the name of Jesus.

SPEAKER_10

I bind up all evangelicals. Every single war in the Middle East, from the dawn of time, from the second I became an evangelical, every time a bomb drops somewhere in the world, someone was like, This is the end of the world. And we've been doing this since the very beginning. We've been doing this since Jesus died, right? Like people have been, oh no, this is it. No one knows the hour, right?

SPEAKER_04

Like and I think that's all I want to say. Like, that's what it says. I I always it it blows my mind. I'm like for people who want to claim to be taking the Bible seriously, where you know, in Matthew, was it 24 or 36, but nobody knows when that day or hour will come. Not the heavenly angels, and it just anyway, it it it's it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_10

You Pete, you know, Fox News Pete, you know. Congratulations. We're so proud of you. Hey friends, thank you for taking your time and listening to the show wherever you're watching, whether it's at work or mowing the lawn or driving in your car. Uh, for me, it's always in between patience, right? Or uh hopefully when I'm elected, it is driving to Lansing. But we need your support in this campaign right now. You can go to Joannawheely.com slash donate and support our campaign today to make what you're hearing become reality in Lansing. So as you're hearing, there's a theme here that there's a belief that we have to usher in the coming of Christ. We pick up that conversation right here.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I guess I think that's where, like, that's I I mean, I didn't grow up evangelical. I grew up in the fundamentalist tradition, Church of Christ. So different type of crazy, in my opinion. But the question I've always had is how do these things become so central in like the white evangelical experience to where someone who isn't even connected to Christianity has this understanding that there are people in the Christian tradition who believe that they need to usher in Jesus' second coming and in doing so will destroy the world and everyone else's inhabitants other than the followers? Like, how does that become so I don't want to say mainstream because it does feel like it's something specific to evangelicalism, but it it at the same time is a dominant character uh uh uh of versions of evangelical evangelical Christianity.

SPEAKER_10

Yeah. I I'm really glad you asked that question. And I really do believe, you know, I I should give some context of the types of evangelical environments I worked in my whole career. You know, I became a minister at the age of 17 in one of the largest megachurches in Michigan. I mean, these are like smoke machines like lions, tigers, and bears oh my, like every Sunday, right? Like that's the type of church I came from. I worked at the largest church in America with like celebrity pastors as guest speakers, right? Like that's that's the type of environments we were in. What's happening and what has happened in the evangelical space, really since the Willow Willow Creek movement has been the celebritification of pastors and the elevation of their authority to be an You can lose your job, but you don't lose your joy.

SPEAKER_00

When you have divine authority, you can lose your help, but you ain't lost your hope.

SPEAKER_10

I really do believe that what's happening in the evangelical spaces, if I heard it from my pastors, it must be true. And the culture that happens in many of these spaces is if you question, you are trying to sow division. And you have to sit under this teaching, like it or not, because that person on the pulpit is preaching the truth, and you can't question it. And that's the that's the culture that has happened. I think that we have elevated the pastor as the voice of God in the evangelical space, and we have not allowed for any other questioning. It's literally what Martin Luther fought against, right? It's it's what he fought against to say this is not right. We we have to be able to like hear from the voice of God ourselves and ask questions. But we have made celebrities out of our pastors, even if they're not celebrities, right? They have this power and authority that goes unchecked. And and the thing is that many people are showing up to church. Uh last this was a long time. Said that I think regular church attendance is once a month or once every six weeks. If you're showing up once every six weeks in a church and the pastor gives some beautiful sermon, the pastor. Ad starts rolling, right? You got the the keyboards going behind, and he just starts saying he he could literally sell you anything. Evangelical pastors are really good at like convincing you, right? This is a problem that is happening, is that we have people that just are taking blank advice from their pastors and not asking the questions. And the whole culture has turned that way too. Like if you ask any questions, you're instantly being lied to by the devil. Everything is spiritual warfare. And so there's a lot of spiritual coercion that goes into it. And folks, they're not like you know, going out and saying, I'm going to coerce these people to believe this terrible thing, but I believe it because my spiritual mentors taught me, and I kind of have to hold this line and I have to push this forward because that gets the cheers and that gets the crowd coming back every week. And so, yeah, you do it, you do a six-week sermon series on revelation, you know, you get the right environment, you can convince everyone that Jesus is coming back tomorrow. And that's what's happened. We've we have and we've elevated this is good, this makes all my evangelical friends really mad. We've elevated the pastor and we've elevated the the actual Bible to be like the only thing that we can uh that we can trust, right? And like when you put those two things together, and they're the only things you can trust. You can't trust your brain, you can't trust your mind, you can't trust reason anymore because that's the world, that's a recipe for disaster. And I think that's why we have so many who just blanket believe this stuff. And yeah, it took me a long time to figure that out being in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_04

I think, and then ever someone talks it to you after I say this, to me, that the the tension that you've identified that I actually think we can go back beyond Martin Luther. I mean, this is the beginning of of mo Moses, like this is Mosaic religion. The ancient Israelite religion is founded on this premise. You know, the Ten Commandments, the first three commandments are about making sure that no one believes themselves to be God, that the Pharaoh's not God, that we believe in a free God. And what you are describing is a way in which, while they would not say it, but when you give someone unquestioned authority and they're not held accountable, you are elevating them to a God. You're making them a God. And you are actually worshiping the Bible if you don't understand that it's an edited volume that is a part of God's revelation, but not the entirety of God's revelation. And so you are, in my opinion, and I'm an argument, I was saying this is not an opinion, this is an argument, where you are worshiping an idol. And I think this for me stifles the way in which the Holy Spirit actually works within us. And so what you're saying is, oh, they're told not to ask questions, and you think it's, you know, because you're sowing division. Well, this is why we call ourselves or believe ourselves to be created in the image of God. There's something within us, like there is a part of us that speaks our conscience, like this is the spirit speaking to us that prompts us to seek and to ask questions. And to shut that down is to, I would argue, disconnect you from something within you that's pulling you towards love that's that's agitating you to ask a question that perhaps you've had to shut down.

SPEAKER_10

So it's just the the way that we have allowed human beings to have the final authority on our spiritual processing is a major root issue that we find ourselves in. And you're right, it's been it's been a long-standing problem. And so I'm uh I am I'm thankful that we're talking about it.

SPEAKER_11

Well, the habits you have today will shape who you become tomorrow. So if you want to be more effective in your leadership, get strategic with your habits. Today is part two of a three-part leadership.

SPEAKER_10

One of the temptations of this type of a conversation is to not fully honor the background and the good things that came of my time as a pastor. And that's why it's important to always bring up what was good, even in some of the darkest.

SPEAKER_03

Language. Like cracked your egg a little bit, but it cracked your conservative theology egg.

SPEAKER_10

Yeah, and and I try to be really, you know, sometimes I can come off really harsh against some of the things I experienced in evangelical spaces, right? But I do have to also realize that though they were really genuine beliefs and grow again.

SPEAKER_11

That I was doing something after the weeds, even after the fords, even after the walls are down, even after the neglect. And the reason I know this is because Jesus never stopped tending, right? Think about it. Whenever you drifted, he pursued you. Whenever you stopped showing up, he never left you.

SPEAKER_10

When you made a mess of your life, like the things that we did, like the the way that uh, you know, I I lean I now I lean on Flippians saying whether it was out of pure or false motives, the gospel went forward, right? Like, I I do I do look back on those times and I think, you know, those moments were in the pad with the the the keyboards are going and you're you're hitting the point and and the people are crying in the front row and the hands are raised to accept Jesus, right? Like those moments were really powerful. And they were moments where it felt like, oh my gosh, like the spirit of God is in this room, like tangible. Like sometimes you could feel it, right? And and it it was honestly like at times it was an honor to be involved in that work. But the things that started to shift for me were political. So I was working at a big megachurch in the state of Michigan, one of the biggest ones in the state. I want to say somewhere around 20,000 people a weekend at our church, multiple locations. And I remember it was when it was after Trump got elected, and it was gearing up towards the 2020 election cycle, right?

SPEAKER_04

Anybody that believes what the left believes is absolutely on the side of evil.

SPEAKER_00

America may fall one day, but it will not fall on Joe Biden.

SPEAKER_05

Trump will be back, whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_10

When the elections were coming closer and closer, I started to hear people that were my spiritual mentors. I began to start hearing them spout conspiracy theory. And that began to not settle in my spirit in the right way. What happened is that you know I kept hearing it over and over. I'm like, these are people that I that taught me what truth is, right? These are folks that I sat with for years and worked out my salvation with them, right? Worked out my faith with them. And they were beginning to say things like this election is rigged, this, you know, they they they would start saying things, there's this evil cabal, and they would get they were getting into like QAnon, which is kind of true now, but like, you know, um, we're we're learning a lot of things. But I I started to watch these things play out and watching my mentors falling for conspiracy theory, and I began to ask some pretty big questions of my own faith, but I knew I was not safe to ask them out loud. I began to ask the questions what have I been taught that was true? That actually they didn't have a clue, right? Like, what are they what did they just parrot from someone else? And that's what began to start unraveling my like conservative thought process because I think it's really worth saying, like, I was bought and sold on the Christian nationalist moment. You know, I I I believed that the world was evil and trying to turn us all gay and like, you know, trying to get us all through our TVs, this that Satan was trying to come in and and you know, that's why I struggled with my gender my whole life. Like I believed those things, right? But it was really getting up to the 2020 election began to really move it for me. And then on January 6th was a big moment, especially when I started seeing the Christian flags being flown at the Capitol. And then what really got me was there was a Sunday morning I'm at church, and mind you, COVID raging, and many in the church were just super angry that we were had contact precautions and we're being, you know, they're like, You you all are being so woke, and all this all this language started to show up in our conversation. I had never heard this type of language. That explicit language that was so politically tied to like the Trump administration. I had never heard that in the church building before. And I started to hear it, and I just remember one Sunday leading worship, you know, rooms going, keyboard, beautiful music, cool lights. And I was singing that morning, and I just remember thinking to myself, I am really angry at each and every person in this room.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_10

Wow. Wow. Like I had a moment where I was like, I cannot, I cannot lead these people anymore. And it began to, it, it, it ate at my heart and my spirit so much. So I just, you know, it was in that season, I just kept asking more and more and more questions. Hey friends, I don't know if you are like me, but I had no interest in politics until Trump. Trump was the person who made me think, you know what, I need to get involved because this is crazy. If you want to elect leaders and see people in the state of Michigan who are gonna fight back at the chaos, you can go support my campaign right now. Go to Joannawaley.com slash donate. Again, it's Joannawaley.com slash donate. Thanks. As this moment in time continues, I think it's important that we understand again that Christianity and the Republican Party are not and should not be one and the same forever. I think we are seeing a shift, and in this conversation we begin to unpack that reality.

SPEAKER_04

I want to make sure we pivot to get into some of the politics of the conversation today. As you you talked about how do we understand evil. I think that I think sin and a uh a terrible definition of sin is a part of the reason why you see these divisions in the way in which some groups of folks individualize sin versus seeing sin as structural, not just individual, right? But also like as we define it in the loft, like a sin is a failure to bother to love. And while that love is both loving yourself, but also loving your neighbor, and maybe love our neighbors, also includes the systems within which we live. And so I think it's a helpful turn for us to then think about okay, how does our faith shape our politics and what does it actually look like? And so I'm curious, you know, if you could just say a little bit more about like, or I guess to kind of start the conversation on that, like what motivated you to run for office? Like what made you be like, okay, this is something I'm gonna do. This sounds like a good idea.

SPEAKER_10

Oh my gosh. Uh, how much time do you have? Uh you know, this was never on my bingo cart. Running for office was never something I thought about doing. But I I had come out and I was doing LGBTQ rights advocacy within religious spaces. So I've been traveling around the state, uh, to other other states, working with speaking at churches, sharing my story, basically pastoring queer people around the country, working with pastors who were evangelical pastors, trying to understand, trying to come out and trying to figure out and read how they were going to navigate their lives. That this was the work I was doing. And in the process of doing all of that stuff, you know, I had done a podcast, I did, you know, all this stuff, just trying to make sure that this message was going forward, that you're not alone. And in the process, I got invited to speak at the uh the first indivisible, uh, did the first hands-off rally. I got invited to speak, and the organizers call me, like, well, we're trying to find two more speakers, you know, we're trying to find somebody to talk about LGBTQ rights and to talk about Christian nationalism. I'm like, friends, I'll do both of those for you. I got you. Like, check, check, you know. And so, you know, I shared my story with them. They're like, oh my gosh, yeah, we would love to have you speak. So I get up and speak, right? Like, there's all these politicians there doing their stump speeches, and you know, F. Trump and all this stuff everywhere, all the place. And I come up and I share my story, and I share about how my faith has been appropriated by those flying a flag. And that was kind of the basis of my talk. And the crowd, I was like thousands of people, like the crowd was moved by the speech. And I got off this to use a stage would be very liberal. It was literally a milk crate I was standing on with a microphone, but like I stepped down off that literally off my soapbox, and I people started coming up to me and they were like, You need to run for something. And I'm like, no, thanks. I'm not sure if that's like what I want to do, you know. Uh and but that conversation just kept happening like all day that day, and then I kept getting messages from people and people in public, like I would go out and I would meet some friends, and like, you need to run for something, Joanna, like you need to do it. And I'm like, I don't know. So I started to have I started to think like, well, maybe I should, like, the people were calling me to lead. I'm like, so so maybe I should, maybe I should, maybe I should look into it. So I'd start looking around, like, what's going on at our city level? What's going on here, there? And wasn't really thinking about some state things. And my state representative, who is a Democrat, did two things. He refused to issue driver's licenses to immigrants. He voted against it. And then he also voted against trans rights in the state of Michigan. And that was the moment, as a dem, he was a Democrat. I said, that's the seat I'm gonna run for. And I was getting ready to challenge him, and he decided to run for a different seat. So it's an open seat now. But I was motivated by the egregious civil rights issues we're seeing in our community. But what's so interesting is how similar running for office and touch being a politician is to mastering.

SPEAKER_12

To those of you who are disappointed, you think I should be further along by now. By this stage of life, I thought I'd be doing better, I thought I'd be making more, I thought I'd be a half schooling with me, I thought I'd be further along.

SPEAKER_04

I want to tell you I can see it. I can see it. I mean, I can see it, but I'm so glad you said it.

SPEAKER_10

Yeah, like the more that I'm going into this, the more familiar it feels. And I'm realizing that there are folks that get into politics who don't know how to do what pastors do. What are we trained at? We're trained at listening to the cries of the people and acting, even if they couldn't can't put words to it. And that's something that I'm finding about this space that's so exciting and so it feels like a spiritual act to step into this space. And so the more I stepped into it, the more I felt like, okay, this feels like what I should be doing. And my mom, my mom's hilarious, right? She she always has a lot of opinions about what I should be doing in my life. But she said to me, You were made to do this. And that was like a huge moment of like, ugh, okay, we'll keep going. Let's keep doing this, you know. So that's what pushed me into it. It really was kind of the universe just willing it into existence.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's a really amazing, like politicians and pastors having similar roles. I think the first time I heard that, I was thinking maybe that is saying something about pastors that's kind of yeah, strange. But then I think that kind of the inverse of that is that it feels like a good politician should be serving the people as a pastor. I think that that is really amazing to hear that this is your journey and this is the role you're stepping into because it sounds like you are treating it with the reverence that it actually deserves.

SPEAKER_10

I want to thank my friends at the Progressive Christians Podcast at the Loth Church in Southern California. Thank you so much for that interview. And I want to thank all of you and again remind you. Find some time and go support this campaign, Joannawaley.com slash donate. We'll see you next time.