Bad At Video Games

One rushed decision can feel like love, and the next can feel like you’re trapped in a life you never picked. From a booth at Campus Pub in Lexington, we sit down with Philip Corley and follow the chain reaction: meeting young, converting religions, and getting pulled into an accelerated marriage timeline that looked “right” on paper but never quite fit. When kids shift from a conversation to a schedule, Phil realizes he’s been living on someone else’s plan and has to figure out how to choose himself without losing everything.

We talk about the parts of divorce most guys don’t say out loud, like how identity gets tangled up in community approval, how family relationships can fracture and then slowly heal, and how pressure from everyone around you can make you freeze. Phil walks us through the separation, the blunt phone call that ended it, and the surreal logistics of picking up your life when relatives are watching. It’s honest, messy, and painfully relatable.

From there, we get into divorce recovery for men in the real world: sleeping alone, dating again, rebound relationships that help and also hide the pain, and what rock bottom looks like when you haven’t processed the loss. We also dig into practical ways to rebuild self-worth, handle rejection, and create a healthier life through friendships, open mics, karaoke, the “yes man” phase, and learning when to turtle and recharge. We close on a quote about healing inside safe, corrective relationships and why community might matter more than another relationship right away.

If this hits home, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more divorced guys can find the conversation.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Welcome back to the Divorce News Podcast. My name is Zach and I'm Matt. This is episode four. Today we have a special guest with us, uh Philip Corley. Uh he's gonna tell our story. We're sitting here kind of on location at Campus Pub in Lexington. Um I'm gonna apologize up front about any kind of background noise that you're hearing. Um so Phil, welcome. Thank you. Um let's tell us a little bit about you first, and then uh we'll get into your divorce and the things that transpired along those lines.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Alright, well, I uh said my uh name is Phil Corley. Um I work at Whole Foods uh grocery store. I'm the uh produce receiver there. I put away the produce trucks that come in. Nice. Um in free time, I like to do a lot of uh writing. I do poetry, I've been working on a book for a couple years. Hell yeah, yeah. That's awesome. And after that, just kind of just kind of chilling through life.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Cool. Um so the produce trucks. That's that's cold, right, all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

It sounds like my kind of my kind of place. Um so let's tell let's talk about your your divorce real quick.

When Marriage Moves Too Fast

SPEAKER_03 1:14

How long were you guys together?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Uh we were together for five years, uh, married for three. Why don't you uh take us back to the moment you knew it was over for you? The moment that I knew that it was over. Um we have really rushed into marriage and through a lot of the steps for the marriage. She grew up in a culture, you know, in a religion where people got married fast, and I did not. I grew up in a in a religion and culture where marriage you you dated somebody for two or three years, and uh and then you started to talk about marriage. So we had kind of stayed on her schedule for for the marriage, and I was just going through motions and going through everything, and it came to a point where she was wanting kids, and we're only 22 at this point. I'm like, that's one push of fast forward too much for me.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

And that that's when I was like, I need to start finding my way out of this marriage. This is not what I chose to do. I just kind of went along with her and her schedule, and uh yeah, just needed to need to need to find my way out.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

So you just had a really accelerated schedule that you just got uncomfortable with, and then on top of it, talking about kids and also not quite ready for that. So how'd you guys meet?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

So we met in at the end of our freshman year of college. Um I went on a date with a girl, it didn't work, but that girl introduced me to the to the woman who would be my wife.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

So consolidary practice.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Did she happen on the same night? Were you guys guys out on a date and she brought her friend and they were like hoping to get a free meal and like you guys hit it off?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Or like No, we went on the one date and I reached out afterwards, and she's like, you know what? I'm not feeling it, but here's my friend. It's like, all right, we'll do that. She was at least partially right.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

I mean, you ended up marrying them, her, but so how did you handle telling friends and co-workers and family members that you were getting married, and then how did you tell everybody you were getting divorced?

Conversion, Family Fallout, Identity

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Like, how did that all happen?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Telling friends uh at that time where we had grown up in different religions, I had actually converted to her religion.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

And let's whoa, whoa, hang on. Let's talk about that for a second. Oh yes. That's you just kind of like we're glancingly gonna go over that. That's a big step, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

It is it is a huge step, and and you know, that was a big part of why I ended up on that accelerated schedule with with the marriage.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Okay, so it was like in their religion that you've kind of followed, I don't say quote unquote God's plan, but like you meet, you fall in love, have kids, buy a house, the car, the dogs, the children's.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

There were people in within that religion, I knew them, they they were dated for two or three months, and then he'd be married. Wow. And then and having families immediately. Wow, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Like what, 19, 20 years old?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah. Oh, Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

See, I thought I did things fast, getting married at 19 and having a kid at 21. I thought that was fast enough. But you're basically I'm slow rolling.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

You're just taking your time, dragging your feet. Well, what worked for them was that was the culture. The you know, that they they spent all their lives with this uh emphasis on the family, and so that's what they expected, and that's what makes it work for them. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

So um, so let's let's go back to what Matt was asking just a second ago about uh you're telling your family. When they when you told them, were they like, what the fuck are you doing? Or were they kind of receptive?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

I mean, they were already what the fuck are you doing when I left the left my original religion?

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Okay. Well, I mean, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, some of those religions they'll disown you for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

I did not have good relationships with my family at that time. And uh has that gotten better since it's gotten way better, and we've talked about things. And you know, when I first left the church, you know, they asked me to leave the house. You know, we had younger siblings there that they wanted to protect them. So them asking me to leave was not at all an unfair thing. They had to make choices for for the rest of the family. But uh but but we talked about that. We've we feel those relationships. But uh we certainly weren't in a good place when I said, Hey, I'm now gonna get married, and I'm only like 20 years old.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

They didn't receive that one very well either.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

You know what? I don't think there's a family in the world that was like, yeah, you should get married at 20. Uh I mean, my my parents were not excited about me getting married at 19. That was a hot take.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Usually it's a forced decision.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, right. No, listen, we we had we had a couple of years. It was it was assumed a shotgun wedding, but it was not. But you know, we all have we all have our own burdens to bury, and and it's it's interesting that you know the family kind of strayed away while you were going through this process, too. Were they were they around during the three years of you guys being together? Were they there for you? Were it was that still a strenuous relationship? After the marriage, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

So it was strained, but we were figuring it out, and you know, this this girl was now part of the family, whether they agree with the decisions that got there or not. And so they were open to figuring out a way to make it all work. And so there were actually a couple times that you know, me and the wife, we went to church with my parents at my original religion, and you know, we we were just finding ways to make it work.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Did your identity take a hit outside of being a husband? When you're like going through all of this, like you gave up your religion for another girl. Like, how did that affect Phil?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I had no idea who I was. That and that was a big reason why I got sucked into the new religion and and went and got married so quick. Was I really had no idea who I was beforehand.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Did you feel like this helped you find your quote unquote home, right? Like both your religious and your physical home at this point with your wife. Like did you really feel like you found that through this?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yes. You know, and I I was comfortable with with the community that we that we were a part of. You know, the community was what really sucked me in the religion. They they were all such good people and genuine genuinely wanted made me feel like they wanted me around.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And I felt like I had a place. I belonged with these people, and you know, I belonged with this woman. But that to at the same time, there was a certain part of me that it wasn't my identity. Your religion? Uh being a husband. Being a husband, okay. You know, because she had expected us to get married quick. I expected it to take a couple years. Yeah. And that became a a big conflict between us going into uh engagement.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

So going in, you had reservations already because of the timeline. Is there a part of you during this time that kind of resents being with her because of how quickly things are moving?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Yeah, because at a certain point it wasn't my decisions anymore. You know, I was just kind of going along with the motions that were being presented to me. And I wasn't ready, but she was kind of giving me that ultimatum like, you know, if you don't marry me soon, I'm gonna leave you. And with all my stress strained relationships with the family, I didn't know how to lose her at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Right, because then you would be literally by yourself.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

You've left your religion, you're losing the family, and now there's a chance here. Also losing the girl at this point.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Yes. So how long sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. Um how long did it take you in these three years to realize that this isn't working?

SPEAKER_01 8:59

It was about uh a year and a half in is when uh is when the the topic of children came up. Yeah. And uh she had signed us up for health insurance, and we had to have that health insurance for at least a year before maternity benefits would kick in. And she was telling me at the end of that year, you know, we're gonna start having kids. Like it wasn't a discussion, it was we are going to start.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Oh, so you you didn't have a choice.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

This is yeah, this is hey, you happen to be my husband, and we're gonna start having to screw your life plan.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

This is now my life plan.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Now the timeline.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah, that's what I that's when I really like it sank into me that this is not the life that I envision for myself. You know, I I've fallen into this hole. I just keep falling deeper and deeper into it, just following other people's timelines.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

And that that's when I was knew that I needed to start.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

So did you did you make the ultimate decision to sit down and say, hey, this isn't working, it's time to move on? Or was this her decision because you refused to have kids? What was the what was the the straw that broke the camel's back?

Separation Pressure And The Final No

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So uh after after the kids saying came out, we were still together for another year, uh, but there were the conflicts were getting you know more and more frequent. You know, as I was kind of coming into like this is what I wanted. Uh there came a point in May of the last year we were together that uh we separated. Um I would went back to my parents and I was staying with them, and you know, she was still at her home in in Nicholasville. And there was a lot of talk at the time. It's like, what, Phil? What are you gonna do? Phil, what are you gonna do? Like, you can't leave her in limbo. Are you gonna go back? Are you gonna leave her? Like, everybody was putting so much pressure on me to make a decision.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

So at this point, you're taking a temporary separation from each other to try and figure out how to move forward, and you're still just getting nothing but pressure.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, nothing but move forward, move forward, move forward. So I told everybody, including her, it's like if you keep pressuring me, I'm gonna go with what I'm thinking right now.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Which usually is pretty much the way you should like kind of live life. Your gut's it's usually not real. It's usually not real. Go with your gut. Like if you feel something's off in your gut, you just listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Um so we're on the we're on the phone at one point. I'm at my parents' house. She's in Nicholasville, and she says the thing, she says, I need to know if you're coming home or not. And I was like, No, and hung up right then.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

So you you just like ended the conversation with no and click, yeah, and uh and that that was it. That was it. Yeah. What was what was it like after that? Like, did you guys immediately separate things or did you just like pack a bag and leave? And then she kept the rest of the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Like she wanted me back at our place in Nicholasville uh the morning after to come pick up my stuff, and it was already like outside and everything.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

She did the angry girlfriend through it out the window.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Well, here's the thing about that scenario. We lived we lived in a duplex uh at the time. The duplex was owned by her grandfather, and the people on the other half of the duplex were her parents.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Oh, so it's like not just getting out, but also doing all the relatives. Shotgun divorced. Shotgun divorce.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Pick up your shit and leave. Everybody's watching me pick things up off the ground, which wasn't much. It was some clothes. I kept a TV, but I was like, I'm not taking the furniture, I'm not keeping the place. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah, you're not kicking her out and living next to mom and dad, right? Like that's not that's not happening.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

No, she just got free room of board. Yeah, so it was like that part of the process was actually pretty easy once you got past all the family staring at you.

Sleeping Alone And Dating Again

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah. After you guys broke up officially divorced, how long did it take you to get back into dating?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Uh, it took only a few months to get back into dating.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah. Was it because at that time you like you'd already been done with the relationship for so long that there wasn't much grieving going on?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

There was definitely a a process, you know, leaving the marriage where everybody I've talked to is like, you know, you go from having somebody in your bed like night after night and then you're sleeping alone. And that's a really difficult adjustment.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

There wasn't enough pillows in my bed. I slept with it. Literally, literally shit, dude.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

I slept on a couch for almost two years afterwards because I liked the back cushion behind me.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

You know, because I always slept on the on the edge and there was somebody behind you. I literally could not go into my bed because there was too much space.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

So you stayed on the couch to stay little spoon, I take it.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Oh, definitely still am Little Spoon. Love being a little spoon. Nothing wrong with wanting to be held. Absolutely not. No. I'm a grown-ass man. I like to be held. I'm a big spoon through and through, I tell you what.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

What was dating like once you got back in? It was actually really nice because you know, at the time I was working at a restaurant. I was a manager there, and uh I got to talking to one of my coworkers' sisters, you know, just a couple months after after the divorce. And we just clicked, you know, immediately. And it it wasn't like I was really looking to get back into dating, but it just happened. So like, you know, we clicked, we liked hanging out together, so why not let's just you know hang out for a little while, see what happens. And we end up that relationship ended lasting for a year and a half, and it was everything that I needed it to be for where I was at at that point in life, you know. It was not serious at all. We just did cute things together, yeah. You know, and it was really helpful to just like kind of have that that time to not deal with anything.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

But that was also the big problem with it, was I was not dealing with anything. I was not processing or getting it.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

As fast as you went into that relationship, it really became your new distraction, right? So you didn't have to deal with the divorce itself. It's called a rebound. Rebound.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

But I don't think of it as a rebound because of how beneficial it was in other ways. Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Now, you you mentioned a couple of times going into the marriage, your original marriage, that uh your only marriage. Sorry, I'm not number two. I just assume everybody's had more than one at this point. You mentioned a couple times going into this marriage that you didn't know who you were. Uh did this second relationship kind of help you figure that out at all? In some way, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Because I wasn't expecting that question. Because there was a got it. You got me on that one. Um it helped me like figure out just like kind of how to have have fun with life and you know how to enjoy kind of like you know not having anything going on and being able to let loose a little bit. It helped in that regard finding my place and who I am as as just kind of like a carefree, like you know, lovable guy, I guess. But uh, as I mentioned a moment ago, like it also didn't help me like heal and figure out what it looks like when I'm a healed individual.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Yeah. So you you had happiness for a little bit, which is something you hadn't had in a little while. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I learned how to be happy.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Yeah, well, most important thing in life is just trying to figure out how to be happy.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Do you feel like you hit rock bottom after this next relationship? Do you feel like you finally started to deal with the aftermath of the marriage itself? Um after your rebound or your distraction, whatever we want to call it, you know, after all of it's said and done, that relationship ends. Who's Phil at this point? How are we dealing with things? What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Did the the emotions come rushing back in?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Oh yeah, I hit the ground hard coming out of that relationship because uh she had moved away. Um she she had joined the Navy, and that's that's why we broke up. She she was going into the Navy. You know, I was okay with with that breakup because you know, she's going to she's about to be at uh boot camp, she's gonna go to A school, C school, then she's gonna be stationed anywhere in the world. It's the Navy, so that could even be on the ocean or under the ocean. So she had a plan too. Yes. You didn't quite fit in her plan either. I was yeah. I was never the main goal. But that was okay. You can find a hippie.

The Rebound That Helped And Hid

SPEAKER_01 17:35

That's what you need.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Somebody just like wanders through life carefree, no plans. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

But I was okay with that breakup for about a year until you know we broke up because she could be anywhere in the world, including on the ocean. She got stationed in Washington, D.C. Oh, geez. She didn't even leave the time zone. Oh, jeez. So she's just she's just a day trip away. I mean, yeah, that's literally arrived. Suddenly, I'm not okay with the breakup anymore. And like a month after she got her orders, I actually uh went up to Washington, D.C. I took a week-long trip and we hung out all week, and I was really seeing if we could rekindle it, because if you're gonna be that close, then maybe we can actually make this work.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Um, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

In all fairness, the though, to her, like that's a that's a pretty big commitment on her point.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Like, no, a hundred percent. Like, I don't hold anything against her. Like, she she did everything the way that she was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah, yeah. And uh and I think that uh so the universe does this, it puts people in your life at the time when they need to be there. Uh, and she was probably that person for you. You had just got out of kind of a relationship where you weren't happy, and then she shows up and allows you to become Phil again and be happy and kind of solidify yourself a little bit more as whoever you were trying to be. Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Um Yeah, I don't I don't want to speak for you, but I feel like there's relationships that are they're meant for a season. Yeah. That really allows you to feel like you're worth something. And you you are just still desired and wanted and talking about on a previous episode about how the divorce can can generate this feeling of failure inside of you.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Oh, 100%, yes. And that you know, it it could take a while for you to figure out you, what you need, who you are, that you're actually still a human being, and you still have feelings, and that you can be desired and wanted and happy, and that's the biggest thing is like after my divorce, there was a period of time when I didn't know who I was, I didn't know how to be happy, and then you know, my now wife came along and she was that person. We just happened to stay together, yeah. Um, but yeah, the universe put her in my path. The universe put what was her name?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Oh, he didn't give a name. I didn't give a name. Sorry, I missed that. Co-worker's sister, co-worker number two.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Um yeah, she came in your life at the moment when you needed her. Right. Um, you've had one of those.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

I have. I I've actually had two similar relationships that way where they were, okay, I am still desired. That was something huge for me because part of my divorce was the lack of desire. We lived in separate rooms for five years, and finally getting out of that relationship and finally getting through the divorce and living on my own and start dating again. It's like, oh, I I'm still wanted. Someone still thinks I'm attractive and they want me and they need me. Getting cheated on the all of these things. Exactly. It it really takes away your your vision of self-worth, which isn't necessarily true. It's just how you feel and and trying to work through those feelings. Um, I'd like to go back to what was your what was your rock

Rock Bottom, Stigma, Learning To Heal

SPEAKER_02 21:08

bottom? So we've talked about the divorce and then this relationship. When did you feel like, okay, shit, I have to figure things out for myself?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

I think my rock bottom, it was a couple months after the Washington, DC trip. And you know, I was in free fall in the in those couple months because Washington DC exposed to me how I hadn't healed, I hadn't processed any of this. Um, I was trying to get back into my original church. I met some people, I was I was finding a new group of uh peers to hang out with, and there was a girl that I fell for hard. And I realized as I was trying to talk to her and trying to ask her out and everything, like I had no idea how to go about dating. Because, you know, at that point, you know, I'd been With my you know, I've been with my wife for five years and lucked into the relationship afterwards, and so it was about eight years where I was not practicing dating.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

What so what what's the time frame now? What what year is it? It's 2016. Okay, so this is like dating apps are starting to come around and everybody's starting to get deep into the Instagram and social media and then traditional dating is kind of gone out the window.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, it everything's changing. Yeah. And I've not been with the times. I don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

We feel like grandpa's now. Just about, yeah. We're all 100 years old.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

I wish I didn't I didn't understand, but here was the last time I dated MySpace, and here we are, 2018, 2020, rolling in. Yeah. And it's like, oh, what is Snapchat?

SPEAKER_03 23:00

How do I do a TikTok? What is hinge?

SPEAKER_02 23:03

What the hell is a TikTok? All right, I'm an old man. Let's figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Getting back to the rock bottom bit, like it didn't work with that girl, you know, in the church. You know, I didn't know how to handle my divorce story in that church because there's, you know, among the religious, there's this stigma that comes along with being divorced.

unknown 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

And I ran full force into that. That was my rock bottom was like, how do I handle my story? You know, trying to get back into dating, you know, within you know, within my church. And I didn't know how to do that. And that was the point where I was like, I really need to figure this thing out and how to put myself out there and tell these stories. And you know, and that that was a that was a process that took some time.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

So looking back, what would you say if you could give yourself advice post-divorce, pre-relationships? What was what was some advice you'd look back at? Hindsight's 2020. What would you tell yourself if you could go back and tell yourself anything?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Make sure that you have dealt with whatever it is you're feeling coming out of the divorce. You know. You don't want to take that into the next relationship. Sometimes that is going to it's gonna create problems. Yeah. You know, yeah. If if if you are not yourself healed, if you are not complete yourself, you can't be your complete self with somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

I totally agree with that. This kind of leads to the question I was gonna ask. What is one of the things that was weighing down on you during this time that now you're just looking back, you're like, well, that wasn't so bad. I got through that. That was easy.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

So I don't want to speak for you, but for myself, you know, post-divorce, I really felt like I lost the friendships that we had because everybody was married and no one wants a third. And, you know, I didn't have single friends, and I didn't have people to really lean on at the beginning there. So that's um kind of goes into mind too.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Friendships making friendships post-divorce. I was terrified. I was like, this is gonna be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And now I'm just like, fuck it, let's go talk to random strangers and let's like meet people and hang out. What is what is something like that for you that during your divorce you were just like terrified of? But now looking back, you're you're like, uh, why would that was silly? Why why would I do that? Why would you worry about that?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

I think for me, like the hardest thing has been getting rejected. Because, you know, I I didn't have the problem of not having friends coming out of the divorce. Yeah, I was working two jobs there at the end of it, and I had plenty of connections through those two jobs. And I had people around me in in the in in that time. But it was trying to get back into dating, you know, after the marriage and after that, you know, that second relationship, when I realized I didn't know how to do dating at all. Like just going up to talk to people it was really hard. I don't I I never use pickup lines, I don't know how to start the conversations.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

You look like my next ex-wife.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

You look like you damage me. Would you like a drink? Like, I don't don't use either of those lines. Seriously, guys. Horrible lines. Those are terrible. They do not work.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

But like, I don't know, I don't know how to talk to girls, I don't know how to flirt, I don't know how to do any of that. And so when when something did click at you know, after that, like when there was a chance that me and this girl could, you know, be in a relationship, or if I really liked a girl, like, you know, didn't know how to go about it, and you know, you do your best. I try to I try to talk to her and it just doesn't work. And it's just rejection after rejection after rejection.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Has it gotten easier to put yourself out there though? Like now, after having gone through all of that, would you say that that's the thing that's you know, like I was terrified of doing this, but now it's you know it is what it is, it's not that big of a deal.

Becoming A Yes Man Again

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Um, it's gotten easier for me to like do random things like you know, get up on stage and sing karaoke. I used to be terrified of being in front of people.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

He's now become a yes man. That's step one, become a yes man. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

We're gonna be going to a concert, an EDM concert, me and Matt, uh here in a couple months.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yeah, I I I invited him to a concert. We're gonna be down in Tennessee down in uh July for an amazing concert in the caverns. And I was like, hey, I'm going to this thing. Do you want to go? And he yes manned himself right into it. So we're we're going together.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Yeah, put yourself out there. That's that's I think that's the hardest thing to get people to understand after they've gone through a divorce, is that the yes man phase, while it seems the most daunting, is the most rewarding. 100%. Absolutely. Like just putting yourself out there, doing things that you're uncomfortable with. Uh I I mean, you know, don't become a prostitute. That's yeah, you know, but doing things you would never normally do, like you said, getting up on stage and doing karaoke. Right. Right? Uh we went to a comedy show one night, and you got up on stage and you were trying to guess a word. I don't remember what exactly it was, but you were trying to guess your word. And he wrote this like 40 character thesaurus word that nobody's ever heard of.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Well, I I was terrified, but on the spot. I was like, I really want to be funny here. But like it worked in that moment. I'm like, what can I put that's funny? It was like a really, really long word.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

To give some context, this guy was one of those um psychic mediums. Psychic comedians. He was a psychic comedian. Um, and he was trying to figure out the context clues of the words to write an adjective about him.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yes. And he was gonna guess which people on stage wrote that word.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yes. Funny enough, both me and Phil get called up on stage to do this exact thing. And he was really short, so my word was tall.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

I don't remember what your word was, but I was like, fucking Phil.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

It might as well have been super califragilistic expialido notious because he did not guess it. No, he had no idea what it was.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Uh the word, for those curious, was perspicacity.

unknown 29:38

See?

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perspicacious. Perspicacious. It starts with a Q. I don't know. It's like pterodactyl. Nobody knows how to spell it. You came up with a no problem. That's your literature, though. That's yes, that's your poetry. The writing background. Your novel.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

That was the that was the other thing you kind of yes manned yourself into, is you started reading poetry, writing, and and doing his writing. Yeah, you got to. You write a book, and then you know, you've got your poetry. So you started reading poetry at some of these open tables and open mics.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Yes. Did that happen after the first really after your divorce or after the relationship that showed you that you could be happy again?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

That happened. Where did that happen at? I think that was after the second relationship. And uh that was me just trying to get back into poetry, and I discovered something called Lexant Poetry Month. It's put on by a local uh publishing uh company, and and the basic idea of it is writing a poem a day every day for the month of June.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

And there's this running blog that you could post these things to, and you know, I was barely involved with the poetry community, but I just heard this thing. Like, yeah, let's do this, let's write some poetry.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Yes, man. Yes, man.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

He yes manned himself right into poetry. All right. And so and through that, you know, I I I met I met a couple other poets and found, you know, open mics a go-to. And I eventually took a in 2017, I took a poetry class. Uh, it was a thousand dollars, and we met like uh once a month. And the goal with the class was to write a hundred poems over the course of the year. Oh wow. I finished by June.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

So you just overhead first.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

You're like, I'm gonna focus all of my attention on poetry.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah, because that was one of the things that I that was one of my best coping ways to cope with the divorce and the end the second relationship. Was like, you know, just channel all these emotions into something. Did that with cooking? Yeah. In the gym.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

What'd you do?

SPEAKER_02 31:43

I hate to say, but go ahead. I I hit the bars. I yes manned myself into bars and concerts and and kind of became a little bit of a D-Gen. But no, that was, you know, finding finding people to go hang out with. And I've yes manned myself into a lot of great situations. Um, a lot centralizing around going out for drinks or going to concerts or going to shows, going to the farmers market and getting specialty coffees from you know different vendors and stuff, and really just being out in my community and just being, and and not just sitting on my couch and sitting at home and turning into a vegetable and and just trying to do these things. And I also joined a gym and I joined a fight club, which was not I got I got injured pretty quickly. I reminded myself really fast I'm 40 and should not be kickboxing with 20 year olds. But definitely the calf feels great. It feels great. It's a little lumpy, it's still torn, but we're not having surgery. So that's good to hear. We're you know, we all had our things where we yes manned ourselves into new situations like your poetry and your cooking. Well, I also did kickball.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

I yes manned myself right into an adult kickball league. Best two summers of my life. They were fucking great.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

It just gives you something to focus on, to look forward to during the week. It gets you out and meeting people, and then you can make those connections and those relationships with those people. Um, and it's a it's a way for you to grow outside of the marriage that you are in. Because like everybody that I've ever talked to, myself included, who's gone through a marriage and a divorce, um, says that once you're in the marriage, things kind of like close off for you outside the world.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Yeah, you really become tunnel vision because the things that you're supposed to focus on, at least historically, is family and your wife and your household and everything is taking care of those things.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Exactly. Like the problem is that people forget that they also have to focus on themselves and take care of themselves. Um, and I think that's a huge problem in today's world is that people don't spend enough time on self-care. Uh for both you and if you're with somebody, your partner, it's very important that you are happy with yourself as well as your situation around you.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah. That was one of the signs for me and in my marriage uh was that you know, I have been writing poetry before marriage. I started writing poetry afterwards. I wasn't writing while I'm married.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Yeah. You you kind of give things up for the other person or in spite of the other person. Um and it's not necessarily a bad thing that you're giving these things up.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

You're focusing on whatever your life is at that moment. Um, but it is it's really interesting how much of yourself you give up to the family unit and the relationship. Um and it and it's a lot of unfortunate that you do give up so much of yourself. And then when you're by yourself again, it's like, oh, well, what I used to do today was take care of X, Y, and Z because my spouse needs this and my kids need that, or I've got to do this, or there's, you know, softball and baseball and soccer and whatever other things you're doing, and it's like, oh, well, I used to like to write poetry, and I don't have time to do that anymore. Well, you're single again, and it's like, oh, I've got to find myself, and I love writing poetry. So you want to do that.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Yeah, dive headfirst back into it. Kind of a fun question. What's the first selfish thing that you did after your your breakup?

Coping, Drinking, And Self-Care

SPEAKER_03 35:32

First self or second.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

What was the first selfish thing you did?

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Right. The first thing that you did after your split for Phil. I have my first beer. Your first beer. You were in one of those religions that doesn't drink. It doesn't drink, yeah. Oh shit. How did that beer taste?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

How did that taste? Uh it was a Bud Light and it was delicious. Wrong choice. Go on. Well, that's what the family drank. You know, uh, you know, a couple weeks after the divorce, there was a family vacation. And the whole time that I was in that that other religion, my brother was always, you want a beer? Phil, you want a beer? I always always said no, because I don't drink. That religion couldn't drink. And we're at the family vacation. I purposely waited until that vacation. Uh you know, after the divorce. And my brother's like, Phil, you want a beer? I'm like, yep. And he stopped at his tracks. He's like, What? He had to like think about what I just said.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

He's like, wait a second, I was asking, but I wasn't actually confirming what's going on. What do I do now? For so long that he didn't know how to take it serious. He's like, You're fucking with me, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Wait, you you're serious? No, you're fucking with me.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

I was just sitting at the pool and I was like, yep, I'm gonna have my first beer right here, Gulf Shores, Alabama.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Even better. Gulf Shores, Alabama. That's awesome. Everybody's got a bachelor pad. What did yours look like? When you moved out, did you move into your own place or did you move back in with parents?

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Uh moved back in with my parents, did that for a couple months, and then uh my high school buddy uh he and his fiance just needed help with rent. They had a spare bedroom, so I went to live with them for a little while. Um that worked until she got pregnant and then you get the room back.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

We're like, sorry, we love you, Phil, but time to move out. It's time to move out.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Get those wings and fly, bud. So uh I found myself a studio apartment here back here in Lexington and uh you know been living there ever since.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

When you when you moved in, was your furniture just a sleeping bag and a TV on the floor?

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Computer. Nice. Awesome computer. Yeah. Now is it fully furnished?

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Uh yeah, I just actually got a new bed recently. A friend of mine was uh he was moving in with a host girlfriend, didn't need his current bed. I needed a new bed.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

So did you buy a race car bed? Tell me you bought a race car bed. I did not buy a race car bed. God, Bill, you missed an opportunity, bud. No.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

I haven't slept in the bed yet because I need a box spring, and I just haven't gotten the box spring yet.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

I mean, those are a necessity.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah. As long as it's off the floor, you know. That's that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Exactly. Does your TV have a stand?

SPEAKER_01 38:18

I don't watch TV. You don't watch TV? I have a TV. It's been sitting in the corner, like not turned on for a while. That's commendable.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

I have a problem with not watching TV.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

I love background noise. Mine's on. Mine's literally playing something.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

I'm not at home and mine's got something playing because I can't stand the idea of not having the TV.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

I know what's on at my TV right now. There's cat TV for my cat right now. There's some squirrels eating fucking seeds on the TV right now.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

My dogs are probably watching overly hyperbolic news on YouTube, currently learning about the world that we live in.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah. I mostly watch uh I watch things on my phone. Like I'm big into like Twitch streamers and uh and let's players on YouTube. I I like to watch uh a lot of video game content. Okay. I used to play video games, but uh Did you give that up for her? Yeah. Get back into it. I tried to get back into it, but you know, this was this was a really depressing moment after the divorce. I was like, I'm bad at video games now. You're bad at video games. So you practice, you get better. I just gave up on it. Like I I I tried a couple times, and it was just it was never the same. And I didn't have the time to really practice and put into it, so I just eventually gave it up.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Did you did you have any unhealthy coping mechanisms that maybe you've already put away at this point? Unhealthy, I I was uh was the most unhealthy thing you did was have your first beer out at the beach.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Like, yeah, and the drinking never really became a problem. Like yeah, I I liked it at first and probably did a little bit more than I really needed to, but it never became a point where it was like a crutch for me. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

I I leaned heavily into the drinking. Um mostly at home. I didn't drink out, it was it was too expensive. I lived in Nashville by myself. I could I couldn't afford to go to the bars. Um but you, Matt.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Oh, I got heavily into drinking. That was that was a coping mechanism of numbing myself that was excessive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Um I think that a lot of guys fall into that trap. Um alcohol, drugs, whatever it is, they they numb you to the things that you're in your head still that you're worrying about, but they're not a solution. They're they're not they can make a knife better for a little bit. It was a way out, it was not a way to fix.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

That's what it's right. It's just it's a a distraction from the problem that you're unwilling to face. Yeah. Um, which actually kind of leads me uh into what I hope can become a sponsorship. Backtrack makes little portable breathalyzers. Oh, yeah. You've recently turned me on and I love them. They're great. Um, they have an app supported version now, which actually will tell you uh an estimate about how long it's gonna take you to get back to sober.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

I really I really like yours. You you got this new upgraded version. I've got the old school one, which did not have that in it.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

I mean, I used it the other night. Like we went out to a show, we went and saw Yuki uh at the Burl, and it's like midnight, and I tested, and I was like 0.81, and I was like, okay, well, I gotta I gotta 0.081. Jesus the point. Yeah, don't point you one, you're dead. Yeah. Um but I was like, okay, so I've got like at least an hour until I am good to drive again. So I look into them, guys. Seriously, I I think they're very beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Um yeah, they're they're really not that expensive either. And and one of the things that led me onto it is that the very first time that I really truly overdrank to the point that I lost time again, which doesn't happen for me. Um and I lost I lost time and hours of my night where I just was so drunk I had no idea where I was. Um and I woke up that next morning and I was like, okay, I number one, I need to do better. But number two, I'd really like to know when I'm way over the limit versus when I am well under the limit and and kind of make sure that I could plan my day around, unfortunately, my day drinking. I make sure that like, okay, I'm still good. It's eight o'clock at night, and uh I'm still good. We can keep going. I'm not I'm not over this moment. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

But I want to get back to answering your question about the unhealthy things. That I think uh there were times, you know, in the years since, you know, particularly when the rejections kind of mounted up, there are times where I've I kind of become reclusive. Like I I stop being the yes man.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

And I just stay at home. I don't do things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah. I I do that, I call it turtling.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah. And I I will turtle for like at like a week or two at a time, just not do anything.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. Sometimes like me specifically, I I'm what uh my wife calls an extroverted introvert. Like I love to go out and I love to have a good time for a set amount of time.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Yeah. Yeah, you've got a you've got a battery meter and it runs.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

As soon as my battery starts going down, I'm like, okay, that's enough. I'm peopled out now, I'm vented out now, whatever it is, and I have to recharge. And it's okay to take time. I have a shirt from a charity called Tourette Love on Her Arms, and on the back of the shirt is written, it's okay to stop and take care of yourself. And I also believe in that. It's okay for you to say, Hey, I need time for me. If you're in a relationship, if you're not in a relationship, you still need to prioritize taking care of yourself so that. That you can be the best person for everybody around you that you can be. What was the most unexpected, freeing part of living alone that you didn't anticipate?

SPEAKER_01 44:08

I think just that, like the freedom of it, like being able to going so long, being single. Like, you know, for a while it was like I'm lonely, I'm lonely, I like I don't like being by myself. But eventually it was like, you know, I'm not tied down by anything. So if people are going out to have drinks, I could just get up and go. Um, I have some some friends at chur at church who want to start a book club. I'm like, yeah, let's let's do it. Like I've been able to embrace spontaneity a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. Not have to not have to answer to anybody.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

The freedom to choose when and where you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Freedom, Community, And Closing Wisdom

SPEAKER_02 44:45

So what was something specifically for dudes that struggle with divorce that you wish someone would have told you out loud prior to, or even after?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Take the time to make sure you're okay. Heal those wounds, you know. Because when you when you get divorced, you know, there's gonna be an empty space there. And anything could get into that empty space. And I think I was fortunate about what I let in in the months afterwards. But it could also very easily go wrong for somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yeah, and and that healing really came with the relationships that you made with co-workers and friends and everything else in between, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Yes. Yeah, I I was really good about what I brought in. But also because I had not taken the time to heal, that relationship that came after could only go so far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Yeah. Well, guys, we've been on here for about an hour. Uh I think that's gonna be it. I think we're gonna sign off with Matt giving you some more words of wisdom today.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Well, as we do, I got a quote for us today. Uh, the name is Mary Ainsworth. And uh her quote is fucking brand, dude. Healing often happens inside a safe, corrective relationship, not before them. And I'd like to really think that that is the relationships that we make, the friendships that we make. This is not necessarily a romantic relationship, but the people that we surround ourselves is what helps us heal. And having that and finding that, and I really believe that that's what we're trying to do here is to create a community of men that we can reach out to and talk to and communicate with and just spend time with, whether it's bowling or trivia or whatever the the idea is that we can come together and community.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Creating a safe space 100% where nobody's gonna judge you because you're having a bad day and you just want to let out that you're struggling. Like I think that's a lot a thing that a lot of guys forget about is that it's okay to vocalize that you're struggling. Yeah, it's not to be stoic. Um so on that, reach out to us, divorced dudespodcast at gmail.com. Uh, website will be up soon. Keep looking out for that. And uh until next time, divorce dudes out. Divorce dudes out.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

There goes Benath.