Chicken Quesadilla

A chicken quesadilla, a first date that includes meeting the parents, and a relationship that goes from new to married in the blink of an eye, Tanya’s divorce story is as wild as it is human. We sit down with her to trace how leaving an abusive relationship can reshape your definition of safety, and how chasing stability can quietly turn into losing yourself. If you’ve ever searched for divorce advice that feels real, or wondered why “secure” doesn’t always mean “healthy,” this conversation will hit close.

We talk about the hard middle: becoming the version of a spouse your partner wants, living a life that looks stable on paper, and realizing you’re done with your milestones while you’re still in your early 20s. Then everything collapses in rapid succession: a premature birth, the death of her mother, and her husband coming out as gay. We explore the tension between compassion and heartbreak, the pressure of religion and family expectations, and why trying to “stay together for the kids” can feel right while still doing damage.

The story doesn’t stop at the split. Tanya shares what it’s like to have the kids taken, to sit in an apartment with nothing but your thoughts, and to claw your way back through boundaries, community, and relentless presence in your children’s lives. If you care about mental health after divorce, custody realities, and co-parenting that evolves over time, you’ll take a lot from this one. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs hope, and leave us a review, what part of Tanya’s story did you relate to most?

Transcript

Tanya’s Story Begins

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome back to the Divorce News Podcast. I'm Zach. And I'm Matt. And I'm Phil. And today we have a special guest. We have Tanya with us. She's going to tell us her story. She's a divorce dudet. Welcome.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

And well, well, hello. I was about to say welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

She might be a little nervous.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

I'm a little nervous, but I guess I can be a dudette.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

It goes away. So tell us about yourself real quick. Who are you?

SPEAKER_04 0:29

So I am Tanya. I am 38 years old, gonna be 39 soon. And I have been divorced for 13 years.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

So how long were you together?

SPEAKER_04 0:46

We were married for three years.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Three years. Yeah. That sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Did you sound sure? Yes. Yes. How long? How long did you guys date prior to?

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Three months.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Three months.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Three months? Wow. Did he knock you up? Was it a shotgun wedding?

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Yes, it totally was. Oh my god. It was a shotgun wedding. It was actually a shotgun wedding after running away from a long-term relationship. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Lots of choices were made. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

A lot of choices were made, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Um, so uh why did you run away from a long-term relationship?

Running From Abuse Into Fast Love

SPEAKER_04 1:25

Um I was in a relationship from my junior year in high school till I was 22 um with a guy that I honestly thought was gonna be everything, and he wound up getting into heroin. Oh shit. Became very physically abusive.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

That's a good reason to run away.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Yeah, I left New York and went to Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Okay. Well, I mean, uh listen, dudes, congratulations. Don't do that. Yes, thanks. Don't do that. Don't do that. That's that's bad. Roll up the newspaper, Brian, bad. So you got out of a long-term relationship. You I'm assuming you how did you meet this guy? You meet him at a bar? Did you were you out just like at the grocery store and he came up to you?

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Like work.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Work. From work. Yeah. What were you doing?

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Uh so I worked as a personal care aide. Um, and we worked overnights together. He was also a personal care aide, but I was three years older than him, so I was actually and had more experience, so I was actually ill. At that point, he was uh 19. No, at that point he was 18, so yes, yes, I was just bareway.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Oh my god. Oh my god. She knew what she wanted. So you guys are both working at healthcare. And uh you guys just kind of started talking at the job and then so no, a chicken quesadilla is what started it all. That's the title of this episode.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

Chicken quesadilla started it all. So he had actually called me and wanted me to cover his shift because he was too high. I talked to him, everything is fine. He told me that I could say whatever I wanted. So um he was too high. So he wanted me to cover his shift, so I did. And as a thank you, he asked me next time we worked together what I wanted, and it was a chicken quesadilla. I didn't find out till much later that he went like 30 minutes out of his way to get me a chicken quesadilla from Taco Bell.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Does this bring back some memories, Matt? Does this like have some PTSD for him?

SPEAKER_02 3:32

It's the it's the iced tea and chicken nuggets.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

You're up in the thousand-yard stair here. Like there's helicopters and napalm flying by.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

It's amazing how there are so many stories, there's so many elements that are the same across them all.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Hey guys, you don't have to go to the bar, just bring the girl you like some food. Apparently, that's all it takes. I mean notes.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

If I've if I've learned anything about women, it's cheese and tacos and wine. Listen, if you if you want to win your a woman over, bring her some some tacos and a glass of wine, yours. Guaranteed.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

And it's feed me and liquor me up.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Simple. They're simple creatures. I don't know why we have such a problem. Okay, so he homie brought you a uh a chicken quesadilla.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Yeah, he was 18, so he couldn't bring me anything to drink.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

That's sad. That's an obstacle. So did you bring him drinks?

SPEAKER_04 4:23

Uh no.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Not yet.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Not yet. Not yet. Because this is before you corrupted him.

SPEAKER_04 4:29

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Okay. Okay. So he brought you the chicken quesadilla, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Like you guys just decided that you were it it got me, it got me talking to him, which is kind of like it opened up that door of like comfortability. Like we got to know each other. We talked all night, and then he had asked me if I wanted to go out on a date. We did. We went to Applebee's, got the two for 20, and then he There's a song about this.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Yeah, right. Um, and then he actually brought me, he lived very far away from where I lived in the middle of absolutely nowhere. And he brought me on our first date back to meet his parents.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

So where were you living at this time? Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Wait a second. First date he brought you to meet his parents?

SPEAKER_04 5:17

First date. Yeah. No, I like walked in and he lived in a single wide trailer on like 15 acres of land in the middle of nowhere. And as we're driving there, I don't know, I know him, but I don't know him. I'm like going back roads in the middle of the woods to this like single wide trailer in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

This is the opening of a horror movie. Yes. I've seen this movie booming. Balfaster. What is that?

SPEAKER_04 5:44

Yeah, no, that it was it was interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

It was interesting. What part of the country are you in?

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Uh we were in northeastern Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Okay. So not whole country. This is this is before you were in New York?

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Uh, this was after I was in New York. I had left New York. I grew up in New York, so the reason I left New York was to get away from my ex that I went to high school with.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

That's the guy that was abusive, and then you decided you were gonna.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Yep. I went to live with my dad in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

So I lived with my dad and my stepmom when so he's brought you to the single-wide trailer in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania. Um, what's going through your head at this point?

SPEAKER_04 6:31

I hope I don't die.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

This is it. I mean, he's brought you food. He didn't poison you, he didn't drug you.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

Like well, he fed me, but I didn't know if he was gonna put me in the barn in the back.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah. I mean, you put cheese on mousetraps, so what convinced you to go?

SPEAKER_04 6:48

I was in the car. I really didn't have a choice. He just drove, and I was like, okay, I guess we're doing this.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

So he said, Hey, you want to go meet my mom pa?

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

So his grandmother was one of the patients at the nursing home. I'll preface that, but yeah, no, it was you want to come to my house. And his parents were not super old, but when I walked in, they were both in like rocking chairs in their like robes, reading the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

And I've definitely seen this movie. People died in this movie. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

The whole thing was kind of like that. But yes, that's exactly what it was. It was, hey, are these are my parents? Come meet them.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

And then you decided to date this guy still? Yeah, I was just wondering. You like you went on a second date.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

It wasn't really a date, it just kind of morphed into a relationship. Like that was it. We were doing Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

You already met mom and dad, so I guess we're dating.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

I mean that's exactly what happened. It just morphed into something, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Okay, guys. Uh chicken quesadilla, wine, and just close proximity. That's literally all you need. Don't be a creepy stalker. Don't go to the grocery store and follow a girl around with a chicken quesadilla and a bottle of wine. You know what?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

This worked for him, but I suggest you don't bring them back to mom and dad.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Not on the first date. Day one. No. Well, I mean, they got married.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

So again, I'm saying it worked, but I I don't think that's a that's a thing we should do. So how was it meeting mom and dad the first day?

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Um his dad is very unique. His dad is a i he is an older child baby. So his parents had him later in life, actually, is what I should say. Oh his parents had him later in life. He's got much older siblings. So his parents, his dad was in uh the Vietnam War. So he definitely has some effects left over, some PTSD effects left over from that. So he's unique.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

He's unique.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

He's unique.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Where's that thousand-yard stare again I was talking about? I'm sure that he just in the rocking chair.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Very stoic man.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

Um he's got very loud opinions on everybody who isn't fitting in certain stereotypes.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

That happens.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

That happens. That the whole generation's kind of like that.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

Yeah. But I took him for what he was and just kind of moved forward from there.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Okay. So uh the first date was um Meet Mom and Dad. Interesting. How was the state? 90 days later, you're married.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Well, that's because of my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Was it dad with a shotgun?

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Uh no, it was more like mom with a bible.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Mom with a Bible. That's just as scary. That's very scary.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Yeah. Uh, very, very scary. Um, my family was you don't have to do this, we'll help you out, we'll take get it taken care of. And his family was you are getting married immediately.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So we're we're learning some stuff about Tanya here. Um first date, meet the parents, she puts out.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

Okay, so no. If I was that easy, I wouldn't be in the predicament I'm in now.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

But you wouldn't have two kids.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

No. Um so we I know exactly where and when my daughter was conceived, funny enough. And it wasn't the first date. It was more like the third or fourth. But that's date-wise. You you gotta we work together. We knew each other.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

How long how long had you guys known each other prior to the quesadilla?

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Uh a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Just a couple of weeks. So this is still very fresh, very new.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

You just got to work at the new new job, new town.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Yes.

Pregnancy And Bible Pressure

SPEAKER_04 10:53

And I found out that I was pregnant with Bella at the beginning of December.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Wow. Wow. Was this like a Gray's Anatomy we met in the closet kind of thing?

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Or no. Um, this was I kind of had a feeling I was pregnant. I was like, I don't think that I'm ready for this, like kind of going through all the emotions. I said something to him. He was excited, which I'll get to in a second. He was excited. I took the pregnancy test, it came up positive. And I was like, this is this is not not accurate.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

He just can't be real.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

He took the pregnancy test, dipped it in the toilet water, and it came up positive.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I I thought you were going to go somewhere different with he took the pregnancy test. He's like, it doesn't work that way. Um so you you were now pregnant. You're what? How how how far in are you?

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Probably a month. A month and a half.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

A month and a half.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

So you at this point are deciding to get married.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Because mom mom's got a Bible.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Well, mom has a Bible, and Nathan has another girl pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Wait, what? Oh. What? The story just gets juicier and juicier.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

I told you. I told you I had some interesting things to say.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

So now he's got two kids.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

He does. So he has a daughter that is five months older than my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

He's not Mormon, is he?

SPEAKER_04 12:28

He is not. No, he's actually Baptist.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

He's Baptist. He's Baptist. He's a bad Baptist.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Not very good at it. No.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

So I I I know a little bit about your history. He's a really bad Baptist. Yes. Yes. We'll get to that in a minute. Um okay. So you get pregnant, you get married. Um how was how is life after that? Like you this is such a brand new relationship that I do you do the like you ran away to Vegas and now you're like, oh my god, I'm stuck with this person.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Kind of. So I think I was not over the wounds from the first relationship, from the relationship I was coming out of when I jumped into the relationship with him. And he wasn't also. So to keep me, I played my part. Or to click keep him, I played my part. To keep me, he played his. So our engagement present was a new car.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

Um, he right away he owned 15 acres of land. We right away started building a house. Okay. Um, he offered to send me back to school. There was a lot of financial enticements that I figured I could make work. I would love this person eventually.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, so it was a very transactionary kind of relationship.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Oh, 100%. At the beginning, yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

I think there's a lot of um what's that in some cultures where they like find your partner. But like an arranged marriage. Like an arrangement, yes, this feels very like a much an arranged marriage where eventually you like grow to love the person that you're with, but like at the beginning you're just like, I can get something out of this, so I'm gonna just stick it out and see where it goes.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

And you don't always grow into marriage, you know. That's true. That's part of my story. Like I thought I'd I thought it would work out if I gave it enough time, and it just didn't.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

It just didn't work out. Um so you're now married, right? Three months later, you got the house, you got a new car, uh, you have a kid coming. Um how are the next few years? Like, did you eventually get to the point where you were able to like, I'm in love with this guy?

Trad Wife Life And Lost Identity

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Yes. So I loved our I loved him, but I also loved our life. I got used to the simpleness of it. We definitely took a New York, Long Island girl who ordered takeout, through in the middle of the woods, and I learned to make bread. I learned to make all of my food from scratch. I was we had seven horses that I was mucking their stalls.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

She turned into a trad wife. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

And no, I a hundred percent did turn into a trad life wife. I wasn't even working. I was going to school for like the first couple months of our of our relationship. I was able to stay at home and and cook the meals and and be the one putting everything on the table while he provided. And I think he liked that a lot. And I think part of me started to lose myself in it.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So, like you lost kind of like your independence uh by becoming somebody else's wife.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

And I think I s I think I started to resent it.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

So I I kind of went through the same thing with mine. Um, where I turn I don't know if you guys can hear this on the microphones, but one of the dogs is snoring. Um I was wondering what that was.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

It's quite loud.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Adorable. I do apologize.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

We have a gas leak, guys.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

She's so sweet. She's such a cute little thing. Um but yeah, I I I kind of became that also, where I was um just kind of a a partner to, you know, the the person that I was with. Uh I didn't really have my own identity anymore because I was their husband. Um and that led to a lot of a lot of issues later because I uh it I became I became um resentful of the fact that you know I couldn't have my own life. Yeah. Like I was I was her husband and I was there to provide for her and to take care of her, but at the same time, I wasn't able to take care of me because I was I was too focused on other things.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Um Yeah, I think I think that work that that happens to a lot of people. I think that even in includes myself to a degree. I don't think I ever became resentful of it, but that was such my identity as the provider that's you know working two jobs and and doing the things that were needed that I was disjointed from the relationship itself, where I was just going through the motions and doing what was expected rather than being this is a participant.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

I also did the the two jobs thing, and like you were looking at 14-hour days between the two jobs, and I wasn't writing anymore and not doing any of the any of the things I liked, and and you know and then she tried to call me when I have when I have a moment to myself, she'd call and she'd call and call. I tried not to answer, but she just kept calling until I finally picked up, and there goes my half hour.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I think this is actually a very good point. Um that we say this all the time. It's is it's as important to take care of yourself as it is to take care of your partner. Um that holds true in every relationship. You can't be a good partner if you don't really like yourself. Um I I really do apologize for the dog story. I can hear her in my headphones. But like if you lose yourself in a relationship because you're more focused on the the person that you're trying to be for your partner, you're eventually going to resent your partner.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Um so anyway, back to your story. Um we were we were talking about how you became the trad wife and you were making bread. Was it was it good?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

It was good. It was actually funny enough.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Were you one of the original sourdough girls? Was this during COVID?

SPEAKER_04 19:06

We're talking about 2010.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

So well before you were like the OG sourdough girl.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

Right? Um, yeah, no. Uh I was pregnant, eight months pregnant, was taking his truck down to get bales of hay and then taking them off the truck and putting them up for with the Kubota. Like that's farm girl. Uh no, I had muck boots.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Oh, not the muck boots. I love my muck boots. Listen, I wear them all winter. They're fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

In Long Island, we don't wear a lot of muck boots. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

If you guys want to sponsor us, I will take free pairs of boots.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah, I'm a size 13 if muck needs to know.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

I'll do reviews. Uh I I don't care. Send them to us. Um, so you're you're you're on the farm now.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

And you're just living life as the trad wife.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

I'm living some sort of life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

How how is that affecting you mentally?

SPEAKER_04 20:03

So I was scared I was done with my milestones.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

So that's actually that's huge.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

So I was 23. So now we're gonna we're gonna include Bella being born. I was 23 years old. I've done the college thing, I've done the marriage thing, I've bought a house, I had a baby, and I'm like, I'm done. I'm 22 years old, I have probably hopefully like 70 years left, and I'm done with my milestones. What does life have to offer after this? Like, there's nothing. I'm just pigeonholed and I'm gonna be in that rocking chair making quilts. Yeah. And that's not what I wanted at all.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

So uh you're starting to realize that this isn't the life for you.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

Um I'm starting to start to realize it's not the life for me, but also at that point starting to open my husband up to my world instead of his. So Explain. Taking him to New York for his 21st birthday. I took him out. We went out partying and and you know, I I'm introducing him to my family who's open and accepting and and you know, willing to, you know, my uncle's gay and you know, like my family is very open and his is very not. So I'm trying to drag him into my world to find some peace for myself instead of living in, you know, Sunday Bible, Wednesday Bible study, choir, make food, change the diapers, do the monotony.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yeah. You're you're you're trying to bring the city to your farm life at this point.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah. There was a TV show in like the what sixties, seventies.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Green Acres.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah. It's a place to be. Um, it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

The city girl comes to the forum and and she was trying to bring the Beverly Hillbillies to him.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

I didn't like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

We're basically like talking about TV land. We're all fucking old.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Nick at night.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yes. Um how did he take it?

SPEAKER_04 22:27

He took to it very, very well. He actually enjoyed it. Um his 21st birthday, he got so drunk he left me and my friend and and wound up sleeping all night in the back of my best friend's car after puking on himself.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

He had a hangover. He had a hangover night. Yeah. Yeah. That's a movie in itself. Also, um, this is actually a thing, right? These people that grow up hyper conservative. Um the the Amish, I think it's the Amish, it might be the Mennonites. I don't I don't really know the difference. I'm sorry. Rumspringer. Rumspringer. That's what I was going. Like they could kind of go crazy, right? Because they're experiencing the outside world for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yeah, they get they get literally shipped out of their community to experience life and decide if they want to come back.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah, so you were his Rumspringer.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

I was. Um so fast forward, we had my son.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You were pregnant with a daughter first.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

I was pregnant with my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

And 20 months later we had my son.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

God, you were pregnant for three years. Yeah. God, you were a trad wife.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

I really was.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Like keep him shoeless and pregnant. He like lived that dream.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

And I bought into it. I bought into it for security. Yeah. I bought into it because my life, uh, as as open as my family is, my life was not secure. So I bought into it for security, for the stability, for the person, for my person to have somebody who was finally by my side. And it didn't turn out that way.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

So you really did run away from some pretty much massive chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Ended up trad wife for security. Yeah. And now you're having regrets at this point, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

So child number two. So during this time where you're like showing him your life, did that open you back up to be like, oh, should I miss this? Like, this is where I grew up, this is what I was doing. Um, I kind of want to get back to this. Is that kind of what set off the like the resentment or the hey, this might not be for me?

SPEAKER_04 24:49

Yes. And I did while I was pregnant try to run away from my ex-husband, and he did follow me and bring me back.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Uh lasso'd looking. But it's a good cowboy. Now, when you say ran away, you went back to dad's house?

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Um, about six months pregnant. I went, I'm married at this point, went back to my aunt's house in Long Island.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Ran away, ran away. Went back straight back to New York.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

Yeah, I went back to New York and he went and got me. And I think that was his own secure insecurity because of his previous daughter. That's what she did. She left and he let her leave, and she never came back. He came and got me back.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Yeah, he wasn't gonna lose you. The the loss of the daughter is like compounded by the loss of his wife. So he's like, I can't let that happen again.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

So you're back at Long Island, he comes back. Um where where does it kind of go from there? Like uh how how far in is this two years?

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Uh yeah. So it was about it was about two years when my um son was born, all of this was kind of count compounding. Uh um, I will take you to the three months of events that ruined my life. Okay.

Grief And A Marriage Plot Twist

SPEAKER_00 26:22

We're ready for that.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

So I was pregnant with Jackson. Had Jackson. I have a very strained or had a very strained relationship with my mother. My mother chose men and alcohol over me all the time. So we had started to repair that because of my ex-husband, and she had come up for my son being born. Um, she wasn't able to come up for Bella because she was actually in prison, if that tells you anything. Um she came up for Jackson to see him born, and that was actually the last time I ever seen her because uh a couple weeks later she had passed away.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

That's awful. Um sorry to hear.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

She was attempting to get her life back on track, but she was never able to actually do it.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

So um, I had my son, he was premature, proclamatic, my mother passed away, and then three weeks after my mother passed away, uh my husband told me he was gay.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Well, that's a turn. Well, that's the other shoe dropping right there.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Um plot twist. Um, do you think well, I'm not sure where to go from here. Um the do you think that you opened him up to this?

SPEAKER_04 28:00

I think that I showed him it was acceptable to some people.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Um, I don't think he ever fully thought his parents would ever accept him, but I showed him it was acceptable to some.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

So I I I think this is a good point right now. It's currently um Pride Month. Yes. And uh there are there's a large group of people um who are marginalized because of the fact that they happen to love the same sex that you know they are.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

It's it's a terrible thing. I I think that it's it's tragic that there's a lot of people in this world that just can't love who they want to love because of the stigma behind I I don't know, the the Bible or religion or whatever says it's bad. Um as much as I I hate it for you that he he just you know found his truth, um, I'm kind of happy for him because he's able to actually live that life now that's gonna make him happy.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

I wasn't mad at him then.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

I wasn't mad at him then. Honestly, uh when he came out to me, I said to him, I was like, listen, I was like, I love you, I'm gonna support you. I

Trying To Stay Married For Kids

SPEAKER_04 29:22

said, for our kids' sake, why don't we stay together in marriage, like husband, wife, mom, dad, play that part and live our separate lives outside of the house. I was willing to support him and be his support system for that.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Was that just because of the security?

SPEAKER_04 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah. So I think there's a lot of guys that can also do this, um, where they'll stay. I was one of them, they'll stay with the marriage that's just kind of okay. Um, it's not really fulfilling to them, it's not actually what they desire in life, but they're they're willing to like take the the hit, I guess, uh, because it's it's safe. Yeah. Right. And taking the risk of going after what you want or what you like the idea that maybe I could be happy. It takes a lot of courage. It takes a it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Um, so if you're in one of those relationships, I I I think that it's it's a good idea to reflect and see if maybe you would be happier somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Yeah, it was I mean, I we s we lived in the same house separated for five years. Like I understand like trying to keep it together for the kids and trying to play your roles in the home. It it it seems like the right thing to do at the time. And a lot of times it's not it's not good for you, it's not good for the kids, it's not good for anybody in involved.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Exactly. I I think that the kids are actually happier when the parents are happy, separated, than when they're kind of unhappy or miserable together.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Like it just shows the kids that you know it's okay that we're not together anymore. We still love you, we still want to be your parents, we're still gonna try to take care of you. But like you have to be happy with like I say this again, you have to be happy with yourself to be a good partner, be a good parent.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Right? You can't just be unhappy and be a good person, it just doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

I completely agree on that.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Um, so you he's he's come out now.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Um you guys decided to do this thing together. Yeah, we decided this now lasts for about a year?

SPEAKER_04 31:42

About a year. So I had well, he had actually wound up seeing somebody first. So it comes out later that there was he had actually been unfaithful in our marriage, as have was I emotionally.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

Um, because I was looking, I was searching for something, I was searching for somebody to satisfy that part of me. Because we were very different. He grew up very sheltered, I grew up very exposed. So coming together was difficult in general. His parents found out because he got scared that we were separating and decided to tell them that he was not gay and that I was having an affair, and that's why our marriage was breaking up, because he did not want to face them yet.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, that's actually that sucks. It's pretty common to project your fears onto your partner, and I kind of see like he doesn't want to disappoint his parents, right? By saying, Oh, hey, I'm gay. Um, so it's her fault.

unknown 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Right. Kind of safe face. Um that's not fair to you. That's not fair to them, actually, because he's lying to him. But I kind of understand where he's coming from. Like it's it's really hard to look your parents in the eye and say, hey, I'm not the person you thought I was.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

It's an almost impossible place to be in, because you know, I had a similar experience when I told my parents that I'm switching religions for for my girl. And that was just you know, to see the the change in their face, you know, that the that crumpled expression, like, oh my god, this is this is one of our worst fears, is playing out now. Is it's really hard to take emotionally to see to to hurt somebody like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah. I think I must be the only black sheep that was happy to tell my parents all the stupid shit I was doing. It was almost like a badge of honor, like, hey, look at me. I'm not doing what you said I was gonna do, but I'm doing what I'm gonna do because I'm gonna be me.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

But yeah, you got more courage than all of us. That's okay. You come to it eventually.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Way to go, Matt.

unknown 34:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

So now you're you're in the point of uh the relationships kind of falling apart, you're you're deciding that you don't want to be together anymore, you get divorced. Um what do you guys do? Does he like go to the person that he was unfaithful with, and you go to the person that you were kind of like so emotionally unfaithful with?

SPEAKER_04 34:20

No, my my emotional cheating partner definitely we that would not have worked. That was basically reincarnating my relationship before my uh before I got married. Um so he actually in telling his parents that it was all me, he actually on Memorial Day wound up bringing a girl to my house for barbecue because I lived next door to his parents. Um so wound up bringing a girl to the barbecue. Um, and that's kind of how everything, the final straw ended on that.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Um wait, so you were there.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Did did they know at the time that you guys were separating?

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Yes, but they knew we still lived together.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Okay. So that was like the the final nail of the coffin. He brought somebody else home, and they were like, oh, it's over.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Oh, she was welcome, I wasn't. Oh she was welcome, I wasn't. And she thought it was her place to bring me a plate of food from the barbecue, which she walked away from my porch. I did not do anything. I count that as one of my wins in life.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

As someone who knows Tanya, I'm really surprised she didn't leave with a black eye.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

I'm very proud of her for the restraint.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

I was smoking a cigarette on my porch. She walks up when I'm not allowed to go to this barbecue, and I'm I can see everybody having fun. She walks up with this plate of food and goes, I thought you were hungry. I said, Take your plate of food and yourself and get off my porch.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is like uh the beginning of a Jerry Springer episode.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

Oh no, it was it it it it got really bad.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

So we're hitting all designers today.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Should we reincarnate it? Should we bring Jerry Springer back? Let's bring people down to the studio and like kind of throw chairs at each other.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

When we when we finally decided to separate, he actually decided to twist the final knife and took my kids.

Custody Shock And The Loneliest Nights

SPEAKER_00 36:14

No shit.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Well, I I know for a fact now that they're back.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Um, how was that? Like what what was that through the divorce that he decided to take him, or did he just say, hey, they're not coming home with you anymore?

SPEAKER_04 36:30

So he had wound up in a relationship with somebody who is now his husband. Um, his parents now knowing he was gay, still didn't want him living at the house. I had moved out and had my own place at this point because I was seeing someone. And he asked me if I would move his boyfriend into my house so that he so that so that he could still see him, but he wouldn't be in his house. And I agreed because I'm stupid and will literally do anything for the people I care about, but I allowed his husband or his boyfriend at the time to move in, and my boyfriend was like, What the hell are you doing? You just allowed some random guy to move into your house that you don't even know for your ex-husband.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Wait, babe, baby, he's gay. It's okay. Yeah, I'm sure that went over well.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

But that's what I said, and he's like, but he could kill you in your sleep. You don't know him. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 37:37

I think there's only uh Jeffrey Dahmer was gay.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

Yeah, no, he was.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

He could have killed you in your sleep.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Could have.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

And then eating your heart.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

So I asked my I asked Nate's Brian. I asked Brian to leave, and that's when it got really ugly.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Brian is the boyfriend.

SPEAKER_04 37:58

Brian is the boyfriend, and now the husband. Same guy.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

I mean, I can I can kind of understand where like he's coming from. You said yeah, you could stay here, but then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, whoa, my boyfriend doesn't like this, so you gotta go. But at the same time, like you gotta reflect me like this is uh my ex's ex-wife, or this is my boyfriend's ex-wife. This is awkward as it is anyway. So this is like, why are we even trying to do this?

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Yeah. And let's be honest, the amount of chaos and the amount of balls to ask my ex-wife to allow my boyfriend to move in with them. There's no way. I I'm so astounded that that's never the scenario. Never.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

It's the same guy that brought his first date. Uh brought his girl home on the first date to meet the parents.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

True. He's kind of dumb.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

But it's all working out for him somehow.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Uh yeah, I mean, he's uh and you know, a marriage, he's got kids, he's um discovered himself.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Uh he's listening to this and or will be listening to this, and naive more than dumb.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Okay. So I don't want to say dumb. That's true. We're gonna have him on. We're actually gonna get this guy on here. He will be on, yes. The other side of his conversation.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

He's gonna he's gonna get to defend himself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

We have to rip him a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

We're gonna we're gonna believe me, there's gonna be some questions like what the hell were you thinking about asking your ex-wife to let your boyfriend stay over?

SPEAKER_04 39:39

I agreed.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Yeah, what were you thinking? Jesus. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

W Tanya loves she's a people pleaser. Yeah, she's a people pleaser.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

Yeah. Go ahead. So after I was like, no, he can't live here, blah, blah, blah. He moved into my old house with my ex-husband.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

How many houses did you have?

SPEAKER_04 40:05

No, this is uh this is the one we built. He moved into the house that I built with my ex-husband. Next door to his next to his chair. Okay, okay. And that's where they lived. And he told me that I was not financially responsible nor emotionally responsible to take care of our kids and had no support system. So he was going to take them.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Um do we now involve courts at this point? What it would be.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

I was too scared.

unknown 40:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah, I'm sure that was devastating too. Like this is I think this is one of the things that I personally don't have kids, uh, but I know guys who have gone through divorce um who do. And the big thing that they're always worried about they're not they're not ever worried about their ex-wife, but they're always worried about their children. Um I think it's a it's a disservice in the United States that uh the judge will usually side with the woman. I I I d uh I wouldn't say disservice, but the rulings are usually not in favor of the dad. Um it's not their fault. And I think that that's a bad thing. Now I know there are there are other circumstances, but it's typically the mom that gets custody. Um so I can't imagine like he's like, I'm gonna take the kids, and you were like, Wait, what?

SPEAKER_04 41:35

And there's a stigma that comes with that. There's a stigma that comes with a mother not having her children. They automatically go, What is wrong with you? Like what why like are you on drugs? Are you like a like a prostitute? Like, what is wrong with you that you don't have your kids? I was just afraid. He had built my life by getting me the car, the house, the education. He'd built my life and then took it away, and I had nothing to grab on to. I didn't have the kids, the house, the husband. It was all gone. And it was just me.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Yeah. That actually I think that happens a lot too on the other side, um, where the wife will will basically take everything and leaves the guy like uh on their own. Uh I see this on on Reddit all the time. There's a subreddit called Male Living Spaces, and it's some dude, and he's got a TV and a mattress, and they're both on the floor in the middle of his apartment. That's literally all he's got left. Um and I just want to like say that it's it's okay. Like you can start over. Um it's gonna be tough, but you'll get through it. Like there there are people that like us that will support you. They want we want to be there for you. Um you just have to find those people. And it's the same thing for you. Like, I'm sure that after all of this, you were kind of lost, right?

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Uh I was I was most definitely lost. And like I said, I I was dating somebody at the time, but I didn't give that relationship what I should have, because piece of a piece of me was missing. Like I only had my kids every other weekend. I played in and listening to your other episodes, I that's why I reached out because I was like, I've been on the other side. I've had the kids taken away, I've had the the the lonely nights, the everything is gone. And that is a loneliness that I don't think a lot of people experience.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Right. What the routine is gone, yeah, the the chaos of life is gone. It's just you and your thoughts. Yeah. And that's kind of the hardest part about being divorced, either like as a dude or a dudette, right? It's That deafening silence when you get home and there's nothing else there. Just you and an empty space.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Right. It's just you and your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Right. And I I think that I still kind of play into this because I always have to have a TV on now, no matter where I am. Because I can't stand silence anymore. Like I when I when I was married the first time, like my silence was kind of refreshing. Right. But then you go and you get into a new place and you're by yourself, and that silence becomes deafening. Like you can the the the tinnitus in your ears is ringing. Yeah. So you put something on and you get that habit because it's comforting. And it's really hard to get out of. But I think one of the ways to do that is to find some community somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Yeah. Until I found the community, that was audiobooks and music for me. It that's something on my ear constantly. Right. The house was never quiet, even though I was alone, because I needed that background noise of something exactly to help distract me from how lonely that is.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yeah. So now there's you know trivia nights, there's single nights, there's like all of these things that you can do by getting out and finding a group of people to just hang out with. And that's kind of like what we're trying to do here. We're trying to build the community for people who are lonely. It doesn't matter if you're a divorced dude or a divorce dudette. Come and meet up with us. Like, yeah, we we want you to be there. We we we're building this community for everybody so that there's an outlet for people that feel alone.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah. The name, the name and the title, yes, we're a divorced dudes podcast, but it's because we're two divorced dudes. This is well, three. Three now. Three divorced dudes. Yeah. This is this is growing, and we've got dudettes because this is a community of people who need to find a community, and we're trying to build that.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Correct. Well, let's go back to Tanya. Um, so now you're alone, yeah. Just taking your kids. Um I know you have them back now. They live with you.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

What transpired in in the interim to make that happen?

SPEAKER_04 46:20

Um so me and my ex's husband still to this day ha he calls me his sister wife. We have a very strained relationship. It's very superficial. Um there was one incident. There

Taking Back Motherhood And Co-Parenting

SPEAKER_04 46:38

was one instance where they were picking the kids up after spending, I think, one of the school vacations with me. And my ex-husband and his husband took the kids out of my apartment because I was alone alone at this point up in Pennsylvania, and he dragged my daughter out from behind the couch and said, If you don't quit your crying, you'll never see your mother again. And I was like, I am not gonna ever let that happen. And I started inserting myself into things.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Yeah. So I didn't went to war. Oh no. Yeah, Mama Bear finally woke up. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

I uh started becoming like softball team mom and you know, or not softball, t ball team mom, and like working the concession stands and and doing activities at my kids' schools, just I was like, you're never going to not see me here. You're never not gonna see me at anything. Concerts, activities, plays. I was going to find a way to be there.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

Yeah. So you you you interjected yourself purposefully into every aspect of their life so that they could not be without you.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Yeah, because I felt like they were trying to push me out. They were trying to push me out like I wasn't the mother. They were trying to be the main family.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Yeah. Yeah, that actually kind of happened to me. My mom and dad got divorced when I was, I don't know, like five or six, four. I I don't know, really early. Um so I was with my mom most of the year, but I would spend my summers with my dad, and it was always awkward because my dad and his wife at the time, I had I don't even give her the respect to call her my stepmom because she was quite the bitch, um, would always try to make it seem like their life, their house was better. Um, the life with them would be better, like you would be better served by being here versus being with your mom down in Tennessee. Like I get kind of that idea, but my mom was like you. My mom was like, oh hell no. This is my son. If you guys want to see him, you're gonna spend you're gonna come to me. Like I'm not I'm not giving you up.

SPEAKER_04 49:05

No.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Um, so I kind of get where you're coming from because my mom was the same way.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

It took me, it took me longer than it should have to wake up, though. It took me longer than it should have because I sunk into my own depression of everything was gone. I sunk into my own, like, like I said, I had listened to you guys before, and the whole like wanting to be done with everything, just be better off not here than here, played in my mind. And I just I wasn't willing to roll over and be done like my mother. So again, we brought up my mom again. She wasn't there raising me, my father raised me, and I refused to just be my mom and let somebody else raise her kids that I'm like I'm responsible for them. I brought them here, I'm the reason they're here. It's my job to guide them.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

The the mental health hit of of divorce and that that loss of your identity is incredibly tragic and it's very hard to overcome. Yeah. Matt and I have both been there.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Um I don't know if Phil went through the same kind of I I think because I I knew the divorce was coming, yeah, and I had spent like a good year like preparing myself for it. I didn't really hit that loneliness bit. Like it was there was still loneliness. It was still hard to be in in sleeping alone. But uh, but I had I had community, I had my family that I was able to move back in with. I had I had prepared myself for that side of it.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

So that that's that goes back to the community thing, right? It's always important to find your people. You gotta you gotta find or build. Like if if you're by yourself, like get out and just there are there are apps, there are meetup, there are other things that you can do. Go to a concert, go to a bar even and sit at the at the bar and have a conversation with a stranger. You never know who you're gonna meet. Um but the solitude and the the mental health hit that that takes is sometimes almost over uh unrecoverable. And it's always better to be here than to not be here.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

And that's that's kind of like where where I've struggled. Um I know Matt struggled with this too, where you you just feel like it would be better the world would be better off without you. And that's never the case. No.

SPEAKER_04 51:40

I think about um I think about certain days. I think about certain dates, certain certain instances, like you guys both spoke of, and I think about everything that's happened since then, every good experience, everything that's made me laugh, everything that's made me smile. And I sit here and go, I wouldn't have had that if I did that.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:02

I wouldn't have I wouldn't have woke up and smiled and laughed and hugged my kids or found a new love or a new life or a new perspective if I would have correct.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Yeah, that's literally we wouldn't be doing that.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

You thought it was over in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

I mean graduated nursing school, you're a you're a fucking nurse now. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Thank you. We've built this podcast now, like the the things that you can do and achieve by just accepting that hey, you know, sometimes shit sucks, but I'm gonna persevere and I'm gonna push through. Like, it's it's unimaginable what life can actually bring to you.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Um so we're we're pushing an hour now.

SPEAKER_04 52:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

It doesn't feel like it. It doesn't feel like it. It never does. Um you have your kids.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

You have an ex-husband who is now gay.

SPEAKER_04 53:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Who's also remarried. Yeah. Um you guys joint parent still, right? You co-parent?

SPEAKER_04 53:14

Yes. Um, actually, we're on the phone today discussing my daughter's sweet 16. We are going to hold it jointly in New York so that it's close for both of our families. So we have come a long way. Um it for me, it took telling my ex-husband he can't walk on me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 53:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Um and taking back my life, not allowing him to continue to make me feel like I was less than a person.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah. Um that goes for for dudes too. Like, I I know there's a ton of dudes that are in in relationships where the wife makes you feel like you're less of a person. Like, you can't let people walk on you.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Oh, women are awful. Some women No, I'm serious. Some women will find men that like them more than they like them just to make sure they have security. Like, that's that's not right either. I think I I always follow like the the treat people the way you want to be treated. I would never intentionally be harmful to somebody because I would never want somebody to do that. Talk shit every once in a while. Eh, it's all in good fun. But I would never intentionally be be harmful to somebody. That's that's awful.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yep. Well, uh I'm glad that you have your kids back. I'm glad that you guys are you're cordial, right? Like you guys talk, you mean you're still talk on the phone like how often? Daily?

SPEAKER_04 54:55

Um, probably once a week. We went out drinking for my birthday.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Yeah, so you guys are like pals still.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

It took a lot because he had hurt from me and I had hurt from him. But um, yeah, I uh now we are friendly. We have moments.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

I mean it's always a book. You do seem to like you're co-parenting quite well.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Yes. Um the co-parenting, like I said, that is a hundred percent a lot better now than it was back then. Like I said, I had no, I wasn't even on school documents to be able to pick them up. I couldn't have even picked my kids up from school.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 55:33

And now, you know, it's actually pretty pretty opposite. He can pick the kids up from school, but I'm saying I have them 99% of the time, whereas he sees them every other weekend.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

It would it hey, that's why I'm here in Kentucky. That's why I'm even here on this podcast, is because I have so who who gives them the fashion advice? Uh well, it's funny because I do give Bella fashion advice, but she takes it from her dad. But Jackson will take most of his advice from me. I have shot him, I have taught him how to shoot bow and arrow. Like we were, you know, talking to him about shaving girls, and and he will totally hate me for saying this, but uh I actually relate to him more. He went to me the other day. He goes, Mom, he goes, Do you know what a happy trail is? I said, Yeah. I said, I said, why? He goes, I have one. You want to see? I said, no.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

No.

SPEAKER_04 56:44

But I'm not sure if they we we talk about it from time to time because my daughter remembers a lot of it. Uh, I'm not saying I was a perfect wife. Um we were having a conversation earlier. I definitely lost my temper. I definitely did things I shouldn't have done, but I am glad where we are now and the fact that we were able to mature and see each other in a different life and get past the hurt. Yeah. Because once you get past the hurt, you remember why you loved each other in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Yeah. I I think it's very important. You you've if you just hold on to that, that hurt and that anger, um, it just kind of festers. It it never heals. You have to just let it go. You just have to let it go. Um everybody will be better on the other side if you just let that that pain go. Um, I think I mean I'm I'm happy for you guys. We're gonna get him on.

SPEAKER_04 57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

We're gonna get both of you back on.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

I'm sure I have uh a different side of and more stories to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Uh-oh. We cannot wait. Do we do an episode of just him with her not here and then have them back together?

SPEAKER_04 57:52

You're more than welcome to.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Let's do it. Let's do that. All right. Uh, we're at an hour. Matt, give us some words of wisdom here.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Well, I don't know if this is wisdom, but I I do have a quote for us today. It is from an unknown. It says, and just like that, I became the author of my own pain. I stayed where I felt unwanted, ignored what was hurting me. I kept pretending I was okay because I didn't know how to ask for help. Not all the damage came from others. Some of it came from the moments I abandoned myself. And that just it just really felt like that was a part of today's story, and and getting through that and getting to the other side and finding that community to the point you're here on this couch with us today and being able to talk about it, and your life is much better than it ever was before that. So I'm happy for all of it.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

And yeah, I love it. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_04 58:45

Yeah, thank you guys for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

We'll have you on again soon.

SPEAKER_04 58:48

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

All right. On that, divorced dudes out.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Divorced dudes out.