0:00

You're listening to People Behind the Benefits, the podcast exploring the people, ideas, and decisions shaping the employee benefits industry. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 0:11

I just wanted to kick things off by saying thanks for joining Christine, the people behind the Benefits podcast here at Benefit Flow. I'm the host Jordan Kozlowski. And with me, I am, I'm joined with Christine we'll, we'll start with some brief intros. The people would love to hear from you. Christine, your, your background, uh, a little bit more about your role and, and the company you work for.

Speaker 2 0:32

Sure. So currently I am with Cyber Max, which is a cybersecurity provider. Uh, we're based, uh, we have a headquarters location in Maryland, but quite frankly, we are worldwide. Um, we have about 70% of our employees. Um, remote in four different countries. Um, and that's spread over really less than 200 employees. Therefore, you can imagine we're, we're very widespread. We don't have a lot of face-to-face contact, and that alone, we could do a whole podcast on just that, probably

Speaker 1:06

true. That's true. Well, appreciate you joining. Um, I know that the term, you know, director of hr, manager of hr, VP of hr whatever, whatever you wanna current, uh, coin the term. Tell me more about your role specifically at Cyber Max and, uh, specifically into hr.

Speaker 2 1:25

So when I joined, um, just a, a couple of months after the new CEO had joined, and so we've, we've remained, um, as a team, as part of the executive group, um, at Cyber Max. Um, you know, we really set out to put together an organization, um, that would, you know, just surpass the industry norm in cybersecurity and to do so with. Um, a really strong culture. Um, and, and that was most important. So when we picked my title together, we decided chief people officer made the most sense, um, and represented what we wanted our HR operations to look like.

Speaker 2:06

Awesome. I love it. I feel like I see the, the term chief people officer out there a lot more. One of the, one of the other, uh, episodes that we recorded earlier in the month, Christine, I was talking to a VP of HR and we were talking about just how HR needs a seat at the executive table. So I think that's a really important thing. I see it all over LinkedIn. I don't know if you see the same.

Speaker 2 2:30

I do, um, I think, I think this title, um, is much more representative of what organizations really need.

Speaker 2:38

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 2:38

Um, out of their, their HR operations group, um, whether they, you know, decide to, to go with that name or be more like, you know, a chief HR officer. Um, but that executive seat is, is really, really critical. And at a company like ours, which, um, a good percentage of our growth is through acquisition. You can't do acquisitions without people being at the table.

Speaker 3:02

That's true. I I love that. That might be a, a highlight moment right there. Um, it's important too, because when you think about the line items and the cost center that. HR is you, you're controlling the number one and number two, cost of the company typically with payroll and, and benefits, right?

Speaker 2 3:21

Yeah. In our organization alone, right? Cybersecurity of course is people driven. Um, and so we know 80% of our cost structure is baked into our people. We say that out loud to them on a regular basis. We remind them, right, this is why we're doing these things to take care of you because you are 80% of our cost basis.

Speaker 3:41

I love it. I love it. Makes sense. All right, well, let's dive into a couple of the questions that we prepared together. Uh, one of 'em I sent over to you. This one really sparked in my mind when we, we chatted briefly before this, it was the Noah's arc moment that you described. So when you joined, you described the department, uh, as kind of like the Noah's arc of the company having two of everything. And you mentioned growing by acquisition. So talk to me about just like the beginning of, of how you started to fix things as duplicates and where you started.

Speaker 2 4:13

Yeah, so when I joined the company, there was two companies that had come together to be Cyber Max under private equity ownership. And so they were the two sides of Noah's arc. There was a CFO acting as hr. On one side there was an HR director acting as HR on the other side, and they, um, both. Paid, um, employees and did benefits through PEOs. So two separate PEOs, two very different onboarding experiences, two different paychecks, luckily same payroll schedule, but Right. Just, just a lot of everything. Two different benefit, you know, options, um, uh, depending on which company you got hired into that determined, you know, where you landed. Um, so. I mean, the, the important part of your question, right, is how do you, how do you run two things, two sides of the ship, side by side? And we had to do that for a while. And, and, you know, luckily when I came in, there were two very knowledgeable people who were able to walk me through that. But the key decision that I made early on was ownership.

Speaker 5:19

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 5:19

Right? And, and so each person may have been very tied to the way that they did things before. The key decision was mine. And, and these items are owner, they're owned by me. Um, and, and I'm gonna decide what we wanna be working with the rest of the executive team. And that's exactly how we started it. So before we talked about in-house or PEO, you know, systems or you know, biweekly payroll or bimonthly payroll, or before we talked about any of those things, it really comes down to ownership.

Speaker 5:51

I love that. That makes sense. And then I, I, I guess that bleeds into the next question pretty, pretty well when it comes to the integration playbook that you talked about and, you know, the acquisitions when it comes to adding more on, just from an admin perspective, uh, what does that look like and what, what's one of the things you figured out early with, with that?

Speaker 2 6:11

Yeah, so our decision from there was to bring everything in-house. It was a cost effective decision. Um, and so we picked a system, um, and so we were able to pick and choose the best of each of the individual worlds. Mm-hmm. The best onboarding approach, um, right. The best benefits package and, and really bring that to an in-house, um, system. As, as we did each of those steps, we started documenting right. This is really important for integration. Um, it's really important that we note that these differences may occur. Um, and then that's really where we started to talk about being transparent and authentic in our culture and really having sit downs with, um, employees and sending ex, you know, lengthy FAQs to help them understand the changes that were coming that then. Created our baseline for the next acquisition and then the acquisition after that. Um, if, if we looked at Cyber Max today, we, we've brought five companies together in a period of three years, um, which is, that's

Speaker 7:14

a lot

Speaker 2 7:15

virtually unheard of. That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 7:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:17

Um, and so having that. That first go at let's correct Noah's arc, let's decide who we wanna be and stick to it.

Speaker 7:26

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 7:26

That makes the story easier each, each integration that we have to do each new company. 'cause you're coming into this organization and this is who we are and we own that and we hope that you wanna be a part of it.

Speaker 7:39

Yeah. That, that's powerful. It, it leads into the next question that we talked about with just culture, but. I'm gonna go off script a little bit because you brought up something, or at least something spurred in my head to ask you, and I'm curious to get your thoughts. So you mentioned the PEO, you mentioned the two sides of, of the benefits you think about who we're trying to talk to and who's our audience today with, with different brokers, with different consultants out, working with employers, what's the number one piece of advice that you would give them? If someone's coming out of a PEO and they're, they're just coming into a whole bunch of new decisions they have to make, like what would, what would you suggest, or what would you say for that arrangement?

Speaker 2 8:21

One, take your time, um, and, and two, be very aware of your data, um, coming out of a PEO from a benefit standpoint. Definitely payroll standpoint, but usually you already have that data. But from a benefit standpoint and a compliance standpoint, understand where your data lives, understand where your compliance documents live. I, I still, two months ago, we still went back to one of those original PEOs. 'cause we, there were two I nines that we realized we did not have that came up audit. So there's so many little nuances that you often will forget about.

Speaker 8:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 8:59

As you're, as, you have so many moving parts, so take your time and then have your inventory of your data and your compliance, um, you know, regulated, uh, documents, have that ready.

Speaker 9:12

That's, I, I like that, that's a good piece of advice. I also think it's interesting how much the landscape has changed from the side or the size of employers, excuse me, who can come out of PEOs, because I think. For a, a smaller organization, a PEO is a great solution, especially for like a founding team who doesn't really have time for all the administrative burden. But I've heard of companies that are level funding and self-funding employers all the way down to five employees. So, you know, considering what you just said, coming out of a PEO, there's a lot of things you need to be aware of, right?

Speaker 2 9:44

Yeah. Yeah. And at that time, our size was just below a hundred. Um, and so there were, there were financial benefits to coming outta a PEO.

Speaker 9:52

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 9:53

Um, benefits we were losing because we had the opportunity to. To get a benefit package specifically for our employees and where they were, and it saved the company about $80,000 in that year. Um, that, that, that decision doesn't necessarily parlay to every business and every industry depending on size. So when you're investigating, um, whether or not it's the right time for you to be in or out of a PEO mm-hmm. That's just, you know, one of the big considerations.

Speaker 10:20

Yeah. That makes sense. And we, we talk to a lot of consultants all the time who are targeting clients in PEOs to help them with that transition and say, Hey, we know the, we know the roadmap, we know the strategies. Here's the cost savings that you can achieve. So that, that's a big strategy that we're hearing today.

Speaker 2 10:36

Yeah. Yeah. I, it's not easy. So when someone can specialize in it and can hold your hand through it, um, if you have the opportunity to, to have that relationship with another organization, I recommend it.

Speaker 10:48

Love it. Love it. That's, that's powerful. Okay. Shifting into culture, I feel like in all of these conversations I've had, Christine culture has been a. Just the mainstay of the conversation, which, you know, makes sense when we're talking to HR and chief people officers. Um, one of the things you mentioned a little bit ago was your culture is really change. Ready? How, so how would you describe the culture when it comes to change and, you know, are, are you all just living in a lot of change every day or, or what, what's that look like today?

Speaker 2 11:21

Yeah. Um. It's not necessarily everyday change. Um, but bringing five organizations together in three years does bring in a day-to-day basis for our average employee, does bring change on a fairly regular basis. Usually at least quarterly you're experiencing some large shift, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and so it is really important to us that we recognize that change readiness is, is a key part of our culture. And there's a reason I'm not Chief Culture Officer, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm Chief People Officer because we believe very strongly in this organization that culture does not stem from one person at the top. It's not me and it's not the CEO. And so we build our leader development conversations and training programs around. Um, culture, um, uh, consistency, um, and, and, you know, getting them ready to ensure that the culture that people are experiencing with them matches what we are saying publicly, right? That, that that's the culture that we're trying to build. Um, it, it's very hard to be change averse here. Um, you know, the next thing you know, your department has grown overnight and it's doubled in size. And, and you've got to meet new people who might live in other time zones, make even live in other countries. Um, and you've gotta figure out how to work with them.

Speaker 12:44

I love it. You, you put it Well, I culture is not you, you're not Chief culture officer and it's not your CEOI. That to me is gonna stick with me the rest of the, the, the conversation. So that, that was a great point. I love that.

Speaker 2 12:56

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Speaker 12:58

I was just talking to another, uh, a financial officer and we were talking about just change management in general. So I feel like these are all, all common themes that keep coming up and, you know, with, with the ever-changing landscape now with ai. You know, it's interesting how people are talking about it, where it can be such a buzzword, but it can also be so powerful where if you change and adapt to it, um, it, it can only help you. Right?

Speaker 2 13:25

Yeah. That's, you're exactly right. And that's true for me and my department personally, like

Speaker 13:31

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 13:32

You know, we're rethinking how we're doing some things and we're, we're testing out some of our, um, AI options out there to, um, generate, you know. Better employee communications, um, you know, more consistency in how we do some things, um, and, and communicate to our employee base, but also from a cybersecurity standpoint, AI is both a friend and a foe mm-hmm. To us. And so we're constantly looking at and rethinking our AI policy because. The bad guys in the cyber world, right? The people who are running these scams that we all have to keep our eyes out for. They're using AI

Speaker 14:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:13

Every day. And they're getting better because they're using ai. And so that forces all of us to be thinking about it too. It's a huge, huge part of this world. Um, it's exciting. Um, also a little scary sometimes.

Speaker 14:25

No doubt. No doubt. No. And, and that's why we need companies like Cyber Max, right? 'cause we. We need the good guys fighting off the bad guys.

Speaker 2 14:33

We do. We do. And having that noble mission, right, like knowing that you're coming into work every day because you might be saving a company from having their worst day. Um, that's an important part of who we are. And so when we stay to people, when you work here, you gotta be change ready, but here's why, right? The landscape changes before we ever even know it, and certainly before our clients. Know it. And so we have to be ready for that change and we have to be ready to answer.

Speaker 15:02

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 15:03

And then that naturally translates into, we do it for our clients now we need to do it for ourselves internally.

Speaker 15:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:10

Um, and so we're really able to capitalize on a change ready industry to apply that to our own cultural organization, our own organization's culture.

Speaker 15:19

I love it. That makes sense. Well, and even, and how, remind me how long you've been at Cyber Max, Christine. How long has it been now

Speaker 2 15:25

it's three years.

Speaker 15:26

Three years. So even think about the AI landscape, you know, back in 2023 compared to today. It's like instrumentally different.

Speaker 2 15:34

We weren't, we weren't even talking about it. I think I, I think I developed our first AI policy in 2024.

Speaker 15:41

Okay.

Speaker 2 15:41

Um, so in 2023, it wasn't on my radar screen at all. No. Um, we sort of created this policy, didn't really know if anyone was even using ai and honestly, in the last year. In 2025 and so far this year, it's all that we can talk about.

Speaker 15:58

Mm-hmm. I, I don't think you're alone either. And given your industry, you know, given manufacturing, whatever it may be, people have to adapt to it in, in the best ways.

Speaker 2 16:09

Absolutely. Absolutely. Gotta gotta keep our ethics grounded there.

Speaker 16:13

True. Very true. Well, shifting gears a little bit into. What I would say is kind of like my, my why of why I like this industry is to help different employers around increases, around technologies, around ideas. And that's originally how you and I met was when I worked for Health Joy and you were implementing that amazing technology at the time. Um, the, the, where I'm going with this is the, the increase you said you got as a company in 2025 going into 2026. Talk to me a little bit about that because I know. I know for most of the people that might be listening, you know, I've heard employers getting anywhere from 10 to 50 to 60% increases and a lot of people didn't know what to do and a lot of people were scrambling. So, ta talk me through when you all got that, how you leaned on your consultant, what you did. Just talk, talk me through it.

Speaker 2 17:03

Yeah, yeah. Um, we, we all live that nightmare. Um, and I, I feel for so many of those companies. We were no different. Um, you know, coming out of the PEO we had saved all that money as I mm-hmm. As I mentioned earlier. So we were feeling really good about that. And 2024, going into 2025, we didn't really have a huge increase. The company absorbed it, it was like 4%. So the challenge of, of this year coming into 2026, our increase was over 30% in medical and almost 30%, I think it was 29% in our dental and vision. And we were just like, what do we, what do we do with this? And in our space, in the tech space, we sort of used the benchmark of companies pay about 80% of the overall, um, premium. And you know, we looked at, at that cost increase and we were like, there's just no way. Right. And certainly our broker knew it was coming. They had been giving me warnings and heads up and we. We really did talk about what our plan of action was going to be. Now it ended up happening maybe in a little different order. Um, but it was the end result that, you know, was the big, the big plus because they just, just like I was, they were fully invested in where I wanted to go and, and they got really creative and they, and they forced, um, our, our providers to be really creative.

Speaker 18:30

That's great. Well, and that's why you have to lean on those, those types of relationships too, right? One, you don't have the time. And two, that's why you hire them for the expertise.

Speaker 2 18:38

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I needed that expertise, um, this year and they really made me look like a hero. Um, in my opinion, probably maybe not the employees 'cause they still did have an increase. Um, but, but not nearly as large as it could have been. And we spent a lot of time educating them on that.

Speaker 18:54

That's great. One question you made me just think of, and I'm gonna go off script a little bit again. Um, you talked about benchmarking. So as an organization, from, from your perspective, maybe when it comes to compensation benefits, all the above, how do you look at benchmarking and I guess where do you get your data from?

Speaker 2 19:14

Yeah, so in that particular case, um, that was data that they pull from their greater pool. Okay. Um, of, you know. Companies our size, so the number of employees that we have, and in this case we're just talking about our US employees.

Speaker 19:27

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 19:28

So, you know, that was maybe, um, coming into this year, maybe 150, um, US employees, tech space, um, and you know, what's out there in regards to benefits. I probably could get you the actual sources that they use from, from the data that they sent me, but I asked them for that benchmark data. What do companies in MySpace do? Mm-hmm. Um, what do they pay? And um, and we've seen that 80% number be real in the tech space for quite some time, especially for small enterprises like us.

Speaker 20:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:01

Um, and, and so that's, that's been a day one, um, since I joined the organization. That's been something that we've been trying to do.

Speaker 20:08

Awesome. And would that be, would that be mostly because of just retaining and hiring talent? Is that the big reason why?

Speaker 2 20:16

It's absolutely the big reason why when you're a small company, you can't afford the big benefits, right? Mm-hmm. And what's always interesting to me is when I hear one of our employees say. My spouse works for a very large organization. I mentioned our headquarters in Maryland. We have a lot of employees that actually even have government jobs or government adjacent jobs. Yep. And they still are finding that our benefits are either as competitive or in some cases even a little bit better. That makes me feel really good. Heck yeah. You know, and when, when they're like, Hey, I can get really good, good coverage at an affordable rate. Um, and that is really important for retention.

Speaker 20:55

That's awesome. And you don't always hear that either. You hear about, you know, a, a spouse relationship where someone works for a startup of, you know, a, a couple hundred employees. They might have okay benefits, but then their spouse is either part of, uh, they're a teacher, they work for the government, and their benefits are next to none. So I think that speaks volumes for sure.

Speaker 2 21:14

Yeah. Yeah. We're, we've been very glad to get that feedback and, um, I think we're at. About 88% of our employees are in our benefits of our US employees. So, um, so they like them, they're choosing them, um, and, and we're working together, um, with our broker to make it the best possible package that we can.

Speaker 21:34

I love it. And leading into the next question, I think this is perfect. I think we've got time for maybe two more. So I'm gonna pick my favorite ones left. Um, the total compensation statement, we talked about this and I, I think it's important with transparency. And I, I was talking to someone earlier today about this, where employees really don't know the true cost of, of health insurance. They know they've got a small portion of it. They don't know how small or large that portion really is. Um, so one of the things that stuck with me from our conversation was how you talked about the total comp statement. So can can you go into that and how you view transparency?

Speaker 2 22:11

Yeah. So I think when we talked about culture earlier, it was one of the things that I said, we decided early on, right? That this is gonna be a transparent culture. When change is occurring, we're going to be upfront, we're going to share it, and we're gonna tell the why. Mm-hmm. And so we practice that in all of our business decisions. And so this, this made complete sense to do as part of our benefit strategy. So, and, and it was, it was really twofold. So I'll give you kind of answer 'cause we sort of talked about both of these. One is initially when we were talking about, hey, there is an increase in our benefits for 2026. Mm-hmm. By the way, it came down to 12%. From from 33. Right?

Speaker 22:53

Lot, lot more palatable.

Speaker 2 22:54

Lot more palatable. So there is this 12% increase. We're gonna continue to commit to the 80%, um, average. But instead of doing, you know, the standard I brought, you, brought the broker in. Mm-hmm. Do the standard open enrollment. You know, these plans, everybody, we're not, we're not changing the plans, but we made them richer. So we're gonna talk about that and we're gonna be super transparent with you about what it is that the company pays. So we did that in November. We got. We got some of the results that we were hoping for, right? Which is getting people off of our more most expensive plan and getting them to some of our high deductible plans.

Speaker 23:33

Yep.

Speaker 2 23:33

We were successful there and then we followed that in January at the end of the year with a full look at 2025 total comp. Luckily our system produces those very easily, thankfully. Um, 'cause I've done them manually in the past, um, at other companies. Um, but, you know, being able to show. This is your salary, but when we add in the bonus that we paid you in 2025, when we add in what the employer cost of benefits is, remember again, it's 80%.

Speaker 24:02

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 24:03

Um, and, and you look at the taxes, right? Like, let's look at what it, what it's, you know, what the number really looks like for the year 2025. Um, and I know I, I'm guess I'm gonna guess and so I'll just share it. You're gonna ask me what was the reaction? Um, and I would, I would call the reaction a quiet guess. Um, it wasn't loud. It wasn't Oh my God. But it was. Okay.

Speaker 24:31

But like a realization,

Speaker 2 24:32

right? That's right. This is an interesting look that I haven't had before.

Speaker 24:36

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 24:37

And like I would, I honestly feel very confident that people understand that now, where if you went up to one of our employees on the street and said. You know what? What's, tell me one thing about Cyber Max and the benefits plan. I guarantee you most of them can tell you that company pays at least 80% of the premium.

Speaker 24:54

Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 24:55

We've said that so much. There's no way they don't know that.

Speaker 24:58

That's great. And I think it's an important aspect that people need to know because if they're not utilizing health insurance correctly, I mean, I've been on, I've been on this side of benefits long enough to know when enough people don't utilize it correctly, whether or not it's a high claimant. Right. That results in increased premiums for everybody. So I think being diligent with the health plan and making sure that you're a, a smart consumer. I mean, the term consumerism has been around in healthcare for, what, six years now? Uh, maybe more. And people didn't really know what that meant. I think what you're doing with the total transparency and the compensation statements, that's how you get to that consumerism.

Speaker 2 25:36

I, I agree. Um, when, you know, we did scenarios and we talked about, um, you know, what you get in A PPO. Mm-hmm. And if you compare that to, I mean, we have a, a $2,000, um, high deductible plan. When we did premium to premium expense to expense plus employer contribution to the HSA, and we were, we were able to show them how they got ahead. We had immediate 10% move movement from PPO to an h to a one of our high deductible plans. That's great. 10% of employees did it.

Speaker 26:11

I'm a big fan of an HSA when it's done in the right way, I'm not when it's just a massive deductible and people don't understand it.

Speaker 2 26:17

Agreed. Um, and, and this one, and, and this is again where the broker just. Did their homework and, and went, they hit it out of the park with this one because not only did we keep the $2,000 deductible plan that we had

Speaker 26:30

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 26:31

But we got an agreement to make it richer. So once the deductibles met, we have 100% coverage.

Speaker 26:37

That's great. That's great. Well, now you brought up, I think maybe one of the last questions, uh, as far as a broker relationship goes, you know, a lot of our audience is going to be centered around that consultant and broker who is maybe trying to go win new business or just retain its own clients. So talk to me about that relationship of how you view it from a, a true partnership perspective and how they've helped you with all these things we've talked about.

Speaker 2 27:01

Yeah. Um, I, I, I've worked with a lot of different brokers, um, and, and I think. Part of the reason my relationship, am I allowed to say their name? Can I give them props?

Speaker 27:13

Totally up to you.

Speaker 2 27:14

Uh, so part of the reason I work so well with Oswald Companies is my own education, right? Like. I now can look back and see what I didn't ask for in the broker relationship. Yeah. I didn't know what I didn't know. This broker understands that there might be things I don't know. Mm-hmm. And they are proactive at, at providing that to me. Um, and so I don't just meet in the past where I met with them maybe one, maybe twice a year. Like we did a strategy meeting in July and then we did the renewal meeting in October.

Speaker 27:45

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 27:46

I literally am emailing. My contact at my broker on a weekly basis.

Speaker 27:53

Okay.

Speaker 2 27:54

I, I'm, I'm forwarding emails that I get from Cigna. What does this mean for me? What does this mean for my employees? Um, I, I'm learning about, you know, other programs that we could take advantage of, and then. Simultaneously because they, they do provide an outreach platform for our employees. They follow up with me like, Hey, I just want you to know I worked with employee X on their prescriptions. You know, here was, here was the confusion, and here's what you know, here's the resolution that we got for them. So I literally am working with them on a weekly basis, and that's never happened in my entire career with any broker.

Speaker 28:30

To me, that's the difference between a partnership, a true partnership, and just someone you hire or a vendor. Right?

Speaker 2 28:37

That's right.

Speaker 28:37

Yeah. That's powerful. And I think that's the important thing too, you, you mentioned proactivity, and I feel like I've come across a lot of different consultants in my career who I would say don't have that proactivity, and maybe that's why they're not winning new business or acquiring new clients. Um, I think it's, uh, a very important thing, especially now with all of the change and everything that goes into making the health plan what it is.

Speaker 2 29:02

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've certainly worked for companies where the twice a year broker meeting was probably fitting. Sure. Um, that would never work at this organization. Right. And you know, last year, 2024, going into 2025, we were bringing on two separate companies at one, at one time. Right. Like. I, I can't just meet with my broker twice a year when I got two sets of very different employees from very different plans and programs joining mine. Um, so, so yeah, they've been champions, um, of our organization. Um, and, and they think like I do now, you know, they, they think about my business the way that I think about my business, and they bring, they bring solutions and That's fantastic.

Speaker 29:47

That's great. You just had another light bulb moment. I think we can just end right here. That, that's awesome. I, I've heard amazing things and I've actually been fortunate enough on the vendor side, uh, of, of our space to work with Oswald, so that's, that's great to hear. I, I guess to round things out, Christine, if you would leave everybody or the audience with one thing, when it comes to what they're trying to do every day, which I'm assuming is to win new business, what would you say is the number one thing they should understand from your perspective, uh, of what you're trying to accomplish or what's most important? I.

Speaker 2 30:22

Oh gosh. Um,

Speaker 30:24

I know I went off script again.

Speaker 2 30:25

Yeah, that's okay. The num, I mean, there's, there's so many facets, but let, let's, let's think about, you know, the, the benefit, um, focus of right, this particular

Speaker 30:36

mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 30:36

Um, podcast. The thing is, we never know what we don't know, and so benefits is this part of our job that is year to year. And we have to make the best of it. Um, and sometimes we make choices that may or may not be great. Um, as much as I love our program, we did learn something about one of our, um, HSA plans and about the structure embedded deductible versus not.

Speaker 31:02

Yep.

Speaker 2 31:02

We, we didn't present that well, and so people started coming to us with these strange questions. Right? So, so you have to just go with those things and then you have to do your best to prepare for the next year. And I, I know. I had shared with you, like I'm already kind of nervous, like, you know this, we had the great savings coming out of PEO. We had this great story of this year. I don't, I don't know that much when I look at the political landscape and administrative landscape, I don't know that much is gonna change. So am I gonna be looking at 30% again? Next year, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm biting my nails about that. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 31:40

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 31:40

Right. Um, but whatever the challenge is, is that's out there for you. And, and obviously in this podcast case, we're talking a lot about benefits, but cost pressures retaining employees. Um, you, you really, I'll go back to the thing I said at the beginning. Who owns the decision? Um, at our company we say if there are multiple owners, there's no owner.

Speaker 32:02

Hmm.

Speaker 2 32:03

Right, because the way that things get done is to decide who owns the decision. And if, if you're a, a chief people officer or you're head of hr, you're head of benefits, you own the decision to whatever extent your company will allow, and, and then whatever pieces of that you own, you just, you just gotta take that, be accountable for it and come forward with the best possible solution. That's how we operate every day, um, at Cyber Max. And, and that's what we strive to do.

Speaker 32:31

I love it. That's, that's a great way, I think, to end everything and, uh, leave the, the viewers with a good nugget, uh, ownership. I think that's, that's the point, right?

Speaker 2 32:43

That's the point.

Speaker 32:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:44

Yeah.

Speaker 32:45

Awesome.

Speaker 2 32:46

I'm lucky enough, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of ownership. I know that doesn't happen at every organization.

Speaker 32:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:52

But where it doesn't. Um, you have to ask for it.

Speaker 32:55

You do. Yep. Absolutely. Can't, can't be told no if you don't ask.

Speaker 2 32:59

That's right.

Speaker 33:00

Yep. Or yes. Awesome. Well, I think that rounds it out. I've got another maybe 10 questions we'll save for another time.

Speaker 2 33:08

Got it.

Speaker 33:09

This has been,

Speaker 2 33:10

I'd love to come back.

Speaker 33:11

That'd be great. That'd be great. This has been enlightening. I think the conversation is something that our, our viewers need to hear. Uh, I love these conversations because everybody's got such a different perspective to share, so thank you for bringing and sharing yours today.

Speaker 2 33:23

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 33:25

Absolutely, Christine. All right, well, have a great weekend.

Speaker 2 33:28

Okay. You too.