0:00

You're listening to people behind the benefits, the podcast, exploring the people, ideas and decisions, shaping the employee benefits industry. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 0:11

All right I'll kick things off by just saying, first of all, thank you for your time. Um, quick agenda, we'll do some intros for the people behind the benefits and we'll jump right into some q and a. We'll, we'll keep it brief, we'll keep it casual. We'll talk, uh, about a couple different things around hr. Benefits culture, uh, some fun topics that I know you and I have had a lot of conversations on, and then we'll, we'll close it with a, a nice call to action. That's the, the agenda. Anything you wanna add or change?

Speaker 2 0:40

No, I'm excited. Welcome the opportunity. Jordan. Thank you for your interest in putting your own time in investment into this q and a. So let's go, let's go for it. I'm, I'm excited to learn more about. What, uh, you and your peers are most interested about human resources.

Speaker 0:57

Yeah, that sounds great. Well, I'll let you kick things off. I've, I've always since day one of connecting with you back at a a, my conference, um, where I think you want a Yeti cooler. Um,

Speaker 2 1:07

I did,

Speaker 1:08

one of the things I appreciated with you is just the, the basic human connection. Um, something I feel like that's very powerful with, with you and how you treat people. So maybe just give everybody your, your background kind of where you've been. Um, I know you're A-A-C-M-U grad, so I'll spoil that one, but, uh, just give everybody background, if you don't mind.

Speaker 2 1:28

Yeah. Thank you. And, um, appreciate those kind words. Well, early on I thought I wanted to be a teacher, essentially to help people learn and grow. And as I went through college at Central Michigan University, I realized I could help people learn and grow and succeed in. Inside large organizations, thus positively impact even more people. So growing up as the son of essentially two migrant workers from Texas, my, my brothers and I were all born in Michigan. My dad took a union job here, and all that just really shaped how I think about work. I saw how important jobs pay and respect are really too. To every family and in college I learned a lot about labor relations and it really helped me see how people on different sides of the table can work together when there's trust in communication. And then over time, working in manufacturing, professional service, and now a large family owned business here at Morley Companies. Really taught me that human resources is really a critical area to help businesses not only succeed by putting people first, but having them be their best to do their best work. So there's an old saying that as the tide rises, so do all the ships.

Speaker 2:55

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 2:56

And that's all the stakeholder, stakeholders, that's employers, that's workers, that's communities, that's clients, that's customers, and that's even suppliers. So that's a little bit about. My background and how I got into hr.

Speaker 3:10

That's perfect. Yeah. And I know one of our other common roots was you're, you're from um, Holt, right?

Speaker 2 3:17

That's right. Yeah. My dad was working at Fisher Body in Lansing.

Speaker 3:22

Yep. Yep.

Speaker 2 3:22

But my brothers and I are all proud graduates of Holt High School, and one of the things that my parents stressed was education. And so my mom graduated with her high school degree. My dad did not.

Speaker 3:37

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 3:38

But he ended up getting his GED while he was, um, working there in the shop. And I asked him like, Hey, why, why'd you do that? Are you getting a promotion? He said, no. I said, um, it's gonna help you with your career path. He said, no. It just felt like I've been stressing education so much. If I didn't take advantage of an opportunity, I'd feel like a feel like a hypocrite. And so that that impresses upon you when you're. 10, 11, 12 years old.

Speaker 4:06

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I think that's great on the backgrounds. I think we can jump into a couple of the questions I had prepared. Um, one of the things that, the last time we spoke, Ricardo, you, you talked about HR as really both a people department and a business department. Um, and I really liked your take on that. So I guess, tell me about like how that mind shift or mindset shift happened and your thoughts around that.

Speaker 2 4:34

Oh, great question. That shift really happened early on in my career. When I went from Michigan Sugar to Raymond, Raymond was my first opportunity to be a manager. So I came as the human resource manager and you're invited to be at the table for strategic sessions, and that's where I learned that associate satisfaction leads to client satisfaction, which leads to profitability. So I like to say that we are in the employment business.

Speaker 5:01

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 5:02

Not the unemployment business.

Speaker 5:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:03

So it starts with good intentions and then understanding that there are real cost risks and that there's outcomes involved. So I learned a, I learned that if, if human resources wants to help people long term. We have to understand how the business makes money, how it controls cost, how it serves customers, and when HR is able to connect people decisions to business results

Speaker 5:28

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 5:28

Leaders just listens and everyone be, everyone benefits.

Speaker 5:32

That makes complete sense to me. It's, it's funny, my wife has been in recruiting, uh, ever since we've been together and recruiting's just one of the pieces, right? There's so much that HR does that. People don't realize. Um, and one other thing, I'm gonna go off script a little bit from what I sent you before, but one of the things I feel like I see a ton out there on LinkedIn with the different people, leaders in HR is where a lot of companies, the HR team still doesn't have a seat at the executive table. So I guess I just thought of this on the fly, but what do you think about that and how, how would you encourage other HR leaders or people to talk about getting that seat at the executive table and, and really getting their voice heard?

Speaker 2 6:13

Well, when I first started here at Morley, the shareholders gave me a lot of books to read, which, which was great. Usually it's the other way around.

Speaker 6:21

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 6:21

And one of the books they gave me was The Culture Solution. And in it is a section that talks about, uh, everything's really your fault. And so obviously there's two to tango, but that's where I would start that if we, if everything's our fault, what can I do? I have, I have somewhat of a control to all of this. And so in 19, I'm gonna say 19 99, 19 98, I was attending a local human resources chapter, and Ann Schulte had mentioned, Hey, how many people here have a company that says that people are, its most important asset? Everybody's hand. Mm-hmm. Went up and she said, well, how many people have their highest level HR department reporting to the CEO? And not a lot of hands went up. Mm-hmm. And so she said, you know, that should be an indicator where if people are the most important asset, and if the CEO is the most important position, then shouldn't HR report to the CEO

Speaker 7:21

o. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 7:22

That was a great. So I was reporting to the chief financial officer at that time. It was about two years into my career, and I went to him and Dennis Bo now even to this day, is a great mentor. And he said, you know what? I think that makes a lot of sense. And he actually escorted me right there in then. And we had a conversation with the CEO. That position ended up reporting to the CEO.

Speaker 7:49

So it's, it's almost as if a, a simple conversation, fixed it, explaining why. Right.

Speaker 2 7:54

That's correct. And what's the worst that can happen when we ask questions, right? They say, no, but you learn, and at least you make your intentions. Your intentions now. Then you ask, what does it take to get, to get there?

Speaker 8:04

Yep. A seat at the table. I, I feel like I see that all over LinkedIn. I don't know if you do.

Speaker 2 8:09

Oh. I just know that sometimes we sit around sometimes and rightfully so, like, how, why, why not this, why aren't they inviting me? This? And, and I have asked in the past, Ricardo, and sometimes if you want it bad enough, you're gonna find a way.

Speaker 8:27

Yep.

Speaker 2 8:27

It's just, it's just like air, right? We need it to breathe. The fish needs the water. We're just gonna find a way to make it happen. And if it doesn't, and those are things that you really strive for, then it might. Take that opportunity, that might be the opportunity that you're looking for to say, you know, what are my values matching up with this corporate values? 'cause sometimes they don't.

Speaker 8:47

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And sometimes it's time to move on. Right,

Speaker 2 8:51

exactly.

Speaker 8:52

Yep. Cool. Well, one other question I was thinking about on that, uh, on that thought track was you mentioned people are your most important asset and it, it always brings me back, 'cause Ricardo, you know, I've spent my entire career in. More of the benefit side and technology side of, of human resources. Um, but it makes me think of, you know, the, the CFO talk track you just said than you used to report to the CFO and benefits. And it got my mind going about the number one or number two line item for most employers is typically their benefits. So I have a couple questions. I I, I bring it up 'cause I don't wanna forget it. Okay. Um, I have a couple questions on that just to get your thoughts on, but, um, I, I know it's been a, a crazy changing landscape from. All sorts of benefits over the last five to 10 years. Um, but I wanted to mention it as a, a teaser. So on the, on the other note though, somewhat of cost management, one of the questions I, I talked to you a little bit about was really within hr, how do you think about cost management? Especially when most leaders sometimes don't think of HR as a cost center, that they can actually optimize.

Speaker 2 9:59

It's a, it's a very good question, and I would agree with you that human resources controls more cost than what many people realize.

Speaker 10:06

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 10:07

I mean, you just take payroll and wages. Payroll,

10:09

yep.

Speaker 2 10:09

That's multi-million dollars, right? There. Benefits like you, like you state the claims multimillion dollars, but there's turnover.

Speaker 10:17

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 10:18

There's also the opportunity costs with empty roles that really sit, sit, empty. Add the recruiting costs. There's also training and efficiencies. I mean, all of that adds up pretty quickly.

Speaker 10:31

Adds up very quickly. Yes.

Speaker 2 10:33

And cost management just doesn't mean cutting expenses. It means asking smart questions. That's why you need a good benefit broker. And are we spending money in the right places? Are programs working? Are we preventing costly problems like turnover and burnout? Are we getting the right return on investment? And are we getting it fast enough? So like you, I think with any business, when HR invests wisely in people and systems, they can often save the company money o you know, over time.

Speaker 11:02

Absolutely. And do you all, have you thought about how. How you talk about that as a company, because I've seen a lot of different companies who, who talk about that amongst their employees, whether they're a small mid-size employer of a couple hundred all the way up to thousands, um, really where they get their buy-in from their people. That these things that we're offering you cost money. We, we offer them to you. 'cause we want a great workplace. But I also feel like getting buy-in from the, from the actual employees and the other stakeholders is important. Would you agree?

Speaker 2 11:32

Uh, a hundred percent. A lot of it comes to having a shared understanding mm-hmm. And shared goals. Right. From a benefit perspective, we want the best benefits at the most affordable cost. And the way to do that is to work together to find the right network to make sure that we're asking the right questions before we jump at the, you know, next best thing or the shiny thing that grabs our attention.

Speaker 11:59

Yep.

Speaker 2 12:00

Uh. Her long time ago where sometimes we feel as workers that the, uh, insurance card is like a credit card and it's not. There's people who have to pay for that and

Speaker 12:13

Yeah,

Speaker 2 12:13

surprisingly so we as workers are a part of that. We're part of the solution.

Speaker 12:17

Yep.

Speaker 2 12:17

As well as part of the cost.

Speaker 12:19

I've never heard the credit card analogy. That's a good one. And people don't realize that someone else is paying for it. Yeah, that's a very good point. And. A lot of times it turns out that they're the ones paying for it when their premiums keep going up, right?

Speaker 2 12:31

That's exactly right.

Speaker 12:32

Yep.

Speaker 2 12:32

So like I said, we all have a shared, once there's a shared understanding and we have a shared vision, now it's how do we go from here to here?

Speaker 12:42

Makes sense. So I, I guess on that note of culture, Ricardo, what do you think is the one thing that HR leaders may get wrong when it comes to building or maintaining culture? And then I, I guess what's one thing that you've seen really, really work from a culture perspective?

Speaker 2 12:59

Well, uh, culture's not easy, and I'm not perfect, but it's important to have a culture. I think it starts with clarity and said another way, Stephen Covey would say, begin with the end in mind. Uh, you know, what are the core issues that we're trying to solve? What does success look like? And each group matters, and so none can really be ignored. Business partners need HR to help them execute strategies. Associates need a sense of belonging and feel valued care and growth, and even the HR team. That needs support, development, and even clear direction. So when HR is, is aligned, it can serve all the other groups. And I try to make decisions that are fair, try to explain the why and think long term. And as you know, when it comes to culture, it shows up in everything. It shows up in how we think and how we operate and in our systems. So it's in those clear expectations. Policies, good communications and leaders who model the right behavior. Culture isn't what we say, it's what we reward and allow.

Speaker 14:13

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 14:13

It's the worst things that we allow. It's also the best things mm-hmm. That we reward. So it's everything in between.

Speaker 14:21

I love that answer. That makes perfect sense. I was gonna ask you another question kind of going off the operational side, but I, I feel like you mostly answered it, you, you said, or kind of like, not just values on a wall, but actually what, what you do versus say, right. I, I really like that take.

Speaker 2 14:38

Yeah. Uh, I think another thing is to always. I have a commitment to continuous improvement.

Speaker 14:45

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 14:46

Uh, Chuck Cote, uh, I can't remember who he quote quoted, but way back when he said, when you're green, you grow. And when you're, when you're ripe, you rock. So always be green, always be

Speaker 14:58

Yep.

Speaker 2 14:58

Growing. And for all you Spartan fans, and we would, we would always shout, go green. Yep. In all seriousness. Many leaders think culture is a program or a message and it's not. Culture is built through consistent actions over time, and if systems and leadership behavior doesn't match the values people are gonna notice and that's when trust begins to erode.

Speaker 15:23

Yep.

Speaker 2 15:24

Um, in the service industry, whether it's restaurants or hotels, or even what we're doing in the business contact center. There's customer service, right? Those, that's the table stakes.

Speaker 15:39

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 15:39

How can I help you? What's your problem that I can help solve? That helps. But those are more task related. When you're doing it consistently, time and time again, that's how hospitality. Has created and that's how culture is created.

Speaker 15:55

I love that. That's a good take. Might have to cut that one and, and snip that one. Ricardo. That's a good one. Um, we got a little bit of time left. I, I got two more questions selfishly around benefits. Um, and, you know, our, you know, our, our, our company and what we do, and I think our audience is really around a lot of the different benefits brokers and insurance related industry. I guess for benefits, looking at February 24th, 2026, where we're at, which is wild, it's almost March. Um, when it comes to 2020 six's goals, at what point do you all at Morley start to really identify, what are we gonna try to change? What are we gonna try to add when it comes to your, your total compensation and benefits for your employees?

Speaker 2 16:41

Uh, that's a great question. Uh, we are actually, have been thinking about that for quite a while. We have a multi-phase approach and we're in the second phase. It's taken a few years. Uh, phase one was actually to move from one broker to another.

Speaker 17:00

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 17:00

With minimal disruption. There was gonna be some disruption that was gonna happen, but we did that and we were able to keep, uh, cost the same.

Speaker 17:09

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 17:11

This second phase is now to, uh, take the fiscal year of enrollment and put it into it. Calendar year, and we have two plans for in-state and outta state.

Speaker 17:22

Yep.

Speaker 2 17:22

And so we've done that successfully with Michigan. And now we're gonna do that with out of state again, with minimal disruption. And then the future stages, like you've mentioned, HR leaders are looking to balance rising costs.

Speaker 17:36

Yep.

Speaker 2 17:37

Changing regulations, the needs of our workers, the business pressure, and it's all at the same time. And there are just some things that are really. Skyrocketing.

Speaker 17:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:48

Right now. So I think first of all, you, I, I heavily believe an HR partner needs a good business partner.

Speaker 17:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 17:59

A subject matter expert benefit, and consultants, people who are gonna listen, people will then understand, uh, what options and explain those options clearly. You and, and Jordan and your team and your industry, you understand the bigger picture. But what we as HR people don't need is more noise. Mm-hmm. We need practical solutions and trusted guidance, and we don't know what we don't know.

Speaker 18:25

Right.

Speaker 2 18:26

But you combine both, uh, people's knowledge and experience and some great things can happen together by communicating and collaborating together.

Speaker 18:37

I think you just said something that I wanna highlight. We don't need noise. We don't need more noise. We don't need shiny objects. We need practical solutions. That's, I feel like we could just end, end the recording here. That's, that's a great takeaway. 'cause I, that's the thing with our industry, and especially on my side, what I see with, with all the point solutions out there and the, the new private equity backed companies coming in to, to, you know, reduce your drug spend for this one drug or. That technology to do that. Um, there's a lot of noise. Um, a lot of good solutions, but you need practical, you need practical solutions first. You need something that can actually work and scale for your team.

Speaker 2 19:17

I agree. And, and we're doing something that we haven't done since I've been here, and that's about seven years. And that's actually engaging our associates who do use the benefits. Mm-hmm. And those that don't, and to find out why they're not using the benefits. But even those that are. There's some things that they're not using and let's find out, find out why. Yeah. It could be even as simple as things as, uh, transportation. They may not have the transportation to get to the services that they desperately need, even in a remote and hybrid environment.

Speaker 19:52

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 19:53

Telehealth and things of that nature. We're trying to really have an understanding of what's, of what's going on and what matters most.

Speaker 20:00

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 20:01

Not only to the business, but also to. To the people. So I believe it starts with clear goals. Let's align it to a strategy and let's break these big priorities into small, manageable steps. And we can avoid reacting to everything.

Speaker 20:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:16

And instead lead people with some purpose.

Speaker 20:19

That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Well, based on time, I think we've got time for, for one final, I would call it a, a call to action or a, a final ending question. So. As far as our audience that we've talked about, what advice would you give or what's one thing you wish more people in the benefits and and broker community that I come from really just understood about HR leaders and what you're actually dealing with right now? I know, I know this video and this recording is a lot of it, but I guess how would you break it down in a nutshell if you could?

Speaker 2 20:53

Well, I think it could go back to even one of the earlier questions you asked about HR leaders trying to get a seat at the table.

Speaker 20:59

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 20:59

I think that also goes with, uh, benefit providers trying to get a seat at, uh, the HR table. And that's really to, you know, learn the business, understand how money is made, where are, how, where do the risk exist

Speaker 21:15

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 21:15

And what do leaders care about. And so it's always seek first to understand. Before being sought to be understood. That's another Stephen Covey principle.

Speaker 21:25

I love that.

Speaker 2 21:25

And then from there, you can just bring solutions. You can identify the problems, but you can bring the solutions to each of those problems and then use the data, speak clearly, follow through, and that's how trust is built. And that's how I can see not only benefit partners, but also hr. People delivering results that are consistent.

Speaker 21:44

Absolutely. And I think this, hopefully this message goes much beyond just the benefits community and, and HR leaders too, because I think there's a lot people can learn from you too, Ricardo, and your, uh, experiences and, and how you go about the HR function. So I, I appreciate you sharing it with me.

Speaker 2 22:00

Well, it's been totally my pleasure and I do hope, yeah, that if someone has more questions or would like some more insight that. You can make my contact information available.

Speaker 22:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:13

You know, we don't, we don't get here by ourselves. And you know, that Jordan, it really takes, um, as Hillary Clinton would say, it takes a village. And so that's not only with raising kids and people, it's also developing HR leaders.

Speaker 22:26

Absolutely. And building the culture and all the other things that go with it. Awesome. Well, I think that rounds it out. Uh, thank you again for your time, Ricardo. It's always a pleasure when we talk, I always learn something new, so thank you. And for our audience, uh, listening, I'm sure they'll thank you for, for the insightful knowledge,

Speaker 2 22:45

Jordan. Thank you. And to the CMU Community Fire Up chips.

Speaker 22:49

Couldn't agree more. Have a good one.

Speaker 2 22:51

Alright, thanks.