Matt Young of Bravado on The Merch Economy

In this episode, Matt Young of Bravado gets real about why merchandise is the lifeblood of touring and how a t-shirt can matter more than a stream. 

 
• Why modern touring is all about tickets and t-shirts
• Merch creates an emotional connection point

• Merch is the last physical link in a digital music era
• What big-tour merch logistics really look like 

• Practical must-dos for a young band’s first merch drop
• What record merch sales at festivals signal about fan demand
• Unique merch ideas and the value of an iconic logo

Make sure to check out Bravado @BravadoUSA on Instagram, and their website, Bravado.com.

Transcript

Welcome And Big-Picture Premise

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Yes, yes, yes. Welcome back. You think you know the music industry, but you have no idea. That's why you tune in to Behind the Scene Available and All Podcast Networks everywhere, YouTube, and uh, you know, we've got some things coming in the works as well. I am guns, of course, from the gun show. We got Dickie Perrett, my my boss nodes, and we've also got Sully Sullivan here. What's up, fellas? How are we doing today?

SPEAKER_02 0:54

What are you doing weekdays? What are you are you uh touring? Who are you interviewing? I'm doing everything. What is it you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

What would you say you're the gun show? I'm an Enigma. You know what I mean? The gun show.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

But everybody knows you. You're you're talking to every single I mean every time I turn you on, you're talking to somebody else famous.

Guns On Interviews And Music Roots

Dickie Barrett On Classic Merch

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, yeah, I interview, you know, interviewing bands to uh athletes to covering live events to covering news trending. I've interviewed everybody from uh John Caliperi to Coach Kay for Derek Jeter. Yep, yep, been across ABC News, you know, doing it all. And uh ABC, Fox, everything. But of course, my heart, my passion's always been music. Right. And uh, you know, that's kind of how we kind of started behind the scene. And what's great about behind the scene for all the viewers and listeners out there is, you know, we touch base, you know, you got three different perspectives here. You got the legend with Dickie Barrett, you got the upcoming musician, but also business entrepreneur Sully, and then you got Guns, who lives and breathes this and has been doing this. I'll speak in the third person, like I'm the rock right there, you know, uh, who has lived and breathed this now for 25 years. I have not. However, I did do Stone Cold. I did Stone Cold Steve Austin, and uh, I did the macho man, Randy Savage, before he passed away. What's the biggest man and what's the Wait a minute, he's dead? R.I.P. Hold on to lap into a slim gym. Who's the biggest name and the smallest name? Uh smallest name would be somebody named Sullivan. Uh that's the kind of truth. Wow. That would be the smallest seven. We have a lot of fun here. But who's the biggest name? Uh biggest names has been everybody, Mirani Carey, uh Jonas Brothers. Stars. We did Clive Davis, Ed Sharon, uh, your Blink 182s, um, Taylor Swift, but that was back in the day before she was Taylor Swift. Um but yeah, but you know, we cover all choose Taylor Slow. Yeah, she was slow, not Swift. Oh man. But you know, what's great about this is we can we can cover all different things. We interviewed, you know, the biggest bands in the industry. We'll also talk to the people like Kevin Lyman, of course, from the Warp Tour. We'll talk live nation ticket prices and everything. But today I'm really excited because we're gonna be speaking with uh Matt Young, okay? He is a prominent figure across the merchandise guy. This is your artist merch go-to. Which is a huge revenue model. Which is a huge revenue model, bravado and more. Before we get to him, Dickie, I want to ask you this. Yes. What was your favorite piece of Boston's merch that you ever put out? Was it a shirt? Was it a design? Was it did you have something random one year?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Um, geez, like you know, plaid something or other. What did what do we put out there? Um baseball jerseys. I still have one. Nice Red Sox jerseys, Boston's Red Sox jerseys. Anything we could bastardize of Boston. Yeah, just roll with it. Sports teams and um I don't know. We we did uh Did you design it? I did a lot of the designing, yeah. A lot of what things looked like came for me. My friend, a longtime friend, designed the bulldog with the flat top and the horns. Who did the who did the font and all that stuff? Uh a guy, a guy named Jerry Mattis from Albany, New York. Kid, uh, kid, he's my age. An old man. But at the time when he designed it, he was a kid. Yeah. In the very early days, and kind of we just kind of leaned in that direction and never really headed any other way. And people liked it.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

When you did like hats and shirts, did you like say, okay, I want this color, this logo, this, that, the other? Or were you completely just separated? I was because I'm all in it. I want like this color, this v-neck, this fabric. And I'm thinking, am I out of my line?

Matt Young Joins From Bravado

SPEAKER_03 4:34

I was completely immersed in it. Stuff that came out that, you know, either came through my brain or I approved it. Or that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Well, though, the apparel game itself, and uh, as we welcome Matt Young here from Bravado, definitely uh welcome aboard, my friend. But also the apparel game has changed so much.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah, but I was gonna, real quick, was that a big part of your income? Did you care about merch? Um, I cared about merch, but I don't remember it being a big part of our income. There's a lot of money to be made with merch. Hello, Matt. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Matt, talk to us. What's up, buddy? How are you?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

You're on the Guns, Dickey and Sully. I'm very excited about being on the Guns, Dickey and Sully show today. I'm in uh Newark Airport, fellas.

Why Merch Is The Lifeblood

SPEAKER_00 5:13

There you go. Well, listen, how much has, you know, how much, how important is merchandise right now and the apparel game for artists? If you, whether you're you're a band, upcoming band or whether you're somebody like Justin Bieber who just set the uh Coachella uh, you know, record sales ever. Most merchandise sold ever was last weekend at Coachella for Bieber. Talk to us about just how important that revenue model is.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I think it's the lifeblood. And I think since uh Dickie, when you were torn, I saw you guys a bunch of times in the early 90s too. There was um merch is the way that uh artists make a living. Uh, I think the catchphrase is tickets and t-shirts these days. Um in the new in the new and modern music business. Obviously, that's a piece of it. I don't think it's all of it. It's easy to say. But what merch is now for me feels like it's just the last physical piece that you have to touch, to feel, um, to to to to to partake in the emotion that the artists generate, right? You guys are creating a melody, you guys are writing a hook, you guys are are coming up with lyrics, artists are coming up with lyrics that mean something to people. It's an emotional connection point, and all we're doing is is creating um you could say it sounds cheesy, but cotton bridges to that emotion.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Well, so I'll tell you, when we get off stage, Dickie and I walk to the merch booth, and there is this palpable need for people to gravitate towards something that they can touch. You're absolutely right. I mean, I I can tell you, as much fun as is on stage, yeah, I get as much out of it when you and I are sitting there watching people just crave to get a piece of whatever's going on that evening. And we're you know, third down or whatever.

The Logistics Behind Big Tours

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, you're you're going to you're going to church if you're going to a show. And there's an experience had, sorry, with the hand there, but you gotta feel that in a way um the next day and the day after and the week after. And that's by wearing the shirt, putting the hat on, uh, hanging the vinyl, listening to the vinyl. Um, who knows, Mia, if you were talking about Boston's uh and the Red Sox, the bobblehead on the shelf. That means something to you, right? Um there's a connection. There's a connection there, and and we're just we're just part of um you know that connection. How many years have you been doing it, Matt, in the business? I would say probably since right after my last Boston show, Dick. You know, uh probably twelve 25 years. Worked at uh small independent companies now current or work for the big guys now. Um, have seen every level of stadium, uh club, um field, as you remember back in the days. You know, we had an artist playing um Alabama's college football field this weekend to 70,000, 75,000 people. So it's come a long way. And I think I think there's something to the fact that it's the last physical element. Um, you know, we have a generation of kids that's grown up with digital music, yeah. Feeling and feeling it, touching it, um, and wearing it means something that it maybe is a little bit different than it was from 25 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

When you go from stadium to stadium or big band to big band, logistically, I don't think people understand how that actually works. Like bands aren't bringing their own boxes. This is a this is a third-party service. It doesn't just magically happen, also. Can you talk about that inside?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, logistically on the big tours, you're talking about semi-trucks full of merchandise. And usually they will be setting up a tent and outside will be setting up a tent and outside stands the day before, two days before, sometimes three days before the event, selling merchandise to folks who want to get it, put it back in the car, and then go in and enjoy themselves at the show. Um, at least at a at a at a stadium show, you're at least two semi-trucks full of merchandise on the do on the way in. And if you do do it right, very few on the way out.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah. And talk to us about, you know, you you you know, you did start from those local club shows, and now talk about some of the people that you have on your roster right now.

Must-Dos For A First Drop

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I mean, you you could go to the Burato website and kind of get a look, guys, if you wanted to, but we're doing uh all the biggest pop artists in the world, from the weekend and Ariana uh to the biggest heritage artists, um, but still sort of so, so important to culture, the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, things like that. Um, and then you have like, you know, the up-and-coming sort of 49 Winchesters coming out of Nashville, playing clubs still, but making sure that they feel like um the merch they get is part of the emotion that they're experiencing and makes them feel um, you know, at some point this is just showing the rest of the world what you care about. Hey, Matt. I'm wearing today. I'm wearing a uh social distortion hoodie. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

So if you were gonna tell a young band uh key takeaways for must-d's on their first t-shirt or hat or whatever, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I would tell them to be smart about it and make sure it feels like the show they're putting on. Make sure the art matches uh the theme, make sure the creative matches um the the style. You mentioned before the colors and the fit and the feel. It has to be part of uh what you're creating in that room, um, which is which is the emotion. Yeah, it's easy to say just put the logo on the t-shirt, have a guy down the street at the screen print shop print them. Um, but at the end of the day, it's it's more than that. Um, you're seeing kids today creating music careers online, whether that be one of the social networks, and selling merchandise directly through DM, uh, until they figure out the uh economies of uh Shopify, et cetera. But if you're gonna start, just start with authenticity, make it feel like it's part of the show.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Now, what do you think? You know, when you hear something that Bieber was able to set the Coachella merch record last week almost like by four times the previous one, what does that show? What does that show for I think the return of Justin Bieber? I think, you know, I'm not breaking new. Well I think I think there maybe might be more shows to come. I don't know that, but I would hope he would do more shows based on the success of these past two weekends. But what about just the fact that he sold out of all his merchandise in three years? Five million dollars. Like, what is that show from the uh the merchandise, but also what's that mean for Bieber, the merch game, as well as fans out there?

Bieber Coachella Sales And What It Means

SPEAKER_01 11:43

I think it underlines what I said before. Is it emotional connection points, right? It's the way, it's the way you participate in what that fan's saying. So my my gut is um it bodes well for everyone involved.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

We we had this idea when uh we went to Burbank Beyond. Nobody knew us. I said, let's get phone cell chargers with our name on it. At least they can see our name and their phones running out. Is there anything to that or is that too gimmicky? Because I don't think we sold any.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

I think it's a great idea, and I'm sure there were people with phones that were that just didn't know they could get them. Um uh you know, half the battle at those festivals is letting people know that you have the stuff and that it's there and that it's available and it's there for them, and it does speak to something related to uh what you're doing as a band in the show.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

What what are some you know, merchandise? I've seen bands make whoopie cushions. I've seen bands with, you know, uh, you know, even Sully does uh has like the the the uh the red solo cups for their song Raise Your Glass. So, you know, you have things that are promotional as well as those that, you know, are sold. What are some of the more unique artist things that you've been able to put out with bravado that you've come across?

Iconic Logos And Weird Merch Ideas

SPEAKER_01 12:55

I mean, I think if you think about working with an artist like the Rolling Stones and how lucky we are to work with them, it can literally be anything. That tongue can fit on anything. It doesn't even need to say the Rolling Stones anymore, right? Everyone knows what that tongue is. I've been doing this, like I said, 25 years. Every artist meeting I have, literally every artist meeting I have, uh, the band will say, we need our version of the tongue.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

What's our version of the tongue?

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Wow, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

And then that goes on anything, guns. You could put that on uh as wall art, you can put that on any kind of apparel, you can put that into uh video games, which you've seen, you can put it on toys, um you know, you can create Lego sets, you can uh the that bobblehead we mentioned before is low-hanging fruit, but certainly there's uh just about anything you can put in.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

If you if you had to rate hat, t-shirt, sweatshirt, what would the order be?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

For anyone. Yeah, any band, number one seller t-shirt. Number one seller t-shirt. Uh number two is gonna be probably the hoodie, and and and then the hat would be third in the in the in that order of of the three options you gave me. You could throw a long sleeve in there, you could throw um some sort of uh women's specific tea in there if it's the right audience. Like the rule of thumb for me, and this is a good one, is if the crowd is screaming louder than the singer, that's a merch crowd. Wow. Well, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

Yeah. Or or a very quiet singer. Or very quiet singer.

Best Sellers And The Merch Crowd Test

SPEAKER_00 14:28

What have you, you know, the last latest uh last couple years, twenty my pilots, for example, last year, uh with the with their with the album set the you know, so the most rock vinyl that we've seen in forever. What is Bravado, what's your thoughts on vinyl? Because once again, there is that physical element and of vinyl resurgence. Fans, because everything's on a smartphone right now, fans want to be able to touch and physically feel gratifying in some aspect, whether it is merchandise, but there's a unique aspect and almost like a cultist build to it when you talk about vinyl, because it's not just the hipsters anymore, uh, for better or worse. Talk to me about vinyl, what you've been able to see, um, and how much of a revenue and how important is that in a marketing plan for an artist?

Vinyl Resurgence And Tour Exclusives

SPEAKER_01 15:13

I think you could talk about the Rolling Stones launching their latest single this this last two weeks on vinyl only, uh, for Records Arday as the cockroaches. You could only get it on vinyl if you want to hear new Rolling Stones music. Um when it comes to the touring business, we think about it like merch. It's just another piece of of um piece of the inventory that we have to keep track of and make sure the artists and the fan connect by having the full stock available at every show. So um I don't know if that's the right example, but you know what I'm saying on vinyl. Vinyl's a vinyl's a key part of the merch campaign, and you can't download it. Um if we do it right and we're working on the bigger tours, we'll even make exclusive tour vinyl, right? So maybe an exclusive colorway you can only get on tour.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Uh and things like that. I've got an etiquette question. Do I wear my own t-shirt or not as an artist?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

There you go. Look at look at look at um you could look at last couple cycles with Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo. Not only did they help design it, but they wore it. Billy announced her tour. Billy announced her tour wearing her her t-shirt with the tour dates on the back, uh, which was all done on, believe it or not, sustainable recycled cotton, too. So there's another element of it as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Well, do you uh tell us a story or who would people, who would fans be most surprised that the artist is so involved in the you know, in their merch?

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Mick Jagger designed that tongue, right?

Should Artists Wear Their Own Merch

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I think he had some someone designed it for him. Right. Um, but he but he does care about his merch. He is involved in every merch decision uh to this day. Wow. And he's not a kid. He is not a kid, from what I understand.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Matt, can you help me turn the Boston's bulldog into the Rolling Stones tongue with that kind of visibility?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

You already got something there, dude. If people want to get it tattooed, it's a fucking killer logo. So you've got that one already. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

That's yeah. Um one more thing I want to ask you, Matt, just as we have fun here. Of course, you can check out Bravado, go to the website. I mean, the you know, the merch game is is critical, vital these days for the artists that are watching and also those that uh want to learn more about it as well. Definitely check out Bravado. What is one fashion fad that you're happy isn't around anymore? Is it like the fanny pack era or you know, like there's been a lot of questionable fancy.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

The Oasis bucket hat.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

The Oasis bucket hat. Like, what what is one thing that's you were like, what are we doing here as a society?

Why Merch Keeps Small Bands Touring

SPEAKER_01 17:56

It's almost you're asking me if I'm fashionably conscious. Um for me, for me, I think um the the fanny pack coming and going is okay with me, to be fair. Um maybe, maybe it's the battery packs, Philly. I don't know if that hits your arm yet. Yeah. Um but I like I said, literally at this point in the game, merch can be anything, and we're happy to explore with whatever artists want it want to try and make, um, as long as it connects them with their fan. If you think about our mantra is artists plus fans, artists and fans, and we see ourselves as the plus sign in that equation. Whatever it takes to connect to the emotion you guys create.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

How important, and I think this is vitally, uh, I really would like to know more about this because I think when fans, you know, you're seeing ticket prices increase out there, but of course, there's only so much, you know, limited income fans have. But for those bands that are still like in a van or perhaps a bandwagon, maybe they just got their first bus, how important is it for fans to go out and support them through merchandise sales? How vital is that as far as a touring band, especially in those early couple years?

Bravado Scale And Artist-First Mission

SPEAKER_01 19:05

I think uh, and if you're talking to any band these days, they would tell you they probably couldn't tour in today's day and age without merch. It's a vital part of the revenue stream uh to get to the next gig, especially looking at gas prices this summer going through the roof. You gotta have you gotta have someone participating in the merch ecosystem for them to be able to get to the next gig, for them to be able to get something to eat, and for them to uh to uh to make it to the next show.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Matt, are you at the airport because you're coming from Coachella right now?

SPEAKER_01 19:37

I did not come from Coachella. I am uh leaving Newark Airport today. Where's Bravado located? We have offices in New York, London, uh LA, Nashville, Berlin, Madrid, Tokyo, Sydney. It is uh the world's biggest music merch company, and it is a global entity that services several hundred artists around the world. Where are you going right now? Uh today we're going to Milwaukee.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Really? All those great places, and you're going to Milwaukee.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I know, I know. Tell me about it. Tell me about it. Sorry, Milwaukee. I will be in San Diego uh next month, though. We'll get in the studio here. I would love that. My daughter's graduating from San Diego State, but I can come and spend some. No last text. We could really dig in if you want to. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

No, that'd be absolutely phenomenal. And uh yeah, no, thanks so much because sometimes fans don't realize how important merchandise is, especially for those growing bands. But also, it's just a perfect way for an artist to be able to express themselves and beyond. And oh, yeah, it's a huge revenue model as well. So uh listen, anything else you want to say about Bovado? What made you what makes you stand out from uh everybody else, the competitors out there?

Final Jokes And Wrap

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I think you can find someone more passionate about this business. The staff we have pairs. They go to bed at night thinking about their artists, they wake up in the morning uh obsessing about how to help them make more money and and be able to do this. If if we can generate enough revenue for an artist to not have to work at a part-time job and to spend more time writing songs, to spend more time via those songs connecting emotionally, then we've done our job.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

What's your favorite Boss Stone song?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Oh The cover of Impression by Sullivan. Yeah. I just think it was it was the hype man. What was his name? The hype man was always the best.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Talking about Ben Carr.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Thank you so much for talking to me.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

You're the best. Appreciate it. Bravano, make sure to check out Bravano across all social media, and of course, Bravano.com. We appreciate you. Have a safe flight, my man. Thanks for joining behind the scene. Rock and roll, rock and roll. Appreciate that. Let's raise the clean behind the scene. Let's find the tragedy.